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money32
01-24-2007, 01:48 AM
Could somebody give me a run down of how the OL looks right now?

Is Spencer going to be ready for season?

How did Winston perform this year?

Do we need another starter or just more depth?

Carr Bombed
01-24-2007, 02:01 AM
Could somebody give me a run down of how the OL looks right now?

Is Spencer going to be ready for season?

How did Winston perform this year?

Do we need another starter or just more depth?

This ones easy..........both

Scooter
01-24-2007, 02:10 AM
Could somebody give me a run down of how the OL looks right now?

Is Spencer going to be ready for season?

How did Winston perform this year?

Do we need another starter or just more depth?

O-line's still a work in progress. flanagan looked like he's lost his legs, pitts was consistant, and weary impressed some folks. weigert cant survive half a season and mckinney looks good for a couple games (same as always, lucky for him his only games were at the end of the season). salaam needs to be gone.

spencer's still a question, we're waiting to see if the cartilage(?) starts growing ... should only be a couple weeks before we're more certain.

winston was shaky but showed real good progress. i dont think he's starter material yet, but he might be with a full offseason to work on a few things.

both. center's up in the air, and i'd like a starting right tackle. if spencer doesnt come back we need a left tackle, too. we also need depth all over.

Texans Horror
01-24-2007, 08:23 AM
Could somebody give me a run down of how the OL looks right now?

Is Spencer going to be ready for season?

How did Winston perform this year?

Do we need another starter or just more depth?

O-line's still a work in progress. flanagan looked like he's lost his legs, pitts was consistant, and weary impressed some folks. weigert cant survive half a season and mckinney looks good for a couple games (same as always, lucky for him his only games were at the end of the season). salaam needs to be gone.

spencer's still a question, we're waiting to see if the cartilage(?) starts growing ... should only be a couple weeks before we're more certain.

winston was shaky but showed real good progress. i dont think he's starter material yet, but he might be with a full offseason to work on a few things.

both. center's up in the air, and i'd like a starting right tackle. if spencer doesnt come back we need a left tackle, too. we also need depth all over.

As the season ended, the line looked pretty abysmal. Salaam had a hard time keeping DEs from Carr, and so did Winston. The middle of the line probably looked the best it had with McKinney playing center, and the guards were erratic. They'd play well at one point, and then not so well the next.

I don't think many linemen will be cut. I suspect a lot of these guys will be kept as reserves/depth, so hopefully that answers your question. That includes Salaam, too, unfortunately.

Everything I have heard is that Spencer is doing well in his recovery and will be back. Since Weigert is clearly not the starting right tackle, that makes Winston the starter. Still too early for him to be starting, IMO, but despite his struggles, he showed improvement last season, and he is the best player available.

Although the guards seemed erratic, they are not the worst part of the line, so I think Pitts and Weary are set at guard for next year.

Flanagan and Hodgdon were not the answer last season. In fact, I believe Hodgdon will be gone before the season starts, and I suspect a Center will be drafted this year.

yourfavoritetexan42
01-24-2007, 09:01 AM
Say spencer comes back 100% healthy, then he is our left tackle. Pitts is our best linemen as we speak at left guard. McKinney should start at center while we draft a young one in to be groomed and to take over when ready. Right Guard I think Weary has earned his spot, he just needs to stay healthy and improve a bit over the offseason and that could be his job to keep. I think putting Winston at right tackle is good, he just needs a good off season and I think he can be a good right tackle.

Depth however...there is none. Salaam Wiegert and Flanagan are just completely done. Hodgon doesn't belong in the nfl. Therefor if we face any injury, we are screwed, we need to build depth through the draft and free agency.

wolfscar
01-24-2007, 09:13 AM
As the season ended, the line looked pretty abysmal. Salaam had a hard time keeping DEs from Carr, and so did Winston. The middle of the line probably looked the best it had with McKinney playing center, and the guards were erratic. They'd play well at one point, and then not so well the next.

I don't think many linemen will be cut. I suspect a lot of these guys will be kept as reserves/depth, so hopefully that answers your question. That includes Salaam, too, unfortunately.

Everything I have heard is that Spencer is doing well in his recovery and will be back. Since Weigert is clearly not the starting right tackle, that makes Winston the starter. Still too early for him to be starting, IMO, but despite his struggles, he showed improvement last season, and he is the best player available.

Although the guards seemed erratic, they are not the worst part of the line, so I think Pitts and Weary are set at guard for next year.

Flanagan and Hodgdon were not the answer last season. In fact, I believe Hodgdon will be gone before the season starts, and I suspect a Center will be drafted this year.

I suspect you're right on pretty much all that. I'd like to see Wiegert, Flanagan, Hodgdon gone and Salaam was pretty poor, but he's tough and might make a serviceable backup if the line around him are working smoother.

I agree that Pitts was good and McKinney was our best Center, although we desperately need someone else to fit that position. I think we'll draft rd 3 or 4 for someone here. There's no standout stars, but there's quite a few promising prospects going quite deep down the list of possibilities. I suspect they'll back McKinney up at first, but hopefuly we'll have someone challenging for the starting spot by the end of next season.

I'd like to see Winston and Spencer start at each tackle for us - not because I think they're ready for that, but because they have talent, they have many years ahead of them and we already have them on the roster. The options at T in FA either don't fit that well with our ZBS, will cost a fortune or would just be yet another stop-gap barely adequate solution to the problem. And in the draft I think we have more pressing issues(JMO). I'd rather see us fast track the development of these two guys than try to put another dubious band-aid over the question.

Pitts is good, Weary is a good backup / relief player and I think we could really do with a starting G to line up on the other side. Someone like Kris Dielman would be ideal.

So that's my take on the O-Line - with Dielman and a couple of depth guys at OT from Free Agency, a future Center and Guard from the Draft, I think our O-Line has the potential to meld into something other than a laughing stock this year. And - equally important - into something solid to be built upon.

TexanFanInCC
01-24-2007, 09:22 AM
O-line's still a work in progress. flanagan looked like he's lost his legs, pitts was consistant, and weary impressed some folks. weigert cant survive half a season and mckinney looks good for a couple games (same as always, lucky for him his only games were at the end of the season). salaam needs to be gone.

spencer's still a question, we're waiting to see if the cartilage(?) starts growing ... should only be a couple weeks before we're more certain.

winston was shaky but showed real good progress. i dont think he's starter material yet, but he might be with a full offseason to work on a few things.

both. center's up in the air, and i'd like a starting right tackle. if spencer doesnt come back we need a left tackle, too. we also need depth all over.

Now if you say gone, does that mean that you think we need to cut salaam? I doubt it. If Spencer does return and is able to stay healthy and strong, then salaam will still be a 2nd stringer mainly bc of his experience with the zone blocking. i thought for the most part he was serviceable enough to keep. theres alot of people disappointed with chester pitts (mainly sports radio 610 guys) and i dont really know how to critique him. i never really saw breakdowns at the LG spot. hopefully by next season, drew hogdon will start at center, pending if he can snap out of the gun. i think our line will be pretty good for next season. im hearing things about spencer at RT with winston at RG. the only open slot imaginable would be the LT spot and i think they will address it in a later round and hope to find another spencer type (unlikely this season)

nunusguy
01-24-2007, 09:46 AM
Ideally we'd have another Draft like last year for the OLine, that is 2 OLineman on the first day. However we don't have an extra 3rd rounder,
and with so many other needs, unless we come up with one between now and April we probably need to look to FA to secure another OLineman, especially that elusive LT position.

gtexan02
01-24-2007, 12:47 PM
I have a serious problem with anyone dogging Salaam on this message board. He gets SO much crap for his play this season, but NO respect for the good things. Let me remind all of you of a few things:

#1) Salaam was injured almost the entire year, and played through the injuries every single game.

#2) Salaam is old and has been moved around a lot. He's not a starting caliber LT at this point, nor was he ever supposed to be. He was a backup that was asked to fill in the ENTIRE season pretty much

#3) He was given the toughest job on the entire OL and I frankly think he did a pretty great job at it.

I for one hope he is back next year as a backup again. With the number of injuries we had, having an experienced guy to fill in is always a benefit. And he is as tough as they come.

Texans Horror
01-24-2007, 01:23 PM
I have a serious problem with anyone dogging Salaam on this message board. He gets SO much crap for his play this season, but NO respect for the good things. Let me remind all of you of a few things:

#1) Salaam was injured almost the entire year, and played through the injuries every single game.

#2) Salaam is old and has been moved around a lot. He's not a starting caliber LT at this point, nor was he ever supposed to be. He was a backup that was asked to fill in the ENTIRE season pretty much

#3) He was given the toughest job on the entire OL and I frankly think he did a pretty great job at it.

I for one hope he is back next year as a backup again. With the number of injuries we had, having an experienced guy to fill in is always a benefit. And he is as tough as they come.

You have to give credit to a guy who is willing to play through the pain. The Texans Front Office screwed up because they cut too many linemen, so when they needed a back-up LT, they had no options. Play the injured guy. For an injured back-up LT, he did his best.

But I think it was obvious from his first game that he didn't belong there. He gave up lots of sacks. Fortunately for him, Weigert gave up sacks, too - to DEs one or two steps faster than the guy Salaam was blocking. I remember in particular David Carr during the first Titans game getting sandwiched between defenders coming off the right and left tackles. It was hard to watch. I hope it doesn't happen again.

He had a hard time in Jacksonville, and he had a hard time in Houston. I think more often than not he failed to hold his position throughout an entire game. I agree he is not starting material, but my problem is that he never proved capable of holding the position. If an offensive lineman can't protect the quarterback, even if he is a backup, should he be kept? IMO, no.

Likely in Kubes' mind, yes, because he can fit into multiple positions.

gtexan02
01-24-2007, 01:55 PM
I agree he is not starting material, but my problem is that he never proved capable of holding the position. If an offensive lineman can't protect the quarterback, even if he is a backup, should he be kept? IMO, no.

Likely in Kubes' mind, yes, because he can fit into multiple positions.

If this is your criteria, you'd have to have an entire OL of starters + backups that are probowl caliber. The reason backups are backups are because they can play the position decently well, but not consistently as well as others. Salaam is a vet with an iron will. He gave up way too many sacks and penalties to be a permanent fixture, but his role playing as a backup should not be ignored.

Texans Horror
01-24-2007, 03:24 PM
If this is your criteria, you'd have to have an entire OL of starters + backups that are probowl caliber. The reason backups are backups are because they can play the position decently well, but not consistently as well as others. Salaam is a vet with an iron will. He gave up way too many sacks and penalties to be a permanent fixture, but his role playing as a backup should not be ignored.

Disregarding your ab absurdo argument...

There is a whole slew of reasons why a player is designated a back-up. Consistency is only one of them.

To me it comes down to the question of "if Spencer is injured next year, do you feel comfortable putting Salaam in as a replacement?" If the answer is no, he should not be on the team. (JMO, the answer is a resounding "no.")

Scooter
01-24-2007, 03:31 PM
Now if you say gone, does that mean that you think we need to cut salaam? I doubt it. If Spencer does return and is able to stay healthy and strong, then salaam will still be a 2nd stringer mainly bc of his experience with the zone blocking. i thought for the most part he was serviceable enough to keep.

in my scenario, we need to find a starting right tackle and have winston backing up both tackle positions, or atleast draft a backup while winston starts RT. i really dont care if salaam has iron guts, because he has iron feet and simply wasnt good. i'm not trying to sound harsh, but we have to do better than that if we're going to be taken seriously. he was a turnstyle in the passing game and inconsistant in the running game. if we release salaam i can almost guarantee he'll not be getting another job unless a team loses a left tackle or two, so if we get desperate he'll still be around.

real
01-24-2007, 03:38 PM
My guess is that internally the team thinks higher of what our offensive line did this season than some may suspect...

t_flare
01-24-2007, 03:49 PM
I say the line is the #1 target for the Texans this year... more important than LB's Dline and secondary. They run blocking has bee terrible at the beginning and average at the end. The passing game has been limited because of the poor protection. For this team to be better on offense I truely believe that the Oline is more a concern than QB.

real
01-24-2007, 04:00 PM
I say the line is the #1 target for the Texans this year... more important than LB's Dline and secondary. They run blocking has bee terrible at the beginning and average at the end. The passing game has been limited because of the poor protection. For this team to be better on offense I truely believe that the Oline is more a concern than QB.

I think teams with bad qb's should find a better one...

Meloy
01-24-2007, 04:12 PM
Say spencer comes back 100% healthy, then he is our left tackle. Pitts is our best linemen as we speak at left guard. McKinney should start at center while we draft a young one in to be groomed and to take over when ready. Right Guard I think Weary has earned his spot, he just needs to stay healthy and improve a bit over the offseason and that could be his job to keep. I think putting Winston at right tackle is good, he just needs a good off season and I think he can be a good right tackle.

Depth however...there is none. Salaam Wiegert and Flanagan are just completely done. Hodgon doesn't belong in the nfl. Therefor if we face any injury, we are screwed, we need to build depth through the draft and free agency.I pretty much agree. We should get a tackle for depth by round 4. Might get a non left tackle lineman in free agency but do not expect a head turner just someone steady with a healthy body. I hope Weary & Winston can hold starter roles and see McKinney @ center. imo no one drafted in first 6 rounds for center. Weigert might make roster as a back up.

Ole Miss Texan
01-24-2007, 04:46 PM
In a back up I would like to see somone decent. No he doesn't need to be starter material for 16 games. If you had your whole o-line that could starte...you'd have a superb offense. I would expect him to come in for a game or two...maybe three...or even a few plays. but to expect him to play 13 games in a row is a stretch. i wasn't pleased with Salaam as our starter. but like most have said he wasn't meant to be. he would be fine to come in for a game or a half or so while spencer rest..etc. I would be fine keeping him as a back up.

Rick Smith has said that this is a deep o-line draft. Not necessarily 1st round material but a lot throughout the rounds. I would expect them to pick up some more guys for our o-line be them starters or backups i dont know. we do know they would at least compete for the starting job and probably get it in a year or two if not next season. I see them continuing to draft the guys that fit our system this draft and so forth, not necessarily saying spencers is our guy we'll forget about LT.

Insideop
01-24-2007, 09:31 PM
I have a serious problem with anyone dogging Salaam on this message board. He gets SO much crap for his play this season, but NO respect for the good things. Let me remind all of you of a few things:

#1) Salaam was injured almost the entire year, and played through the injuries every single game.

#2) Salaam is old and has been moved around a lot. He's not a starting caliber LT at this point, nor was he ever supposed to be. He was a backup that was asked to fill in the ENTIRE season pretty much

#3) He was given the toughest job on the entire OL and I frankly think he did a pretty great job at it.

I for one hope he is back next year as a backup again. With the number of injuries we had, having an experienced guy to fill in is always a benefit. And he is as tough as they come.

I agree with all of this! :ok: Good post!

Erratic Assassin
01-24-2007, 09:52 PM
Is Spencer going to be ready for season?

I expect to see Tony Boselli, Domanick Davis/ Williams, and Bennie Joppru on the field before I'll ever see Spencer again.

This team is cursed.

keyfro
01-24-2007, 11:21 PM
IMO there is no reason to keep weigert...the guy cannot stay healthy for even half the year now...flanagan is a guy who we brought in to add some toughness to this o-line and his injury problems came up...you add the injury to spencer

hodgdon obviously is not the center of the future for this team but i do not believe he needs to be released...i want to see him with another year under his belt with this o-line coach

salaam i thought did a great job for us filling in...remember this is a guy who they brought in mainly to be a mentor to spencer...the fact that we got that much production out of him is great...i would bring him back but with the idea that he probably isn't going to make the final roster unless another injury occurs...i also bring him back because we are going to have another young OT on this team and he'll need some mentoring

mckinney makes me scratch my head...he played well in the two games he started at center...he did ok in the games where he played guard...he signed that contract extention before last season started so you really can't release him...i would probably make him and weary compete at both center and guard with weary probably getting the edge at guard

as for weary and pitts they have to be the only constants we had on this o-line...i like both of them as starters...we do need to bring in some better depth to push them and make them constantly work to keep their jobs...and if pitts or weary were to get injuried the middle of this line would be screwed...so we need better depth

i personaly liked what i saw from winston and believe with a full training camp as the starter at RT he can have a successful season at RT...bedell can push him but i would definetly like to see more competition at both tackle positions

but in the end this is the same old freakin story this team needs more younger, better, and more talented o-lineman...we drafted two guys high last year we probably need to draft atleast one high this year (cough levi brown cough) (cough trade down cough)

Crazyhorse
01-25-2007, 05:12 PM
The first thing that would help is to have Spencer back and ready to go, but we may not know that till February at the earliest.
Second, Winston finished the year strong, and looks to get only stronger. Now two years removed from his injury he was moving like his old self by the end of the season. Keep in mind of the 40 odd sacks that the Texans gave up only 3 or 4 can be attributed to Winston and most of those came in the Oakland game. The run game behind Eric was much stronger as the season went on and with the return of DW and maybe getting a back in the draft or Free agency it will continue to improve.
Do we need more depth, of course we do and hopefully we will have a draft as good or better than last year.
We are alot closer to being a playoff team than most give us credit for. I for one could see us in the playoffs next season if we can stay healthy.

threetoedpete
01-26-2007, 10:20 AM
I've been wattching this thread. Lot of good opinions on it. The question I pose with the positives on the o-line....do you make a deal with Washington if by some miracle Joe Thomas falls out of the top three ? They have zero day one picks after the four. Do you go with all day, the DE/DT, or one of the safties at the eight. Or do you hold service and say Levi Brown is not the best the last three years...but he is the best option this year, he locks down our line this year, and pull the trigger on him at the eight ? Do you trade down and gamble that Levi Brown, by exposing him, is shakey enough to take that risk. You can fill a need even if you miss him ? The last question is a second teired guy good enough that you would except the sacks and go with him. Wait for the sixth year and address this in the '08 Draft. Knowing that by picking him at the forty...you're giving up a very good Wil/Sam linebacker or corner/Free safty prospect ? I am going under the assumption that Spencer will not be available to this team befor mid season, if at all. That scenario seems to fit this franchise better than cross your fingers and hope. We've had five years of nothing but bad news with our o-line. I don't believe Kubiak will except maybe after what he endured with Dominick Willams last year. One practice and done. Do you believe he will except that scenario again ? He doesn't want to think Specener will be ready to go. He'll want to see Spencer ready to go...befor the draft. JMHO.

Offensive tackles — Class features some premier top talent but, like guard, is not deep. Wisconsin’s Joe Thomas is a top-line left tackle, but Penn State’s Levi Brown, once his technique improves, .....

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/default.htm

Insideop
01-26-2007, 12:47 PM
I've been wattching this thread. Lot of good opinions on it. The question I pose with the positives on the o-line....do you make a deal with Washington if by some miracle Joe Thomas falls out of the top three ? They have zero day one picks after the four. Do you go with all day, the DE/DT, or one of the safties at the eight. Or do you hold service and say Levi Brown is not the best the last three years...but he is the best option this year, he locks down our line this year, and pull the trigger on him at the eight ? Do you trade down and gamble that Levi Brown, by exposing him, is shakey enough to take that risk. You can fill a need even if you miss him ? The last question is a second teired guy good enough that you would except the sacks and go with him. Wait for the sixth year and address this in the '08 Draft. Knowing that by picking him at the forty...you're giving up a very good Wil/Sam linebacker or corner/Free safty prospect ? I am going under the assumption that Spencer will not be available to this team befor mid season, if at all. That scenario seems to fit this franchise better than cross your fingers and hope. We've had five years of nothing but bad news with our o-line. I don't believe Kubiak will except maybe after what he endured with Dominick Willams last year. One practice and done. Do you believe he will except that scenario again ? He doesn't want to think Specener will be ready to go. He'll want to see Spencer ready to go...befor the draft. JMHO.



http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/default.htm


Pete, I wasn't that "high" on Brown back when all the draft talk started to heat up and some of the names of O-linemen were being thrown around. I thought he would be too big and slow to fit what the Texans are looking for in the ZB scheme. But lately some of the things I've been reading about him might suggest he would be worth looking at, but only if we trade down. I
don't think he would be a good value at #8. A lot of his draft value will depend on how he does at the combine, but as of now, I think he will probably go in the mid to late 1st round.

The couple of photos I've seen of Brown he kinda reminds me of Spencer with a powerful thick upper body. I just haven't heard anything about his quickness and if he can handle the LT spot on the NFL level.

As for trading up to get Thomas, I think we have way too many holes to fill to be giving up draft picks to move up. I think the best case scenario is for the Texans is to trade down and get either Brown, Okoye, Landry or Nelson, and pick up 1 or 2 extra picks depending on how far they go back. If they get Brown in the 1st then they can start looking for a DB or LB in the 2nd. If they get Okoye, Landry or Nelson in the 1st then maybe they can pick up Staley or Ugoh in the 2nd.

Either way it should be interesting to see what they do and to see how the offseason unfolds. Should be fun. One thing I hope the Texans don't do is try to get a LT in FA and have to overpay him. There aren't any good LT's out there in FA IMO, and if there were, the team that has them would do everything it can to resign them and not let them go. JMHO!

Texans Horror
01-26-2007, 02:52 PM
As for trading up to get Thomas, I think we have way too many holes to fill to be giving up draft picks to move up.

One thing I hope the Texans don't do is try to get a LT in FA and have to overpay him. There aren't any good LT's out there in FA IMO, and if there were, the team that has them would do everything it can to resign them and not let them go. JMHO!

The team is already suffering from bloated line contracts that never panned out. I hope they don't go that route again. I expect they won't.

Fortunately/unfortunately for the Texans, there are so many holes to fill that there is no lacking at the #8 position. RB/Safety/Cornerback/DE/DT - the Texans could pick the top player in any of these positions and it will be a huge bonus for the team, so I would accept almost anyone they take.

I am not sure I would put an exception on trading up for the LT. I don't see the move because the Texans have Spencer, who is recovering well. But having Joe Thomas on the line can only improve line talent.

I don't expect the Texans to trade up though. They have too many holes to fill. Giving up a draft spot will harm the team. JMHO.

SamuraiSword
01-26-2007, 03:30 PM
Could somebody give me a run down of how the OL looks right now?
Is Spencer going to be ready for season?

How did Winston perform this year?

Do we need another starter or just more depth?



They get an F for......


FANTASTIC

:marionaner:

during the second half.......

edo783
01-26-2007, 06:33 PM
They get an F for......


FANTASTIC

:marionaner:

during the second half.......

I assume that is some extreme sarcasim? They were horrid all year and only seemed better when the game was adjusted to protect them.