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View Full Version : Carr to the Vikings for a 3rd???


the wonger need food
01-23-2007, 01:40 PM
If the Vikings don't end up with free-agent quarterback Jeff Garcia of the Eagles, David Carr of the Houston Texans might be available for a third-round draft pick. Garcia would cost Minnesota nearly $4 million for one year.


http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/16522412.htm


Now that would be a steal!!!

Porky
01-23-2007, 01:42 PM
Pull the trigger before they change thier mind. They must not have watched any film yet, otherwise, they would have to be :drunk: to make that trade.

MightyTExan
01-23-2007, 01:46 PM
Make it happen.

amazingandre
01-23-2007, 01:48 PM
that would be great wouldnt that put us back to back in the 3rd with picks 7 and 8?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-23-2007, 01:49 PM
Get it done now.

TexansFanatic
01-23-2007, 01:50 PM
Who is this CHARLEY WALTERS guy? He is just making stuff up? I wish he wouldn't tease me like that if he is....

Bert
01-23-2007, 01:51 PM
Do it!!!!!

Mr. White
01-23-2007, 01:54 PM
I don't see it happening. Warren Moon got traded to Minnesota for a 3rd rounder.

Hookem Horns
01-23-2007, 01:57 PM
I don't see it happening. Warren Moon got traded to Minnesota for a 3rd rounder.

Who knows. Everyone outside of Houston still assumes Carr has an upside. The Texans need to take advantage of that false assumption. Getting anything for Carr would be a bonus.

jerek
01-23-2007, 02:03 PM
I wonder what it's like to spend one's days desperately combing the internet for David Carr trade rumors?

TexansFanatic
01-23-2007, 02:03 PM
I don't see it happening. Warren Moon got traded to Minnesota for a 3rd rounder.

Moon was 52 years old when that happened. Carr is still quite young for a QB and some still think he's not been given a fair shot (this board is a testament to that).

yourfavoritetexan42
01-23-2007, 02:07 PM
I feel as if giving up our only quarterback for a third round pick would be flushing our 2007 season down the toilet to be another "rebuilding season". Then when we draft that rookie qb next year, we have the next 3 years to develop. So I hope everyone is patient.

Malloy
01-23-2007, 02:12 PM
Dump Carr on the Vikings, go after Garcia ourselves :)

amazingandre
01-23-2007, 02:14 PM
i wuoldnt mind garcia... and then draft a qb to mold and he can learn from garcia thatd be nice..... :stirpot:

The Dream
01-23-2007, 02:21 PM
do it....do it....

Hookem Horns
01-23-2007, 02:22 PM
I feel as if giving up our only quarterback for a third round pick would be flushing our 2007 season down the toilet to be another "rebuilding season". Then when we draft that rookie qb next year, we have the next 3 years to develop. So I hope everyone is patient.

Sticking with Carr would be flushing the 2007 season down the toilet and would make it another "pre-rebuilding season".

Honoring Earl 34
01-23-2007, 02:30 PM
Sticking with Carr would be flushing the 2007 season down the toilet and would make it another "pre-rebuilding season".

I caught it .:ok:

dirty steve
01-23-2007, 02:38 PM
I wonder what it's like to spend one's days desperately combing the internet for David Carr trade rumors?
they got sick of stoking those "Carr to Oakland for Moss, Carr to Cleveland," fires. if carr is moved, i couldnt imagine it would be for more than a 4th at the best.

cbnjwill
01-23-2007, 03:28 PM
get that deal done now!!!!!!!!!!! im amazed by people who say david carr wasnt given a shot here in houston that to me is a joke.. carr has been handed the startinhg job for 5 complete seasons, there has never been a situation in the league where a qb could be so bad for so long and still keep his job. if carr was on any other team in the league his time would have been up before now. carr has been given way too many chances here in houston and its really put this franchise in a bad spot. this past season we had a perferct opportunity with the first pick to bring in a qb, and what do we do give carr another shot. now a yr. later we are searching for a deal for carr, get this thing done and let this backup qb move on

srstex
01-23-2007, 03:51 PM
I watched Garcia very little, but what I did see was a QB come into a winning season on a winning team and winning. Then in the playoffs they should have been bounced by the Boys and were by the Aint's, oops sorry, Saints, he had happier feet then Fred Twinkle Toes Flintstone, please look at what we have, Sage and Van Pelt, both can MANAGE a game and the system should do the rest. Draft some one to watch and learn before feeding them to the rest of the league. Give the running game a chance at stability, the same guys, same line, same play calling, consistency would be nice. If no-one else was watching Manning,McNair,Brady all played pretty bad through out the playoffs, it was the defense and the running games that came through. Manning threw 3 picks and won ! if Carr did that what would this board say. Look at Grossman, would you want HIM, he is going to the Super Bowl. No QB coming into Kubiaks system can make a huge difference because the QB has a specific job, "Do as I say, nothing more, nothing less". That is why we need a manager, not a game changer. When this system matures, everyone will be on the same page at the same time, and the team will be good.

Texanfan4ever
01-23-2007, 03:51 PM
get that deal done now!!!!!!!!!!! im amazed by people who say david carr wasnt given a shot here in houston that to me is a joke.. carr has been handed the startinhg job for 5 complete seasons, there has never been a situation in the league where a qb could be so bad for so long and still keep his job. if carr was on any other team in the league his time would have been up before now. carr has been given way too many chances here in houston and its really put this franchise in a bad spot. this past season we had a perferct opportunity with the first pick to bring in a qb, and what do we do give carr another shot. now a yr. later we are searching for a deal for carr, get this thing done and let this backup qb move on

Yep, it's all Carr's fault.:gun:

Lucky
01-23-2007, 04:10 PM
If the Vikings don't end up with free-agent quarterback Jeff Garcia of the Eagles, David Carr of the Houston Texans might be available for a third-round draft pick. Garcia would cost Minnesota nearly $4 million for one year.
1st, Garcia is an unrestricted free agent. No one knows how much he will cost next year, or what type of contract he's looking for.

2nd, if a team trades for David Carr and doesn't renegotiate his contract, he'll cost $5.25 million for '07.

But let's say Garcia could be had for $4 mil next year. On the one hand, the Vikes could sign Garcia without losing a draft pick. On the other, the Vikes could trade a 3rd round pick for Carr...and pay an extra $1.25 million. Who do you think they would choose?

Glad to see Houston isn't the only town with poor NFL reporters.

Toro
01-23-2007, 04:21 PM
Hey Dave.. Need a lift to Bush International Airport?

NEROtheZERO
01-23-2007, 04:23 PM
1st, Garcia is an unrestricted free agent. No one knows how much he will cost next year, or what type of contract he's looking for.

2nd, if a team trades for David Carr, and doesn't renegotiate his contract, he'll cost $5.25 million for '07.

But let's say Garcia could be had for $4 mil next year. On the one hand, the Vikes could sign Garcia without losing a draft pick. On the other, the Vikes could trade a 3rd round pick for Carr...and pay an extra $1.25 million. Who do you think they would choose?

Glad to see Houston isn't the only town with poor NFL reporters.

There is a considerable difference in paying $4M for a 37 year old QB versus $5.25M for a 28 year old former first round pick with percieved upside, especially for a team coming off the failed Brad Johnson experiment.

Maybe I am taking this as plausible because I want it to happen but a lot stranger things have happened. I think it is especially important to remember that David Carr isn't viewed as an imminent failure by everyone.

swtbound07
01-23-2007, 04:26 PM
I feel the need to repeat myself. Carr is going nowhere. We had these hopes last offseason. I doubt very seriously we even bring in another qb this offseason.

Sportsfan
01-23-2007, 04:26 PM
Dear Rick Smith,

Please execute this deal now!

Regards,

Texans fans

NEROtheZERO
01-23-2007, 04:29 PM
I feel the need to repeat myself. Carr is going nowhere. We had these hopes last offseason. I doubt very seriously we even bring in another qb this offseason.

I know you claim to have some inside info but if the Texans get a 3rd rounder for Carr and could get Plummer for ~$4M I find it hard to believe, regardless of their current position on the issue, that David Carr will be donning Steel Blue in 2007.

It is never a good idea to speak in absolutes.

2BCF
01-23-2007, 04:30 PM
I feel as if giving up our only quarterback for a third round pick would be flushing our 2007 season down the toilet to be another "rebuilding season". Then when we draft that rookie qb next year, we have the next 3 years to develop. So I hope everyone is patient.

:crazy:

swtbound07
01-23-2007, 04:31 PM
I know you claim to have some inside info but if the Texans get a 3rd rounder for Carr and could get Plummer for ~$4M I find it hard to believe, regardless of their current position on the issue, that David Carr will be donning Steel Blue in 2007.

It is never a good idea to speak in absolutes.


Alls I knows is what i hear, and what i hears is that Bobby Mcnair ain't letting carr leave, regardless of anything else on the table. Im not speaking in absolutes, just saying as of right now there is nothing serious in the pipes, and if there was I would have been made aware of it. Believe me, nobody hates Carr more than I.

El Amigo Invisible
01-23-2007, 04:31 PM
Dear Rick Smith,

Bring back Dave Ragone!

Steve Mckinney and Chester Pitts

Blu
01-23-2007, 04:31 PM
The $$ doesn't add up, but the age thing might be the deal maker.

? would you take Onterrio Smith (the Wizzinator ) instead of a 3rd rounder?
Not saying the Vikes want to ship him or anything.

HomeBred_Texan
01-23-2007, 04:35 PM
Sticking with Carr would be flushing the 2007 season down the toilet and would make it another "pre-rebuilding season".

I disagree with that completely. If he is that bad, then we shouldn't have a problem grabbing 1 of the 3 premier QB's coming out in the 2008 draft. They are much better than anyone we could get now... Then we would be on our way to a bright future...

real
01-23-2007, 04:41 PM
Dear Texan Fans,


Give it up, it ain't happening !



Signed,
Hope

texans83
01-23-2007, 04:47 PM
They arent going to trade Carr, just let it go. They will keep him and let him compete next year, if he starts then he is the better one. If he chokes then put in Sage

The Dream
01-23-2007, 04:55 PM
Alls I knows is what i hear, and what i hears is that Bobby Mcnair ain't letting carr leave, regardless of anything else on the table. Im not speaking in absolutes, just saying as of right now there is nothing serious in the pipes, and if there was I would have been made aware of it. Believe me, nobody hates Carr more than I.

not even me????

TexansCM
01-23-2007, 04:59 PM
Don't be shocked at any move the Vikings make. They are my second favorite team but they have made so many blunders before with draft picks

Not only were they late to make there pick and ended up picking a few spots later.

They traded a Super Bowls worth of picks to Dallas for Hershel Walker.

If they give up a third for David, it would be a good deal for them. A former first round pick who has his problems, but is still young and dare I say has potential. He was brought along poorly and that has hurt him. The Vikes line is massive and they had a few problems last year and could use some better receivers, but it would be a good place for David to go and succeed.

That being said, the Texans should only take it if they have a better option at QB. Right now we don't.

Ibar_Harry
01-23-2007, 05:00 PM
Actually I think the Texans need to keep Carr and award him additional pay for being in a combat zone. He has to put up with the other teams defensive front 4 and the Texans Fans. He's constantly being abused by both, so I think he is more than entitled to that additional pay.

Quite frankly, if the Texans don't improve their O-line they should not think about getting rid of Carr. Sage made a tackle and was out for the season. Could he take all of the hits Carr has taken? Some of you think he wouldm't get hit as much and you might be right. But just think if you are wrong, how long would he last? You can say a lot of things about Carr, but he has been a very tough guy on the field. Not many QB's could have taken the licking he has taken and kept on ticking.

We all have different perspectives on Carr and that's the name of the game. In all honesty I said last year I thought it was a mistake for him to stay with the Texans and I guess I continue to be in that camp. Carr needs to play behind a good pass protecting O-line to maximise his abilities and I just don't think that will happen in Houston. The emphasis will be on minimizing the protection of the QB while maximizing the blocking for the running game. That has been true from the beginning and that's why I have always question why the Texans chose Carr.

Buckle
01-23-2007, 05:07 PM
The trade could actually work out very well for the Vikings, especially if they used their 1st round pick on a WR or even trade for one, maybe take Porter off Oakland's hands. Minny has a good O-Line with a monstrous left side that could actually give Carr protection! And with a bigger WR to take some pressure off of Williamson their offense could actually do something.

gtexan02
01-23-2007, 05:11 PM
Actually I think the Texans need to keep Carr and award him additional pay for being in a combat zone. He has to put up with the other teams defensive front 4 and the Texans Fans. He's constantly being abused by both, so I think he is more than entitled to that additional pay.

Quite frankly, if the Texans don't improve their O-line they should not think about getting rid of Carr. Sage made a tackle and was out for the season. Could he take all of the hits Carr has taken? Some of you think he wouldm't get hit as much and you might be right. But just think if you are wrong, how long would he last? You can say a lot of things about Carr, but he has been a very tough guy on the field. Not many QB's could have taken the licking he has taken and kept on ticking.

We all have different perspectives on Carr and that's the name of the game. In all honesty I said last year I thought it was a mistake for him to stay with the Texans and I guess I continue to be in that camp. Carr needs to play behind a good pass protecting O-line to maximise his abilities and I just don't think that will happen in Houston. The emphasis will be on minimizing the protection of the QB while maximizing the blocking for the running game. That has been true from the beginning and that's why I have always question why the Texans chose Carr.

I've been a HUGE Carr supporter until about week 15 or so and then I finally jumped ship. So here is my new realized opinions on your opinions:

#1) Carr has HORRIBLE pocket awareness. No way anyone but him racks up all those hits

#2) Its not hard to take hits when you fall to the ground in the fetal position 1-2 seconds before the defense gets to you

#3) Its not hard to take hits when you run out of bounds behind your own line of scrimmage

Look at the Colts-Patriots game. Peyton took HARD hit after HARD hit, and kept on chucking. I didn't see him ONE time give up without throwing it downfield or making every effort to back pedal away. In at least 4-5 of those crucial moments when Peyton stepped into the defender and threw it only to have a guy destroy him 1/2 a second later, Carr would have been in a ball on the field clutching his knees.

Carr's not tough. I used to think he was, but he's just defensive. He doesn't want to get hurt, and so doesn't get hurt.

dirty steve
01-23-2007, 05:12 PM
Alls I knows is what i hear, and what i hears is that Bobby Mcnair ain't letting carr leave, regardless of anything else on the table. Im not speaking in absolutes, just saying as of right now there is nothing serious in the pipes, and if there was I would have been made aware of it. Believe me, nobody hates Carr more than I.yeah, nobody loves tenn-tenn more than you too. there is obviously nothing serious in the pipes, the season hasnt even ended yet. get over it, you are going to hear this same stuff until next season starts.

i still dont believe if he is dealt that it is for more than a 4th at the most. harrington went for a 5th and carr did absolutely nothing to improve his stock this year.

Dunta_23
01-23-2007, 05:17 PM
Vikings should make the trade and then draft Dwayne Jarret, a big target for DC....Williamson can be Carr's Bradford/Mathis....and they have a good solid RB already...

Anguyen
01-23-2007, 05:18 PM
Just Do It !! No question ask :secret:

Double Barrel
01-23-2007, 05:31 PM
I seriously doubt Garcia would come to Houston or Minn., because he's stated that he does not want to play on a losing team. He specifically chose to be a backup on a good team rather than a starter on a bad team. Even with the lowered salary, he wants to play for a winner (and that ain't us!).

Actually I think the Texans need to keep Carr and award him additional pay for being in a combat zone. He has to put up with the other teams defensive front 4 and the Texans Fans. He's constantly being abused by both, so I think he is more than entitled to that additional pay.

I want our starting QB to earn his spot, not given to him because he's "entitled" to something. He makes $8 million+/year, so being questioned by the media / fans should be water off a duck's back. If he can't handle that pressure, what makes someone think he can handle real pressure (like a winning drive in the two minute warning against a great defense).

Carr for a third round pick? In a heartbeat.

amazingandre
01-23-2007, 06:17 PM
I've been a HUGE Carr supporter until about week 15 or so and then I finally jumped ship. So here is my new realized opinions on your opinions:

#1) Carr has HORRIBLE pocket awareness. No way anyone but him racks up all those hits

#2) Its not hard to take hits when you fall to the ground in the fetal position 1-2 seconds before the defense gets to you

#3) Its not hard to take hits when you run out of bounds behind your own line of scrimmage

Look at the Colts-Patriots game. Peyton took HARD hit after HARD hit, and kept on chucking. I didn't see him ONE time give up without throwing it downfield or making every effort to back pedal away. In at least 4-5 of those crucial moments when Peyton stepped into the defender and threw it only to have a guy destroy him 1/2 a second later, Carr would have been in a ball on the field clutching his knees.

Carr's not tough. I used to think he was, but he's just defensive. He doesn't want to get hurt, and so doesn't get hurt.

are you kidding me?????i remember when it was 3rd and 10 and carr scrambled towards the 1st but was met by a defender...instead of running out he ran back inside and TRUCKED OVER HIM......o ya he lays down in the fetal position.....right.......he did sometimes becasue he noticed someone coming full speed at him and didnt want to die.......do you even watch the texans????????

keyfro
01-23-2007, 06:27 PM
all this anti-david stuff is ridiculous...some of ya'll act as if this is all david carr's fault that the team has never had a winning season...wrong...IMO david gets a free pass the first four years in the league due to a stupid GM and head coach that was so offensively inept that once they drafted guys they never used them right or coached them right...the kid (carr) didn't even have a QB coach till kubiak came over...and if anyone says he had palmer to coach him up your stupid...palmer was no more offensively capable than capers...the coaches paniced when they had a decent offense and screwed everything up...and i haven't even began mentioning the lack of conistant recievers, a quality tight end, and let's not forget that the o-line the first four years was so bad that we had draft day commericals with carr and no line with the famous quote "what does your team need"

i'm not saying carr is the answer here in houston...personally i think a change is what's needed for him and the texans but to blame it all on him is stupid

as for this trade rumor keep in mind that it's from a silly newspaper...it hasn't been posted on any nfl websites or heck even espn yet...until i see anything about the texans shopping carr around to other teams on espn.com i won't believe it...carr in all likelihood is going to be a texan next year but will have to win the starting job out right in training camp with sage and maybe jake plummer or maybe kevin kolb who i noticed was talking to a texan scout after the south's practice today...just an fyi for ya'll

Ole Miss Texan
01-23-2007, 06:27 PM
Don't forget he also throws past the line of scrimmage....twice...in one game. lol.

All i know is as long as Carr is a Texan...he has a long way to go to becoming comfortable and doing what he needs to as a QB. Kubiak is having to reteach Carr everything about fundamental football in the NFL. i have supported Carr for a long time and still like him, but realize his days are probably numbered here. i am indifferent whether to keep him or get rid of him. whatever is best for us.

I do think if he stayed here and improved next season maybe even to the point of being pretty good, people would still be clamoring to get rid of him. As long as we start winning a lot more games, thats mostly what matters. Say we turn into the bears...outstanding defense, questionable QB. i think carr really needs to shut up his critics with his play...or else he will never be wanted in houston.

Kaiser Toro
01-23-2007, 06:37 PM
He's constantly being abused by both, so I think he is more than entitled to that additional pay.

If David Carr is entitled to extra pay then I am entitled to a refund. Lame, very lame promoting a sense of entitlement for doing nothing.

Texan_Aggie222
01-23-2007, 07:02 PM
I have actually heard this trade senerio from a couple of different sources as it is a very serious trade proposel.

A couple of things though:

1. David Carr would have to restructure his contract here in Houston before being shipped to Minnesota, which would mean taking off about $2 million of his current deal, something David wouldn't be too thrilled to do.

2. The Vikings just spent a 2nd round draft pick last year on Travis Jackson who hasn't exactly shown his capabilities yet, and if the Vikings make this trade they could have wasted a second round draft pick.

The Texans are better off just cutting Carr.

aj.
01-23-2007, 07:14 PM
David Carr would have to restructure his contract here in Houston before being shipped to Minnesota.

The acquiring team is the one that has to re-do the deal. You don't convert base to bonus (restructure and lengthen) if you're shipping a guy out.

Dave has about 12 mill in base remaining. That could easily be converted to an affordable 3 year deal with a modest signing bonus. Whether any team is willing to do that plus part with a draft choice is the multi-million dollar question.

If the Vikes or any other team is stupid enough to part with a 3rd, I would be all over it..... I would argue the market is no more than a 5th given Harrington.

The Blessing Cut Off ..... many a time have I sped through your wonderful town on the way to Corpus and beyond......

bigcarlos
01-23-2007, 07:17 PM
Trade him now:bubble:

Untamed Guerillaz
01-23-2007, 07:30 PM
get that deal done now!!!!!!!!!!! im amazed by people who say david carr wasnt given a shot here in houston that to me is a joke.. carr has been handed the startinhg job for 5 complete seasons, there has never been a situation in the league where a qb could be so bad for so long and still keep his job. if carr was on any other team in the league his time would have been up before now. carr has been given way too many chances here in houston and its really put this franchise in a bad spot. this past season we had a perferct opportunity with the first pick to bring in a qb, and what do we do give carr another shot. now a yr. later we are searching for a deal for carr, get this thing done and let this backup qb move on

i with you playa i couldnt have said it better myself..... let this carr ride off into the sun and while at the same time off the cliff.....hollar:marionaner:

Heath Shuler
01-23-2007, 09:18 PM
Don't forget he also throws past the line of scrimmage....twice...in one game. lol.

Exactly; I liked to hear how the apologists explain that away. Five years into this; all we hear is excuses and alibis about our overall number one pick.

yourfavoritetexan42
01-23-2007, 09:47 PM
Yall act like getting rid of Carr is going to magically bring in a better quarterback. Let me let you in on something.

Jake Plummer isn't better, he threw more picks in 8 games then carr did in 16, and he was on a better team.

Jeff Garcia is almost 40... we need a quarterback with a future, not a past. and even so how'd Jeff Garcia do on the browns? or his last few years on the 49ers?

Brady Quinn won't be available.

Kevin Kolb would need to be a backup for a few yeras, than slowly needs to grow before he could see success, plus he wasn't even that great in the first place.

Yall say, let us get a qb that can manage a game... let Carr do it until we get another qb. Why bring in someone, get rid of carr for pretty much nothing, and go through all that hassle to someone who can manage the game worse than carr. And if yall say Carr can't manage a game. He did it 6 times this season, 7 times in 2004.

HoustonFan
01-23-2007, 10:01 PM
Maybe a change in scenery would be good for Carr. He might actually have more success - provided he's not shell-shocked from being sacked so many times here in Houston.

Porky
01-23-2007, 10:11 PM
Carr is terrible. Period. I think most of us are tired of the excuses. Five years in, and the excuses continue. Whole Empires were built and destroyed in less time that these Carr homers want to give this guy. Ridicoulous.

Oh, and the abuse Ibar Harry mentioned. If Boob Mcnair runs this same Carr out there next year, I think it's the fans being abused, and we should let him know we expect better, and if not, people should not go. Why continue to support this pile of cow dung. I cannot support Carr any longer. If Mcnoob insists on rolling him out, I for one, will be doing something else come Sundays, and I am by no means the only one I know who feels the same way.

TexanSam
01-23-2007, 10:14 PM
Yall act like getting rid of Carr is going to magically bring in a better quarterback. Let me let you in on something.

Jake Plummer isn't better, he threw more picks in 8 games then carr did in 16, and he was on a better team.

Jeff Garcia is almost 40... we need a quarterback with a future, not a past. and even so how'd Jeff Garcia do on the browns? or his last few years on the 49ers?

Brady Quinn won't be available.

Kevin Kolb would need to be a backup for a few yeras, than slowly needs to grow before he could see success, plus he wasn't even that great in the first place.

Yall say, let us get a qb that can manage a game... let Carr do it until we get another qb. Why bring in someone, get rid of carr for pretty much nothing, and go through all that hassle to someone who can manage the game worse than carr. And if yall say Carr can't manage a game. He did it 6 times this season, 7 times in 2004.


That's why we have Sage Rosenfels. If we signed Jake Plummer, Jeff Garcia, Damon Huard, or any other free agent QB, he's not going to be the QB of the future. Neither is Carr. I'd rather take a journeyman QB who's better than Carr, even if he's going to be here for only a year or two.

Honoring Earl 34
01-23-2007, 10:16 PM
Act now Vikings and we'll throw in the Ginsu knives for free .

wwffan99tx
01-23-2007, 10:25 PM
Be hard to pass up a 3rd for Carr, but personally I'm hoping Carr stays, has a great year, and shuts up all the anti-Dave people on this board. :)

mexican_texan
01-23-2007, 10:32 PM
I'll be happy with a guy comfortable with throwing down the middle, perhaps more than six yards down the field, and one that has enough pocket presence to step into a throw.

dirty steve
01-23-2007, 10:42 PM
My thoughts in bold.
Yall act like getting rid of Carr is going to magically bring in a better quarterback. Let me let you in on something.

Jake Plummer isn't better, he threw more picks in 8 games then carr did in 16, and he was on a better team.
But Plummer has won consistently and even played in a conference championship and brings a knowledge of the system.

Jeff Garcia is almost 40... we need a quarterback with a future, not a past. and even so how'd Jeff Garcia do on the browns? or his last few years on the 49ers?
Can't say that I am thrilled with Garcia, being that he will probably command at least a two year at a higher yearly rate than Plummer. Second half of 2006 really pushed up his asking price, not that there was really one to begin with.

Brady Quinn won't be available.
No...no...no

Kevin Kolb would need to be a backup for a few yeras, than slowly needs to grow before he could see success, plus he wasn't even that great in the first place.
Not that I want to bring tenn-tenn's name into it, but doesnt that sound like what people were saying about him this time last year? At least Kolb showed success consistently over a 4-year period, never incurred a major injury, and was a team leader at UH. I think you could do alot worse than that.

Yall say, let us get a qb that can manage a game... let Carr do it until we get another qb. Why bring in someone, get rid of carr for pretty much nothing, and go through all that hassle to someone who can manage the game worse than carr. And if yall say Carr can't manage a game. He did it 6 times this season, 7 times in 2004.
I dont really have anything against #8 but I am wondering how many more excuses there are going to be.

dirty steve
01-23-2007, 10:45 PM
Oh, and the abuse Ibar Harry mentioned. If Boob Mcnair runs this same Carr out there next year, I think it's the fans being abused, and we should let him know we expect better, and if not, people should not go. Why continue to support this pile of cow dung. I cannot support Carr any longer. If Mcnoob insists on rolling him out, I for one, will be doing something else come Sundays, and I am by no means the only one I know who feels the same way.
about as fresh as the "broken down carr," "stalled carr..." takes. it doesnt prove your point anymore or less.

mexican_texan
01-23-2007, 10:58 PM
about as fresh as the "broken down carr," "stalled carr..." takes. it doesnt prove your point anymore or less.
Point noted and I also ask that you guys respect the guy that brought the team to Houston...or at least respect the spelling of his name.

Hookem Horns
01-23-2007, 11:11 PM
Point noted and I also ask that you guys respect the guy that brought the team to Houston...or at least respect the spelling of his name.

I totally agree with Porky's post. I think many of us here have respected him plenty with our money and supported his business decision to bring football to back to Houston. However with any business, it's the business's duty to deliver a quality product to the paying customer. To stand by and blindly support idiotic decisions like the one to keep Carr no matter how much he runs the product into the ground is ridiculous.

mexican_texan
01-23-2007, 11:13 PM
I totally agree with Porky's post. I think many of us here have respected him plenty with our money and supported his business decision to bring football to back to Houston. However with any business, it's the business's duty to deliver a quality product to the paying customer. To stand by and blindly support idiotic decisions like the one to keep Carr no matter how much he runs the product into the ground is ridiculous.
Kubiak and Casserly were just as involved, if not more, in those decisions as McNair.

Hookem Horns
01-23-2007, 11:18 PM
Kubiak and Casserly were just as involved, if not more, in those decisions as McNair.

I'm now not talking about past decisions. I am talking about if McNair continues his love affair with Carr no matter what he is doing on the field. If it is truly up to Kubiak I don't see Carr being around much longer. Kubes truly looked disgusted with him several times last season. However some are saying here that McNair won't let go of him. We'll see if this is true or not.

mexican_texan
01-23-2007, 11:25 PM
I'm now not talking about past decisions. I am talking about if McNair continues his love affair with Carr no matter what he is doing on the field. If it is truly up to Kubiak I don't see Carr being around much longer. Kubes truly looked disgusted with him several times last season. However some are saying here that McNair won't let go of him. We'll see if this is true or not.
If Carr is here next year, it'll be mostly due to the fact that Kubiak has yet to give up on him and the option that Kubiak and McNair picked up in 2005...one of the worst decisions ever...Carr may not have struck 6 million per year in the FA market.

TEXANFAN23435
01-23-2007, 11:28 PM
Yeah, it is 110% Carr's fault!!!!!! We have s*cked for 5 years because of him, da*nit, I'm sick of it!!!!! Lord knows we have provided that miserable loser the following:

1. A strong running game over the past 5 seasons, that has consistantly finished in the top 12 so defenses couldn't completely focus on Carr, NOT!!

2. An incredible offensive line, that not only blew holes open for our great runnning game but kept Carr's uniform clean throughout the past 5 seasons. It was completely his fault that he didn't check down to the 3rd WR, heck he had all day back there. NOT!!

3. His trio of WR's and TE's over the past 5 seasons were the envy of better than 75% of NFL teams. Carr's inability to remain upright (definately not the OL's fault) and his horrible habit of falling to the ground in a fetal position absolutely robbed our WR's and TE's of their just dues to become perennial visitors to the Pro Bowl. NOT!!

4. Don't even mention the impact our defense has had on NFL offenses over the past 5 years. They were FEARED! and kept us in so many games but their efforts were undermined by that loser, Carr. Not to mention, the loser was to blame for making our defense look so bad that most of them missed out on their Pro Bowl contract bonuses. That adds up over a 5 year period. I truely believe, that's why most of our defensive personnel is so coveted by other NFL teams. NOT!!

5. Those first 4 years were just magically managed by the FO and HC. That loser made them look bad too! The other NFL franchises kept their fingers crossed each and every Sunday that we would keep that loser in as our starting QB so they could eventually steal all our extremely talented FO and Coaching Staff personnel. NOT!!

6. I forget how Carr was the blame for our Special Teams over the past 5 seasons but for some reason he should be. NOT!!

Carr, "the loser" should have gotten us to the playoffs at least 3 of those 5 years and right now I just can't think of, off the top of my head, the 5 current QB's who could have taken the place of "Loser Boy", played with this group of Pro Bowlers and acheived a different outcome. Any ideas??

Ole Miss Texan
01-23-2007, 11:42 PM
I was thinking about this...if we could get minn. 3rd for Carr, I would probably do it. Then so many people here want us to draft kolb. i'm not against drafting a qb to groom at all. so if we use that 3rd round pick and take carr, thats essentially trading David Carr for Kolb straight up. I don't know if I really like that, although he would be a lot cheaper than carr's contract the next two years.

ATX
01-23-2007, 11:43 PM
I was thinking about this...if we could get minn. 3rd for Carr, I would probably do it. Then so many people here want us to draft kolb. i'm not against drafting a qb to groom at all. so if we use that 3rd round pick and take carr, thats essentially trading David Carr for Kolb straight up. I don't know if I really like that, although he would be a lot cheaper than carr's contract the next two years.

It would be more like trading Carr for Kolb and a 3rd round draft pick.

mexican_texan
01-23-2007, 11:45 PM
Yeah, it is 110% Carr's fault!!!!!! We have s*cked for 5 years because of him, da*nit, I'm sick of it!!!!! Lord knows we have provided that miserable loser the following:

1. A strong running game over the past 5 seasons, that has consistantly finished in the top 12 so defenses couldn't completely focus on Carr, NOT!!

2. An incredible offensive line, that not only blew holes open for our great runnning game but kept Carr's uniform clean throughout the past 5 seasons. It was completely his fault that he didn't check down to the 3rd WR, heck he had all day back there. NOT!!

3. His trio of WR's and TE's over the past 5 seasons were the envy of better than 75% of NFL teams. Carr's inability to remain upright (definately not the OL's fault) and his horrible habit of falling to the ground in a fetal position absolutely robbed our WR's and TE's of their just dues to become perennial visitors to the Pro Bowl. NOT!!

4. Don't even mention the impact our defense has had on NFL offenses over the past 5 years. They were FEARED! and kept us in so many games but their efforts were undermined by that loser, Carr. Not to mention, the loser was to blame for making our defense look so bad that most of them missed out on their Pro Bowl contract bonuses. That adds up over a 5 year period. I truely believe, that's why most of our defensive personnel is so coveted by other NFL teams. NOT!!

5. Those first 4 years were just magically managed by the FO and HC. That loser made them look bad too! The other NFL franchises kept their fingers crossed each and every Sunday that we would keep that loser in as our starting QB so they could eventually steal all our extremely talented FO and Coaching Staff personnel. NOT!!

6. I forget how Carr was the blame for our Special Teams over the past 5 seasons but for some reason he should be. NOT!!

Carr, "the loser" should have gotten us to the playoffs at least 3 of those 5 years and right now I just can't think of, off the top of my head, the 5 current QB's who could have taken the place of "Loser Boy", played with this group of Pro Bowlers and acheived a different outcome. Any ideas??
He has no more help than Matt Leinart.

TEXANFAN23435
01-24-2007, 12:02 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot. What playoff position did the Cardinals get? Bad OL's kill potentially good offenses. Fitzgerald, Bolquin, Edge and Green was shown the door. NFL seasons are dictated in the trenches (OL, DL & LB's). Both the Cardinals and us have nothing resembling a top flight trench group. That's why, try as we may, success will continue to evade us until the trenches are addressed. We ignored the opportunity to address this during our first four seasons and Kubes did address this last year but I'm willing to wait another couple of years as this issue is taken care of with draft picks and free agents. Literally until we have created a PROFESSIONAL version of the "Wrecking Crew" referring to our trenchmen not the overall defense our success will continue to hinge on the hopes of next year. The trenchmen have to evolve into a group that puts fear in other teams and has to be deep enough to rotate and not lose the respect or fear of opposing teams. This is where truely great teams find their core success. Which came first, the QB or the OL??

2BCF
01-24-2007, 12:03 AM
Yall act like getting rid of Carr is going to magically bring in a better quarterback. Let me let you in on something.

Jake Plummer isn't better, he threw more picks in 8 games then carr did in 16, and he was on a better team.

Jeff Garcia is almost 40... we need a quarterback with a future, not a past. and even so how'd Jeff Garcia do on the browns? or his last few years on the 49ers?

Brady Quinn won't be available.

Kevin Kolb would need to be a backup for a few yeras, than slowly needs to grow before he could see success, plus he wasn't even that great in the first place.

Yall say, let us get a qb that can manage a game... let Carr do it until we get another qb. Why bring in someone, get rid of carr for pretty much nothing, and go through all that hassle to someone who can manage the game worse than carr. And if yall say Carr can't manage a game. He did it 6 times this season, 7 times in 2004.

C'mon now, don't be ridiculous.
Carr was reduced to hand-off duty for the latter part of the season. He was not allowed to be a QB, cuz Kubes & Co. had the good sense to take control of a bad situation.
Carr has proven himself to be unreliable, unable to read defenses, unable to pass above the defense, unable to show some poise and exhibit any sense of leadership.
No matter who we get, it will be better than our current situation of a QB that has been demoted to a hand-off specialist.
That's the reality of the situation. Carr is at his best when the coaching staff restricts him to nth degree.

SamuraiSword
01-24-2007, 06:24 AM
Yall act like getting rid of Carr is going to magically bring in a better quarterback. Let me let you in on something.

Jake Plummer isn't better, he threw more picks in 8 games then carr did in 16, and he was on a better team.

Jeff Garcia is almost 40... we need a quarterback with a future, not a past. and even so how'd Jeff Garcia do on the browns? or his last few years on the 49ers?

Brady Quinn won't be available.

Kevin Kolb would need to be a backup for a few yeras, than slowly needs to grow before he could see success, plus he wasn't even that great in the first place.

Yall say, let us get a qb that can manage a game... let Carr do it until we get another qb. Why bring in someone, get rid of carr for pretty much nothing, and go through all that hassle to someone who can manage the game worse than carr. And if yall say Carr can't manage a game. He did it 6 times this season, 7 times in 2004.

Jeeez enough is enough if this were houston oiler fans we would all be saying let go of Warren Moon without a doubt, but David Carr is some icon to these people is just really mind boggling. He hasn't shown much improvement. I would rather take Rex Grossman of all QB's (even though he is bad) than David. Yeah he is not the all the problem with the Texans, but he is the main problem. If you don't believe me ask Dunta Robinson.

SamuraiSword
01-24-2007, 06:34 AM
I feel the need to repeat myself. Carr is going nowhere. We had these hopes last offseason. I doubt very seriously we even bring in another qb this offseason.

well we had Casserly as a GM for one and he is gung-ho over Carr. Our new GM is a real GM and is going to get work done. I have read your statements how you have some inside sources, but even sources can be wrong. Also I do remember this about last offseason everyone though we would get rid of Carr. I just don't understand it. If this was the Oilers we would got rid of Carr along time ago. People may hate bud adams, but he at least knew what to do in this type of situation. Mcnair I like because he brought back football. I just wish he would let go of Carr.

yourfavoritetexan42
01-24-2007, 08:05 AM
He has no more help than Matt Leinart.

Leonard Davis is his left tackle, better than any linemen we have ever had.
Edgerin James is his running back.
Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin are his receivers.


How can you say Matt Leinart has it just has hard?

BigWig
01-24-2007, 08:15 AM
This is where you execute (sorry gr8fan) the ABC's of football.
Anything But Carr!
Also he might do well there its a dome, ha ha!
How about this quote from our famous gov to top it off " Adios mofo"!

old football fan
01-24-2007, 08:23 AM
I love all of these Carr haters out there. They're the ones that after the 2004 season were singing Carr's praises and yelling about the playoffs in 2005. Do I think Carr should stay. No! If I was Carr I would have asked to be traded out of here just to protect my family from being attacked (mentally) by the fans. If Carr is not traded he will not be cut so we all have to live with the idea that he may be back. As far as not wanting to support the Texans you don't have to. I for one will support them through good times and bad because that is what a true fan does.

TexanFanInCC
01-24-2007, 08:26 AM
to be honest, i think alot of you thinking that we have a shot at jeff garcia are completely over yourselves to some degree. i just cannot see the eagles letting him go, considering how much mcnabb gets hurt. i think if anything they will try and lock him up and have him as a safety valve. besides, i think we need to start fresh by drafting a QB and molding him. more and more im starting to believe that plummer would be a better option, or even rosenfels. thats just my opinion.

yourfavoritetexan42
01-24-2007, 08:31 AM
Carr is fast. He has a strong arm, and if he knows where he is throwing he is accurate. His problem is all mental. So many coordinators and coaches, he was never given a good foundation. We have a coach who has great success with quarterbacks, especially in their second year with them.

If we take a rookie qb, I don't see anyone in the draft with the arm strength of carr, or the mobility of carr. They will also need those two years to grow. Carr has already had one year... lets give him a final year while we build the rest of the team, that way if he fails, well at least we have adrian peterson, a built offensive line, an estabilished defense, a pro bowl receiver, and a consistent coaching staff. If he does well, than we didn't have to waste any picks or money or players to be traded for a quarterback.

I still don't see us having anything to lose with keeping him around one more year.

dalemurphy
01-24-2007, 08:35 AM
C'mon now, don't be ridiculous.
Carr was reduced to hand-off duty for the latter part of the season. He was not allowed to be a QB, cuz Kubes & Co. had the good sense to take control of a bad situation.
Carr has proven himself to be unreliable, unable to read defenses, unable to pass above the defense, unable to show some poise and exhibit any sense of leadership.
No matter who we get, it will be better than our current situation of a QB that has been demoted to a hand-off specialist.
That's the reality of the situation. Carr is at his best when the coaching staff restricts him to nth degree.

Give me a break! It's certainly a reasonable argument to say that Carr is not a good NFL QB. However, to say that our QB situation can't get any worse, makes you appear to not be so bright.

Let's see, here are a few existing QB situations worse than HOuston's:

Miami
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland
NYGiants
Washington
TB
Minnesota
Detroit

Mr. White
01-24-2007, 08:41 AM
This was supposed to be the year that he was supposed to show improvement.

He didn't.

QB's regularly get run out of other towns for being more productive than Carr has been.

TexanFanInCC
01-24-2007, 08:52 AM
i will say this. someone else pointed it out and i want to reiterate on it...carr has not had a good foundation for coaching...pretty much a revolving door at all critical coaching jobs (QB coach, OC, capers to kubiak) thats in all fairness to him.

however, 5 yrs in the league, you should be able to adapt on your own. coaching has nothing to do with the decisions carr makes on the field. throwing more ints than tds is pathetic, especially for a guy in his 5th season who has been the starter all 5 yrs and is making a huge salary. more ought to be expected from carr. coaching can oinly go so far. carr has been in the NFL long enough to where he ought to know what balls he shouldnt throw. not to mention, there are some basic things that carr couldnt do, such as go through the progressions, scramble when he needed to, and use his mobility to create better passing lanes to throw through. these are things carr shoulda learned at least by his 3rd yr in the league, really ought to be 2nd, but i have to be leniant.

like i said, in all fairness to carr, the coaching has not been stable at all the relevant positions for carr...but still. 5 yrs of nothing but starting in the league with that salary, i would expect carr to be able to adapt on his own. all i hear are excuses. carr doesnt have the best WR core in the NFL. carr does not have the best o-line in the NFL. they did the same thing with joey harrington in detroit. they tried to fit him with great recievers, but that didnt work... and eventually he was traded. i see a very similar pattern here. i dont hate carr...i think he is a very classy guy who deserves to succeed. i just dont think a majority of texans fans want him here as the starter, so it may just be in his best interest to move on somewhere where he wont be judged for how much more or less he succeeds or fails compared to the guy we coulda drafted, vince young.

mexican_texan
01-24-2007, 09:04 AM
Leonard Davis is his left tackle, better than any linemen we have ever had.
Edgerin James is his running back.
Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin are his receivers.


How can you say Matt Leinart has it just has hard?
Carr has Moulds, Johnson, and Daniels.
Their run game is worse than ours.
Here is their offensive line:
http://www.profootballtalk.com/turnstile.jpg

TexanSam
01-24-2007, 09:09 AM
Let's see, here are a few existing QB situations worse than HOuston's:

Miami
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland
NYGiants
Washington
TB
Minnesota
Detroit

Miami- I'll call it even with Houston. If Texans fans had a choice to either take both Rosenfels and Carr or Harrington and Culpepper, my guess the vote would be split.
Cleveland- I agree. Charlie Frye as a starter. Ken Dorsey as a backup. Yikes!
Jacksonville- I would take Leftwich and Garrard over Carr and Rosenfels. Jags have better QBs than we do.
Oakland, Tampa Bay, Detroit, Minnesota- Have worse QBs.
NY Giants- I would take Eli over Carr.
Washington- Not sure about this one. Jason Campbell hasn't gotten much playing time so far. I call it even.

Double Barrel
01-24-2007, 10:03 AM
all this anti-david stuff is ridiculous...some of ya'll act as if this is all david carr's fault that the team has never had a winning season...wrong...IMO david gets a free pass the first four years in the league due to a stupid GM and head coach that was so offensively inept that once they drafted guys they never used them right or coached them right...the kid (carr) didn't even have a QB coach till kubiak came over...and if anyone says he had palmer to coach him up your stupid...palmer was no more offensively capable than capers...the coaches paniced when they had a decent offense and screwed everything up...and i haven't even began mentioning the lack of conistant recievers, a quality tight end, and let's not forget that the o-line the first four years was so bad that we had draft day commericals with carr and no line with the famous quote "what does your team need"

Hey look, it's everyone else but Carr's fault. :ok:

Dude has five seasons worth of material to evaluate. Name any other QB that has been given this kind of leeway to realize potential. Dig deep now, because it might take awhile for that particular example.

Of course five losing seasons is a team acheivement. It's a team sport, after all.

But beyond the win/loss record, specifically look at the QB position and what this individual player is all about. 250+ sacks in 5 years has conditioned him to react in ways that are detrimental to being a solid, consistent QB. I don't hate the player, and I certainly do not have an agenda. But the fact of the matter is that - at this point in time - Carr appears to be a marginal QB that used to have a lot of potential. He'll never be a leader by his nature. So what we have left is his mechanics, and they are inconsistent, at best.

Is that kind of player worth $8 million to this team?

I'll be happy with a guy comfortable with throwing down the middle, perhaps more than six yards down the field, and one that has enough pocket presence to step into a throw.

But it's not his fault. :secret:

Carr has proven himself to be unreliable, unable to read defenses, unable to pass above the defense, unable to show some poise and exhibit any sense of leadership.

yeah, but...you know...it's not really his fault and all. :shades:

Ole Miss Texan
01-24-2007, 10:23 AM
It would be more like trading Carr for Kolb and a 3rd round draft pick.

How so? i messed up a little on my post but how would Carr = Kolb + 3rd rder?

Carr = Minnesotas 3rd rounder.

we have extra 3rd, minus carr.

with that 3rd pick , we pick kolb.

Carr essentially traded for Kolb.

We still have our 3rd rd pick but we'd have that if we had carr too, so that's irrelevant.

Carr may do really good in minn. or another team. If kolb never panned out but carr did...that would look like one of the worst trades ever.

amazingandre
01-24-2007, 10:46 AM
ya but u take a chance with every trade of not having somone pan out.....if we dont have a vet qb teaching wichever rook we take....i think the rookie will suck like carr does/did......they will have gone through the same stuff....bad oline.....gets sacked a lot...so we still need a vet to help train.....

TexanAddict
01-24-2007, 10:52 AM
Give me a break! It's certainly a reasonable argument to say that Carr is not a good NFL QB. However, to say that our QB situation can't get any worse, makes you appear to not be so bright.

Let's see, here are a few existing QB situations worse than HOuston's:

Miami
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland
NYGiants
Washington
TB
Minnesota
Detroit

I would add Chicago to this list and remove the Giants and perhaps Jacksonville

2BCF
01-24-2007, 12:02 PM
Give me a break! It's certainly a reasonable argument to say that Carr is not a good NFL QB. However, to say that our QB situation can't get any worse, makes you appear to not be so bright.

Let's see, here are a few existing QB situations worse than HOuston's:

Miami
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland
NYGiants
Washington
TB
Minnesota
Detroit
You don't get it.
None of their QBs would do any worse as a Texans QB than Carr did if they have the same restrictions that Carr had at the end of this season.
Kubes made it crystal clear by his play calling that he lost all confidence in Carr's ability. The only thing that would have made it clearer is if Kubes had the Center give the ball directly to the RB on every play.
That's what we have right now.
And I for one do not want to go through an entire '07 season with a castrated QB. Time to move on.

Hookem Horns
01-24-2007, 12:03 PM
I love all of these Carr haters out there.

... and I laugh at all these winning haters out there.

dalemurphy
01-24-2007, 12:13 PM
Miami- I'll call it even with Houston. If Texans fans had a choice to either take both Rosenfels and Carr or Harrington and Culpepper, my guess the vote would be split.
Cleveland- I agree. Charlie Frye as a starter. Ken Dorsey as a backup. Yikes!
Jacksonville- I would take Leftwich and Garrard over Carr and Rosenfels. Jags have better QBs than we do.
Oakland, Tampa Bay, Detroit, Minnesota- Have worse QBs.
NY Giants- I would take Eli over Carr.
Washington- Not sure about this one. Jason Campbell hasn't gotten much playing time so far. I call it even.

Eli Manning- with Tiki Barber and Brandon Jacobs, J Shockey, Burress, and a good OL, Manning had a QB rating 6 points lower than David Carr. Explain how he's better please.

Mr. White
01-24-2007, 12:15 PM
I don't see it happening. Warren Moon got traded to Minnesota for a 3rd rounder.

Who knows. Everyone outside of Houston still assumes Carr has an upside. The Texans need to take advantage of that false assumption. Getting anything for Carr would be a bonus.

:spy: If there are any NFL teams out there that just so happen to read this board....we're just joshin'. We really think that Carr is the best kept secret in the NFL.

Everything that the Carr defenders say about him is true. He would be a bargain for a 3rd rounder! This trade would go down in history with the Ricky Williams to New Orleans trade and the Herschel Walker to Minnesota trade.

You would get over big if you pulled the trigger on this trade and the Texans would continue to be the NFL's laughingstock.

ESPN would say "Whaddaya mean? You passed on Reggie Bush, Vince Young, and then you traded David Carr?!!??"

Hookem Horns
01-24-2007, 12:51 PM
Eli Manning- with Tiki Barber and Brandon Jacobs, J Shockey, Burress, and a good OL, Manning had a QB rating 6 points lower than David Carr. Explain how he's better please.

I can answer that since I am a Giants fan too and watch both of these guys (Carr and Eli) every week. Eli doesn't play scared (go into the fetal position or get happy feet at the first sign of pressure), he takes chances down the field, and tends to get better as the game goes along. He played well in the clutch several times last season bringing the Giants back a few times and putting his team in a position to win (only to have his injury decimated defense blow it for him). Eli was also in only his second season as a starter so of course he is still making some rookie mistakes. BTW, Eli's line wasn't good last season. The Giants had bad injury problems there also and his protection was poor.

Carr's rating numbers are deceiving. He doesn't play to win, he plays it safe and Kubes took the ball out of his hands during the last few games of the season.

real
01-24-2007, 12:53 PM
LOL @ judging a QB from his "QB rating"...

:loser

TwinSisters
01-24-2007, 01:00 PM
LOL @ judging a QB from his "QB rating"...

:loser

It's a passer rating.

DAMMIT STOP THE MADNESS

real
01-24-2007, 01:06 PM
It's a passer rating.

DAMMIT STOP THE MADNESS

:um: :confused:

TwinSisters
01-24-2007, 01:12 PM
:um: :confused:

Somewhere along the line Passer Rating got morphed into "QB Rating".

It only measures passing efficiency and leaves out several critical factors for QB rating.. like running for a first down, throwing it away, etc.

not that it matters or that the tide will ever be turned... but I must do what I can. :)

dalemurphy
01-24-2007, 01:14 PM
LOL @ judging a QB from his "QB rating"...

:loser


Well, here's what I can judge. When Manning had time to throw, he still often made very inaccurate passes. Unlike Carr, who when he's comfortable in the pocket usually makes good and accurate passes. Manning's team finished the season 8-8 in the NFC. That record is hardly more impressive than the Texans' 6-10 AFC record- especiallly when judging the talent of the team as a whole. Despite an excellent running game, Manning throw more interceptions than Carr.

ATX
01-24-2007, 01:16 PM
How so? i messed up a little on my post but how would Carr = Kolb + 3rd rder?

Carr = Minnesotas 3rd rounder.

we have extra 3rd, minus carr.

with that 3rd pick , we pick kolb.

Carr essentially traded for Kolb.

We still have our 3rd rd pick but we'd have that if we had carr too, so that's irrelevant.

Carr may do really good in minn. or another team. If kolb never panned out but carr did...that would look like one of the worst trades ever.


Yeah sorry, fuzzy math on my part:brickwall

old football fan
01-24-2007, 01:23 PM
Carr's rating numbers are deceiving. He doesn't play to win, he plays it safe and Kubes took the ball out of his hands during the last few games of the season.[/QUOTE]

WOW ! ESP! Fly on the wall in meeting rooms. Spy. It is so great to know that a few of you have direct access to Kubiak's brain. Carr does need to move on, but if he is not traded he will be back in 2007 as starter.

real
01-24-2007, 01:37 PM
Well, here's what I can judge. When Manning had time to throw, he still often made very inaccurate passes. Unlike Carr, who when he's comfortable in the pocket usually makes good and accurate passes. Manning's team finished the season 8-8 in the NFC. That record is hardly more impressive than the Texans' 6-10 AFC record- especiallly when judging the talent of the team as a whole. Despite an excellent running game, Manning throw more interceptions than Carr.

Should we account the for the fact that our QB is going into his sixth year vs. a third year guy ?

real
01-24-2007, 01:38 PM
Eli isn't that great, but at this point I'd do a straight up trade of the two in a heartbeat...

mexican_texan
01-24-2007, 01:42 PM
Eli isn't that great, but at this point I'd do a straight up trade of the two in a heartbeat...
NY wouldn't.

Hookem Horns
01-24-2007, 02:10 PM
Well, here's what I can judge. When Manning had time to throw, he still often made very inaccurate passes. Unlike Carr, who when he's comfortable in the pocket usually makes good and accurate passes. Manning's team finished the season 8-8 in the NFC. That record is hardly more impressive than the Texans' 6-10 AFC record- especiallly when judging the talent of the team as a whole. Despite an excellent running game, Manning throw more interceptions than Carr.

Manning had no more time to throw than Carr. The difference being Manning is able to function with the same amount of time. Yes, he thew more INTs however Carr has never really had an INT problem. It's hard to throw INTs when you are throwing 5 yard passes, or running around, falling down either not throwing the ball or throwing it away.

Tiki had a couple of real good games and one great one, however in general the Giants running game was poor due to O line problems and was very inconsistant.

Sure on paper the Giants are more talented but you really can't count that talent if most of it is on IR or on the sidelines injured. The Giants were down to 3rd stringers on key positions on defense (this is why they blew so many leads) and the offensive line. They also lost receivers Toomer for the season and Moss, Burress, and Shockey at key points during the season. This is why they started 6-2 and ended 2-6.

The fact that we are even comparing Eli Manning (2nd year starter) to Carr (5th year starter) doesn't say a heck of a whole lot about Carr.

Granted, if Eli is still playing the same and has not progressed by his 5th year I will probably be calling for his head on the Giants board too.

real
01-24-2007, 02:12 PM
Somewhere along the line Passer Rating got morphed into "QB Rating".

It only measures passing efficiency and leaves out several critical factors for QB rating.. like running for a first down, throwing it away, etc.

not that it matters or that the tide will ever be turned... but I must do what I can. :)

That's why I put " " <<< Quotation Marks around "Quaterback rating"....

That's what he called it...

Double Barrel
01-24-2007, 02:20 PM
Well, here's what I can judge. When Manning had time to throw, he still often made very inaccurate passes. Unlike Carr, who when he's comfortable in the pocket usually makes good and accurate passes. Manning's team finished the season 8-8 in the NFC. That record is hardly more impressive than the Texans' 6-10 AFC record- especiallly when judging the talent of the team as a whole. Despite an excellent running game, Manning throw more interceptions than Carr.

The Giants couldn't beat the Colts. We did it just a few weeks ago (and now they're in the Super Bowl). Our team is not as bad as David Carr's play suggests.

No other position on this team is given the leeway that our QB has been afforded, and no other position has the rest of the team to blame when not living up to "potential".

yeah, yeah, the QB is different...but it's been five seasons: evaluate already.

Ole Miss Texan
01-24-2007, 02:29 PM
The Giants couldn't beat the Colts. We did it just a few weeks ago (and now they're in the Super Bowl). Our team is not as bad as David Carr's play suggests.

No other position on this team is given the leeway that our QB has been afforded, and no other position has the rest of the team to blame when not living up to "potential".

yeah, yeah, the QB is different...but it's been five seasons: evaluate already.

I think this is a horrible statement on you're part.

If Eli and the Giants played the Colts twice a year every year for the past 5 seasons...he would have beat them at least once.

Match up the Colts and Giants...after 10 games I guarantee you Eli beats them once before the 10th time.

I'm not saying who's better eli or carr but that that doesn't have too much to do with it...you're taking things waaayy out of context.

Double Barrel
01-24-2007, 02:34 PM
I think this is a horrible statement on you're part.

If Eli and the Giants played the Colts twice a year every year for the past 5 seasons...he would have beat them at least once.

Match up the Colts and Giants...after 10 games I guarantee you Eli beats them once before the 10th time.

I'm not saying who's better eli or carr but that that doesn't have too much to do with it...you're taking things waaayy out of context.

My point was not to compare QBs, but to compare teams. People have been tearing this team apart in blind support of Carr, and I think it's BS. We were not as bad as everyone is making it out, and DC deserves some of the blame for his own inconsistent play. The Giants certainly have more talent on paper, but the fact of the matter is that we did beat the Super Bowl Colts just a few weeks ago, so we are better than some lovers are giving us credit.

Perhaps reading between the lines is an artform, so I'll try to spell it out in Big Chief letters next time. ;)

Mr. White
01-24-2007, 02:41 PM
My point was not to compare QBs, but to compare teams. People have been tearing this team apart in blind support of Carr, and I think it's BS. We were not as bad as everyone is making it out, and DC deserves some of the blame for his own inconsistent play. The Giants certainly have more talent on paper, but the fact of the matter is that we did beat the Super Bowl Colts just a few weeks ago, so we are better than some lovers are giving us credit.

Perhaps reading between the lines is an artform, so I'll try to spell it out in Big Chief letters next time. ;)

You must spread some Reputation around.....

Ole Miss Texan
01-24-2007, 03:40 PM
My point was not to compare QBs, but to compare teams. People have been tearing this team apart in blind support of Carr, and I think it's BS. We were not as bad as everyone is making it out, and DC deserves some of the blame for his own inconsistent play. The Giants certainly have more talent on paper, but the fact of the matter is that we did beat the Super Bowl Colts just a few weeks ago, so we are better than some lovers are giving us credit.

Perhaps reading between the lines is an artform, so I'll try to spell it out in Big Chief letters next time. ;)

I see your point to an extent. I agree with your assessment that Carr is not the worst qb ever and not as bad as everyone says. We did beat the colts too.

My point was not to compare eli or carr either but was to compare the teams. I mean if the Giants played the Colts ten times, they would beat them more than once...and they wouldn't lost 9 in a row and finally beat them on their 10th time...by 3 points.

Perhaps i should spell it out next time too.

Double Barrel
01-24-2007, 03:53 PM
Perhaps i should spell it out next time too.

I think you pretty much spelled it out with this:

I think this is a horrible statement on you're part.

:ok:

Ole Miss Texan
01-24-2007, 03:59 PM
I think you pretty much spelled it out with this:


:ok:

I though it was more this....

I mean if the Giants played the Colts ten times, they would beat them more than once...and they wouldn't lost 9 in a row and finally beat them on their 10th time...by 3 points.



sorry, i think i was a little harsh on saying your statement was horrible.:winky:

dalemurphy
01-24-2007, 04:41 PM
Should we account the for the fact that our QB is going into his sixth year vs. a third year guy ?

that would be 6th vs. 4th. Account for it all you want. I've not seen much improvement in Eli Manning over the past 1 1/2 years. I only argued that we have the worst QB situation "imaginable". Certainly it's in the bottom half of the league but not nearly the worst.

dalemurphy
01-24-2007, 04:49 PM
Manning had no more time to throw than Carr. The difference being Manning is able to function with the same amount of time. Yes, he thew more INTs however Carr has never really had an INT problem. It's hard to throw INTs when you are throwing 5 yard passes, or running around, falling down either not throwing the ball or throwing it away.

Tiki had a couple of real good games and one great one, however in general the Giants running game was poor due to O line problems and was very inconsistant.

Sure on paper the Giants are more talented but you really can't count that talent if most of it is on IR or on the sidelines injured. The Giants were down to 3rd stringers on key positions on defense (this is why they blew so many leads) and the offensive line. They also lost receivers Toomer for the season and Moss, Burress, and Shockey at key points during the season. This is why they started 6-2 and ended 2-6.

The fact that we are even comparing Eli Manning (2nd year starter) to Carr (5th year starter) doesn't say a heck of a whole lot about Carr.

Granted, if Eli is still playing the same and has not progressed by his 5th year I will probably be calling for his head on the Giants board too.


I'm not arguing that Eli could be the better Qb in three years. I'm talking about the present situation.

Second, I'm not sure that injuries to Strahan excuse Eli's inability to hit the RB in the hands on a swing pass.

Third, the Giants Oline is much better than ours and it certainly didn't suffer more injuries than ours did.

Fourth, if you can excuse Manning's results because of injuries, how about these in regards to David Carr (Spencer, Weigert, DD)... that would be both starting tackles and the HB with nothing behind them in the way of NFL depth (Salaam, Winston/Bedell, Lundy/Dayne).

Fifth, you lose all credibility to say that the Giants running game was "poor and inconsistent"

real
01-24-2007, 04:52 PM
that would be 6th vs. 4th. Account for it all you want. I've not seen much improvement in Eli Manning over the past 1 1/2 years.

And Carr has improved vastly.....:rolleyes:


I only argued that we don't have the worst QB situation "imaginable".


No....You didn't.....

Well, here's what I can judge. When Manning had time to throw, he still often made very inaccurate passes. Unlike Carr, who when he's comfortable in the pocket usually makes good and accurate passes. Manning's team finished the season 8-8 in the NFC. That record is hardly more impressive than the Texans' 6-10 AFC record- especiallly when judging the talent of the team as a whole. Despite an excellent running game, Manning throw more interceptions than Carr.

Double Barrel
01-24-2007, 05:08 PM
I though it was more this....



sorry, i think i was a little harsh on saying your statement was horrible.:winky:

I gotcha', man. And I was just having fun with it. :howdy:

I agree with you that the Giants would probably beat Indy more than once in ten tries. Like I said, my main objective was to point out that the Texans are not as bad as some say when trying to prop up Carr, and perhaps my example was a bit confusing.

Yankee_In_TX
01-24-2007, 05:25 PM
I feel the need to repeat myself. Carr is going nowhere. We had these hopes last offseason. I doubt very seriously we even bring in another qb this offseason.

ding ding ding, we have a winner!

All these Carr rumor threads are cluttering the message boards! I'd be surprised if we even grabbed a rookie (if at all) before the 4th round.

Wolf
01-24-2007, 06:14 PM
I see your point to an extent. I agree with your assessment that Carr is not the worst qb ever and not as bad as everyone says. We did beat the colts too.

My point was not to compare eli or carr either but was to compare the teams. I mean if the Giants played the Colts ten times, they would beat them more than once...and they wouldn't lost 9 in a row and finally beat them on their 10th time...by 3 points.

Perhaps i should spell it out next time too.


I would think we'd get some slack cut for possibly 2 seasons due to being an expansion team and Indy has been one of the elite teams in the league every year since our existance.. but anyway

Ole Miss Texan
01-24-2007, 06:28 PM
I would think we'd get some slack cut for possibly 2 seasons due to being an expansion team and Indy has been one of the elite teams in the league every year since our existance.. but anyway

I hope y'all are getting the point I was trying to make. Okay by your scenario which is understandable...that leaves us with 6 times playing the colts. L,L,L,L,L,W. 5losses then a win. I will say again...which is still part of the tangent I shouldn't have started in the first place. if the Giants played the Colts 6 times. I don't think they'd have the same record/results that we did...only better.

Plus imo...they played the colts very well, it was a great game and really could have gone either way for most of the game. I loved our win though. It almost made it sweeter to me that it was so close and we won by a last second field goal. Best texans win imo...dallas is close...both were great.

Wolf
01-24-2007, 06:39 PM
I hope y'all are getting the point I was trying to make. Okay by your scenario which is understandable...that leaves us with 6 times playing the colts. L,L,L,L,L,W. 5losses then a win. I will say again...which is still part of the tangent I shouldn't have started in the first place. if the Giants played the Colts 6 times. I don't think they'd have the same record/results that we did...only better.

Plus imo...they played the colts very well, it was a great game and really could have gone either way for most of the game. I loved our win though. It almost made it sweeter to me that it was so close and we won by a last second field goal. Best texans win imo...dallas is close...both were great.

I hear ya.. funny game the nfl is.. who'd know we match up well against Jacksonville,even with our crummy record :D

Hookem Horns
01-24-2007, 06:56 PM
Fifth, you lose all credibility to say that the Giants running game was "poor and inconsistent"

So what do you consider good for total team rushing? 150 yards maybe?

The Giants had quite a few under 100 and the game vs. Jax they totaled 25 yards of total team rushing.

Because Tiki had a few monster games I will take back poor but they were very inconsistant.

I think the Giants had just just over 2100 total yards rushing for the year including that 261 yard game vs. the Redskins. Overall good but on a game to game basis it was erratic.

The Texans I think were close to 1700 total yards rushing for the season.

Ole Miss Texan
01-24-2007, 07:01 PM
I hear ya.. funny game the nfl is.. who'd know we match up well against Jacksonville,even with our crummy record :D

We did really good against Florida teams this year. Jack, Jack, Miami!!

QB75
01-25-2007, 09:38 AM
Pull the trigger before they change thier mind. They must not have watched any film yet, otherwise, they would have to be :drunk: to make that trade.

You mean as :drunk: as you were when you posted this?

TexansSB07
01-25-2007, 11:50 AM
Hey let's start our #8 and Carr for Oakland's #1 and Joey Porter rumor, Crazy Al Davis just might go for it. :marionaner:

SamuraiSword
01-28-2007, 04:13 PM
well I posted something on the vikings message boards and all the fans say they wouldn't mind, but not for a third. They said probably a fifth or a sixth round pick. I was astonished on how they reacted on this. I guess they hate their QB as much as most of us hate ours.....