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the wonger need food
01-22-2007, 10:30 AM
If Shannon Sharpe could pull the trade strings, the Broncos' No. 2 quarterback would be in Houston next season, under the tutelage of Gary Kubiak.


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/spotlight_columnists/article/0,2777,DRMN_23962_5296451,00.html

Lucky
01-22-2007, 10:45 AM
Let me say that while I'm OK with Plummer becoming a Texan, I'm pretty far from OK with Shannon pulling any strings.

Texans Horror
01-22-2007, 10:48 AM
Thanks for the info.

I also want to add that if Sharpe could play, he would. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

It seems like a good thing for Houston to have Plummer come here. It makes sense only because Kubiak coached him, and I think Kubes is less-inclined to bring in Denver talent this year.

Hulk75
01-22-2007, 11:10 AM
Wow, Now that is news Wonger, good job.:bubble:

Malloy
01-22-2007, 11:13 AM
Let me say that while I'm OK with Plummer becoming a Texan, I'm pretty far from OK with Shannon pulling any strings.

Isn't Shannon the new QB coach? If that is the case, I guess he SHOULD have some influence?

Double Barrel
01-22-2007, 12:01 PM
We'd better beef up our o-line if Plummer does become a Texan, because I do not see him doing any better than Carr has done with a line that is inconsistent with protection.

jerek
01-22-2007, 01:00 PM
We'd better beef up our o-line if Plummer does become a Texan, because I do not see him doing any better than Carr has done with a line that is inconsistent with protection.

Quiet, you. Carr must be replaced at all costs! Even if it means replacing Carr with an older, more dangerously inconsistent version of himself.

texanfan2100
01-22-2007, 01:03 PM
If Shannon Sharpe could pull the trade strings, the Broncos' No. 2 quarterback would be in Houston next season, under the tutelage of Gary Kubiak.

If I could pull any strings, Shannon Sharpe would stay the hell off of my telelvision. I can't determine who's worse, him or his brother.

thunderkyss
01-22-2007, 01:09 PM
We'd better beef up our o-line if Plummer does become a Texan, because I do not see him doing any better than Carr has done with a line that is inconsistent with protection.

How many sacks were given up in last nights AFC Championship Game??

I counted a good 4 hits to both QBs that would have been definite sacks had Carr been the QB. Jake would do fine behind our OL.... he might throw a few more INTs than David, but if we don't replace Stanely, that might not be a bad thing.

Quiet, you. Carr must be replaced at all costs! Even if it means replacing Carr with an older, more dangerously inconsistent version of himself.

I honestly think Carr is more Bledsoe than Plummer.

"If you give him time in the pocket, he can be very effective"

that statement fits Bledsoe & Carr more than it fits Jake....

"To beat him, you have to keep him in the pocket..... don't let him get outside, and create"

That will never be said about Carr or Bledsoe. But it is the gameplan against Jake the snake.

jerek
01-22-2007, 01:14 PM
I honestly think Carr is more Bledsoe than Plummer.

"If you give him time in the pocket, he can be very effective"

that statement fits Bledsoe & Carr more than it fits Jake....

"To beat him, you have to keep him in the pocket..... don't let him get outside, and create"

That will never be said about Carr or Bledsoe. But it is the gameplan against Jake the snake.

Where in the world do you get this from? Carr looked good early this year when he was consistently rolled out of the pocket. When teams began taking away the rollout, he faltered. I'll agree that he demonstrated weak pocket awareness in the latter half of the season, but Carr is *much* better when he is put on the move by play design.

thunderkyss
01-22-2007, 01:52 PM
Where in the world do you get this from? Carr looked good early this year when he was consistently rolled out of the pocket. When teams began taking away the rollout, he faltered. I'll agree that he demonstrated weak pocket awareness in the latter half of the season, but Carr is *much* better when he is put on the move by play design.

designed roll outs.... sure, he looked OK. But he doesn't have the ability to scramble like Jake, and "create" when a play is busted.

But David is a straight back pocket passer. Just like Bledsoe, he needs a flood of recievers with crossing patterns to create seperation, where he can deliver the ball in the vicinity of the reciever, and not have to worry about INTs. They both need lots of protection, and good seperation by the recievers. Two things we couldn't provide for him in Houston.

Moving Carr around is something we did, and it wasn't very helpful, I don't think. It wasn't something he did in college, and he never would do that on his own. When David leaves the pocket, his instincts are to run... that's the way I see it anyway.

When we would roll him out, & there was a defender in his face, he'd just try to throw the ball over him.... & it would get batted down. If that were Jake, McNabb, Farve, Steve Young, Joe Montana, Elway, they would pump the ball, get the defender in the air, then run dart to the side, and throw the ball around the defender, and not through him. Those guys are comfortable with working outside the pocket.... David is not.

NATHANHALE
01-22-2007, 01:55 PM
Where in the world do you get this from? Carr looked good early this year when he was consistently rolled out of the pocket. When teams began taking away the rollout, he faltered. I'll agree that he demonstrated weak pocket awareness in the latter half of the season, but Carr is *much* better when he is put on the move by play design.

I'm not saying this is not true but Carr set all his records at Fresno State as a drop-back passer--over 4000yds/46 tds/less than 200 yds rushing.

Kaiser Toro
01-22-2007, 01:59 PM
Carr has mobility in order to move the chains, but my issues with him in relation to his footwork are - pocket mobility (step up, step over) and staying as a dual threat when on the run before he hits the LOS.

He has shown "flashes" of the latter, but not enough to warrant it as a strength. His deflections, getting tripped up at the line are all red flags that his footwork, ability to process infromation and execute on the fly have never been in synch. He certainly has never made lemonade out of the lemons he has been given, like a Jake Plummer.

HomeBred_Texan
01-22-2007, 03:08 PM
If I could pull any strings, Shannon Sharpe would stay the hell off of my telelvision. I can't determine who's worse, him or his brother.

Or Mike Irving. They both drive me bananas everytime they open there stupid mouths. So this is really no rumor at all, just more BS coming from some jerk on TV who knows a little about a little and not allot about a whole bunch of things...

Did that make sence? LOL...:hides:

OrangeCountyTexansFan
01-22-2007, 05:23 PM
If Shannon Sharpe could pull the trade strings, the Broncos' No. 2 quarterback would be in Houston next season, under the tutelage of Gary Kubiak.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! !!!!!!! I don't think that would be that great of an improvement!
:texan:

Dunta_23
01-22-2007, 05:41 PM
Or Mike Irving. They both drive me bananas everytime they open there stupid mouths. So this is really no rumor at all, just more BS coming from some jerk on TV who knows a little about a little and not allot about a whole bunch of things...

Did that make sence? LOL...:hides:


WHO ???

mexican_texan
01-22-2007, 05:56 PM
WHO ???
The Tyrone Biggums of the NFL.

Double Barrel
01-22-2007, 06:40 PM
How many sacks were given up in last nights AFC Championship Game??

I counted a good 4 hits to both QBs that would have been definite sacks had Carr been the QB.

I don't necessarily disagree with the above....

The difference being that neither QB has suffered over 250+ sacks in five straight seasons. Carr has been conditioned to react in ways that are detrimental to being a good QB, IMO. Can it be coached out of him? Who knows.

Jake would do fine behind our OL.... he might throw a few more INTs than David, but if we don't replace Stanely, that might not be a bad thing.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about this one, though. I don't see anything so special about Jake that would lead me to believe that he could overcome the inconsistencies that plague our line. Matter-of-fact, I think most QBs in the NFL - save for Vick - would have a tough time consistently dropping back and expecting some time in the pocket if they played on the Texans (I only mention Vick because he's clearly a great runner).

I honestly think Carr is more Bledsoe than Plummer.

We'll have to disagree about this one, too, because Bledsoe is a statue, while Carr does have some good runs in his history. He's just not a good scrambler in the vein of McNabb, Elway, Stauback, etc.

thunderkyss
01-22-2007, 07:09 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with the above....

The difference being that neither QB has suffered over 250+ sacks in five straight seasons. Carr has been conditioned to react in ways that are detrimental to being a good QB, IMO. Can it be coached out of him? Who knows.

That's besides the point.

I'm not particularly ready to give up on David yet.... I just don't think he should be starting next season.


We'll just have to agree to disagree about this one, though. I don't see anything so special about Jake that would lead me to believe that he could overcome the inconsistencies that plague our line. Matter-of-fact, I think most QBs in the NFL - save for Vick - would have a tough time consistently dropping back and expecting some time in the pocket if they played on the Texans (I only mention Vick because he's clearly a great runner).

Jake will make you pay if your blitz don't reach home. give him a 3 step drop, & he'll make sure you respect the deep pass. Jake can look at a defense, and know that a run off right tackle would be more successful if you leave Greg Ellis on the sideline covering your TE. Or if you motion your WR from the left slot to the Right tackle, you'd be better off giving the ball to the RB running off right tackle, and not going forward with the reverse when a free blitzer is sitting on the left side.

I personally don't like the idea of bringing Jake Plummer to Houston.... but I'd take Jake over David & Vick any day.

We'll have to disagree about this one, too, because Bledsoe is a statue, while Carr does have some good runs in his history. He's just not a good scrambler in the vein of McNabb, Elway, Stauback, etc.

He's not a scrambler at all.... he's got wheels, but he isn't elusive... he's not a statue like Bledsoe..... I'll give you that. But if you put together a team that Bledsoe could thrive on, & Carr will be able to thrive just as well. You put together a team that David can't be successfull on, and Bledsoe would struggle just as much.

David isn't Elway.... he isn't McNabb..... he isn't Culpepper, or Harrington... he's a drop back passer.

Double Barrel
01-22-2007, 07:21 PM
Jake will make you pay if your blitz don't reach home. give him a 3 step drop, & he'll make sure you respect the deep pass.

Good points, t'kyss...but on this note, while I agree that the deep threat is probably more realistic with Plummer, I think giving him the ability to feel safe on a 3 step drop is the crux of the matter. I don't think Carr has been afforded the 'luxury' of a consistent pocket that he knows will give him 3 steps on the majority of passing plays. I'm just not sure that Plummer will have much more success with the one-two-BOOM! that we've seen all to often when our QB tries to drop back and pass.

However, Plummer does not have the 'bad habits' that has developed in Carr, much do to the aforementioned 250+ sacks/5 seasons. So Plummer definitely has that going for him.

Hervoyel
01-22-2007, 08:49 PM
<sigh> I know better than this but....

Where in the world do you get this from? Carr looked good early this year when he was consistently rolled out of the pocket. When teams began taking away the rollout, he faltered. I'll agree that he demonstrated weak pocket awareness in the latter half of the season, but Carr is *much* better when he is put on the move by play design.

Carr looked good early this year when he was consistently playing from 20+ points behind. When the Texans stopped getting blown out every weekend and the games got closer he faltered. I'll agree that he demonstrated weak pocket awareness from oh, the second game of 2002 until roughly "now" but Carr is much better when the defense is just trying to keep him from pulling a "Frank Reich Experience" on them and not worried about any real chance that he'll beat them.

thunderkyss
01-22-2007, 10:05 PM
Good points, t'kyss...but on this note, while I agree that the deep threat is probably more realistic with Plummer, I think giving him the ability to feel safe on a 3 step drop is the crux of the matter. I don't think Carr has been afforded the 'luxury' of a consistent pocket that he knows will give him 3 steps on the majority of passing plays. I'm just not sure that Plummer will have much more success with the one-two-BOOM! that we've seen all to often when our QB tries to drop back and pass.

However, Plummer does not have the 'bad habits' that has developed in Carr, much do to the aforementioned 250+ sacks/5 seasons. So Plummer definitely has that going for him.

the one-two-BOOM is a little exaggerated...... an exaggeration we've fostered because of the lackluster performance of our offense. Does it happen?? Sure it does... it happens to every offense, ours more than others?? Maybe.....

NOw.......... about this 250+ sacks/5 seasons. If I had my way, that never would've happened.

AtheGreat
01-23-2007, 12:20 AM
like i've said before, i like the fact that if Plummer comes, it means QB competition. Carr will have to make himself starting NFL worthy each game; it wont be handed to him. If we get plummer, we have 3 qbs going into the offseason that could end up with the starting job. Just like a free-market system, competion is a good thing.

SamuraiSword
01-23-2007, 08:47 AM
Like I said i like Plummer, but what about the other QBs such as Van Pelt or Rosenfels? Will they ever get a shot? I personally think we will not get a QB in the draft this season because of Sage and Bradlee. :goodbad:

Double Barrel
01-23-2007, 12:56 PM
the one-two-BOOM is a little exaggerated......

The fact that we've never had consistent pocket protection on this team is not an exaggeration.

jerek
01-23-2007, 01:54 PM
<sigh> I know better than this but....

Carr looked good early this year when he was consistently playing from 20+ points behind. When the Texans stopped getting blown out every weekend and the games got closer he faltered. I'll agree that he demonstrated weak pocket awareness from oh, the second game of 2002 until roughly "now" but Carr is much better when the defense is just trying to keep him from pulling a "Frank Reich Experience" on them and not worried about any real chance that he'll beat them.

You're right. Why do I try? Carr put together some really good series earlier this year while put on the move by designed rollout, etc. Teams took that away and it seemed the coaches/Carr never adjusted. I've seen him be mobile and successful (2004 comes to mind) but this is an absolutely futile debate, I regret entering it, and I'm leaving now.

I find it funny that it seems we (meaning the collective) have an easier time agreeing about politics, religion, and the unanswerable in life over in the NSZ, but come to a David Carr thread and no one gives up an inch. I suppose our obsession with a quarterback should not be a surprise on a football-themed MB, but it's probably testament to where society at large misplaces its priorities that the readership of this weekly recycled rubbish is ten times that of a thread about God.

Huge
01-23-2007, 02:21 PM
The guy's (Plummer) 32 years old. If he hasn't picked up on it by now, he's not going to. It's not going to matter who his coach is.

You either have it or you don't. Plummer doesn't.

thunderkyss
01-23-2007, 02:58 PM
The fact that we've never had consistent pocket protection on this team is not an exaggeration.

I think that has a lot to do with the man behind the Center. It's just speculation, but I don't think we'd be talking about protection issues if Carr wasn't our QB.

Every team gives up a sack every now & then. Every team will have a bad game or two & give up 4 or 5.....

But to consistently give up 4 & 5 sacks a game, even against the worst defenses in the league is special. To never be able to beat a blitz is unique.

I can see blaming it on the OL..... I just don't.

Double Barrel
01-23-2007, 06:54 PM
suppose our obsession with a quarterback should not be a surprise on a football-themed MB, but it's probably testament to where society at large misplaces its priorities that the readership of this weekly recycled rubbish is ten times that of a thread about God.

Good point, jerek, but I think it has to do with a frivolous debate vs. a really deep, personal debate.

People do not get truly offended when their favorite QB is questioned. It's a shallow discussion, for the most part.

But faith is entirely different, and many folks either do not wish to discuss something so personal, or don't want to be questioned about such a deep, personal issue.

I think that has a lot to do with the man behind the Center. It's just speculation, but I don't think we'd be talking about protection issues if Carr wasn't our QB.

Every team gives up a sack every now & then. Every team will have a bad game or two & give up 4 or 5.....

But to consistently give up 4 & 5 sacks a game, even against the worst defenses in the league is special. To never be able to beat a blitz is unique.

I can see blaming it on the OL..... I just don't.

yeah, good point, t'kyss. I have noticed the line doing it's job in the past but getting blamed when DC would get himself sacked (2004-2005 seasons were like this). Having the problems at QB that we've suffered the past five seasons, I watch other teams with particular emphasis on the QB. All too often I'll see other QBs make plays when pressured on a blitz that Carr just doesn't seem to respond to in the same way. A couple of weeks ago, Brady took a two step drop and threw off his back foot (to Gaffney), and he was slammed a split second later by a blitz. I don't see that kind of response in our QB.

But if it (line problems) is due to our QB, then it's a no-brainer decision, IMHO.