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View Full Version : Deuce + Bush...for how long?


TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 04:45 PM
They both have $50 million dollar contracts, so, IMO they can't stay together for long. Obviously if one of them goes it is going to be Deuce, it wouldn't make much sence to draft Reggie Bush and then trade him away.

How long do you think these two will be on the same team? If Deuce leaves do you think it will be through trade or will he be cut? What kind of impact on the team will losing Deuce have?

I am intersted in all your thoughts.

Silver Oak
01-16-2007, 09:31 PM
RB has yet to impress me when he lines up in the backfield. Of course he's a threat outside, but do you really want your main horse (assuming DM leaves) not being able to make yards through the middle?

Westbrook is the only other player I liken to Bush, but he can move the pile and get tough yards whereas Bush cannot.

Titan "Tack" Fan
01-16-2007, 09:33 PM
Westbrook is the only other player I liken to Bush, but he can move the pile and get tough yards whereas Bush cannot.

Then how did he get over 100 yards against the Giants this year? Magic?

mexican_texan
01-16-2007, 09:34 PM
Then how did he get over 100 yards against the Giants this year? Magic?
The Giants had the top defense in the league.

ArlingtonTexan
01-17-2007, 01:14 PM
I was just reading about this on the saintsreport.com... If this guy has his numbers straight Deuce doesn't have that big a cap hit in the next two years and his salary is not going to hurt them unless they trade him (all bonus would be accelerated to the current year)...so I doubt they move him. He will never see the last two years of that contract though. http://www.saintsreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=151271&postcount=26

That contract is nearly perfect for a running back from the team's standpoint. Duece will hit 30 about the time that cap hit become manageable.

I don't think you will see the team trade Duece. The way the Saints are using both Duece and Bush is best for both players. The Saints use a playermaker, and while they probably want a few more bid plays from Reggie he is getting the ball the right amount of times and in situations that make the most of his talent. The extra say 50-75 carries that Duece is not getting might extend his useful career another year or so.

Silver Oak
01-17-2007, 03:09 PM
Then how did he get over 100 yards against the Giants this year? Magic?

I'll look past the dripping sarcasm and restate that I don't think Bush is the kind of back that moves the pile. If thats true, then the Saints can't financially afford to have a back that is exclusively an outside threat, and also pay someone who runs the ball into the middle of the line.

Just my opinion of course....

Hookem Horns
01-17-2007, 03:42 PM
The Giants had the top defense in the league.

I assume you're being sarcastic or just didn't watch the Giant in the second half of the season. Their defense was horrible during the last 8 games of the season. This was due to all the injuries they incurred. The Giants were down to 3rd stringers in many positions.

BTW, Westbrook is a better runner out of the backfield than Bush. Bush is an Eric Metcalf type player and will never be a backfield runner. If the Saints had to give up one of those guys they would be better off giving up Bush. Deuce is the real deal.

TexansSeminole
01-17-2007, 03:47 PM
The Giants had the top defense in the league.
Overall during the regular season the Giants defense was in the middle of the pack in run defense (yardage and YPC wise), but they gave up 19 rushing touchdowns...which is the 3rd worst in the league.

Both Deuce and Reggie had 100 yard games against them (both with 20 or more carries). They also both had a touchdown.

I was just reading about this on the saintsreport.com... If this guy has his numbers straight Deuce doesn't have that big a cap hit in the next two years and his salary is not going to hurt them unless they trade him (all bonus would be accelerated to the current year)...so I doubt they move him. He will never see the last two years of that contract though. http://www.saintsreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=151271&postcount=26

Thanks for the info and that is quite interesting. I agree that he will never see those $5+ mil seasons. Looks like they can afford to keep them both for a couple more years so...that rushing attack of the Saints will be pretty potent for awhile.

thunderkyss
01-17-2007, 03:56 PM
They both have $50 million dollar contracts, so, IMO they can't stay together for long. Obviously if one of them goes it is going to be Deuce, it wouldn't make much sence to draft Reggie Bush and then trade him away.

How long do you think these two will be on the same team? If Deuce leaves do you think it will be through trade or will he be cut? What kind of impact on the team will losing Deuce have?

I am intersted in all your thoughts.

Duece & RB won't be a problem until Colston asks for big money...... right now, it's like Carolina with two stud WRs...... and everything is everything, until someone else wants a piece of the pie.

TexansSeminole
01-17-2007, 04:02 PM
Duece & RB won't be a problem until Colston asks for big money...... right now, it's like Carolina with two stud WRs...... and everything is everything, until someone else wants a piece of the pie.

Ehhhh....but Keyshawn is old...and he knows it. Who is going to give Keyshawn big money? Deuce is pretty much in his prime right now, and Bush was just a rook last year.

That's an interesting point about Colston though. I wonder how long he will accept that lowly salary of his.

tulexan
01-17-2007, 04:06 PM
Ehhhh....but Keyshawn is old...and he knows it. Who is going to give Keyshawn big money? Deuce is pretty much in his prime right now, and Bush was just a rook last year.

That's an interesting point about Colston though. I wonder how long he will accept that lowly salary of his.

If Colston's next season is as good or better than his rookie, then he will most likely be a hold out in the off season. I can't see him playing 3 seasons with a 7th round pick contract.

TexansSeminole
01-17-2007, 04:07 PM
If Colston's next season is as good or better than his rookie, then he will most likely be a hold out in the off season. I can't see him playing 3 seasons with a 7th round pick contract.

The Saints should lock him up in a contract right now...so if he does have another great season...they dont have to talk money then. Because if he has two good seasons in a row he will obviously ask for more than if they re-structure his contract now. It is possible to re-structure a contract only a year after making the first contract, right?

nunusguy
01-17-2007, 04:09 PM
I'll look past the dripping sarcasm and restate that I don't think Bush is the kind of back that moves the pile. If thats true, then the Saints can't financially afford to have a back that is exclusively an outside threat, and also pay someone who runs the ball into the middle of the line.
Just my opinion of course....
Nobody touches Bush when it comes to racking up ESPN face time, but he also has extreme athletic talents and a versatile array of football skills. Problem is his versatility doesn't include an ability to particapate in a drive as the primary back, the one who moves the chains. That really is fundamental for a team, so in a sense Bush is realy more of a luxury rather than being a necessity to a team.
What we see with the Saints this year is basically what we saw with the Trojans last year in the bowl game. The primary backs were first LenDale White and then Deuce.

TexansSeminole
01-17-2007, 04:12 PM
Nobody touches Bush when it comes to racking up ESPN face time, but he also has extreme athletic talents and a versatile array of football skills. Problem is his versatility doesn't include an ability to particapate in a drive as the primary back, the one who moves the chains. That really is fundamental for a team, so in a sense Bush is realy more of a luxury rather than being a necessity to a team.

But do you really think that they would get rid of him instead of Deuce....they just drafted the guy at #2 overall...and it is not like he was a bust or anything.

jlam
01-17-2007, 06:11 PM
At least for the forseeable future, neither is going anywhere. Right now we're in the top third in the league in cap space, and as was previously stated, we can afford Deuce right now. We would actually LOSE more money in cap space by cutting or trading him than we would by just paying him what he's due. The only way either is going anywhere in the next few years is if some sort of egotistical riff arises for carries and stats, but so far neither player has shown that to be a part of their character.

If I had to speculate, I would say that what we end up doing with our running game long term (4-6 years down the road) largely depends on their health (of course) and Bush's development as a running back. I wouldn't put off the possibility of McAllister restrucuring his contract after he is past his prime to help out the team cap-wise and to stick around, especially given the great relationship between he, the organization, and the region (he's from MS). Also, the fact that his big bonus is guaranteed regardless doesn't hurt anything.

Time will tell, as RB has to be the hardest position in football to forcast long term due to the physical nature of their position. Who knows, maybe Reggie develops into a great every down back. Maybe Deuce (God forbid) goes down with another ankle injury and we bring in a lesser power runner to assume his role in the offense. You just never really know, I guess. My heart hopes Deuce retires a Saint, though. He's straight class and one of my favorites ever.

As far as Colston goes, I highly doubt he will finish his rookie contract. He'll be restructured or signed to an extension I would think as soon as we are allowed to do so, especially if he plays well next season. The NFL doesn't allow players to renegotiate their rookie contract until a certain amount of time after they are signed. I don't think we can re-do his deal until at least after next year, but if someone can find the specifics on this, please post.

sixfour
01-17-2007, 06:58 PM
Then how did he get over 100 yards against the Giants this year? Magic?

Of his 20 rushes only one was up the middle.




http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20061224019&page=plays

TexansSeminole
01-17-2007, 08:09 PM
Of his 20 rushes only one was up the middle.




http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20061224019&page=plays

Well, in this case, if you are finding success by running to the outsides why not continue to do that?

mexican_texan
01-17-2007, 08:12 PM
I assume you're being sarcastic or just didn't watch the Giant in the second half of the season. Their defense was horrible during the last 8 games of the season. This was due to all the injuries they incurred. The Giants were down to 3rd stringers in many positions.

BTW, Westbrook is a better runner out of the backfield than Bush. Bush is an Eric Metcalf type player and will never be a backfield runner. If the Saints had to give up one of those guys they would be better off giving up Bush. Deuce is the real deal.
Yeah, that was sarcasm. I don't get as many Giants games as I used to, but I watched enough games to know DT has been a big hole for a while.

mexican_texan
01-17-2007, 08:13 PM
Bush is an average or below average runner up the middle, but he's pretty good when he can get outside. He's an elite weapon, though.

Mr. B
01-17-2007, 11:51 PM
Deuce is the type of player that if they treat him right would probably work with the team to play out his career as a Saint but all of you seem to forget whom he plays for which is a certain scum bag in Benson.

Don't ever think this guy won't pull the plug on Duece to cash in on the marketing for Bush.

The more important thing to keep in mind is if the Saints will stay in New Orleans as ol' Benson is no doubt plotting and planning to cash in on the Saints good fortune and possibly try to spin off a sale to some other city and fill his pockets before things go downhill again should that happen. They were discussing this very scenerio on PTI tonight.

I just wish some fan would take him out with something when he is doing his dance on the field cause I want to puke when I see that.

B

powerfuldragon
01-18-2007, 12:16 AM
i feel like i should apologize for derailing this thread.

mexican_texan
01-18-2007, 12:17 AM
i feel like i should apologize for derailing this thread.
I think you're looking for the Bush bot thread.

powerfuldragon
01-18-2007, 01:05 AM
I think you're looking for the Bush bot thread.
yeah. i was 90% sure i clicked on bushbot. i love beer.

mexican_texan
01-18-2007, 02:32 AM
yeah. i was 90% sure i clicked on bushbot. i love beer.
Your PWI make too much sense.

powerfuldragon
01-18-2007, 11:15 AM
Your PWI make too much sense.

it takes me approx. a year to finish a short post when i'm drunk. plus, it's not like i'm cross-eyed drunk when i'm posting.

DCSaints_fan
01-18-2007, 11:49 AM
Deuce is the type of player that if they treat him right would probably work with the team to play out his career as a Saint but all of you seem to forget whom he plays for which is a certain scum bag in Benson.

Don't ever think this guy won't pull the plug on Duece to cash in on the marketing for Bush.


Yeah Benson sure is cheapo.

He's so cheapo, that he failed to sign Deuce McAllister to the second largest contract for a RB at that time.

He's so cheap, that he let go of stars like Joe Horn and Aaron Brooks.

He's so cheap, that he got outbid by Miami for Drew Brees.

He's so cheap, that he passed on Reggie Bush and instead traded down to pick up less expensive players in later rounds.


The more important thing to keep in mind is if the Saints will stay in New Orleans as ol' Benson is no doubt plotting and planning to cash in on the Saints good fortune and possibly try to spin off a sale to some other city and fill his pockets before things go downhill again should that happen. They were discussing this very scenerio on PTI tonight.

I just wish some fan would take him out with something when he is doing his dance on the field cause I want to puke when I see that.
B

If the city/region doesn't recover then yes its possible they could move. But if they do, and they get a new stadium deal hammered out, then I don't see see how they could move. The Dome has gotten significant outside renovation money and is probably good for another 10 years at least. Remember that thats a big chunk of value for any NFL franchise. Besides that, there's really not a good enough of a market anywher else except L.A., and they don't seem to want an NFL team. San Antonio is going to be blocked by the Cowboys/Texans lobby and they city council there will not put up funds for a new stadium.

Mr. B
01-18-2007, 04:30 PM
Duece was a monster coming out of College and his contract was nothing special plus they had enough of Ricky and since his contract was a joke it was nothing to get rid of him.

Horn was tossed around in trade deals in the past but the trigger was never pulled so your point they wouldn't get rid of him is moot. Aaron Brooks was a love affair of Haslett and should never have gotten more than at most 2 seasons with the Saints.

Miami chose Culpepper over Brees nothing to do with money.

The Saints needed Reggie Bush like a hole in the head. I think he was taken purely from a Marketing and Promotional standpoint to fill the seats and put some cash in Bensons pocket but that is just my opinion of it. After watching Benson and his organization over many years it fits right in line.

How many marquee players over the years has he let go simply because he didn't want to pony up the money ??? Way more than on your list of a few above. The saints had one of the shrewdest money men in football in Jim Finks and even he said Benson was a tightwad and left him hard pressed to find ways to keep good players.

How many stadium deals does the state of Louisiana need to give Benson. As it stands they are constantly under the threat of him moving the team in order to get bigger and more lucrative deals for himself. The state has pretty much funded him and his organization for years in order to keep them in New Orleans and no matter what they do it is always not good enough.

B

Ole Miss Texan
01-18-2007, 04:38 PM
Duece was a monster coming out of College and his contract was nothing special plus they had enough of Ricky and since his contract was a joke it was nothing to get rid of him.

Horn was tossed around in trade deals in the past but the trigger was never pulled so your point they wouldn't get rid of him is moot. Aaron Brooks was a love affair of Haslett and should never have gotten more than at most 2 seasons with the Saints.

Miami chose Culpepper over Brees nothing to do with money.

The Saints needed Reggie Bush like a hole in the head. I think he was taken purely from a Marketing and Promotional standpoint to fill the seats and put some cash in Bensons pocket but that is just my opinion of it. After watching Benson and his organization over many years it fits right in line.

How many marquee players over the years has he let go simply because he didn't want to pony up the money ??? Way more than on your list of a few above. The saints had one of the shrewdest money men in football in Jim Finks and even he said Benson was a tightwad and left him hard pressed to find ways to keep good players.

How many stadium deals does the state of Louisiana need to give Benson. As it stands they are constantly under the threat of him moving the team in order to get bigger and more lucrative deals for himself. The state has pretty much funded him and his organization for years in order to keep them in New Orleans and no matter what they do it is always not good enough.

B

I tend to agree with this, but after seeing how this season played out. I can't see them moving to another city ..ala LA. If they do ever move it will be a long time from now...he's going to milk that and the media attention for as long as he can (which will probably be untill they lose brees, mcalister). Doubt they will give Bush an extention if they are losing or back to their old ways..because of benson's past. if they still are winning the nfc south thats a different story.

thunderkyss
01-18-2007, 06:03 PM
Duece was a monster coming out of College and his contract was nothing special plus they had enough of Ricky and since his contract was a joke it was nothing to get rid of him.

The point about Duece was that Benson Ponied up, and made him a paid him in accordance with the top paid RBs in the league.

Horn was tossed around in trade deals in the past but the trigger was never pulled so your point they wouldn't get rid of him is moot.

Trade Horn rumors are more about getting value...... not about Benson being cheap. You think it's hard to get a quality player in Houston... imagine a 40 year history with only one play-off victory.

Aaron Brooks was a love affair of Haslett and should never have gotten more than at most 2 seasons with the Saints.

IF you watched the Saints, you'd know Aaron had 4 good years...... never with an offensive line better than what the Saints have now, and never with the team clicking like it is now, on all cylinders like it is now. He has made mistakes...... stupid decisions for sure...... but if you watched them, you know it's because he tried to hard.

Miami chose Culpepper over Brees nothing to do with money.

true...... NewOrleans did not win a bidding war to get Brees...... but Brees was asking for a lot more than he had proven that he was worth...... he looks like a bargain now, and a no brainer. But at the time.. .. coming off a surgery to his throwing arm?? It was a big gamble, a gamble Miami wasn't willing to take.

The Saints needed Reggie Bush like a hole in the head. I think he was taken purely from a Marketing and Promotional standpoint to fill the seats and put some cash in Bensons pocket but that is just my opinion of it. After watching Benson and his organization over many years it fits right in line.

I think it had more to do with the hype and pressure the media was putting on the Texans to Draft Reggie. They had a few minutes to make a decision.... the decision they made put another 50 million dollars into a position they didn't need...... another Gamble.

How many marquee players over the years has he let go simply because he didn't want to pony up the money ??? Way more than on your list of a few above. The saints had one of the shrewdest money men in football in Jim Finks and even he said Benson was a tightwad and left him hard pressed to find ways to keep good players.

Who did they let go?? Kyle Turley?? LeCharlesBentley?? MarkFields?? DarrenHoward?? JoeJohnson?? WillyWhitehead?? who?? who have they gotten rid of that made a big splash in the NFL after they left?? All the guys I've mentioned were overpaid bye the squad that took them, because they didn't do as well after they left N.O. with maybe Kyle Turley as an exception, but he had issues that would explain why the Saints wanted him gone.

How many stadium deals does the state of Louisiana need to give Benson. As it stands they are constantly under the threat of him moving the team in order to get bigger and more lucrative deals for himself. The state has pretty much funded him and his organization for years in order to keep them in New Orleans and no matter what they do it is always not good enough.

B

He needs to learn, just like the Texans.... that winning football rakes in the moolah........ well, he's learning that now.

Titan "Tack" Fan
01-20-2007, 01:09 PM
Of his 20 rushes only one was up the middle.




http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20061224019&page=plays

So off tackle runs and sweeps don't count anymore? Ohhhhh. Next time I vote for the Pro Bowl, I'm going to make sure the RBs only ran up the middle. Cause that's what real running backs do.

jlam
01-21-2007, 12:34 AM
Who did they let go?? Kyle Turley?? LeCharlesBentley?? MarkFields?? DarrenHoward?? JoeJohnson?? WillyWhitehead?? who?? who have they gotten rid of that made a big splash in the NFL after they left?? All the guys I've mentioned were overpaid bye the squad that took them, because they didn't do as well after they left N.O. with maybe Kyle Turley as an exception, but he had issues that would explain why the Saints wanted him gone.


We actually still have Willy Whitehead. :)

I guess if I was going to come up with a serious answer, the best one I could come up with would be Willie Roaf. He should have gone into the HOF as a Saint. He left on bad terms, and now I doubt he will.

mexican_texan
01-21-2007, 12:48 AM
We actually still have Willy Whitehead. :)

I guess if I was going to come up with a serious answer, the best one I could come up with would be Willie Roaf. He should have gone into the HOF as a Saint. He left on bad terms, and now I doubt he will.
He shoulda gone to the HOF with the Texans...but nooo...we got Tony Boselli.