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swoldier
01-16-2007, 10:22 AM
Well they powers at be have decided this morning in their mock draft that more notably Jamarcus Russel goes numero uno to Oakland Brady Quinn at numero dos and the only pick that we all care about Adrian Peterson drops to the Texans at numero ocho. I think i would be happy with this pick seeing as how our top back is Ron Dayne and DD/DW Is coming back from a pretty serious knee injury. What say the Texans fans?

joedinkle
01-16-2007, 10:24 AM
I want Landry in the 1st, and a RB in the second. Someone's lightning to Dayne's Thunder. There will still be quality backs there, and Saftey is a bigger need.

Double Barrel
01-16-2007, 10:26 AM
Unless Kubiak completely breaks from the Denver formula, we won't be taking AP in the first round.

O.G.
01-16-2007, 10:27 AM
Well they powers at be have decided this morning in their mock draft that more notably Jamarcus Russel goes numero uno to Oakland Brady Quinn at numero dos and the only pick that we all care about Adrian Peterson drops to the Texans at numero ocho. I think i would be happy with this pick seeing as how our top back is Ron Dayne and DD/DW Is coming back from a pretty serious knee injury. What say the Texans fans?

I would wait on making a decision on any running back until after the Indy Combines.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 10:31 AM
Unless Kubiak completely breaks from the Denver formula, we won't be taking AP in the first round.
I think you put way to much into that concept around here. Denver never had many high picks like us but always took backs like Portis if the value was there early in the draft...I think this team will draft talent over filling needs with critical early picks going forward with Richard Smith.

Errant Hothy
01-16-2007, 10:31 AM
Unless Kubiak completely breaks from the Denver formula, we won't be taking AP in the first round.

So do we just ignore the fact that Kubes tried to trade back inot the first round to grab a RB?

Yes, I know Denver never selected an RB early; but that does not mean Kubes would be opposed to. If I recall he wasn't running the drafts. Shannahan could have asked for Kubiak's input and he very well might have said let's grab stud RB propect at 22 but Denver decieded to go another direction.

The only draft we should use to evaluate Kubiak's draft philosophy is last years, and the evidence from said draft shows that Kubes my very well draft an RB in the first round.

Yankee_In_TX
01-16-2007, 10:40 AM
2 things

it's jamarcus russell
I want Landry in the 1st, and a RB in the second. Someone's lightning to Dayne's Thunder. There will still be quality backs there, and Saftey is a bigger need.

OR CB. But one of those two :)

beerlover
01-16-2007, 10:44 AM
I think you put way to much into that concept around here. Denver never had many high picks like us but always took backs like Portis if the value was there early in the draft...I think this team will draft talent over filling needs with critical early picks going forward with Richard Smith.

I like the sound of that :thumbup

jdm12
01-16-2007, 10:48 AM
Well they powers at be have decided this morning in their mock draft that more notably Jamarcus Russel goes numero uno to Oakland Brady Quinn at numero dos and the only pick that we all care about Adrian Peterson drops to the Texans at numero ocho. I think i would be happy with this pick seeing as how our top back is Ron Dayne and DD/DW Is coming back from a pretty serious knee injury. What say the Texans fans?

I saw the same thing last week on ESPN's 1st and 10. I have not decided if I would be for or against this pick. Don't get me wrong we do have other needs. However, can we afford to bypass on him if he is there.

I know Kubes is not going to count on DW coming back healty. Also I am not sure if Dayne is capable of being a feature back. Those two thoughts make me OK with the pick. Knowing that Kubes has been able to turn RB's off the street (so to speak) into 1000+ yard rushers would make me against it. What about his injuries? I did not get to see the bowl game which he made his return in. How did he look?

J

Texans Horror
01-16-2007, 10:49 AM
I think you put way to much into that concept around here. Denver never had many high picks like us but always took backs like Portis if the value was there early in the draft...I think this team will draft talent over filling needs with critical early picks going forward with Richard Smith.

I'm expecting a volte-face when it comes to Kubiak's selection of running backs. He tried drafting a RB late last year because the team had Dominic Williams. One year later, and DW's status has lowered due to questions of work ethic and durability. I expect Kubes to take a new RB, Peterson or Lynch, whoever is available.

tulexan
01-16-2007, 10:49 AM
Unless Kubiak completely breaks from the Denver formula, we won't be taking AP in the first round.

Well we were going to draft a RB with the first pick last year until Bush's agent became difficult and the housing scandal broke.

Plus like Hoth-Boy said, we were going to trade back into the first round to draft DeAngelo Williams before the Bills offered a better deal.

Mr teX
01-16-2007, 10:55 AM
Well they powers at be have decided this morning in their mock draft that more notably Jamarcus Russel goes numero uno to Oakland Brady Quinn at numero dos and the only pick that we all care about Adrian Peterson drops to the Texans at numero ocho. I think i would be happy with this pick seeing as how our top back is Ron Dayne and DD/DW Is coming back from a pretty serious knee injury. What say the Texans fans?

What are u kidding? I want secondary help badly & wouldn't be unhappy if we went that route in the draft, but if AP falls to us, i think we have to take him for 2 reasons. 1, our scheme is designed around the run game so we would need a stud back & 2, we'd solidify our RB position.

Since this draft is deep in CB's & FS's we should be okay going to into the 2nd picking up a possible starter for our secondary...................... Of course all of this depends on what happens in Free Agency so...

Zac
01-16-2007, 12:11 PM
Peterson seems like a more viable option than Reggie Bush for the Texans team.

Bush is a back that likes to dance and runs a lot. He is lightning quick, but in the NFL, he has yet to be the next Barry Sanders. In New Orleans, Deuce has gotten the workload at Running Back.

On the other hand, Peterson is more of a single cut and run hard running back. He is a powerful runner; who as his name is "All Day"; get stronger as the game goes on.

Dr. Toro
01-16-2007, 12:35 PM
I've waffled on this, but if Peterson is there, the Texans have to take him, unless a more highly rated offensive player is still available. Calvin Johnson, JaMarcus Russell, and Joe Thomas are probably the only guys. Bottom line, the team needs an offensive identity, and I think Peterson can bring that. It's not necessarily a great investment of the dollars or the pick, and is very high risk, but he's an immediate impact player. Peterson is also a bone to throw at Houston fans, who've been a bit divided by the Carr/Young/Bush ordeal. There is one playmaker on the Texans offense, and I think Peterson can make it a much better unit immediately. This is the rare occasion where the interests of the fans and team needs unite. It's a risky pick.

I still think Peterson's too good of a fit for Cleveland to pass up. If Russell, Thomas, Johnson, and Peterson are gone, then I think it's clearly a BPA situation. At that point, it's more likely we're looking at a safety or a DT. I wouldn't mind a complementary DE for Mario. Synergy is a great thing, I can't tell if Freeney or Mathis is better, and who makes who better. It's a beautiful thing, and those 2 guys have made them a viable Super Bowl team... so I'm all for DE if there's an active speed rush guy there, worthy of the pick.

nunusguy
01-16-2007, 12:38 PM
Well we were going to draft a RB with the first pick last year until Bush's agent became difficult and the housing scandal broke.


I've come to the conclusion that Reggie Bush is not and won't be a feature
running back in the NFL. 17 games this season, and only one game where he's
had 100 yards, and I saw parts of that game including a long drive by the Saints where Bush had multiple rushs. And each time he tried to dart outside.
On the other hand, I dunno if Bush can be a pure WR ? I've never seen him run a deep post across the middle, never even seen him run a fly pattern ?
I've seen him run little patterns from the slot, but thats it.
Peterson on the other hand is an NFL feature back. He's Deuce McCalister with a lot more speed. Really he's got Larry Johnson written all over him.
But even though he hasn't blow out a knee, his injuries are very troubling.
These guys jump head-first into the EZ all the time, but who ever heard of
any back suffering a serious injury from that little maneuver/celebration other than AD ?
If it weren't for the concerns about injury, I'd be good with AD. He'd really pumpup offseason interest, and would guarantee a 6th straight year of sell-outs. Might even divert attention from McNairs retention of DC, and you know the ole man would like that.

AustinJB
01-16-2007, 12:49 PM
I have to weigh in on this issue...again.

In previous posts in several different threads, I have made my case for AP. As some have already posted, his so-called "durability concerns" are not warranted IMO. A broken collarbone and sprained ankle is NOT something that will affect the long-term productivity of a RB.

BTW, his collarbone injury wasn't b/c he dove into the endzone and was celebrating. If anyone watched that game or the highlights, you can see that he was fighting for yardage, slightly spinning, and a defender hit him low and he just carried his momentum into a dive in order to make into the endzone.

If he had blown out his knee a couple of times, torn an ACL, etc. then I too would consider it a high risk, but as it stands now, I think he is a superb talent and great football player. He reminds me of a Larry Johnson/Terrell Davis type RB....one-cut and then head north.

AP is definitely my 1st choice if he is there at #8, and I really think he will be. If we don't take him, the only other scenarios that I want to see are as follows:

-take Jamaal Anderson at #8. (equal value)
-trade down to pick up a FS and acquire an extra draft pick. (better value)

IMO, these two scenarios are the only two that have either equal or better value than the Peterson pick would.

Dr. Toro
01-16-2007, 12:49 PM
I've come to the conclusion that Reggie Bush is not and won't be a feature
running back in the NFL. 17 games this season, and only one game where he's
had 100 yards, and I saw parts of that game including a long drive by the Saints where Bush had multiple rushs. And each time he tried to dart outside.
On the other hand, I dunno if Bush can be a pure WR ? I've never seen him run a deep post across the middle, never even seen him run a fly pattern ?
I've seen him run little patterns from the slot, but thats it.
Peterson on the other hand is an NFL feature back. He's Deuce McCalister with a lot more speed. Really he's got Larry Johnson written all over him.
But even though he hasn't blow out a knee, his injuries are very troubling.
These guys jump head-first into the EZ all the time, but who ever heard of
any back suffering a serious injury from that little maneuver/celebration other than AD ?
If it weren't for the concerns about injury, I'd be good with AD. He'd really pumpup offseason interest, and would guarantee a 6th straight year of sell-outs. Might even divert attention from McNairs retention of DC, and you know the ole man would like that.

Most people worry about ACL's and stuff like that. I actually worry more about ankle issues, collarbones, and general durability. Peterson's had issues with shoulder dislocations, which he had surgery for, a broken collarbone, and ankle sprains. That's all not unexpected for RB's, but the extent of it and his running style is a bit worrying. Some guys can just stay healthy, Peterson seems to be the type that's always got something nagging him... there's really no way to know. He is a great runner though, ideally he had have a little better feet.

real
01-16-2007, 12:57 PM
I've come to the conclusion that Reggie Bush is not and won't be a feature
running back in the NFL. 17 games this season, and only one game where he's
had 100 yards, and I saw parts of that game including a long drive by the Saints where Bush had multiple rushs. And each time he tried to dart outside.
On the other hand, I dunno if Bush can be a pure WR ? I've never seen him run a deep post across the middle, never even seen him run a fly pattern ?
I've seen him run little patterns from the slot, but thats it.
Peterson on the other hand is an NFL feature back. He's Deuce McCalister with a lot more speed. Really he's got Larry Johnson written all over him.
But even though he hasn't blow out a knee, his injuries are very troubling.
These guys jump head-first into the EZ all the time, but who ever heard of
any back suffering a serious injury from that little maneuver/celebration other than AD ?
If it weren't for the concerns about injury, I'd be good with AD. He'd really pumpup offseason interest, and would guarantee a 6th straight year of sell-outs. Might even divert attention from McNairs retention of DC, and you know the ole man would like that.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make about Reggie...Who cares how he gets his yards? I'm not sure if you were really knocking him or not, but at this point I can almost gaurantee that all 32 teams in the NFL, including the Texans, would take Reggie Bush at this point...

Lucky
01-16-2007, 01:17 PM
...but at this point I can almost gaurantee that all 32 teams in the NFL, including the Texans, would take Reggie Bush at this point...
With a $50 million price tag, I'm not so sure. I thought Bush would bring more to the table than he's shown thus far. Still, it's early. Of the top 10 '06 draft choices, only Vince Young has exceeded my expectations.

nunusguy
01-16-2007, 01:35 PM
I don't understand the point you're trying to make about Reggie...Who cares how he gets his yards? I'm not sure if you were really knocking him or not, but at this point I can almost gaurantee that all 32 teams in the NFL, including the Texans, would take Reggie Bush at this point...

Reggie Bush was taken #2 last year for his ability to be an NFL running back.
Right ? But is he that player ? The Jags rookie Maurice Drew had 300-400 more rushing yards than Bush, while having to share snaps with Freddy Taylor (just as Bush had to share time with Deuce). And Drew was also an excellent receiver and return man as was Bush. Why is Bush a more valuable
player than Drew ? Because he's got a Heisman, gets wall-to-wall hype on ESPN, and went to USC instead of UCLA ? OH yea, and his name is Reggie Bush. While VY won the OROY award, the AP Sports writers made Drew the runner up with more votes for rookie-of-the-year than Bush. And Drew also finished with more total yards than Bush and scored 7 more TDs.
Actually, 5 rookies had more rushing yards than fellow rookie Bush.
Why would 32 teams today draft Bush over Drew if Drew was the more productive and more effective running back ?

Vinny
01-16-2007, 01:38 PM
Reggie Bush was taken #2 last year for his ability to be an NFL running back.
Right ?obviously not since the Saints use him in the slot and more like a wr than a rb.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 01:40 PM
With a $50 million price tag, I'm not so sure. I thought Bush would bring more to the table than he's shown thus far. Still, it's early. Of the top 10 '06 draft choices, only Vince Young has exceeded my expectations.Big plays like his run last week is what wins you games....heck, playoff games....you know, like the big plays we don't make. I'd take that any day. Heck, our staff said point blank that we need to find playmakers. LOL to that since we passed on the best play makers any recent draft has produced in years last draft.

real
01-16-2007, 01:48 PM
With a $50 million price tag, I'm not so sure. I thought Bush would bring more to the table than he's shown thus far. Still, it's early. Of the top 10 '06 draft choices, only Vince Young has exceeded my expectations.

Bush has pretty much done what I thought he'd do...Make big plays, draw attention and be a threat all over the field...I love how the Saints use him....

nunusguy
01-16-2007, 01:52 PM
obviously not since the Saints use him in the slot and more like a wr than a rb.
Just as the Texans probably miscalculated that Mario could be a big-time NFL edge rusher, the Saints probably miscalculated that Bush could be a
big-time NFL running back. Because trust me, a team just doesn't use the #2 overall on a slot receiver.

real
01-16-2007, 01:55 PM
Why would 32 teams today draft Bush over Drew if Drew was the more productive and more effective running back ?

I don't understand why you have to look at things so black and white...

Add some color to your life...

Just because he doesn't fit into your personal box and opinion of "what a RB should be", he's not valuable ?

real
01-16-2007, 01:57 PM
Just as the Texans probably miscalculated that Mario could be a big-time NFL edge rusher, the Saints probably miscalculated that Bush could be a
big-time NFL running back. Because trust me, a team just doesn't use the #2 overall on a slot receiver.

You're still trying to make him fit into a box...

I seriously...........seriously.............doubt the Saints regret their pick....

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 01:57 PM
Big plays like his run last week is what wins you games....heck, playoff games....you know, like the big plays we don't make. I'd take that any day. Heck, our staff said point blank that we need to find playmakers. LOL to that since we passed on the best playmakers any draft has produced in years last draft.

Honestly, I think that is going to happen alot in the next 10 years. I think what people consider "once in a generation" players are going to be coming out of these drafts left and right for the next couple years.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 01:57 PM
Just as the Texans probably miscalculated that Mario could be a big-time NFL edge rusher, the Saints probably miscalculated that Bush could be a
big-time NFL running back. Because trust me, a team just doesn't use the #2 overall on a slot receiver.
sure they do...the Saints just did it

Deuce was never planned to sit and they found a way to put two impact players in the offense and use Bush as a way to spread the defense out...and if you watch enough games you would know he isn't just a typical slot receiver.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 01:58 PM
I don't understand why you have to look at things so black and white...

Add some color to your life...

Just because he doesn't fit into your personal box and opinion of "what a RB should be", he's not valuable ?

I agree but for the money they paid him?? I suppose he got selected by the perfect team. If he were chosen around here I think there would be alot of unhappy people.

Insideop
01-16-2007, 02:02 PM
Well they powers at be have decided this morning in their mock draft that more notably Jamarcus Russel goes numero uno to Oakland Brady Quinn at numero dos and the only pick that we all care about Adrian Peterson drops to the Texans at numero ocho. I think i would be happy with this pick seeing as how our top back is Ron Dayne and DD/DW Is coming back from a pretty serious knee injury. What say the Texans fans?


I still have mixed feelings about this. On one hand getting AP would help the running game, but on the other hand I think we have too many other pressing needs on this team besides RB. I'm hoping he's gone by the time we pick, and I'm really hoping we trade down and pick up 1 or 2 extra picks.

It's a long offseason and a lot can/will happen between now and draft day. So, hold on to your hats boys and girls, I think we're in for a wild ride! :bouncey:

Lucky
01-16-2007, 02:02 PM
...I love how the Saints use him....
Of course. New Orleans has an All-Pro QB, Pro Bowl RB, and an outstanding receiving corps. So what if Reggie only averages 3.6 ypc and 8.4 ypr? He'll make a big play on occasion, and that can be the difference.

But, if Bush had put up those numbers in Houston, he'd be deemed a failure. Or excuses would be made for him. Blame the offensive line. Blame the QB. Blame the coaching staff, because they don't know how to utilize his talent. Bush couldn't be a complimentary player here. He'd have to be the man. I still think in time that he can become that. Right now, he's not.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 02:07 PM
Of course. New Orleans has an All-Pro QB, Pro Bowl RB, and an outstanding receiving corps. So what if Reggie only averages 3.6 ypc and 8.4 ypr? He'll make a big play on occasion, and that can be the difference.

But, if Bush had put up those numbers in Houston, he'd be deemed a failure. Or excuses would be made for him. Blame the offensive line. Blame the QB. Blame the coaching staff, because they don't know how to utilize his talent. Bush couldn't be a complimentary player here. He'd have to be the man. I still think in time that he can become that. Right now, he's not.The Saints started two or three rookies on offense and had a second year LT....they also have a first year QB and a rb coming off major knee surgery. Sure they are all good players but we passed on every single one of them except for Deuce (Brees was a FA last year too). The excuses why Bush did well and why he wouldn't work here is amazing. You guys are in serious denial.

nunusguy
01-16-2007, 02:08 PM
he's not valuable ?
IMO he would not be as valuable to the Texans as Maurice Drew, or Joseph
Addai, or Lawrence Maroney.
And as far as this years Draft, he would not be as valuable as Adrian Peterson, except for my aforementioned reservations about ADs unfortunate propensity for injury.

real
01-16-2007, 02:10 PM
Of course. New Orleans has an All-Pro QB, Pro Bowl RB, and an outstanding receiving corps. So what if Reggie only averages 3.6 ypc and 8.4 ypr? He'll make a big play on occasion, and that can be the difference.

But, if Bush had put up those numbers in Houston, he'd be deemed a failure. Or excuses would be made for him. Blame the offensive line. Blame the QB. Blame the coaching staff, because they don't know how to utilize his talent. Bush couldn't be a complimentary player here. He'd have to be the man. I still think in time that he can become that. Right now, he's not.

I'm going to plead the 5th...

I'm not prepared to say he can't be the man...I will say that he isn't now, but IMO, that has more to do with the talent he's surrounded by than anything else...

Think about it...He went from USC surrounded by great offensive talent to the Saints.....perfect situation for him, and honestly the hypotheticals don't matter...he is what he is, and right now he's playing his role pretty well....

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 02:11 PM
But, if Bush had put up those numbers in Houston, he'd be deemed a failure. Or excuses would be made for him. Blame the offensive line. Blame the QB. Blame the coaching staff, because they don't know how to utilize his talent. Bush couldn't be a complimentary player here. He'd have to be the man. I still think in time that he can become that. Right now, he's not.

Kind of like how we made excuses for Carr all these years. Was expected to be the man, but failed and that took us 5 years to realize (some of us still have not realized it). Everyone says once in a lifetime type of players. I think you can make that argument for Vince but not for Reggie. Steve Slaton is going to be a junior next year and if you ask me he is better than Reggie. They both have the same running style it is just that Slaton does not have nearly as much talent around him. People will probably say the same thing about Slaton (that he is once in a lifetime) but there will probably be another RB with the same style coming out of college in the couple years after that.

Overall, I dont think Reggie is worth $50 million.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 02:11 PM
IMO he would not be as valuable to the Texans as Maurice Drew, or Joseph
Addai, or Lawrence Maroney.
And as far as this years Draft, he would not be as valuable as Adrian Peterson, except for my aforementioned reservations about ADs unfortunate propensity for injury.This is the brilliant logic as to why we didn't need a QB last year. We had one! Why draft John Elway when you already have Steve DeBerg? If you don't take talent in the top of the draft where you pay the elite money...you end up with a team that looks like ours. You can get a back any year.....special talent like Bush is something you better be sure about if you pass on him. Mario isn't that special.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 02:13 PM
This is the brilliant logic as to why we didn't need a QB last year. We had one! Why draft John Elway when you already have Steve DeBerg? If you don't take talent in the top of the draft where you pay the elite money...you end up with a team that looks like ours.

I agree with you here, but I can't agree when talking about Bush. If we paid him as much as we paid Mario, after this year, I would feel like we wasted alot of that money.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 02:14 PM
I agree with you here, but I can't agree when talking about Bush. If we paid him as much as we paid Mario, after this year, I would feel like we wasted alot of that money.well if you don't like explosive offensive playmakers...I understand. Hail pendry! ROLL TIDE!

real
01-16-2007, 02:16 PM
IMO he would not be as valuable to the Texans as Maurice Drew, or Joseph
Addai, or Lawrence Maroney.
And as far as this years Draft, he would not be as valuable as Adrian Peterson, except for my aforementioned reservations about ADs unfortunate propensity for injury.

Who cares how he'd fit in with the Texans ?

You can say that about any player in any sport....

The point is he's playing his role, where he's at, and in that role he has proved to be very valuable...The Saints are a better offense when Reggie is on the field...

I'm not sure why he has to fit in with what all 32 teams are trying to do...He can only take it one team at a time...He's proven he can make the Saints better, if he ever goes to another team, we'll take it from there...

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 02:16 PM
well if you don't like explosive offensive playmakers...I understand. Hail pendry! ROLL TIDE!

Ha...I like the ones that play their position. Imagine us trying to get Reggie to work out at running back all year. Would have been gruesome to watch with a few "OH YEAAAA GOOO" moments when he breaks free.

The guy just wouldn't fit around here. Vince is a different story.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 02:18 PM
Ha...I like the ones that play their position. Imagine us trying to get Reggie to work out at running back all year. Would have been gruesome to watch with a few "OH YEAAAA GOOO" moments when he breaks free.

The guy just wouldn't fit around here. Vince is a different story.good coaches build systems around the talents of the players. System drafting has shown us that Julius Peppers didn't fit here but Jason Babin did. I like the way you think...pass the kool-aide. :yes:

nunusguy
01-16-2007, 02:18 PM
Big plays like his run last week is what wins you games
Do you mean that little 4-5 yard sprint for a TD around his right end after he tried to
go up the middle ? You don't need a first rounder to do that Vinny, dang our undrafted FA rookie Chris Taylor made virtually the same play in our last game
of the year, except that it was around the left side.

real
01-16-2007, 02:18 PM
This is the brilliant logic as to why we didn't need a QB last year. We had one! Why draft John Elway when you already have Steve DeBerg? If you don't take talent in the top of the draft where you pay the elite money...you end up with a team that looks like ours. You can get a back any year.....special talent like Bush is something you better be sure about if you pass on him. Mario isn't that special.

To me this post basically hits it on the head...You don't pass on elite talent to go with lesser talent because you're worried about how they'll fit....As a coach you should be able to utilize a guy like RB wherever he goes...

real
01-16-2007, 02:21 PM
Ha...I like the ones that play their position. Imagine us trying to get Reggie to work out at running back all year. Would have been gruesome to watch with a few "OH YEAAAA GOOO" moments when he breaks free.

The guy just wouldn't fit around here. Vince is a different story.

Why would we do that ? If we did that then the coach needs to be looked at...As a coach you should be able to properly use your talent...

Look at what N.O does with him....He'd probably be used in that manner wherever he went...

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 02:21 PM
Who cares how he'd fit in with the Texans ?

You can say that about any player in any sport....

The point is he's playing his role, where he's at, and in that role he has proved to be very valuable...The Saints are a better offense when Reggie is on the field...

I'm not sure why he has to fit in with what all 32 teams are trying to do...He can only take it one team at a time...He's proven he can make the Saints better, if he ever goes to another team, we'll take it from there...

Well in thinking about if we would have drafted him, I do...it helps me.

You can think about if they would fit or not but you can't say that all players will not fit on our team...I dont understand what your sayin here.

I agree he is playing what now has become his role. He is doing it well...but the question is if that role is worth $50 million? IMO Deuce should make the $50 million with Reggie making whatever Deuce is getting now. They got it backwards IMO, but obviously they can't just switch it. Deuce will probably get unhappy pretty soon because they can't pay both Reggie and him big money.

I think people are just thinking about how he would be on the Texans...which is fair to think about considering we passed on him in the draft and he could easily be here.

mexican_texan
01-16-2007, 02:23 PM
good coaches build systems around the talents of the players. System drafting has shown us that Julius Peppers didn't fit here but Jason Babin did. I like the way you think...pass the kool-aide. :yes:
Not with Free Agency, you have to be prepared to replace the players.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 02:23 PM
Why would we do that ? If we did that then the coach needs to be looked at...As a coach you should be able to properly use your talent...

Look at what N.O does with him....He'd probably be used in that manner wherever he went...

Dude NO has Deuce....we have who...Dayne??? If he wasn't our primary running back the fans in Houston would be going crazy at how our offensive coaching is so stupid they can't even play their best players.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 02:24 PM
Do you mean that little 4-5 yard sprint for a TD around his right end after he tried to
go up the middle ? You don't need a first rounder to do that Vinny, dang our undrafted FA rookie Chris Taylor made virtually the same play in our last game
of the year, except that it was around the left side.I guess you missed his big 25 yard run, his 14 yard run...and he did score....something we don't do much of....we are a team that STRUGGLES to score two TD's in a game and we all minimize and spin when guys like VY and Bush put the ball in the end zone.....ugh, you guys keep hating...I'll enjoy some good football by some good players.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 02:25 PM
Not with Free Agency, you have to be prepared to replace the players.
What the heck does that mean? What does it have to do with drafting well? Of course you have to replace the players...well, except Carr. 24 Teams have switched their QB since Carr took his first snap.

AustinJB
01-16-2007, 02:30 PM
Why would we do that ? If we did that then the coach needs to be looked at...As a coach you should be able to properly use your talent...

Look at what N.O does with him....He'd probably be used in that manner wherever he went...

You are probably right w/ that statement. I guess that is the main reason that I didn't want him.

Does he make plays? Sure, he makes the occasional play. But for a top 5 pick and $50 million, I want my running back to be a LT, an Earl Cambell, a Larry Johnson, a Barry Sanders type back.

Maybe that's just my personal preference, but I'd rather have this type of back....and I DEFINATELY don't think Bush will EVER be that type of workload back.

Bush is definitely valuable to the Saints offense, but I seriously doubt that he has lived up to the fans' expectations of the second coming love-child of Barry Sanders and Walter Payton. IMO, his value (a scat-back/slot receiver who is quick and can catch out of the backfield/return kicks, etc) could be matched by a 2nd or 3rd round RB on any given year.:hides:

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-16-2007, 02:31 PM
We need to wait until at least 2010 before we can decide whether or not David Carr is the answer at QB for this team. He will be playing in his second offensive scheme in 6 years. Give him time. :sarcasm:

Battle Red Flash
01-16-2007, 02:32 PM
Well they powers at be have decided this morning in their mock draft that more notably Adrian Peterson drops to the Texans at numero ocho. What say the Texans fans?

Personally, I like it. I've liked A.P. since he was a freshman. I would be just as happy to trade back for two picks. But, if we take Pete first, then lean toward a safety, corner, or LB next. Heck, Texans need everything but FB and TE now.

Sage, Andre, and Peterson. It ain't the triplets, but it would be the best we ever had.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 02:32 PM
System drafting has shown us that Julius Peppers didn't fit here but Jason Babin did.

Haha no that was just love for David Carr, It would have been nice to have chosen Julius Peppers in that draft though huh?

IMO, his value (a scat-back/slot receiver who is quick and can catch out of the backfield/return kicks, etc) could be matched by a 2nd or 3rd round RB on any given year.:hides:

And that is exactly how Maurice Jones Drew was valued. Same as DD when he came out of college.

real
01-16-2007, 02:33 PM
You can think about if they would fit or not but you can't say that all players will not fit on our team...I dont understand what your sayin here.

What I meant was that speculation is rampant in all team sports about how player A fits with team B....It is up to the respective coaches to find a system that suits his team, and the players on it....Just like N.O has done...


I agree he is playing what now has become his role. He is doing it well...but the question is if that role is worth $50 million? IMO Deuce should make the $50 million with Reggie making whatever Deuce is getting now. They got it backwards IMO, but obviously they can't just switch it. Deuce will probably get unhappy pretty soon because they can't pay both Reggie and him big money.

Again...This is something that can be debated for ever....We could say the same thing about our QB situation here in Houston...

nunusguy
01-16-2007, 02:34 PM
I guess you missed his big 25 yard run, his 14 yard run...and he did score....something we don't do much of
C'mon Vinny, get real ! Chris Taylor got 99 yards rushing (and Bush got what ? 55 yardes rushing in that game), and Taylor also got a cute little TD around the end after he bounced outside just like your west coast celebrity did, and he's an undrafted FA ! Oh, and we got another rookie back who I believe also had a 100+ yard game. He was a 6ht rounder as I recall. Now I concede that neither of our rookie backs is as "talented" as Sir Reggie, though both are more productive.

real
01-16-2007, 02:36 PM
Dude NO has Deuce....we have who...Dayne??? If he wasn't our primary running back the fans in Houston would be going crazy at how our offensive coaching is so stupid they can't even play their best players.

Yeah and since Dayne is going to be here forever.....

Like I said...He'd probably be used the same way wherever he went...

He's on the field more than Duece....And he'd be on the field more than Dayne or whoever the other back was....

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 02:37 PM
What I meant was that speculation is rampant in all team sports about how player A fits with team B....It is up to the respective coaches to find a system that suits his team, and the players on it....Just like N.O has done...

Oh, no doubt in my mind that N.O. made a great decision with their choice and it has worked out well for them...I just don't think it would be the same story if he were drafted by us.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 02:40 PM
Yeah and since Dayne is going to be here forever.....

Like I said...He'd probably be used the same way wherever he went...

He's on the field more than Duece....And he'd be on the field more than Dayne or whoever the other back was....

But what helps him out so much and is probably alot of the reason for his success in NO is that he has Deuce. Deuce bangs up the defense and usually gets a decent amount of yardage per carry (something you would expect your regular running back to do). Reggie provides a great change of pace. But we don't have anyone like Deuce to help him like N.O. does.

dirty steve
01-16-2007, 02:40 PM
C'mon Vinny, get real ! Chris Taylor got 99 yards rushing (and Bush got what ? 55 yardes rushing in that game), and Taylor also got a cute little TD around the end after he bounced outside just like your west coast celebrity did, and he's an undrafted FA ! Oh, and we got another rookie back who I believe also had a 100+ yard game. He was a 6ht rounder as I recall. Now I concede that neither of our rookie backs is as "talented" as Sir Reggie, though both are more productive.
in all fairness Cleveland had little to play for and had even less to play with. while taylor's 100-yard game is encouraging, it doesnt really give me the feeling that our RB situation is in good hands with him and ron dayne. if a playmaker like peterson is there at #8 we should be in no way thinking of passing on him because we have ron dayne and chris taylor shoring up the RB situation.

real
01-16-2007, 02:42 PM
C'mon Vinny, get real ! Chris Taylor got 99 yards rushing (and Bush got what ? 55 yardes rushing in that game), and Taylor also got a cute little TD around the end after he bounced outside just like your west coast celebrity did, and he's an undrafted FA ! Oh, and we got another rookie back who I believe also had a 100+ yard game. He was a 6ht rounder as I recall. Now I concede that neither of our rookie backs is as "talented" as Sir Reggie, though both are more productive.

You're going to have to tell me what your defenition of "productive" is...

real
01-16-2007, 02:45 PM
But what helps him out so much and is probably alot of the reason for his success in NO is that he has Deuce. Deuce bangs up the defense and usually gets a decent amount of yardage per carry (something you would expect your regular running back to do). Reggie provides a great change of pace. But we don't have anyone like Deuce to help him like N.O. does.

That's why we have free-agency, and drafts...It kind of gives you a choice on how to build your team...

You don't shy away from players with elite level talent because you are afraid they won't fit your system...Grab said player, and change your system a little to fit that player...

Vinny
01-16-2007, 02:47 PM
C'mon Vinny, get real ! Chris Taylor got 99 yards rushing (and Bush got what ? 55 yardes rushing in that game), and Taylor also got a cute little TD around the end after he bounced outside just like your west coast celebrity did, and he's an undrafted FA ! Oh, and we got another rookie back who I believe also had a 100+ yard game. He was a 6ht rounder as I recall. Now I concede that neither of our rookie backs is as "talented" as Sir Reggie, though both are more productive.You are probably right w/ that statement. I guess that is the main reason that I didn't want him.

Does he make plays? Sure, he makes the occasional play. But for a top 5 pick and $50 million, I want my running back to be a LT, an Earl Cambell, a Larry Johnson, a Barry Sanders type back. Well duh, who doesn't want a hall of fame running back?

What I find funny about his whole deal is that our fans scream for patience from our own fan base stating that it takes Carr and Mario years and years to find their games...but if Bush doesn't light up the league in year one he is horrible pick. This stuff never ceases to amaze me.

Hervoyel
01-16-2007, 02:49 PM
I would wait on making a decision on any running back until after the Indy Combines.


Why? You thinking maybe there's a workout warrior out there that the Texans might fall in love with?

It's not like it's never happened before, I'll give you that. The Texans have always loved their "measurables".

The Combine is great and you find out a lot about these young men there. I don't think it's as important as what they did on the football field though.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 02:51 PM
in all fairness Cleveland had little to play for and had even less to play with. while taylor's 100-yard game is encouraging, it doesnt really give me the feeling that our RB situation is in good hands with him and ron dayne. if a playmaker like peterson is there at #8 we should be in no way thinking of passing on him because we have ron dayne and chris taylor shoring up the RB situation.

Yea, I agree with all of this post.

That's why we have free-agency, and drafts...It kind of gives you a choice on how to build your team...

You don't shy away from players with elite level talent because you are afraid they won't fit your system...Grab said player, and change your system a little to fit that player...

That's true but I would imagine that works alot better when you already have a good running back and you draft a guy like Bush. Not so sure it would work the other way around. How much money are you going to pay this free agent after already putting so much money in Bush? Seems like that running back would have to choose our team (if we had Bush) over other teams that would probably be offering him more money. IMO Deuce won't be staying there for too long...N.O. just will not have enough money to satisfy the both of them...and even if they do that's alot of money to have invested in your running back position.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 02:52 PM
I would wait on making a decision on any running back until after the Indy Combines.Why? You thinking maybe there's a workout warrior out there that the Texans might fall in love with?
LOL lol:

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 02:55 PM
Why? You thinking maybe there's a workout warrior out there that the Texans might fall in love with?

It's not like it's never happened before, I'll give you that. The Texans have always loved their "measurables".

The Combine is great and you find out a lot about these young men there. I don't think it's as important as what they did on the football field though.

Agreed. Did you see Mario Williams in college? Teams RARELY even ran the ball to his side. Even the dominant running teams that played NC State rarely ran to his side. He dominated lineman play after play. Measurables were not all that got Mario to the #1 selection. I dont know if you are saying that Mario was the "workout warrior" but I have heard people say that about him before. I think the only reason people say that is because they saw Reggie Bush play that whole year and never saw (or rarely saw) Mario.

tulexan
01-16-2007, 03:00 PM
I agree he is playing what now has become his role. He is doing it well...but the question is if that role is worth $50 million? IMO Deuce should make the $50 million with Reggie making whatever Deuce is getting now. They got it backwards IMO, but obviously they can't just switch it. Deuce will probably get unhappy pretty soon because they can't pay both Reggie and him big money.


Deuce has an 8 year $50 million contract. He is making more than enough money.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 03:01 PM
Agreed. Did you see Mario Williams in college? Teams RARELY even ran the ball to his side. Even the dominant running teams that played NC State rarely ran to his side. He dominated lineman play after play. Measurables were not all that got Mario to the #1 selection.phuleeeeze, he padded his stats against the sisters of the poor and he wasn't even the best defender on his team. Lawson was. Mario wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardi Throphy...that's the award for the best linemen of the nation.

AustinJB
01-16-2007, 03:02 PM
Well duh, who doesn't want a hall of fame running back?

What I find funny about his whole deal is that our fans scream for patience from our own fan base stating that it takes Carr and Mario years and years to find their games...but if Bush doesn't light up the league in year one he is horrible pick. This stuff never ceases to amaze me.

Okay, I see your point w/ that...of course everyone wants a Hall of Fame RB. Maybe I didn't explain well enough.I just don't see Bush as ever being close to the type of backs that I mentioned.

I see Bush as being a Brian Westbrook type of back. I just don't think that is worth what the Saints gave him...or what we would have had to give him. Obviously the Texans FO didn't either. Judging by their talent evaluation and the great production that we got out of the draft as a whole, I trust their judgement for the time being.

Obviously, Westbrook stepped up his game in the playoffs and is a very crucial part of the Eagles offense. However, I doubt Westbrook will ever be a Hall of Fame type back and is not considered a workload back. As I mentioned in my previous post, this type of back can be successful in the right system, but that is just not my personal preference for a running back style.

IMO, Bush will never be someone that you can hand the ball to at the end of the game to eat up the clock and protect a lead. He'll make plays w/ his speed and elusiveness occasionally, but when opposing teams are behind and they stack the box to stop the run, he is not who I would want in my backfield.

Also, I know very well that there is the possibility that Bush could blossom into the greatest thing ever....one year doesn't make a career. However, what I've seen from him so far is exactly what I thought he would be.....and I just don't think it's worth the price.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 03:04 PM
If you wouldn't have a Brian Westbrook on your team then I gotta question your football IQ. Westbrook is one of the biggest reason's that the Eagles went as far as they did...he is a hell of a back. Westbrook, Marshall Faulk and Bush are the same type player for the most part.

Ole Miss Texan
01-16-2007, 03:06 PM
Funny how this turned into a Carr and Bush thread..

A)Peppers would have been cool here...but would he be the same dominant force he is now? i'd hopeso. Does that mean Carr would have gone to carolina or a different team? I think its safe to say there is a 100% chance he would have done better elsewhere...what if he did completely awesome...we'd look like fools.

B)Reggie Bush is a playmaker..but we've come to find out that he doesn't get them every game like he did in college. He'll have that 25 yd gain from nothing....then the TD run was nice. The 6 yd loss wasn't nice at all and he has a few of those trying to make those big plays. That hit on the 2nd play of the game wasn't nice ..but a hell of a hit. If bush were here in houston that would have happend proabably 8 times this season and he'd have a short career. That fumble at the end of the game wasnt nice that almost lost it for the saints...but i will admit any back could have dropped it...although it was a nice pitch.

C)I don't really understand the Vince Young pick at #1 anyways besides the fact that he was the 'hometown kid'. that shouldn't make you the number 1 overall. He wasn't even rated as the #1 QB last year so why would he be taken 1 overall. I think we would have been very criticized for that..but they could say he would sell tickets and jerseys. I'd be more worried about winning games and building a respectable franchise than selling jerseys. With that said he has outperformed everyone else. I'd take him 1 overall now after the fact but not before last year. hindsight is a wonderful thing.

D)Peterson is someone I wanted here...then I found out through the season how horrific our secondary and pass rush really are.

If Cleveland passes on Peterson there is a very big chance he falls to us. I would be happy if we took him...assuming J.Thomas is off the board and C.Johnson are as well.

What if Oakland waits on a QB or gets one in FA ..or carr.lol they take Calvin Johnson. Detroit takes Quinn? Thomas?...suddenly JaMarcus Russell may fall to us. I wouldn't mind picking him up and letting him sit a year behing Carr, Sage or Plummer.

If they are gone I wouldn't mind DLine. BUt would most likely prefer LaRon Landry. I started with him...likened up to Reggie Nelson but think LaRon would be my pick. It'd be nice to trade down a bit but would be fine if we took someone at 8. True we may be able to get a decent FS/CB later in the draft but thats also true about DT. I'd rather have the best FS and a good DT that can do his job.

What group would you rather have for the texans over the 06/07 drafts:

Reggie Bush and Gaines Adams or
Adrian Peterson and Mario Williams

I know I'd take peterson and williams. If you look at it that way..this doesnt look so bad..even at the spots they were picked.

but of course cleveland may take peterson...or we may pass on him if he gets to us .

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 03:07 PM
phuleeeeze, he padded his stats against the sisters of the poor and he wasn't even the best defender on his team. Lawson was. Mario wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardi Throphy...that's the award for the best linemen of the nation.

Are you kidding me? Mario was getting blocked by two or three defenders every game and still made plays. Lawson was just a good player taking advantage of a 1 on 1 with his lineman. Lawson was a good player (still is) but he was not the best defender on that NC State team. You wonder why NC State had 2 OTHER defensive lineman taken in the 1st round it is because MARIO allowed them to make their plays. I am not saying Lawson would not have been good if Mario was not there, but Mario had alot to do with him being so successful at NC State.

Ole Miss Texan
01-16-2007, 03:08 PM
If you wouldn't have a Brian Westbrook on your team then I gotta question your football IQ. Westbrook is one of the biggest reason's that the Eagles went as far as they did...he is a hell of a back. Westbrook, Marshall Faulk and Bush are the same type player for the most part.

Yea but I'd take both those players over Bush. I like westbrook a lot...he really was a huge part of philly this year.

AustinJB
01-16-2007, 03:10 PM
If you wouldn't have a Brian Westbrook on your team then I gotta question your football IQ. Westbrook is one of the biggest reason's that the Eagles went as far as they did...he is a hell of a back. Westbrook, Marshall Faulk and Bush are the same type player for the most part.

Ease up Vinny...no need to start questioning someone's football knowledge. Read the post; I didn't say that I would not want Brian Westbrook on my team. He is a good back; he's versatile, but not worthy of a top 5 pick IMO. I would RATHER have a power work-horse back who can still break the long run...which I think we have a shot at this year.

Also, Marshall Faulk is head and shoulders above Westbrook IMO. I wouldn't put Westbrook in that class yet.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 03:12 PM
Also, Marshall Faulk is head and shoulders above Westbrook IMO. I wouldn't put Westbrook in that class yet.

I'm not so sure about that. IMO Westbrook is the MVP of running backs this year. Easily the Eagles MVP.

HomeBred_Texan
01-16-2007, 03:13 PM
I want Landry in the 1st, and a RB in the second. Someone's lightning to Dayne's Thunder. There will still be quality backs there, and Saftey is a bigger need.

The only reason safety is a bigger need is because we have NO running game to keep the D OFF the field. Does that make any sence?

Ole Miss Texan
01-16-2007, 03:19 PM
The only reason safety is a bigger need is because we have NO running game to keep the D OFF the field. Does that make any sence?

You're exactly right. If we take Landry it'd be a huge upgrade at FS. But we wouldn't have a great running game...thus our defense would be on the field a lot and get tired.

However if we take Peterson and our running game is really good..we eat up clock, yardage and hopefully some points. Thus forcing the other team to play from behind with less time than usual..so they would have to throw the ball which isnt good for us if we still have a secondary that is pathetic.

It's a catch 22 situation

luckily we have FA and the other picks in the draft to help. Im looking forward to seeing how kubes builds up our team.

rmartin65
01-16-2007, 03:23 PM
I'm not so sure about that. IMO Westbrook is the MVP of running backs this year. Easily the Eagles MVP.

LT might be the MVP of runningbacks.

Ole Miss Texan
01-16-2007, 03:24 PM
LT might be the MVP of runningbacks.

Too bad he didn't get it this year...I was hoping for it...wait a minute!

nunusguy
01-16-2007, 03:25 PM
I for one am not saying that Reggie Bush isn't an important and valuable
member of the Saints. Do I wish we had him on our team. Of course I do.
And I enjoy watching him play - he's very talented and unpredictable which in turn makes him exciting and entertaining to watch.
My only only point is that there were other rookie backs in the 2006 Draft who were taken later and atleast one not even taken until after the first round who would be atleast as valuable to the Texans as Bush would have been.
Oh, and the first 3 picks of the 2006 Draft should have all been QBs.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 03:25 PM
LT might be the MVP of runningbacks.

Oh well other than LT, of course, what was I thinking. Westbrook is pretty close. He is consistantly 70% of their offense.

real
01-16-2007, 03:27 PM
Yea, I agree with all of this post.



That's true but I would imagine that works alot better when you already have a good running back and you draft a guy like Bush. Not so sure it would work the other way around. How much money are you going to pay this free agent after already putting so much money in Bush? Seems like that running back would have to choose our team (if we had Bush) over other teams that would probably be offering him more money. IMO Deuce won't be staying there for too long...N.O. just will not have enough money to satisfy the both of them...and even if they do that's alot of money to have invested in your running back position.

They don't neccessarily need a Duece...Just a solid guy....

Thomas Jones could be that....

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 03:35 PM
They don't neccessarily need a Duece...Just a solid guy....

Thomas Jones could be that....

Ehhhh...maybe. That would still be quite a bit of money in their running back position. Then you got to actually get the guy to say "yea i'll be that guy" and probably for less money than he could get at other places.

Do most people agree that Duece will not be there for much longer? If so, when do you think he will leave?

real
01-16-2007, 03:37 PM
Ehhhh...maybe. That would still be quite a bit of money in their running back position. Then you got to actually get the guy to say "yea i'll be that guy" and probably for less money than he could get at other places.

Semantics.


We could go through a million hypotheticals if we had the time...The main point is that it is possible for coaches to utilize talented players in different ways by altering their scheme...

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 03:41 PM
Semantics.


We could go through a million hypotheticals if we had the time...The main point is that it is possible for coaches to utilize talented players in different ways by altering their scheme...

That's true but that doesn't mean they have to. Mario is very talented and they do not have to alter their scheme at all.

mexican_texan
01-16-2007, 03:45 PM
What the heck does that mean? What does it have to do with drafting well? Of course you have to replace the players...well, except Carr. 24 Teams have switched their QB since Carr took his first snap.
Best way I can put it is Patriots against Colts. You can't build your team around a set of players anymore.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 03:45 PM
That's true but that doesn't mean they have to. Mario is very talented and they do not have to alter their scheme at all.right, he fit right in with a line that can't sack the QB.

AustinJB
01-16-2007, 03:47 PM
That's true but that doesn't mean they have to. Mario is very talented and they do not have to alter their scheme at all.

Good point.

We wouldn't have had to alter it for VY either (at least judging by what Carr did this yr)......VY is definately accurate enough to throw 5 yd dumpoffs:hides:

We wouldn't have to alter it for DeAngelo Williams, L. Moroney, Maurice Jones Drew, or Joseph Addai, or even for AP this yr, etc., etc.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 03:47 PM
Best way I can put it is Patriots against Colts. You can't build your team around a set of players anymore. That is totally ridiculous to think that the Pats and Colts haven't built teams around Peyton and Brady. A good nucleus is essential if you want to build a good football team. Individual players come and go once you build a core that you can add and subtract from.

run-david-run
01-16-2007, 03:56 PM
That is totally ridiculous to think that the Pats and Colts haven't built teams around Peyton and Brady. A good nucleus is essential if you want to build a good football team. Individual players come and go once you build a core that you can add and subtract from.

Reggie Bush isnt a core player. He is a bonus, a complementary part of the offense that adds some excitment, some big plays, and little else. You build your team around LT, Deuce McAllister, Drew Brees, Manning, Brady, etc...not a slot receiver who averages 3.6 yards a carry and will break one every now and then.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 03:56 PM
right, he fit right in with a line that can't sack the QB.

Why do you dislike Mario so much? Because of who we had to pass on to get him or just that he was not very productive in pass rushing this season or what?

Hervoyel
01-16-2007, 03:56 PM
Agreed. Did you see Mario Williams in college? Teams RARELY even ran the ball to his side. Even the dominant running teams that played NC State rarely ran to his side. He dominated lineman play after play. Measurables were not all that got Mario to the #1 selection. I dont know if you are saying that Mario was the "workout warrior" but I have heard people say that about him before. I think the only reason people say that is because they saw Reggie Bush play that whole year and never saw (or rarely saw) Mario.


Yeah I'm saying he's a workout warrior who the Texans (and many others out there) fell in love with. I'm not dogging Mario in the least with that either so please don't think I'm giving the guy a hard time. It's not like he's the only person to ever shoot up the boards after the season ended and it's not like he's a bad player. If we'd gotten him at around the same spot we took Travis Johnson the year before I'd have been tickled to death to get him. At the first overall spot I don't think he's my choice but, having said that I think you usually don't see a guy taken first overall who really merits it.

Think about the first overall picks for the past few years

2006 Mario Williams
2005 Alex Smith
2004 Eli Manning
2003 Carson Palmer
2002 David Carr
2001 Michael Vick
2000 Courtney Brown
1999 Tim Couch

There aren't a lot of guys on that list that I'd honestly say were the best player in their draft class. Mario isn't alone and it's not like anyone is trying to single him out. Whether it's the workout warrior label or just good ol' old fashioned hype the best player almost never gets picked first overall.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 03:57 PM
Reggie Bush isnt a core player. He is a bonus, a complementary part of the offense that adds some excitment, some big plays, and little else. You build your team around LT, Deuce McAllister, Drew Brees, Manning, Brady, etc...not a slot receiver who averages 3.6 yards a carry and will break one every now and then.

I agree...Bush is def a compliment and not a core player.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 03:58 PM
Yeah I'm saying he's a workout warrior who the Texans (and many others out there) fell in love with. I'm not dogging Mario in the least with that either so please don't think I'm giving the guy a hard time. It's not like he's the only person to ever shoot up the boards after the season ended and it's not like he's a bad player. If we'd gotten him at around the same spot we took Travis Johnson the year before I'd have been tickled to death to get him. At the first overall spot I don't think he's my choice but, having said that I think you usually don't see a guy taken first overall who really merits it.

Think about the first overall picks for the past few years

2006 Mario Williams
2005 Alex Smith
2004 Eli Manning
2003 Carson Palmer
2002 David Carr
2001 Michael Vick
2000 Courtney Brown
1999 Tim Couch

There aren't a lot of guys on that list that I'd honestly say were the best player in their draft class. Mario isn't alone and it's not like anyone is trying to single him out. Whether it's the workout warrior label or just good ol' old fashioned hype the best player almost never gets picked first overall.


So true.

Mario didn't even much look like the same guy he did in college. That injury really hurt his game alot this season.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 03:58 PM
phuleeeeze, he padded his stats against the sisters of the poor and he wasn't even the best defender on his team. Lawson was. Mario wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardi Throphy...that's the award for the best linemen of the nation.

Why do you dislike Mario so much? Because of who we had to pass on to get him or just that he was not very productive in pass rushing this season or what?He's the David Carr of defense right now...all potential and a flash here and there.....you don't want that out of your 60 million dollar bonus babies (this tends to give you 6-10 teams). I find it funny that you guys bust on rookies from other teams but you slobber all over Mario who has done less than the guys you guys bag on.

mexican_texan
01-16-2007, 04:01 PM
That is totally ridiculous to think that the Pats and Colts haven't built teams around Peyton and Brady. A good nucleus is essential if you want to build a good football team. Individual players come and go once you build a core that you can add and subtract from.
The Patriots don't usually re-sign key players...the Colts only do that on defense and keep everyone on offense, basically.

mexican_texan
01-16-2007, 04:01 PM
He's the David Carr of defense right now...all potential and a flash here and there.....you don't want that out of your 60 million dollar bonus babies (this tends to give you 6-10 teams). I find it funny that you guys bust on rookies from other teams but you slobber all over Mario who has done less than the guys you guys bag on.
I'll bring out the injury card.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 04:02 PM
He's the David Carr of defense right now...all potential and a flash here and there.....you don't want that out of your 60 million dollar bonus babies. I find it funny that you guys bust on rookies from other teams but you slobber all over Mario who has done less than the guys you guys bag on.

But at the same time Mario had a pretty hampering injury for half the season or so, not many of those guys were injured like Mario. Bush was alot of potential with some flash here and there as well.

Bush had something like 8 touchdowns this year and 4 of them were against San Francisco (the same team your boy Lawson plays on) in ONE game. If you want to talk about padding stats...what about this game?

old football fan
01-16-2007, 04:05 PM
I think Peterson would be a good choice. We will not get any FA running backs and that position does need to be addressed

dirty steve
01-16-2007, 04:08 PM
He's the David Carr of defense right now...all potential and a flash here and there.....you don't want that out of your 60 million dollar bonus babies (this tends to give you 6-10 teams). I find it funny that you guys bust on rookies from other teams but you slobber all over Mario who has done less than the guys you guys bag on.
i'm done with the VY and others bashing because it did nothing but get me alot of grief from the mods. many thought i was VY-hating when all i wanted was for some to live in the now, and contend with what we have now. but i digress...

i dont gush over mario but i do hope that he, along with others, can build something special on the defensive side of the ball. hopefully that something special starts with alan branch. not sure i am ready to give him carr status yet though.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 04:09 PM
The Patriots don't usually re-sign key players...the Colts only do that on defense and keep everyone on offense, basically.They don't sign guys that are going to bust their value in relation to the cap...tell Tom Brady they don't resign key guys...that's news to him.

Hervoyel
01-16-2007, 04:09 PM
So true.

Mario didn't even much look like the same guy he did in college. That injury really hurt his game alot this season.


That's really all I'm hanging my hopes on right now. I'm hoping that we saw a guy playing on one foot who's going to come back next season and look like a top ten pick.

I understand that there was a lot going on in Mario's rookie season. The whole defense was adjusting to a new scheme and the offense was too. In doing so they often left the defense in crappy positions early in the season. We've still got a lot of holes and we had plenty of injuries. Mario was hurting. I'm taking all of that into account and hoping that next year he becomes a force. I'm not counting on him becoming a superman or anything but I think he could look like a guy who clearly deserved to be picked in the top half of the first day. That would be fine by me.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 04:10 PM
i'm done with the VY and others bashing because it did nothing but get me alot of grief from the mods.
What gives you grief from the mods are perpetual, ongoing personal attacks....not an opinion on VY.

mexican_texan
01-16-2007, 04:12 PM
They don't sign guys that are going to bust their value in relation to the cap...tell Tom Brady they don't resign key guys...that's news to him.
Joe Andruzzi, Deion Branch, David Patten, David Givens, Ty Law, Troy Vincent, Willie McGinnest....

Not exactly all-pro's, but all were pretty valuable. Or at least the guys that dished out all the money thought so.

El Tejano
01-16-2007, 04:24 PM
I guess you missed his big 25 yard run, his 14 yard run...and he did score....something we don't do much of....we are a team that STRUGGLES to score two TD's in a game and we all minimize and spin when guys like VY and Bush put the ball in the end zone.....ugh, you guys keep hating...I'll enjoy some good football by some good players.

I second that statement. This is why if a guy like Adrian Peterson falls to us we have got to get him. He's not only a guy that can make good plays but he can run inside the tackles and can score from the redzone as well as 70 yards out.

dirty steve
01-16-2007, 04:26 PM
The Patriots don't usually re-sign key players...the Colts only do that on defense and keep everyone on offense, basically.
the patriots resign their core guys like brady and seymour and let positions like WR go because they know brady can make it work with a less than stellar but solid cast of characters like dillon, troy brown, daniel graham, etc. givens did nothing this year and branch was mostly a non factor after his holdout and subsequent trade to seattle.

dirty steve
01-16-2007, 04:27 PM
What gives you grief from the mods are perpetual, ongoing personal attacks....not an opinion on VY.yeah that too--but it usually happened in those type threads.

Vinny
01-16-2007, 04:31 PM
Joe Andruzzi, Deion Branch, David Patten, David Givens, Ty Law, Troy Vincent, Willie McGinnest....

Not exactly all-pro's, but all were pretty valuable. Or at least the guys that dished out all the money thought so.Andruzzi didn't have such a good year last year, Branch is a little above average, David Patton? LOL....Givens? please. Ty Law, Vincent and McGinnest were old....drafting well gives you a chance to replace them....which brings me back to my original point.

your posts have been weak lately. I thought I'd see much more from you in your FA year. Hopefully Kubiak can coach you up some next year.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 04:34 PM
Andruzzi didn't have such a good year last year, Branch is a little above average, David Patton? LOL....Givens? please. Ty Law, Vincent and McGinnest were old....drafting well gives you a chance to replace them....which brings me back to my original point.

In addition, Asante Samuel has really evolved into a great #1 corner (they must have seen that one coming). I really don't see the Patriots letting this guy go in free agency.

swoldier
01-16-2007, 05:04 PM
You know what i realized what happened to the Troy Smith hype and holler. Did that bowl game performance pretty much poo poo him in the eyes of the NFL? Because i havent heard much of anything about him lately

Vinny
01-16-2007, 05:05 PM
You know what i realized what happened to the Troy Smith hype and holler. Did that bowl game performance pretty much poo poo him in the eyes of the NFL? Because i havent heard much of anything about him latelysome media and a bunch of fans were pimping him...it's not like we know what most of the scouts were thinking or are thinking.

dirty steve
01-16-2007, 05:29 PM
In addition, Asante Samuel has really evolved into a great #1 corner (they must have seen that one coming). I really don't see the Patriots letting this guy go in free agency.they let defensive backfield stalwarts law and milloy go, so it wouldnt surprise me if samuel didnt come back.

TexansSeminole
01-16-2007, 10:57 PM
they let defensive backfield stalwarts law and milloy go, so it wouldnt surprise me if samuel didnt come back.

But they had Samuel on the up and coming. They dont have anyone on the up and coming right now (to my knowledge).

Vinny
01-19-2007, 06:31 PM
Please cancel my account here please. Need to stop stressing over peoples stupid comments.
I didn't bump this thread...Avenged Sevenfold Texan did.

...in case anyone was wondering...I just logged on and he contacted me to delete his account (his pm above). This was totally unsolicited (dude has had a bunch of different accounts anyway).

threetoedpete
01-20-2007, 01:00 AM
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=5972021


All I want to know vinny is when you guys are going to come out from under the VY/Bush cloud ? Ten months now, they're not on our team. Argueing about them wether they should have, could have, sopposed have, is on the same par as argueing how many angeles can dance on the head of the pin. Redundant. And meaningless.

Hulk75
01-20-2007, 09:07 AM
I want Landry in the 1st, and a RB in the second. Someone's lightning to Dayne's Thunder. There will still be quality backs there, and Saftey is a bigger need.

About this guy, he is built like a train and will come down and hit you, BUT this guy gets so lost when the ball is in the air, he and PBuc almost look the same when the ball is in the air, he will bite on PA too much and that is not good when we got Peyton twice a year. 1st rd guy yea but he scares me in pass coverage, I will give him this though he is better then Roy Williams at Coverage, atleast LaRon does not get totally burnt he is around the ball.

ArlingtonTexan
01-20-2007, 09:15 AM
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=5972021


All I want to know vinny is when you guys are going to come out from under the VY/Bush cloud ? Ten months now, they're not on our team. Argueing about them wether they should have, could have, sopposed have, is on the same par as argueing how many angeles can dance on the head of the pin. Redundant. And meaningless.

What you say is true, but until the Texans provide a product that is interesting and winning this is going to continue (and maybe not stop then). You may want to stay away from the boards if the Saints go to the Superbowl especially if Bush makes anything close to a significant play to help them get there.

threetoedpete
01-20-2007, 09:32 AM
You're just as guilty as Vinny then. I'm supporting the choice. I'm not banging on the decsion. Therefore I should leave because ? Y'all have been brooding on this for a while now. I lot of people on the mb need to grow up. The tantrums are growing weary. I don't have a problem with RB. I gotta a problem with non Texans fans banging on my team. On my board.

ArlingtonTexan
01-20-2007, 09:51 AM
You're just as guilty as Vinny then. I'm supporting the choice. I'm not banging on the decsion. Therefore I should leave because ? Y'all have been brooding on this for a while now. I lot of people on the mb need to grow up. The tantrums are growing weary. I don't have a problem with RB. I gotta a problem with non Texans fans banging on my team. On my board.


Not sure, what I am exactly gulity of, but i am merely stating you are going to get the Bush/Young/CArr/Mario talk on this board until the Texans provide something on the field. The best way to combat the talk is not to participate in those particular threads because they are predictable. I can't control what others post, but I can control what I participate in. I don't seriously mean find another MB, but understand the environment.

threetoedpete
01-20-2007, 10:05 AM
They did this season. They won two more games than they should have. Argueing about should of, could of, and might have beens is just licking the spilled milk up off the floor. Even if it is true, which I do not conceed ..yet, what is the point ? Everyone else goes running off the cliff, does that mean I should follow ? I don't think so. I'm happy. Just tring to point out those who are not are grieving for no reason. Be stud QBs and RBs in ervery draft. Mario prospect comes around once every blue moon. He might not make it. Might be a bust. So what ? Milk is on the floor, lick it if you want I'll pass. No amount of belly aching is going to unspill it.

ArlingtonTexan
01-20-2007, 10:23 AM
They did this season. They won two more games than they should have. Argueing about should of, could of, and might have beens is just licking the spilled milk up off the floor. Even if it is true, which I do not conceed ..yet, what is the point ? Everyone else goes running off the cliff, does that mean I should follow ? I don't think so. I'm happy. Just tring to point out those who are not are grieving for no reason. Be stud QBs and RBs in ervery draft. Mario prospect comes around once every blue moon. He might not make it. Might be a bust. So what ? Milk is on the floor, lick it if you want I'll pass. No amount of belly aching is going to unspill it.

Right now, you are belly-aching about other people's belly-aching. So what does that accomplish? Seriously, there is a reason why I have one of the lowest post totals among the mods. I refuse to :brickwall talking about the same stuff we have for the last year plus.

As for the season, the Texans went from the worst team in the league to another bad team. Improvement yes...quality football no.

threetoedpete
01-20-2007, 10:31 AM
So let me get your logic down here. I'm belly aching becuase the board is negitive beyound belief. Crying about something that should of been let go long ago. I should follow your example and...basically give up ? There is acording to you, no hope ? Good Grief. And if you check me...I've refraind from them too.

Vinny
01-20-2007, 11:38 AM
You're just as guilty as Vinny then. I'm supporting the choice. I'm not banging on the decsion. Therefore I should leave because ? Y'all have been brooding on this for a while now. I lot of people on the mb need to grow up. The tantrums are growing weary. I don't have a problem with RB. I gotta a problem with non Texans fans banging on my team. On my board.Guilty of giving my honest opinion? good gravy Pete...I've met you in person...I'm just not fake and most of you who haven't met me I'd expect this crap from...but you have sat with me during camp..... I just don't lie about what I honestly think just to be popular. If you want me to be a homer it's never going to happen.

ArlingtonTexan
01-20-2007, 12:01 PM
So let me get your logic down here. I'm belly aching becuase the board is negitive beyound belief. Crying about something that should of been let go long ago. I should follow your example and...basically give up ? There is acording to you, no hope ? Good Grief. And if you check me...I've refraind from them too.

Yes, give up trying to change the minds of people who minds are not going to be changed. Does wonders for your perception of this board.

Fighting the fight for sake of fighting the fight does not make you a good fan, this a better message, or those guys go away.

threetoedpete
01-20-2007, 12:07 PM
Guilty of giving my honest opinion? good gravy Pete...I've met you in person...I'm just not fake and most of you who haven't met me I'd expect this crap from...but you have sat with me during camp..... I just don't lie about what I honestly think just to be popular. If you want me to be a homer it's never going to happen.

and I haven't called you out Vinny. At all. You think it was a bad move, I haven't banged on your opinion at all. Just tring to point stuff out. I like you alot.

TexansSeminole
01-20-2007, 02:19 PM
About this guy, he is built like a train and will come down and hit you, BUT this guy gets so lost when the ball is in the air, he and PBuc almost look the same when the ball is in the air, he will bite on PA too much and that is not good when we got Peyton twice a year. 1st rd guy yea but he scares me in pass coverage, I will give him this though he is better then Roy Williams at Coverage, atleast LaRon does not get totally burnt he is around the ball.

I actually think he is pretty damn good in coverage....I don't really know why you would be scared.

Hulk75
01-21-2007, 10:13 PM
I actually think he is pretty damn good in coverage....I don't really know why you would be scared.

From some of the plays they showed on NFL network and what I have seen, when the ball is in the air he has trouble, like I said he can cover and is not beat, HE just needs to work on playing the ball instincts and not geting lost while the ball is in the air.

SF49erFaithful
01-21-2007, 11:24 PM
From some of the plays they showed on NFL network and what I have seen, when the ball is in the air he has trouble, like I said he can cover and is not beat, HE just needs to work on playing the ball instincts and not geting lost while the ball is in the air.

A Houston fan living in Santa Cruz? I live in Santa Cruz too. :banana:

DatTexBoy
01-23-2007, 01:16 AM
Well we were going to draft a RB with the first pick last year until Bush's agent became difficult and the housing scandal broke.

Plus like Hoth-Boy said, we were going to trade back into the first round to draft DeAngelo Williams before the Bills offered a better deal.

I remember that and was like wow! I wish that would have went down!