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beerlover
01-15-2007, 12:10 PM
BEERLOVERS 07 NFL POST UNDERCLASSMAN DECLARATION MOCK DRAFT

1. OAKLAND - Calvin Johnson, WR Georgia Tech. 6040 228 4.55

2. DETROIT - Brady Quinn, QB Notre Dame. 6040 228 4.70

3. CLEVELAND - Adrian Peterson, RB Oklahoma. 6020 218 4.47

4. TAMPA BAY - Jamaal Anderson, DE Arkansas. 6060 274 4.85

5. ARIZONA - Joe Thomas, OT Wisconsin. 6070 310 5.06

6. WASHINGTON - Alan Branch, DT Michigan. 6060 330 5.38

7. MINNESOTA - JaMarcus Russell, QB LSU. 6050 252 4.56

8. HOUSTON - Reggie Nelson, S Florida. 6000 195 4.45

9. MIAMI - Dwayne Jarrett, WR USC. 6050 210 4.47

10. ATLANTA - Marshawn Lynch, RB CAL. 5011 220 4.46

11. SAN FRANCISCO - Gaines Adams, DE Clemson. 6050 260 4.72

12. BUFFALO - Leon Hall, CB Michigan. 5011 195 4.48

13. ST. LOUIS - Jarvis Moss, DE Florida. 6060 252 4.63

14. CAROLINA - LaRon Landry, S LSU. 6020 205 4.48

15. PITTSBURGH - Darrelle Revis, CB Pittsburgh. 6000 190 4.54

16. GREEN BAY - Ted Ginn Jr., WR/KR Ohio State. 6000 180 4.35

17. JACKSONVILLE - Brandon Meriweather, FS Miami. 6000 195 4.49

18. CINCINNATI - Patrick Willis, MLB Mississippi. 6020 232 4.60

19. TENNESSEE - Michael Griffin, SS Texas. 6010 205 4.48

20. N.Y. GIANTS - A.J. Davis, CB North Carolina State. 5010 188 4.44

21. DENVER - Amobi Okoye, DT Louisville. 6020 315 5.03

22. DALLAS - Sidney Rice, WR South Carolina. 6040 205 4.55

23. KANSAS CITY - Charles Johnson, DE Georgia. 6020 272 4.77

24. NEW ENGLAND - Paul Posluszny, OLB Penn State. 6020 230 4.58

25. N.Y. JETS - Tank Tyler, DT North Carolina State. 6020 310 5.20

26. PHILADELPHIA - Robert Meachem, WR Tennessee. 6030 210 4.48

27. NEW ORLEANS - Quentin Moses, DE Georgia. 6050 252 4.75

28. INDIANAPOLIS - Daymeion Hughes, CB CAL. 6000 188 4.54

29. BALTIMORE - Levi Brown, OT Penn State. 6040 325 5.28

30. SAN DIEGO - Justin Blalock, OT Texas. 6040 330 5.25

31. NEW ENGLAND - Aaron Ross, CB Texas. 6000 192 4.46

32. CHICAGO - Zach Miller, TE Arizona State. 6050 260 4.79


* measureables provided by NFL Draft Scout-

* bottom of actual draft order yet to be determined-

*all picks subject to change-

:hides:

threetoedpete
01-15-2007, 12:25 PM
Thanks beerlover I was getting bored.

demecoryans#1fan
01-15-2007, 01:09 PM
Russel wont drop to #7 after his stellar performance against Dame and his 6'6" stature and I've heard some talk about A. Peterson will drop because of his durability issues.
:hides:

Ginn won't drop to Green Bay either.

Texian
01-15-2007, 01:15 PM
Under this scenario, based on Kubiak's penchant to improve the pass rush I say the Texans select Gaines Adams. Nice Mock, I do like all the stats you added.

YoungTexanFan
01-15-2007, 01:30 PM
I think the stats are off, but it's a nice touch. CJ is 6'6 and he isn't slower than Jarrett. CJ will run a 4.4

nunusguy
01-15-2007, 01:36 PM
I went along with much of your mock Beerlover until I got to your idea for
the Texans #8 pick. Problem is you left atleast 10 guys on your own Board I'd have chosen over Reggie Nelson. Just my own bias against the idea of using such a high pick on a safety.

kastofsna
01-15-2007, 01:38 PM
that's pretty good overall....i'd rather miami draft ted ginn though, and i think they would.

Ole Miss Texan
01-15-2007, 02:39 PM
I went along with much of your mock Beerlover until I got to your idea for
the Texans #8 pick. Problem is you left atleast 10 guys on your own Board I'd have chosen over Reggie Nelson. Just my own bias against the idea of using such a high pick on a safety.

I'd be interested on what ten players you think would be worthy of a #8 pick if not a safety?

beerlover
01-15-2007, 05:11 PM
I think the stats are off, but it's a nice touch. CJ is 6'6 and he isn't slower than Jarrett. CJ will run a 4.4

the stats are posted directly from one of the draft services I use "NFL Draft Scout" I'm sure they are out of date & will be revised post combine but for now I just wanted to get some ball park figures out there for everyone to get a better idea (for those who don't know) in general how big & fast they are (*as posted at the bottom of the page).

beerlover
01-15-2007, 05:23 PM
I went along with much of your mock Beerlover until I got to your idea for
the Texans #8 pick. Problem is you left atleast 10 guys on your own Board I'd have chosen over Reggie Nelson. Just my own bias against the idea of using such a high pick on a safety.

well I'm not pushing him one way or another, there are several other players I hope the Texans take a look at, however his upside is easily worth a top 10 rating/pick. We'll see after his ProDay workout before the draft just how high his stock does climb, he has the potential to be one of the top Safetys in the National Football League & high priority for the Texans. others considered where CB Leon Hall, the other FS LeRon Landry, a playmaker @ RB Marshawn Lynch, plus a pair of DE's Gaines Adams & Jarvis Moss, thats 5 right there I considered who where still on the board when the Texans selected.

beerlover
01-15-2007, 05:32 PM
that's pretty good overall....i'd rather miami draft ted ginn though, and i think they would.

I give Jarrett the edge over Ginn because of his route execution, understands how to sit down in the seams & come back to his QB, has excellent technique with soft hands, takes it over the middle in traffic, is a weapon in the red zone with his height (5 inches taller than Ginn) & has been playing in a Pro Style system @ USC under Pete Carrol. but thats just my opinion, I can certainly respect yours :shades:

YoungTexanFan
01-15-2007, 05:49 PM
well I'm not pushing him one way or another, there are several other players I hope the Texans take a look at, however his upside is easily worth a top 10 rating/pick. We'll see after his ProDay workout before the draft just how high his stock does climb, he has the potential to be one of the top Safetys in the National Football League & high priority for the Texans. others considered where CB Leon Hall, the other FS LeRon Landry, a playmaker @ RB Marshawn Lynch, plus a pair of DE's Gaines Adams & Jarvis Moss, thats 5 right there I considered who where still on the board when the Texans selected.

I think Moss could slide to the second because of the healthy stock of DE's that will go ahead of him. Moss is best known for his ability to rush the passer as opposed to being complete. I would look at him in the second. I don't think he will go top half of first, but he should run about a 4.7 at his proday. Moss is an edge rusher with good enough size and pedigrey to warrent a look in the second.

nunusguy
01-15-2007, 08:18 PM
I'd be interested on what ten players you think would be worthy of a #8 pick if not a safety?
I count 'bout half dozen Dlineman and 5 or 6 corners alone taken after the
Texans #8 pick on this particular mock, and like I said I just don't rate the safety position very high unless its an extraordinary playmaker.

YoungTexanFan
01-15-2007, 08:54 PM
I count 'bout half dozen Dlineman and 5 or 6 corners alone taken after the
Texans #8 pick on this particular mock, and like I said I just don't rate the safety position very high unless its an extraordinary playmaker.

Nelson is that type of playmaker.

vtech9
01-15-2007, 08:54 PM
from what I have seen in previous drafts and from what I have heard from NFL coaches and GM's, Safeties are not often chosen that high unless they are believed to be game changers. The reason I have heard mentioned most often is that good safeties can often be found in the 4th-6th rounds.

YoungTexanFan
01-15-2007, 08:56 PM
from what I have seen in previous drafts and from what I have heard from NFL coaches and GM's, Safeties are not often chosen that high unless they are believed to be game changers. The reason I have heard mentioned most often is that good safeties can often be found in the 4th-6th rounds.

Thus is the difference between CC Brown good and Ed Reed good.

vtech9
01-15-2007, 09:12 PM
Thus is the difference between CC Brown good and Ed Reed good.

and there is my argument in a bag....as good as Reed was in college (he had 44 tackles, 3 fumble recoveries, 18 pass deflections and 9 interceptions and a blocked punt during his senior year and was named National Defensive Player of the Year by Football News), he still lasted until the 24th pick in the 1st round. He was a standout, a "playmaker", a "game changer", but he still lasted until the last 1/4 of the 1st round.

Now, can you honestly say that there is a safety in the upcoming draft that is BETTER than Ed Reed? If Ed Reed was only worth the 24th pick, what safety in this years draft would be worth the 8th pick?

beerlover
01-15-2007, 09:14 PM
I think Moss could slide to the second because of the healthy stock of DE's that will go ahead of him. Moss is best known for his ability to rush the passer as opposed to being complete. I would look at him in the second. I don't think he will go top half of first, but he should run about a 4.7 at his proday. Moss is an edge rusher with good enough size and pedigrey to warrent a look in the second.

you could be right, but what I've seen watching him play is a explosive, upfield runner with a high motor & very athletic. Jarvis would provide speed off the edge w/Leonard Little holding down the strong side in run run support. Also thought of taking someone in the middle of the defensive line to push the pocket with the ability to rush the passer (Amobi Okoye).

there are always teams that reach come draft day, maybe this is just one example :)

Bubbajwp
01-15-2007, 09:21 PM
and there is my argument in a bag....as good as Reed was in college (he had 44 tackles, 3 fumble recoveries, 18 pass deflections and 9 interceptions and a blocked punt during his senior year and was named National Defensive Player of the Year by Football News), he still lasted until the 24th pick in the 1st round. He was a standout, a "playmaker", a "game changer", but he still lasted until the last 1/4 of the 1st round.

Now, can you honestly say that there is a safety in the upcoming draft that is BETTER than Ed Reed? If Ed Reed was only worth the 24th pick, what safety in this years draft would be worth the 8th pick?

Well if we could see the future Ed Reed would have been the first pick in the draft. So if we could get a Ed Reed type FS with the 8th pick with out a doubt go for it.

vtech9
01-15-2007, 09:33 PM
Well if we could see the future Ed Reed would have been the first pick in the draft. So if we could get a Ed Reed type FS with the 8th pick with out a doubt go for it.

I agree...I don't follow college ball that much so I don't know if there is a safety out there that is that good. If there is, get him. My whole point with my original post was merely to state that the argument I had heard most often from NFL coaches and GM's was that good safeties could be had later in the draft, so they weren't considered high priority.

jjcorvallis
01-15-2007, 09:49 PM
With Gaines Adams still on the board I think Gary Kubiak will pick Gaines Adams.

Do you really think CJ will go #1? He's been saying that he doesn't want to go to Oakland Raiders. Jamarcus Russell is obviously the best pick for the Raiders but I think Al Davis will draft AP. there is a big possibilty that troy smith will fall to 2nd round. other than that nice mock.

MorKnolle
01-15-2007, 10:38 PM
BEERLOVERS 07 NFL POST UNDERCLASSMAN DECLARATION MOCK DRAFT

1. OAKLAND - Calvin Johnson, WR Georgia Tech. 6040 228 4.55

2. DETROIT - Brady Quinn, QB Notre Dame. 6040 228 4.70

3. CLEVELAND - Adrian Peterson, RB Oklahoma. 6020 218 4.47

4. TAMPA BAY - Jamaal Anderson, DE Arkansas. 6060 274 4.85

5. ARIZONA - Joe Thomas, OT Wisconsin. 6070 310 5.06

6. WASHINGTON - Alan Branch, DT Michigan. 6060 330 5.38

7. MINNESOTA - JaMarcus Russell, QB LSU. 6050 252 4.56 Don't see this happening, they just spent a 2nd rounder on Tarvaris Jackson last year. I'd also be surprised if he runs anywhere near that fast.

8. HOUSTON - Reggie Nelson, S Florida. 6000 195 4.45 Still would prefer Leon Hall or LaRon Landry, I don't want someone that just sits back in centerfield to ballhawk, I'd prefer a more versatile FS. At this point I think Landry is the better allround player and we'd take him if we go FS.

9. MIAMI - Dwayne Jarrett, WR USC. 6050 210 4.47

10. ATLANTA - Marshawn Lynch, RB CAL. 5011 220 4.46 Not sure I see this either. Dunn is getting older but he is still effective and Norwood is a developing potential stud too. Interesting idea but I think for the 1st round they turn elsewhere.

11. SAN FRANCISCO - Gaines Adams, DE Clemson. 6050 260 4.72

12. BUFFALO - Leon Hall, CB Michigan. 5011 195 4.48

13. ST. LOUIS - Jarvis Moss, DE Florida. 6060 252 4.63

14. CAROLINA - LaRon Landry, S LSU. 6020 205 4.48

15. PITTSBURGH - Darrelle Revis, CB Pittsburgh. 6000 190 4.54

16. GREEN BAY - Ted Ginn Jr., WR/KR Ohio State. 6000 180 4.35

17. JACKSONVILLE - Brandon Meriweather, FS Miami. 6000 195 4.49 I hope this doesn't happen. I'm hoping he falls to our 2nd and I'd hate to see him in our division.

18. CINCINNATI - Patrick Willis, MLB Mississippi. 6020 232 4.60

19. TENNESSEE - Michael Griffin, SS Texas. 6010 205 4.48

20. N.Y. GIANTS - A.J. Davis, CB North Carolina State. 5010 188 4.44

21. DENVER - Amobi Okoye, DT Louisville. 6020 315 5.03

22. DALLAS - Sidney Rice, WR South Carolina. 6040 205 4.55

23. KANSAS CITY - Charles Johnson, DE Georgia. 6020 272 4.77 Not sure I see this with Tamba Hali and Jared Allen on the roster.

24. NEW ENGLAND - Paul Posluszny, OLB Penn State. 6020 230 4.58 I don't think he's a particularly good fit, maybe as an ILB for them but still not sure I see it.

25. N.Y. JETS - Tank Tyler, DT North Carolina State. 6020 310 5.20

26. PHILADELPHIA - Robert Meachem, WR Tennessee. 6030 210 4.48

27. NEW ORLEANS - Quentin Moses, DE Georgia. 6050 252 4.75

28. INDIANAPOLIS - Daymeion Hughes, CB CAL. 6000 188 4.54

29. BALTIMORE - Levi Brown, OT Penn State. 6040 325 5.28

30. SAN DIEGO - Justin Blalock, OT Texas. 6040 330 5.25 I don't think OT is a particularly big need for them.

31. NEW ENGLAND - Aaron Ross, CB Texas. 6000 192 4.46

32. CHICAGO - Zach Miller, TE Arizona State. 6050 260 4.79


* measureables provided by NFL Draft Scout-

* bottom of actual draft order yet to be determined-

*all picks subject to change-

:hides:

I left my comments in red. Overall it's a pretty solid effort,and most of your picks are pretty good, but I think a lot of these guys will end up not going in the 1st round. You seem to have a lot more skill position players than will end up going that high, although most mocks do at this time of the year.

YoungTexanFan
01-15-2007, 10:45 PM
and there is my argument in a bag....as good as Reed was in college (he had 44 tackles, 3 fumble recoveries, 18 pass deflections and 9 interceptions and a blocked punt during his senior year and was named National Defensive Player of the Year by Football News), he still lasted until the 24th pick in the 1st round. He was a standout, a "playmaker", a "game changer", but he still lasted until the last 1/4 of the 1st round.

Now, can you honestly say that there is a safety in the upcoming draft that is BETTER than Ed Reed? If Ed Reed was only worth the 24th pick, what safety in this years draft would be worth the 8th pick?

A FS is the leader of the defensive unit. ST went #5 overall and deserved his selection. Reed went first round and deserved higher. While it is possible that 32 GM's are dumb enough to pass on a Ko Simpson for 3 rounds, it doesn't happen often. The ST's and Ed Reeds of the league go first round. With their domminant play, FS is now a premier position and requires a top pick for a top talent. Next year we will see Kenny Phillips who will be better than Nelson or any other FS this year, but we can't wait a year. Nelson warrents a top 15 pick, and is not a reach at 8. He is that good. It's that simple.

MorKnolle
01-15-2007, 11:09 PM
A FS is the leader of the defensive unit. ST went #5 overall and deserved his selection. Reed went first round and deserved higher. While it is possible that 32 GM's are dumb enough to pass on a Ko Simpson for 3 rounds, it doesn't happen often. The ST's and Ed Reeds of the league go first round. With their domminant play, FS is now a premier position and requires a top pick for a top talent. Next year we will see Kenny Phillips who will be better than Nelson or any other FS this year, but we can't wait a year. Nelson warrents a top 15 pick, and is not a reach at 8. He is that good. It's that simple.

I agree with this whole post other than I still don't know if I consider Nelson that good. The same can be said about many different positions on the football field, unfortunately we can only have one 1st round draft pick and can't realistically stockpile top end talent at every single position, so we just have to take the player that we feel is the best overall player at each pick. At this point I don't think I'd consider Nelson the BPA at the #8 pick, but I'll see how he works out at the Combine and such, and either way my opinions on these guys only impact me and don't matter to what is going to end up happening anyways.

vtech9
01-15-2007, 11:21 PM
Well if we could see the future Ed Reed would have been the first pick in the draft. So if we could get a Ed Reed type FS with the 8th pick with out a doubt go for it.

A FS is the leader of the defensive unit. ST went #5 overall and deserved his selection. Reed went first round and deserved higher. While it is possible that 32 GM's are dumb enough to pass on a Ko Simpson for 3 rounds, it doesn't happen often. The ST's and Ed Reeds of the league go first round. With their domminant play, FS is now a premier position and requires a top pick for a top talent. Next year we will see Kenny Phillips who will be better than Nelson or any other FS this year, but we can't wait a year. Nelson warrents a top 15 pick, and is not a reach at 8. He is that good. It's that simple.

If he is that good, then by all means, take him, but I have serious doubts that he is truly worth the 8th overall pick. Is he that much better than Landry (which I have heard mentioned as the top FS by just about everyone) and the rest of the FS's? A top 15 pick is different than a top 8 pick.

Let me ask you a question, do you think either Landry or Nelson will already be gone by the time we pick? If the the Texans are set on getting a FS, and both of them are still available, I think the Texans would try to trade down a few spots to get one of them. I just don't see the Texans taking one of them with the 8th pick if both are still available.

MorKnolle
01-15-2007, 11:39 PM
If he is that good, then by all means, take him, but I have serious doubts that he is truly worth the 8th overall pick. Is he that much better than Landry (which I have heard mentioned as the top FS by just about everyone) and the rest of the FS's? A top 15 pick is different than a top 8 pick.

Let me ask you a question, do you think either Landry or Nelson will already be gone by the time we pick? If the the Texans are set on getting a FS, and both of them are still available, I think the Texans would try to trade down a few spots to get one of them. I just don't see the Texans taking one of them with the 8th pick if both are still available.

I'll jump in and give my opinion on Nelson vs. Landry. Reggie Nelson is probably a little more athletic than Landry. All I've seen out of Nelson in games is playing a deep middle zone and ball hawking for long passes. He's very good at ballhawking (I wouldn't say he's on Ed Reed's level at all in that regard, but he's a similar type of player) and has good ball skills. However, I rarely see him try to come up and help in run support, maybe that's part of their defensive scheme that he is supposed to stay back and be the last line of defense, maybe he just doesn't get in there, I don't know that. All I know is that I rarely see him come up and make plays in the box, which I'd like to see our FS do. LaRon Landry (and Brandon Meriweather for that matter) are up in the box a lot more, in fact both had a game or two this season where they primarily played up in the box (Landry against Arkansas to help stop their running attack, Meriweather against I think it was Lousiville for much of the game) and both were solid in that role. I also don't have a very good feel for Nelson's man to man coverage skills since all he does is sit in a deep zone, whereas Landry has played some man coverage and Meriweather has played a lot of it. In addition, Meriweather is athletic enough to play CB and did so at times this year (against Georgia Tech he lined up at CB against Calvin Johnson for the vast majority of the game and played quite well against him). All of them are pretty solid tacklers, none particularly lay a lot of big hits. Nelson and Landry both layed a few but almost always on defenseless WRs that were jumping for a catch, never really in the open field at all. Michael Griffin makes a ton of plays up in the box, he is a solid tackler and a hard hitter. He plays more of a SS role but he played a lot of deep zone yet was very quick to come up and help out in the box, plus he is athletic enough that he could play FS at the next level. He is not quite as good in coverage as the others, but he is a much more willing tackler.

Overall, Landry, Nelson, Griffin, and Meriweather are all very good prospects, it kind of depends on what role you are looking for. If you are looking for someone to just sit back in a deep zone and ballhawk then I'd have to say Nelson is your best option. If you are looking for the most solid, polished, and probably most talented overall FS then Landry is your guy. If you're looking for the best athlete and most versatile player then Meriweather is your guy. If you're looking for someone to help out a lot in run support in addition to being able to cover some people downfield then Griffin is probably your top guy. My personal preference is more of the Landry/Meriweather role. Meriweather is probably my personal favorite in terms of his style of play even though I think Landry is more talented overall. Landry and Nelson will most likely be the top two taken. Meriweather could be the 3rd and be right in there with them other than some concerns about his behavior, but all four are talented enough they could go in the 1st round.

vtech9
01-15-2007, 11:55 PM
I'll jump in and give my opinion on Nelson vs. Landry. Reggie Nelson is probably a little more athletic than Landry. All I've seen out of Nelson in games is playing a deep middle zone and ball hawking for long passes. He's very good at ballhawking (I wouldn't say he's on Ed Reed's level at all in that regard, but he's a similar type of player) and has good ball skills. However, I rarely see him try to come up and help in run support, maybe that's part of their defensive scheme that he is supposed to stay back and be the last line of defense, maybe he just doesn't get in there, I don't know that. All I know is that I rarely see him come up and make plays in the box, which I'd like to see our FS do. LaRon Landry (and Brandon Meriweather for that matter) are up in the box a lot more, in fact both had a game or two this season where they primarily played up in the box (Landry against Arkansas to help stop their running attack, Meriweather against I think it was Lousiville for much of the game) and both were solid in that role. I also don't have a very good feel for Nelson's man to man coverage skills since all he does is sit in a deep zone, whereas Landry has played some man coverage and Meriweather has played a lot of it. In addition, Meriweather is athletic enough to play CB and did so at times this year (against Georgia Tech he lined up at CB against Calvin Johnson for the vast majority of the game and played quite well against him). All of them are pretty solid tacklers, none particularly lay a lot of big hits. Nelson and Landry both layed a few but almost always on defenseless WRs that were jumping for a catch, never really in the open field at all. Michael Griffin makes a ton of plays up in the box, he is a solid tackler and a hard hitter. He plays more of a SS role but he played a lot of deep zone yet was very quick to come up and help out in the box, plus he is athletic enough that he could play FS at the next level. He is not quite as good in coverage as the others, but he is a much more willing tackler.

Overall, Landry, Nelson, Griffin, and Meriweather are all very good prospects, it kind of depends on what role you are looking for. If you are looking for someone to just sit back in a deep zone and ballhawk then I'd have to say Nelson is your best option. If you are looking for the most solid, polished, and probably most talented overall FS then Landry is your guy. If you're looking for the best athlete and most versatile player then Meriweather is your guy. If you're looking for someone to help out a lot in run support in addition to being able to cover some people downfield then Griffin is probably your top guy. My personal preference is more of the Landry/Meriweather role. Meriweather is probably my personal favorite in terms of his style of play even though I think Landry is more talented overall. Landry and Nelson will most likely be the top two taken. Meriweather could be the 3rd and be right in there with them other than some concerns about his behavior, but all four are talented enough they could go in the 1st round.

thanks Mork....Out of those 4, from what you wrote, IMO, Nelson would be the least likely to fit for our defense. It sounds like either of the other three would work for us. Now for my questions...Would one of them be available at our 2nd round pick? Is one of them head and shoulders better than the other three? Is that one so much better than the others to warrant taking him with the 8th overall pick if we could get one of the others with our 2nd round pick? What about the Safety from Texas that won the Thorpe award? Where does he rank?

Coach C.
01-16-2007, 06:20 AM
thanks Mork....Out of those 4, from what you wrote, IMO, Nelson would be the least likely to fit for our defense. It sounds like either of the other three would work for us. Now for my questions...Would one of them be available at our 2nd round pick? Is one of them head and shoulders better than the other three? Is that one so much better than the others to warrant taking him with the 8th overall pick if we could get one of the others with our 2nd round pick? What about the Safety from Texas that won the Thorpe award? Where does he rank?

Vtech I will jump in and answer your Qs. Yes, it is possible that Griffin and Meriweather could be available at our 2nd round pick. No, none of the safeties in this years draft out of the ones Mork mentioned are head and shoulders above each other. Like he said Landry and Nelson will likely be the first two picked and it will depend on preference and scheme. I dont think any of the safeties warrant a top 10 pick, but if that is all that is left on the Texans board they may pull the trigger. Aaron Ross won the Thorpe award and he is a corner, and not an overly impressive one. He should not even be picked before the end of the 2nd.

Bubbajwp
01-16-2007, 06:42 AM
I'll jump in and give my opinion on Nelson vs. Landry. Reggie Nelson is probably a little more athletic than Landry. All I've seen out of Nelson in games is playing a deep middle zone and ball hawking for long passes. He's very good at ballhawking (I wouldn't say he's on Ed Reed's level at all in that regard, but he's a similar type of player) and has good ball skills. However, I rarely see him try to come up and help in run support, maybe that's part of their defensive scheme that he is supposed to stay back and be the last line of defense, maybe he just doesn't get in there, I don't know that. All I know is that I rarely see him come up and make plays in the box, which I'd like to see our FS do.

Around Florida Reggie Nelson is known as the Eraser. He is the last line of defense for the gators and he is suppose to erase all of the defenses mistakes. They use him like this because they started two new CB's this year. Last year he was known as the predator. His job was to get after the QB and the Ball Carrier. He is very good at run support and blitzing. You just didnt see it this year because thats not what his coaches wanted him to do.

beerlover
01-16-2007, 08:08 AM
Around Florida Reggie Nelson is known as the Eraser. He is the last line of defense for the gators and he is suppose to erase all of the defenses mistakes. They use him like this because they started two new CB's this year. Last year he was known as the predator. His job was to get after the QB and the Ball Carrier. He is very good at run support and blitzing. You just didnt see it this year because thats not what his coaches wanted him to do.

I guess you can chalk up the Safety position as enlightenment regarding the possibilties a great safety can bring to a defense. a tool if you will of the defensive coordinator, not that familar with Richard Smith but I have noticed CC Brown up more on the line of scrimmage by the time the season ended. I thought he looked much better in that role & had a very good game against the Browns. This past season Landry was brought up more in a run support/pass rush role by Les Miles & not used as much of a safety valve.

So in there lays the problem with the evaluation process for those of us normal fans of football who just watch games & base opinions on field performance. looking @ Reggie Nelsons career in Florida you can see the different ways he was used & a better idea of range in coverage, run support & pass rush. bottom line: Reggie Nelson has elite talent from the safety position, he has a great attitude (unlike Sean Taylor) with skill level to match. he has very good footwork with quick feet, long wing span & vertical leaping ability with sub 4.5 speed (would even improve his stock @ the combine if he runs better as I expect him too) which would allow him to match up in coverage with the bigger WR's, something Landry would struggle in. tough call but one I choose to make that really strenghens the Texans secondary :)

MorKnolle
01-16-2007, 07:38 PM
I guess you can chalk up the Safety position as enlightenment regarding the possibilties a great safety can bring to a defense. a tool if you will of the defensive coordinator, not that familar with Richard Smith but I have noticed CC Brown up more on the line of scrimmage by the time the season ended. I thought he looked much better in that role & had a very good game against the Browns. This past season Landry was brought up more in a run support/pass rush role by Les Miles & not used as much of a safety valve.

So in there lays the problem with the evaluation process for those of us normal fans of football who just watch games & base opinions on field performance. looking @ Reggie Nelsons career in Florida you can see the different ways he was used & a better idea of range in coverage, run support & pass rush. bottom line: Reggie Nelson has elite talent from the safety position, he has a great attitude (unlike Sean Taylor) with skill level to match. he has very good footwork with quick feet, long wing span & vertical leaping ability with sub 4.5 speed (would even improve his stock @ the combine if he runs better as I expect him too) which would allow him to match up in coverage with the bigger WR's, something Landry would struggle in. tough call but one I choose to make that really strenghens the Texans secondary :)

I still haven't seen what I consider elite talent from him, but then again I don't get paid to make such evaluations like professional scouts do, so I don't study them as thoroughly as NFL personnel will, just stating what I've seen out of them and my opinions of him.

MorKnolle
01-16-2007, 07:45 PM
thanks Mork....Out of those 4, from what you wrote, IMO, Nelson would be the least likely to fit for our defense. It sounds like either of the other three would work for us. Now for my questions...Would one of them be available at our 2nd round pick? Is one of them head and shoulders better than the other three? Is that one so much better than the others to warrant taking him with the 8th overall pick if we could get one of the others with our 2nd round pick? What about the Safety from Texas that won the Thorpe award? Where does he rank?

I more or less agree with what Coach said. In terms of overall talent LaRon Landry is probably the most complete guy at this point, but there is not a huge difference between any of the four. Nelson is probaby the best pure coverage guy but I think Meriweather is very, very close to him on that and I've seen much more instances with him in man to man coverage rather than just a deep zone, and he's the most athletic of the four. Michael Griffin is more of a traditional SS but he is athletic enough and has some coverage skills so he could transition to FS, either way it just depends on the type of player that a coach/defensive coordinator prefers and who ends up being available. I personally don't think any of them are elite enough to warrant the #8 pick as safeties just generally aren't valued that highly, but if certain other people were already taken (mainly AP, Jamaal Anderson, Leon Hall) then I personally would definitely look at one of them as this isn't an overly top-heavy draft in terms of elite talents available. I also think Meriweather could very well end up falling to the 2nd round because of his character concerns, so I'd be willing to look at a different position in the 1st and hope he falls to the 2nd or even try to trade back into the late 1st to grab him. Griffin will likely go in the late 1st but could also slip to the 2nd round depending on how he grades out and what position some of those teams in the late 1st are looking for. As Coach said the Thorpe winner was Aaron Ross who is a CB. He is pretty good but I'm not especially a fan of his and I think he'd be a very good fit for a tampa cover 2 system, he could end up going in the 2nd round somewhere, more likely the 3rd though.

vtech9
01-16-2007, 10:53 PM
I more or less agree with what Coach said. In terms of overall talent LaRon Landry is probably the most complete guy at this point, but there is not a huge difference between any of the four. Nelson is probaby the best pure coverage guy but I think Meriweather is very, very close to him on that and I've seen much more instances with him in man to man coverage rather than just a deep zone, and he's the most athletic of the four. Michael Griffin is more of a traditional SS but he is athletic enough and has some coverage skills so he could transition to FS, either way it just depends on the type of player that a coach/defensive coordinator prefers and who ends up being available. I personally don't think any of them are elite enough to warrant the #8 pick as safeties just generally aren't valued that highly, but if certain other people were already taken (mainly AP, Jamaal Anderson, Leon Hall) then I personally would definitely look at one of them as this isn't an overly top-heavy draft in terms of elite talents available. I also think Meriweather could very well end up falling to the 2nd round because of his character concerns, so I'd be willing to look at a different position in the 1st and hope he falls to the 2nd or even try to trade back into the late 1st to grab him. Griffin will likely go in the late 1st but could also slip to the 2nd round depending on how he grades out and what position some of those teams in the late 1st are looking for. As Coach said the Thorpe winner was Aaron Ross who is a CB. He is pretty good but I'm not especially a fan of his and I think he'd be a very good fit for a tampa cover 2 system, he could end up going in the 2nd round somewhere, more likely the 3rd though.

good stuff....thanks for your time and opinions. Personally, I would have hard time taking a safety that high unless he is just so much better than anyone else out there.

YoungTexanFan
01-16-2007, 11:30 PM
good stuff....thanks for your time and opinions. Personally, I would have hard time taking a safety that high unless he is just so much better than anyone else out there.

The thing isn't that he is so much better than Landry, it's that he won't be available much later. He shouldn't last past SF and ATL. I would like to trade back to get him, but he realisticly should be off the board by 12, which leaves our trade back options limited if he is our target.

I prefer a centerfield FS to a SS/FS hybrid. I want someone I know can get to the ball on either side of the field and make a play. I want my FS to be a ballhawk in coverage. I still think Ko Simpson was the BPA in the 3rd round and deffinetly in the 4th. I think Ko Simpson is a better FS than those drafted before him and better than Nelson and Landry this year, but apparently scouts and GM's saw it differently on draft day.

texman8
01-17-2007, 12:24 AM
The thing isn't that he is so much better than Landry, it's that he won't be available much later. He shouldn't last past SF and ATL. I would like to trade back to get him, but he realisticly should be off the board by 12, which leaves our trade back options limited if he is our target.

I prefer a centerfield FS to a SS/FS hybrid. I want someone I know can get to the ball on either side of the field and make a play. I want my FS to be a ballhawk in coverage. I still think Ko Simpson was the BPA in the 3rd round and deffinetly in the 4th. I think Ko Simpson is a better FS than those drafted before him and better than Nelson and Landry this year, but apparently scouts and GM's saw it differently on draft day.

Question is what did Ko Simpson do this past season? Did he contribute more than Owen Daniels?

threetoedpete
01-17-2007, 01:06 AM
Well at least you got Owen equvailant with the mighty KO. Should I go back to last April and see what you posted then ? He's a seam busting sure handed vertical TE going up agaisnt tamapa twoes. Like we didn't need one of those. Yeah ...he beats Ko hands down in my book. He was a round peg in a round hole. I hope we only do half as well with the fourth pick this year.

YoungTexanFan
01-17-2007, 08:48 AM
Well at least you got Owen equvailant with the mighty KO. Should I go back to last April and see what you posted then ? He's a seam busting sure handed vertical TE going up agaisnt tamapa twoes. Like we didn't need one of those. Yeah ...he beats Ko hands down in my book. He was a round peg in a round hole. I hope we only do half as well with the fourth pick this year.

I'm not saying I don't like OD and what he brings, what I'm saying is that Ko Simpson has more talent at his position by far than OD. Knowing what OD did this year, I would still have taken Ko Simpson.

beerlover
01-17-2007, 12:18 PM
Vtech I will jump in and answer your Qs. Yes, it is possible that Griffin and Meriweather could be available at our 2nd round pick. No, none of the safeties in this years draft out of the ones Mork mentioned are head and shoulders above each other. Like he said Landry and Nelson will likely be the first two picked and it will depend on preference and scheme. I dont think any of the safeties warrant a top 10 pick, but if that is all that is left on the Texans board they may pull the trigger. Aaron Ross won the Thorpe award and he is a corner, and not an overly impressive one. He should not even be picked before the end of the 2nd.

did you miss the fact that I too think highly of Griffin & Meriweather? in my mock draft both went in the first rd. (17th & 19th) so don't expect either one to be there in the 2nd.

if I choose to address safety later in the draft & went with say RB Marshawn Lynch with the 8th pick instead there is one prospect I really like- Eric Weddle, Utah @ the safety position but Reggie Nelson is head & shoulders above him, there in lies the rub :hmmm:

the only thing additional to consider is if anyone of those top 7 fall to the Texans then I would say you have to go with bpa :)

beerlover
01-17-2007, 01:56 PM
I still haven't seen what I consider elite talent from him, but then again I don't get paid to make such evaluations like professional scouts do, so I don't study them as thoroughly as NFL personnel will, just stating what I've seen out of them and my opinions of him.

same here. I repect your opinion. let me try to clarify my position which I think is very important for the simple fact that we are talking about the Texans 1st rd. pick. first I've never correctly identified who the Texans would select with their first pick (David Carr & Andre Johnson don't count because everyone knew they where going to be selected) you on the other hand correctly called the Mario Williams pick. I have no problem with Mario I just disagreed with the pick, but you where right so congratulations.

anyway on to this year. just forget about needs for a second (you also wrote an excellent synopsis of the Texans season) for if that where the case either another QB via free agency or the draft would have to be at the top of anyones list who had half a brain. or as you posted "Both CC Brown and Glenn Earl are serviceable at SS, but neither are really a FS and we do need a FS that can actually cover someone". the point I'm going to make is that Reggie Nelson would be the bpa if the top of the draft reflects my first mock draft post underclassman deadline. there are clearly many needs, the focus on any mock draft should be to balance those needs yet still somehow make the best football decision for the team with the bpa.

Reggie Nelson-

He has a very athletic build just under 200 lbs & 6ft. I really believe if tested he could play the CB position, but as we saw in the BCS championship game Florida had good corners & wanted to free Reggie up to be the deep cover in coverage surpport. to me while dissapointing not to see what he could do closer up to the line of scrimmage (like LaRon Landry does @ LSU) it was the game plan & it must have worked because not only did Florida win the Nationl Championship they humiliated Heisman winner Troy Smith (yeah I noticed the pass rush- see I have Jarvis Moss going #13th to the Rams) & an example of my first point- Reggie Nelson is coachable & a team player both of which are very important to the Texans.

Skill wise he has the potential to do it all. will need to work on backpeddle for on the line coverage, but has the footspeed to develop the technique. he seems to me at least to possess the instincts to react both in coverage & run support plus the speed & ability to adjust his body in space to break up a pass or deleiver a hit. he has big play potential, doesnt get bounced around (something very important at the next level) can be aggressive in the last line of defense but will not get beaten by a bad angle (Ginn has elit speed & he was held on that opening kick-off return). his production numbers don't refelct his ability based upon what was asked of him, I beleive he has learned to read coverages, formations of opponents sitting back in the deep zone that will benifit his coverage & reaction skills in the NFL.

I keep hearing the arguement that taking a safety in the top 10 or even the first rd. is a bad idea :lightbulb:

just look at the trend thats evolved over the last couple years (invloves a variety of reasons but none more important than rule changes in the NFL that restrict contact with wide receivers) the demand for FS & valuation has increased to aquire that specialist who has the athletic ability & skill set to shutdown the receivers sideline to sideline in coverage. hence teams are more willing now to consider this as a key component of what they want to do on the defensive side of the ball. look at both Buffalo & Oakland last year taking Michael Huff (#7) & Donte Whitner (#8). I'm not trying to be nostradamus, I'm simply trying to share my viewpoint that as a GM, scout or whatever (mock board poster) we should all strive to evolve with the game. looking at old NFL film its just amazes me the lack of atheltic ability compared today even 10 years ago. today the game is played @ another speed, with much bigger & gifted gladiator type atheltes. Reggie Nelson would bring that type of dimension to the Texans secondary, alot of teams will covet Reggie for his physical coverage skills as well, hence (in my humble opinion) Reggie is the right fit (for the Texans) @ the right time (#8th pick) :ok:

2007-

El Tejano
01-17-2007, 03:22 PM
My take on all this is that we can't go wrong with the #8 pick. Unless we pick up some other offensive lineman not named Joe Thomas.

Gaines Adams means no more double teams on Williams, Branch means the added disruptiveness we've needed in our DT, a Safety in Reggie Nelson is something you can't get mad at either because we've needed one for a long time now.

MorKnolle
01-17-2007, 05:33 PM
The thing isn't that he is so much better than Landry, it's that he won't be available much later. He shouldn't last past SF and ATL. I would like to trade back to get him, but he realisticly should be off the board by 12, which leaves our trade back options limited if he is our target.

I prefer a centerfield FS to a SS/FS hybrid. I want someone I know can get to the ball on either side of the field and make a play. I want my FS to be a ballhawk in coverage. I still think Ko Simpson was the BPA in the 3rd round and deffinetly in the 4th. I think Ko Simpson is a better FS than those drafted before him and better than Nelson and Landry this year, but apparently scouts and GM's saw it differently on draft day.

I still don't see why you are such a fan of Ko Simpson. He was a pretty solid player and had very good measurables, although if anything I think he plays more like a SS other than he's a good overall athlete. I think last year he was very unpolished and needed some work, and he got a lot of good playing time this year and has improved some in addition to contributing on the Bills defense. Now, would I rather see him as our FS than CC Brown? Absolutely yes. Would I have taken him in the 3rd round over Charles Spencer or Eric Winston? Not a chance. Would I have taken him in the 4th round over Owen Daniels? I would definitely think about it, but I'd probably rather have taken Owen in the 4th round and Antoine Bethea in the 6th as opposed to Ko Simpson in the 4th and Wali Lundy in the 6th.

beerlover
01-17-2007, 08:21 PM
I think Ko Simpson is a better FS than those drafted before him and better than Nelson and Landry this year, but apparently scouts and GM's saw it differently on draft day.

have you been nipping into beerlovers cooler :fridge:

c'mon dude your better than that, besides Simpson is more of a strong safety :tease:

Kaiser Toro
01-17-2007, 08:25 PM
Enough with Ko Simpson. Between the railing against VY man love and the new unbridled man love with AP just let Ko go. You are much better with your info and innuendo than championing a petition to bring Ko to the Texans. :mario:

YoungTexanFan
01-17-2007, 10:21 PM
Enough with Ko Simpson. Between the railing against VY man love and the new unbridled man love with AP just let Ko go. You are much better with your info and innuendo than championing a petition to bring Ko to the Texans. :mario:

True story. I will move on. I'm upset because I need a new player to get excited about. I had Ko last year, and now Gaither next year. I need that player this year.

None of the players this year have me excited about them that much yet. Moss is close if he is taken in the 2nd. Maybe Kailh. IDK. I need help.

beerlover
01-17-2007, 10:28 PM
None of the players this year have me excited about them that much yet. Moss is close if he is taken in the 2nd. Maybe Kailh. IDK. I need help.

what about a one two combination of Nelson in the 1st followed by Moss in the 2nd, that should help :yes:

Texian
01-17-2007, 10:50 PM
True story. I will move on. I'm upset because I need a new player to get excited about. I had Ko last year, and now Gaither next year. I need that player this year.

None of the players this year have me excited about them that much yet. Moss is close if he is taken in the 2nd. Maybe Kailh. IDK. I need help.

Don't feel bad there YTF, I was all excited when Jamaal Anderson declared and it looks like a lot of others are to. I have resolved myself to fact that Anderson and Adams will likely be gone @ 8 and if so, I am ready to trade back far enough to pick up another 2nd RD.

beerlover
01-18-2007, 09:04 AM
GBN just updated their Top 100 prospects- http://www.gbnreport.com/2007top100.html

GBN top 32 compared to my mock draft numbered in bold-

1. 1 *Calvin Johnson WR 6-4, 235 Georgia Tech

7. 2 *Jamarcus Russell QB 6-6, 255 LSU

5. 3 Joe Thomas OT 6-8, 305 Wisconsin (X)

2. 4 Brady Quinn QB 6-4, 230 Notre Dame

3. 5 *Adrian Peterson RB 6-2, 220 Oklahoma (X)

6. 6 *Alan Branch DT 6-6, 330 Michigan

11. 7 Gaines Adams DE 6-4, 265 Clemson

9. 8 *Dwayne Jarrett WR 6-5, 210 Southern California

4. 9 *Jamaal Anderson DE 6-5, 280 Arkansas

10. 10 *Marshawn Lynch RB 5-10,223 California

8. 11 *Reggie Nelson FS 6-1, 195 Florida

16. 12 *Ted Ginn WR 6-0, 180 Ohio State

12. 13 Leon Hall CB 5-11,195 Michigan

13. 14 *Jarvis Moss DE 6-5, 255 Florida

29. 15 Levi Brown OT 6-5, 325 Penn State

15. 16 *Darrelle Revis CB 5-11,190 Pittsburgh

22. 17 *Sidney Rice WR 6-2, 200 South Carolina

18. 18 Patrick Willis LB 6-2, 230 Mississippi

14. 19 LaRon Landry FS 6-2, 205 LSU

20 Marcus McCauley CB 6-0, 205 Fresno State

30. 21 Justin Blalock OG 6-4, 330 Texas

21. 22Amobi Okoye DT 6-0, 315 Louisville

23 *Lawrence Timmons LB 6-3, 230 Florida State

24 Quinn Pitcock DT 6-3, 295 Ohio State

32. 25 *Zach Miller TE 6-5, 260 Arizona State

26. 26 *Robert Meacham WR 6-2, 205 Tennessee

27 Fred Bennett CB 6-0, 200 South Carolina

24. 28 Paul Poluszny LB 6-1, 238 Penn State

27. 29 Quentin Moses DE 6-5, 250 Georgia

30 Dwayne Bowe WR 6-2. 220 LSU

25. 31 Tank Tyler DT 6-0, 330 North Carolina State

19. 32 Michael Griffen FS 6-0, 205 Texas

threetoedpete
01-18-2007, 12:18 PM
McCauley and Bennet beigh pushed up the boards by the mockers should tell you all you need to know about this class of DBs. The demand far exceeds the supply.

beerlover
01-18-2007, 12:38 PM
McCauley and Bennet beigh pushed up the boards by the mockers should tell you all you need to know about this class of DBs. The demand far exceeds the supply.

it tells me they don't watch game tape :tvhorror:

McCauley has the best measureables in terms of proto-typical size but when I watched Fresno State play he shy'ed away from contact, played off the receiver giving him a huge cushion & was bascily a non factor in the game struggling just to be the starting corner. he might be better suited @ FS. in my opinion but even there I like Meriweather & Griffen much better, at least those guys aren't afraid to stick their noses into the fray & mix it up.

Bennett is a burner & tall but his coverage skills are a work in progress & not finished. his major weakness is in run support & his tackling technique is poor. not sure if he is even a 2nd rd prospect.

beerlover
01-19-2007, 09:23 AM
NFL Draft Scout (paid service) just posted their first mock draft. unfortunately I cannot post it here but I can tell you they have the Texans addressing the offensive tackle position with the 8th pick.....drum roll please...........Levi Brown. shocker huh :)

The Texans made the unpopular choice of passing on Reggie Bush last year because they believed that the injured Domanick Davis (now Domanick Williams) would come back and perform well. Charles Spencer looked like he might be the Texans' long term answer at left tackle early last year before breaking bones in his knee. Houston won't rely on the rehabilitation of a player at such a vital position again.

other picks that matched up with my mock where-

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Brady Quinn
3. Adrian Peterson
7. JaMarcus Russell
12. Leon Hall

real
01-19-2007, 09:28 AM
Nelson-11
Landry-19

My guess is that after the combine, he clearly defines himself as the number #1 safety in this draft...

threetoedpete
01-19-2007, 11:13 PM
http://www.footballsfuture.com/news/2007/01/reggie-nelson-in-kipers-top-ten.html

His Mock :
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/nflmockdraft.html

threetoedpete
01-20-2007, 01:21 AM
NFL Draft Scout (paid service) just posted their first mock draft. unfortunately I cannot post it here but I can tell you they have the Texans addressing the offensive tackle position with the 8th pick.....drum roll please...........Levi Brown. shocker huh :)

The Texans made the unpopular choice of passing on Reggie Bush last year because they believed that the injured Domanick Davis (now Domanick Williams) would come back and perform well. Charles Spencer looked like he might be the Texans' long term answer at left tackle early last year before breaking bones in his knee. Houston won't rely on the rehabilitation of a player at such a vital position again.

other picks that matched up with my mock where-

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Brady Quinn
3. Adrian Peterson
7. JaMarcus Russell
12. Leon Hall

Wow, now someone gonna tell me OT isn't a major need on this club ?

So they don't bite on the playmaker with the one...Higgens @ the two ?


TYVM on that one BL.

beerlover
01-20-2007, 02:38 AM
I never gave this much consideration (Levi Brown) Texans pick to early in the 1st and he won't be there in the 2nd. if he grades out high enough to Smith/Kubiak maybe they could bank some extra 2nds/3rds drop down & select him & be done with this once & for all :sumo: