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prostock101
01-08-2007, 05:39 PM
This team needs to do now what they should have done 5 years ago and it all starts in the trenches. Forget worrying about QB's and RB's. I would not be unhappy if the Texans used every draft pick and FA pickup on the OL and DL. Fix those two areas and everybody behind them gets a lot better. We've got plenty of servicable RB's, Sage could run the offense, we're good at TE, and the DB's will improve with a better DL. Maybe add a stud at LB and we're good to go.

.......and I am a genuis.:tease:

Sportsfan
01-08-2007, 05:46 PM
I've said this a few times on here, TOTALLY agree.

Blake
01-08-2007, 05:49 PM
Sounds good. Joe Thomas or Alan Branch.

TexanFanInCC
01-08-2007, 05:50 PM
This team needs to do now what they should have done 5 years ago and it all starts in the trenches. Forget worrying about QB's and RB's. I would not be unhappy if the Texans used every draft pick and FA pickup on the OL and DL. Fix those two areas and everybody behind them gets a lot better. We've got plenty of servicable RB's, Sage could run the offense, we're good at TE, and the DB's will improve with a better DL. Maybe add a stud at LB and we're good to go.

.......and I am a genuis.:tease:

i actually agree with that as well. winning in the trenches = winning on the scoreboard. we need to add a DT that can bust apart a play at the snap and can diverse some attention away from mario williams, who would definitely be a benefactor of a great DT lined next to him.

WWJD
01-08-2007, 05:51 PM
I'm no expert on college players but every radio show football draft guru I've heard this year said the OL guys eligible for draft this year are sub-par except for the guy from Wisconsin and he's expected to go in the top 2 or 3.

Don't know about FA OL guys.

kenneth24
01-08-2007, 05:56 PM
I don't think an offensive skill position should be our first pick in the draft. I would rather pick up as close to a stud as possible at OLine or anywhere on the Defense.

prostock101
01-08-2007, 06:14 PM
PS - And find a punter. Field position is everything and Stanley didn't do us any favors last year. Another thing that would really help is for Mathis to work on his receiving skills in the offseason. Having him as a 3rd receiver that could really stretch the field would be great.

DocBar
01-08-2007, 06:34 PM
Maybe take Russell from LSU(IF available) and if he bombs at QB, he'd make a monster DE.:tease:
I really like the ideas posted on the draft.I would rather see more done on D because we seem to be closer to being at least average there and this seems to be a fairly weak draft for OL.

prostock101
01-08-2007, 06:55 PM
Maybe take Russell from LSU(IF available) and if he bombs at QB, he'd make a monster DE.:tease:
I really like the ideas posted on the draft.I would rather see more done on D because we seem to be closer to being at least average there and this seems to be a fairly weak draft for OL.

I realize everyone's on the Russell bandwagon after the bowl game but I wouldn't take him. I just don't think he's mobile enough for the speed of the NFL. He may get out of the way of college lineman but he'd be a 260lb sitting duck for Freeny or Jason Taylor.

Double Barrel
01-08-2007, 07:00 PM
This team needs to do now what they should have done 5 years ago and it all starts in the trenches.

I agree 100%. Draft 'ugly' until we get it right. We can be a winning team if we can win the battle of the trenches on both sides of the ball, simply because of how control of the line makes everyone else better as a result.

PS - And find a punter. Field position is everything and Stanley didn't do us any favors last year. Another thing that would really help is for Mathis to work on his receiving skills in the offseason. Having him as a 3rd receiver that could really stretch the field would be great.

Special teams often get overlooked, but a good unit that can consistestly down a punt inside the 20, make 40 yard FGs, and get good field position on returns can make even mediocre teams have winning records.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem if they used all their draft picks and FA money to take care of the trenches and special teams. It's not glamorous, but it's just fundamental football basics that goes a long way towards being successful.

tulexan
01-08-2007, 07:01 PM
I realize everyone's on the Russell bandwagon after the bowl game but I wouldn't take him. I just don't think he's mobile enough for the speed of the NFL. He may get out of the way of college lineman but he'd be a 260lb sitting duck for Freeny or Jason Taylor.

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady don't seem to have much of a problem.

DoCRoN
01-08-2007, 07:03 PM
PS - And find a punter. Field position is everything and Stanley didn't do us any favors last year. Another thing that would really help is for Mathis to work on his receiving skills in the offseason. Having him as a 3rd receiver that could really stretch the field would be great.

I couldn't agree more. Stanley's hang time and placement are great if we're punting from the 50 yard line. But kicking it 35 yards when you're backed up at your own 20 doesn't do much for your field position battle.

Its good to see we've already brought someone in to try out at punter (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=33805)...

hollywood_texan
01-08-2007, 07:06 PM
This team needs to do now what they should have done 5 years ago and it all starts in the trenches. Forget worrying about QB's and RB's. I would not be unhappy if the Texans used every draft pick and FA pickup on the OL and DL. Fix those two areas and everybody behind them gets a lot better. We've got plenty of servicable RB's, Sage could run the offense, we're good at TE, and the DB's will improve with a better DL. Maybe add a stud at LB and we're good to go.

.......and I am a genuis.:tease:

How about this, the offense starts scoring some serious points, which could mask a weak secondary because the defense can play a different game with a lead.

imatexan
01-08-2007, 07:07 PM
I dont want to watch a bunch of O-line people...I want play makers that will win!

prostock101
01-08-2007, 07:08 PM
Peyton Manning and Tom Brady don't seem to have much of a problem.

Do they weigh in at 260+????? I could be wrong about Russell but when I was watching the game he just didn't seem very quick on his feet...Culpepper is big like he is and, before his knee exploded, was a lot quicker.

tulexan
01-08-2007, 07:13 PM
Do they weigh in at 260+????? I could be wrong about Russell but when I was watching the game he just didn't seem very quick on his feet...Culpepper is big like he is and, before his knee exploded, was a lot quicker.

Speed is speed. Russell may not be Michael Vick or Vince Young, but for his size he is elusive and hard to take down. He will not have a problem avoiding the pass rush in the NFL. If anything, defenders will have a hard time taking him down when trying to sack him.

prostock101
01-08-2007, 07:31 PM
Speed is speed. Russell may not be Michael Vick or Vince Young, but for his size he is elusive and hard to take down. He will not have a problem avoiding the pass rush in the NFL. If anything, defenders will have a hard time taking him down when trying to sack him.

We'll see I suppose. Raiders have first pick and will probably take him.....Anyway, this thread was about the Texan OL and DL which should take priority over anything else this offseason. If Russell can block or rush a passer than we should take a look at him.

Texian
01-08-2007, 08:27 PM
My preference is Jamaal Anderson DE, Arkansas #1 and Ryan Harris LT, Notre Dame #2. History shows the Broncos did not take a RB #1 during Kubiak's tenure with Denver.

Carr Bombed
01-08-2007, 08:31 PM
My preference is Jamaal Anderson DE, Arkansas #1 and Ryan Harris LT, Notre Dame #2. History shows the Broncos did not take a RB #1 during Kubiak's tenure with Denver.

But they tried to last year so thats a moot point. Denver didn't have to take a RB high because they hit on gems in later rounds, its the exception not their rule.

Pantherstang84
01-08-2007, 08:37 PM
I dont want to watch a bunch of O-line people...I want play makers that will win!

Uhhh. Playmakers can't make plays until the guys in the trenches make the blocks.:dangit:

prostock101
01-08-2007, 09:52 PM
Uhhh. Playmakers can't make plays until the guys in the trenches make the blocks.:dangit:

Somebody who gets it....:yahoo:

Texian
01-08-2007, 10:44 PM
But they tried to last year so thats a moot point. Denver didn't have to take a RB high because they hit on gems in later rounds, its the exception not their rule.

Do you have a link for that exception?

Double Barrel
01-08-2007, 10:51 PM
I dont want to watch a bunch of O-line people...I want play makers that will win!

It all starts in the trenches. Offensive linemen open the holes for runners. Even mediocre RBs can have great years behind a dominant O-line. And this same line gives your QB protection, allowing him time to find open receivers. The longer the blocking time, the longer your receivers have to get open. DBs can only cover for so much amount of time.

On defense, you stop the run, you've stopped half of the opposing team's offense. And stopping the run is primarily done with your defensive line. In addition, if you can get consistent pressure on the QB, you disrupt the offense's timing and ability to move the ball. This also helps to create turnovers, which always helps change momentum in your favor.

I think winning the battle of the trenches is the most important aspect of a solid football team. Playmakers are made by solid lines on both sides of the ball. It's football 101.

West Texas Texan
01-08-2007, 11:05 PM
Well where are all the "we are stupid for not taking RB or VY" and where are all the "Mario was the worst possible pick for the Texans" experts? What a thought, let's build the trenches first, which is exactly what Kubiak started with this year, MW, DR, CS and EW in his first four picks, and he was crucified by the Message boards for such terrible choices. go figure....

Next year draft another DE to bookend MW, draft O Line to replace the injuries and add depth, and another LB or two to compliment DR (Our LB's are too slow). Lastly, add DB's that can make plays (cover, close and tackle)

AustinJB
01-08-2007, 11:15 PM
Uhhh. Playmakers can't make plays until the guys in the trenches make the blocks.:dangit:

Dear MessageBoard,

Playmakers CAN make plays w/ a mediocre or even horrible Oline.

Signed,

Vince Young (in 2006)
Domanick Davis (in 2003, 2004, and 2005)


I agree that creating a strong Oline is key; that's definitely where it should start. However, great playmakers can make a mediocre Oline look great....see the Indy Colts.

Maddict5
01-09-2007, 11:34 AM
I dont want to watch a bunch of O-line people...I want play makers that will win!


like the cardinals:stirpot:

SamuraiSword
01-09-2007, 11:42 AM
We'll see I suppose. Raiders have first pick and will probably take him.....Anyway, this thread was about the Texan OL and DL which should take priority over anything else this offseason. If Russell can block or rush a passer than we should take a look at him.

Well from what I heard on 610 they said Al Davis doesn't take QB's anymore at the first round. You watch him take Joe Thomas at the first round.

The Pencil Neck
01-09-2007, 01:30 PM
Well from what I heard on 610 they said Al Davis doesn't take QB's anymore at the first round. You watch him take Joe Thomas at the first round.

Yeah, especially after how well that Robert Gallery pick worked out for him. :shades:

phan1
01-09-2007, 01:53 PM
Just bring in Alex Gibbs man. He'll fix this Oline. I mean, we brought in a pro-bowl calibur center and still sucked. And the injuries to this Oline didn't help either.

prostock101
01-09-2007, 01:56 PM
Well from what I heard on 610 they said Al Davis doesn't take QB's anymore at the first round. You watch him take Joe Thomas at the first round.

I would be shocked if the Raiders didn't take a QB first round. How could they not? Brooks makes Carr look like Tom Brady.

Meloy
01-09-2007, 02:16 PM
Our efforts to acquire a stud left OT and a QB -disrupting defensive lineman have not been very successful. Focus has been placed on Mario, but Weaver and the linebackers were not much good at this either. I think a season with minimal injuries with the guys we have will provide a very interesting 2007. If and I do realize that is a big word, we can grab a starter @ L OT, C. Spencer (maybe on right), Pitts, Flannagan, McKinney, Weary,Salaam, Winston and maybe Wiegert will give me optimism. Also, if we are able to reduce IR days. Same can be said of our defense where injuries devastated but allowed others to make a case of them being on team in 07. With a solid CB opposite Dunte (free agency or draft) every one is better on that side of ball. I like our backs but I expect another to be added as Dayne needs fewer carries and Gado and the two rookie half backs need more games for me to sign off.

TEXANFAN23435
01-09-2007, 02:17 PM
Can anyone say where NYJ or San Diego might be without their OL, DL and LB aquisitions??? The trenches these 2 teams developed paid huge dividends this year.
Mario is far from a bust, he needs some help to spread OL out. Carr may be out but this is due to a horrible line and a defense who got us far enough behind each week, that we became Marty S. predictable.
Urgency areas to cover with the first 3 picks and it really doesn't matter which order:
1. OT, DE, OLB or DT
2. DT, OT, OLB or DT
Stock these cubbards OL, DL, LB & DB each year and this will keep us strong and if the cubbards get too full, then you really own a strong trade commodity.

real
01-09-2007, 02:25 PM
Focus has been placed on Mario, but Weaver and the linebackers were not much good at this either.

I don't think the Texans used there heads with this little situation...

What we have here is two Strong side DE's....originally they were going to play Weaver at tackle, and put Babin/Peek at the Weakside DE spot....

Well...After Weaver got mauled inside, and Babin and Peek showed that they were nothing more than pass rushers(if that), we were forced to move Weaver back to the DE spot....Which now means we don't have a DE who can pass rush really well...AKA a weakside DE....

What-a-Pickle...

I'm hoping the Texans go ahead and ask Weaver to bulk up, and make the full time move to DT this off-season...He'd give us additional quickness inside, and we'd be able to get a true weakside DE...

Mario and Weaver would be great DE's for the 3-4 though.....

Second Honeymoon
01-09-2007, 03:32 PM
If we have a chance at Branch or Adams on the DL, I can't see any scenario where they would pass on either of them. Truth be told, I think both those guys will be long gone. We need to hope Leon Hall falls to us or its gonna be between Laron Landry (who didn't look that special in the Sugar Bowl), Jake Landry OT from Michigan, or Quentin Moses DE/OLB from Georgia.

Personally, I think Adams would be the player that could make the most impact for the Texans NEXT year. Moses would be a nice consolation prize but he isn't as much of a sure thing as Adams is.

A lot of noise is being made that this isnt a very good draft but that is ridiculous. There are no elite QB or OL prospects but there is loads of talent at DB, DL, and Safety. Which all happen to be areas of need for the Texans. It could shake out quite well for us this year in the draft. Call me an optimist.

eriadoc
01-09-2007, 05:02 PM
I agree that creating a strong Oline is key; that's definitely where it should start. However, great playmakers can make a mediocre Oline look great....see the Indy Colts.

People on this board seem to have this notion that the Colts' line is not that good in pass pro. Tarik Glenn and Jeff Saturday (LT and C, respectively) are very good players. The other three on the line are average players, but having two solid players on that line brings the overall level of play a lot higher than you might think. Sure, Indy's line has had some issues against some of the more clever blitz schemes that have been thrown at them from time to time, but they protect Manning pretty well for the most part. If our O-line ever gets close to the level of "mediocrity" that is Indy's line, we'll be well on our way to winning consistently.

prostock101
01-09-2007, 10:23 PM
People on this board seem to have this notion that the Colts' line is not that good in pass pro. Tarik Glenn and Jeff Saturday (LT and C, respectively) are very good players. The other three on the line are average players, but having two solid players on that line brings the overall level of play a lot higher than you might think. Sure, Indy's line has had some issues against some of the more clever blitz schemes that have been thrown at them from time to time, but they protect Manning pretty well for the most part. If our O-line ever gets close to the level of "mediocrity" that is Indy's line, we'll be well on our way to winning consistently.

I'd take the Colts OL anyday. Manning always seems to have forever to throw.

Koolaid Time
01-09-2007, 10:38 PM
I don't think an offensive skill position should be our first pick in the draft. I would rather pick up as close to a stud as possible at OLine or anywhere on the Defense.


Remember back in the early 80's the Oilers first picks were Mike Munchak, Bruce Matthews, Dean Steinkuhler.

Seemed to work out then. Too bad this is a weak draft for offensive linemen. But there are plenty of good defensive candidates both in draft and free agency.

YoungTexanFan
01-09-2007, 11:32 PM
How about this, the offense starts scoring some serious points, which could mask a weak secondary because the defense can play a different game with a lead.

you want to build a huge lead, and force the opposing team to throw in an attempt to mask our weak DB's?

Zac
01-10-2007, 12:53 AM
In Football, the trenches set the table for wins!!!

The skill position players get you the highlights, which were made possible by the guys in the trenches.

run-david-run
01-10-2007, 01:36 AM
Dear MessageBoard,

Playmakers CAN make plays w/ a mediocre or even horrible Oline.

Signed,

Vince Young (in 2006)
Domanick Davis (in 2003, 2004, and 2005)


I agree that creating a strong Oline is key; that's definitely where it should start. However, great playmakers can make a mediocre Oline look great....see the Indy Colts.

Peyton Manning was sacked about 17 times during the regular season and both the Colts center and left tackle are going to the Pro-Bowl...Edgerin James had the worst season of his career after leaving the Colts and joining a team without a good offensive line. Priest Holmes was released by Baltimore, but as soon as he joined a team with two Hall of Fame O-lineman and another consistant Pro-Bowler he became a top 5 runner in the NFL. There are countless examples of mediocre running backs finding success behind good offensive lines, while only the most gifted of players can find success in spite of their team mates.

TexansSeminole
01-10-2007, 02:03 AM
Special teams often get overlooked, but a good unit that can consistestly down a punt inside the 20, make 40 yard FGs, and get good field position on returns can make even mediocre teams have winning records.


I agree completely. There is this punter from Baylor, Sepulveda. He is an outstanding punter. He would make our punting game strong right away if we were to draft him. If not him than someone because we need strong special teams if we want to win those close games.

Also I don't know about drafting a OL with our first round pick is a good idea unless we were to get Joe Thomas. If he is available by the time we pick and we do not select him I would be suprised.

threetoedpete
01-10-2007, 05:42 AM
Russel, Bar none...has the best live arm of anyone coming out since Farve. And why anyone woud turn their nose up at the kid is beyond me. And unlike Farve coming out...the kid is acurate and makes good decisions. Any faults he has are coachable and easily corrected. The kid is a lock. He want make it to 8 that's for sure.

threetoedpete
01-10-2007, 05:54 AM
Dear MessageBoard,

Playmakers CAN make plays w/ a mediocre or even horrible Oline.

Signed,

Vince Young (in 2006)
Domanick Davis (in 2003, 2004, and 2005)


I agree that creating a strong Oline is key; that's definitely where it should start. However, great playmakers can make a mediocre Oline look great....see the Indy Colts.

There is a reason Sean Alexander had a devil of a time for three years getting a new deal out of the Seahawks. He had to set the single season record for scores before they gave him his new deal. People who over pay for running backs are destined to be in cap hell and have under achieving teams....untill they get a good o-line. Without Walter Jones AND Steve Hutchinson...where was Alexander this season....? Where was the seahawks rushing attack this season ? Tallent on the o-line matters. You take your time, be patient, and build form the inside out. Not the other way around my friend. The proof is in the David Carr pudding. Five offensive tackles missed in five seasons killed him. The stud running back is not going to fix this football team.

edo783
01-10-2007, 10:23 AM
The stud running back is not going to fix this football team.

Keep preaching Bro. I swear most folks are like a Bass, they just keep chasing that shinny object and then wonder why they get hooked. Ya have to build from the inside out and we have screwed the pooch on that for nearly 5 years. Made a start on correcting last off season, but still have a long way to go.

eriadoc
01-10-2007, 11:13 AM
I am in a discussion with some folks on another board about Emmit Smith's legacy. It's very frustrating to see people discredit Emmitt Smith's accomplishments because he ran behind such a dominant line and then come to this board and see people discount the importance of offensive line on this team that has done so poorly in that department for five solid years.

El Tejano
01-10-2007, 11:23 AM
I am in a discussion with some folks on another board about Emmit Smith's legacy. It's very frustrating to see people discredit Emmitt Smith's accomplishments because he ran behind such a dominant line and then come to this board and see people discount the importance of offensive line on this team that has done so poorly in that department for five solid years.

You said a mouthful there sir. I don't think the argument is taking an OL with our pick though. IMO the argument is taking another OL at #8 besides Joe Thomas. I think anyone else that is out there can be had later in that round or with our 2nd round pick.

texans83
01-10-2007, 11:24 AM
Russel, Bar none...has the best live arm of anyone coming out since Farve. And why anyone woud turn their nose up at the kid is beyond me. And unlike Farve coming out...the kid is acurate and makes good decisions. Any faults he has are coachable and easily corrected. The kid is a lock. He want make it to 8 that's for sure.

Yea coachable huh you sound like coach kubes and what he was saying about carr last year. I think david could be a great QB but he is just so rattled. And im not so sure I would want to spend another 1st round pick on a qb again, itleast one that has only showed some good things. Dont you remb all the other games he played where he was fumbling all the time. And yes I know he has a good arm but so does Carr.

texans83
01-10-2007, 11:26 AM
There is a reason Sean Alexander had a devil of a time for three years getting a new deal out of the Seahawks. He had to set the single season record for scores before they gave him his new deal. People who over pay for running backs are destined to be in cap hell and have under achieving teams....untill they get a good o-line. Without Walter Jones AND Steve Hutchinson...where was Alexander this season....? Where was the seahawks rushing attack this season ? Tallent on the o-line matters. You take your time, be patient, and build form the inside out. Not the other way around my friend. The proof is in the David Carr pudding. Five offensive tackles missed in five seasons killed him. The stud running back is not going to fix this football team.

Sean Alexander was hurt half the season. That is where he was

yourfavoritetexan42
01-10-2007, 11:32 AM
I am totally for strengthing the lines first before worrying about who is throwing, catching, running, and covering. Kubiak knows this, and that was his main focus last year. I hope it is a bigger focus this year. If Alan Branch is available, take him, and I don't want to hear your bull crap "I am tired of taking d linemen every year!" Well I am telling you this. As much of a Genetic Freak Mario Williams is, will Branch be, 6'6 and over 300? Ted Washington anyone? That takes away the middle for the run game, and that gives Demeco more of an oppurtunity to make plays.

Mr teX
01-10-2007, 11:43 AM
Could not agree more with this thread. Tom Brady will go down as 1 of the greatest, but his jersey has always remained clean, belicheck year in & year out makes sure of that. & with a depleted secondary pretty much every year, subing WR's in as nickel backs, People ask how does he do it? Wilfork, Seymour & the rest of the d-line just might have more to do with that than people think.

Summary: Get a dominant D-line/O-line & build from there.

yourfavoritetexan42
01-10-2007, 02:44 PM
Another good point to make is look at the jets...what did they do? Built up their offensive line. What this did is make a bunch of mediocre players make hte playoffs because they were behind a good offensive line.

You never know, we may have a lot of good athletes, we just don't know yet without a good offensive line.

prostock101
01-10-2007, 04:28 PM
Could not agree more with this thread. Tom Brady will go down as 1 of the greatest, but his jersey has always remained clean, belicheck year in & year out makes sure of that. & with a depleted secondary pretty much every year, subing WR's in as nickel backs, People ask how does he do it? Wilfork, Seymour & the rest of the d-line just might have more to do with that than people think.

Yup

Summary: Get a dominant D-line/O-line & build from there.

Yup again

I am totally for strengthing the lines first before worrying about who is throwing, catching, running, and covering. Kubiak knows this, and that was his main focus last year. I hope it is a bigger focus this year. If Alan Branch is available, take him, and I don't want to hear your bull crap "I am tired of taking d linemen every year!" Well I am telling you this. As much of a Genetic Freak Mario Williams is, will Branch be, 6'6 and over 300? Ted Washington anyone? That takes away the middle for the run game, and that gives Demeco more of an oppurtunity to make plays.

Yup! Again!

By George I think they've got it........:yahoo:

Insideop
01-10-2007, 06:14 PM
Keep preaching Bro. I swear most folks are like a Bass, they just keep chasing that shinny object and then wonder why they get hooked. Ya have to build from the inside out and we have screwed the pooch on that for nearly 5 years. Made a start on correcting last off season, but still have a long way to go.

Edo, I'm with you and Pete on this one, and always have been. I know this is a weak draft for OT's, and we probably don't have a chance at Thomas, but I think we may have a chance at Joe Staley or Ryan Harris in the 2nd round. I really like Staley the more I read about him, and I think he would fit or ZB system really well. Just hope he's there in the 2nd. JMHO!