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View Full Version : GM Rick Smith Interview on 790


stickman713
01-06-2007, 06:53 PM
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/HOUSTON-TX/KBME-AM/Rick%20Smith.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=HOUSTON-TX&NG_FORMAT=sports&SITE_ID=589&STATION_ID=KBME-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=Morning_Show&PCAST_CAT=Sports_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Morning_Show_Podcast

Hmm Qb competition

GuerillaBlack
01-06-2007, 07:07 PM
Finally someone in the Texans organization critcizes Carr (at least a bit).

Trap_Star
01-06-2007, 07:17 PM
Of course they finally did it, seasons over. They were'nt gonna do it during the season.

Imatexanfan
01-06-2007, 07:19 PM
So whats up whats he sayin?! Carrs gone?!

TEXANRED
01-06-2007, 07:20 PM
I feel an obligation to build our football team into a championship caliber club.

I love this guy. I love the mentality that no ones job is safe and if you can't get the job done then I will find someone who can.

There are going to many bright years ahead of us.

Trap_Star
01-06-2007, 07:24 PM
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/HOUSTON-TX/KBME-AM/Rick%20Smith.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=HOUSTON-TX&NG_FORMAT=sports&SITE_ID=589&STATION_ID=KBME-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=Morning_Show&PCAST_CAT=Sports_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Morning_Show_Podcast

Hmm Qb competition

Thanks for the new sig...:ok:

Imatexanfan
01-06-2007, 07:31 PM
WOW seems like he's a lil "uncomfortable with Carr", maybe, just maybe get Vick if he is available?!:yes:

edo783
01-06-2007, 07:34 PM
Sounds like they are expecting to bring in a vet and a rookie QB to compete with Carr. Sounded like they are going to get 1-2 high end FAs. Said He expect that Spencer would make it back, but nothing garanteed at this point. Reviewing everything, coaches, player, scheme.

skillz24
01-06-2007, 07:39 PM
WOW seems like he's a lil "uncomfortable with Carr", maybe, just maybe get Vick if he is available?!:yes:

there is a reason atlanta never wins...it isn't their running staff, WR, defense, ST, and line. Now, that only means what?

hot pickle
01-06-2007, 07:39 PM
WOW seems like he's a lil "uncomfortable with Carr", maybe, just maybe get Vick if he is available?!:yes:

it would be really interesting to see vick a texan

im all for it, if we dont have to give up to much

hot pickle
01-06-2007, 07:40 PM
there is a reason atlanta never wins...it isn't their running staff, WR, defense, ST, and line. Now, that only means what?

umm ok...?

RTP2110
01-06-2007, 07:41 PM
Sweet, Carr's gone.

Trap_Star
01-06-2007, 07:41 PM
Sounds like they are expecting to bring in a vet and a rookie QB to compete with Carr. Sounded like they are going to get 1-2 high end FAs. Said He expect that Spencer would make it back, but nothing garanteed at this point. Reviewing everything, coaches, player, scheme.

Rick Smith gives me hope for a bright future. I really hope he delivers...:yahoo:

Doug
01-06-2007, 07:43 PM
Did I hear him correctly that they aren't just bringing in someone to compete but someone capable of beating him (Carr) for the job? I'm going to go back and listen again. Thanks for the post by the way, good listen. :)

Texans Pride
01-06-2007, 07:44 PM
GREAT INTERVIEW! I think this is going to be a very exciting offseason!

GO RICK SMITH, GO KUBES, AND GO TEXANS!

A Texan
01-06-2007, 07:45 PM
He was asked if he would when drafting or FA look for someone with "sizzle"; i.e. someone who would get the fans excited just by his own presense. He said something to the effect that winning would provide the "sizzle".

TEXANRED
01-06-2007, 07:51 PM
He was asked if he would when drafting or FA look for someone with "sizzle"; i.e. someone who would get the fans excited just by his own presense. He said something to the effect that winning would provide the "sizzle".

He said, I feel an obligation to build our football team into a championship caliber club.

Hit the nail right on the head.

hot pickle
01-06-2007, 07:55 PM
when does free agency start???

Doug
01-06-2007, 08:10 PM
Just some comments from the interview:

He stated that they were not pleased or comfortable with David's play throughout the season. There were things that Gary worked with him on during the season and some things he improved on and some he didn't.

They were going to try and get better at every position by bringing people for all positions to compete.

He doesn't foresee us not bringing in a qb to add to the mix to come in not necessarily to compete but try and beat David out as well.

I don't know who did the interview but he said:
So you're saying there may be someone here giving David competition but you're not ready to say if Carr will be here and a part of the competition?

Rick said that was a fair statement or something like that.

Just posting some of the interview for those who can't get it.

Honoring Earl 34
01-06-2007, 08:34 PM
They have'nt said he's gone but Smith and Kubiak sure have'nt endorsed him either . In fact thats the harshest statements I've heard about Carr outside this board in five years .

hot pickle
01-06-2007, 09:11 PM
date of free agency? anyone know?

cadahnic
01-06-2007, 09:23 PM
For those interested since I'm sure it is the main thing of interest in this interview:

Rick Smith - "We will certainly bring players in at each position and I don't foresee us not adding a QB to the mix to come in and not necessarily only compete but to maybe beat David out"
- "Your guess is there might be someone here that can give David competition but you're not ready to say whether or not Carr will be here and actually a part of that competition? Is that fair?"
Rick - "That's a fair assessment, yes. Absolutely, David Carr is under contract for two more years and he's our QB and that's where we are today. When I say that I also say that I will bring some other players in and will I bring a QB in or will we possibly draft a QB? absolutely. We've got all positions that are available for us to try to go out and get better at."
- "How big of a deal is that contract when talking about Carr's future with this team? Would money keep him here, would that be the biggest reason for keeping him here?
Rick - "Economics always plays a part in decisions. I don't think you can sit here and say it doesn't matter what his contract is like, which is why it is so important that you make good decisions and give guys good contracts and you negotiate contracts that you are comfortable with because you can't afford to make mistakes as it relates to economics in the NFL now with the salary cap. It does factor in to the equation. Is it the end all to be all? No it isn't because ultimately production and what you do on the football field is the most important thing."

Smith also says we should be ok in terms of salary cap and expects us to be active in free agency.

Says Bob McNair is committed to bringing a championship here.

Says they feel good about Charles Spencer's surgery and his recovery to his point. They are very encouraged by his recovery and were very pleased with how he was playing during the season and he has all the tools to play the position. He said that article had made it sound like they weren't thinking he'd be back next year, he explains that the thought process is you have to carry on as if he won't be able to be back but they still expect him to be ready to play.

Says the general area that our draft pick is in is traditionally pretty active in draft day trades. "That is an area where there is movement in the draft. I think there might be an opportunity for us to do that. I know that there is going to be a good football player at that spot. I feel good about where we are in the draft. I think it is going to allow us to go out and get a real good football player and maybe acquire a couple extra picks if we should move."

On drafting for need vs. best player available - "You assess your football team at the end of the year like we did and you identify some areas and positions that you feel you need to get better at so you have a couple opportunities to address those needs 1) free agency and 2) the draft. I think when you go into the draft you don't say 'we've got to get a particular position' because I think what happens when you go in that way you have a tendency to reach on players that might not have the value that you assess as you've gone throughout the process because you feel like you have to get at least one of those guys. So I think what you do is you evaluate across positions and you set your board and put value on your players and as the draft falls if you've got players that meet a need that you have valued at that particular pick then you feel great about that and you select them but you have to select where you've got players valued."

On whether he feels the pressure to get players that have "sizzle" and will make fans want to buy tickts and come watch just for that - "I feel the obligation to build our team into a championship football club. That's going to give the fans all the sizzle they need. Every decision that you see us make will be geared towards that (building a championship team)"


I really like this guy, he seems to really know his stuff and considering he's a rookie he seems very well spoken and like he's been on the job for decades.

date of free agency? anyone know?

First day or two of March is when expiring contracts from last year officially expire and you can negotiate with new free agents.

the wonger need food
01-06-2007, 09:33 PM
Finally, a glimmer of hope that production is going to take precedence over politics. Very refreshing if they are actually committed.

imatexan
01-06-2007, 09:48 PM
This gets me pumped!!

OzzO
01-06-2007, 09:48 PM
Good find stickman, and thanks for the mini-transcript cadahnic. For those unable to get the abov elink working, here's the podcast (http://www.790kbme.com/cc-common/podcast.html)site location for 790, look under Jan 5th.

I think he was a little more "middle of the road" that what it seems posted above, but those were defintely the words stated about our QB and the future of the position. In comparison to what he noted about 2 other specific players, Spencer and Ryans, there definitely was a difference between a "glowing" approval and a "hmmmm" approval.

Agree with above, heck of an interview (and interviewee) - not one single "ya know" heard like our previous umm... person that held a similar position.

OzzO
01-06-2007, 10:05 PM
date of free agency? anyone know?

Oh, and it's March 2nd by the way.

nflpa.org (http://www.nflpa.org/NewsAndEvents/ImportantDates.aspx)

Doug
01-06-2007, 10:32 PM
Good find stickman, and thanks for the mini-transcript cadahnic. For those unable to get the abov elink working, here's the podcast (http://www.790kbme.com/cc-common/podcast.html)site location for 790, look under Jan 5th.

I think he was a little more "middle of the road" that what it seems posted above, but those were defintely the words stated about our QB and the future of the position. In comparison to what he noted about 2 other specific players, Spencer and Ryans, there definitely was a difference between a "glowing" approval and a "hmmmm" approval.

Agree with above, heck of an interview (and interviewee) - not one single "ya know" heard like our previous umm... person that held a similar position.

You're right it did seem more middle of the road but it's a complete 180 from "Carr is our guy!".

TexanSam
01-06-2007, 10:48 PM
Good interview. He doesn't sound like the guy who sidesteps questions.

hot pickle
01-06-2007, 11:37 PM
Oh, and it's March 2nd by the way.

nflpa.org (http://www.nflpa.org/NewsAndEvents/ImportantDates.aspx)

seems so long away, they should have it start a week after the pro-bowl

GuerillaBlack
01-06-2007, 11:42 PM
seems so long away, they should have it start a week after the pro-bowl

This way it is only two weeks. :shades:

K.D.
01-06-2007, 11:46 PM
I don't know 'bout ya'll, but i LOVE this guy. H e don't beat around da bush. He pretty much answered da ? i was wondering bout. It's gonna b bout competition and playmakers, i can't wait til s##t start rolling. This offseason is gonna tell us bout our future. :stirpot:

Doug
01-06-2007, 11:49 PM
seems so long away, they should have it start a week after the pro-bowl

Actually, I kind of like the way things are a little spread out. You've got the playoffs in January, Super Bowl and Pro Bowl in February, Free agency in March, Draft in April. Toward the middle to end of May is when it really slows down for me but thank goodness for the NFL Network and this board, when someone has something to say, hahaha (Just barely gets me through). I lost my hair last year in June because of waiting on the preseason to start. At least that's what I tell myself (My wife says different).

hot pickle
01-07-2007, 12:44 AM
from the draft onto trainin camp is the longest wait and goes the slowest, cause we all wanna see how the rookies and FA are gonna play

Double Barrel
01-07-2007, 01:38 AM
Rick Smith is the anti-Casserly. He's down to Earth and very realistic about where the team is at and how they plan to proceed with building on what we've got. It's nice to have a head coach and GM working together, too.

SamuraiSword
01-07-2007, 02:19 AM
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/HOUSTON-TX/KBME-AM/Rick%20Smith.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=HOUSTON-TX&NG_FORMAT=sports&SITE_ID=589&STATION_ID=KBME-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=Morning_Show&PCAST_CAT=Sports_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Morning_Show_Podcast

Hmm Qb competition

Hmmmm he is saying bringing in a QB via FA and not trading for one to compete for the job. So I guess no trading for Vick is out of the question then. So all that is good enough out there is Plummer and Schaub in my opinion. Also drafting a QB was a sign as well and they talked about Russell. I just better not see Quinn being drafted he is way over rated. All in all I like this new GM and he is way better than that Caserly fellow.

whiskeyrbl
01-07-2007, 07:45 AM
Also nice when he was asked if he thought this year was a success due to us going from 2 to 6 wins. He said absolutely not. It's only a success when you meet your goals and we did not. Seems to be a straight shooter, thats not gonna sugar coat things. This man sounds like he is here for one thing "WINNING". For that I am thankful. Maybe we are only a year or two away (literally this time) from being a team in the mix at this time of year. ROCK ON SMITH, Take no prisoners!!!

AUSTexan
01-07-2007, 08:29 AM
Great listen for those of us not in H-town... thanks so much for the post!

Oh, and like all of you I'm thrilled by Rick's attitude & candor!

CowboysTexansFan
01-07-2007, 09:58 AM
Thanks very much for the link. Those who still back Carr and think it's a given he will return need to hear this interview. Smith makes it crystal-clear that David is on a VERY short leash now.

cadahnic
01-07-2007, 10:07 AM
Thanks very much for the link. Those who still back Carr and think it's a given he will return need to hear this interview. Smith makes it crystal-clear that David is on a VERY short leash now.

He never says anything about Carr not being here next year. Carr will have competition but he never once said Carr won't be here, in fact he said "David Carr is under contract for two more years and he's our QB and that's where we are today. When I say that I also say that I will bring some other players in and will I bring a QB in or will we possibly draft a QB? absolutely. We've got all positions that are available for us to try to go out and get better at."

We need to get better everywhere, this whole offseason isn't just about getting rid of David Carr, sorry to disappoint some of you.

Carr Bombed
01-07-2007, 10:41 AM
Kubiak and Rick Smith are winners, they have been and they will again. During the season there were people that took Kubiak to the woodshed. This was his first year and the only opinion him and Smith had on players were things they saw on tape. When your on the sideline things are alot more real, more prevalent, and more clear than what you see on tape.

This front office, which is a good one is about to cut the fat of this team. I used to think Casserly had a brilliant football mind, but he outsmarts himself and ends up making the wrong pick, the thing I like about Smith is he used to be a coach, has a coach's mind, and builds a team as such. People say and call us Denver south I can only hope we turn into Denver south, outside of Pittsburgh they have been the most consistent team in this league. If you need any kind of compass of what kind of quality Smith has the potential to be as a GM, just look at the "bandaids" he was able to pick up during the season when players went down, the guy has a great football mind.

I only hope McNair has as much patience with Kubiak and Smith as he has had and supplied Carr with.

Heath Shuler
01-07-2007, 10:46 AM
Best Texanís interview I have heard in a very long time. Finally someone holding Carr accountable. It gives me some hope that Carrís days are numbered.

Rick Smith has his work cut out for him; repairing the damage Casserly has done.

Runner
01-07-2007, 10:51 AM
I think I'll withhold judgement until I see if Smith's actions match his words.

Carr Bombed
01-07-2007, 10:59 AM
Smith didn't draft Carr or any other player not performing on this team and has no loyalty to them, so I have no doubts he isn't telling the truth and won't live up to his word.

Its cover your a@#, its in his best interest job wise to bring in the best players and replace the players that aren't performing, so why wouldn't he?

Runner
01-07-2007, 11:06 AM
Problems identifying talent, disagreements with other people in the process, ability to work with players/agents, etc. The same problems all GMs face - if it was easy to always make the right move there'd be little to discuss on boards like these.

I'm not going to call him a great GM until he builds some track record to evaluate.

Heath Shuler
01-07-2007, 11:08 AM
I think I'll withhold judgement until I see if Smith's actions match his words.

I guess it is diminished expectations (years & years of Casserly) but Iím just pleased to hear someone say that Carr is not meeting expectations.

Runner
01-07-2007, 11:11 AM
I guess it is diminished expectations (years & years of Casserly) but Iím just pleased to hear someone say that Carr is not meeting expectations.

I agree that statement is good to hear. I'm just saying that to me Smith is going to have to do more than that to be deemed successful. He has little track record here yet.

Carr Bombed
01-07-2007, 11:19 AM
I agree that statement is good to hear. I'm just saying that to me Smith is going to have to do more than that to be deemed successful. He has little track record here yet.

I'm not saying he's suuccessful and has earned the title of a successful GM in this league, but he had good success in a very tough division in the AFC west in there front office and made great decisions on players to pick up during the season. If all else fails, just tell yourself this, he's a hellva lot better then Charlie :ok:

Texian
01-07-2007, 11:35 AM
Many of you only hear and read what you want to read and hear. That is because of your bias. Smith was very general and basically said I am not going to tell you what we plan to do because I don't want it to have any bearing on the players we want to bring in and the negotiations with their contract. Smith was also very politically correct saying all the right things. Nothing said about Carr could not have been said every player on the Texans. Some of you even confused the questions with what Smith said. If you are trying to read the tea leaves or between the lines, Smith said Carr would be here, he is the starting QB. Carr will have competition next year and his contract is an important part of the equation but not the end all.

Try listening to it again without your bias, or temporarily change your bias and hear if the interview sounds the same. Don't go looking for something you want to hear and dismissing those things you don't agree with.

Good post Stickman rep coming your way.

hot pickle
01-07-2007, 11:51 AM
i hope rick smith has a good offseason, and the best thing about him is that he's young so he might be around for a long long time

go get em rick

Carr Bombed
01-07-2007, 12:05 PM
Many of you only hear and read what you want to read and hear. That is because of your bias. Smith was very general and basically said I am not going to tell you what we plan to do because I don't want it to have any bearing on the players we want to bring in and the negotiations with their contract. Smith was also very politically correct saying all the right things. Nothing said about Carr could not have been said every player on the Texans. Some of you even confused the questions with what Smith said. If you are trying to read the tea leaves or between the lines, Smith said Carr would be here, he is the starting QB. Carr will have competition next year and his contract is an important part of the equation but not the end all.

Try listening to it again without your bias, or temporarily change your bias and hear if the interview sounds the same. Don't go looking for something you want to hear and dismissing those things you don't agree with.

Good post Stickman rep coming your way.

I disagree with you Carr isn't guaranteed to be the starter, not anybody on his team is guaranteed.

Also Smith being politically correct is a good thing and the right thing seeing how he's about to make offseason moves. Through this interview he basically let everybody know that for the right price Carr is available..........contract be damned.

Again Smith didn't draft these players, theres no loyalty, theres no, "man I got to hold on to this guy and hope he blows up next year so I won't look like I drafted a bust". Smith doesn't have any busts on this team, again there is no loyalty. Its either perform, win, or I'll cut your a@#.......I'm sure Kubiak feels the same way, look how in their first year they treated T. Johnson another former 1st rounder

Heath Shuler
01-07-2007, 12:13 PM
Many of you only hear and read what you want to read and hear. That is because of your bias. Smith was very general and basically said I am not going to tell you what we plan to do because I don't want it to have any bearing on the players we want to bring in and the negotiations with their contract. Smith was also very politically correct saying all the right things. Nothing said about Carr could not have been said every player on the Texans. Some of you even confused the questions with what Smith said. If you are trying to read the tea leaves or between the lines, Smith said Carr would be here, he is the starting QB. Carr will have competition next year and his contract is an important part of the equation but not the end all.

Try listening to it again without your bias, or temporarily change your bias and hear if the interview sounds the same. Don't go looking for something you want to hear and dismissing those things you don't agree with.

Good post Stickman rep coming your way.

I am certain I heard this:
"We were definitely not comfortable, and not pleased with the play of David Carr this season..."-Rick Smith

That is enough for me. The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have a problem.

kingh99
01-07-2007, 12:16 PM
I disagree with you Carr isn't guaranteed to be the starter, not anybody on his team is guaranteed.

Also Smith being politically correct is a good thing and the right thing seeing how he's about to make offseason moves. Through this interview he basically let everybody know that for the right price Carr is available..........contract be damned.

Again Smith didn't draft these players, theres no loyalty, theres no, "man I got to hold on to this guy and hope he blows up next year so I won't look like I drafted a bust". Smith doesn't have any busts on this team, again there is no loyalty. Its either perform, win, or I'll cut your a@#.......I'm sure Kubiak feels the same way, look how in their first year they treated T. Johnson another former 1st rounder

Management can't be totally tough or guys will do stuff to get cut/traded and then you'll never get a solid team. You tolerate a certain amount of labor strife. Everyone doesn't have to address the owner as sir for the company to thrive. Doesn't mean you have to be disrespectful either, just "contemporary".

Now this is cool. I was checking Wikipedia for the Texans's roster and they don't have Sage Rosenfels listed as being on IR. In fact he's nowhere on the fact page! Fixing that!

Honoring Earl 34
01-07-2007, 12:16 PM
"We were definitely not comfortable, and pleased with the play of David Carr this season..."-Rick Smith


Texian ... where do you see warm fuzzies in this statement ?

Smith and Kubiak have their first chance to be a GM and Coach and I bet their going to be far less tolerant of Carr .

Heath you beat me to the punch .

yourfavoritetexan42
01-07-2007, 12:19 PM
Ive said it before I'll say it again, the only case I would like to see Carr go, is if we pickup Vick, or a better talent than Carr. Other than Vick, I do not see any better talent than Carr anywhere.

Plummer? No. However I would like to see him come in and just create some competition. But I would hate to see them get rid of carr and just give this guy a job.

Bledsoe? No.

Garcia? Good player, but old and we need someone with a future, not a past. Love the guy though.

Any Rookie QB? No. Right now none are capable (at our position in the draft, #8 overall) to start for our franchise. Say Brohm, Russel and Quinn entered the draft.

Raiders at #1 will take a qb. And between Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, and the Redskins, I think two qbs will be taken.


I think Smith is doing a fine job at GM. Something I would like to see him do is get a few good veteran free agents, or trade down with the patriots, or make a trade for a big time playmaker on offense. And solidfying our offensive line and its depth.

Carr Bombed
01-07-2007, 12:33 PM
Ive said it before I'll say it again, the only case I would like to see Carr go, is if we pickup Vick, or a better talent than Carr. Other than Vick, I do not see any better talent than Carr anywhere.

Plummer? No. However I would like to see him come in and just create some competition. But I would hate to see them get rid of carr and just give this guy a job.

Bledsoe? No.

Garcia? Good player, but old and we need someone with a future, not a past. Love the guy though.

Any Rookie QB? No. Right now none are capable (at our position in the draft, #8 overall) to start for our franchise. Say Brohm, Russel and Quinn entered the draft..............and he is YOUNG

Raiders at #1 will take a qb. And between Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, and the Redskins, I think two qbs will be taken.


I think Smith is doing a fine job at GM. Something I would like to see him do is get a few good veteran free agents, or trade down with the patriots, or make a trade for a big time playmaker on offense. And solidfying our offensive line and its depth.


When your making the transition for one QB to another, you need a vet whos holding on to a starting job.

Kurt Warner did it twice. K. Collins did it three times, (even though the Radiers didn't find the replacement, but A. Brooks holds that spot now)

Garcia was the fix for Detroit, didn't work out, now Kitna is the fix. Mark Brunell

There are plenty of QBs trying to hold on, and one can argue Briese was the fix for Jake and now Jake will quite possibly become the "fix" here and I have no problem with that.

point is when your making the change you don't keep the "faliure" which is what Carr will be if this FO doesn't trust or believe in him because he'll just become a player that the team won't believe in, it might of all ready happened.......we don't know

on I side note, as far as replacement QBs go and as much as people talk about trading for Matt Shaub, theres a name thats not being brought up and a QB that truly never got a fair shake or chance with the talent and coaching transition where he was at who has a good arm and in all honesty not that bad..........Patrick Ramsey. The guy wasn't a bad QB and didn't get nearly the shot David has, I wouldn't mind bringing him in............seriously

NATHANHALE
01-07-2007, 12:56 PM
I think I'll withhold judgement until I see if Smith's actions match his words.

...exactly!!!

Doug
01-07-2007, 01:17 PM
Many of you only hear and read what you want to read and hear. That is because of your bias. Smith was very general and basically said I am not going to tell you what we plan to do because I don't want it to have any bearing on the players we want to bring in and the negotiations with their contract. Smith was also very politically correct saying all the right things. Nothing said about Carr could not have been said every player on the Texans. Some of you even confused the questions with what Smith said. If you are trying to read the tea leaves or between the lines, Smith said Carr would be here, he is the starting QB. Carr will have competition next year and his contract is an important part of the equation but not the end all.

Try listening to it again without your bias, or temporarily change your bias and hear if the interview sounds the same. Don't go looking for something you want to hear and dismissing those things you don't agree with.

Good post Stickman rep coming your way.

Actually, I think you probably need to do the same. He said that Carr is the QB as of TODAY. He also said that it was a fair assesment that he wasn't ready to say whether Carr will be here and a part of the competition. Sorry , but that's a far cry from David is our QB and we're sticking with him (That's what we've heard all along). If they were so sure of David like they were at the beginning of the year why aren't we hearing that now? I don't think it's as much a part of people hearing what they want or making things out to be what they want, as it is a part of Kubiak and Smith giving people plenty to speculate about that wasn't there before.

Am I ready to say Carr is gone by Smith's comments? NO! But I also don't get the feeling that Carr is going to be here no matter what anymore. I can see now that Carr's free ride is over and that's good enough for me.

Tulip
01-07-2007, 01:34 PM
Ive said it before I'll say it again, the only case I would like to see Carr go, is if we pickup Vick, or a better talent than Carr. Other than Vick, I do not see any better talent than Carr anywhere.

The team doesn't necessarily need better talent than Carr. What it needs is leadership and on-field production. Without those things, talent doesn't have much value.

Runner
01-07-2007, 02:43 PM
"We were definitely not comfortable, and pleased with the play of David Carr this season..."-Rick Smith


... where do you see warm fuzzies in this statement ?



I can find the warm fuzzy - let me break down the statement.

We were definitely not comfortable

Ok, they aren't comfortable about something.

,

Comma - new thought

and pleased with the play of David Carr this season...

They are pleased with the play of David Carr.

--------------------------------------
However, lose the comma and then

We were definitely not comfortable and pleased with the play of David Carr this season...

And then they are neither comfortable nor pleased with David Carr's play.

How's that for parsing and spinning? :)

Honoring Earl 34
01-07-2007, 03:10 PM
I get it

What's this thing called love or what's this thing called , love .

CowboysTexansFan
01-07-2007, 03:12 PM
He never says anything about Carr not being here next year. Carr will have competition but he never once said Carr won't be here, in fact he said

We need to get better everywhere, this whole offseason isn't just about getting rid of David Carr, sorry to disappoint some of you.

I didn't say he said Carr wouldn't be here next year. I said he was on a very short leash, and he is. How else do you interpret the GM's comments as saying the team was not comfortable or pleased with Carr's play this season, and that the team could very well bring in via free agency or the draft another QB to challenge or unseat Carr.

CowboysTexansFan
01-07-2007, 03:16 PM
Many of you only hear and read what you want to read and hear. That is because of your bias. Smith was very general and basically said I am not going to tell you what we plan to do because I don't want it to have any bearing on the players we want to bring in and the negotiations with their contract. Smith was also very politically correct saying all the right things. Nothing said about Carr could not have been said every player on the Texans. Some of you even confused the questions with what Smith said. If you are trying to read the tea leaves or between the lines, Smith said Carr would be here, he is the starting QB. Carr will have competition next year and his contract is an important part of the equation but not the end all.

Try listening to it again without your bias, or temporarily change your bias and hear if the interview sounds the same. Don't go looking for something you want to hear and dismissing those things you don't agree with.

Good post Stickman rep coming your way.

Completely disagree with you on that. He said the team wasn't comfortable or satisfied with the way Carr had played this year. He would not have said that about Ryans, Johnson or others. On the contrary, the team has been effusive in its praise of Ryans.

tulexan
01-07-2007, 03:24 PM
What I got out of the interview was that the best case scenario for Carr on this team is that he is going to have to earn his job through competition. The worst case scenario (maybe the best for him really) is that he will be traded or cut.

TexansSB07
01-07-2007, 03:31 PM
WOW seems like he's a lil "uncomfortable with Carr", maybe, just maybe get Vick if he is available?!:yes:

BITE YOUR TONGUE

Ckw
01-07-2007, 03:35 PM
What I got out of the interview was that the best case scenario for Carr on this team is that he is going to have to earn his job through competition. The worst case scenario (maybe the best for him really) is that he will be traded or cut.

Good summary. Let's end the argument with this post. Nobody knows exactly what the FO is thinking. All we do know is there will definitely be competition whether that is through the draft, free agency, Rosenfels, or a mixture of the three. Everyone calling for Carr's head: exactly what NEEDS to be done will be done. We will not exalt David as OUR QB. He will have to prove himself more so than he did this season. All the Carr Homers: David is not gone, yet. If we cannot get enough for him in a trade, he will be here next year but will have to compete for his job. In my opinion as a guy who likes Carr personally, this is the best scenario. We probably won't get much for him in a trade so why not put his job on the line, give some other guys a shot, and see how David performs under pressure.

Texian
01-07-2007, 03:36 PM
I love it! You all proved my point. You heard what you wanted to hear and disregarded the rest. You took one statement and you hold it to be truth evident. Without the rest of the interview it is out of context. Now you know what it means when athletes and politicians say I was quoted out of context.

You took, 'certainly we are not comfortable and pleased with David Carr's play this season' as the coup de gras, and that he is gone and Rick Smith and Kubiak are liars and cheats if he is not.

You totallly disreguarded the comments 'David did some things well, David did not do some things well, David is our quarterback, we will bring in competition at that position either via FA or the draft, David salary is a consideration but it is not the end all. When you put this with the opening statement it takes on a different meaning.

fshaw
01-07-2007, 03:40 PM
Great interview. That guy is a class act and it makes me feel very confident that he and Kubiak will get this turned around. Which ever way they decide to go with the QB position I will support 100%. i get the impression that if David is the QB next year it will be because he is the best man for the job.

Ckw
01-07-2007, 03:47 PM
I love it! You all proved my point. You heard what you wanted to hear and disregarded the rest. You took one statement and you hold it to be truth evident. Without the rest of the interview it is out of context. Now you know what it means when athletes and politicians say I was quoted out of context.

You took, 'certainly we are not comfortable and pleased with David Carr's play this season' as the coup de gras, and that he is gone and Rick Smith and Kubiak are liars and cheats if he is not.

You totallly disreguarded the comments 'David did some things well, David did not do some things well, David is our quarterback, we will bring in competition at that position either via FA or the draft, David salary is a consideration but it is not the end all. When you put this with the opening statement it takes on a different meaning.

You are totally right with what he said, but don't you think you seem to be looking at it from the point of view that Carr will be back as our QB, and you seem to disregard that we will bring in competition? What this means in light of the "Carr is our QB" statement made by Smith is that Carr is our QB for now. Why? Because we have no one on the roster to replace him right now. Who knows whether or not he will be our QB after the draft or free agency. I personally believe he will be here next year, but I'm not so sure he'll be here as our starting QB. So I agree with you that people should not get too excited in thinking Carr is gone, but his time is limited. And don't think that if we get a killer offer for Carr, a 1st day pick, that we won't trade him. I am almost certain we would get rid of him, but the chances of that happening are slim. We'll just have to wait and see. Everything said now is speculation.

GP
01-07-2007, 03:56 PM
The only thing I see is that David is not the guranteed starter when camp starts.

It seems we've always brought in QBs who are traveling around the NFL as backups and with no real threat to become a starter.

Sounds to me like we're actually going to push David until he pushes back.

He won't be gone as some of you are thinking/hoping, but he'll have a guy running the same drills and this time the guy might be a Schaub or some other guy who is wanting a starting QB job. The thought of Rosenfels as the starter is a joke. I mean, seriously....as much as people dislike Carr, do they really think Rosenfels is the bona fide answer? I mean, seriously..........gotta' get real for a second here.

I used to be completely all "for" David. And I still am, to an extent. I want people to succeed, I don't root for them to fail just so that I can get more wins.

But I'm OK with David having to win his starter spot. And I would think that any competitor would want to know that they have truly earned their spot.

cadahnic
01-07-2007, 04:13 PM
Great interview. That guy is a class act and it makes me feel very confident that he and Kubiak will get this turned around. Which ever way they decide to go with the QB position I will support 100%. i get the impression that if David is the QB next year it will be because he is the best man for the job.

Finally a rational thought in this mess. This right here is about all you can definitively take away from this interview, at least regarding David Carr.

HoustonFrog
01-07-2007, 04:20 PM
Great interview. That guy is a class act and it makes me feel very confident that he and Kubiak will get this turned around. Which ever way they decide to go with the QB position I will support 100%. i get the impression that if David is the QB next year it will be because he is the best man for the job.

With the way McNair is I'm not sure of this. I still think adding this interview with the one I heard on 610 that they aren't sure with Carr and that they aren't even thinking he will be here for competition. The 790 ones seems to be one that was sent from above compared to what I heard on 610. JMO. As to a question above..is Rosenfels boa fide?Probably not as a long time starter but he looked better than Carr this year and I could handle him if they drafted someone to learn behind him. I'd rather another vet though.

Texian
01-07-2007, 04:27 PM
You are totally right with what he said, but don't you think you seem to be looking at it from the point of view that Carr will be back as our QB, and you seem to disregard that we will bring in competition?

Here is how I am looking at it, management is not satisfied with Carr's play and improvement in this season. Carr did somethings right and he did some things wrong. Therefore management will be bringing in other players at that position (QB) either via FA or the draft. As of right now Carr is the QB but there will be competition for that position. Competition as I understand it means the best man gets the job. Right now Smith, Kubiak, myself or anyone on this message board cannot definitevly say what the outcome will be. Carr has a big contract and that does play into the decision making but it is not the end all to any decisions regarding Carr.

I will not take any adverse or postive position against Smith if Carr is the starter, backup, traded or cut. My position is we need better play at the QB position. Is there anyone available who can provide that in 2007? I don't know.

dirty steve
01-07-2007, 04:28 PM
The 790 ones seems to be one that was sent from above compared to what I heard on 610. JMO. As to a question above..is Rosenfels boa fide?Probably not as a long time starter but he looked better than Carr this year and I could handle him if they drafted someone to learn behind him. I'd rather another vet though.
if you listen to that joke of a morning show on 790 they can't stop talking about how much they want Carr out of here. that show is really, really bad.

Doug
01-07-2007, 04:31 PM
I love it! You all proved my point. You heard what you wanted to hear and disregarded the rest. You took one statement and you hold it to be truth evident. Without the rest of the interview it is out of context. Now you know what it means when athletes and politicians say I was quoted out of context.

You took, 'certainly we are not comfortable and pleased with David Carr's play this season' as the coup de gras, and that he is gone and Rick Smith and Kubiak are liars and cheats if he is not.

You totallly disreguarded the comments 'David did some things well, David did not do some things well, David is our quarterback, we will bring in competition at that position either via FA or the draft, David salary is a consideration but it is not the end all. When you put this with the opening statement it takes on a different meaning.

Are you just trying to get a rise out of people? The comments by Smith in your last paragraph have been stated in this thread by other fans and with much more accuracy I might add. I've seen only one person state that this means Carr is gone by his own opinion of what was said. I haven't seen anyone state that if Carr isn't gone then Kubiak and Smith are cheats and liars. It sounds like you're the one taking quite a few things out of context. But hey that's just my opinion!

HoustonFrog
01-07-2007, 04:41 PM
Are you just trying to get a rise out of people? The comments by Smith in your last paragraph have been stated in this thread by other fans and with much more accuracy I might add. I've seen only one person state that this means Carr is gone by his own opinion of what was said. I haven't seen anyone state that if Carr isn't gone then Kubiak and Smith are cheats and liars. It sounds like you're the one taking quite a few things out of context. But hey that's just my opinion!

No, you aren't the only one to see it. In fact it is funny that a person talks about seeing what they want to see and then they tell people that they are taking things out of context when in reality we have no clue what Smith meant. So how do they know?I'm of the theory that if the guy is back and your guy then at least say it. I've heard two full interviews and just take that they are reevaluating. I did think that the 610 interview was a little more bent on, "we are disappointed." But again, we all have opinions. Nothing to call people out about.

A Texan
01-07-2007, 05:39 PM
For those interested since I'm sure it is the main thing of interest in this interview:

- "Your guess is there might be someone here that can give David competition but you're not ready to say whether or not Carr will be here and actually a part of that competition? Is that fair?"
Rick - "That's a fair assessment, yes.
It means just what it says. He's not ready to say whether Carr will be part of the competition. So anybody who says that Smith is saying that Carr will definitely BE here and part of the competition or anyone who says Smith said that Carr will defininitely NOT BE here are wrong.

the wonger need food
01-07-2007, 05:50 PM
Either way, we can all agree that this is the first time anyone in the organization has stepped up and questioned Carr's play. It's usually "well, he did some good things and he did some bad things".... blah, blah, blah. But Smith actually stated that they are not happy with Carr's play. That in itself is a very refreshing change and gives me a lot of hope that they are finally ready to start focusing on winning games instead of the current course of sacrificing everything to make their first pick look good.

NATHANHALE
01-07-2007, 07:04 PM
After a season that started after our first game with Kubiak saying Carr 'left a lot of opportunities' on the field, to a final game of a season spent 'dumb downing' the offense for Carr and throwing for 86 yds against the 31st ranked defense in the league--what will really happen with David?

What we heard from Smith is also what we heard from Kubiak last year about competition/best player plays/stepping up/whatever it takes to win one game at a time, etc. We know now this did not apply for Carr, as he was allowed to be 'coddled' under a different set of 'whatever.'

David has been a 'great' practice player and has done very well in training camps when he faces 'zero' pressure and minimal decision making, which means this should not be the 'only' arena for competition. Too, in the past, coaches (including Kubiak) have brought in many many QBs who were never given the 'light of day' to show their 'wares.'......talk about a 'fixed,rigged' competition!

My point is that-if Carr stays-the organization is going to have to make a 100% turn around from its QB evaluation of the past...we've heard the promises/rhetoric before, and I hope they're true this time--including bringing in 'viable' QB candidates (i.e., a player Kubiak would let take a snap in a game).

JMO, but-after 5 yrs and experiencing the 'final' passing of the '5 yr' plan-I'll believe it when I see it..........

old football fan
01-07-2007, 07:51 PM
I brlieve that Kubiak and Smith will do what is best for this team to start winning. If that means replacing past starters with new starters and getting more wins than that is great and I'm all for it, and if it means winning with some of the past starters then great again. When coaches talk about open competition the old starters always given an edge in the competition. In other words they are the starters UNTIL SOMEBODY BETS THEM OUT. But at the same time we have to many areas to upgrade to be overly concerned about one spot.

thunderkyss
01-07-2007, 08:07 PM
The only thing I see is that David is not the guranteed starter when camp starts.

The thought of Rosenfels as the starter is a joke. I mean, seriously....as much as people dislike Carr, do they really think Rosenfels is the bona fide answer? I mean, seriously..........gotta' get real for a second here.


This is a joke..... seriously QB play couldn't have been worse this year.

Well other than David's performance last year.

Quinton Porter would have been a serious alternative.

Hulk75
01-07-2007, 08:14 PM
"David Carr is under contract two more years, and he's our quarterback. That's where we are today," Smith said. "Now when I say that, I'll also say I'm going to try and bring some other players in and whether I bring a QB or will we possibly draft a QB, absolutely. We've got all positions that are available for us to go out and try to get better at."

In other words he does not want people to get complacent, they were saying the samething last year, but now that this is magnified, its whats hot.

Did they not say they were looking at every possition last year?

Great, Just like Sage last year right?

When you stop seeing me around here then you can worry or rejoice.

cadahnic
01-07-2007, 08:24 PM
This is a joke..... seriously QB play couldn't have been worse this year.

Well other than David's performance last year.

Quinton Porter would have been a serious alternative.

Correction, he could have played like Jake Plummer this year (or Andrew Walter, Ben Roethlisberger, Alex Smith, Charlie Frye, Joey Harrington, etc.)

Tulip
01-07-2007, 08:24 PM
When you stop seeing me around here then you can worry or rejoice.

Have you ever worked at a job where someone in your department was fired? If not, let me give you a big hint - the person being fired is usually the last one to know.

I'm not saying that Carr is going to be cut or traded, but I am saying that I don't think you will have very much advance notice if he is.

CowboysTexansFan
01-07-2007, 08:52 PM
In other words he does not want people to get complacent, they were saying the samething last year, but now that this is magnified, its whats hot.

Did they not say they were looking at every possition last year?

Great, Just like Sage last year right?

When you stop seeing me around here then you can worry or rejoice.

Smith also said the team was not comfortable or pleased with Carr's play this season. To my knowledge, nobody in the Texans' front office has ever said that about Carr before. That makes Smith's recent comments very different from what has been said before.

Peace.

thunderkyss
01-07-2007, 09:01 PM
Correction, he could have played like Jake Plummer this year (or Andrew Walter, Ben Roethlisberger, Alex Smith, Charlie Frye, Joey Harrington, etc.)

different maybe..... I wouldn't say worse, but definitely different.

edo783
01-07-2007, 09:48 PM
And if there is competition for QB (as there should be) and Carr does win the starting job (I seem to remember a few folks complaining about no compitition) then would that be good for everyone? I bet we would hear:

1. It was rigged because McNair wanted him

2. They just put him there because he is was #1 pick

3. They did it because he makes to much money

4. It was due to poor quality of compitition

I'm sure there will be others, but I thought I would toss those out to prime the pump so to speak.

Texian
01-07-2007, 09:54 PM
I'm sure there will be others, but I thought I would toss those out to prime the pump so to speak.

You are right, but prepare for your lambasting for stirring this pot.:stirpot:

NATHANHALE
01-07-2007, 10:02 PM
And if there is competition for QB (as there should be) and Carr does win the starting job (I seem to remember a few folks complaining about no compitition) then would that be good for everyone? I bet we would hear:

1. It was rigged because McNair wanted him

2. They just put him there because he is was #1 pick

3. They did it because he makes to much money

4. It was due to poor quality of compitition

I'm sure there will be others, but I thought I would toss those out to prime the pump so to speak.

First, there has to be some basis of fair evaluation. Everyone should have equal time with the #1 defense, instead of Carr getting all-or the majority-of first team reps. Too, what factors determine the 'winner?' In pre-season games-especially last year-Carr has been out played--did the team even score a TD while he was in?

So, what does another QB have to do to 'beat' Carr out? If another QB has 'lights out' pre-season stats (including tds) and Carr has another 'zilch' pre-season but is declared the 'starter,' what would the reasons be??

Yes, you started a good list above...

valleytexfan
01-07-2007, 10:36 PM
I'm excited...I love the job Rick Smith's doing...we're gonna get a winner in Houston, baby!!!:yes:

edo783
01-07-2007, 11:03 PM
First, there has to be some basis of fair evaluation. Everyone should have equal time with the #1 defense, instead of Carr getting all-or the majority-of first team reps. Too, what factors determine the 'winner?' In pre-season games-especially last year-Carr has been out played--did the team even score a TD while he was in?

So, what does another QB have to do to 'beat' Carr out? If another QB has 'lights out' pre-season stats (including tds) and Carr has another 'zilch' pre-season but is declared the 'starter,' what would the reasons be??

Yes, you started a good list above...

So, what are the exact standards that you want the team to use? Do they have to make them public to satisfy you? If not made public, how would you know what the critera are? How will you know they are using standards at all? My point is, you won't know and some will just assume that if he is starting that it was bogus and then snival about it. IMO, most of the complaining about a lack of compitition was just talk and comes from those that believe Carr is just a piece of Do-Do and couldn't beat out a 3rd string HS QB, much less an NFL grade one, so they wanted the comp as they expect him to lose. They can not imagine that he could possibly win a shootout and if he does win, they won't accept it as it does't match up with their preconcived ideas. By the way, I am fully in favor of a shootout that gets us the best QB we have on the field, whom ever that may be.

thunderkyss
01-07-2007, 11:14 PM
So, what are the exact standards that you want the team to use? Do they have to make them public to satisfy you? If not made public, how would you know what the critera are? How will you know they are using standards at all? My point is, you won't know and some will just assume that if he is starting that it was bogus and then snival about it. IMO, most of the complaining about a lack of compitition was just talk and comes from those that believe Carr is just a piece of Do-Do and couldn't beat out a 3rd string HS QB, much less an NFL grade one, so they wanted the comp as they expect him to lose. They can not imagine that he could possibly win a shootout and if he does win, they won't accept it as it does't match up with their preconcived ideas. By the way, I am fully in favor of a shootout that gets us the best QB we have on the field, whom ever that may be.

let me put it this way.

If Carr does win, then we need to go back to square one. Fire the headcoach again. Fire the GM... none of this wait till after the next draft & let him resign crap. Fire anybody in any office that looks like a scout. & run McNair out of Houston, and beg Bud Adams to come back.

If they want Carr to start. That's fine, I don't care. Just like this year, they can say he's the QB. they can say they want to give David every opportunity to succeed. They can say the will do what ever it takes to make David Carr successfull.

But if they tell us that they couldn't find us a better QB, someone that gives us a chance to win..... then it's time to protest. time to riot. Time to start looting downtown houston.

cadahnic
01-07-2007, 11:21 PM
First, there has to be some basis of fair evaluation. Everyone should have equal time with the #1 defense, instead of Carr getting all-or the majority-of first team reps. Too, what factors determine the 'winner?' In pre-season games-especially last year-Carr has been out played--did the team even score a TD while he was in?

So, what does another QB have to do to 'beat' Carr out? If another QB has 'lights out' pre-season stats (including tds) and Carr has another 'zilch' pre-season but is declared the 'starter,' what would the reasons be??

Yes, you started a good list above...

Playing time is generally won starting in May with the OTAs, minicamps, and then training camp not to mention all of the meetings in between. By that point they generally have a pretty good idea who their main guy is, so their #1 playing decent in the preseason vs. the backup putting up much better numbers against the 2nd and 3rd string players from another team is not going to change the coaches' opinions very much. The coaches see a lot more of the players than we ever get to and can make much more informed decisions regarding that than we do, not to mention they understand their system and what they're looking for better than we do.

thunderkyss
01-07-2007, 11:32 PM
let me put it this way.

If Carr does win, then we need to go back to square one. Fire the headcoach again. Fire the GM... none of this wait till after the next draft & let him resign crap. Fire anybody in any office that looks like a scout. & run McNair out of Houston, and beg Bud Adams to come back.

If they want Carr to start. That's fine, I don't care. Just like this year, they can say he's the QB. they can say they want to give David every opportunity to succeed. They can say the will do what ever it takes to make David Carr successfull.

But if they tell us that they couldn't find us a better QB, someone that gives us a chance to win..... then it's time to protest. time to riot. Time to start looting downtown houston.


That is of course unless we find out that David has been putting in some extra work in the off season that is..

Say Steve McNairs mini camp or something to that affect.

NATHANHALE
01-08-2007, 02:11 AM
Playing time is generally won starting in May with the OTAs, minicamps, and then training camp not to mention all of the meetings in between. By that point they generally have a pretty good idea who their main guy is, so their #1 playing decent in the preseason vs. the backup putting up much better numbers against the 2nd and 3rd string players from another team is not going to change the coaches' opinions very much. The coaches see a lot more of the players than we ever get to and can make much more informed decisions regarding that than we do, not to mention they understand their system and what they're looking for better than we do.

My point is that Carr was handed the starting job from day 1, and the team has never brought in any competition to push him in any way/shape/form, so what is going to be different now--if Carr is still here? No other QB has ever been given a 'chance' to beat out Carr (after he was given the starting job) or even given decent playing time.

Unfortunately, we have never had a 'blow out' game where the HC replaced Carr because we'd scored so many points.....and the point about playing against 1-2-3rd teamers in pre-season needs to be spread around to give folks a fair chance.

NATHANHALE
01-08-2007, 02:21 AM
So, what are the exact standards that you want the team to use? Do they have to make them public to satisfy you? If not made public, how would you know what the critera are? How will you know they are using standards at all? My point is, you won't know and some will just assume that if he is starting that it was bogus and then snival about it. IMO, most of the complaining about a lack of compitition was just talk and comes from those that believe Carr is just a piece of Do-Do and couldn't beat out a 3rd string HS QB, much less an NFL grade one, so they wanted the comp as they expect him to lose. They can not imagine that he could possibly win a shootout and if he does win, they won't accept it as it does't match up with their preconcived ideas. By the way, I am fully in favor of a shootout that gets us the best QB we have on the field, whom ever that may be.

We're in a catch-22 situation here in that whoever is our QB has to play at an acceptable NFL level that gives the team a chance to succeed and move forward, which means we better hope the team finds some QBs that fit that 'genere.' If Carr is the best we can do ,and he continues to play same-o/same-o then-like TK said-we're back to square 1.

JMO, but Carr is an 'albatross' and this team needs to find him a new home, giving 'everyone' a 'fresh' start.....

Malloy
01-08-2007, 06:53 AM
I don't know about y'all, but I was REALLY amazed by the interviewer, intelligent questions, diplomatic... pretty damn smart!

real
01-08-2007, 07:54 AM
In other words he does not want people to get complacent, they were saying the samething last year, but now that this is magnified, its whats hot.

Did they not say they were looking at every possition last year?

Great, Just like Sage last year right?

When you stop seeing me around here then you can worry or rejoice.

I heard the interview live, and that isn't the vibe I got....

In fact he flat out said that David didn't perform up tp where they wanted him to...He flat out said that David learned some things that coach Kubiak schooled him on, and other things he didn't grasp too well....

The difference in bringing in Sage last year, and bringing in someone new this year, is that he also flat out said that they will bring in some talent to not only compete with David, but to compete for the starting spot...

David didn't have any competition for his starting spot this past season...

I'll be flat out and frank with you....Listening to the interview live, you get the feeling that Carr won't be the starting QB for us, if he's here at all....Your post suggest that Carr will basically be in the same boat he was in last year (I'm not sure why you'd want that other than to say "I told you so") and that couldn't be further from the truth...

Malloy
01-08-2007, 08:27 AM
I'll be flat out and frank with you....Listening to the interview live, you get the feeling that Carr won't be the starting QB for us, if he's here at all....Your post suggest that Carr will basically be in the same boat he was in last year (I'm not sure why you'd want that other than to say "I told you so") and that couldn't be further from the truth...

I tend to agree, this might very well be the situation. One way to 'deal' with the Carr salary would be to keep him here as our backup... Backup to someone else coming in this off-season.

coachdent
01-08-2007, 09:11 AM
Lost admidst this calvalcade of love and admiration towards Smith and Kubiak for holding Carr to a higher standard and bringing in competition and "thank God we have someone to fix THE ONLY problem" is this...

1/27/06
From his limited exposure to Carr the past four seasons, Kubiak said he is excited about the opportunity to work with the four-year veteran.

"I've been fortunate to be around two Hall of Famers in John Elway and Steve Young," Kubiak said. "And watching them learn how to get there, it took John 14 years to win a championship, but he kept fighting. (Broncos quarterback) Jake Plummer came to us from Arizona, and a lot of people didn't think that he could get it done. But you surround him with good people who work hard and he came close. He's going to get better.

"David has to do his part and I have to do my part in getting him ready to play, but I promise you I'll find a way to make him successful because it's in him. We have to get the people around him to help him out."

"But you are right from the standpoint that I'm a David Carr fan. I watch him work, I know what kind of skills he has and I know as a coach what you've got to have to work with in this league to win.

"And there's no reason why David shouldn't be a very successful quarterback. That's my job, that's my challenge and I can't wait to get going with it."

I agree that Carr did not have a good season. No question.
I know that the TEAM did not have a great season. No question.

I also know that Kubiak brought in his system and tried to force Carr to run that system. One of the things that coaches must do is take their system and either force the players to adapt to the system or adapt your system to the players. There is absolutely no question whatsoever that Kubiak did absolutely nothing to adapt his sytem to Carr's strengths. None!

What can Carr do? He can use his legs. He can move. If you have a guy who has "happy feet", you don't put him in the pocket 25 times a game. You move him and take advantage of his skills. We did not.

Look at other West coast teams and what they do. Philly last night: running FOUR WIDES, ROLLING OUT, SPREADING OUT THE DEFENSE. We did NONE of that this year. NONE.

Carr is not a West Coast offense quarterback. One of the things that they say in Philly with Andy Reid is that his West coast offense is incredibly complex. For years he has said that it takes between 3 and 4 YEARS for guys to pick up his system. Carr had one year in a "system" that had two divergent philosophies pulling it (Sherman / Kubiak) and neither of them utilized his skills.

The nonsensical posters :tease: who go out of their way on a daily basis to rip, ridicule and sodomize David Carr really need to take just a simple step back to reality and spread the blame here with a much wider brush. They have and undoubtedly will here too, go to great extremes to label anyone "defending" Carr as a Carr apologist or whatever. They ignore anything and everything that may contribute to his poor play and put it all on Carr. That's what quarterbacks do. They get all the blame when you lose and all of the praise when you win. Except if you are David Carr, then you get all of the blame when you win too. And also except if you're Vince Young, then you get the praise when you win, when you win and play like crap and your defense wins and also when you lose...but that's another animal (or enima) completely.

If David Carr was in a spread offense or elements of the spread were incoroprated into our offense, his play would dramatically increase. If nothing is done in the offseason to take advantage of his attributes and solely focus on his negatives, then there is no point in keeping him around.

I try to keep my Carr comments to a minimum on this board because the discussions are so tedious and so much the same. Every once in a while, I break out and drop a comment. Bring on the screamers and those totally disimmissive of reality and Carr bash away! But to put it on some bumper stickers....

He ain't that bad.
You've got to do some things that he does well.
You've got to surround him with some friggin' talent and playmakers!

real
01-08-2007, 09:31 AM
1/27/06
From his limited exposure to Carr the past four seasons, Kubiak said he is excited about the opportunity to work with the four-year veteran.

"I've been fortunate to be around two Hall of Famers in John Elway and Steve Young," Kubiak said. "And watching them learn how to get there, it took John 14 years to win a championship, but he kept fighting. (Broncos quarterback) Jake Plummer came to us from Arizona, and a lot of people didn't think that he could get it done. But you surround him with good people who work hard and he came close. He's going to get better.

"David has to do his part and I have to do my part in getting him ready to play, but I promise you I'll find a way to make him successful because it's in him. We have to get the people around him to help him out."

"But you are right from the standpoint that I'm a David Carr fan. I watch him work, I know what kind of skills he has and I know as a coach what you've got to have to work with in this league to win.

"And there's no reason why David shouldn't be a very successful quarterback. That's my job, that's my challenge and I can't wait to get going with it."



wow....

Heywood
01-08-2007, 09:39 AM
And if there is competition for QB (as there should be) and Carr does win the starting job (I seem to remember a few folks complaining about no compitition) then would that be good for everyone? I bet we would hear:

1. It was rigged because McNair wanted him

2. They just put him there because he is was #1 pick

3. They did it because he makes to much money

4. It was due to poor quality of compitition

I'm sure there will be others, but I thought I would toss those out to prime the pump so to speak.

it's comp-E-tition.

nobody i'm aware of thought he was given a free pass with the rosenfels signing last off-season. in fact, everyone i read felt it was designed to push carr. had the texans been open-minded enuf to understand how good VY is, they prob would not have exercised carr's option.

real
01-08-2007, 09:48 AM
nobody i'm aware of thought he was given a free pass with the rosenfels signing last off-season.

I did.

I think this will be the first year that the position is "actually" up for grabs...

Heywood
01-08-2007, 09:52 AM
I did.

I think this will be the first year that the position is "actually" up for grabs...

well i stand corrected.

rosenfels was the top backup QB available on the market- the texans would have had to bring in drew brees to upgrade over what they did.

real
01-08-2007, 10:02 AM
well i stand corrected.

rosenfels was the top backup QB available on the market- the texans would have had to bring in drew brees to upgrade over what they did.

So you think David earned his spot this past season ?

El Tejano
01-08-2007, 10:23 AM
Well I am just glad to hear our GM actually say things and give us more info on what he thinks of our team. It shows we aren't alone when we feel this team is in need.

Heywood
01-08-2007, 10:23 AM
So you think David earned his spot this past season ?

i think the rosenfels signing was a 2-year proposition- get someone in who could take over midseason or next year. which he might have done had he not gotten hurt.

real
01-08-2007, 10:29 AM
i think the rosenfels signing was a 2-year proposition- get someone in who could take over midseason or next year. which he might have done had he not gotten hurt.

ok...

I agree with that...

I just don't think that their was a competition to start out...I think David was going to be the starting QB going into last season whether or whether not someone outplayed him for the position...

Going into this season, if he's still with the team, I think for the first time he's going to have to earn his spot...

old football fan
01-08-2007, 10:30 AM
Lost admidst this calvalcade of love and admiration towards Smith and Kubiak for holding Carr to a higher standard and bringing in competition and "thank God we have someone to fix THE ONLY problem" is this...

1/27/06
From his limited exposure to Carr the past four seasons, Kubiak said he is excited about the opportunity to work with the four-year veteran.

"I've been fortunate to be around two Hall of Famers in John Elway and Steve Young," Kubiak said. "And watching them learn how to get there, it took John 14 years to win a championship, but he kept fighting. (Broncos quarterback) Jake Plummer came to us from Arizona, and a lot of people didn't think that he could get it done. But you surround him with good people who work hard and he came close. He's going to get better.

"David has to do his part and I have to do my part in getting him ready to play, but I promise you I'll find a way to make him successful because it's in him. We have to get the people around him to help him out."

"But you are right from the standpoint that I'm a David Carr fan. I watch him work, I know what kind of skills he has and I know as a coach what you've got to have to work with in this league to win.

"And there's no reason why David shouldn't be a very successful quarterback. That's my job, that's my challenge and I can't wait to get going with it."

I agree that Carr did not have a good season. No question.
I know that the TEAM did not have a great season. No question.

I also know that Kubiak brought in his system and tried to force Carr to run that system. One of the things that coaches must do is take their system and either force the players to adapt to the system or adapt your system to the players. There is absolutely no question whatsoever that Kubiak did absolutely nothing to adapt his sytem to Carr's strengths. None!

What can Carr do? He can use his legs. He can move. If you have a guy who has "happy feet", you don't put him in the pocket 25 times a game. You move him and take advantage of his skills. We did not.

Look at other West coast teams and what they do. Philly last night: running FOUR WIDES, ROLLING OUT, SPREADING OUT THE DEFENSE. We did NONE of that this year. NONE.

Carr is not a West Coast offense quarterback. One of the things that they say in Philly with Andy Reid is that his West coast offense is incredibly complex. For years he has said that it takes between 3 and 4 YEARS for guys to pick up his system. Carr had one year in a "system" that had two divergent philosophies pulling it (Sherman / Kubiak) and neither of them utilized his skills.

The nonsensical posters :tease: who go out of their way on a daily basis to rip, ridicule and sodomize David Carr really need to take just a simple step back to reality and spread the blame here with a much wider brush. They have and undoubtedly will here too, go to great extremes to label anyone "defending" Carr as a Carr apologist or whatever. They ignore anything and everything that may contribute to his poor play and put it all on Carr. That's what quarterbacks do. They get all the blame when you lose and all of the praise when you win. Except if you are David Carr, then you get all of the blame when you win too. And also except if you're Vince Young, then you get the praise when you win, when you win and play like crap and your defense wins and also when you lose...but that's another animal (or enima) completely.

If David Carr was in a spread offense or elements of the spread were incoroprated into our offense, his play would dramatically increase. If nothing is done in the offseason to take advantage of his attributes and solely focus on his negatives, then there is no point in keeping him around.

I try to keep my Carr comments to a minimum on this board because the discussions are so tedious and so much the same. Every once in a while, I break out and drop a comment. Bring on the screamers and those totally disimmissive of reality and Carr bash away! But to put it on some bumper stickers....

He ain't that bad.
You've got to do some things that he does well.
You've got to surround him with some friggin' talent and playmakers!

I agree with most of what you said, BUT they did have Carr rolling out and used a spread offense at the begining of the season when Carr was doing good. They went away from it and Carr got worse. Carr is not a good pocket passer.

real
01-08-2007, 10:34 AM
I agree with most of what you said, BUT they did have Carr rolling out and used a spread offense at the begining of the season when Carr was doing good. They went away from it and Carr got worse. Carr is not a good pocket passer.

Yeah...

and the quote is from a year ago...

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 10:56 AM
well i stand corrected.

rosenfels was the top backup QB available on the market- the texans would have had to bring in drew brees to upgrade over what they did.

If the Texans were serious about bring in competition for Carr they would have tried to sign Brees or Kitna or Culpepper. Instead they brought in a career backup to be a backup.

HoustonFrog
01-08-2007, 11:00 AM
The only thing the interview and 6 pages of posts has convinced me is that it will be another long year with the guy on board and it will benefit the Texans, Carr and the fans if this question is not lingering ALL the time. Split ways and let the chips fall.

Texans_Chick
01-08-2007, 11:05 AM
If the Texans were serious about bring in competition for Carr they would have tried to sign Brees or Kitna or Culpepper. Instead they brought in a career backup to be a backup.

You can't ignore the economics of the situation given the salary cap. Smith acknowledges that in the interview.

Also, Rosenfels is a bright, athletic QB who fit the system.

The short version is that the Texans are going to get the best players they can get at all the positions taking into account the salary cap. It is the same mantra that Kubiak had last season as far as trying to increase quality depth and improve competition at every position. (Two areas he identified as problems with the Texans).

He has another year to do this and more information about the players he has.

HOU-TEX
01-08-2007, 11:06 AM
ok...

I just don't think that their was a competition to start out...I think David was going to be the starting QB going into last season whether or whether not someone outplayed him for the position...

Going into this season, if he's still with the team, I think for the first time he's going to have to earn his spot...

I agree. IMO, Carr was going to be the starter for the season for evaluation. I think the whole season was about evaluating various positions. I think we're going to witness alot of changes this offseason.

old football fan
01-08-2007, 11:07 AM
You can't ignore the economics of the situation given the salary cap. Smith acknowledges that in the interview.

Also, Rosenfels is a bright, athletic QB who fit the system.

The short version is that the Texans are going to get the best players they can get at all the positions taking into account the salary cap. It is the same mantra that Kubiak had last season as far as trying to increase quality depth and improve competition at every position. (Two areas he identified as problems with the Texans).

He has another year to do this and more information about the players he has.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

real
01-08-2007, 11:20 AM
It is the same mantra that Kubiak had last season as far as trying to increase quality depth and improve competition at every position.


I think this is true....

But the difference between this season and last season will be that he's spent a season with this team, and has formed opinions about certain players abilities and limitaions...

For instance....The GM and coach will both say "positions are up for grabs, and we will be brininging in competition at every position"....What else would they say ?

But in reality we know that certain players have their spots locked up for the start of next season, no matter what happens between now and then....

But you're right, it's nothing new about this mode of thinking....Just his opinions about some players...

coachdent
01-08-2007, 11:39 AM
To go from 2-14 to 6-10 is a really nice turnaround to start. A different quarterback in Houston this past season does not make us a playoff team. That is incredibly far fetched.

I would say that next season is an important one and with the hopeful additions at positions of need as well as a firmer hold on the consistency of our offense, that next season is another season of important evaluations. A three year plan to the playoffs is what I envision. This was year one. Next year would be the push to the playoff year and year three would be putting the Texans in the playoffs as a strong wildcard.

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 11:42 AM
You can't ignore the economics of the situation given the salary cap. Smith acknowledges that in the interview.

Also, Rosenfels is a bright, athletic QB who fit the system.

The short version is that the Texans are going to get the best players they can get at all the positions taking into account the salary cap. It is the same mantra that Kubiak had last season as far as trying to increase quality depth and improve competition at every position. (Two areas he identified as problems with the Texans).

He has another year to do this and more information about the players he has.


Kitna signed with Detroit for about $4 milliion per, so he was definitely affordable. Is there any doubt that he is a huge upgrade over Carr... and much cheaper.

Kubiak says a lot of great things about Rosenfels... things that he should be saying about Carr. But he is a career backup. If there was true competition Rosenfels would have won the job during the first Tennessee game and kept it throughout the remainder of the season. Instead, Kubiak went back to Carr.

Doug
01-08-2007, 11:43 AM
Everyone is going to have their own opinion of what the interview says to them, just like when someone posts an article about the team and there's difference's of opinion on that. Regardless of what happens with Carr, I think it's going to be a fun and crazy offseason. Between Kubiak turning down the opportunity to coach the Senior Bowl and Rick Smith's interviews, I can see that these guys are doing everything they can and putting their focus on making this team better. I honestly believe that they want to build something they can be proud of and we as fans can be proud of in Houston. JMO.

thunderkyss
01-08-2007, 11:45 AM
I agree that Carr did not have a good season. No question.
I know that the TEAM did not have a great season. No question.

I also know that Kubiak brought in his system and tried to force Carr to run that system.


What can Carr do? He can use his legs. He can move. If you have a guy who has "happy feet", you don't put him in the pocket 25 times a game. You move him and take advantage of his skills. We did not.

Look at other West coast teams and what they do. Philly last night: running FOUR WIDES, ROLLING OUT, SPREADING OUT THE DEFENSE. We did NONE of that this year. NONE.

Carr is not a West Coast offense quarterback. One of the things that they say in Philly with Andy Reid is that his West coast offense is incredibly complex. For years he has said that it takes between 3 and 4 YEARS for guys to pick up his system. Carr had one year in a "system" that had two divergent philosophies pulling it (Sherman / Kubiak) and neither of them utilized his skills.


If David Carr was in a spread offense or elements of the spread were incoroprated into our offense, his play would dramatically increase. If nothing is done in the offseason to take advantage of his attributes and solely focus on his negatives, then there is no point in keeping him around.

I try to keep my Carr comments to a minimum on this board because the discussions are so tedious and so much the same.

This is probably the best Pro-David Carr post I've ever read on this MB. & that's cool lord knows he needs someone in his corner who knows what they are talking about. Instead of the plain old...... "give him a ProBowl OL, RB, WR, TE & a shut down defense & he can win some games for you" homers. In which, the answer is, "duh, so can I".




He ain't that bad.
You've got to do some things that he does well.
You've got to surround him with some friggin' talent and playmakers!

in the last two years, what have you seen that he does well??

I'm not being funny. I'm serious. What have you seen that he's done well?? I want to know from an honest objective fan, what does David Carr do well??

this "lets surround him with some talent" is getting old. we've changed every position two times over, we've had two head coaches, three offensive coordinators, one offensive quality control manager, two GMs, & one player/personell consultant say that we can win with the players we've been putting on the field. There's only been one constant, & as far as I can tell, the offenses(three OCs...... four if you count Sherman) have been scaled back & simplified for that one constant.

So sell me on David Carr. Tell us what he's done in the last 3 years that makes you think he can get'r done. Because unlike some, I have no doubt in my mind that David Carr will be our starting QB come Sept '07, and I'd love to have something solid to make me feel good about that.

You say we need to put him in the gun, you say we need to run more spread techniques in our offense?? You say we haven't done so......

I ask you why haven't we?? Why can't our starting QB call audibles?? why did we find out that our HC was against audibles after we saw our backup QB audible in 2 preseason games?? Why is it that we didn't see the shotgun, or a true 5 wide receiver set in the regular season till after our backup QB employed them successfully against Dallas..... and why were such things so rare afterwards?? Why doesn't our starting QB throw out of the shotgun??

Why does our QB Guru(who everyone else defends as a QB Guru) seem to glow when he is talking about our Backup QB.... he's down right giddy, and never at a loss of words when he talks about the things he can do, and what he brings to the team.... But when he talks about our starting QB, he's careful about what he says, on edge, and seems to rather talk about something(anything) else.

coachdent
01-08-2007, 11:56 AM
Kitna signed with Detroit for about $4 milliion per, so he was definitely affordable. Is there any doubt that he is a huge upgrade over Carr... and much cheaper.


YES there is are significant doubts over Kitna being an "huge upgrade over Carr"!

First off all, Kitna was fortunate enough to play in a what??? A SPREAD OFFENSE! The most QB freindly offense there is. Mike Martz has truly taken very normal quarterbacks and has had them put up monster numbers.

Kitna did throw 21 touchdowns, but he did also throw 22 interceptions!
Kitna was sacked 63 times this year!!!!
He fumbled 9 times!!!!

Carr was sacked 41 times and lost 7 fumbles and you want to castrate him. How is John Kitna viewed to be a savior and a huige miss for this franchise?

Prior to Detroit, he was in Cincy for two years as a backup and played in a grand total of 7 games. I don't recall this huge call to arms for some of that John Kitna love last offseason. Why was that? Because he was and is a borderline stiff! Put Carr in Detroit in that offense and he puts up better numbers than Kitna. Huge upgrade over Carr:tease: ....yeah....
Actually..:secret:.. No!

El Tejano
01-08-2007, 12:01 PM
We all have to remember that they are going to mention putting competition at EVERY position to not give away negotiations at draft time.

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 12:01 PM
YES there is are significant doubts over Kitna being an "huge upgrade over Carr"!

First off all, Kitna was fortunate enough to play in a what??? A SPREAD OFFENSE! The most QB freindly offense there is. Mike Martz has truly taken very normal quarterbacks and has had them put up monster numbers.

Kitna did throw 21 touchdowns, but he did also throw 22 interceptions!
Kitna was sacked 63 times this year!!!!
He fumbled 9 times!!!!

Carr was sacked 41 times and lost 7 fumbles and you want to castrate him. How is John Kitna viewed to be a savior and a huige miss for this franchise?

Prior to Detroit, he was in Cincy for two years as a backup and played in a grand total of 7 games. I don't recall this huge call to arms for some of that John Kitna love last offseason. Why was that? Because he was and is a borderline stiff! Put Carr in Detroit in that offense and he puts up better numbers than Kitna. Huge upgrade over Carr:tease: ....yeah....
Actually..:secret:.. No!

21 TD's, almost 60 completions over 20 yards.... yeah, I would say that he is a huge upgrade.

Mr teX
01-08-2007, 12:16 PM
The backup is always favored over the guy starting unless you have a flat out stud at the position & we only have arguably 3 of those on the whole team! I've come to the realization that DC can be no more than a "caretaker" for Us with a flash of playmaking every so often. Maybe if he went somewhere else, he could get a fresh start or his confidence back but, He's just too messed up in the head & by time Kubes finishes sorting out all that mush, his career would be pretty much over.

having said that, Kitna definitely is NOT an upgrade over Carr. just a Journeyman QB with a WHOLE other set of problems that are different from Carr's. Same Lyrics, different beat.

coachdent
01-08-2007, 12:16 PM
This is probably the best Pro-David Carr post I've ever read on this MB. & that's cool lord knows he needs someone in his corner who knows what they are talking about. Instead of the plain old...... "give him a ProBowl OL, RB, WR, TE & a shut down defense & he can win some games for you" homers. In which, the answer is, "duh, so can I".

in the last two years, what have you seen that he does well??

I'm not being funny. I'm serious. What have you seen that he's done well?? I want to know from an honest objective fan, what does David Carr do well??

this "lets surround him with some talent" is getting old. we've changed every position two times over, we've had two head coaches, three offensive coordinators, one offensive quality control manager, two GMs, & one player/personell consultant say that we can win with the players we've been putting on the field. There's only been one constant, & as far as I can tell, the offenses(three OCs...... four if you count Sherman) have been scaled back & simplified for that one constant.

So sell me on David Carr. Tell us what he's done in the last 3 years that makes you think he can get'r done. Because unlike some, I have no doubt in my mind that David Carr will be our starting QB come Sept '07, and I'd love to have something solid to make me feel good about that.

You say we need to put him in the gun, you say we need to run more spread techniques in our offense?? You say we haven't done so......

I ask you why haven't we?? Why can't our starting QB call audibles?? why did we find out that our HC was against audibles after we saw our backup QB audible in 2 preseason games?? Why is it that we didn't see the shotgun, or a true 5 wide receiver set in the regular season till after our backup QB employed them successfully against Dallas..... and why were such things so rare afterwards?? Why doesn't our starting QB throw out of the shotgun??

Why does our QB Guru(who everyone else defends as a QB Guru) seem to glow when he is talking about our Backup QB.... he's down right giddy, and never at a loss of words when he talks about the things he can do, and what he brings to the team.... But when he talks about our starting QB, he's careful about what he says, on edge, and seems to rather talk about something(anything) else.

First of all, I am not one who lines up in the corner of Kubiak being a Qb guru. For much of the things that you outlined. Ultimately a coach must improve the player. What has he improved?

Carr's biggest problem in the first four years was that he would constantly force the ball into double coverage and would often throw the ball up for grabs, especially when it came to AJ. This was often done by design and was ingrained into him by Chris Palmer amongst others. I think Carr has gotten out of that tendency this season and has been far more selective in when he takes chances and throws the ball up for grabs.

Having said that, this has also led to Carr holding onto the ball entirely too long at times and at others making the decision to throw the tough ball. So there's your negative.

David Carr is one of the best running quarterbacks in the NFL. He can push the edge and run and give defenses fits on the outside. The ONLY way we get him to the outside is on bootlegs and naked bootlegs. We need to run more of those but also roll him out and give him RUN then pass options. (See: Atlanta, Tennessee).

When he is given time and a pass route that employs viable threats, Carr can deliver the ball. Look at the quarterbacks in the NFL and the fact is that none of them perform their best with people in their face and not one of them has to deal with BS two tight end, fullback sets on third and long. NONE! You have the games on dvr, go through the games nad look at our third down sets. Yeah, don't alibi for Carr...blame it all on him...but watch how many times you see two tight ends on the friggin' field on third down. Count how many times you see twins LEFT. NO ONE in this league runs that set more than we do. No one. It is absolute garbage and it is really difficult to judge a quarterback when he is in that kind of an offense.

Pop in the Tennessee game and watch our sets BEFORE Carr was injured and then look at the offensive sets AFTER he was injured and let me know if you see anything different. Sit down and watch the offense and see if you see a difference. Don't give me this BS about Sage being a savior and Carr being a bum after watching that objectively. Why the two different offenses? Why open it up with Sage and run this ball control, establish the run to set up the pass deal with Carr?

For the Texans sake and my sake as a fan, I want him out of here because the fans don't see the problems and don't want to acknowledge anything contributing to his failures other than he sucks. He needs a change of scenery and we need to turn the page. I don't think that there are a ton of options out there, but you see what you can do and move on. I think he would rip it up in a spread offense and I hope that he finds one. That is the only spot where I think you can evaluate him completely.

To reverse the conversation and questions for all of those who harp on me "defending" Carr, let me pose this:

*Give me the rationale for the Twins Left set being run 65% of the time.
*Give me the rationale and QB guruness in having two tight ends and a fullback on the field on third and 9. Be sure to tell me which teams employ this set on third and long and are successful.

Answer me those two questions and you are absolutely right in blaming every single problem on David Carr. But if you can open up to at least a fraction of culpability on idiotic playalling and perhaps other factors coming into play with poor quarterback play, then this enlightenment might lead everyone to a little better perspective on "Ocho Stinko".

coachdent
01-08-2007, 12:19 PM
21 TD's, almost 60 completions over 20 yards.... yeah, I would say that he is a huge upgrade.

DO
YOU
UNDERSTAND
THAT
HE
PLAYS
IN
A
SPREAD?

DOES THIS NOT MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?

Roy Williams
Mike Williams
Corey Bradford
Kevin Jones


Yeah those weapons are soooo much like Houston!

Mr teX
01-08-2007, 12:24 PM
First of all, I am not one who lines up in the corner of Kubiak being a Qb guru. For much of the things that you outlined. Ultimately a coach must improve the player. What has he improved?

Carr's biggest problem in the first four years was that he would constantly force the ball into double coverage and would often throw the ball up for grabs, especially when it came to AJ. This was often done by design and was ingrained into him by Chris Palmer amongst others. I think Carr has gotten out of that tendency this season and has been far more selective in when he takes chances and throws the ball up for grabs.

Having said that, this has also led to Carr holding onto the ball entirely too long at times and at others making the decision to throw the tough ball. So there's your negative.

David Carr is one of the best running quarterbacks in the NFL. He can push the edge and run and give defenses fits on the outside. The ONLY way we get him to the outside is on bootlegs and naked bootlegs. We need to run more of those but also roll him out and give him RUN then pass options. (See: Atlanta, Tennessee).

When he is given time and a pass route that employs viable threats, Carr can deliver the ball. Look at the quarterbacks in the NFL and the fact is that none of them perform their best with people in their face and not one of them has to deal with BS two tight end, fullback sets on third and long. NONE! You have the games on dvr, go through the games nad look at our third down sets. Yeah, don't alibi for Carr...blame it all on him...but watch how many times you see two tight ends on the friggin' field on third down. Count how many times you see twins LEFT. NO ONE in this league runs that set more than we do. No one. It is absolute garbage and it is really difficult to judge a quarterback when he is in that kind of an offense.

Pop in the Tennessee game and watch our sets BEFORE Carr was injured and then look at the offensive sets AFTER he was injured and let me know if you see anything different. Sit down and watch the offense and see if you see a difference. Don't give me this BS about Sage being a savior and Carr being a bum after watching that objectively. Why the two different offenses? Why open it up with Sage and run this ball control, establish the run to set up the pass deal with Carr?

For the Texans sake and my sake as a fan, I want him out of here because the fans don't see the problems and don't want to acknowledge anything contributing to his failures other than he sucks. He needs a change of scenery and we need to turn the page. I don't think that there are a ton of options out there, but you see what you can do and move on. I think he would rip it up in a spread offense and I hope that he finds one. That is the only spot where I think you can evaluate him completely.
To reverse the conversation and questions for all of those who harp on me "defending" Carr, let me pose this:

*Give me the rationale for the Twins Left set being run 65% of the time.
*Give me the rationale and QB guruness in having two tight ends and a fullback on the field on third and 9. Be sure to tell me which teams employ this set on third and long and are successful.

Answer me those two questions and you are absolutely right in blaming every single problem on David Carr. But if you can open up to at least a fraction of culpability on idiotic playalling and perhaps other factors coming into play with poor quarterback play, then this enlightenment might lead everyone to a little better perspective on "Ocho Stinko".

I've been saying this for about 3 months now.

real
01-08-2007, 12:29 PM
I think he would rip it up in a spread offense and I hope that he finds one. That is the only spot where I think you can evaluate him completely.


That's not our system....That's not what we run....

Carr probably has suffered some because of outside circumstances....

But he has also struggled because of himself...

Runner
01-08-2007, 12:30 PM
Pop in the Tennessee game and watch our sets BEFORE Carr was injured and then look at the offensive sets AFTER he was injured and let me know if you see anything different. Sit down and watch the offense and see if you see a difference. Don't give me this BS about Sage being a savior and Carr being a bum after watching that objectively. Why the two different offenses? Why open it up with Sage and run this ball control, establish the run to set up the pass deal with Carr?


Why indeed. Why does this coaching staff do this now, and why did the previous regime do similar simplification for the last 1.5 years of their tenure? The answers to these questions would clarify many things. Is it Carr? The surrounding talent? The coaching?

The same questions, over and over.

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 12:31 PM
DO
YOU
UNDERSTAND
THAT
HE
PLAYS
IN
A
SPREAD?

DOES THIS NOT MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?

Roy Williams
Mike Williams
Corey Bradford
Kevin Jones


Yeah those weapons are soooo much like Houston!

I
Don't
Care
What
Offense
He
Runs


It doesn't matter. He is a better NFL QB than Carr based on his production. Detroit does not have to gameplan for the QB to not lose the game for them.

Those "weapons" look almost identical to Houston's. Actually, Houston's WR corp is much better than Detroit's. Anytime someone describes Mike Williams and Corey Bradford as "weapons" they are definitely stretching.

Mr teX
01-08-2007, 12:36 PM
I
Don't
Care
What
Offense
He
Runs


It doesn't matter. He is a better NFL QB than Carr based on his production. Detroit does not have to gameplan for the QB to not lose the game for them.

Those "weapons" look almost identical to Houston's. Actually, Houston's WR is much better than Detroit's. Anytime someone describes Mike Williams and Corey Bradford as "weapons" they are definitely stretching.


Wow, just wow.

eriadoc
01-08-2007, 12:39 PM
A job? Yeah right. He's riding the Carr family gravy train.

What purpose does this post serve?

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 12:47 PM
Wow, just wow.

So... Mike Williams and Corey don't have 25 catches between the 2 of them and Kevin Jones barely has more yards than Ron Dayne. Who has the better players around them? Carr or Kitna.

coachdent
01-08-2007, 12:56 PM
So... Mike Williams and Corey don't have 25 catches between the 2 of them and Kevin Jones barely has more yards than Ron Dayne. Who has the better players around them? Carr or Kitna.

You wouldn't be happy with Williams x2 and Kevin Jones over Dayne, AJ and Moulds?

Your previous comment about you not caring about what offense they run is extremely obvious. How can you dismiss the production from a player based on his system? If you can't acknowledge that, then there is a major problem in your evaluation of players. Very fantasy footballish if you ask me.

Anyone who fails to mention that Jeb Putzier, Owen Daniels and Mark Bruner have any business being on a football field at the same time on third down is definitely "stretching"

Mr teX
01-08-2007, 01:02 PM
So... Mike Williams and Corey don't have 25 catches between the 2 of them and Kevin Jones barely has more yards than Ron Dayne. Who has the better players around them? Carr or Kitna.

They are even as far as i'm concerned.

coachdent
01-08-2007, 01:04 PM
Why indeed. Why does this coaching staff do this now, and why did the previous regime do similar simplification for the last 1.5 years of their tenure? The answers to these questions would clarify many things. Is it Carr? The surrounding talent? The coaching?

The same questions, over and over.

I haven't heard anyone question Kubiak for his ultra conservative, non- imaginative approach. Have they on 610? Have they in the papers? It seems to me that it has been dogpile on Carr.

The previous regime had an offense far more ridiculous than this one. It was horrible.

We spent our draft picks on defense and brought in an aging, possession wide receiver with no wheels. We brought in a nice tight end who can catch the ball. We brought in a wide receiver who never saw the field in Kevin Walter. We had an offensive line that once again was hampered by injuries and a lack of cohesiveness. But once again....:sarcasm: it is all about Carr.

Honoring Earl 34
01-08-2007, 01:08 PM
Why the two different offenses? Why open it up with Sage and run this ball control, establish the run to set up the pass deal with Carr?

This is what he ask .

coachdent
01-08-2007, 01:12 PM
They are even as far as i'm concerned.

And what is the mitigating circumstances in comparing the two quarterbacks? Um...perhaps the system????

Using the wonger's rationale, Colt Brennan is the hands down #1 pick in the NFL draft. Becuase you know offensive schemes have NOTHING to do with how a quarterback plays and what kind of numbers he puts up.

Brady Quinn couldn't hold Colt's jock! No comparison! And guess what? Who has the better weapons Wonger? Notre Dame or Hawaii? Kinda flies in the face of your logic doesn't it?

Do you see how that doesn't matter at all? Do you see how while you dismiss the idea of the offense having nothing to do with the performance of the quarterback, that in actually it has EVERYTHING to do with his performance?

Systems are huge and systems need to incorporate the attributes and skill so fhte quarterback into the system. Kubiak did not do that well this year. As I pointed out with his own words, he said that he could and would.

Mr. White
01-08-2007, 01:12 PM
Why the two different offenses? Why open it up with Sage and run this ball control, establish the run to set up the pass deal with Carr?

This is what he ask .

The 8 million dollar question....

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 01:14 PM
You wouldn't be happy with Williams x2 and Kevin Jones over Dayne, AJ and Moulds?

Your previous comment about you not caring about what offense they run is extremely obvious. How can you dismiss the production from a player based on his system? If you can't acknowledge that, then there is a major problem in your evaluation of players. Very fantasy footballish if you ask me.

Anyone who fails to mention that Jeb Putzier, Owen Daniels and Mark Bruner have any business being on a football field at the same time on third down is definitely "stretching"

Mike Williams has a total of 37 catches and 2 TD's in his entire career. There isn't a person on the face of the planet (other than you) that would take that x2 over AJ and Moulds, who have how many Pro Bowls between them. You could make the argument that R. Williams and Mike Furrey are a better tandem. But Mike Williams x2? You have seriously exposed your lack of alleged expertise here coach.

I don't care who is on the field, an NFL QB's job is to produce. Jon Kitna threw twice as many TD's and almost 3X more passes over 20 yards with very similar weapons and probably a worse offensive line.

So now Carr's excuse is the "version" of the offense that's being run? Give us all a break and stop apologizing for this guy's pathetic play.

coachdent
01-08-2007, 01:14 PM
Why the two different offenses? Why open it up with Sage and run this ball control, establish the run to set up the pass deal with Carr?

This is what he ask .

I have no idea.

THEN....almost as if to say, "oh yeah...we open it up and look what happens?" We go out against Oakland...at the time one of the worst rush defenses in the league... and we throw the ball something like 8 times on our first 10 plays. What kind of script is that against a putrid run defense? This is the game where my man Vonta came in and where Dayne went cocoa for Cocoa Puffs!

Just really squirrely playcalling and gameplanning.

real
01-08-2007, 01:16 PM
If you can't acknowledge that, then there is a major problem in your evaluation of players. Very fantasy footballish if you ask me.


I'm confused by this statement...

You have been going on and on about the spread offense and the "productivity" of a QB, but then you end this statement with the bolded text above....

To me it seems as if you have been the one harping on stats...You keep saying his numbers would go up if he was in a spread offense


It doesn't matter what system is "more friendly to QB's"...We don't run the spread offense, so that's pretty much not relevant...If that's the only system that he can be successful in, that further demonstrates why he shouldn't be OUR QB...

Runner
01-08-2007, 01:20 PM
But once again....:sarcasm: it is all about Carr.

Careful painting everyone with the all about Carr brush. I've much more frequently posted about problems other than Carr and rarely participated in the Carr threads until lately. I have posted a lot about the o-line and have questioned coaching decisions - including their ultra-conservatism - throughout the year.


What is your answer to why the offensive play calling changed with Sage at the controls? Coaching error? Coaches out to make Carr look bad? Carr having some responsibility? Something else?

real
01-08-2007, 01:20 PM
You wouldn't be happy with Williams x2 and Kevin Jones over Dayne, AJ and Moulds?


are you serious ?

Honoring Earl 34
01-08-2007, 01:23 PM
Using the wonger's rationale, Colt Brennan is the hands down #1 pick in the NFL draft. Becuase you know offensive schemes have NOTHING to do with how a quarterback plays and what kind of numbers he puts up.

This is what happened at UH with Ware and Klinger . They put up monster numbers and were both top 10 picks in the draft but neither panned out .

To me a passing oriented offense in a smaller conference will always make a QB look a lot better than they are ... why ... because all the good cover corners play in the SEC or the big schools and there's not a whole lot of teams that pass first .

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 01:23 PM
And what is the mitigating circumstances in comparing the two quarterbacks? Um...perhaps the system????

Using the wonger's rationale, Colt Brennan is the hands down #1 pick in the NFL draft. Becuase you know offensive schemes have NOTHING to do with how a quarterback plays and what kind of numbers he puts up.

Brady Quinn couldn't hold Colt's jock! No comparison! And guess what? Who has the better weapons Wonger? Notre Dame or Hawaii? Kinda flies in the face of your logic doesn't it?

Do you see how that doesn't matter at all? Do you see how while you dismiss the idea of the offense having nothing to do with the performance of the quarterback, that in actually it has EVERYTHING to do with his performance?

Systems are huge and systems need to incorporate the attributes and skill so fhte quarterback into the system. Kubiak did not do that well this year. As I pointed out with his own words, he said that he could and would.


David Carr threw approximately 25% less passes than Kitna, yet Kitna threw almost 100% more TD's and nearly 300% more 20+ yard passes. What does that tell you?

coachdent
01-08-2007, 01:23 PM
Mike Williams has a total of 37 catches and 2 TD's in his entire career. There isn't a person on the face of the planet (other than you) that would take that x2 over AJ and Moulds, who have how many Pro Bowls between them. You could make the argument that R. Williams and Mike Furrey are a better tandem. But Mike Williams x2? You have seriously exposed your lack of alleged expertise here coach.

I don't care who is on the field, an NFL QB's job is to produce. Jon Kitna threw twice as many TD's and almost 3X more passes over 20 yards with very similar weapons and probably a worse offensive line.

So now Carr's excuse is the "version" of the offense that's being run? Give us all a break and stop apologizing for this guy's pathetic play.

Give yourself a break and open your eyes to the fact that there is more to Ocho's stinko play that just the ever eye opening....HE SUCKS!

Moulds is on the downside of his career...for sure. As a group it is at least a push because Detroit's back is just a tad better than ours. As far as expertise goes, you are the one who compared Ron Dayne to Kevin Jones. Ok....

Kitna threw the ball 154 times more than Carr did, so his numbers are obviously going to be better. He also threw a pick every 27 times he went back to pass and Carr threw one every 36 times. A big difference, but again...not what you want to hear or address or comment on. You apparently ok with a guy who fumbles more and who is also about a mobile as a parapalegic blind turtle. But hey...who am I to question your talent evaluations?

Apparently John Kitna is the cure to all ills. I'll alert Canton.

Mr. White
01-08-2007, 01:25 PM
I think just about everyone around here would take our receivers over Detroit's.

Andre Johnson > Roy Williams
Eric Moulds > Mike Williams

After they draft Calvin Johnson (we're talking about Matt Millen here,) it'll probably be a different story.

coachdent
01-08-2007, 01:26 PM
Careful painting everyone with the all about Carr brush. I've much more frequently posted about problems other than Carr and rarely participated in the Carr threads until lately. I have posted a lot about the o-line and have questioned coaching decisions - including their ultra-conservatism - throughout the year.


What is your answer to why the offensive play calling changed with Sage at the controls? Coaching error? Coaches out to make Carr look bad? Carr having some responsibility? Something else?

I have no idea. The game was out of hand and I think Kubes just decided to open it up and go balls to the wall... I only know that we hadn't run anything like that before and we didn't since.

real
01-08-2007, 01:27 PM
Using the wonger's rationale, Colt Brennan is the hands down #1 pick in the NFL draft. Becuase you know offensive schemes have NOTHING to do with how a quarterback plays and what kind of numbers he puts up.


I'm really failing to understand what "numbers" have to do with judging how good a QB is ?

Of course different systems allow more "numbers"...

What does that have to do with anything ?

Honoring Earl 34
01-08-2007, 01:32 PM
Kubiak ... I'm sure has got to be scratching his head as a coach . I'm sure he would have thought that the offense would improve greatly because of him ... now it seems the defense is going to carry the team .

As CoachDent says ... Carr is not a WCO QB ... if thats the case does Kubiak know another offense well enough to change or is Carr talented enough to make him want to change ?

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 01:33 PM
Give yourself a break and open your eyes to the fact that there is more to Ocho's stinko play that just the ever eye opening....HE SUCKS!

Moulds is on the downside of his career...for sure. As a group it is at least a push because Detroit's back is just a tad better than ours. As far as expertise goes, you are the one who compared Ron Dayne to Kevin Jones. Ok....

Kitna threw the ball 154 times more than Carr did, so his numbers are obviously going to be better. He also threw a pick every 27 times he went back to pass and Carr threw one every 36 times. A big difference, but again...not what you want to hear or address or comment on. You apparently ok with a guy who fumbles more and who is also about a mobile as a parapalegic blind turtle. But hey...who am I to question your talent evaluations?

Apparently John Kitna is the cure to all ills. I'll alert Canton.


Dayne had almost as many yards as Jones with about 30 less carries.

I want to clarify this for everyone... you would take Mike Williams x2 and Kevin Jones over AJ, Moulds and Dayne? For the record here.

Kitna fumbles more than Carr??? Again, you're losing it here coach. Kitna had 5 less fumbles than Carr this past season.

And Kitna had almost as many rushing yards as Carr with a better yard per carry average.

Again, Kitna had only 25% more passes with 100% more TD's and 300% more 20+ yard passes.

And Detroit didn't have to gameplan around Kitna because they were worried about him losing the game for them.


So how is Carr better than Kitna?

Honoring Earl 34
01-08-2007, 01:34 PM
I have no idea. The game was out of hand and I think Kubes just decided to open it up and go balls to the wall... I only know that we hadn't run anything like that before and we didn't since.


Does it have anything to do with a broken right thumb ?

Hulk75
01-08-2007, 01:36 PM
Have you ever worked at a job where someone in your department was fired? If not, let me give you a big hint - the person being fired is usually the last one to know.

I'm not saying that Carr is going to be cut or traded, but I am saying that I don't think you will have very much advance notice if he is.

lol: lol: lol: ...............Keep you hopes up I guess, if he sucks so bad he will not be here next year so what do you have to worry about.

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 01:44 PM
Kitna threw the ball 154 times more than Carr did, so his numbers are obviously going to be better. He also threw a pick every 27 times he went back to pass and Carr threw one every 36 times. A big difference, but again...not what you want to hear or address or comment on. You apparently ok with a guy who fumbles more and who is also about a mobile as a parapalegic blind turtle. But hey...who am I to question your talent evaluations?

Apparently John Kitna is the cure to all ills. I'll alert Canton.


I forgot to address this earlier.

Yes, Kitna threw more interceptions. Carr does not throw as many because he does not throw the ball downfield. By comparison, 2 rookies (Leinart and Young) with a lot less starts had 10 more completions for over 20 yards than Carr.

It's very hard to get intercepted when you're throwing hitch passes and 5-yard slants 90% of the time.

ATX
01-08-2007, 02:03 PM
I want to clarify this for everyone... you would take Mike Williams x2 and Kevin Jones over AJ, Moulds and Dayne? For the record here.


I think he's talking about Roy Williams X2, not Mike.

real
01-08-2007, 02:05 PM
I think he's talking about Roy Williams X2, not Mike.

WilliamsX2 = Mike +Roy

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 02:12 PM
I think he's talking about Roy Williams X2, not Mike.

That makes more sense, but I can't see anyone taking a guy with 37 career catches over Moulds, no matter how old he is.

Either way, Carr and Kitna's "weapons" are very comparable. And Detroit's line might be worse than ours. Yet somehow Kitna managed to outproduce Carr in every category.

And this isn't the only case. Just about every QB in the league outproduced Carr this past season and people continue to make excuses and apologize for his pathetic play. It just doesn't make any sense.

GP
01-08-2007, 02:21 PM
Maybe all the different gameplans and playcalling styles all season long was to see where the current players best "fit in" and to therefore give our coaching staff a way to measure (A) What we have and (B) What we need?

Wouldn't you say that the ground-and-pound running game with Leach at FB has led them to say to themselves, "Well, Vonta Leach is a keeper..."?

And maybe they see that Dayne is useful against certain teams with poor run tackling, so "Maybe we keep Dayne as a bruiser because he and Leach are blowing it up...."?

That whittles things down: Now there's no question about "if" Dayne and Leach are going to be in camp this year. Now, it's about the Lundy/Taylor problem. Which is the better back for us? Or is this a timeshare ala Mike Bell and Tatum Bell? Knowing Kubiak, he'll keep both Lundy AND Taylor as insurance just as the Broncos have with their RBs for the past decade. But at least the coaches know, by virtue of using Dayne/Leach in a few games toward the end of the season, that this is a beneficial combination that we need to hold onto.

I look at the various gameplanning and playcalling all season long, and really it looks so messed up from week-to-week. It actually looked like, IMO, as if Kubiak was using the entire 2006 season just as an evaluation tool to grade the players and make larger and more "dangerous" personnel moves this offseason than he could have made this time last year.

Every new boss/manager has to see what he's inherited before going bonkers on the roster moves. Or at least that's what I think a "smart" new boss/manager does. You might have some hidden nuggets like Leach that needed a little polishing before you knew it was gold sitting right in front of you. Have you noticed Jameel Cook lately? Me neither. He might be depth at this point, but he couldn't produce like Leach could produce. Niow, he might not just fit in to our system...it happens...but nonetheless he is not going to be taking the field anytime soon with Kubiak as coach.

That's what I like about Kubiak: Leach produced, and Leach stays on the field until he doesn't produce. It's what Carr will now face, if we are interpreting Rick Smith's comments correctly: Produce on the field, and you win the job.

At first, I was concerned about our ever-changing gameplans and playcalling. But now I think there's potentially something "there" that's very strategic and calculating: He MIGHT be evaluating the whole team instead of trying to force-feed his team HIS way of doing things like most coaches do when they first arrive. Capers had a way of doing things when we came to Houston, and he stuck with it from the start to the bitter end, no wavering whatsoever. Kubiak just might be rolling out different looks to see which style(s) his team is better at.

It makes sense to do things your way, from the very start, because you think "your way" is the winning way. It's human nature to think "you" have the answers. But maybe there are times when you see a team, as Kubiak saw Houston, and you think to yourself "Let's see how they handle Green Bay's style of run blocking..." Kubiak wasn't egotistical when in the preseason we switched from zone to straight-ahead blocking...he humbled himself and chose to see if Sherman's idea woud work. Just a thought.

If so, then he's a fairly smart cat if you ask me.

hollywood_texan
01-08-2007, 02:22 PM
Here are Carr's averages by year:

Year---- Comp----Att---- Yards----TDs---- INTs----
2002---- 15------ 28----- 162----- 0.6---- 0.9----
2003---- 14------ 25----- 168----- 0.8---- 1------
2004---- 18------ 29----- 221----- 1------ 0.9----
2005---- 16------ 26----- 156----- 0.9---- 0.7----
2006---- 19------ 28----- 173----- 0.7---- 0.8----

He has three 300 yard games, thrown 2 TDs in a game seven times, and thrown 3 TDs in a game three times over something like 76 games or so.

The number speak for themselves. One year of Kubiak proved marginal improvement for Carr's play over the entire season.

I am amazed all the Carr supporters will make excuses why Carr is not as successfull and continue on to make excuses why other QBs are successful.

It seems obvious what the Texans have to do if they want to keep Carr. Get a legit Left Tackle and a stud running back. Otherwise, we are going to get the same stats as above and still in the same mess as last year. Everything has been changed around Carr expect for the offensive line and a very dependable stud running back.

My prediction is that it doesn't matter what Carr has around him, he is going to have similar numbers on any given Sunday, something like 20-25 for 190 yards, maybe a TD, with a game thrown in here or there where he throws multiple picks.

By the end of next year, the last thing I want hear are the Carr excuses!

thunderkyss
01-08-2007, 02:28 PM
First of all, I am not one who lines up in the corner of Kubiak being a Qb guru. For much of the things that you outlined. Ultimately a coach must improve the player. What has he improved?

Ok.. we agree on that.


David Carr is one of the best running quarterbacks in the NFL. He can push the edge and run and give defenses fits on the outside. The ONLY way we get him to the outside is on bootlegs and naked bootlegs. We need to run more of those but also roll him out and give him RUN then pass options. (See: Atlanta, Tennessee).

It seemed after a few games, we became too predictable with those roll outs. they were sniffed out, and we ran them less and less. For whatever reason.

But on some of those, I don't know if you remember these plays from early in the season. I think these plays were in the Miami, and the Redskins game.

Twice, we bootlegged Carr out to his right. The first time, he kept running, and ended up throwing the ball away, even though Cook(I know he isn't your favorite subject) was there behind the defender, ready to catch the ball, and turn it up field.

To me.... David is an either or guy. Once he breaks outside of the pocket, whether its on a boot, a designed run, or break down in protection, he needs to have his mind made up what he's going to do, and do it. IMHO, he doesn't think fast enough to run, avoid defenders, and throw strikes. But that's just me. I don't think he looks good doing it...... you might. But my opinion would explain why we didn't do it as often as you would think we'd want to.

When he is given time and a pass route that employs viable threats, Carr can deliver the ball.

It is my contention that he's thrown the ball behind his receiver more times than not. I can't think of anytime he's delivered the ball like it should have been delivered. Maybe it was the lines fault..... maybe we had the wrong personnell on the field. But I haven't seen anything this year to were I could believe this statement about David Carr.

I know he's got the arm to do it. I know he's athletic enough to pull it off, I know there are a lot of guys with the physical tools to get it done in the NFL that aren't in the NFL. Some were also #1 overall QBs.


Look at the quarterbacks in the NFL and the fact is that none of them perform their best with people in their face and not one of them has to deal with BS two tight end, fullback sets on third and long. NONE!


Eli Manning was in that set Quite a bit... Maybe not as often as David, but quite a bit. Speaking of which I've also seen Eli win a game in which he was sacked 9 times. Not the defense making plays for the Giants to win. Not a game winning field goal for the Giants to win, but Eli Manning hooking up with Jeremy Shockey, Plaxico Buress, and who ever else to win the game.

You have the games on dvr, go through the games nad look at our third down sets. Yeah, don't alibi for Carr...blame it all on him...but watch how many times you see two tight ends on the friggin' field on third down. Count how many times you see twins LEFT. NO ONE in this league runs that set more than we do. No one. It is absolute garbage and it is really difficult to judge a quarterback when he is in that kind of an offense.


I'll agree with you there. I think we disagree on why we are in those formations in those situations.

Pop in the Tennessee game and watch our sets BEFORE Carr was injured and then look at the offensive sets AFTER he was injured and let me know if you see anything different. Sit down and watch the offense and see if you see a difference. Don't give me this BS about Sage being a savior and Carr being a bum after watching that objectively. Why the two different offenses? Why open it up with Sage and run this ball control, establish the run to set up the pass deal with Carr?


Was Carr injured?? or is that a new euphamism for benched?? regardless...... I agree there is a difference in the plays/sets/formations we run with our backup QB, that we don't run with our starting QB. Why?? that's the question.
I think he would rip it up in a spread offense and I hope that he finds one. That is the only spot where I think you can evaluate him completely.


That would be great, and I'd love to see it.

Ironic though that the knock on YKW was that he came from a program that ran the spread, and they don't run the spread in the NFL.

To reverse the conversation and questions for all of those who harp on me "defending" Carr, let me pose this:

*Give me the rationale for the Twins Left set being run 65% of the time.


I'd have to imagine he has a propensity to throw to his left.... sounds backwards, I know.... but he seems to like to air it out to that side. I bet if we checked his numbers, it would show just that.

Twins left, to make it easier for him to see his second option while he is fixated with the left side of the field.

just guessing here.

*Give me the rationale and QB guruness in having two tight ends and a fullback on the field on third and 9. Be sure to tell me which teams employ this set on third and long and are successful.

I can't........ makes no sense to me....... but I wonder when we put our backup in the game, he won't be in there with 2 TEs & a fullback on 3rd & long.

Answer me those two questions and you are absolutely right in blaming every single problem on David Carr. But if you can open up to at least a fraction of culpability on idiotic playalling and perhaps other factors coming into play with poor quarterback play, then this enlightenment might lead everyone to a little better perspective on "Ocho Stinko".

I'll stop beating around the bush..... everything I've seen in the last 3 years has me believing the game is moving much too fast for David Carr. I don't think he can keep up, so we have to slow the field down and put as many possesion recievers in the game as possible. AJ, Moulds, Bruenner, Owen, Putz, Walter....... all possession guys.

Now you may be right, and the game is too slow for David. Maybe everybody(Capers, Palmer, Pendry, Kubiak, Calhoon, Sherman) are going the wrong way. Maybe they need to speed things up, and put some speed on the field. I'd buy that argument.

I don't want him to throw anybody under the bus or anything, but I'd like for him to say..... hey coach.... I need faster guys.

Maybe he has, but I can't for the life of me imagine why Kubiak wouldn't get it for him. Kubiak says he want's David to succeed. & getting speedy wideouts was part of the Denver system(Ashley lelie, jevon Walker) but they did use their tightend & fullback quite a bit in the passing game.

Texans_Chick
01-08-2007, 02:30 PM
Kitna signed with Detroit for about $4 milliion per, so he was definitely affordable. Is there any doubt that he is a huge upgrade over Carr... and much cheaper.

Kubiak says a lot of great things about Rosenfels... things that he should be saying about Carr. But he is a career backup. If there was true competition Rosenfels would have won the job during the first Tennessee game and kept it throughout the remainder of the season. Instead, Kubiak went back to Carr.

Yes, there is a doubt.

link (http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/QB-PASSING/2006/regular) and link (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1847)

If I am going to eat Carr's salary cap hit, I want the alternative to be better than a Kitna at the end of his career. The fans would have had a fit if our 2006 QB (with that QB draft class) was going to be doo do dee doooooo.... Jon Kitna.

What Kitna was asked to do for Detroit is different than what Carr was asked to do for the Texans.


(And Wonger, I want to add that you should make football arguments that do not involve saying ugly things about other people on the message board. Attack arguments not people. It helps make this a better community).

thunderkyss
01-08-2007, 02:40 PM
I want to clarify this for everyone... you would take Mike Williams x2 and Kevin Jones over AJ, Moulds and Dayne? For the record here.


I think he is saying

Williams x2= Roy Williams + Mike Williams...... but what do I know??

SamuraiSword
01-08-2007, 02:51 PM
This is probably the best Pro-David Carr post I've ever read on this MB. & that's cool lord knows he needs someone in his corner who knows what they are talking about. Instead of the plain old...... "give him a ProBowl OL, RB, WR, TE & a shut down defense & he can win some games for you" homers. In which, the answer is, "duh, so can I".





in the last two years, what have you seen that he does well??

I'm not being funny. I'm serious. What have you seen that he's done well?? I want to know from an honest objective fan, what does David Carr do well??

this "lets surround him with some talent" is getting old. we've changed every position two times over, we've had two head coaches, three offensive coordinators, one offensive quality control manager, two GMs, & one player/personell consultant say that we can win with the players we've been putting on the field. There's only been one constant, & as far as I can tell, the offenses(three OCs...... four if you count Sherman) have been scaled back & simplified for that one constant.

So sell me on David Carr. Tell us what he's done in the last 3 years that makes you think he can get'r done. Because unlike some, I have no doubt in my mind that David Carr will be our starting QB come Sept '07, and I'd love to have something solid to make me feel good about that.

You say we need to put him in the gun, you say we need to run more spread techniques in our offense?? You say we haven't done so......

I ask you why haven't we?? Why can't our starting QB call audibles?? why did we find out that our HC was against audibles after we saw our backup QB audible in 2 preseason games?? Why is it that we didn't see the shotgun, or a true 5 wide receiver set in the regular season till after our backup QB employed them successfully against Dallas..... and why were such things so rare afterwards?? Why doesn't our starting QB throw out of the shotgun??

Why does our QB Guru(who everyone else defends as a QB Guru) seem to glow when he is talking about our Backup QB.... he's down right giddy, and never at a loss of words when he talks about the things he can do, and what he brings to the team.... But when he talks about our starting QB, he's careful about what he says, on edge, and seems to rather talk about something(anything) else.

excellent post!!

SamuraiSword
01-08-2007, 02:57 PM
David Carr is one of the best running quarterbacks in the NFL. He can push the edge and run and give defenses fits on the outside. The ONLY way we get him to the outside is on bootlegs and naked bootlegs. We need to run more of those but also roll him out and give him RUN then pass options. (See: Atlanta, Tennessee).

uhm David the best running QB??? I think drinking the David Carr kool-aid is getting to you bro? Have you heard of Mike Vick (1000 yard running QB) or Vince Young (500 yard running QB)??? I am not dogging you bro, but just letting you know who is out there. :shades:

NATHANHALE
01-08-2007, 03:02 PM
"Systems are huge and systems need to incorporate the attributes and skill so fhte quarterback into the system. Kubiak did not do that well this year. As I pointed out with his own words, he said that he could and would."

I think we've got it about your schemes and all that, but I'd like to see you answer a few of the questions that have been asked of you by other posters...

El Tejano
01-08-2007, 03:11 PM
uhm David the best running QB??? I think drinking the David Carr kool-aid is getting to you bro? Have you heard of Mike Vick (1000 yard running QB) or Vince Young (500 yard running QB)??? I am not dogging you bro, but just letting you know who is out there. :shades:

Carr ran for 552 yards a year ago and was only second to Michael Vick in rushing for QBs.

SamuraiSword
01-08-2007, 03:16 PM
Carr ran for 552 yards a year ago and was only second to Michael Vick in rushing for QBs.

I was thinking of this season. He hardly ran in 2k6. So people dog VY and MV because they can run and have weak passing. But when it comes to Carr they say he is the best runner in the NFL as a QB? I am not following this equation????:hides:

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 03:24 PM
Yes, there is a doubt.

link (http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/QB-PASSING/2006/regular) and link (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1847)

If I am going to eat Carr's salary cap hit, I want the alternative to be better than a Kitna at the end of his career. The fans would have had a fit if our 2006 QB (with that QB draft class) was going to be doo do dee doooooo.... Jon Kitna.

What Kitna was asked to do for Detroit is different than what Carr was asked to do for the Texans.


(And Wonger, I want to add that you should make football arguments that do not involve saying ugly things about other people on the message board. Attack arguments not people. It helps make this a better community).


Of course Carr's QB rating is higher. It doesn't take into account fumbles and rewards completion percentages way too much without taking into account the type of passes that are being thrown. 5-yard slants and hitch passes make high QB ratings.

Jon Kitna provides an opportunity to win now. Much more so than with David Carr who the coaches have to gameplan around because he is so incompetent.

What "attacks" are you referring to? The only personal comments that I have made were to posters that made personal comments about me first. Go back and read the threads. I never "attack" unless I am "attacked" first. So that would make it a retaliation. I would expect a more objective and balanced view from you Texans Chick. Then again, since we're on opposite sides of the Carr debate I guess this should be expected.

dirty steve
01-08-2007, 03:27 PM
I was thinking of this season. He hardly ran in 2k6. So people dog VY and MV because they can run and have weak passing. But when it comes to Carr they say he is the best runner in the NFL as a QB? I am not following this equation????:hides:
i have actually never heard that argument when it comes to Carr. usually the talk is about Vick.

thunderkyss
01-08-2007, 03:33 PM
Jon Kitna provides an opportunity to win now. Much more so than with David Carr who the coaches have to gameplan around because he is so incompetent.



I don't want to see Kitna here anymore than I want to see David....... but the wonger is correct.

real
01-08-2007, 03:38 PM
Jon Kitna provides an opportunity to win now. Much more so than with David Carr who the coaches have to gameplan around because he is so incompetent.


I don't agree with all your comments, but....


I think Kitna slightly gets the edge right now....

coachdent
01-08-2007, 03:39 PM
I'm confused by this statement...

You have been going on and on about the spread offense and the "productivity" of a QB, but then you end this statement with the bolded text above....

To me it seems as if you have been the one harping on stats...You keep saying his numbers would go up if he was in a spread offense


It doesn't matter what system is "more friendly to QB's"...We don't run the spread offense, so that's pretty much not relevant...If that's the only system that he can be successful in, that further demonstrates why he shouldn't be OUR QB...


BELIEVE ME I know that he cannot be our quarterback. Not in this offense and not with folks who don't want to listen to any kind of reason about anything remotely supporting Carr.

The boldfaced was in response to a guy who was harping on Kitna's stats and saying how great a QB he is. He isn't. His stats look a heck of a lot better because of the offense that he is in. What the gentleman did not want to give into was the fact that our offense HINDERS quarterbacks and prevents them from putting up monster numbers.

He could be successful if we would run some more three wide receiver and four wide receiver sets. It is in our offensive scheme. Look at the Eagles last night. West Coast, yet in the gun and going four wides on several occassions. No we aren't spread, but as a coordinator you do incorporate aspects of your offense into what your team does best. Running go routes with Owen Daniels is not my idea of an explosive offense.

Texans_Chick
01-08-2007, 03:47 PM
What "attacks" are you referring to? The only personal comments that I have made were to posters that made personal comments about me first. Go back and read the threads. I never "attack" unless I am "attacked" first. So that would make it a retaliation. I would expect a more objective and balanced view from you Texans Chick. Then again, since we're on opposite sides of the Carr debate I guess this should be expected.


By the terms of service, nobody should make ugly statements about anyone else. Either initially or retaliatory.

Like a lot of refs, I only noticed the retaliatory stuff. But to be objective and balanced, I am telling everybody to cut it out. :shades:



Oh, and if Kitna gives you the best chance of winning now, what happened in Detroit?

He is just one of the QBs who make me say meh. Prospectively and retrospectively, he is not someone I particular wanted to see in a Texans uni.

Runner
01-08-2007, 03:51 PM
David Carr is one of the best running quarterbacks in the NFL. He can push the edge and run and give defenses fits on the outside. The ONLY way we get him to the outside is on bootlegs and naked bootlegs. We need to run more of those but also roll him out and give him RUN then pass options. (See: Atlanta, Tennessee).

uhm David the best running QB??? I think drinking the David Carr kool-aid is getting to you bro? Have you heard of Mike Vick (1000 yard running QB) or Vince Young (500 yard running QB)??? I am not dogging you bro, but just letting you know who is out there. :shades:

I was thinking of this season. He hardly ran in 2k6. So people dog VY and MV because they can run and have weak passing. But when it comes to Carr they say he is the best runner in the NFL as a QB? I am not following this equation????:hides:

No, "they" said one of the best. Not that hard to follow.

Vinny
01-08-2007, 03:52 PM
I would expect a more objective and balanced view from you Texans Chick. Then again, since we're on opposite sides of the Carr debate I guess this should be expected.get over yourself before I set you out again. I've moved plenty of your crud out of here but you are one of the few redundant argument guys I let stay. You should count your blessings.

dirty steve
01-08-2007, 03:53 PM
By the terms of service, nobody should make ugly statements about anyone else. Either initially or retaliatory.

Like a lot of refs, I only noticed the retaliatory stuff. But to be objective and balanced, I am telling everybody to cut it out. :shades:




Oh, and if Kitna gives you the best chance of winning now, what happened in Detroit?

He is just one of the QBs who make me say meh. Prospectively and retrospectively, he is not someone I particular wanted to see in a Texans uni.
going to make the same point about the lions record WITH kitna this year. nice job. whatever happens, i trust the NEW front office to make the right decision. they have done little to disappoint so far.

coachdent
01-08-2007, 03:57 PM
Dayne had almost as many yards as Jones with about 30 less carries.

I want to clarify this for everyone... you would take Mike Williams x2 and Kevin Jones over AJ, Moulds and Dayne? For the record here.

No I said as a full package on the field with Detroit's receivers and offense along with Kevin Jones.

Kitna fumbles more than Carr??? Again, you're losing it here coach. Kitna had 5 less fumbles than Carr this past season. Kitna had 9, Carr had 7. Kitna also, as you so keenly left out, had 63 sacks this season.

And Kitna had almost as many rushing yards as Carr with a better yard per carry average.
Yeah...right...he's a better runner than Carr. :tease:
You don't know that the SPREAD offense SPREADS people out and makes it easier to run. I understand why this may escape you and why aruging the point with you would be pointless.


Again, Kitna had only 25% more passes with 100% more TD's and 300% more 20+ yard passes.
Again, you do not take into account anything other than the guy and NOTHING else about the offense and the personnel. Moulds is not explosive and AJ was not very explosive this year for all of his catches. Sure, you'll take Dayne and his ability to break off the 20 yarders, but Detroit can get their 20 yard gains from Jones without running out the clock and emptying the concession stands on the first level at the same time.

And Detroit didn't have to gameplan around Kitna because they were worried about him losing the game for them.
And Detroit had an offensive guru who has generated points wherever he has been. You know...greatest show on turf and all that? Remember what happened to Kurt (ArenaLeague) Warner as he left that offense in St. Louis? Kinda normal huh? I'm sure he didn't benefit from being in a more wide open system. I'm sure it is Carr's fault that our coordinator sticks his head in the sand and ignores all of the other problems with our offense and becomes a HoustonTexans.com message board poster and blames eveything on Carr...even when it turns out that he was dead wrong at times. (Exhibit A...the reverse fiasco when he jumped on Carr for not changing the play and people on the site pouncing and saying Carr was stupid and didn't know how to audible, yet it turned out that Carr was right and Kubiak admitted as much later....oh yeah we forget about that one huh?


Can't wait to draft Colt with that first pick! :ok:

real
01-08-2007, 04:00 PM
BELIEVE ME I know that he cannot be our quarterback. Not in this offense and not with folks who don't want to listen to any kind of reason about anything remotely supporting Carr.

The boldfaced was in response to a guy who was harping on Kitna's stats and saying how great a QB he is. He isn't. His stats look a heck of a lot better because of the offense that he is in. What the gentleman did not want to give into was the fact that our offense HINDERS quarterbacks and prevents them from putting up monster numbers.

He could be successful if we would run some more three wide receiver and four wide receiver sets. It is in our offensive scheme. Look at the Eagles last night. West Coast, yet in the gun and going four wides on several occassions. No we aren't spread, but as a coordinator you do incorporate aspects of your offense into what your team does best. Running go routes with Owen Daniels is not my idea of an explosive offense.

ok I gotcha....

But that just brings us back to the big question...

Why is the offense opened up with Sage and not with Carr ?

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 04:01 PM
By the terms of service, nobody should make ugly statements about anyone else. Either initially or retaliatory.

Like a lot of refs, I only noticed the retaliatory stuff. But to be objective and balanced, I am telling everybody to cut it out. :shades:

The next time one of you mods dings someone for making personal comments about me in a thread, a PM or negative rep., it will be the first time. I've been attacked personally dozens of times and 9 times out of 10 I do not respond, but just happened to in this thread. Whatever, it doesn't bother me or I would have left two years ago when I was trying to show everyone how terrible our franchise quarterback is.


Oh, and if Kitna gives you the best chance of winning now, what happened in Detroit?

He is just one of the QBs who make me say meh. Prospectively and retrospectively, he is not someone I particular wanted to see in a Texans uni.

What happened to Detroit??? They couldn't run the ball. Dead last in the NFL. In the few games they did win, Kitna had to shoulder the load and make plays. Can you imagine Dave doing that.... ever?

coachdent
01-08-2007, 04:03 PM
Maybe all the different gameplans and playcalling styles all season long was to see where the current players best "fit in" and to therefore give our coaching staff a way to measure (A) What we have and (B) What we need?

Wouldn't you say that the ground-and-pound running game with Leach at FB has led them to say to themselves, "Well, Vonta Leach is a keeper..."?

And maybe they see that Dayne is useful against certain teams with poor run tackling, so "Maybe we keep Dayne as a bruiser because he and Leach are blowing it up...."?

That whittles things down: Now there's no question about "if" Dayne and Leach are going to be in camp this year. Now, it's about the Lundy/Taylor problem. Which is the better back for us? Or is this a timeshare ala Mike Bell and Tatum Bell? Knowing Kubiak, he'll keep both Lundy AND Taylor as insurance just as the Broncos have with their RBs for the past decade. But at least the coaches know, by virtue of using Dayne/Leach in a few games toward the end of the season, that this is a beneficial combination that we need to hold onto.

I look at the various gameplanning and playcalling all season long, and really it looks so messed up from week-to-week. It actually looked like, IMO, as if Kubiak was using the entire 2006 season just as an evaluation tool to grade the players and make larger and more "dangerous" personnel moves this offseason than he could have made this time last year.

Every new boss/manager has to see what he's inherited before going bonkers on the roster moves. Or at least that's what I think a "smart" new boss/manager does. You might have some hidden nuggets like Leach that needed a little polishing before you knew it was gold sitting right in front of you. Have you noticed Jameel Cook lately? Me neither. He might be depth at this point, but he couldn't produce like Leach could produce. Niow, he might not just fit in to our system...it happens...but nonetheless he is not going to be taking the field anytime soon with Kubiak as coach.

That's what I like about Kubiak: Leach produced, and Leach stays on the field until he doesn't produce. It's what Carr will now face, if we are interpreting Rick Smith's comments correctly: Produce on the field, and you win the job.

At first, I was concerned about our ever-changing gameplans and playcalling. But now I think there's potentially something "there" that's very strategic and calculating: He MIGHT be evaluating the whole team instead of trying to force-feed his team HIS way of doing things like most coaches do when they first arrive. Capers had a way of doing things when we came to Houston, and he stuck with it from the start to the bitter end, no wavering whatsoever. Kubiak just might be rolling out different looks to see which style(s) his team is better at.

It makes sense to do things your way, from the very start, because you think "your way" is the winning way. It's human nature to think "you" have the answers. But maybe there are times when you see a team, as Kubiak saw Houston, and you think to yourself "Let's see how they handle Green Bay's style of run blocking..." Kubiak wasn't egotistical when in the preseason we switched from zone to straight-ahead blocking...he humbled himself and chose to see if Sherman's idea woud work. Just a thought.

If so, then he's a fairly smart cat if you ask me.

Amen!
Hallalujah!
Holy sh%t!

Where's the Tylanol?!

coachdent
01-08-2007, 04:07 PM
He has three 300 yard games, thrown 2 TDs in a game seven times, and thrown 3 TDs in a game three times over something like 76 games or so.

The number speak for themselves. One year of Kubiak proved marginal improvement for Carr's play over the entire season.

I am amazed all the Carr supporters will make excuses why Carr is not as successfull and continue on to make excuses why other QBs are successful.

It seems obvious what the Texans have to do if they want to keep Carr. Get a legit Left Tackle and a stud running back. Otherwise, we are going to get the same stats as above and still in the same mess as last year. Everything has been changed around Carr expect for the offensive line and a very dependable stud running back.

My prediction is that it doesn't matter what Carr has around him, he is going to have similar numbers on any given Sunday, something like 20-25 for 190 yards, maybe a TD, with a game thrown in here or there where he throws multiple picks.

By the end of next year, the last thing I want hear are the Carr excuses!
A legit left tackle. Important in the NFL?
A stud running back? Important in the NFL?
Putting more than two wide receivers on the field important in the NFL?

It'd be neat to see in Houston. It really would. I don't care who our quarterback is if we have those two things, we are going to be a better offense.

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 04:11 PM
get over yourself before I set you out again. I've moved plenty of your crud out of here but you are one of the few redundant argument guys I let stay. You should count your blessings.

I've never been "set out" by you or anyone else Vinny, and have seldom had anything moved, so what are you talking about?

Redundant arguments? I always provide facts and stats to back up my arguments, so I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Not to mention all of the good things that I have done for people like given away tickets, etc. Whatever.

coachdent
01-08-2007, 04:14 PM
uhm David the best running QB??? I think drinking the David Carr kool-aid is getting to you bro? Have you heard of Mike Vick (1000 yard running QB) or Vince Young (500 yard running QB)??? I am not dogging you bro, but just letting you know who is out there. :shades:

ONE of the best.

Vick
Young
Gerrard
Frye
McNabb
Carr

Those were the top rushers. I don't think my comment was ridiculously far off. No?

hollywood_texan
01-08-2007, 04:35 PM
Yes, there is a doubt.

link (http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/QB-PASSING/2006/regular) and link (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1847)

If I am going to eat Carr's salary cap hit, I want the alternative to be better than a Kitna at the end of his career. The fans would have had a fit if our 2006 QB (with that QB draft class) was going to be doo do dee doooooo.... Jon Kitna.

What Kitna was asked to do for Detroit is different than what Carr was asked to do for the Texans.


(And Wonger, I want to add that you should make football arguments that do not involve saying ugly things about other people on the message board. Attack arguments not people. It helps make this a better community).

I understand the cap hit arguement with dumping Carr.

But, it will be a lot more expensive in lost fans and interest in the team if the Texans go about 6-10 again and Carr puts up similar numbers like he always does.

Here are Carr's averages by year:

Year---- Comp----Att---- Yards----TDs---- INTs----
2002---- 15------ 28----- 162----- 0.6---- 0.9----
2003---- 14------ 25----- 168----- 0.8---- 1------
2004---- 18------ 29----- 221----- 1------ 0.9----
2005---- 16------ 26----- 156----- 0.9---- 0.7----
2006---- 19------ 28----- 173----- 0.7---- 0.8----

If the Texans dump Carr, pay more money because of the Carr cap hit, but go 10-6 and fight for a playoff spot. The decision pays for itself.

The Texans are in a very precarious position because they need to become relevant in the NFL.

It seems to me, that have to get to 10-6 next year and fight for a playoff spot to be relevant, if it costs a couple extra million in salary cap or whatever, you do it because this has to get done ASAP!

Waiting till next year or whatever is beyond old.

Keep Carr or getting rid of Carr from a cap hit perspective is what got them in this mess in the first place!

Make the decisions that is best for the team to win now and forget about a million dollars here or there because it won't really matter when they are in the playoff hunt anyway.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
01-08-2007, 05:02 PM
I haven't heard anyone question Kubiak for his ultra conservative, non- imaginative approach. Have they on 610? Have they in the papers? It seems to me that it has been dogpile on Carr.

The previous regime had an offense far more ridiculous than this one. It was horrible.

We spent our draft picks on defense and brought in an aging, possession wide receiver with no wheels. We brought in a nice tight end who can catch the ball. We brought in a wide receiver who never saw the field in Kevin Walter. We had an offensive line that once again was hampered by injuries and a lack of cohesiveness. But once again....:sarcasm: it is all about Carr.

I do not know which games you were watching, but he was defeintely on the field and making contributions when called upon. On the field as much as many wanted him to be, not even close.

Hulk75
01-08-2007, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by coachdent
I haven't heard anyone question Kubiak for his ultra conservative, non- imaginative approach. Have they on 610? Have they in the papers? It seems to me that it has been dogpile on Carr.

The previous regime had an offense far more ridiculous than this one. It was horrible.

We spent our draft picks on defense and brought in an aging, possession wide receiver with no wheels. We brought in a nice tight end who can catch the ball. We brought in a wide receiver who never saw the field in Kevin Walter. We had an offensive line that once again was hampered by injuries and a lack of cohesiveness. But once again.... it is all about Carr.

I am with you brother, but whatever it will play its self out, dont worry, people want change NOW NOW NOW!
Dont worry about it let them argue with themselves, if he sucks they will get rid of him and not take on his Dollars, but what would it mean if he stays and starts, hmmmmmm, whatever we will see.

ledzeppelin229
01-08-2007, 05:15 PM
Surprisingly with both coaching staffs the offense has steadily transformed into the same conservative suckfest. I thought it was a Capers/Pendry problem but with Kubiak regressing to the same thing, I am suspecting that Mr. David Carr is the common denominator for both. If there isn't a pretty significant turnaround next season then suspicions will be confirmed and hopefully there won't be any excuses for the fans (myself included) to fall back on to bail DC out.

dirty steve
01-08-2007, 05:41 PM
ok I gotcha....

But that just brings us back to the big question...

Why is the offense opened up with Sage and not with Carr ?
that argument just doesnt hold a lot of weight with me. while i am not trying to say Sage couldnt competently run the offense, Tenn. didnt exactly have their ears pinned back when Sage was in the game. I think we should learn a lesson about annointing somebody based on preseason/one half of regular season play against a not very good defense. everybody thought Romo was Staubach 2006 for what he did in 10 or so games.

the wonger need food
01-08-2007, 05:43 PM
I am with you brother, but whatever it will play its self out, dont worry, people want change NOW NOW NOW


No, we wanted change after he played so horribly in the second half of 2004. The last 2 seasons have just been icing on the cake. He has been given way too many chances to produce and failed miserably.

thunderkyss
01-08-2007, 06:06 PM
(Exhibit A...the reverse fiasco when he jumped on Carr for not changing the play and people on the site pouncing and saying Carr was stupid and didn't know how to audible, yet it turned out that Carr was right and Kubiak admitted as much later....oh yeah we forget about that one huh?


Can't wait to draft Colt with that first pick! :ok:

I know what Kubiak said, but I think he was protecting his QB on that one. IT wasn't an audible, but David motioned the TE from the playside(left) end to the right. everything looked like we were going to run right. Where we had been successful.

The TE was lined up on the LOS, as a receiver. covered by a linebacker. When we motioned the TE to the right side, the LB stayed on the line, didn't move. Instead, the safety moved with him.

There was a free blitzer on the play side. David should have called a time out. He got his butt chewed out because (IMHO) he showed a complete lack of understanding about the game. He had no clue what motioning the TE to the backside was supposed to do. The play was doomed to fail, and it did. Miserably.

hollywood_texan
01-08-2007, 06:25 PM
... but whatever it will play its self out, dont worry, people want change NOW NOW NOW!...

People don't care about CHANGE as much as they care about WINNING!!!

It's obvious the Texans don't win enough footballs games over the past 5 years, hence their need for the change.

Another year of excuses is a little much too ask of the fan base at this time.

thunderkyss
01-08-2007, 06:34 PM
I am with you brother, but whatever it will play its self out, dont worry, people want change NOW NOW NOW!

you were saying this 5 years ago......... at what point can we say...... ok that's been long enough.

coachdent
01-08-2007, 07:33 PM
I do not know which games you were watching, but he was definitely on the field and making contributions when called upon. On the field as much as many wanted him to be, not even close.

I LIKE Kevin Walter and wished he was on the field MORE! You missed my point! I'd rather Walter on the field than two tight ends. I'd rather this set on third and long:

AJ
Moulds
Walter
Daniels / Putzier / Anderson
(heck Anderson looked real nice on the one catch out of quads!)

Walter had a nice little first down run on a fourth and short early in the season. Faked a run inside and gave him a quick pitch and he picked up the first using his speed. Great stuff...wish we saw more of him.

NATHANHALE
01-09-2007, 05:48 AM
"New England players may come and go, but as long as Tom Brady is playing quarterback, the Patriots are capable of beating any team, including the Chargers at Qualcomm Stadium, where San Diego was undefeated this season"

...just a different thought. Will we ever say this about Carr? I really like those first 7 words...not the 'gel' thinking of many on this board! Too, the Pats don't have a 'set in glue' system-instead, they are very effective 'game planners' that live by the 'monikor,'.....whatever it takes.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4456470.html

thunderkyss
01-09-2007, 08:25 AM
let me put it this way.

If Carr does win, then we need to go back to square one. Fire the headcoach again. Fire the GM... none of this wait till after the next draft & let him resign crap. Fire anybody in any office that looks like a scout. & run McNair out of Houston, and beg Bud Adams to come back.

If they want Carr to start. That's fine, I don't care. Just like this year, they can say he's the QB. they can say they want to give David every opportunity to succeed. They can say the will do what ever it takes to make David Carr successfull.

But if they tell us that they couldn't find us a better QB, someone that gives us a chance to win..... then it's time to protest. time to riot. Time to start looting downtown houston.


rep recieved for above post
rioting and looting Houston over the football teams coices team choices?? How about being constructive instead of destructive

It's called Humor...... levity...

lighten up.

Wish I knew who you were..... I wonder if the problem you had with my post was actually the rioting & looting part, or that I don't believe David Carr could beat Emanuel Lewis in a fair QB competition.

If you think otherwise, I'd love to hear your take on what David Carr does well, based on what you've seen this year.

I thought I'd get negative rep for the Bud Adams coment.

Texan_Bill
01-09-2007, 08:33 AM
It's called Humor...... levity...

lighten up.

Wish I knew who you were..... I wonder if the problem you had with my post was actually the rioting & looting part, or that I don't believe David Carr could beat Emanuel Lewis in a fair QB competition.

If you think otherwise, I'd love to hear your take on what David Carr does well, based on what you've seen this year.

I thought I'd get negative rep for the Bud Adams coment.

WOW.... I know that I have disagreed with you in the past TK. I know things can get heated at times, but I clearly could see that your intent was not literal and as you said, you were putting some levity on the situation.... Geeeez people, let's not be so quick on the "rep button".

HOU-TEX
01-09-2007, 08:43 AM
I LIKE Kevin Walter and wished he was on the field MORE! You missed my point! I'd rather Walter on the field than two tight ends. I'd rather this set on third and long:

AJ
Moulds
Walter
Daniels / Putzier / Anderson
(heck Anderson looked real nice on the one catch out of quads!)
.

What's the point of having them on the field more if our QB rarely makes it through his progressions? Whether it be from protection or just incompetance of the QB. We all know we have some protection problems at times, but even when he has the time he rushes through his progressions if at all.:twocents:

U4ikrob
01-09-2007, 08:45 AM
I haven't heard anyone question Kubiak for his ultra conservative, non- imaginative approach. Have they on 610? Have they in the papers? It seems to me that it has been dogpile on Carr.

The previous regime had an offense far more ridiculous than this one. It was horrible.

We spent our draft picks on defense and brought in an aging, possession wide receiver with no wheels. We brought in a nice tight end who can catch the ball. We brought in a wide receiver who never saw the field in Kevin Walter. We had an offensive line that once again was hampered by injuries and a lack of cohesiveness. But once again....:sarcasm: it is all about Carr.

Exactly what I was going to say - 5 years of watching this team and what ive seen is 5 years of inconcsistent play for the most part all over the team. That speaks volumes about one thing to me - A Lack of quality depth. Sicne we are a new team that was an understood thing for me, but so many people here expect so much from an infantile franchise it boggles my mind. Seriously its real hard to win games in this league with street scrubs as your starters at over 50% of your line positions. Injuries really scocked it to us this year and exposed our lack of depth all around and cost us more than one game this year.

Yes Carr is a 5 year vet - A vet with 4 Oc's - never a decent O-line in that time, an inconsistent at best running game and only 1 wr threat whom is doubled almost every play since his first year and yet its always DC is the problem because the offense starts and ends with the QB. I'll grant you the guy makes some mistakes - Every QB in the league does, but people need to be realistic too. I think he should compete for his job next year and the staff plans to do their part to make that happen, but dont be surprised if another guy starts and the same results happen folks.

Does Carr deserve some of the blame - Sure - He's made mistakes and hasnt always come ready to play. Sometimes I felt that was a motivation deal, sometiems lack of focus - other times a lack of faith in those around him playing.

But my question is has Carr had a fair chance to succeed in the time he's been with the team? - My answer is no.

This year is a good example - Most of this year at any given time the team got in a rhythm - something went wrong. Penalties, injuries, mistakes on both sides of the ball. Bottom line as Kubiak put it - they were inconsistent.

IMO football is a game of consistency & depth. If you can limit your mistakes you give yourself an opportunity to win and if you have depth you can outlast your opponent when things go wrong [injuries] or players tire. 9 out of 10 times you win games by forcing your opponent to beat themselves, not because you beat them straight up in a talent contest, but because you didnt make as many mistakes as the other team did and you outlast them in the mental mistakes. New England is great example of this and a mutliple super bowl winner in the league not because of flash, or better talent [see Jabar Gaffney], but because they are consistent on both sides of the ball, strive for depth at all positions and limit their mistakes overall in a game to allow them to sit back and let other teams implode. They make you beat yourself by controlling what they can do - by being consistent and mistake free.

Time and time again Kubiak preached this concept all year long. This Team by and large has a hard time competing because of mistakes all over the field - We arent consistent at hardly any position on the field not just at the QB position. We certainly didnt lose some games this year this year simply because of our QB's poor play. Lack of a running game, defensevie errors, injuries, lack of mental focus etc.. We were not consistent all around and our team is to blame for that - not just the guy hiking the ball.

Taking just this year as an example - The first half of the year David CArr was Rated #1-#2 in pass efficiency and QB rating - yet here at the end of the year people on this board are saying he's the worst ever and regressed to a has-been. Something is wrong with that in a lot of ways, because the problem is consistency. David wasnt consistent. Neither was the o-line, the running game, the Wr play, the Te game - 4 centers later and people think DC is the only problem.

It's going to be really sad next year if DC is gone and another QB comes in and does just as poorly because he doesnt have time to throw the ball, his recievers are dropping balls and not running full routes, the running game cant get going, our secondary is allowing back to back 80+yard plays and our special teams cant make a chip shot field goal or field a punt.

I can see it now people will be calling for whomever the QB is to be cut or benched.

This team lacks depth and being consistent plain and simple. Until we can get to a point we can play mistake free ball and have better depth across the board I forsee us still struggling.

My pick is 7-9 next year or 8-8 at best

Mr. White
01-09-2007, 08:55 AM
It's called Humor...... levity...

lighten up.

Wish I knew who you were..... I wonder if the problem you had with my post was actually the rioting & looting part, or that I don't believe David Carr could beat Emanuel Lewis in a fair QB competition.

If you think otherwise, I'd love to hear your take on what David Carr does well, based on what you've seen this year.

I thought I'd get negative rep for the Bud Adams coment.

Therein lies the problem. A lot of these troglodytes are way too dense to understand sarcasm. And too immature to call out posts that they don't agree with in the actual forum. And definitely too cowardly to put their name on it.

This is how board wars get started.

real
01-09-2007, 09:03 AM
Therein lies the problem. A lot of these troglodytes are way too dense to understand sarcasm. And too immature to call out posts that they don't agree with in the actual forum. And definitely too cowardly to put their name on it.

This is how board wars get started.

Tell me about it....

I got a negative rep for my Sig....

A sig that I've been forced to sport becuase of a bet....

Texan_Bill
01-09-2007, 09:41 AM
Tell me about it....

I got a negative rep for my Sig....

A sig that I've been forced to sport becuase of a bet....

Samething with you Royalty... We have disagreed about plenty on this board, but to get negative reps for that stuff is flat out weak! Did they even leave their name??

Anyway, back to topic. The one glaring weakness (and this may be the result of being an expansion team) is our depth. That excuse works for a season or two - maybe three, but not wrapping up our 5th season, heading into our 6th. I though we made some strides last year, but we have a long way to go.

SamuraiSword
01-09-2007, 10:21 AM
No, "they" said one of the best. Not that hard to follow.

hey when you are comming off from a third shift and are half a sleep. You have a tendency to make mistakes from time to time. :shades:

coachdent
01-09-2007, 11:14 AM
What's the point of having them on the field more if our QB rarely makes it through his progressions? Whether it be from protection or just incompetance of the QB. We all know we have some protection problems at times, but even when he has the time he rushes through his progressions if at all.:twocents:


The point of having them on the field is opening up passing lanes and simplifying reads. When you have tight ends lumbering down the field, the throws become tighter as do the zones in which the defense must cover.

Thunderkyss showed a play on another thread in which Carr threw late to AJ. A bad throw no doubt. But the two underneath routes are by tight ends coming across the middle on crossing routes. Those routes take a long time to develop when being run by tight ends. If even one of those routes was run by Walters, then the hole would be wider and the read easier. In addtion, throwing the ball to a crosser WR will ultimately yield to more YAC then the three feet that Bruener would be able to turn and pick up.

If you look into early seaosn threads, one of the complaints against Carr was checking down and throwing underneath. Well, when you check down to a tight end or fullback, you aren't getting much more. The Eagles check down to Brian Westbrook...just a tad bit different. Makes those 3 yard checkdowns a little more effective and the quarterback a little bit better.

real
01-09-2007, 11:18 AM
The point of having them on the field is opening up passing lanes and simplifying reads. When you have tight ends lumbering down the field, the throws become tighter as do the zones in which the defense must cover.

Thunderkyss showed a play on another thread in which Carr threw late to AJ. A bad throw no doubt. But the two underneath routes are by tight ends coming across the middle on crossing routes. Those routes take a long time to develop when being run by tight ends. If even one of those routes was run by Walters, then the hole would be wider and the read easier. In addtion, throwing the ball to a crosser WR will ultimately yield to more YAC then the three feet that Bruener would be able to turn and pick up.

If you look into early seaosn threads, one of the complaints against Carr was checking down and throwing underneath. Well, when you check down to a tight end or fullback, you aren't getting much more. The Eagles check down to Brian Westbrook...just a tad bit different. Makes those 3 yard checkdowns a little more effective and the quarterback a little bit better.

I don't neccessarily agree with you....


But I think you have the best pro-carr arguments.....

hollywood_texan
01-09-2007, 11:21 AM
Exactly what I was going to say - 5 years of watching this team and what ive seen is 5 years of inconcsistent play for the most part all over the team. That speaks volumes about one thing to me - A Lack of quality depth. Sicne we are a new team that was an understood thing for me, but so many people here expect so much from an infantile franchise it boggles my mind. Seriously its real hard to win games in this league with street scrubs as your starters at over 50% of your line positions. Injuries really scocked it to us this year and exposed our lack of depth all around and cost us more than one game this year.

Yes Carr is a 5 year vet - A vet with 4 Oc's - never a decent O-line in that time, an inconsistent at best running game and only 1 wr threat whom is doubled almost every play since his first year and yet its always DC is the problem because the offense starts and ends with the QB. I'll grant you the guy makes some mistakes - Every QB in the league does, but people need to be realistic too. I think he should compete for his job next year and the staff plans to do their part to make that happen, but dont be surprised if another guy starts and the same results happen folks.

Does Carr deserve some of the blame - Sure - He's made mistakes and hasnt always come ready to play. Sometimes I felt that was a motivation deal, sometiems lack of focus - other times a lack of faith in those around him playing.

But my question is has Carr had a fair chance to succeed in the time he's been with the team? - My answer is no.

This year is a good example - Most of this year at any given time the team got in a rhythm - something went wrong. Penalties, injuries, mistakes on both sides of the ball. Bottom line as Kubiak put it - they were inconsistent.

IMO football is a game of consistency & depth. If you can limit your mistakes you give yourself an opportunity to win and if you have depth you can outlast your opponent when things go wrong [injuries] or players tire. 9 out of 10 times you win games by forcing your opponent to beat themselves, not because you beat them straight up in a talent contest, but because you didnt make as many mistakes as the other team did and you outlast them in the mental mistakes. New England is great example of this and a mutliple super bowl winner in the league not because of flash, or better talent [see Jabar Gaffney], but because they are consistent on both sides of the ball, strive for depth at all positions and limit their mistakes overall in a game to allow them to sit back and let other teams implode. They make you beat yourself by controlling what they can do - by being consistent and mistake free.

Time and time again Kubiak preached this concept all year long. This Team by and large has a hard time competing because of mistakes all over the field - We arent consistent at hardly any position on the field not just at the QB position. We certainly didnt lose some games this year this year simply because of our QB's poor play. Lack of a running game, defensevie errors, injuries, lack of mental focus etc.. We were not consistent all around and our team is to blame for that - not just the guy hiking the ball.

Taking just this year as an example - The first half of the year David CArr was Rated #1-#2 in pass efficiency and QB rating - yet here at the end of the year people on this board are saying he's the worst ever and regressed to a has-been. Something is wrong with that in a lot of ways, because the problem is consistency. David wasnt consistent. Neither was the o-line, the running game, the Wr play, the Te game - 4 centers later and people think DC is the only problem.

It's going to be really sad next year if DC is gone and another QB comes in and does just as poorly because he doesnt have time to throw the ball, his recievers are dropping balls and not running full routes, the running game cant get going, our secondary is allowing back to back 80+yard plays and our special teams cant make a chip shot field goal or field a punt.

I can see it now people will be calling for whomever the QB is to be cut or benched.

This team lacks depth and being consistent plain and simple. Until we can get to a point we can play mistake free ball and have better depth across the board I forsee us still struggling.

My pick is 7-9 next year or 8-8 at best

I think everyone can agree that 5 years is enough of an opportunity for any player in the NFL, regardless of situation. The game is too fast to expect 5 years or more of an opportunity to prove yourself.

I agree with your position that Carr has not been helped out with personnel decisions, but he isn't the only quarterback to have these problems or similiar issues. It's called adversity, and the players that overcome are the ones that are successful.

Two questions for you considering where the Texans are at:

1. How much longer should Carr get? Maybe through next year? Maybe through two more years to complete his contract?

2. What are the precise personnel pieces and offensive system David Carr needs to be successful and show validity to the amount of money he has been?

There is one guy in this thread that says that Carr is basically in the wrong system, basically Carr should be running the spread offense like at Tennessee, which would make him a better QB than VY. If Carr should be running the spread offense, then Kubiak was a terrible decision as a head coach because he doesn't run that type of offense.

Others on this board say Carr needs upgrades at the WR position. I think that is ridiculous because WR is the strongest position the Texans have right now. Furthermore, if you can't evaluate Carr, then how can evaluate the WR position? The WR position is totally dependent on the QB play.

The there is the offensive line issue. A Left Tackle should be a priority in my opinion if you keep Carr and with some other improvements along the line.

Then there is the running game issue. The Texans needs a big time running back.

My point in going through Carr's marginal play is the result of:

1. Poor coaching/play calling/offensive system
2. WR play
3. Offensive line play
4. Running back talent

As you can see, everything with the offense is wrong, deficient, or whatever, except for Carr.

IMO, if you keep Carr, you have to put a top tier Left Tackle on the squad, round out the offensive line with better talent and depth, add a stud running back, and tell Carr you have about 8 - 12 games to start the 2007 season to prove yourself or your gone. The offensive line and running back positions are the only ones that haven't been dramatically changed. Meanwhile, we have changed coaches and improved the WR position with marginal improvement.

What's interesting is, that the Texans consistently have averaged about 16 points a game since 2002 (2004 saw a slight increase), and the best years and games are when the Texans defense has played well.

thunderkyss
01-09-2007, 11:26 AM
Thunderkyss showed a play on another thread in which Carr threw late to AJ. A bad throw no doubt. But the two underneath routes are by tight ends coming across the middle on crossing routes. Those routes take a long time to develop when being run by tight ends. If even one of those routes was run by Walters, then the hole would be wider and the read easier. In addtion, throwing the ball to a crosser WR will ultimately yield to more YAC then the three feet that Bruener would be able to turn and pick up.

the guy crossing to David's right was Walter..

If you look into early seaosn threads, one of the complaints against Carr was checking down and throwing underneath. Well, when you check down to a tight end or fullback, you aren't getting much more. The Eagles check down to Brian Westbrook...just a tad bit different. Makes those 3 yard checkdowns a little more effective and the quarterback a little bit better.

You keep saying this. I rewatched (on NFL RePlay-I love NFL network) the Philly/Saints game, and they were in a lot of two TE, two back sets. LJ Smith & Matt(??) Schoebel were running those routes you're talking about) same as us, twins left & everything.

real
01-09-2007, 11:33 AM
I can't help but chuckle to myself, thinking about the possiblility of going into year six, and still not knowing whether or not our QB can get it done....4 years was cute....5 years was funny.....6 years will be down right embarrasing....

At this point all of the outside reasons that David couldn't get it done (OL, Bad playcalling, coaching, expansion team, no running game, bad defense, bad fans, sad fans, the moon, and the stars) really don't matter at this point...It's been too long, and it's about time that we see if someone else can lead this team in a more positive direction...more positive=winning

thunderkyss
01-09-2007, 11:41 AM
We were not consistent all around and our team is to blame for that - not just the guy hiking the ball.

this will be our 6th draft rob..... what do you suggest we do?? Before you answer, let me ask you a few Querstions.......

1.How many Left Tackles have we had on this team.... that actually played.
2. How many Left Guards have we had on this team..
3. How many Centers have we gone through??
4. How many times have we changed the RG position because of poor play??
5. How many RTs have we employed as starters??
6. How many WRs has this team had.
7. How many TEs??
8. How many Starting running backs have we gone through??
9. How many starting full backs have we been through??
10. How many DEs have we employed in the 4-3?? How many in the 3-4??
11. How many DTs/NTs have we utilized??
12. How many different LBs have come & gone??
13. How many DBs

I don't know why you would think the QB is the only position being questioned or blamed, when we have only had one Starting QB from the get go.... & though he's played poorly for quite some time, he's only been benched for 2 Qtrs of play.

My pick is 7-9 next year or 8-8 at best

& if I thought that way, I'd be happy with our QB play so far as well.

texan_fan_8
01-09-2007, 12:13 PM
They have'nt said he's gone but Smith and Kubiak sure have'nt endorsed him either . In fact thats the harshest statements I've heard about Carr outside this board in five years .


Let me paraphrase. We don't think the guy did good. The boss won't let him go unless someone better can be found. So we will find someone that will beat him in a competition and then carr will be released.

tsip
01-09-2007, 03:27 PM
"it's about time that we see if someone else can lead this team in a more positive direction...more positive=winning"

...watch out, I got 'buried' for mentioning this....

U4ikrob
01-09-2007, 03:37 PM
For Hollywood and TK -

I'm at work so may have to run. Let me first preface my statement by saying to those who take the time to read I'm certainly not trying to seem like a DC apologist - and i dont post during the season much as I prefer to wait till the season is done. Ive been here since the board started with Vinny and several others and watched the lame excuse of a team the coaching staff kept putting on the field but in the end I still call myself a fan of the Texans.

On DC IMO think the guy needed a swift kick in the butt more than once over the last 5 years and i'm not trying to give excuses - just pointing out what I saw as I have the last 5 years watching from the sidelines and at TC. I stated above he needed competition too and that the team is bringing it in. IMO think he's in the right system now going back to his Fresno days he was a good passing QB, but has lost confidence after 4 years of ball control OC's.

on this year If you went back to pre-season the team looked like it was ready to turn a corner, but the lack of a real running game hampered anything we were doing and that lack of running threat was exposed against more of the top tier teams like Philly, Indy and others as we started the year. Its real hard to pass the ball when you dont have a running game - Just ask Troy smith and OSU. By the time we hit Dallas - the injury bug was rolling around again and the year going off rough. But DC and the team stuck with it until the playcalling reverted to ball control and the results for the offense went down with it.

This year I didnt really see much different, but my gut feeling was that now the team would have a chance to succeed with a staff that understood how much we needed to change and get better across the board and that the lack of a veteran presence in the huddle and locker room was very evident o nthe team and when a team gets down on itself its hard to pick up and keep rolling when your looking around and nobody has somethign to say. Thats were we needed that veteran presence to help show the way.

IMO We have been playing with a whole lot of street scrubs over the last 5 years in general. If you look at how many of Dom capers players were cut when Kubiak got here and who didnt get picked up by other teams that should spell things out more clearly- it wasnt because we had Tier 1 talent across the board and IMO Kubiak knew we needed an overhaul to try and get some of the below average players we had all over the team out of starting positions and to try and get soem at least average NFL talent and depth in place and hopefully some veterans to show the way to win. Creating a winning environment is always hard on a team that has no history of it though and you have to start somewhere.

To your point TK on the record - i'm not advocating mediocrity for the team - [7-9 or 8-8] I want us to be a winner for sure, but I am also a realist and have played football enough to know depth and consistency make life in the game work better and I just dont see us able to compete much better than that just yet. I am hoepful though we can turn thigns around wit ha better mix of rookies, draft and veterans. IMO Dom and Cahrlie botched alot of drafts and i'm still irked about the whole Babin, P-burnt and trading picks idea. o me that along with the Bosseli deal took this team backwards i na lot of ways and made it harder than it had to be.

Going back a little bit to 03 - IMHO thought that team was starting to head in the right directions. We were 7-9 at the end of the year, but Dom had to go and switch the blocking scheme in the middle of the season. Honestly what other team does this kind of stuff? Then in the off-season Charlie and Dom go and get rid of most of the veterans on defense - trade our valuable Draft picks for P-burnt and you know the rest. That right there I thought was a turning point for the team and its QB who I felt lost faith in the system and staff along with most of the players who laid an egg in 04. I predicted the team would implode after watching them in camp that year and we all know what happened the next year - 2-14.

As for this years group - I said before the year started that this would be another transitional year for the team, but if they could get some veteran players in the huddles it would make a big difference in the team chemistry. Somebody who could step up when the chips were down and make a play, turn a corner, call a guy out and make things happen. Unfortuantely once again - we lost alot of those veteran guys aong the way this year due to the injury bug and we really didnt show much mettle until we were on our 4th center this year [Mckinney] which put us back where we staretd before the year began. The depth thing killing us all around.

As for how many players at X positions that actually played on the team - hmm would have to check records, but if memory serves the revolving door we had was

Ill just try LT - [have to get back to work - break is over]
I'm including everyone I can think of off the top of my head that played at the position.

Chester Pitts
Seth Wand
Ryan Young
Milford Brown
Victor Riley
Ephraim Sallaam
Charles Spencer
Jimmy Herndon
Greg Randall
MArcus Spears

thunderkyss
01-09-2007, 03:50 PM
For Hollywood and TK -


Ill just try LT - [have to get back to work - break is over]
I'm including everyone I can think of off the top of my head that played at the position.

My point was that the QB position isn't the only position being blamed. Every other position on this team has been dealt with, some on more than one occassion, some more than twice. But we still have the same problem.

The QB needs to play better. Period.

Our Oline sucked.... well we've addressed it several times. Our running back sucks... we'll we've made changes. Our recievers sucked........ again, we made changes. Our defense sucked.... made changes... our coaches sucked.... made changes.... our GM sucked... changed.... our fans suck... bunch of them left.... hmmmmmmm what else can we change??

hollywood_texan
01-09-2007, 05:26 PM
U4ikrob-

Over the past 5 years everything on the offensive side of the ball has been blamed for Carr's marginal play, lack of improvement, or however you want to characterize it.

My point is, if your are going to keep Carr, pinpoint the biggest issues, address those issues as best as possible without sacrificing the entire team, and get on with it. If he fails, he fails, but this continual run on of excuses has got to end at some point.

It seems to me, with all the history of what has been changed on the offense and the most pressing issues, you get Carr a better line, particuraly at Left Tackle, regardless of Spencer's return (I say this because the team cannot wait any longer or have any question marks!), improve the overall line and depth, add a stud running back, and then say to Carr, this is it, make it happen or your gone. There are no more excuses, Carr has had plenty of chances to prove is worth, life isn't fair, one more year help Carr out take his best shot and let the chips fall where they may.

IMO, Carr has already burned all of his chances, but it seems very clear that McNair wants to make another run with Carr and McNair is going to set the parameters up for change with Kubiak on the QB position so that Kubiak can't make the change with Carr until after next season, if that.

See your overall point, but at some point you have to just walk away. Things happen like this in life and you just got to make the decision.

U4ikrob
01-09-2007, 06:00 PM
good points both TK and Hollywood - Will be giving rep to both you.

Certainly have to address the QB alogn with others as our GM said in his interview and I agrree with.

Bottom line for me is no more free ride for Carr - as I said I think he's needed a swift kick in the butt more than once over the years and I certainly dont want to hear anymore excuses as to why our QB cant get it done.

For me -I cant help but wonder what will happen next year to whomever wins the job. If it takes us getting the "Snake" here to win ball games and take us to the next level so be it, but either way I still feel whoever it is is going to experience some similar struggles if we dont resolve the depth problems we have overall.

Peace guys:shades:

Arky
01-10-2007, 12:40 AM
coachdent: Good posts. Are you the Pennsylvania coach that called into Coach Kubiak's talk show on 610 radio here in Houston after (I think) the Raiders game? The one Coach Kubiak gave an "attaboy" for noticing Vonta Leach's good play?

threetoedpete
01-10-2007, 05:30 AM
Rep your way U4 very nice post. Tallent makes a difference. Not no diffenrence at all.

U4ikrob
01-10-2007, 07:19 AM
I think everyone can agree that 5 years is enough of an opportunity for any player in the NFL, regardless of situation. The game is too fast to expect 5 years or more of an opportunity to prove yourself.

I agree with your position that Carr has not been helped out with personnel decisions, but he isn't the only quarterback to have these problems or similiar issues. It's called adversity, and the players that overcome are the ones that are successful.



Certainly agree with this point Hollywood - It's like I tell my son all the time when playing soccer and other kids are doing things they shouldnt
- Life isnt fair - nobody said it would be - sometimes you just have to buck up, be a man and do better and you will beat them at their own game.


Two questions for you considering where the Texans are at:

1. How much longer should Carr get? Maybe through next year? Maybe through two more years to complete his contract?

2. What are the precise personnel pieces and offensive system David Carr needs to be successful and show validity to the amount of money he has been?



As I said above I think Carr should have to compete for a job. His contract while a problem fiscally for the team was not something Kubiak had much to do with. Fiscally speaking his contract is a bit large, but can be smaller if we wait till after June to release it. Bottom line is Carr was signed to that extension before Kubiak became the coach. Only his opinion was asked before he got here and you can read that above. My point is DC hasnt gotten a fair shake overall, but if he cant step up his own play and do better at what he can control [better reads, more film time and game prep, more crisp execution of plays, smarter decisions with the ball, focusing on execution and commanding the huddle] then he doesnt deserve to play the position. He needs to compete for a job this year and if he doesnt win the starting job, he needs to be asked to renegotiate his contract or be released/traded. IF he's really a 'Team first guy' it shouldnt be that big of a problem as he's been paid very well for his first contract and if he cant win the job he needs to accept it do better so he can get a better contract liek everyone else in the league does. DC is not always hungry to play and it has shown at times to the point he's dragged his team down a few games. I'm willing to grant him some leeway because of talent & injuries or just plain having a bad game. Everyone in the league has those things to work with. But I wont excuse him for lack of focus and execution on his part. Thats something he can control. I noticed more than once he plays alot better when he's fired up. He tries harder to control his game, not when he's running out to just run a set of plays. Thats a lack of focus IMO and something he can correct if he has a true desire to do so.

On Personnel - I agree with your choices - LT & RB

1st - Tackles - That Spencer injury still really hurts. While he was not the most premier LT - he was very good and was giving time and space to work with in passing downs which is the biggest problem with the line. Our run blocking is decent, but pass protection is just horrific. Spencer was doing the job needed. IMO we need another LT now though as I wouldnt count on Spencer being the same when/if he comes back. We cant afford to wait and see either now and the draft isnt going to provide much in LT talent this year. Solid LT's are hard to come by, but we need at least an above average guy in the position to compete. IF Spencer does come back it will give us some of the much needed depth at the position. Salaam was a great bandaid this year in a swing tackle, but we need solid starters at both bookends to hold the pocket and Weigert is a decent answer on the right when healthy, IMO. Our lack of depth on the line and all the injuries hurt us last year, but our rookies got good experience. I think Winston can be a good answer at RT, but we need depth all around.

2nd - RB - Not having DD in the backfield last year killed alot of the play action passing that Kubiak's offense relies upon. Defenses were able to rush 4 and stop our running game and that cant happen if were going to compete. DD was a killer out of the backfield and was a good enough runner to break a long one from scrimmage and keep the defense honest. We need another guy like that or better. Right now I dont see anyone on the roster that can do both of those as well and like Spencer above we cant wait and count on Dominick to be back like before. Taylor may be an answer, but IMO he hasnt shown it yet. Kubiaks offense needs a good running game to make the short passing game work. They work in tandem and when one side isnt able to at least be average in production the other side becomes predictable and causes problems all around the offense.

IMO were fine at WR and TE for now.

TXGRL
01-10-2007, 08:05 AM
Wow...so competition for Carr. Like the sound of that.

El Tejano
01-10-2007, 11:04 AM
I agree with U4ikROB. I just don't think a guy like Joe Thomas will be there at #8 so you could still get good quality in 2nd round for OL.

If we don't trade down from #8 you got to know we are going for a skilled position playmaker.

coachdent
01-10-2007, 11:24 AM
the guy crossing to David's right was Walter..


You keep saying this. I rewatched (on NFL RePlay-I love NFL network) the Philly/Saints game, and they were in a lot of two TE, two back sets. LJ Smith & Matt(??) Schoebel were running those routes you're talking about) same as us, twins left & everything.

You also keep mentioning the Philadelphia Eagles... They have one of the best offensive lines in the league. LJ Smith is a hybrid tight end who splits out at wideout.

You're right though. Our offense is one of the most diverse in the NFL. Incredible use of motion. Excellent packaging of plays for our best receivers. You're right. I apologize. Everyone is in two tights and fullback / tailback on third and long. Proof positive.

tsip
01-10-2007, 11:37 AM
You also keep mentioning the Philadelphia Eagles... They have one of the best offensive lines in the league. LJ Smith is a hybrid tight end who splits out at wideout.

You're right though. Our offense is one of the most diverse in the NFL. Incredible use of motion. Excellent packaging of plays for our best receivers. You're right. I apologize. Everyone is in two tights and fullback / tailback on third and long. Proof positive.

I thought all the extra TE's and RB's were max protect for David, which were replaced by extra WR's when Sage was in against Tenn....

Too, there were a lot of things done(though not perfect) for Carr this year-- versatile TE's,new #2 & #3 WR,2 first day OL,etc.--with very little improvement in performance. In fact, he had fewer TD's than last year and only 2 more than his first year...plus he was sacked about 1/3 less this year.

elbison
01-10-2007, 11:37 AM
coachdent:

I agree with your avatar.

Brennan looks awesome. Maybe he'll come out early, and we'll steal him in the 3rd or so. I don't know, the word is on the street so he might even be a 2nd rounder.

thunderkyss
01-10-2007, 11:53 AM
You also keep mentioning the Philadelphia Eagles... They have one of the best offensive lines in the league. LJ Smith is a hybrid tight end who splits out at wideout.

You're right though. Our offense is one of the most diverse in the NFL. Incredible use of motion. Excellent packaging of plays for our best receivers. You're right. I apologize. Everyone is in two tights and fullback / tailback on third and long. Proof positive.

I don't know if their offensive line is all that... McNabb & Garcia have been avoiding alot of sacks with their feet.... but....... eh....

All I'm saying, is that I was watching the Eagles play NewOrleans, with McNabb on NFL replay as I was reading your previous post. They were using the same sets we do, as does the Broncos & the GB Packers. So whatever problems you've noted that slows an offense in those sets down obviously doesn't hinder those teams.

LJ Smith is more of a WR than Owen is...... I'll give you that. Brian Westbrook is a bad motha trucker..... I'll give you that as well. Maybe we use TEs in 3rd & Long more often than they do..... I don't know. I'm just saying other teams use the same formations & personnel packages that we do with more success than we do.

thunderkyss
01-10-2007, 12:06 PM
I thought all the extra TE's and RB's were max protect for David, which were replaced by extra WR's when Sage was in against Tenn....

Too, there were a lot of things done(though not perfect) for Carr this year-- versatile TE's,new #2 & #3 WR,2 first day OL,etc.--with very little improvement in performance. In fact, he had fewer TD's than last year and only 2 more than his first year...plus he was sacked about 1/3 less this year.

In truth, we rarely ever max protect.... I find it odd with our protection issues. We normally have 5 recievers(someone to catch the ball) on every play, and have since Sept 10th.

I'd imagine that we do that to try to get match-ups favorable to us. Unfortunately none of our players causes match-up problems.... none that I see(except when we played Dallas), and David never threw to our running backs or FB if they were lined up on the LOS.

I've got to imagine Kubiak saw a match-up that he liked, because he kept doing it.

I never understood why we wouldn't just come out with 5 recievers(WRs) if we're going to be running empty backfield any way...

but we didn't run a true 5 reciever set or even a true 4 reciever set until Sage played some of that Dallas game.

Now I remember several times in the Dallas game, where we had Aaron Glenn on Moulds( a mis-match in our favor,IMHO) or Owen Daniels(again in our favorable match up in our favor, IMHO) or Greg Ellis maned up on Owen Daniels(definitely a mis-match in our favor) and as far as I can tell, David never even looked at them.

Chance_C
01-10-2007, 12:42 PM
My goodness Tk, do you ever lose an argument? Your posts are like wrecks on the side of the highway, you hate to look at the mess but you just can't help it. Then when you do look, you wish you wouldn't have. Are you a lawyer?

This is a thread about Rick Smith's interview that has been seriously hijacked.
Mods please rename this thread, I'm tired of sifting through here looking for more insight to the interview.....

hollywood_texan
01-10-2007, 01:15 PM
My goodness Tk, do you ever lose an argument? Your posts are like wrecks on the side of the highway, you hate to look at the mess but you just can't help it. Then when you do look, you wish you wouldn't have. Are you a lawyer?

This is a thread about Rick Smith's interview that has been seriously hijacked.
Mods please rename this thread, I'm tired of sifting through here looking for more insight to the interview.....

This what started the thread...

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/HOUSTON-TX/KBME-AM/Rick%20Smith.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=HOUSTON-TX&NG_FORMAT=sports&SITE_ID=589&STATION_ID=KBME-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=Morning_Show&PCAST_CAT=Sports_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Morning_Show_Podcast

Hmm Qb competition

Chance_C, my suggestion is to listen to the audio on the link.

It appears to me the thread is on point regarding the whole Carr discussion.

Listen to the link provided by stickman713, I think that will give you what you need.

Chance_C
01-10-2007, 01:30 PM
Chance_C, my suggestion is to listen to the audio on the link.

It appears to me the thread is on point regarding the whole Carr discussion.

Listen to the link provided by stickman713, I think that will give you what you need.


thanks Hollywood

real
01-10-2007, 01:44 PM
Tell me about it....

I got a negative rep for my Sig....

A sig that I've been forced to sport becuase of a bet....

Just got a negative rep for this post saying:


no ur just an ***** thats why u get neg rep from me too


Luckily most of the posters that can really do damage with a negative rep are above things like this....

SamuraiSword
01-10-2007, 05:16 PM
Just got a negative rep for this post saying:



Luckily most of the posters that can really do damage with a negative rep are above things like this....


Maybe they are just angry at you for having good anti-Carr posts? That seems childish too me if they use cuss words in the reputation comments.

coachdent
01-10-2007, 07:55 PM
My goodness Tk, do you ever lose an argument? Your posts are like wrecks on the side of the highway, you hate to look at the mess but you just can't help it. Then when you do look, you wish you wouldn't have. Are you a lawyer?

This is a thread about Rick Smith's interview that has been seriously hijacked.
Mods please rename this thread, I'm tired of sifting through here looking for more insight to the interview.....

I apologize for digressing and will avoid exhaustive conversation about DC. But... in regards to Rick Smith's comments about Carr:

I thought Smith was extremely candid with the radio guys. Those guys are extremely anti-DC and I have to think Smith knew that. Having said that, he was very frank about the fact that they were not pleased with Carr's performance this year and his ability to do everything asked of him. What is telling about his comments is that before that he used cliche' coachspeak and GM propaganda stuff by saying that they were "pleased with some of the things we were able to do". The radio guys then leaped into putting Carr on the coals. I guess if I'm a radio guy interviewing him, I ask him, "Like what? What were you pleased with?" Give him an opportunity to point out those things besides Ryans.

He did say that every position was up for competition which is true, but he contradicted himself IMO when he said that you supplement through free agency and build through the draft. Well that may historically be true and from a long range planning perspective this is true. But this is a team that needs significant upgrades at virtually every position. I do not think that we can be "supplemental" in free agency. Free agency happens before the draft, so we don't know what exactly we will have to supplement! Hopefully we can get one or two starters there.

I think his comment about not making mistakes in this day and age with the salary cap is perhaps a backhanded slap at the idea of committing money to Carr last year and rightfully so. It was silly to reup him.

I was hopeful with his comments about Spencer. Hopefully that optimism will see him come back strong from rehab. He is a huge part of our future and immediate success.

old football fan
01-10-2007, 08:15 PM
I don't think it was a slap to D. Carr but a big slap to the former GM and Coach for screwing this team up. I feel very good about Kubiak and Smith getting this team on the right track. May take couple of years but I'll keep the faith.

Honoring Earl 34
01-10-2007, 08:22 PM
The former front office made a lot of average players very rich .

dbspi
01-10-2007, 08:24 PM
Exactly what I was going to say - 5 years of watching this team and what ive seen is 5 years of inconcsistent play for the most part all over the team. That speaks volumes about one thing to me - A Lack of quality depth. Sicne we are a new team that was an understood thing for me, but so many people here expect so much from an infantile franchise it boggles my mind. Seriously its real hard to win games in this league with street scrubs as your starters at over 50% of your line positions. Injuries really scocked it to us this year and exposed our lack of depth all around and cost us more than one game this year.

Yes Carr is a 5 year vet - A vet with 4 Oc's - never a decent O-line in that time, an inconsistent at best running game and only 1 wr threat whom is doubled almost every play since his first year and yet its always DC is the problem because the offense starts and ends with the QB. I'll grant you the guy makes some mistakes - Every QB in the league does, but people need to be realistic too. I think he should compete for his job next year and the staff plans to do their part to make that happen, but dont be surprised if another guy starts and the same results happen folks.

Does Carr deserve some of the blame - Sure - He's made mistakes and hasnt always come ready to play. Sometimes I felt that was a motivation deal, sometiems lack of focus - other times a lack of faith in those around him playing.

But my question is has Carr had a fair chance to succeed in the time he's been with the team? - My answer is no.

This year is a good example - Most of this year at any given time the team got in a rhythm - something went wrong. Penalties, injuries, mistakes on both sides of the ball. Bottom line as Kubiak put it - they were inconsistent.

IMO football is a game of consistency & depth. If you can limit your mistakes you give yourself an opportunity to win and if you have depth you can outlast your opponent when things go wrong [injuries] or players tire. 9 out of 10 times you win games by forcing your opponent to beat themselves, not because you beat them straight up in a talent contest, but because you didnt make as many mistakes as the other team did and you outlast them in the mental mistakes. New England is great example of this and a mutliple super bowl winner in the league not because of flash, or better talent [see Jabar Gaffney], but because they are consistent on both sides of the ball, strive for depth at all positions and limit their mistakes overall in a game to allow them to sit back and let other teams implode. They make you beat yourself by controlling what they can do - by being consistent and mistake free.

Time and time again Kubiak preached this concept all year long. This Team by and large has a hard time competing because of mistakes all over the field - We arent consistent at hardly any position on the field not just at the QB position. We certainly didnt lose some games this year this year simply because of our QB's poor play. Lack of a running game, defensevie errors, injuries, lack of mental focus etc.. We were not consistent all around and our team is to blame for that - not just the guy hiking the ball.

Taking just this year as an example - The first half of the year David CArr was Rated #1-#2 in pass efficiency and QB rating - yet here at the end of the year people on this board are saying he's the worst ever and regressed to a has-been. Something is wrong with that in a lot of ways, because the problem is consistency. David wasnt consistent. Neither was the o-line, the running game, the Wr play, the Te game - 4 centers later and people think DC is the only problem.

It's going to be really sad next year if DC is gone and another QB comes in and does just as poorly because he doesnt have time to throw the ball, his recievers are dropping balls and not running full routes, the running game cant get going, our secondary is allowing back to back 80+yard plays and our special teams cant make a chip shot field goal or field a punt.

I can see it now people will be calling for whomever the QB is to be cut or benched.

This team lacks depth and being consistent plain and simple. Until we can get to a point we can play mistake free ball and have better depth across the board I forsee us still struggling.

My pick is 7-9 next year or 8-8 at best

Couldn't agree more with your assessment of the situation. Unless we bring in more talent and depth to the team we will continue to struggle. All those wasted picks the first three years of the franchise is coming back to bite us.

As far as Kubiak is concerned he is headed in the right direction but it will take time. I am thinking it will take another 2 - 3 years for our roster to fill out and it will give kubiak time to bring in the personnel he needs. Currently he doesn't have the personnel to run his ZBS scheme or any other scheme for that matter. 2006 season meant more for evaluation of the team personnel and I am expecting allot of changes this off season. Other factor that didn't help matter was so many injury to key position. Again it concerns roster depth of the team.

NATHANHALE
01-11-2007, 02:23 AM
The days of keeping the same HC for years to build and re-build and re-build some more are over, as HC are on a 'shorter' leash to 'win' now.

With the effects of money constraints for players, it's virtually impossible to put together an entire roster that fits a HC 'dream' at every position. If a HC is not winning by his 3rd year--sooner in some cases (Turner,Shell,etc.)--he's history. Teams want coaches like Payton and Mangini that succeed 'right out' the box.

And,IMO, new HC's that are 'hamstringed' by their owners are in a 'real' up hill battle.

Maybe I'm off base, but I don't think Kubiak-or any other new HC for that matter-is going to get years and years to hand-pick a 'perfect roster.' Owners want HC that can win with what they have and a 'little' re-tooling--making major roster changes every year is just another 'clog' in the 'more time' spinning wheel to 'gel' and in some cases--like ours--is a never ending scenario.

dbspi
01-11-2007, 04:04 AM
The days of keeping the same HC for years to build and re-build and re-build some more are over, as HC are on a 'shorter' leash to 'win' now.

With the effects of money constraints for players, it's virtually impossible to put together an entire roster that fits a HC 'dream' at every position. If a HC is not winning by his 3rd year--sooner in some cases (Turner,Shell,etc.)--he's history. Teams want coaches like Payton and Mangini that succeed 'right out' the box.

And,IMO, new HC's that are 'hamstringed' by their owners are in a 'real' up hill battle.

Maybe I'm off base, but I don't think Kubiak-or any other new HC for that matter-is going to get years and years to hand-pick a 'perfect roster.' Owners want HC that can win with what they have and a 'little' re-tooling--making major roster changes every year is just another 'clog' in the 'more time' spinning wheel to 'gel' and in some cases--like ours--is a never ending scenario.

Its very true what you are saying but I am not a cap expert and I can't tell you how much money we have to spend this off season since allot of those money (dead money) are still tied to players who are no longer on the teams.

I guess within 3 months we will find out what the management have done in the free agency. I doubt the best FA will come to the Texans, especially with our low cap room

thunderkyss
01-11-2007, 07:02 AM
The days of keeping the same HC for years to build and re-build and re-build some more are over, as HC are on a 'shorter' leash to 'win' now.

With the effects of money constraints for players, it's virtually impossible to put together an entire roster that fits a HC 'dream' at every position. If a HC is not winning by his 3rd year--sooner in some cases (Turner,Shell,etc.)--he's history. Teams want coaches like Payton and Mangini that succeed 'right out' the box.


I agree..... But I expect the Saints, the Titans, & the JEts to have solid years in '07 before I'd say their approach is "better" than the "evaluate" your positions in '06 that alot of folks want to pin on Kubiak's first season.

real
01-11-2007, 07:56 AM
He did say that every position was up for competition which is true...

I don't believe that's true...

Mr. White
01-11-2007, 08:16 AM
He did say that every position was up for competition which is true, but he contradicted himself IMO when he said that you supplement through free agency and build through the draft.


They do contradict themselves in these interviews.

When they (Smith and Kubes) get asked about Carr, they say that he's going to be evaluated...then they say everyone's getting evaluated. They don't say that he's going to be here in the future.

But then they also talk about having a group of guys to build around in the same interviews. Usually they mention Dunta, Mario and DeMeco as guys to build around.

real
01-11-2007, 08:33 AM
Th Usually they mention Dunta, Mario and DeMeco as guys to build around.

And A.J...

That's what I mean when I say every position is not up for comp...