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GP
01-03-2007, 05:30 PM
Both teams have clunky QBs, with Steve McNair being only a slightly better QB than Grossman.

Both teams have, IMO, average RBs in Thomas Jones/Cedric Benson and then Jamaal Lewis with the Ravens. Not exactly the most dynamic runners in the NFL right now.

But the common denominator for both teams, is this: An elite defense.

Frankly, I'd be happy with ANYBODY at QB, and ANYBODY at RB if it meant that we focused our draft and free agency on building one of the best defenses in the NFL.

Ryans and Williams are both a great start. Perhaps we could build off that success and continue to solidify our defense?

On the other hand, we see teams like Lions and Cardinals (consistently at the top draft spots) who attempt to stock their roster with potent offensive stars...and then only to sputter because they are always playing from behind.

When I saw Chicago do to Arizona what they did on Monday night, I was sold on the impact team-wide of a great defense.

It can mask so many weaknesses.

Bears and Ravens have been doing it with defense. And all the while, their offense is fairly inept if you ask me.

Kubiak strikes me as the kind of guy that will tolerate Carr-Lundy-Dayne-Taylor for at least one more year. He'll offer compeitition for those positions during camp, but I think he'll focus the draft and early free agency moreso on the d side of the ball.

And that means no AP, no Quinn, no flashy WR with our first round pick.

I'll go on record right now and say that we'll draft defense with our first round pick.

tulexan
01-03-2007, 05:38 PM
Jamal Lewis had 2000 yards a few years ago, he has had a few down years, but he isn't just an average RB

Texan_Bill
01-03-2007, 05:40 PM
D E F E N S E ! D E F E N S E !D E F E N S E ! D E F E N S E !

thunderkyss
01-03-2007, 05:41 PM
Top 10 defenses.....
Baltimore
Jacksonville
Oakland
Miami
Chicago
NewEngland
Carolina
Minnesota
Pittsburgh
SanDiego

6 of 10 are not in the playoffs.

It's not as easy or as one sided as you say.
two of those teams are better than Chicago defensively, and both will have top 10 picks. One of those teams will pick #1 overall.

Offense, defense, Special Teams, FA, Draft......... lets not be picky, and improve in all areas..

NEROtheZERO
01-03-2007, 05:43 PM
A time control offense does amazing things for a defense, the Colts' game is a perfect example. I think a talented RB could makes strides for our defense. With that being said, that kind of RB does not have to be found with the 8th pick. My number one choice for us is to pick Landry but I wouldn't be upset at all to see us going after Peterson or Lynch.

everardo7206
01-03-2007, 05:52 PM
Top 10 defenses.....
Baltimore
Jacksonville
Oakland
Miami
Chicago
NewEngland
Carolina
Minnesota
Pittsburgh
SanDiego

6 of 10 are not in the playoffs.

It's not as easy or as one sided as you say.
two of those teams are better than Chicago defensively, and both will have top 10 picks. One of those teams will pick #1 overall.

Offense, defense, Special Teams, FA, Draft......... lets not be picky, and improve in all areas..


oakland a top defense?
mm


idk but last time their offense showed up was the AFC championship game vs the titans in 03'

Texan_Bill
01-03-2007, 05:57 PM
Top 10 defenses.....
Baltimore - AFC
Jacksonville - AFC
Oakland - AFC
Miami - AFC
Chicago - Nancy Football Conference
NewEngland - AFC
Carolina - Nancy Football Conference
Minnesota- Nancy Football Conference
Pittsburgh - AFC
SanDiego - AFC

6 of 10 are not in the playoffs.

It's not as easy or as one sided as you say.
two of those teams are better than Chicago defensively, and both will have top 10 picks. One of those teams will pick #1 overall.

Offense, defense, Special Teams, FA, Draft......... lets not be picky, and improve in all areas..

It kind of is if you consider that 7 of those 10 teams are in the AFC which we all know is a tougher conference.

I like it when teams commit to one side of the ball for that off-season. Get one side of the ball relatively healthy instead of trying to patch-work the whole team... But I agree with you in that it really does take all 3 phases to be relatively and consistently good...

AtheGreat
01-03-2007, 06:10 PM
also, another thing those teams have in common is a pretty nasty Oline. having an average qb like those 2 teams do, takes the pressure of the Q to make the big play and instead they usually make long drives and punch it in near the goal line.

i agree with you that a good defense is an excellent place to start building (especialy our team) but its not all the simple. one dimentional teams just don't survive in the NFL. see: hou v colts, bears' close one w/ ari. teams with solid starters and a few playmakers on each side of the ball are the ones that will walk away with a :trophy: .

mark it down neither the bears, colts, or balt, will be in Miami come febuary.

brewhaus
01-03-2007, 06:22 PM
Building a solid defense is something that is vital to the Texans success, there is no doubt about it. There are plenty of quality defensive FA players available this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2674183

It will be interesting to see how the Texans go forward with building the team this year but one thing is certain, "impact players" need to be added to the team on both sides of the ball.

Scooter
01-03-2007, 06:27 PM
Top 10 defenses.....
Baltimore
Jacksonville
Oakland
Miami
Chicago
NewEngland
Carolina
Minnesota
Pittsburgh
SanDiego

6 of 10 are not in the playoffs.

It's not as easy or as one sided as you say.
two of those teams are better than Chicago defensively, and both will have top 10 picks. One of those teams will pick #1 overall.

Offense, defense, Special Teams, FA, Draft......... lets not be picky, and improve in all areas..

carolina shouldnt be up there since they've given away more than a handful of 4th quarter leads this year. the steelers won the superbowl last season. miami's defense is the only reason they had more than 2 wins (and were 31st in passing td's allowed). oakland only has a strong pass defense, they're 23rd or lower against the run.

jacksonville's the only real anomoly to gp's rule because they have a strong defense, and even have a good offensive line & running game. probably why they were 12-4 last year and even after losing games they shouldnt have, went 8-8 this year.

thunderkyss
01-03-2007, 06:31 PM
carolina shouldnt be up there since they've given away more than a handful of 4th quarter leads this year. the steelers won the superbowl last season. miami's defense is the only reason they had more than 2 wins (and were 31st in passing td's allowed). oakland only has a strong pass defense, they're 23rd or lower against the run.

jacksonville's the only real anomoly to gp's rule because they have a strong defense, and even have a good offensive line & running game. probably why they were 12-4 last year and even after losing games they shouldnt have, went 8-8 this year.

I didn't make that list up. that's the way they are ranked on NFL.com for total defense.

amazingandre
01-03-2007, 06:33 PM
ya it will be balt and prolly the bears in the super bowl.. watch............

thunderkyss
01-03-2007, 06:36 PM
ya it will be balt and prolly the bears in the super bowl.. watch............

Indy & Philly.......

Scooter
01-03-2007, 06:39 PM
I didn't make that list up. that's the way they are ranked on NFL.com for total defense.

sorry, i didnt mean to imply that you did. i just disagree with some of those being the top defensive teams because several were only strong in one area. oakland was pass only. miami was run only. carolina only played 3 quarters. denver should've been up there.

TheRealJoker
01-03-2007, 07:02 PM
There is a difference in total defense yards allowed and total defense points allowed.

hollywood_texan
01-03-2007, 07:11 PM
I am a defense guy all the way.

But, what I have come to realize is that if you want to compete with the elite on the college or NFL level on a consistent basis in this day and age, you have to able to score a lot of points on any given gameday.

I like the idea of building a superior defense, but that seems to a be a lot harder to do with a lot less guarantee if you build your team around scoring a lot of points.

The Bears and Ravens are great examples, like you described. But with 32 teams, free agency, and rookie contracts of 4 - 5 years, it seems to be tough to sustain over an extended of period time to always produce winning records. Just look at how the Ravens and Bears bounce around from year to year and some team usually has their number in the playoffs.

The Texans need to start scoring more points! And scoring points has been the problem all along...

TexanBronco
01-03-2007, 07:24 PM
ya i so agree with you gpshafer_1976 and thats why i am still gonna say keep carr cause 1st off the texans will MOSTdefinitly not get anything good for him imo and just keep build the D and make it the strong point the offince really is not too bad they just need a line IMO afterall D wins games

Silver Oak
01-03-2007, 07:26 PM
Having a feared defense would be even more fun to cheer than a prolific offense (IMO). Hitters, awesome rushers, speed...now that would be fun.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-03-2007, 07:42 PM
The main reason the Ravens have been able to maintain such a great defense for so long is because they do an excellent job of drafting players and developing talent. Just look at how many second day picks and undrafted players they have had turn into very productive starters.

Kelly Gregg (6th round pick of the Bengals who the Ravens picked up out of the scrap heap)
Bart Scott (undrafted)
Adalius Thomas (6th round pick)
Dawan Landry (5th round pick)
Will Demps (undrafted)
Ed Hartwell (4th round pick)
Marques Douglas (undrafted)
Ma'ake Kemoeatu (undrafted)


Then take a look at their defensive first round picks where they NEVER miss...

1996 Ray Lewis
1997 Peter Boulware
1998 Duane Starks
1999 Chris McAlister
2002 Ed Reed
2003 Terrell Suggs
2006 Haloti Ngata

gtexan02
01-03-2007, 07:58 PM
Heres something else to consider:

Lovie Smith - Defensive guru
Brian Billick - Defensive guru

Gary Kubiak - Offensive guru

Don't expect to see a defense like either of those temas any time soon

Honoring Earl 34
01-03-2007, 08:00 PM
Heres something else to consider:

Lovie Smith - Defensive guru
Brian Billick - Defensive guru

Gary Kubiak - Offensive guru

Don't expect to see a defense like either of those temas any time soon

Billick was an OC from Minnesota .

Texans_Chick
01-03-2007, 08:04 PM
I worry a lot about our defense.

Other than our linebacker and defensive line coach, I am non-fond of the rest of them.

If I were an elite FA, I would not want to come play for Richard Smith. It is hard enough to get people to come to a team with little success, much less to come play for a guy that his best supporters will say is "intense."

In a salary cap world, you can't just compete with paying the most dollars to someone. You compete partially by having coaches that players want to work with, someone with a track record of success, someone who you want to run through a brick wall for.

The Texans players do not usually dump coaches in the grease. The most they will do is publicly praise the guys they like, and just not say things publicly about the guys they don't care for.

I do not fault the Texans for hiring Smith as I am not sure that there were that many better options at the time. And I doubt that a defensive coaching change is something on their agenda for this offseason, but I can't say I saw much to feel confident about in the upcoming year. I hope I am completely wrong.

Honoring Earl 34
01-03-2007, 08:09 PM
If Demeco and Mario keep improving ... they'll come .

Samer
01-03-2007, 08:13 PM
We should just make our defense a combinaton of Baltimore and Chicago's Defense and our offense a combination of Indi's passing game and Pittsburgh running game haha

Texans_Chick
01-03-2007, 08:16 PM
If Demeco and Mario keep improving ... they'll come .

Lots of talented guys in the league to play with.

We will have to overpay unless we have something better to offer than a hot training camp, losing seasons, little tradition and a DC who is a little wound up.

aj.
01-03-2007, 08:25 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4432067.html

Kalu's a big fan of his boss: coordinator Richard Smith

By MEGAN MANFULL
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

As the season has progressed, the players have bought into the defensive scheme Richard Smith implemented. Veteran N.D. Kalu wants to see the players now adopt Smith's attitude, too.

"Coach Smith is a nut," Kalu said. "He's aggressive, and you want to take on his personality when you go out there. I feel we weren't doing it, and it was a slap in the face to him.

"When I first met him, I thought he was fake. Nobody can be this energetic all the time. But he's never changed in the whole six months. And he's one of those coaches that if you take on his personality, you're going to be a dominant defense.



Sounds a little more complimentary than "he's intense" to me.

Honoring Earl 34
01-03-2007, 08:26 PM
I would hope their more than just talented . I'm hoping for two All-Pro's for years to come . That and no state income tax .

Texans_Chick
01-03-2007, 09:16 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4432067.html



Sounds a little more complimentary than "he's intense" to me.

I saw that. Personally, I thought I was being kind as I would rather be described as intense than nuts, but I suppose I'm a bit of both.

It will be the only positive thing you read in the paper about him from his players, I bet. (The players are finally buying into his scheme. That's an endorsement). I've been looking on this point. I know John McClain is a big fan of RS, so I am hoping I am completely out to lunch on this.

Usually, the word players use to describe him is crazy if you talk to them.

I've heard unhappy player things through the grapevine, but you know how that is.

One way or another, I am not sure he is the type of DC that players will say that they came to the team specifically to play for. As a factual matter and not gossip, it is not like he has a long impressive track record to point to. The Texans settled when they hired him, and I am not sure that they could get anyone better, but that doesn't mean this isn't going to be an issue.

As I said, I hope to be totally and completely wrong about this.

The Pencil Neck
01-03-2007, 09:59 PM
Heres something else to consider:

Lovie Smith - Defensive guru
Brian Billick - Defensive guru

Gary Kubiak - Offensive guru

Don't expect to see a defense like either of those temas any time soon


Billick is an Offensive Guru and was brought in to Baltimore because they had a good defense and they wanted a high scoring offense like Billick put together at the Vikings.

I wouldn't mind Kubiak becoming another Offensive Guru who builds a team on defense.

Silver Oak
01-03-2007, 10:00 PM
Sunday, in the postgame, Dunta said they thought he was "fake" at first, that no one could be that intense all of the time, but now they see he is passionate about his defense and that brings the intensity on. He went on to say that the players are buying into the defense now.

I would think someone would go to the HC if, as a team, the defense doesn't like the DC.

The Pencil Neck
01-03-2007, 10:01 PM
As I said, I hope to be totally and completely wrong about this.

Great.

Thanks.

Like I didn't have enough to worry about.

brewhaus
01-04-2007, 06:41 AM
.........but I can't say I saw much to feel confident about in the upcoming year. I hope I am completely wrong.

Utopian Dreamer Huh?

I hope you are wrong too.

SESupergenius
01-04-2007, 07:15 AM
I actually like the defense and the way they are headed. They need 3 glaring spots to shore up. A #1 cornerback and move Dunta to the #2 spot, a Safety that is as strong a presense as Polamalu, Dawkins, or Roy Williams, and a DT that is a beast.
We were way more aggressive in trying to get to the QB this year and the defense started to cause turnovers towards the end of the season. The biggest thing about them however is that they never let up on the system and even though were were not in contention for anything, they still held the Colts down and provided us with game breaking turnovers against the Browns when our offense was so horrible. That to me spoke volumes in how they are coming together. We just need more pieces to the pie because when your DT starters are guys that are 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart to start the season, other teams are going to try and exploit that.

trutexan02
01-04-2007, 07:22 AM
Top 10 defenses.....
Baltimore
Jacksonville
Oakland
Miami
Chicago
NewEngland
Carolina
Minnesota
Pittsburgh
SanDiego

6 of 10 are not in the playoffs.

It's not as easy or as one sided as you say.
two of those teams are better than Chicago defensively, and both will have top 10 picks. One of those teams will pick #1 overall.

Offense, defense, Special Teams, FA, Draft......... lets not be picky, and improve in all areas..
Of course you have to make an exception for Oakland. Their Offense wasn't decent or even bad... It was atrocious.

That came as no suprise to me.

You pick up Aaron Brooks and expect to win. What a bum!

aj.
01-04-2007, 07:23 AM
If I were an elite FA, I would not want to come play for Richard Smith.



I don't have first hand knowledge of what the players think about Smith so I can't even comment on that...

We all hear these little whispers and can imagine things, but unless you're in that locker room and meeting rooms on a regular basis, there's really no way to know...

I don't treat the info I get from my media contacts as gold either, because I know it's sometimes as (or more) speculative and agenda driven than what we read here.

I certainly won't throw the guy under the bus because of the lack of positive news articles about him, or because of a limited track record.

And I'm glad he's a bit crazy (especially since it appears the gimmickery from the Glanville days is gone). It beats that deadbeat Fangio guy...

After the terrible first three games, the defense seemed to gel as much as they could, considering personnel. They were playing hard until the end which tells me a lot about how they feel about their system and their coaches.

And if I was an elite FA, I'd be looking at payday first, situation second. That would probably put me in the 90th percentile of NFL job seekers with more than 4 years of accrued service.

thunderkyss
01-04-2007, 08:12 AM
I worry a lot about our defense.

Other than our linebacker and defensive line coach, I am non-fond of the rest of them.

If I were an elite FA, I would not want to come play for Richard Smith. It is hard enough to get people to come to a team with little success, much less to come play for a guy that his best supporters will say is "intense."

In a salary cap world, you can't just compete with paying the most dollars to someone. You compete partially by having coaches that players want to work with, someone with a track record of success, someone who you want to run through a brick wall for.

The Texans players do not usually dump coaches in the grease. The most they will do is publicly praise the guys they like, and just not say things publicly about the guys they don't care for.

I do not fault the Texans for hiring Smith as I am not sure that there were that many better options at the time. And I doubt that a defensive coaching change is something on their agenda for this offseason, but I can't say I saw much to feel confident about in the upcoming year. I hope I am completely wrong.


true.... true....

But we've also got some great charismatic guys on our team that might help to pull players in. Anthony Weaver is very well spoken, and very upbeat. If there's a young DT out there on the fence, about whether to come here or not, I think Weaver could persuade them.... especially with the way he talks about Mario.

Same could be said for Greenwood, Dunta, & Earl. Those are the kind of guys I'd like to hang around... guys I'd like to play with.

They might not bring your big name guys in... like Nate Clements, or Ray Lewis. But definitely less known solid players like themselves.

moses77550
01-04-2007, 11:05 AM
I kinda agree......I think we should build a powerful defense...I think with DW(formally DD) coming back healthy(i hope) and all the other running backs we should be ok. We definitely need to do something with the line and I think
Carr will be fine at least for one more season if we do something about are offensive line.

HoustonFrog
01-04-2007, 11:18 AM
Heres something else to consider:

Lovie Smith - Defensive guru
Brian Billick - Defensive guru

Gary Kubiak - Offensive guru

Don't expect to see a defense like either of those temas any time soon

Not only that but if you look at the teams that win SBs the defense mantra isn't always the key. The Ravens did it one year and have a good team this year. The Bears have had one for years and it still hasn't paid off and honestly, may not this year because of the offense. You need a well rounded team. The NFL is an always changing league. The year after the Ravens SB they went down. After people were stunned by the Rams SB runs with all their offense, teams adjusted. You can't rely on one side or the other. I think the best team that is well rounded right now is SD. They have both O and D studs and guys in the right place running the show. They also have some players that don't need to take over a game but can if asked.

Fixing one side is too simplistic because the NFL is ever evolving and this years hard hitting safety or next big thing might be extinct in a year when people are running out faster receivers or changing offenses.

Second Honeymoon
01-04-2007, 11:33 AM
The main reason the Ravens have been able to maintain such a great defense for so long is because they do an excellent job of drafting players and developing talent. Just look at how many second day picks and undrafted players they have had turn into very productive starters.

Kelly Gregg (6th round pick of the Bengals who the Ravens picked up out of the scrap heap)
Bart Scott (undrafted)
Adalius Thomas (6th round pick)
Dawan Landry (5th round pick)
Will Demps (undrafted)
Ed Hartwell (4th round pick)
Marques Douglas (undrafted)
Ma'ake Kemoeatu (undrafted)


Then take a look at their defensive first round picks where they NEVER miss...

[b]1996 Ray Lewis
1997 Peter Boulware
1998 Duane Starks
1999 Chris McAlister
2002 Ed Reed
2003 Terrell Suggs
2006 Haloti Ngata[b]

Please notice that all their players come from established football schools including the likes of Miami, Florida State, and the Arizona schools. All traditional hotspots for NFL talent. We counter this by drafting 1st round talent from the likes of Fresno State and Western Michigan...then we wonder why these guys are never worth where they were picked?

we have drafted some Mia-FL and FSU guys and have had our hits (AJ) and misses (TJ) but you just don't draft guys from 2nd tier and 3rd tier conferences in the 1st Round. Casserley has always been more concerned about trying to prove that he knows something that no one else knows and much less concerned about drafting quality NFL prospects and trying to win.

I know Smith isn't anything like Casserley and hopefully it shows in this offseason FA moves and in the 2007 NFL Draft. I believe in Smith and rest assured we wont draft anyone from a non-BCS conference in the 1st round....no doubt about it...that is something morons like Casserley do

CoogBull
01-04-2007, 11:46 AM
I have been thinking this over for a long time and I support going for a balanced attack. At our spot we need to just pick the BPA whoever they are. If it is an offensive player then so be it.

I think we have a defense that will soon be a seen as one of the best in the NFL. We still lack many things on defense like a good Safety and a stud OLB, but those can be picked up.

Still, I think a balanced attack is better than focusing on one side of the ball. When you focus on one side there will come a day when that side is just not getting it done. Now you must depend on the offense or defense you have neglected.

In this draft I see a lot of opportunity. We have many holes to fill, as we did last year, but without the pressure of the #1 pick. I think that we need to take the BPA with our first selection. We have so many holes that anyone will be useful.

I am opposed to going only defense because of the steep learning curve. It will take several seasons to get a Bears style defense on the field unless we spend a lot of money on FAs.

Second Honeymoon
01-04-2007, 11:58 AM
I have been thinking this over for a long time and I support going for a balanced attack. At our spot we need to just pick the BPA whoever they are. If it is an offensive player then so be it.

I think we have a defense that will soon be a seen as one of the best in the NFL. We still lack many things on defense like a good Safety and a stud OLB, but those can be picked up.

Still, I think a balanced attack is better than focusing on one side of the ball. When you focus on one side there will come a day when that side is just not getting it done. Now you must depend on the offense or defense you have neglected.

In this draft I see a lot of opportunity. We have many holes to fill, as we did last year, but without the pressure of the #1 pick. I think that we need to take the BPA with our first selection. We have so many holes that anyone will be useful.

I am opposed to going only defense because of the steep learning curve. It will take several seasons to get a Bears style defense on the field unless we spend a lot of money on FAs.

I agree man. get the best player available with an eye toward CB, FS, OLB/DE, and OL depth. You are right on that we are a few players away from having a very good defense. If we can fill those holes with quality players we can possibly mature into a dominant defense pretty rapidly.

Insideop
01-04-2007, 02:40 PM
I actually like the defense and the way they are headed. They need 3 glaring spots to shore up. A #1 cornerback and move Dunta to the #2 spot, a Safety that is as strong a presense as Polamalu, Dawkins, or Roy Williams, and a DT that is a beast.
We were way more aggressive in trying to get to the QB this year and the defense started to cause turnovers towards the end of the season. The biggest thing about them however is that they never let up on the system and even though were were not in contention for anything, they still held the Colts down and provided us with game breaking turnovers against the Browns when our offense was so horrible. That to me spoke volumes in how they are coming together. We just need more pieces to the pie because when your DT starters are guys that are 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart to start the season, other teams are going to try and exploit that.

The DT's that finished the season for us (Maddox, Thomas Johnson, Dalton, Killings) weren't even on the team to start the season. They were all picked up by Rick Smith as one by one our DT's went on IR. Most of these guys played ok during the season, and Maddox has probably earned a shot at making the team next season. This gives me a lot of hope for what Kubes and Rick Smith will do in this offseason. JMHO!

SESupergenius
01-04-2007, 04:33 PM
The DT's that finished the season for us (Maddox, Thomas Johnson, Dalton, Killings) weren't even on the team to start the season. They were all picked up by Rick Smith as one by one our DT's went on IR. Most of these guys played ok during the season, and Maddox has probably earned a shot at making the team next season. This gives me a lot of hope for what Kubes and Rick Smith will do in this offseason. JMHO!

I'd have to agree, Maddox played well for his role. But can you imagine if we actually had starters playing there. That right there gives me hope for this defense.

Texans_Chick
01-04-2007, 04:54 PM
I don't have first hand knowledge of what the players think about Smith so I can't even comment on that...

We all hear these little whispers and can imagine things, but unless you're in that locker room and meeting rooms on a regular basis, there's really no way to know...

I don't treat the info I get from my media contacts as gold either, because I know it's sometimes as (or more) speculative and agenda driven than what we read here.

I certainly won't throw the guy under the bus because of the lack of positive news articles about him, or because of a limited track record.

And I'm glad he's a bit crazy (especially since it appears the gimmickery from the Glanville days is gone). It beats that deadbeat Fangio guy...

After the terrible first three games, the defense seemed to gel as much as they could, considering personnel. They were playing hard until the end which tells me a lot about how they feel about their system and their coaches.

And if I was an elite FA, I'd be looking at payday first, situation second. That would probably put me in the 90th percentile of NFL job seekers with more than 4 years of accrued service.

Yup, not in the locker room, so maybe the team really truly wants to run through walls for the guy and respect the heck out of what he does.

With an offensive minded head coach, I personally would feel better having a defensive coordinator who has more of a respected track record over time. I understand that those guys aren't beating our doors down, nor are the Texans likely to throw RS to the side after one season.

At least short term, there were players who wanted to come to the Texans to play for Kubiak. I'm not sure the same thing will happen on defense, but I guess money will talk.

Given the switch to the 4-3, and the personnel issues and injuries, it is hard to judge Smith in year one. I am non-whelmed, and to be honest, not particularly more optimistic than I was here: link (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/09/if_the_texans_defense_were_a_t.html)

As I said, I hope to be absolutely wrong.

aj.
01-04-2007, 05:40 PM
At least short term, there were players who wanted to come to the Texans to play for Kubiak. I'm not sure the same thing will happen on defense, but I guess money will talk.


It did for Weaver -- who happened to be one of the more sought after DLs in FA last March.

Texans_Chick
01-04-2007, 08:35 PM
It did for Weaver -- who happened to be one of the more sought after DLs in FA last March.

I just wish the Texans had something more to offer than gee we have no state income tax and here's a wheelbarrow of money.

Do you have concerns about the DC position? I truly would like to know your point of view about this.

utahmark
01-04-2007, 08:37 PM
Both teams have clunky QBs, with Steve McNair being only a slightly better QB than Grossman.

Both teams have, IMO, average RBs in Thomas Jones/Cedric Benson and then Jamaal Lewis with the Ravens. Not exactly the most dynamic runners in the NFL right now.

But the common denominator for both teams, is this: An elite defense.

Frankly, I'd be happy with ANYBODY at QB, and ANYBODY at RB if it meant that we focused our draft and free agency on building one of the best defenses in the NFL.

Ryans and Williams are both a great start. Perhaps we could build off that success and continue to solidify our defense?

On the other hand, we see teams like Lions and Cardinals (consistently at the top draft spots) who attempt to stock their roster with potent offensive stars...and then only to sputter because they are always playing from behind.

When I saw Chicago do to Arizona what they did on Monday night, I was sold on the impact team-wide of a great defense.

It can mask so many weaknesses.

Bears and Ravens have been doing it with defense. And all the while, their offense is fairly inept if you ask me.

Kubiak strikes me as the kind of guy that will tolerate Carr-Lundy-Dayne-Taylor for at least one more year. He'll offer compeitition for those positions during camp, but I think he'll focus the draft and early free agency moreso on the d side of the ball.

And that means no AP, no Quinn, no flashy WR with our first round pick.

I'll go on record right now and say that we'll draft defense with our first round pick.

i would be fine with that.

utahmark
01-04-2007, 09:07 PM
Please notice that all their players come from established football schools including the likes of Miami, Florida State, and the Arizona schools. All traditional hotspots for NFL talent. We counter this by drafting 1st round talent from the likes of Fresno State and Western Michigan...then we wonder why these guys are never worth where they were picked?

we have drafted some Mia-FL and FSU guys and have had our hits (AJ) and misses (TJ) but you just don't draft guys from 2nd tier and 3rd tier conferences in the 1st Round. Casserley has always been more concerned about trying to prove that he knows something that no one else knows and much less concerned about drafting quality NFL prospects and trying to win.

I know Smith isn't anything like Casserley and hopefully it shows in this offseason FA moves and in the 2007 NFL Draft. I believe in Smith and rest assured we wont draft anyone from a non-BCS conference in the 1st round....no doubt about it...that is something morons like Casserley do

daunte is from south carolina and mario is from n.c. state. not exactly big nfl programs. unless your ready to call mario a bust then we are 1 and 1 on the big schools and 2 and 2 on the smaller programs.

randy moss and marshall faulk. jerry rice was out of mississippi valley. the list could go on forever.

utahmark
01-04-2007, 09:22 PM
I just wish the Texans had something more to offer than gee we have no state income tax and here's a wheelbarrow of money.

Do you have concerns about the DC position? I truly would like to know your point of view about this.

dont think you were talking about my opinion but ill give it. i am fine with our dc right now. i think he wanted to get pressure with our front 4 but he realized that wasnt going to happen early in the season and after that we started playing together and by the end of the year i think we were in the top half in the leage. thats pretty good improvement for 1 year imo.

as for as what we got to offer players we have more than just money and our tax benifits. we have a new state of the art facility. we have one of the better owners in the league. and even though we havent started winning yet most impessions on our front office and ownership are positive. ive read more than one article that said we were doing things the right way and we would be a solid franchise for a long time. we also have a solid fanbase and still sell out even after 5 losing seasons(not sure about the end of this year). houston is also a bigger city and most of the players seem to like it. many athletes that dont even play here call houston home.

the biggest negative has been our play and i think the last couple of wins along with a lot of close losses could convince players we are turning things around. now after this year if we still play poorly and then lose a guy like andre or d-rob. then i would start to be worried about us being one of those perineal losers.

Runner
01-04-2007, 10:09 PM
as for as what we got to offer players we have more than just money and our tax benifits. 1) we have a new state of the art facility. 2) we have one of the better owners in the league. and even though we havent started winning yet 3) most impessions on our front office and ownership are positive. ive read more than one article that said 4) we were doing things the right way and we would be a solid franchise for a long time. we also have a solid fanbase and still sell out even after 5 losing seasons(not sure about the end of this year). houston is also a bigger city and most of the players seem to like it. many athletes that dont even play here call houston home.

5) the biggest negative has been our play and i think the last couple of wins along with a lot of close losses could convince players we are turning things around. now after this year if we still play poorly and then lose a guy like andre or d-rob. then i would start to be worried about us being one of those perineal losers.

I don't agree with a few of items being big selling points for the team.

1) Yes, we have a state of the art facility for training and play, but we do that same training in possibly the worst conditions of any team in the league. I don't know of any player that would choose to have training camp in Houston, all other things being equal.

2) What does "one of the better owners in the league" mean to the players? Texans fans might like him for a variety of reasons, but I don't know that his presence would make the Texans more appealing to free agents. In fact, if the players suspect McNair protects Carr regardless of performance as many fans do then I doubt they respect that. I think the Texans may be perceived as rather cheap around the league too - more on that later.

3) Impressions of our front office are positive? That is certainly debatable for the first four years, and the new front office hasn't proven anything yet. Pre Rick Smith but post Kubiak they did pick Williams with the first pick this year. I'm sure that raised a few eyebrows with players around the league.

4) Doing things the right way in a corporate structure way or a football way? I think the team was built in such a corporate manner that it has sucked life out of some of the players. There are lots of players in the league that might hesitate to join a team that seems to cut players that speak their minds a little too much or don't march in corporate lockstep. The past staff and even this staff seem to have exhibited a certain pettiness with players. That gets discussed around the league when players get together.

5) Our play has certainly been poor, and the pathetic play within the six win season tells a bad story. I also wonder what will happen when some of our good players start experiencing free agency.

In the end the money is usually the biggest factor when a free agent chooses a team. The Texans do have the tax advantage for the players who understand that, but in other way the Texans have the reputation for being a team that nickel and dimes the players. As I understand it the previous regime made most of the players share hotel rooms during camp and travel; the new regime has reversed that for most players though. I'm also pretty sure the Texans have a fairly low per diem when the team is on the road when compared to other teams. Something like 60% of what some other teams offer. Is that money insignificant compared to what the players make? Sure - but it does its part in defining the franchise. The extra $30 per player per day would be a good investment by the team in my opinion.

Most fans here love the Texans football organization; I'm not sure the players on other teams see it the same way. The perspectives are far too different to make that assumption.

aj.
01-05-2007, 06:47 AM
Do you have concerns about the DC position?
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick
If I were an elite FA, I would not want to come play for Richard Smith.

I have concerns about almost everything associated with the organization. But I'm obviously not at the point where you are on the defensive coordinator (especially for the reasons you gave).

I'm looking more at what I see on the field as opposed to trying to read between the lines on what players are or aren't saying about the guy. The results were far from great this season but the defense improved and held together for the most part after their disastrous start. I saw players playing with a lot of intensity in Week 16 and 17 and that means more to me than trying to interpret the meaning of the word "nut" in an article or wringing my hands about the fact that players aren't singing his praises publicly (didn't see a lot of glowing quotes from players during the season about Calhoun either).

I'm not in the meeting rooms and don't know any of the defensive players on a trusting personal level, so I don't really know how they feel about the guy. I have seen Smith operate at practice with the Texans and Oilers and that's all I know - besides the end result on the field and the Kalu quotes.

Like I've said many times before, Smith was a bit of a goofball under Glanville with the 'hit the beach' stuff - but he also had some of the most devastatingly effective special teams groups in the league. Believe it or not, he appears to have toned it down since then, but he still brings an attitude to this defense that I think was desperately needed.

wolfscar
01-05-2007, 08:07 AM
Both teams have, IMO, average RBs in Thomas Jones/Cedric Benson and then Jamaal Lewis with the Ravens. Not exactly the most dynamic runners in the NFL right now...

I wouldn't call the Bears' runners average - Thomas Jones is, IMHO, possibly the most underrated RB in the NFL. The last two seasons he's been slated to be replaced by Benson at the start of the season and both times has made it impossible for the coach to drop him. He can cut, he can catch, has a good burst and runs smart.

...Frankly, I'd be happy with ANYBODY at QB, and ANYBODY at RB if it meant that we focused our draft and free agency on building one of the best defenses in the NFL.

Ryans and Williams are both a great start. Perhaps we could build off that success and continue to solidify our defense?...

...Kubiak strikes me as the kind of guy that will tolerate Carr-Lundy-Dayne-Taylor for at least one more year. He'll offer compeitition for those positions during camp...

I agree completely with this - I don't see him quitting on Carr, although he HAS TO have a little more faith in the guy's arm. And I don't see us drafting a RB given Kubiak's background. Particularly given that DD is starting to make noises like he's coming back next season at something like 100%.

...I'll go on record right now and say that we'll draft defense with our first round pick.

I hope so - and if there's any way to do it I'd love to see us trade some dead weight (Travis Johnson, for example), trade down the rankings in the first round and draft twice late in round 1. Pick up Landry and Pozluszny. That's dependent on us picking up someone like Asante Samuel in FA though. I reckon CB, FS and OLB are our biggest 3 holes (along with our O-Line). We fill those slots and pick up a stud OLB in FA (there should be a few available yet when the dust settles) and we have a defense to be seriously reckoned with.

Second Honeymoon
01-05-2007, 08:25 AM
daunte is from south carolina and mario is from n.c. state. not exactly big nfl programs. unless your ready to call mario a bust then we are 1 and 1 on the big schools and 2 and 2 on the smaller programs.

randy moss and marshall faulk. jerry rice was out of mississippi valley. the list could go on forever.

please refrain from trying to defend Casserley's track record. Daunte played in the SEC which is the #1 source of NFL players in the world. Is South Carolina the cream of the crop in the SEC? No. But Holtz and Spurrier have done a good job recruiting top players and developing them against competition. Please DO NOT compare SEC schools to 2nd and 3rd tier conference schools like Fresno State and Western Michigan. It is an insult to the SEC in general.

Mario played at a school, NC State, that produces top-tier NFL talent out of the ACC at a pretty staggering rate. Although the ACC is traditionally a basketball conference, they have made many strides in the past decade to alter the perception and reality. Tory Holt, Phillip Rivers, Mario Williams, Manny Lawson, and Koren Robinson have all been drafted in the 1st Round to some measure of success.

My whole point that you failed to disprove is that you don't draft players from small schools in the 1st Round. Has it worked before? yes and Rice and Faulk are and were good examples, but Casserley always felt he had to reach and get the project or unknown star. For every success story there are thousands of failures. You draft the kids from the non traditional conferences in the 3rd round or later. Everyone knows that....it's just sad that Casserley tried to disprove it. But like you he failed miserably in his attempt to do so.

As for our failures at picking guys from big schools like T Johnston at FSU. Well, everyone but Casserley knew that T.Johnston wasn't the best guy on the board.....and wow, everyone was right.

Carr 1st Round Pick - Failure
AJ 1st Round Pick - Success
Dunta 1st Round Pick - Success
TJ 1st Round Pick - Failure
Babin 1st Round Pick - Failure
Mario 1st Round Pick - Success (but still not worth #1 overall pick)

That means 0 for 2 from 2nd tier conferences in the 1st round.
That means 3 for 4 from 1st tier conferences in the 1st round.
do the math and stop pointing to players from 15 and 25 years ago in order to prove your point, it just makes your argument that much weaker.

I am not saying to only draft players from Miami, FSU, USC, UT, Michigan and OSU. What I am saying is to only draft players from REAL football conferences and not joke conferences like Big West, Big Sky, etc.

To include Moss from a small school conference, that is really sad. He was the #1 recruit out of high school and went to, yeah thats right FSU and Notre Dame. He couldn't keep out of trouble and was exiled to a 2nd tier conference MAC with the Marshall team. The only reason he was at Marshall was his attitude, not his skill level. But still, you found a few examples out of a 25 year history....keep it up. :sarcasm:

Second Honeymoon
01-05-2007, 08:31 AM
dont think you were talking about my opinion but ill give it. i am fine with our dc right now. i think he wanted to get pressure with our front 4 but he realized that wasnt going to happen early in the season and after that we started playing together and by the end of the year i think we were in the top half in the leage. thats pretty good improvement for 1 year imo.

as for as what we got to offer players we have more than just money and our tax benifits. we have a new state of the art facility. we have one of the better owners in the league. and even though we havent started winning yet most impessions on our front office and ownership are positive. ive read more than one article that said we were doing things the right way and we would be a solid franchise for a long time. we also have a solid fanbase and still sell out even after 5 losing seasons(not sure about the end of this year). houston is also a bigger city and most of the players seem to like it. many athletes that dont even play here call houston home.

the biggest negative has been our play and i think the last couple of wins along with a lot of close losses could convince players we are turning things around. now after this year if we still play poorly and then lose a guy like andre or d-rob. then i would start to be worried about us being one of those perineal losers.

if i am going to call you out for being wrong, i gotta prop you up for being right.

The Texans franchise has a lot going for it. Many financial reasons (reasonable housing, low taxes, high revenue team) and social reasons (good nightlife, loads of nice strip clubs, great restaurants, good mix of cultures). As for reasons on the football field, there arent many but once we get rid of Lil Davey and start winning some football games we may be surprised who decides to come here.

We need a 'Reggie White' type signing like the Packers had. That is what we are missing. Clements would be quite a catch but wouldn't be a RW type signing. Freeney would be nice. What could be sweeter than turning the former Colt against the playoff chokejob Peyton. ohman, that would be sweet revenge.

You are spot on that we are not the Detroit-like destination of the NFC. Geez, look at just a few years ago. Chicago was considered the Gulag of the NFL. Now they are riding high. In the NFL, unlike NBA and MLB, you can go from outhouse to penthouse pretty fast.

SESupergenius
01-05-2007, 09:38 AM
please refrain from trying to defend Casserley's track record. Daunte played in the SEC which is the #1 source of NFL players in the world. Is South Carolina the cream of the crop in the SEC? No. But Holtz and Spurrier have done a good job recruiting top players and developing them against competition. Please DO NOT compare SEC schools to 2nd and 3rd tier conference schools like Fresno State and Western Michigan. It is an insult to the SEC in general.

Mario played at a school, NC State, that produces top-tier NFL talent out of the ACC at a pretty staggering rate. Although the ACC is traditionally a basketball conference, they have made many strides in the past decade to alter the perception and reality. Tory Holt, Phillip Rivers, Mario Williams, Manny Lawson, and Koren Robinson have all been drafted in the 1st Round to some measure of success.

My whole point that you failed to disprove is that you don't draft players from small schools in the 1st Round. Has it worked before? yes and Rice and Faulk are and were good examples, but Casserley always felt he had to reach and get the project or unknown star. For every success story there are thousands of failures. You draft the kids from the non traditional conferences in the 3rd round or later. Everyone knows that....it's just sad that Casserley tried to disprove it. But like you he failed miserably in his attempt to do so.

As for our failures at picking guys from big schools like T Johnston at FSU. Well, everyone but Casserley knew that T.Johnston wasn't the best guy on the board.....and wow, everyone was right.

Carr 1st Round Pick - Failure
AJ 1st Round Pick - Success
Dunta 1st Round Pick - Success
TJ 1st Round Pick - Failure
Babin 1st Round Pick - Failure
Mario 1st Round Pick - Success (but still not worth #1 overall pick)

That means 0 for 2 from 2nd tier conferences in the 1st round.
That means 3 for 4 from 1st tier conferences in the 1st round.
do the math and stop pointing to players from 15 and 25 years ago in order to prove your point, it just makes your argument that much weaker.

I am not saying to only draft players from Miami, FSU, USC, UT, Michigan and OSU. What I am saying is to only draft players from REAL football conferences and not joke conferences like Big West, Big Sky, etc.

To include Moss from a small school conference, that is really sad. He was the #1 recruit out of high school and went to, yeah thats right FSU and Notre Dame. He couldn't keep out of trouble and was exiled to a 2nd tier conference MAC with the Marshall team. The only reason he was at Marshall was his attitude, not his skill level. But still, you found a few examples out of a 25 year history....keep it up. :sarcasm:

Good post!

GP
01-06-2007, 12:57 AM
Wolfscar had a scenario that I doubt would be possible (us taking Posluzny and Landry)...I doubt those two guys will last past the first round.

TJ is still on the bubble, in my book. I think we could draft a Branch (or his buddy next to him, Terrence Something, I think he's #62...he was wreaking havoc vs. USC in the first half) or grab some other top DL and do fine with MAYBE having TJ as depth, if he'd be Ok with that which I doubt he would.

Landry looks like he just knows that he owns his area of turf, so I'd be happy with him. A smart, aggressive FS helps those CBs so much.

I said that I'd go on record as saying that we'd draft defense with our first pick. BUT, as I watched Calvin Johnson...I could see us going for a Johnson and Johnson combination at WR if it fell that way on draft day. Kubiak might be willing to risk it for a guy like that after he spent the first pick on defense in last year's draft.

The idea of Posluzny alongside Demeco is insane: They'd BOTH be tackling the ball carrier at the same time. Not enough food to go around.

My best projection, though, is that we trade out or stay and pick up one of the beefy DLs. And if we trade out, I see us dropping down only slightly to take Landry or maybe a best available at CB. I don't know that Branch or Gaines will be there at our spot.

Some say Kubiak is an offense-minded coach, and that we'd go offense to score more points. I think, actually, that he's high on himself so much that he thinks he can still win games with points that HE puts on the board by the virtue of his playcalling and coaching.......I think he's invested himself into thinking that he needs a better defense to help his offense out no matter what he puts out there on offense.

thunderkyss
01-06-2007, 11:43 AM
Wolfscar had a scenario that I doubt would be possible (us taking Posluzny and Landry)...I doubt those two guys will last past the first round.


Of those two, I'd take Posluzny.... I know I'm in the minority, but I don't see Landry grading that high.

utahmark
01-06-2007, 01:18 PM
double post

utahmark
01-06-2007, 01:43 PM
please refrain from trying to defend Casserley's track record. Daunte played in the SEC which is the #1 source of NFL players in the world. Is South Carolina the cream of the crop in the SEC? No. But Holtz and Spurrier have done a good job recruiting top players and developing them against competition. Please DO NOT compare SEC schools to 2nd and 3rd tier conference schools like Fresno State and Western Michigan. It is an insult to the SEC in general.

Mario played at a school, NC State, that produces top-tier NFL talent out of the ACC at a pretty staggering rate. Although the ACC is traditionally a basketball conference, they have made many strides in the past decade to alter the perception and reality. Tory Holt, Phillip Rivers, Mario Williams, Manny Lawson, and Koren Robinson have all been drafted in the 1st Round to some measure of success.

My whole point that you failed to disprove is that you don't draft players from small schools in the 1st Round. Has it worked before? yes and Rice and Faulk are and were good examples, but Casserley always felt he had to reach and get the project or unknown star. For every success story there are thousands of failures. You draft the kids from the non traditional conferences in the 3rd round or later. Everyone knows that....it's just sad that Casserley tried to disprove it. But like you he failed miserably in his attempt to do so.

As for our failures at picking guys from big schools like T Johnston at FSU. Well, everyone but Casserley knew that T.Johnston wasn't the best guy on the board.....and wow, everyone was right.

Carr 1st Round Pick - Failure
AJ 1st Round Pick - Success
Dunta 1st Round Pick - Success
TJ 1st Round Pick - Failure
Babin 1st Round Pick - Failure
Mario 1st Round Pick - Success (but still not worth #1 overall pick)

That means 0 for 2 from 2nd tier conferences in the 1st round.
That means 3 for 4 from 1st tier conferences in the 1st round.
do the math and stop pointing to players from 15 and 25 years ago in order to prove your point, it just makes your argument that much weaker.

I am not saying to only draft players from Miami, FSU, USC, UT, Michigan and OSU. What I am saying is to only draft players from REAL football conferences and not joke conferences like Big West, Big Sky, etc.

To include Moss from a small school conference, that is really sad. He was the #1 recruit out of high school and went to, yeah thats right FSU and Notre Dame. He couldn't keep out of trouble and was exiled to a 2nd tier conference MAC with the Marshall team. The only reason he was at Marshall was his attitude, not his skill level. But still, you found a few examples out of a 25 year history....keep it up. :sarcasm:

i would never try to defend charlie. i just think you were wrong stating you cant find talent from small schools.

its pretty easy to win an argument when you change the requirements. you never said anything about conferences you said established football schools. how am i supposed to know you ment established football conferences.

there are other guys i could list alex smith, blaine bishop, jason taylor, dwight smith, robert mathis, eddie robbinson, donald driver, steve mcnair, corey hall, dexter coackley, matt stevens(which kinda helps your point), daunta wesley, greg wesley, corey williams, christian okoya. besides christian and alex these are all players that either played on our beloved oilers or players that are still in the league. some pretty good players considering these are only small conferences from small schools that start with the letter A didnt have enough space to go through the whole alphabet. not all off these are first rounders but some off the ones that arent should have been. im sure you will change the rules and tell me why these players dont count in your next post. or maybe you might just admit you were wrong.

Second Honeymoon
01-06-2007, 01:53 PM
i would never try to defend charlie. i just think you were wrong stating you cant find talent from small schools.

its pretty easy to win an argument when you change the requirements. you never said anything about conferences you said established football schools. how am i supposed to know you ment established football conferences.

there are other guys i could list alex smith, blaine bishop, jason taylor, dwight smith, robert mathis, eddie robbinson, donald driver, steve mcnair, corey hall, dexter coackley, matt stevens(which kinda helps your point), daunta wesley, greg wesley, corey williams, christian okoya. besides christian and alex these are all players that either played on our beloved oilers or players that are still in the league. some pretty good players considering these are only small conferences from small schools that start with the letter A didnt have enough space to go through the whole alphabet. not all off these are first rounders but some off the ones that arent should have been. im sure you will change the rules and tell me why these players dont count in your next post. or maybe you might just admit you were wrong.

nc state and south carolina ARE established football schools from real football conferences not second rate jokes like WAC, Big Sky, Big West, etc. Both schools have a history of producing NFL talent.

merely listing out a bunch of players from small schools does not a point make. how many were drafted in the early 1st round? not that many, huh?

My point is not that you don't draft kids from small schools...my point is that you don't draft kids from small schools in the 1st Round. Are there exceptions? Sure, there always are. However, just look at the successful teams in the NFL. You will find them littered with players from Miami, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida State, USC, Notre Dame and not Western Michigan, Cincinatti, and most importantly Fresno State with a #1 overall pick.

If your not defending Casserley, then stop defending his horrible picks of bad players in the 1st round. Don't hate on me cause your boy Carr is an embarassment to the QB position. Deal with it and move on. And i NEVER said you can't find talent from small schools, I said you don't draft talent from small schools in the 1st Round 99 times out of 100.....geez, selective reading for the loss

old football fan
01-06-2007, 02:13 PM
The previous FO of the Texans screwed the team with all of the bad draft choices they made. I mean Babin????? Carr at the time was considered to be the best QB in the draft, but as we all know he has not been able improve enough to have a winning season. BPA in the draft, regardless of what school the player is from, should always be the teams pick. It is then up to the player to show the heart and determition to get better and play at a high level. There have been good and bad players from all of the colleges.

utahmark
01-06-2007, 02:19 PM
im not sure how many were drafted in the first round. look at the list here are the ones that any team would of been happy to have in the early first round alex smith, steve mcnair(who were both early first round picks. christian okoya, jason taylor(who most teams would of been happy with at #1 overall).

here are guys who would of lived up to later first round picks since your changing the rules again and now it has to be early first round picks(by the way jason babin was not an early first round pick). blaine bishop, robert mathis, donald driver, eddie robbinson, dexter coackley. remember these are mostly just guys from small schools that start with the letter a. so just multiply these names time 26 and you kinda get the idea.

and no all these guys were not drafted in the first round but a lot of gm's that stay away from small school players in the first round would of liked to had these guys instead of some of the guys they drafted.

utahmark
01-06-2007, 02:25 PM
If your not defending Casserley, then stop defending his horrible picks of bad players in the 1st round. Don't hate on me cause your boy Carr is an embarassment to the QB position. Deal with it and move on. And i NEVER said you can't find talent from small schools, I said you don't draft talent from small schools in the 1st Round 99 times out of 100.....geez, selective reading for the loss

if you will look at the end of my post i state that these are not all first rounders. who is doing the selective reading?

Second Honeymoon
01-06-2007, 02:27 PM
And i NEVER said you can't find talent from small schools, I said you don't draft talent from small schools in the 1st Round 99 times out of 100.....geez, selective reading for the loss

changing the rules? this isn't a game dude. It's merely pointing out the facts that you don't draft guys from small schools in the 1st round 99 times out of 100. Also all those guys werent in the 'A' section of schools. Last time I checked Utah and Grambling were spelled with a U and a G, but coming from someone who is defending Casserley's history of drafting from 2nd and 3rd tier conferences, I cant say I am surprised you are struggling with the roman alphabet.

Second Honeymoon
01-06-2007, 02:30 PM
if you will look at the end of my post i state that these are not all first rounders. who is doing the selective reading?

if they arent in the 1st Round then why are you using them to support your point. This isn't about players from small schools not being drafted. This is about players from small schools being drafted in the 1st round. Get over it, you lose. Carr sucks, Babin sucks, and Casserley sucks.

utahmark
01-06-2007, 02:38 PM
changing the rules? this isn't a game dude. It's merely pointing out the facts that you don't draft guys from small schools in the 1st round 99 times out of 100. Also all those guys werent in the 'A' section of schools. Last time I checked Utah and Grambling were spelled with a U and a G, but coming from someone who is defending Casserley's history of drafting from 2nd and 3rd tier conferences, I cant say I am surprised you are struggling with the roman alphabet.


ive already stated that alex wasnt from a school that started with an a. and none of the guys i listed were from grambling. keep making ******* up though. its fun.

utahmark
01-06-2007, 02:41 PM
if they arent in the 1st Round then why are you using them to support your point. This isn't about players from small schools not being drafted. This is about players from small schools being drafted in the 1st round. Get over it, you lose. Carr sucks, Babin sucks, and Casserley sucks.

i know casserley sucks and there is no way carr our babin should of been first rounders. im not defending them im defending all these poor small school players that your not giving any respect. your so hostile when your wrong!!!!

t_flare
01-06-2007, 02:54 PM
Seahawks and Steelers last year top 5 in Defense
Pats and Panters Top 5 in Defense
Pats always seem to have a top 5 defense in their title wins
Bucs had a top 5 defense when they won
and Ravens had a top 5 defense when they won

6 years in a row a top 3 defense in the NFL wins the Superbowl...

MarinerOne
01-06-2007, 03:27 PM
I like the improvement shown on the defensive side of the ball but we need to get a shutdown CB and another beast on the DL opposite Mario to go to the next level. The pass rush has got to improve.

I would look to get an upgrade on the O-Line from free agency and get a RB in the second round or lower in the draft unless by some miracle, AP is available (lol). I think that GK will give DC another year (on a short leash) with competition from SR. Bringing in another QB whom is marginal would IMO only take a step backwards. There are only a handfull of quality QB's in the entire league and many of them are shielded by superior OL's with 4 - 6 seconds to throw the ball downfield. I do question DC's ability to pick up blitzes and where they are coming from when it should be more obvious. With an improved OL, speed at RB and more diverse playcalling, I think we'll be much improved on the offensive side of the ball. The reciever routes need tweeking as well-------------it seems like the opposing secondary blankets AJ and EM with no real separation on most plays. Running the ball effectively is the key. I'd like to see CT get more of a chance next year----------he definitely has the speed lacking by any of the other backs on our current roster.

This is just IMO only---------no where close to being any kind of a football guru.

Second Honeymoon
01-06-2007, 03:40 PM
i know casserley sucks and there is no way carr our babin should of been first rounders. im not defending them im defending all these poor small school players that your not giving any respect. your so hostile when your wrong!!!!

glad to see you arent defending the Carr or Babin picks. as for 'poor small school players', this isn't a charity or mr. congeniality contest. this is the cutthroat business of the NFL Draft. it is a results based business. it has nothing to do with not hurting people's feelings or giving people respect. For crying out loud, worrying about players feelings and 'respect' is why the Texans have stuck with Carr for going on 5 years.

the bottom line is you get a better picture of a players ability to make the jump from the college ranks to the NFL by watching them play against better competition. Not only that but a player from a big program has dealt with more media and fan scrutiny than a small college player. This TENDS to help them have a smoother transition into the professional ranks. there are lots of late round success stories but very few success stories from 2nd tier conferences in the 1st Round.

There are exceptions to every rule, but normally in those cases its just obvious they would be good anywhere (Faulk and Tomlinson's college performances come to mind...you would watch them and just know they were going to have success in the NFL) SDSU is a 2nd tier football school that has actually managed to produce some good NFL players at times and notably 2 1st Round early picks in the early 90s.....but we all know how QB Dan McGwire ended up (and drafted out of SDSU I believe the year after Faulk in the 1st round i believe 8th overall by Seattle)

i just think we are both arguing over different topics. you are saying small college players can be good. i agree, but i am just saying you need to try and refrain from drafting small college players in the 1st Round due to a number of logical and rational factors.

as long as you arent defending the Carr and Babin picks, you have my respect :)

wolfscar
01-06-2007, 03:49 PM
I like the improvement shown on the defensive side of the ball but we need to get a shutdown CB and another beast on the DL opposite Mario to go to the next level. The pass rush has got to improve.

There's a lot of opinion leaning towards taking a DL high up in the draft, but I just don't see it. The Texans have a lot of holes to fill this offseason. On the Defense I'd say these rank CB, FS, OLB, OLB and then we could really use a monster DT who can take up two opposing O-Linemen and create favourable matchups for our DEs. Our pass rush is poor, but at the start of the season it was being touted as potentially one of the best in the league by some, and I think for pretty good reason. With a healthy, more experienced Mario Williams, Seth Payne (who was looking pretty fearsome before he got injured), Anthony Maddox (who I was really impressed with), Weaver and Babin / Peek switching in on the pass rush, I like the look of our D-Line. I'd love to have a Jamal Williams type shutting down the middle and cutting off the run, but we could do a LOT worse than Payne / Maddox with Weaver and Williams switching in from time to time.

There are some very good quality guys in this year's crop, but I suspect all the ones worth having will go very early. I'd like us to spend our picks on the more glaring gaps on our D (CB, FS, OLB, OLB) and our woeful O-Line.

MarinerOne
01-06-2007, 04:07 PM
There's a lot of opinion leaning towards taking a DL high up in the draft, but I just don't see it. The Texans have a lot of holes to fill this offseason. On the Defense I'd say these rank CB, FS, OLB, OLB and then we could really use a monster DT who can take up two opposing O-Linemen and create favourable matchups for our DEs. Our pass rush is poor, but at the start of the season it was being touted as potentially one of the best in the league by some, and I think for pretty good reason. With a healthy, more experienced Mario Williams, Seth Payne (who was looking pretty fearsome before he got injured), Anthony Maddox (who I was really impressed with), Weaver and Babin / Peek switching in on the pass rush, I like the look of our D-Line. I'd love to have a Jamal Williams type shutting down the middle and cutting off the run, but we could do a LOT worse than Payne / Maddox with Weaver and Williams switching in from time to time.

There are some very good quality guys in this year's crop, but I suspect all the ones worth having will go very early. I'd like us to spend our picks on the more glaring gaps on our D (CB, FS, OLB, OLB) and our woeful O-Line.

You bring up some very good points and I'd like to qualify them with player health restoration being a major factor. If all comeback 100% (and I hope they all do), then I agree. The thing that I'm hearing from the Texans staff that I like is not to get caught short by expecting key players to recover from injuries and missing other opportunities (i.e. DD/DW, etc.). I do think your right on your take on the defense however.

utahmark
01-06-2007, 04:55 PM
glad to see you arent defending the Carr or Babin picks. as for 'poor small school players', this isn't a charity or mr. congeniality contest. this is the cutthroat business of the NFL Draft. it is a results based business. it has nothing to do with not hurting people's feelings or giving people respect. For crying out loud, worrying about players feelings and 'respect' is why the Texans have stuck with Carr for going on 5 years.

the bottom line is you get a better picture of a players ability to make the jump from the college ranks to the NFL by watching them play against better competition. Not only that but a player from a big program has dealt with more media and fan scrutiny than a small college player. This TENDS to help them have a smoother transition into the professional ranks. there are lots of late round success stories but very few success stories from 2nd tier conferences in the 1st Round.

There are exceptions to every rule, but normally in those cases its just obvious they would be good anywhere (Faulk and Tomlinson's college performances come to mind...you would watch them and just know they were going to have success in the NFL) SDSU is a 2nd tier football school that has actually managed to produce some good NFL players at times and notably 2 1st Round early picks in the early 90s.....but we all know how QB Dan McGwire ended up (and drafted out of SDSU I believe the year after Faulk in the 1st round i believe 8th overall by Seattle)

i just think we are both arguing over different topics. you are saying small college players can be good. i agree, but i am just saying you need to try and refrain from drafting small college players in the 1st Round due to a number of logical and rational factors.

as long as you arent defending the Carr and Babin picks, you have my respect :)

i can agree with you there i was just bored and wanted to argue this morning.

i was really hoping the texans would stop looking at physical skills so much and start looking at production. and you cant very well look at just production from the players who havent played against the better competition. demarco is a guy who comes to mind thats probably why he lasted so long. he had the stats but hes not a physical freak just solid numbers but i guess the other teams forgot what kind of competition he was facing. you cant just forget about guys like demarcus ware who is a freak its just more of a guess how his game will translat to the nfl cause he hasnt played against nfl talent.

Second Honeymoon
01-06-2007, 05:12 PM
i can agree with you there i was just bored and wanted to argue this morning.

i was really hoping the texans would stop looking at physical skills so much and start looking at production. and you cant very well look at just production from the players who havent played against the better competition. demarco is a guy who comes to mind thats probably why he lasted so long. he had the stats but hes not a physical freak just solid numbers but i guess the other teams forgot what kind of competition he was facing. you cant just forget about guys like demarcus ware who is a freak its just more of a guess how his game will translat to the nfl cause he hasnt played against nfl talent.

I hear ya man. Ware was definitely not as much of a known commodity as Merriman was in that draft and it was drafted accordingly, and both players have shined. Further proof that 2nd tier conferences can put out top-tier NFL talent...I just hated how we made it a point to always reach on guys who we could have gotten later, some from big schools like Joppru and some from small schools like Babin.

I am just a bitterman about Casserley and what he did to our franchise's inception. To be honest, I haven't agreed with one draft pick they have made in the 1st Round...though all the picks havent disappointed me in the end.

2002 - Julius Peppers (wanted a veteran QB)
2003 - Terrell Suggs (AJ has been the easiest pill to swallow)
2004 - Tommie Harris (as a Longhorn, I had see that guy wreck UT since he got to Norman)
2005 - Derrick Johnson (nuff said)
2006 - Vince Young/Reggie Bush (wanted VY until they resigned Carr, reality set in and then I thought RB could help DC)

2007? - I am pining for Gaines Adams or Leon Hall to be available. Hall is more likely to be there at #8 and I would totally support that pick though I would prefer Adams.

obviously both LBs I wanted havent set the league on fire but they both have been effective starters.

Insideop
01-06-2007, 05:16 PM
There's a lot of opinion leaning towards taking a DL high up in the draft, but I just don't see it. The Texans have a lot of holes to fill this offseason. On the Defense I'd say these rank CB, FS, OLB, OLB and then we could really use a monster DT who can take up two opposing O-Linemen and create favourable matchups for our DEs. Our pass rush is poor, but at the start of the season it was being touted as potentially one of the best in the league by some, and I think for pretty good reason. With a healthy, more experienced Mario Williams, Seth Payne (who was looking pretty fearsome before he got injured), Anthony Maddox (who I was really impressed with), Weaver and Babin / Peek switching in on the pass rush, I like the look of our D-Line. I'd love to have a Jamal Williams type shutting down the middle and cutting off the run, but we could do a LOT worse than Payne / Maddox with Weaver and Williams switching in from time to time.

There are some very good quality guys in this year's crop, but I suspect all the ones worth having will go very early. I'd like us to spend our picks on the more glaring gaps on our D (CB, FS, OLB, OLB) and our woeful O-Line.

Wolfscar, I know some people are counting on Payne or TJ being back in the DL next year, but I doubt either one will be. Payne "blew out" his knee again and he is getting pretty old (10 yrs in NFL), so I doubt he will even be back. It took him a long time (1 to 2 years) to recover and be back at full strength the last time he messed up his knee.

I do agree with you on Maddox and think he will get a shot at starting next year. As for the other slot, I'm not sure yet what direction they will go, but listening to Kubes in one of his statements, he said they definately need to get more push from the front 4 and apply more pressure without having to blitz so much. This sounds like they will be going after someone in the draft or FA, I just don't know which at this point. JMHO!

old football fan
01-06-2007, 06:02 PM
Yes the old FO sucked!! But we must look forward to the future and I think with Kubiak and Smith we can see the light at the end of the freaking tunnel.

Second Honeymoon
01-06-2007, 06:04 PM
Yes the old FO sucked!! But we must look forward to the future and I think with Kubiak and Smith we can see the light at the end of the freaking tunnel.

I agree

wolfscar
01-06-2007, 06:37 PM
Wolfscar, I know some people are counting on Payne or TJ being back in the DL next year, but I doubt either one will be. Payne "blew out" his knee again and he is getting pretty old (10 yrs in NFL), so I doubt he will even be back. It took him a long time (1 to 2 years) to recover and be back at full strength the last time he messed up his knee.

This is true - he has been around quite a while and this is a tough one for him to come back from. I still question the decision to release Robaire Smith. He wasn't a great DE, but I think he could fit quite well into our new 4-3 front line at a DT.

There are one or two interesting names popping up in the potential FA market at DL this year. I think Cory Redding might be someone we could bring in relatively cheap to add some solidity to the position. And, of course, there's the distinct possiblity that Robaire will be up for grabs again.