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Vinny
01-03-2007, 11:15 AM
Imagine if we picked him and had both offensive and defensive ROY's.....
Young, who led Texas to the 2005 national championship and was the third overall pick in last April's draft, overwhelmed one of the strongest rookie classes in NFL history. He received 23 votes from a nationwide panel of 50 sports writers and broadcasters who cover the league.

That easily beat New Orleans wide receiver Marques Colston and Jacksonville running back Maurice Drew, who had nine apiece; San Diego tackle Marcus McNeill (6); and Saints running back Reggie Bush (3).

Running back Carnell "Cadillac" Williams of Tampa Bay won the award last year. Young is the third member of the Tennessee-Houston franchise to take top rookie honors: Earl Campbell in 1978 and Eddie George in 1996 did it for the Houston Oilers.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nfloffensiverookie&prov=ap&type=lgns

travfrancis
01-03-2007, 11:17 AM
Congrats to VY!

Since you mentioned it. If the Texans had drafted Vince #1 that might have been the best draft all time.

VY
Ryans
Spencer
Winston
Daniels
Lundy

that would have been crazy.

ATX
01-03-2007, 11:19 AM
Imagine if we picked him and had both offensive and defensive ROY's.....


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nfloffensiverookie&prov=ap&type=lgns

I see your point, but I don't think he would of did what he did as a Texan his rookie year.

Lucky
01-03-2007, 11:22 AM
I don't know why not...
For one, the Texans don't play out of the shotgun.

powerfuldragon
01-03-2007, 11:34 AM
The Texans don't win games either...so what's your point?

Hahahaha

Cheddar
01-03-2007, 11:34 AM
The Texans don't win games either...so what's your point? I'm sure the franchise that passed on Julius Peppers because he didn't fit the system is happy to pass on Young who didn't fit the system.....wanna know who did fit the Texans system? Jason Babin and David Carr.

Tennessee won 4 more games with Vince Young at QB and Houston improved by 4 wins too. Stop with the Vince nut-hugging already. Vince wasn't the reason Tennessee won all those games anymore than Carr being the reason we won four more.

It's a team game.

Nawzer
01-03-2007, 11:35 AM
Congrats to VY.

texasguy346
01-03-2007, 11:38 AM
Imagine what Jones-Drew could've done if he wasn't splitting time with Taylor. The Jags sure found themselves a gem late in the second round.

Colston started off the season well, but he was slowed by injury during the second half of the season. He's got a bright future if he continues to perform like he did early on.

Congrats to VY though he deserved it.

Trap_Star
01-03-2007, 11:44 AM
Congrats to VY...but he is who we thought he was, and we let him off the hook!!...

Cheddar
01-03-2007, 11:44 AM
I'm gonna give my opinion whether you like it or not...talk some football or get out of the forum.....all the little digs and personal attacks for the guys giving opinion ruins this place. Take your nut hugging comments to the other Texans forums....I'm so sick of that kind of talk here just because you don't like VY. I'll talk about VY all I want in the NFL forum.

But your digs about Houston not winning games is fine? All I did was speak the truth. The pregame shows and analysts were all over VY all season long despite his league worst completion percentage, despite his crusty QB rating and despite the fact that his defense and special teams carried him more than twice and then start talking about how Houston screwed up by not taking him? I don't see it. I doubt VY would have carried Houston to more than 4 more wins. Each team improved the same amount of games and Houston did so with 13 players, many of them starters, on the IR.

aj.
01-03-2007, 11:45 AM
The point is would Kubiak have brought in a few of the staple 'zone read' plays to integrate into the Texans offense like Chow did up there...

If the answer is yes, I think Vince could have had the same immediate impact here.

If the answer is no, and Kubiak forced Vince to work entirely in his offensive system, then he might not have had the same level of immediate impact here.

A lot of the credit goes to Chow, I think, in how he's worked with him ...

nunusguy
01-03-2007, 11:46 AM
That easily beat New Orleans wide receiver Marques Colston and Jacksonville running back Maurice Jones-Drew, who had nine apiece; San Diego tackle Marcus McNeill (6); and Saints running back Reggie Bush (3).
***************************
Bush is only the #2 rookie Offensive player on his own team, and the #2 rookie running back from his native state. Finished a distant #5 overall.
How will ESPN spin this, or is there hope we can get an object report on
this award and who finished where ?

Hervoyel
01-03-2007, 11:46 AM
I don't think that Gary Kubiak in his first season would have been brave/smart/stupid enough (pick one, I'm not sure which one properly fits) to let Vince Young be the player he is, go out on the field, and create the kind of situations that resulted in that win streak (or at least his part of it).

I wasn't a Vince fan but I think now that I know a little more about him and how he plays he could have done the same kind of thing here if he'd been allowed to.

It's not really important whether he would have done that here or not though. What's important is that we could have picked players capable of winning the offensive and defensive ROY awards if we'd taken advantage of the opportunity in front of our face.

Khari
01-03-2007, 11:48 AM
uh oh.....

texasguy346
01-03-2007, 11:48 AM
A lot of the credit goes to Chow, I think, in how he's worked with him ...

Great point. It will be interesting to see how VY progresses if Chow ends up as the head coach of the Cardinals. I recall hearing that Arizona had already contacted the Titans requesting permission to speak with him.

Houston_Fanatic
01-03-2007, 11:48 AM
Congratulations, VY - well-deserved.

ATX
01-03-2007, 11:49 AM
That easily beat New Orleans wide receiver Marques Colston and Jacksonville running back Maurice Jones-Drew, who had nine apiece; San Diego tackle Marcus McNeill (6); and Saints running back Reggie Bush (3).
***************************
Bush is only the #2 rookie Offensive player on his own team, and the #2 rookie running back from his native state. Finished a distant #5 overall.
How will ESPN spin this, or is there hope we can get an object report on
this award and who finished where ?

They'll say something about not enough balls to go around in New Orleans, like "of course he didn't win it because he had to share the ball with Deuce, Colston, Horn, etc. If he would have been on any other team, he would have won hands down".

tulexan
01-03-2007, 11:54 AM
They'll say something about not enough balls to go around in New Orleans, like "of course he didn't win it because he had to share the ball with Deuce, Colston, Horn, etc. If he would have been on any other team, he would have won hands down".

How about "because of Reggie Bush's amazing decoy abilities, Colston was able to finish 2nd in the Rookie of the Year award"

kastofsna
01-03-2007, 12:04 PM
it's simple, the titans wouldn't have won all those games without vince young. period.

but they also probably would've won that patriots game with a more comptent QB. :)

nunusguy
01-03-2007, 12:06 PM
I dunno, but if ESPN was consistant they'd say that The Associated Press
collectively was stupid not once, not twice, not 3 times, but 4 times before they got it right.

TheCD
01-03-2007, 12:12 PM
Imagine if we picked him and had both offensive and defensive ROY's.....


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nfloffensiverookie&prov=ap&type=lgns



He certainly played well this year...but he wouldn't have won it with us. We were going to start Carr hell or high water.

TexanFan881
01-03-2007, 12:30 PM
The only reason Vince Young won is because Coltson was out for a few games. If Colston never got hurt, he would have definately given Vince a run for his money. :twocents:

Double Barrel
01-03-2007, 12:30 PM
Congrats to VY. It is well-deserved, and he's going to be a force to be reckoned with for a long time.

shinerbock_girl
01-03-2007, 12:33 PM
Congrats to VY. It is well-deserved, and he's going to be a force to be reckoned with for a long time.

Unfortunately, we will be the ones reckoning with him....God help us!!!!!

TheOgre
01-03-2007, 12:35 PM
Good job VY.

Personally, I thought Maurice-Jones Drew deserved it instead though. It was a close call from my perspective.

Mr. White
01-03-2007, 12:42 PM
He made every other player on the team better. The team did a 180 after he came in. Well-deserved.

Trap_Star
01-03-2007, 12:48 PM
Unfortunately, we will be the ones reckoning with him....God help us!!!!!

He is...DeMeco Ryans = divine intervention...:shades:

Titan "Tack" Fan
01-03-2007, 12:51 PM
Tennessee won 4 more games with Vince Young at QB and Houston improved by 4 wins too. Stop with the Vince nut-hugging already. Vince wasn't the reason Tennessee won all those games anymore than Carr being the reason we won four more.

It's a team game.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

good joke....

DenverBorn
01-03-2007, 12:52 PM
I'm gonna give my opinion whether you like it or not...talk some football or get out of the forum.....all the little digs and personal attacks for the guys giving opinion ruins this place. Take your nut hugging comments to the other Texans forums....I'm so sick of that kind of talk here just because you don't like VY. I'll talk about VY all I want in the NFL forum.


Thank you. Very well said

JaxonVillain
01-03-2007, 01:04 PM
Personally, I thought Maurice-Jones Drew deserved it instead though. It was a close call from my perspective.

I agree. Jones-Drew broke the rookie record of the most consecutive rushing touchdowns (8) in a season. He also tallied the third most all-purpose yards (2,212) in NFL history, behind only Gale Sayers and Tim Brown. I would have thought voting would have been a little closer, at least.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/community/news/casselberry/orl-jaguarsnotes0107jan01,0,1610050.story

Congrats to VY.

SF49erFaithful
01-03-2007, 02:10 PM
What a joke.

VY has a lot of potential, but people hail him to be the sole reason why the Titans heated up. People seem to ignore other guys making plays on that team, for example, Pac Man Jones.

Right now Vince Young is a below average passer who can run and get all the credit for his team winning some games. At the moment I find him to be a poor mans Michael Vick. We'll see how much he progresses in terms on passing next season though.

Colston, Jones-Drew, and McNeil deserved it more in my opinion.

jerek
01-03-2007, 02:14 PM
Great point. It will be interesting to see how VY progresses if Chow ends up as the head coach of the Cardinals. I recall hearing that Arizona had already contacted the Titans requesting permission to speak with him.

I figured Chow for this position a year ago when the Cards drafted Leinart.

Congrats to VY for taking these steps to prove his doubters -- myself one of them -- wrong. I'm not ready to crown him the next big thing, but I think he deserves the OROY honor.

BJShan
01-03-2007, 02:28 PM
...the fact that his defense and special teams carried him more than twice...

I've seen this written before and I think it's hilarious. Yes... our number 32 ranked defense carried us to victories. :pigfly:

With the exception of the second Jags game our defense played HORRIBLE all year long. They made a few key plays in some games near the end that gave us a chance but we won games in SPITE of our defense, not because it. That Jags game was the only game all season that the defense won it for us.

Seeing as how your a Texans fan I wouldn't expect you to have seen more than two Titans games all year long so you probably have no idea how our games actually played out.

LORENZOF33
01-03-2007, 02:37 PM
VY does it once again!

Titan "Tack" Fan
01-03-2007, 02:39 PM
What a joke.

VY has a lot of potential, but people hail him to be the sole reason why the Titans heated up. People seem to ignore other guys making plays on that team, for example, Pac Man Jones.

Right now Vince Young is a pretty bad passer who can run and get all the credit for his team winning some games. At the moment I find him to be a poor mans Michael Vick. We'll see how much he progresses in terms on passing next season though.

Colston, Jones-Drew, and McNeil deserved it more in my opinion.

This coming from the 49ers fan who probably didn't even watch Vince play. And since why does it matter what his passing stats are? Isn't scrambling just as good? Why does it matter how you get the yards?

...Good luck with Alex Smith. Vince Young is miles ahead of him. You're just jealous.

The Dream
01-03-2007, 03:28 PM
congrats to VY....next year he might be a MVP candidate

Dr. Toro
01-03-2007, 03:28 PM
it's simple, the titans wouldn't have won all those games without vince young. period.

but they also probably would've won that patriots game with a more comptent QB. :)

I'd say that's the most accurate VY statement I've heard from you to date. He wasn't very good on Sunday. The weather really didn't help and the middle of the field was so muddy he really couldn't move out of the pocket. I would say your assessment that he's not very good when he's penned in is about right. I don't expect it to stay that way for long.

I think Young will improve as a pocket passer... accuracy wasn't an issue at Texas, but he wasn't making some of the tougher throws he's making now. With offseason work on timing, chemistry, and mechanics, more in-game comfort/awareness, and an upgrade in receiving talent, I expect him to post a completion percentage in the range of 58-62% next year. I'll be held to that. Dude's got a chip on his shoulder, he'll continue to improve as long as he remains coachable.

Hookem Horns
01-03-2007, 03:31 PM
What a joke.

At the moment I find him to be a poor mans Michael Vick.

LOL, now THAT is a good joke. Michael Vick is a poor man's Vince Young.

Wolf
01-03-2007, 03:34 PM
I've seen this written before and I think it's hilarious. Yes... our number 32 ranked defense carried us to victories. :pigfly:

With the exception of the second Jags game our defense played HORRIBLE all year long. They made a few key plays in some games near the end that gave us a chance but we won games in SPITE of our defense, not because it. That Jags game was the only game all season that the defense won it for us.

Seeing as how your a Texans fan I wouldn't expect you to have seen more than two Titans games all year long so you probably have no idea how our games actually played out.

believe me central texas probably see's more Titan games than the Texans.. and I think the Saints were on every week where I live

Wolf
01-03-2007, 03:35 PM
Drew deserved it more IMO .. great season by him eventhough he is a jag ... CBS was calling him a little Earl Campbell. how's that comparison..

MrMeToo
01-03-2007, 03:59 PM
Congrats to Vince.He deserved it.:yahoo:

SF49erFaithful
01-03-2007, 05:15 PM
This coming from the 49ers fan who probably didn't even watch Vince play. And since why does it matter what his passing stats are? Isn't scrambling just as good? Why does it matter how you get the yards?
So since Vick ran for 1,000 yards he is as good as Tom Brady............? It doesn't matter how you get the yards, right?

...Good luck with Alex Smith. Vince Young is miles ahead of him. You're just jealous.

Ummmm, ok? Alex Smith was in his first year in our system this year just like VY with a different supporting cast than his rookie year, and he is younger that Vince. So I am not sure who is ahead of who.

The Dream
01-03-2007, 05:18 PM
Ummmm, ok? Alex Smith was in his first year in our system this year just like VY with a different supporting cast than his rookie year, and he is younger that Vince. So I am not sure who is ahead of who.


VY > Alex Smith...and you know this maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!

SF49erFaithful
01-03-2007, 05:20 PM
LOL, now THAT is a good joke. Michael Vick is a poor man's Vince Young.

Why? Michael Vick is currently a better passer and runner.

I am not saying Vince Young is the next Michael Vick, because I really do not know how much he improves his passing. When I made the comparison I was talking about now.

mexican_texan
01-03-2007, 05:23 PM
We could have had both ROYs if Carr remembered Daniels in the second half of the season.

The Dream
01-03-2007, 05:23 PM
VY does some things better than Vick....him and Vick aren't really the same type of QB's.

SF49erFaithful
01-03-2007, 05:24 PM
VY > Alex Smith...and you know this maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!

I wasn't saying Alex Smith is better, just that making the point that he was playing in a system that was new to him also.

Time should tell what QB's come out on top of the 2005 and 2006 NFL Draft Classes. But right now it is too soon. :)

The Dream
01-03-2007, 05:24 PM
We could have had both ROYs if Carr had not been signed back and we drafted Vince


I think that's what you meant to say.

mexican_texan
01-03-2007, 05:36 PM
I think that's what you meant to say.
Nope. Daniels was a great red zone threat, but then Carr regressed and stopped throwing to the TE. We would have easily beaten the Titans if Carr hadn't regressed so much.

hot pickle
01-03-2007, 05:40 PM
good job vince

i like that both rookies of the year were southern boys

keep doin your thing

The Dream
01-03-2007, 05:45 PM
Yes that is exactly what I meant to say. Daniels was a great red zone threat, but Vince Young is GOD. We would have easily beaten the Titans if Carr hadn't been signed in the offseason, and we had VY.

I agree 100%

yourfavoritetexan42
01-03-2007, 05:54 PM
blah bs award... should have been colston, or even hester. I am so tired of this "VY is the reason they win, he just knows how to win" yeah... that time his defense scored all those touchdowns...and all those interceptions he threw...and those fumbles he had... all winning moves... yes he did torch us in overtime, and I do think he will be a good player in this league for years to come, but I think there were more deserving players. As a pure quarterback after watching leinart I think Leinart had a better season than young... but young has "it"...this "it" crap. Hey everyone let me tell you, I dominate in pickup basketball, I never lose... Texans should sign me, I have "it". Give me a break...

mexican_texan
01-03-2007, 05:58 PM
I agree 100%
Titans' OL and running game are not the same as the Texans'.

tulexan
01-03-2007, 06:03 PM
blah bs award... should have been colston, or even hester. I am so tired of this "VY is the reason they win, he just knows how to win" yeah... that time his defense scored all those touchdowns...and all those interceptions he threw...and those fumbles he had... all winning moves... yes he did torch us in overtime, and I do think he will be a good player in this league for years to come, but I think there were more deserving players. As a pure quarterback after watching leinart I think Leinart had a better season than young... but young has "it"...this "it" crap. Hey everyone let me tell you, I dominate in pickup basketball, I never lose... Texans should sign me, I have "it". Give me a break...

Don't forget a 60yd field goal that Vince did not kick.

Bongo59
01-03-2007, 06:17 PM
Drew deserved it more IMO .. great season by him eventhough he is a jag ... CBS was calling him a little Earl Campbell. how's that comparison..try this one...............MJD took a 12-4 team to an 8-8 record with all his accomplishments............VY took a 4 win team who started 0-5 to 8-8.................with the worst D in the league...............THAT IS WHY HE WON IN LANDSLIDE FASHION

and for the braindead folks putting VY in Vicks class............read Rick Gosselin column today..............he is the most respected NFL writer in this country.............

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/nwsltr/sports/fromthe50/stories/010306dnspogosselin.6f005d6.html



Remember the Titans in 2007


07:24 PM CST on Tuesday, January 2, 2007


If you like statistics, you aren't going to like the Tennessee Titans.

They finished dead last in the NFL in defense this season, allowing an AFC-high 400 points. They also finished 27th in offense with a rookie quarterback who wound up as the 30th most efficient passer in the NFL.

But I'm more excited about the future of the Titans right now than any other team in the NFL.

Start with the fact a young, franchise quarterback is in place. His numbers aren't pretty – Vince Young threw more interceptions (13) than touchdowns this season (12) and had a couple of real flat tires, passing for fewer than 100 yards in three of his 13 starts.

But Young did what he does best – what he did so well at Texas. He wins. Young engineered four fourth-quarter victories and another in overtime on the way to an 8-5 record as a starter. He beat playoff teams Philadelphia, the Giants and Indianapolis on successive weekends during one late-season stretch.

In my draft preparations last spring, I thought Young would take at least year to figure out the NFL game. I was wrong. His intangibles were strong enough to overcome any technical deficiencies he encountered at the quarterback position.

Most NFL quarterbacks must learn how to play the position before they can win games. Young proved he could win while learning. He's going to be special.

Having the quarterback in place is 75 percent of playoff contention. The other 25 percent is just as bright for Tennessee.

The Titans entered 2006 in a rebuilding mode. They fielded the youngest roster in the AFC and the fifth-youngest starting lineup in the NFL on opening day. The Titans finished the season starting recent 10 draft picks (from 2004 on) and finished 8-8.


AP
Vince Young was 8-5 as a starter in his rookie season. Whatever the Titans need this off-season to take the next step as a playoff contender, they are in a position to get. The NFL roster size is 53 players. The Titans already have 60 players under contract for 2007 – and they are still $41 million under the projected salary cap of $106 million.

Not only that, the Titans have 10 draft picks this April – an extra fourth-, sixth- and seventh-rounder. And this is a team that likes to develop its own players. Fifteen of Tennessee's starters in the finale against New England were homegrown.

That's why I love the Titans in 2007 and beyond. If the AFC South champion Indianapolis Colts look over their shoulder, they will see the Titans bearing down on them in a full sprint. That gap will continue to close this off-season.

kbourda
01-03-2007, 06:59 PM
The Texans don't win games either...so what's your point?

LMBAO! Brilliant.

bigcarlos
01-03-2007, 06:59 PM
Congrats to Vince:superman:

aj.
01-03-2007, 07:01 PM
should have been colston, ...


Marshall Faulk agrees with you. He said Vince is a very good player but "all his highlights are of him running."

The panel (Shefter, Woodson, and Faulk) unanimously agreed that DeMeco was the right guy for DROY.

Wolf
01-03-2007, 07:06 PM
try this one...............MJD took a 12-4 team to an 8-8 record with all his accomplishments............VY took a 4 win team who started 0-5 to 8-8.................with the worst D in the league...............THAT IS WHY HE WON IN LANDSLIDE FASHION


well heck with your philosophy colston or Bush should have gotten it.. heck those two got N.O. a bye in the playoffs after picking 2nd in the league...

MJD had more combined yards than anyone else in the history of the league except 2 people from what I read and I will have to look up those two because I can't remember off of the top of my head..

Anyway very good rookie class this year, it is good for the NFL

Tulip
01-03-2007, 07:14 PM
Imagine if we picked him and had both offensive and defensive ROY's.....

I've been bemoaning that lost opportunity all day. Actually longer than that - I guess we've known for a couple of weeks now that they would both win rookie of the year honors.

I'm happy for Vince. I know it means a lot to him after all of those nasty things were said about him prior to (and after) the draft. All he does is prove the doubters wrong - time and time again.

Silver Oak
01-03-2007, 07:22 PM
I look forward to the Texans playing VY twice a year! That may be the only way all of this nonsense gets laid to rest.

Just think, we have to wait four years to beat on the Cowboys. The Budsters will play us twice a year.

I love it!

Go Texans! :logo:

BattleRedToro
01-03-2007, 07:40 PM
To the people that say the Texans could have drafted both Vince Young and DeMeco Ryans, you can't actually be certain of that, because from the point in a draft where a pick is changed the entire draft that follows is different. It is possible that DeMeco Ryans would have still been available when the Texans picked again but noone can be certain that he might not have already been picked by another team before the Texans Second Round pick came up. It is impossible to predict with absolute certainty how changing a pick will affect the order in which the players are taken. For example, who would the Titans have picked with their pick assuming that New Orleans would have still picked Reggie Bush? If you say Matt Leinart or Jay Cutler then that changes who Arizona and/or Denver would pick and so on and so on like dominoes falling to the point that soon the two draft boards would diverge so much that they would no longer even look similar.

cadahnic
01-03-2007, 09:42 PM
well heck with your philosophy colston or Bush should have gotten it.. heck those two got N.O. a bye in the playoffs after picking 2nd in the league...

MJD had more combined yards than anyone else in the history of the league except 2 people from what I read and I will have to look up those two because I can't remember off of the top of my head..

Anyway very good rookie class this year, it is good for the NFL

I think Maurice Jones-Drew had the 3rd most all-purpose yards ever for a rookie. I've seen it stated as you posted a couple times and that is a little misleading as that is only among rookies, not all players ever. Still he had a very impressive season and I think he should have been offensive rookie of the year. He had 1377 yards from scrimmage (941 rushing and 436 receiving), 15 TDs from scrimmage, plus one TD off a kick return, tying him for 3rd in the league in total TDs with 16. He also had 860 kickoff return yards (at 27.7 per return, ranking 3rd in the league) and averaged 5.7 yards per carry (2nd in the league behind only Michael Vick). Vince Young had a pretty good season (not very good statistically, but he did better than I anticipated and did help his team win a lot of games at the end of the year) but MJD deserved rookie of the year.

aj.
01-04-2007, 06:08 AM
Since when is getting less than half of the votes (23 of 50) a landslide?

On the other hand, DeMeco took 36 of the 50 votes on his side.

BattleRedToro
01-04-2007, 06:50 AM
Since when is getting less than half of the votes (23 of 50) a landslide?

On the other hand, DeMeco took 36 of the 50 votes on his side.

When the NFL marketing gurus are trying to create a star, that is when. I've watched them try to force feed us this garbage all season long in disgust. Vince had an average season performance-wise and was carried by his teammates, most notably the defense, special teams, and running backs, somewhat reminiscent of his college career as well, but when the NFL marketing gurus are determined to create a new star that they can use to move merchandise then all he needed to do was provide them with a few flashy highlights that they can use to inflate his image.

Maurice Jones-Drew was far more deserving. I didn't know much about him before this year, but his consistent play was very impressive.

Tayton
01-04-2007, 07:50 AM
Since when is getting less than half of the votes (23 of 50) a landslide?

On the other hand, DeMeco took 36 of the 50 votes on his side.

Bingo! I've been wondering the same. Personal opinion is that MJD should have won it. Vince has got alot of press but the following stats jump out at me, more INT than TD, more turnovers than Carr, and the lowest rated starting QB in the league. I know alot of people love him but my truth is he is a running QB and was 1 dimensional. When teams figure that out we'll see how he does in the long haul. (But I've been wrong in the past.)

TNTitan
01-04-2007, 07:52 AM
Since when is getting less than half of the votes (23 of 50) a landslide?

On the other hand, DeMeco took 36 of the 50 votes on his side.

considering this offensive draft class, getting more than double your next competitor I would call it an easy V

coachdent
01-04-2007, 09:11 AM
Congrats to VY.

But my vote goes to Jones Drew. He did things as a rookie running back that are unheard of. Shoulda gotten more touches early on, but then so should have Vince.

Coach of the Year goes to Fisher for managing Young through his growing pains extremely effectively. They did an amazing job making sure that VY didn't lose them games, choosing to pound the football and let their defense win games where Vince was struggling.

reilli
01-04-2007, 12:04 PM
Since when is getting less than half of the votes (23 of 50) a landslide?


I guess because the two tied for second place got 9 votes each compared to his 23.

real
01-04-2007, 12:10 PM
The Texans don't win games either...so what's your point? I'm sure the franchise that passed on Julius Peppers because he didn't fit the system is happy to pass on Young who didn't fit the system.....wanna know who did fit the Texans system? Jason Babin and David Carr.

Best post I've read in a while...

Napa Auto Parts
01-04-2007, 09:48 PM
Tennessee won 4 more games with Vince Young at QB and Houston improved by 4 wins too. Stop with the Vince nut-hugging already. Vince wasn't the reason Tennessee won all those games anymore than Carr being the reason we won four more.

It's a team game.


I think Kerry Collins might have a different opinion.:stirpot:

SamuraiSword
01-05-2007, 03:18 AM
Tennessee won 4 more games with Vince Young at QB and Houston improved by 4 wins too. Stop with the Vince nut-hugging already. Vince wasn't the reason Tennessee won all those games anymore than Carr being the reason we won four more.

It's a team game.

Vince is the man and did a hell of a job doing what he did in Tennesee. I watched when he played for the Longhorns and he knows how to win. Titans were just as worse than us that is for sure. If I remember correctly they had five losses and no wins. I say that is an accomplishment on his part.

kastofsna
01-05-2007, 09:15 AM
I watched when he played for the Longhorns and he knows how to win.
just not with the playoffs on the line.

jerek
01-05-2007, 09:35 AM
Yeah, too bad Young isn't undefeated like every other NFL QB is. This coming from the self proclaimed draft expert saying that Young was sliding in the draft and would be a three year project.....at least you are consistant. I could pull some of your old posts up and have a good laugh.

I can't for the life of me understand why there are so few rational opinions about Carr or Vince. Vince either blows and does nothing to help the Titans win, or his brilliant inspirational presence is the only reason they can even tie their shoes in the morning. The hyperbole sickens me, but I have to pace myself, I know I'll be hearing it for the next ten years or so.

Can't Vince be an exciting player who was still one of the very worst passer rating starting QBs this year? A rapidly improving prospect? A dangerous runner with a questionable arm who nevertheless has a habit of making clutch plays? Nooo. He has to be deity or dirt. Yeesh.

real
01-05-2007, 09:39 AM
Can't Vince be an exciting player who was still one of the very worst passer rating starting QBs this year? A rapidly improving prospect? A dangerous runner with a questionable arm who nevertheless has a habit of making clutch plays? Nooo. He has to be deity or dirt. Yeesh.


You can do that for any player...

Watch:

Peyton Manning has great footwork and pocket presence...pretty strong arm, and great accuracy...He understands the game...so much so, often he is able to call his own plays...He's not very mobile, and at times reacts poorly to heavy pressure....Peyton has performed well the past couple of seasons, but fails to elevate his game to another level in the play-offs when it matters...

jerek
01-05-2007, 09:45 AM
You can do that for any player...

Watch:

Peyton Manning has great footwork pocket presence...pretty strong arm, and great accuracy...He understands the game...so much so often he is able to call his own plays...He's not very mobile, and at times reacts poorly to heavy pressure....Peyton has performed well the past couple of seasons, but fails to elevate his game to another level in the play-offs when it matters...

Actually I'd say Peyton Manning does all that any quarterback can, though he does look tighter in the playoffs. He's had a couple of lemon playoff games but more often than not it's been the Colts paper-thin D that doesn't step up to the challenge, and I think that will end up being the case this year. Manning does look bad at times when successfully pressured but I don't know of any quarterback, past or present, who doesn't.

Again VY had a good year and it's scary that he played as well as he did at times being only a rookie. His "intangibles" did translate well to the NFL, but at the end of the day he was pretty lame as a thrower and he has a lot of ground yet to cover.

jerek
01-05-2007, 09:47 AM
Jeez, do you watch the games or do you just hit up the stat sheet? He made plays keeping his team alive on offense and he was an effective scorer in the offense as the season wore on. Browsing stat lines can make you an insightful baseball analyst...but when it comes to football it will end up making you look...well, less than insightful.

What about me stating that he is "a dangerous runner with a questionable arm who nevertheless has a habit of making clutch plays" disagrees with what you just said?

jerek
01-05-2007, 09:48 AM
He had more intermediate TD passes than your boy Carr...and he doesn't have 80 starts under his belt.

No joke, and I think Carr has better receivers to work with. I liked Carr when the season began because he seemed to demonstrate a lot of progress but even I acknowledge the question marks now. I still think he'll end up getting one more year for financial reasons. But yes, he hurt my feelings this second half of the season.

Nice comparison tactic though -- he didn't suck as bad as someone else, ergo he doesn't suck. Specious logic there buddy.

real
01-05-2007, 09:51 AM
Again VY had a good year and it's scary that he played as well as he did at times being only a rookie. His "intangibles" did translate well to the NFL, but at the end of the day he was pretty lame as a thrower and he has a lot of ground yet to cover.

You know....I totally agree with this....

But let me pose this question...

Suppose VY never becomes an elite passer, and every season of his NFL career go something like this past one...Suppose his team just wins games, but his throwing stats never become great(which I think they will)...Suppose he wins a superbowl or has many play-off appearances...how would you view him as a QB ?

jerek
01-05-2007, 09:51 AM
Jaws was stating that Youngs arm was impressive after watching him on film...but then again, he watches the games.

Good for Jaws. Wasn't Jaws also pimping Reggie Bush? You want a cookie for quoting an ESPN analyst? Look dude I watch as much film as I can and since I don't have NFL Network I'm forced to try to catch up when I visit my friends who do, and my opinion is my opinion. I've seen several complete Titans games this year and that's all there is to it. If you want to pray to Vince before you go to sleep at night then feel free, but quoting Jaws isn't going to earn you any points in a debate forum.

jerek
01-05-2007, 09:54 AM
It's because of you and your history of saying Young sucks and Carr is great. It's your long history, not mine.

Well nice -- this after you just get through essentially defending Vince's overall record in spite of a few bad performances. I make mistakes and I've freely admitted that I underestimated VY and perhaps overestimated Carr, but my overall record speaks for itself. I hit and I miss and I like to think I bat a pretty high percentage and you're certainly free to think that I don't. I am what I am and I apparently I don't have as much time to watch TV as some of you guys do and I have no problem admitting that either.

jerek
01-05-2007, 09:57 AM
I was just pointing to an ex qb that has a TV show breaking down gamefilm as someone who brings credible commentary for my pov....you should try it sometimes since Merrill Hodge is not such bad company.

LOL that's fine, but I can't believe you of all people would quote ESPN ... who is known for presenting things fairly and accurately and refraining from sensationalist POVs ...

When I watch VY, I think he has a sufficiently strong arm, I just think he slings a lot of wild throws right now. He certainly has, oh, I don't know, the next fifteen years or so to improve it and I think he will, but that's my opinion of his arm as it is today. And his passing numbers certainly seem to back up that assertion.

jerek
01-05-2007, 09:59 AM
I give honest takes with MY OWN EYES, and give some examples of National guys stating what I've stated FOR YEARS. I don't need any points from you. You were the guy who pounded thousands and thousands of less than insightful comments about the QB position for endless hours last off season...I can't wait for your insight this year....I'm on the edge of my seat.

LOL nice. Rest assured I'll deliver. I like how you bold MY OWN EYES after quoting Jaws, as if I was borrowing some one else's eyes this whole time. Any way man I think you are just having a good time but at the risk of this getting personal I'll happily withdraw for now.

jerek
01-05-2007, 10:09 AM
You know....I totally agree with this....

But let me pose this question...

Suppose VY never becomes an elite passer, and every season of his NFL career go something like this past one...Suppose his team just wins games, but his throwing stats never become great(which I think they will)...Suppose he wins a superbowl or has many play-off appearances...how would you view him as a QB ?

I would read his stat lines and make my pronouncement based solely on his passer rating, find some other people in the press who happened to agree with me, and would vehemently bicker with anyone who disagreed because I looked at the stat line with MY OWN EYES, which necessitates that my opinions are immune to disagreement.

Seriously though it would just depend on how he played. As an example I think Rex Grossman blows but his team won games any way. As a player Vince is certainly more dangerous than Grossman now but I say that to say that I would try to view his quarterbacking skills on everything he brings to the position personally.

And for the record I do think Vinny knows a lot about the game and I do read his opinions because his record speaks for itself also ... I hope he understands that there's no hard feelings ... I think he was just having a good time as I was any way. I don't really have a problem with being wrong or admitting it when I am.

tulexan
01-05-2007, 10:38 AM
Ku! Mi! Te!...ku! Mi! Te!...ku! Mi! Te!...

jerek
01-05-2007, 11:33 AM
I don't have any hard feelings...I think I come across that way to some though...so I understand. Personally, I don't have a real uptight personality, but I'm blunt and don't always express myself fully so I know I can come across as mad or mean. I bet you remember when I pm'ed you and told you I was concerned for your credibility last year when you aligned with your buddies on VY before the Rose Bowl as you obviously didn't watch him much...but now your buds either post as other people (I know of one off the top of my head) or they stopped posting totally. At least you are here defending your pov still. Big props for that. Credibility in your football commentary is slow to gain and easy to lose. As a person you are very credible...very much so. I'd even say like a role model...but I thought you were playing loose with your future football-opinion credibility...perhaps you weren't and I'm wrong on this one. All I know is the guy is back to back Rose Bowl Champ and Rookie of the Year. When I see him play I see a dangerous QB. I'm not sure what you other guys are looking at other than a QB rating that is just a flawed equation.

I don't know you that well in the scheme of life, but I know you well enough through this forum to have figured you weren't mad or being mean.

My only problem when it comes to analysis is that I don't get to watch as much tape as some people on here. I do have access to certain things that others here don't and I may be smarter about what I do see than a lot of people on here, and I have friends with the team that can tell me about certain goings-on (I know you do as well) ... but at the end of the day I've only seen one other complete Titans game besides the two in which I watched them take us on.

I tend to agree with you personally more often than not and even when I don't I'm happy to concede that you might be proven right eventually. Carr started out the year with a bang but then regressed badly; time will tell if he'll ever get himself over the hump, or if it will be with the Texans.

Vince's rating is an arbitrary equation and like his Wonderlic I don't make too much out of it. The most troublesome number in his stat line for me is his completion percentage. Maybe his WRs are just dropping everything but when I watch VY play I see a dangerous, gutsy player with a wild arm and a lot of clutch factor, whom at this point in his career can still be gameplanned for. I've just seen games where the Titans defense scored multiple touchdowns or their running backs tore off 200-yard, multiple-TD nights and there sat Vince, accounting for 1 TD, 2 TOs, and limited total yardage, and Rich Lord and the VY fan club around here were hugging his nuts for all of it, talking about how VY "inspired" them all to do it. BS. I know it goes that way with Carr around here too -- it's everybody's fault but his any time he makes a mistake -- and it's frustrating because 90% of the posts around here of that caliber.

Making clutch plays and doing what it takes to win is a huge part of the game so from that standpoint it doesn't matter if he's 0 for 20 on first and second downs, but I still think he's got a wild arm and I'd like to see a little consistency before I anoint him All That. Time will tell if he addresses his deficiencies (frankly I hope not, I think he's hard enough for us to play right now) but I'm not going to bet against him. He seems serious about being the best he can be (this is his starkest contrast to Mike Vick, IMO) and he's probably only going to get better.

Titan "Tack" Fan
01-06-2007, 12:15 PM
I wasn't saying Alex Smith is better, just that making the point that he was playing in a system that was new to him also.

Time should tell what QB's come out on top of the 2005 and 2006 NFL Draft Classes. But right now it is too soon. :)

No it isn't. Alex Smith had 1 TD his rookie year. Vince has 19. Vince went 8-5 as a starter.

How you aren't agreeing with me is beyond me. You're trying to tell me that the OROY at quarterback who turned his crappy team around (with the 32nd ranked defense, BTW) is not better than Alex Smith? You're crazy.

This guy obviously hasn't watched Vince play.

dirty steve
01-06-2007, 12:28 PM
Vince's rating is an arbitrary equation and like his Wonderlic I don't make too much out of it. The most troublesome number in his stat line for me is his completion percentage. Maybe his WRs are just dropping everything but when I watch VY play I see a dangerous, gutsy player with a wild arm and a lot of clutch factor, whom at this point in his career can still be gameplanned for. I've just seen games where the Titans defense scored multiple touchdowns or their running backs tore off 200-yard, multiple-TD nights and there sat Vince, accounting for 1 TD, 2 TOs, and limited total yardage, and Rich Lord and the VY fan club around here were hugging his nuts for all of it, talking about how VY "inspired" them all to do it. BS. I know it goes that way with Carr around here too -- it's everybody's fault but his any time he makes a mistake -- and it's frustrating because 90% of the posts around here of that caliber.

Making clutch plays and doing what it takes to win is a huge part of the game so from that standpoint it doesn't matter if he's 0 for 20 on first and second downs, but I still think he's got a wild arm and I'd like to see a little consistency before I anoint him All That. Time will tell if he addresses his deficiencies (frankly I hope not, I think he's hard enough for us to play right now) but I'm not going to bet against him. He seems serious about being the best he can be (this is his starkest contrast to Mike Vick, IMO) and he's probably only going to get better.

can't agree more J. while i concede that VY will be a great player one day, to say he "inspires" Pac-Man Jones or Keith Bulluck is a little far-fetched.

The Dream
01-06-2007, 12:29 PM
VY got a standing O and loudest cheers at the rockets game the other night.......he even brings energy to the rockets!!!!!

dirty steve
01-06-2007, 12:33 PM
VY got a standing O and loudest cheers at the rockets game the other night.......he even brings energy to the rockets!!!!!
just like AJ did last night against the Jazz.

SF49erFaithful
01-06-2007, 06:51 PM
No it isn't. Alex Smith had 1 TD his rookie year. Vince has 19. Vince went 8-5 as a starter.

How you aren't agreeing with me is beyond me. You're trying to tell me that the OROY at quarterback who turned his crappy team around (with the 32nd ranked defense, BTW) is not better than Alex Smith? You're crazy.

This guy obviously hasn't watched Vince play.

How is it not too soon? I also don't see your point when comparing their rookie years..........

And I'm not saying either one is better than the other. I pointed out that it'd be more clear to me in a couple years.

Also, when people say stuff like 'He turned his team around' I disagree. He certainy helped, since he is a definite upgrade over Kerry Collins lol, but it isn't like he carried the Titans on his back. I think the best example of this is the Jacksonville game. Vince Young had a downright embarrassing performance, but Tennessee still won due to other guys making plays.

Dr. Toro
01-06-2007, 10:15 PM
Vince's rating is an arbitrary equation and like his Wonderlic I don't make too much out of it. The most troublesome number in his stat line for me is his completion percentage.

Rookie completion percentages:
Vince Young- 51.5%
David Carr- 52.5%
Peyton Manning- 56.7%
Alex Smith- 50.5%
Donovan McNabb- 49.1%
Eli Manning- 48.2%

I find nothing at all troublesome about that stat. It's to be expected out of a rookie QB, especially one who came out early and had a pretty poor receiving corps. I think we'd agree that if Vince develops into an equal passer to any of those guys, he'll trot to the Pro-Bowl and playoffs annually. He waa as accurate as any of these guys in college, and he'll be plenty accurate in the pros.

Tulip
01-07-2007, 05:24 PM
Vince's rating is an arbitrary equation and like his Wonderlic I don't make too much out of it. The most troublesome number in his stat line for me is his completion percentage.

It doesn't appear that putting stock in the completion percentage stat has served you well in the past, so I am not sure why you are clinging to it. If you had looked beyond that stat with David Carr early in the season, I don't think you would have been the slightest bit encouraged or excited about David's future here.

jerek
01-08-2007, 12:26 PM
It doesn't appear that putting stock in the completion percentage stat has served you well in the past, so I am not sure why you are clinging to it. If you had looked beyond that stat with David Carr early in the season, I don't think you would have been the slightest bit encouraged or excited about David's future here.

It's a stat and like any other stat it requires context. Carr's completion percentage and for most of the season his rating and other passing statistics outweighed Vince Young's, and yet I think Vince Young was the better player throughout the sum total of this season. I'm sure you'd agree.

At the same time, "better than Carr" isn't synonomous with "good enough" or "as good as he should or could be." There are at least a dozen quarterbacks I'd rather have on my team than VY at this exact point in time, not taking into consideration how much I think he might still improve, because at the end of the day quarterbacks are judged on how well they throw the ball in games and VY just doesn't do that that well right now. Typical of the VY fanclub M.O., that you have to make your case and refute my point about his lousy accuracy with a quickdraw comparison to Carr.

VY isn't nearly as good as so many people want to try to make him out to be. He may even some day be, but he isn't now. That was the overwhelming thrust of my post.

ATX
01-08-2007, 01:26 PM
VY isn't nearly as good as so many people want to try to make him out to be. He may even some day be, but he isn't now. That was the overwhelming thrust of my post.

This is what I've been saying too. But then again, Vince doesn't throw over mountains, he throws through them.

The Dream
01-08-2007, 03:25 PM
VY isn't nearly as good as so many people want to try to make him out to be. He may even some day be, but he isn't now. That was the overwhelming thrust of my post.

what exactly do we make him out to be???......All I've said that he's a winner, makes clutch plays, is a leader that teammates trust in, has good pocket presence, etc.......what's so wrong about my (and others) assumptions?

At the same time, "better than Carr" isn't synonomous with "good enough" or "as good as he should or could be." There are at least a dozen quarterbacks I'd rather have on my team than VY at this exact point in time, not taking into consideration how much I think he might still improve, because at the end of the day quarterbacks are judged on how well they throw the ball in games and VY just doesn't do that that well right now. Typical of the VY fanclub M.O., that you have to make your case and refute my point about his lousy accuracy with a quickdraw comparison to Carr.


who are these dozen QBs?

MrMeToo
01-09-2007, 06:59 PM
OK thats enough. Congratulation to VY. But energy to the Rockets? COME ON!I have heard it all now.


I have seen VY play and still makes horrible passes. Got lucky on a 4th down play against the Giants(basically walked away from the sack). Let's see how this generations Randall Cunningham does next year.

Mario Williams got lucky on a sack against Culpepper.

jerek
01-09-2007, 07:59 PM
what exactly do we make him out to be???......All I've said that he's a winner, makes clutch plays, is a leader that teammates trust in, has good pocket presence, etc.......what's so wrong about my (and others) assumptions?

who are these dozen QBs?

I lose track of who says what, but offhand I don't remember you being that hyperbolic. Usually. I'd agree with everything you just said.

Dozen QBs?

NO DOUBT
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Tom Brady
Donovan McNabb
Carson Palmer

PROBABLY
Chad Pennington
Eli Manning

Rex Grossman (totally kidding)

Well ... that's seven.

****. That's only seven QBs I can come up with that I'd rather have than VY right now?

How depressing.

Kaiser Toro
01-09-2007, 08:51 PM
I have always been a big fan of VY and love the fact that he won it, but if I had a vote it would have been MJD. He put up a rare season statistically, as a rookie.

SamuraiSword
01-10-2007, 03:55 AM
VY got a standing O and loudest cheers at the rockets game the other night.......he even brings energy to the rockets!!!!!


I hope when his contract ends in five years he will try to make a run for the Texans QB position if available at the time. But bringing energy to the stadium is a bit far fetched don't you think?