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coachdent
01-02-2007, 12:21 PM
Houston's offensive coordinator Troy Calhoun took the head coaching job at Air Force. Mike Sherman also seems destined to leave for a head coaching vacancy. Both of these things will hopefully help the Texans.

The offense had a major indentity crisis this year. It was without direction or flow. It was sickingly pedestrian at times with little or no motion and formationally stagnant.

We went through "phases" during the season in what seemed like a "hey let's try this" phase. There was the empty sets against the Giants that went away. There was the ONE time Carr was in the gun and ran for TWELVE YARDS! That never came back and was never seen from since.

The pass game was frighteningly inept. Backs were not kept in to max protect, nor were tight ends. At the time during the season when sacks were causing us major problems, we were continuing to release five into routes. Those routes were mostly underneath and stationary. True West Coast is all about getting the ball into receivers' hands in space and then racking up yards after the catch. This year, our YAC was pathetic. One reason is that most of the routes that we throw to are routes where the receiver has his back upfield. He is stationary. Go through a mental note on how many times our backs caught balls at 3 & 4 yards and turned around for 5 or 6 yard gains.

The pass game was predicated on running the football and throwing off the playaction. However, this becomes a problem when you can't run the ball. Additionally, Houston ran less and less bootleg as the season went along. Instead, they ran play action passes where Carr would fake and then set up deeper.

We did not move the pocket and vary Carr's launching points. We put a guy with legs in the same place every throw. We went through another phase where all's we threw were one step drops. This was also in conjunction with the "balls being knocked down" phase. Funny how that happens huh?

We need an explosive player on the offensive side of the ball. Adrian Peterson will hopefully be that guy. The thing about the Texan West Coast that is difficult is that it is a ball control, plodding offense that requires 10,12 and 15 play drives to score. This becomes a problem when you get behind and it becomes a major problem with injuires and lack of talent. It is a tall task to score in the NFL on 10,12 and 15 play drives. That's almost 60 plays to score 28 points....it doesn't happen. The idea of ball control in the NFL will only win you so many games. You have to be explosive. If you look back to the Dom Capers' era, you will see that the Texans were constantly in close games. That will get you to close to .500, but it won't make you a playoff team. The other thing it does is forces you into 3 point games with subpar teams. Cleveland is a perfect example. You should whip that team.

The NFL is geared for the pass. Plain and simple. The rules are made for the pass game. The Texans need to get out of the dark ages and throw the football.

With Calhoun leaving and Sherman leaving, hopefully we will bring in a personality that will throw the football. I have never cared for having a coordinator in name only and then having the coach call the plays. The Eagles are moving away from Reid calling games and they have been very successful doing it. I don't like the way Kubes has managed games. I think it is difficult to be a head coach, an offensive cordinator & play caller and be a quarterback coach. You wear different hats and talk to your quarterback differently in each of those roles...

When Kubes rips into the QB for bad reads or performances as the head coach that is fine. The head coach needs results. But in other situations, that QB would go over to the phone and talk to his QB coach who would talk more about his technique and read progression. Carr doesn't have that in Kubiak. Kubes has to worry about the rest of the team. The QB coach is concerned with what the QB does next and what he as a coach can do to help make sure that he doesn't make that mistake again. A coordinator makes sure that you don't put the QB in that situation again. If the QB is having problems throwing a certain route, you don't call that route. For instance, Carr had a propensity to throw the go route to AJ, regardless of whether he was open or not or if there was double coverage or not. An OC doesn't call that route so Carr doesn't throw that ball.

Carr does not fit this system. I question the decision to extend his contract without any reason before the start of the season. Kubes made that decision and essentially handcuffed us big time. Carr becomes difficult to move, if not impossible. A new coordinator employing more spread formations and concepts within the framework of the West Coast would definitely help our offense. Frankly, there are already components of the spread in our offense that we use already, so it is not like rewriting the playbook.

Ultimately, a coordinator takes his offense and adapts it to his players and their strengths. Carr is a spread offense quarterback. He needs to be in the shotgun and learn to throw out of it. Don't give me this BS that he "can't" and that he "isn't comfotable". You make him comfortable and you make him realize that this will improve our offense and prolong his career.

I'll be sending my resume down this week!

Malloy
01-02-2007, 12:30 PM
Good read as usual, and on the whole I agree too.

Thanks! :)

prostock101
01-02-2007, 12:30 PM
Nice post Coach. The only thing I disagree with is drafting an RB like Peterson. With Davis coming back, Dayne having a breakout year, and with Taylor or Lundy (I like Taylor better) it seems we have a decent core of RB's. And with so many other needs on this team like the OL and DL and secondary, it would seem a waste to get another RB. Any thoughts?

powerfuldragon
01-02-2007, 12:32 PM
another one of coachdent's great reads. rep headed your way.

coachdent
01-02-2007, 12:41 PM
Nice post Coach. The only thing I disagree with is drafting an RB like Peterson. With Davis coming back, Dayne having a breakout year, and with Taylor or Lundy (I like Taylor better) it seems we have a decent core of RB's. And with so many other needs on this team like the OL and DL and secondary, it would seem a waste to get another RB. Any thoughts?

I was going to mention DD, but I haven't heard what his status was. If he can go full tilt and be the explosive back he once was, then I'm ok addressing other needs in the secondary. But I was led to believe he was ok last year before the draft too. That obviously wasn't the case.

The group of backs we have now are not gamebreakers or game changers. I keep Dayne because I think he earned it and is a very good option in short yardage. He is also a nice pounding, physical back. But he is not a feature back. The flashes from Taylor have been nice, but they are flashes. Tough to hitch your horse to that wagon and say ok. Lundy has not impressed me much and again is not a breaker.

Sitting where we are in the draft, offensive line does not look like a viable pick unless you trade down. Joe Thomas will be gone in the top three or four picks. From there, only the tackles from Penn State is ranked near the top 10 draft picks overall. Then there is Blalock from Texas, but again he is projected to come in betwen the 20th or 25th pick.

I think you use top ten picks to make immediate impacts and we need a game changer immediately. If Calvin Johnson is there, I would be happy. But I don't think Kubes would see the value in going with another dynamic receiver. He would say that AJ is fine and Moulds is a good compliment. I would say that we don't have enough wide receivers on the roster and need to get into more three and four receiver sets. Moulds as a number 3 would be sick. He is past being a viable #2. He is limited and not a burner.

prostock101
01-02-2007, 12:50 PM
I was going to mention DD, but I haven't heard what his status was. If he can go full tilt and be the explosive back he once was, then I'm ok addressing other needs in the secondary. But I was led to believe he was ok last year before the draft too. That obviously wasn't the case.

The group of backs we have now are not gamebreakers or game changers. I keep Dayne because I think he earned it and is a very good option in short yardage. He is also a nice pounding, physical back. But he is not a feature back. The flashes from Taylor have been nice, but they are flashes. Tough to hitch your horse to that wagon and say ok. Lundy has not impressed me much and again is not a breaker.

Sitting where we are in the draft, offensive line does not look like a viable pick unless you trade down. Joe Thomas will be gone in the top three or four picks. From there, only the tackles from Penn State is ranked near the top 10 draft picks overall. Then there is Blalock from Texas, but again he is projected to come in betwen the 20th or 25th pick.

I think you use top ten picks to make immediate impacts and we need a game changer immediately. If Calvin Johnson is there, I would be happy. But I don't think Kubes would see the value in going with another dynamic receiver. He would say that AJ is fine and Moulds is a good compliment. I would say that we don't have enough wide receivers on the roster and need to get into more three and four receiver sets. Moulds as a number 3 would be sick. He is past being a viable #2. He is limited and not a burner.

DD states he's near 100% and wants to play next year. My concern is will his knee holdup and that's a big "if". I too like Dayne as a short yardage/relief guy. My other thought is Kubiak will try to get Mathis more in the mix as a receiver. Kub has stated he wants the KR and PR to do double duty. Mathis has the speed but not sure about his receiving abilities.

HOU-TEX
01-02-2007, 12:59 PM
DD states he's near 100% and wants to play next year. My concern is will his knee holdup and that's a big "if". I too like Dayne as a short yardage/relief guy. My other thought is Kubiak will try to get Mathis more in the mix as a receiver. Kub has stated he wants the KR and PR to do double duty. Mathis has the speed but not sure about his receiving abilities.

Here is a quote from Kubiak that I think he should stick with. If DD/DW and Spencer are questionable come draft/FA, he should plan accordingly.

(on assessing Carr reasonably considering injuries around him) “You’re assessing what you’re doing at that time. One of the things, ‘Have we had a lot of injuries?’ You bet. That brings up a good point because the number one thing we can’t do in our organization right now is we can’t sit here and move forward saying, ‘Well if this guy comes back or that guy comes back…if this guy makes it back for OTAs.’ We can’t operate like that. I think we’ve made some mistakes this past year by counting on some situations that didn’t pan out. We can’t do that, we’ve got to move forward if some of these guys that are injured have been out, if they make it back and they’re on that field and we’re better because of that then that’s a bonus. But we can’t operate like that anymore. We won’t get better if we continue to hold off or wait for some of those things to develop. You can’t operate that way. It’s just like during the season when you’ve got guys hurt you can’t sit there and moan about it, you’ve got to go to the next guy and you got to make him play good. You’ve got to find a way to be successful. For us, me and (general manager) Rick (Smith), in operating with this organization that’s not going to be part of the process anymore, we’re going to move forward. Hopefully those guys that are beat up and have missed time and they do make us better, but we’ve got to move forward.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3271&section=N%20Latest%20News

TheOgre
01-02-2007, 01:01 PM
DD states


I think you need to start calling him "DW" or come up with a new nickname.

prostock101
01-02-2007, 01:04 PM
I think you need to start calling him "DW" or come up with a new nickname.

"DW" it is............

coachdent
01-02-2007, 01:08 PM
DD has been "near" 100% for sometime now.

In terms of the Kubes' quote, I would tend to look at that as a backhanded admission of missing on Rggie Bush. Had it been clear that DD was not going to have a prayer at playing a down this year, I think Bush would have been a Texan. It is difficult to argue why he wouldn't have been one.

Water under the bridge to be sure and I think Mario is going to have a fine career. But what it does tell me is that the selection of Adrian Peterson becomes that much more likely. Because banking on DD returning 100% does seem to be a crapshoot at best right now.

prostock101
01-02-2007, 01:37 PM
DD has been "near" 100% for sometime now.

In terms of the Kubes' quote, I would tend to look at that as a backhanded admission of missing on Rggie Bush. Had it been clear that DD was not going to have a prayer at playing a down this year, I think Bush would have been a Texan. It is difficult to argue why he wouldn't have been one.

Water under the bridge to be sure and I think Mario is going to have a fine career. But what it does tell me is that the selection of Adrian Peterson becomes that much more likely. Because banking on DD returning 100% does seem to be a crapshoot at best right now.

Taking Peterson wouldn't be a bad thing but do you think he'll still be on the board with the 8th pick?

Homer
01-02-2007, 01:40 PM
Taking Peterson wouldn't be a bad thing but do you think he'll still be on the board with the 8th pick?

If some teams do like we did last year....

The Pencil Neck
01-02-2007, 01:49 PM
Taking Peterson wouldn't be a bad thing but do you think he'll still be on the board with the 8th pick?

There's a lot of time between now and then. A lot of things could happen. AP could fall to us and we could decide not to take him because of something that shows up in a physical or during the combine. Stranger things have happened.

That's why I'm hesitant to start saying who we should and shouldn't take this far away from April. Last year at this time, I wouldn't have believed that Demeco Ryans was going to fall out of the first 15 picks let alone to the 2nd round.

eric138
01-02-2007, 01:49 PM
"DW" it is............

umm D dub or D dubyah

coachdent
01-02-2007, 01:50 PM
Taking Peterson wouldn't be a bad thing but do you think he'll still be on the board with the 8th pick?


Oakland - Quinn
Detroit - Already have Jones (Joe Thomas?)
Cleveland - Looking at major DLine needs. (Branch DT from Mich.?)
Tampa - Have a Caddy (Adams from Clemson? or Calvin Johnson)
Arizona - James..no way. Need CB help..Cason from Arizona
Washington - RB not a need here either
Minnesota - OL, QB and WR.

I could definitely see him dropping to us. Nice too because he would not cost us as much if we were up there at 3 or 4.

shansmacker
01-02-2007, 01:50 PM
I love A.P.at 8 if he's there.I think he is a much better pro prospect than R.B.In fact i think he'll be the class of the dreft.

edo783
01-02-2007, 01:51 PM
Peterson at 8 would be a huge value pick. Lynch at 8 would be about proper value for the spot IMO. Both would/could be playmakers on the offense.

Coach, what do you think of Lynch at our spot?

WillyP
01-02-2007, 01:52 PM
Taking Peterson wouldn't be a bad thing but do you think he'll still be on the board with the 8th pick?

That doesn't seem like too much of a stretch, IMO. It's certainly possible that Peterson could slip to eight if Cleveland elects to draft for defense and stick with Reuben Droughns.

Oakland has to take a QB. Detroit will probably draft Joe Thomas or a DE. Tampa Bay, Arizona, and Washington are all set at running back. Minnesota signed Chester Taylor last year and he excelled behind their behemoth offensive line.

If he gets that far, he's there for the Texans to take.

coachdent
01-02-2007, 01:59 PM
Peterson at 8 would be a huge value pick. Lynch at 8 would be about proper value for the spot IMO. Both would/could be playmakers on the offense.

Coach, what do you think of Lynch at our spot?

I like Lynch a lot. He would also be another great pick. Had he declared yet?

Lynch is quicker than Peterson, but not as fast. Reminds me a bit of Tomlinson. In some ways, he may be a better pro than Peterson because of the durability issues.

ArlingtonTexan
01-02-2007, 02:38 PM
:includeme:

A Texan
01-02-2007, 05:12 PM
Troy Calhoun will be missed; he has quite a background both in college and the pros for innovative offense. I'll be following his success at Air Force. It'll be interesting to see what they decide to do about OC. Don't think they'll take an RB with the 1st pick; too expensive for an RB unless there's another Earl Campbell which there rarely is.

TPIMP
01-02-2007, 05:32 PM
Great post as always coach. I agree with most of your observations. I will point out that David Carr played in a spread offense in college and used the shotgun plenty. I would expect the lack of shotgun this season had more to do with the starting of three different centers.

Wharton
01-02-2007, 06:41 PM
I'll be sending my resume down this week!You got my vote!

One of the thing that frustrated me to no end this year was watching Carr's slowness (for lack of a better word) in the pocket. When you watch top QB in the pocket, the reads appear to come natural. By natural, I mean smooth and effortless. For instance, I watched Pennington a couple of time this year. And, what he lacks in arm strength, he makes up for in knowledge and presence in the pocket. Usually, Chad knows what the defense is going to do before the snap and goes strait for the open man. If you do see Chad go through his progressions, he doesn't pump the ball, reset feet, pump the ball again, reset feet, then throw. It appears to be more fluid, less mechanical.

With Carr, it doesn't appear to be relaxed nor clean. Carr is jittery from the get go and so locked onto his first target that everybody in the stadium knows his first read.

Also, its said that good QBs never look at thier receivers, they are always looking at the defensive players in the area of the receiver. That good QBs know were the reciever will be or should be and only need to determine where the defensive players will be. I don't know if I believe all that, but itts obvious, Carr locks in on the receiver and holds onto the ball until the receiver comes into the clear. Hence, the wait gets him sacked.

Finally, I'm currently looking for either statistics on tipped balls or the earliest video of David's throwing motion. I don't remember the ball being tipped this much during his first two years. I'm almost positive the elbow has dipped significantly for his rookie year. Something I believe is a dead give away that he's too scared to be an effective passer. Granted I still have to confirm this.

PS: I've put this in several posts, but why did we need to evaluate David for another year? I don't see that it gained us anything. And I don't see that the extra time has taught us any more then what could already be seen on tape from previous years.

I guess I'm just tired and frustrated. And, I'm really starting to question the ownership of the franchise.

NATHANHALE
01-02-2007, 07:39 PM
Troy Calhoun will be missed; he has quite a background both in college and the pros for innovative offense. I'll be following his success at Air Force. It'll be interesting to see what they decide to do about OC. Don't think they'll take an RB with the 1st pick; too expensive for an RB unless there's another Earl Campbell which there rarely is.

...would loved to have seen that innovation in Houston!!!...Kubiak, Sherman, and Calhoun---all thought of as offensive minded--yet we score fewer passing TDs under them than we did with Capers and Pendry(did Joe ever get a job)...wow!!...don't get crazy on me, it's just a 'fact' and not a 'personal opinion'

NATHANHALE
01-02-2007, 07:51 PM
"PS: I've put this in several posts, but why did we need to evaluate David for another year? I don't see that it gained us anything. And I don't see that the extra time has taught us any more then what could already be seen on tape from previous years"

...good point. A lot of posters made excuses for our poor play at times by saying--among other things--Kubiak was installing a new offense...oh,really?

...building a foundation for the future? JMO, but I think we wasted a lot of valuable time by 'not' trying things instead of finding things that would work for the future...offensively, what can we build on?

To me, it's almost like we wasted an entire season and will start our 2nd season under Gary at square one...he still was mentioning at his final press conference his favorite phrase, "...we got to find a way..."--sure would be nice if he'd at least found a starting point this year...

...we sure don't need another 5 yrs built on a failed 'catch phrase,' ala Caper's 'execution' philosophy...

painekiller
01-02-2007, 08:10 PM
The only reason to keep Car another year is to let him take the beating while the OL continue it's growth. Remember Spencer, if he plays, has only 1 full NFL game under his belt, so he is pretty much still a rookie.

If you draft another guy, he will be a rookie, let Carr get beat and move on next year.

This would be the only reasons I could see to keep Carr. Not my choice of what to do, but it is an option.

coachdent
01-02-2007, 08:54 PM
You got my vote!

One of the thing that frustrated me to no end this year was watching Carr's slowness (for lack of a better word) in the pocket. When you watch top QB in the pocket, the reads appear to come natural. By natural, I mean smooth and effortless. For instance, I watched Pennington a couple of time this year. And, what he lacks in arm strength, he makes up for in knowledge and presence in the pocket. Usually, Chad knows what the defense is going to do before the snap and goes strait for the open man. If you do see Chad go through his progressions, he doesn't pump the ball, reset feet, pump the ball again, reset feet, then throw. It appears to be more fluid, less mechanical.

With Carr, it doesn't appear to be relaxed nor clean. Carr is jittery from the get go and so locked onto his first target that everybody in the stadium knows his first read.

Also, its said that good QBs never look at thier receivers, they are always looking at the defensive players in the area of the receiver. That good QBs know were the reciever will be or should be and only need to determine where the defensive players will be. I don't know if I believe all that, but itts obvious, Carr locks in on the receiver and holds onto the ball until the receiver comes into the clear. Hence, the wait gets him sacked.

Finally, I'm currently looking for either statistics on tipped balls or the earliest video of David's throwing motion. I don't remember the ball being tipped this much during his first two years. I'm almost positive the elbow has dipped significantly for his rookie year. Something I believe is a dead give away that he's too scared to be an effective passer. Granted I still have to confirm this.


Carr definitely was not comfortable in the pocket. Lots of excuses for it, but ultimately the QB has to be able to stand up comfortably in the pocket.

Here's one explaination for it and it is right along the lines of what I had mentioned in my original post...

West Coast offenses pride themselves in being able to "do the same thing out of different formations and packages". But they also like to "tag" routes as well. Literally, they can take a simple route like Curl and turn it into
Stem I Right Close Z Peel - P82 F Arrow. Then change one word to: Stem Right Close Z Peel - P82 F Angle... And you have now changed the route progression reads of the QB. Additionally, with tight ends running routes, plays take longer to develop.

Carr has not taken to the "system" to say the least.


We have had more balls knocked down this year for a number of reasons:

1. Carr's throwing motion...but not as much as people think.
2. We ran a ton of one step drops early on in an effort to help our protection.
3. A shift in philosophy in defensive coordinators in the 2000's.

#3... with the advent of the increased passing game in the NFL and interior OLinemen getting bigger and bigger, defensive tackles are becoming more and more responsible for pushing back the pocket and disrupting throwing lanes. You will often see DTs rushing the QB with their heads a little high and ready to raise up and get their hands up. This is happening league wide.


I agree that it was not intelligent to extend Carr when an extension was not warranted at all.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2007, 09:02 PM
Is'nt the WCO an offense for more of a finesse type QB ? A point gaurd on grass .

I see Carr at least at first as a guy who wants to use his arm strength , drop back , scan the field , and zip it . If he were a shortstop he'd play deep , make sure he makes the catch , and put lots of mustard on it .

phan1
01-02-2007, 09:21 PM
I just can't understand how bad he's fizzled out this year. Honestly, I don't think anyone here would believe Carr would have this miserable of a season. In the past, we've seen inconsistency, but there were many times when he played really well. I was definitely expecting to see Carr improve and keep his game up for the whole game.

This year, he's been pretty consistent when the game starts: Consistently bad for the whole game or consistently mediocre for the whole game. I just wish I knew WTF was going on with him. But the team keeps things very private, and it's hard to know what Kubiak and the orginization really think of Carr.

coachdent
01-02-2007, 09:48 PM
Is'nt the WCO an offense for more of a finesse type QB ? A point gaurd on grass .

I see Carr at least at first as a guy who wants to use his arm strength , drop back , scan the field , and zip it . If he were a shortstop he'd play deep , make sure he makes the catch , and put lots of mustard on it .

WC is a finesse offense to be sure.

PoolMaster21
01-02-2007, 11:16 PM
...would loved to have seen that innovation in Houston!!!...Kubiak, Sherman, and Calhoun---all thought of as offensive minded--yet we score fewer passing TDs under them than we did with Capers and Pendry(did Joe ever get a job)...wow!!...

You've hit the nail on the head - three OCs is two too many. Kubiak needs to be the HC - no more play calling. I think it's tough for a new HC who is considered a "genius" at either offense or defense to step back and learn how to be the head coach - the head coach needs to establish the system/philosophy, hire coaches to implement it, and then stand back - hopefully Kubes will get the hang of it. I'll be extremely interested to see who we hire as the OC (assuming Sherman is gone, which is highly likely).

Tulip
01-02-2007, 11:40 PM
Finally, I'm currently looking for either statistics on tipped balls or the earliest video of David's throwing motion. I don't remember the ball being tipped this much during his first two years. I'm almost positive the elbow has dipped significantly for his rookie year. Something I believe is a dead give away that he's too scared to be an effective passer. Granted I still have to confirm this..

I think Capers had the ladder out at practice the first year or two, but then just let it go after that. Not sure.

Ibar_Harry
01-02-2007, 11:52 PM
Houston's offensive coordinator Troy Calhoun took the head coaching job at Air Force. Mike Sherman also seems destined to leave for a head coaching vacancy. Both of these things will hopefully help the Texans.

The offense had a major indentity crisis this year. It was without direction or flow. It was sickingly pedestrian at times with little or no motion and formationally stagnant.

We went through "phases" during the season in what seemed like a "hey let's try this" phase. There was the empty sets against the Giants that went away. There was the ONE time Carr was in the gun and ran for TWELVE YARDS! That never came back and was never seen from since.

The pass game was frighteningly inept. Backs were not kept in to max protect, nor were tight ends. At the time during the season when sacks were causing us major problems, we were continuing to release five into routes. Those routes were mostly underneath and stationary. True West Coast is all about getting the ball into receivers' hands in space and then racking up yards after the catch. This year, our YAC was pathetic. One reason is that most of the routes that we throw to are routes where the receiver has his back upfield. He is stationary. Go through a mental note on how many times our backs caught balls at 3 & 4 yards and turned around for 5 or 6 yard gains.

The pass game was predicated on running the football and throwing off the playaction. However, this becomes a problem when you can't run the ball. Additionally, Houston ran less and less bootleg as the season went along. Instead, they ran play action passes where Carr would fake and then set up deeper.

We did not move the pocket and vary Carr's launching points. We put a guy with legs in the same place every throw. We went through another phase where all's we threw were one step drops. This was also in conjunction with the "balls being knocked down" phase. Funny how that happens huh?

We need an explosive player on the offensive side of the ball. Adrian Peterson will hopefully be that guy. The thing about the Texan West Coast that is difficult is that it is a ball control, plodding offense that requires 10,12 and 15 play drives to score. This becomes a problem when you get behind and it becomes a major problem with injuires and lack of talent. It is a tall task to score in the NFL on 10,12 and 15 play drives. That's almost 60 plays to score 28 points....it doesn't happen. The idea of ball control in the NFL will only win you so many games. You have to be explosive. If you look back to the Dom Capers' era, you will see that the Texans were constantly in close games. That will get you to close to .500, but it won't make you a playoff team. The other thing it does is forces you into 3 point games with subpar teams. Cleveland is a perfect example. You should whip that team.

The NFL is geared for the pass. Plain and simple. The rules are made for the pass game. The Texans need to get out of the dark ages and throw the football.

With Calhoun leaving and Sherman leaving, hopefully we will bring in a personality that will throw the football. I have never cared for having a coordinator in name only and then having the coach call the plays. The Eagles are moving away from Reid calling games and they have been very successful doing it. I don't like the way Kubes has managed games. I think it is difficult to be a head coach, an offensive cordinator & play caller and be a quarterback coach. You wear different hats and talk to your quarterback differently in each of those roles...

When Kubes rips into the QB for bad reads or performances as the head coach that is fine. The head coach needs results. But in other situations, that QB would go over to the phone and talk to his QB coach who would talk more about his technique and read progression. Carr doesn't have that in Kubiak. Kubes has to worry about the rest of the team. The QB coach is concerned with what the QB does next and what he as a coach can do to help make sure that he doesn't make that mistake again. A coordinator makes sure that you don't put the QB in that situation again. If the QB is having problems throwing a certain route, you don't call that route. For instance, Carr had a propensity to throw the go route to AJ, regardless of whether he was open or not or if there was double coverage or not. An OC doesn't call that route so Carr doesn't throw that ball.

Carr does not fit this system. I question the decision to extend his contract without any reason before the start of the season. Kubes made that decision and essentially handcuffed us big time. Carr becomes difficult to move, if not impossible. A new coordinator employing more spread formations and concepts within the framework of the West Coast would definitely help our offense. Frankly, there are already components of the spread in our offense that we use already, so it is not like rewriting the playbook.

Ultimately, a coordinator takes his offense and adapts it to his players and their strengths. Carr is a spread offense quarterback. He needs to be in the shotgun and learn to throw out of it. Don't give me this BS that he "can't" and that he "isn't comfotable". You make him comfortable and you make him realize that this will improve our offense and prolong his career.

I'll be sending my resume down this week!

I love it. There has been a great deal of discussion today about the difference between the HC at Boise State and Pat Hill at Fresno State. You have a very similar situation. By the way the HC used to be the OC at Boise State so it should be no surprise that the play calling remained the same. It has to do with risk taking. Another name along those lines is Tedford. People don't understand how vanilla we have become. On the West Coast we are use to seeing a totally different kind of offense than Texans are use to seeing. It has to do with a style of game. In fact I have often said I didn't know why the Texans drafted Carr? It has to do with his style of play and what he does best. I didn't feel he was a fit for the HC he was under. I think that is still true.

Kubiak is not a Walsh deciple. He is a deciple of Shannihan and those two coaches are very different in their perspective of the game. Walsh called a pass to set up the run type of offense with Montana. Shannihan has always been a run to eventually set up the pass offense. Shannihan's game is predicated on a very sound to great defense that will stop the other team and give you opportunities to get the ball back. Walsh allowed his QB's freedom and Shannihan does not. Its all about control and risk taking.

281
01-03-2007, 12:00 AM
Cleveland will take Peterson with the third pick if he goes pro (more than likely). book it.

coachdent
01-03-2007, 12:15 AM
I love it. There has been a great deal of discussion today about the difference between the HC at Boise State and Pat Hill at Fresno State. You have a very similar situation. By the way the HC used to be the OC at Boise State so it should be no surprise that the play calling remained the same. It has to do with risk taking. Another name along those lines is Tedford. People don't understand how vanilla we have become. On the West Coast we are use to seeing a totally different kind of offense than Texans are use to seeing. It has to do with a style of game. In fact I have often said I didn't know why the Texans drafted Carr? It has to do with his style of play and what he does best. I didn't feel he was a fit for the HC he was under. I think that is still true.

Kubiak is not a Walsh deciple. He is a deciple of Shannihan and those two coaches are very different in their perspective of the game. Walsh called a pass to set up the run type of offense with Montana. Shannihan has always been a run to eventually set up the pass offense. Shannihan's game is predicated on a very sound to great defense that will stop the other team and give you opportunities to get the ball back. Walsh allowed his QB's freedom and Shannihan does not. Its all about control and risk taking.

An older website, but kinda neat to see the family tree of West Coast Offense Coaches.

http://users2.ev1.net/~jamrtm/index.htm

coachdent
01-03-2007, 12:18 AM
After watching Louisville, I just had visions of Michael Bush dropping into round two. What a friggin' freak he is!! I'll take a flier on that dude in a heartbeat!

AUSTexan
01-03-2007, 12:41 PM
After watching Louisville, I just had visions of Michael Bush dropping into round two. What a friggin' freak he is!! I'll take a flier on that dude in a heartbeat!


Agreed! Would love to have Joe Thomas in rnd 1 & Michael Bush in rnd 2... QB in rnd 3 to develop. Address defense through free agency and late draft picks.

Michael Bush might end up being the better -running back- of the 'Bushes'...

Crazyhorse
01-03-2007, 02:17 PM
Be careful what you wish for. Everyone thought that Robert Gallery was the second coming when Oakland drafted him three years ago and to now he has been a bust!!!!!!
I for one will be interested in Thomas's combine workouts and getting more information on him before I jump to a decision.

threetoedpete
01-03-2007, 02:24 PM
Now if they can only teach All Day to cover OLT. I think you fellas might be on to something.

threetoedpete
01-03-2007, 02:29 PM
Be careful what you wish for. Everyone thought that Robert Gallery was the second coming when Oakland drafted him three years ago and to now he has been a bust!!!!!!
I for one will be interested in Thomas's combine workouts and getting more information on him before I jump to a decision.

We aren't giving up three high picks to move up. All day at the eight is a nice value pick. But you come away from the off season with out improved tallent on the offensive line , you can pretty much expect to see a replay of '06. All Day at the eight or not, the lines have to be fixed this off season. Tallent does matter.

Yeah the round peg for the five year old round hole would be a reach. So which year do you fix the o-line Crazyhorse ? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Ole Miss Texan
01-03-2007, 02:50 PM
I would love to have joe thomas or AP...or Bush in the 2nd. Our offense really needs some spark. However with this years draft I really see us going defense again. our secondary needs major help. This years draft if very strong and deep on the defensive side. The '08 draft should be very strong with 0-line..mainly left tackle with Baker and Long staying in school, QB should be strong next year, and RB could be good as well, if AP stays? Bush stays....Steve Slaton..Darren McFadden!

I would like immediate offensive upgrades...but see us going defense this year and overhauling on offense next draft. Chances of Carr being around after the '08 draft are slimmer than '07 draft.

dalemurphy
01-03-2007, 02:55 PM
I would love to have joe thomas or AP...or Bush in the 2nd. Our offense really needs some spark. However with this years draft I really see us going defense again. our secondary needs major help. This years draft if very strong and deep on the defensive side. The '08 draft should be very strong with 0-line..mainly left tackle with Baker and Long staying in school, QB should be strong next year, and RB could be good as well, if AP stays? Bush stays....Steve Slaton..Darren McFadden!

I would like immediate offensive upgrades...but see us going defense this year and overhauling on offense next draft. Chances of Carr being around after the '08 draft are slimmer than '07 draft.


I think it's likely that we trade down this year. Assuming we address CB in free agency, we don't really need any top dollar playmakers. We need a RB, FS, SLB, and olinemen all of which can be gotten lower in the first round and in the second and third. Only if there is a stud CB sitting at 8 would I expect us to stay there.

Crazyhorse
01-03-2007, 03:45 PM
Threetoe's ,
I'm not saying don't try to improve the oline I'm just saying I want to do the homework to make sure we get the right man or men as the case may be.
I like others believe we will lean to the defense again this year.

threetoedpete
01-03-2007, 04:03 PM
Threetoe's ,
I'm not saying don't try to improve the oline I'm just saying I want to do the homework to make sure we get the right man or men as the case may be.
I like others believe we will lean to the defense again this year.

The try bit has been the problem CrazyHorse. Not that I mind that. What I do mind is that "try" being igonred by quite a few on the board and being deluged with DC sux posts, who say it makes no differece what so ever. How many years do you throw the guy to the wolves ? Mind Boggeling. Tallent levels matter.

Ole Miss Texan
01-03-2007, 04:28 PM
I have always supported us trading down...I think that could help us out a lot. I'm not so sure about it anymore. I like where we are sitting at 8. We will most likely have our pick of the FS's and CB's. Although 1 FS could go before us, maybe to AZ if Thomas is gone? and if we trade down Atlanta would pick up the other. That leaves us with a CB...maybe Pat Willis which I would love. It seems with our 'new' team that we need to try and find the right guy that fits. The 'top' guy at the position may not be good for us, but maybe the 2nd best guy would be...if there wasn't a big drop off in talent level. Thats why trading down could be good except if the guy gets picked. Offensive definitly fits this category but not this years draft.

I support whatever Kubes decides...I think it will be great. I'd be okay with a trade down but do like our spot at 8 as well.

SamuraiSword
01-04-2007, 06:19 AM
Houston's offensive coordinator Troy Calhoun took the head coaching job at Air Force. Mike Sherman also seems destined to leave for a head coaching vacancy. Both of these things will hopefully help the Texans.

The offense had a major indentity crisis this year. It was without direction or flow. It was sickingly pedestrian at times with little or no motion and formationally stagnant.

We went through "phases" during the season in what seemed like a "hey let's try this" phase. There was the empty sets against the Giants that went away. There was the ONE time Carr was in the gun and ran for TWELVE YARDS! That never came back and was never seen from since.

The pass game was frighteningly inept. Backs were not kept in to max protect, nor were tight ends. At the time during the season when sacks were causing us major problems, we were continuing to release five into routes. Those routes were mostly underneath and stationary. True West Coast is all about getting the ball into receivers' hands in space and then racking up yards after the catch. This year, our YAC was pathetic. One reason is that most of the routes that we throw to are routes where the receiver has his back upfield. He is stationary. Go through a mental note on how many times our backs caught balls at 3 & 4 yards and turned around for 5 or 6 yard gains.

The pass game was predicated on running the football and throwing off the playaction. However, this becomes a problem when you can't run the ball. Additionally, Houston ran less and less bootleg as the season went along. Instead, they ran play action passes where Carr would fake and then set up deeper.

We did not move the pocket and vary Carr's launching points. We put a guy with legs in the same place every throw. We went through another phase where all's we threw were one step drops. This was also in conjunction with the "balls being knocked down" phase. Funny how that happens huh?

We need an explosive player on the offensive side of the ball. Adrian Peterson will hopefully be that guy. The thing about the Texan West Coast that is difficult is that it is a ball control, plodding offense that requires 10,12 and 15 play drives to score. This becomes a problem when you get behind and it becomes a major problem with injuires and lack of talent. It is a tall task to score in the NFL on 10,12 and 15 play drives. That's almost 60 plays to score 28 points....it doesn't happen. The idea of ball control in the NFL will only win you so many games. You have to be explosive. If you look back to the Dom Capers' era, you will see that the Texans were constantly in close games. That will get you to close to .500, but it won't make you a playoff team. The other thing it does is forces you into 3 point games with subpar teams. Cleveland is a perfect example. You should whip that team.

The NFL is geared for the pass. Plain and simple. The rules are made for the pass game. The Texans need to get out of the dark ages and throw the football.
With Calhoun leaving and Sherman leaving, hopefully we will bring in a personality that will throw the football. I have never cared for having a coordinator in name only and then having the coach call the plays. The Eagles are moving away from Reid calling games and they have been very successful doing it. I don't like the way Kubes has managed games. I think it is difficult to be a head coach, an offensive cordinator & play caller and be a quarterback coach. You wear different hats and talk to your quarterback differently in each of those roles...

When Kubes rips into the QB for bad reads or performances as the head coach that is fine. The head coach needs results. But in other situations, that QB would go over to the phone and talk to his QB coach who would talk more about his technique and read progression. Carr doesn't have that in Kubiak. Kubes has to worry about the rest of the team. The QB coach is concerned with what the QB does next and what he as a coach can do to help make sure that he doesn't make that mistake again. A coordinator makes sure that you don't put the QB in that situation again. If the QB is having problems throwing a certain route, you don't call that route. For instance, Carr had a propensity to throw the go route to AJ, regardless of whether he was open or not or if there was double coverage or not. An OC doesn't call that route so Carr doesn't throw that ball.

Carr does not fit this system. I question the decision to extend his contract without any reason before the start of the season. Kubes made that decision and essentially handcuffed us big time. Carr becomes difficult to move, if not impossible. A new coordinator employing more spread formations and concepts within the framework of the West Coast would definitely help our offense. Frankly, there are already components of the spread in our offense that we use already, so it is not like rewriting the playbook.

Ultimately, a coordinator takes his offense and adapts it to his players and their strengths. Carr is a spread offense quarterback. He needs to be in the shotgun and learn to throw out of it. Don't give me this BS that he "can't" and that he "isn't comfotable". You make him comfortable and you make him realize that this will improve our offense and prolong his career.

I'll be sending my resume down this week!

The reason why you see the Texans running so much was because David has some mechanics needed to be fixed in his passing game. I noticed Carr makes some inaccurate decisions when it comes to throwing the ball to his designated target. So what college did you coach at? I hear the Texans might pick Mark Price as OC. This is just speculation of course. I hope you get the job and good luck!

coachdent
01-04-2007, 08:01 AM
The reason why you see the Texans running so much was because David has some mechanics needed to be fixed in his passing game. I noticed Carr makes some inaccurate decisions when it comes to throwing the ball to his designated target. So what college did you coach at? I hear the Texans might pick Mark Price as OC. This is just speculation of course. I hope you get the job and good luck!


The reason why the Texans ran so much is because this is a run first offense in which the run predicates the pass. This is the offensive philosophy. That has nothing to do with Carr's mechanics.

News flash as well. In the NFL, they don't work on QB mechanics. I have spoken to a number of NFL coaches and very few work on changing mechanic. I remember being a green first year high school coach almost 15 years ago when I spoke to Ted Marchibroda who was then coach of the Indy Colts. I asked him about what they did with Jeff George in practice with his poor mechanics. He looked at me like I was from Mars and condescendingly informed me that they don't work on changing a guy who has quote "been throwing that way all his life". They have four hundred page playbooks to get through in a week and don't have time to work on their mechanics.

This is wrong in my opinion and it is the reason why some quarterbacks languish to have the same season over and over again.

I coached for four years at Wesley College (DIII school in Delaware that recently lost in the DIII semifinals, ranked #3 in the nation). Coached in Europe for a team in Paris. Won the French National Championship and went to the European Championships, finished third in Europe. Ursinus College (DIII PA) and Cheyney University (DII) for a year. Currently head coach of a high school in Delaware for the last six years.

Ibar_Harry
01-04-2007, 03:41 PM
Is'nt the WCO an offense for more of a finesse type QB ? A point gaurd on grass .

I see Carr at least at first as a guy who wants to use his arm strength , drop back , scan the field , and zip it . If he were a shortstop he'd play deep , make sure he makes the catch , and put lots of mustard on it .

That's what he did in college.....

Double Barrel
01-04-2007, 03:45 PM
In the NFL, they don't work on QB mechanics.

Actually, I think it was Carr's rookie season (IIRC) that they tried to work on his delivery in TC. They had some kind of setup with ladders that forced him to throw over-hand instead of the sidearm that he possesses. I don't think this 'training' lasted very long, though, but I do remember reading the news stories about Chris Palmer trying to address his mechanics, FWIW.

SamuraiSword
01-05-2007, 03:51 AM
The reason why the Texans ran so much is because this is a run first offense in which the run predicates the pass. This is the offensive philosophy. That has nothing to do with Carr's mechanics.

News flash as well. In the NFL, they don't work on QB mechanics. I have spoken to a number of NFL coaches and very few work on changing mechanic. I remember being a green first year high school coach almost 15 years ago when I spoke to Ted Marchibroda who was then coach of the Indy Colts. I asked him about what they did with Jeff George in practice with his poor mechanics. He looked at me like I was from Mars and condescendingly informed me that they don't work on changing a guy who has quote "been throwing that way all his life". They have four hundred page playbooks to get through in a week and don't have time to work on their mechanics.

This is wrong in my opinion and it is the reason why some quarterbacks languish to have the same season over and over again.

I coached for four years at Wesley College (DIII school in Delaware that recently lost in the DIII semifinals, ranked #3 in the nation). Coached in Europe for a team in Paris. Won the French National Championship and went to the European Championships, finished third in Europe. Ursinus College (DIII PA) and Cheyney University (DII) for a year. Currently head coach of a high school in Delaware for the last six years.

Damn nice resume! I hope you get in bro! I always figured they just ran the ball more because of Carr, but hey only thing i know how to do is womp the CPU on Madden especially at the toughest level. :D

jdog
01-05-2007, 09:50 AM
Anybody like Darius Walker? Is he playing his senior year? I liked him against LSU. He went outside easily against a fast LSU defense.