PDA

View Full Version : Spencer according to McClain


joedinkle
01-01-2007, 12:10 PM
The Texans also need a left tackle on offense. They can move Charles Spencer, who's recovering nicely from his fractured leg, to right tackle. Eric Winston can move to right guard. Fred Weary can move to center. Chester Pitts can stay at left guard. If they want to keep Spencer at left tackle, it won't be a priority position.

So I guess all this career threatening talk isn't true.

brewhaus
01-01-2007, 12:18 PM
So I guess all this career threatening talk isn't true.

McClain was only giving his opinion. That's all......but I really hope Charles is back next year and ready to kick butt !

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
01-01-2007, 12:33 PM
All we can do is keep our fingers crossed that this is true and Spencer will be back at full strengh and ready to get after it. Still think we need to look for O-linemen in the Draft so we have Depth AND QUIALITY at the O-Line positions. Injury Bug is a nasty little thing that tens to bite our o-line every year need to be ready for it next year.

Here's to Spencers FULL recovery.:yahoo:

Sportsfan
01-01-2007, 12:35 PM
Weary to Center? Helloooo! We have Flanagan, one of the best centers in the league, unless he is a FA next year????...

houstonhurricane
01-01-2007, 12:35 PM
Yep, I think Spencer's rehab is one of the biggest question marks heading into next year.

Good luck to him and hope to see him starting in Week One.

YoungTexanFan
01-01-2007, 12:39 PM
Weary to Center? Helloooo! We have Flanagan, one of the best centers in the league, unless he is a FA next year????...

Weary was the best C in his draft class and has played fairly well at OG.

Flanagan was one of the biggest dissapointments for us last year. He pretty much sucked it up and couldn't hold his own at the POA. He got no drive and could not turn his hip to seal a lane. He came out with good punch, but was back on his heels too much. Hodgen looked no better to say the least. IMO, we either draft at top C or move Weary over.

wwffan99tx
01-01-2007, 01:23 PM
Weary to Center? Helloooo! We have Flanagan, one of the best centers in the league, unless he is a FA next year????...

Are you kidding me?? Flanagan was flat out horrible here. Hopefully he is long gone!

A Texan
01-01-2007, 01:29 PM
Weary to Center? Helloooo! We have Flanagan, one of the best centers in the league, unless he is a FA next year????...
I don't get that either. Weary had a hard enough time learning to play guard. Leave him where he's at. Hodgdon is a pretty good backup for Flanagan.

aj.
01-01-2007, 01:31 PM
Not sure what everyone was expecting from Flanagan. It was widely reported before the season that the real benefit in signing him would be his positive influence in the locker room as opposed to anything he could (still) do on the field. You really can't count on him as a full time starter any more.

mexican_texan
01-01-2007, 01:32 PM
...but Flannagan had a high rating in Madden...

Who said Spencer's injury was career threatning? Who would you trust more than McClain?

DRAMA
01-01-2007, 01:35 PM
McClain didn't say 'In my opinion' he said it matter of factly. He IS recovering nicely. Whether he actually is or not, I don't know. McClain probably does know. If he would've said, from what I hear, that may have lent some speculation to it. He said it as if he knows it so...we'll see.

aj.
01-01-2007, 01:37 PM
I know that McClain has spoken to Kevin Bastin about it very recently.

old football fan
01-01-2007, 01:41 PM
...but Flannagan had a high rating in Madden...

Who said Spencer's injury was career threatning? Who would you trust more than McClain?

Any homeless person living in Houston.

DRAMA
01-01-2007, 01:42 PM
If Spencer is going to be fine, we may have a chance to do something. Let's assume Russell comes out...bla,bla,bla....

1.) Is it remotely possible that the Texans could trade Carr to the Raiders simply to move up in the draft? David and the 8th pick to the Raiders? (Probably not but here's to hope!)

If we could somehow move up and get Joe Thomas.

LT - Thomas
LG - Pitts
C - Weary/ McKinney
RG - Winston (Who BTW has looked pretty darn good!)
RT - Spencer

That OL has some promise! Of course, it would be ironic to trade David for the final piece in the OL.

Vinny
01-01-2007, 01:46 PM
...but Flannagan had a high rating in Madden...

Who said Spencer's injury was career threatning? Who would you trust more than McClain?Gary Kubiak.

This all stated from the mouth of Kubiak many weeks ago on his radio show. He was the one who stated that the injury could be one he may not come back from....and that he would be monitoring it closely since it was worse than they expected at first glance.

Kaiser Toro
01-01-2007, 01:48 PM
If Spencer is going to be fine, we may have a chance to do something. Let's assume Russell comes out...bla,bla,bla....

1.) Is it remotely possible that the Texans could trade Carr to the Raiders simply to move up in the draft? David and the 8th pick to the Raiders? (Probably not but here's to hope!)

If we could somehow move up and get Joe Thomas.

LT - Thomas
LG - Pitts
C - Weary/ McKinney
RG - Winston (Who BTW has looked pretty darn good!)
RT - Spencer

That OL has some promise! Of course, it would be ironic to trade David for the final piece in the OL.

Does not make sense. In that scenario we would be paying for Carr's contract 7.25m next year and eating another 2m the follwing year, just to move up a couple of spots to pay another Rookie top money against our 109m cap.

As much as I do not want Carr it does not make any sense to trade him or to trade for him. His trade value is more about getting an accurate measure of his true demand in order to position a re negotiated contract. That is my opinion or how I would be playing it on the Texans side.

aj.
01-01-2007, 01:57 PM
[the Texans could trade Carr to the Raiders simply to move up in the draft?] Does not make sense. In that scenario we would be paying for Carr's contract 7.25m next year and eating another 2m the follwing year, just to move up a couple of spots to pay another Rookie top money against our 109m cap.
.

Carr's total cap liability is around $5.2 million whether he is traded or released.

The entire hit counts in the current year if he is traded.

It can be split over two years if he is a post-June 1 release (unlikely) or a player designated for release prior to the beginning of the new league year - on or around March 1 - in order to gain the post-June 1 cap benefit in accordance with the new CBA (more likely if he is released and not traded).

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
01-01-2007, 02:01 PM
How did a Spencer thread turn into a Carr thread?

Imatexanfan
01-01-2007, 02:03 PM
At 6-4, 352 he is certainly big enough, is there an issue with his speed or mechanics that I am not aware of?

If it is a foregone conclusion that they are going to make the switch, does anyone know if there are going to be any premiere left tackles available in free agency?

Some people are acting like we can just run to Kroger and pick up a Jonathon Ogden, or find a clone of D'Brickashaw Ferguson with the eigth pick. :shades:

aj.
01-01-2007, 02:05 PM
How did a Spencer thread turn into a Carr thread?

See the post by Drama. Kind of a natural musing it seems ..."then what if Spencer comes back healthy..."

Runner
01-01-2007, 02:09 PM
The Texans and moreso the fans like to talk about Winston at guard. At 6'7" he's pretty tall for that position - I think. The shorter, stronger DTs would have a big advantage over him because they could get under his pads easier and blow him up with leverage.

Can someone with more NFL knowledge than me come up with a list of tall - 6' 6"+ guards who were successful?

Second question - what is wrong with playing guards at guard and tackles at tackle?

mexican_texan
01-01-2007, 02:12 PM
Gary Kubiak.

This all stated from the mouth of Kubiak many weeks ago on his radio show. He was the one who stated that the injury could be one he may not come back from....and that he would be monitoring it closely since it was worse than they expected at first glance.
Ah, did not remember that, thanks.

He did say that weeks ago, though. I'll take McClain's word.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
01-01-2007, 02:19 PM
At 6-4, 352 he is certainly big enough, is there an issue with his speed or mechanics that I am not aware of?

If it is a foregone conclusion that they are going to make the switch, does anyone know if there are going to be any premiere left tackles available in free agency?

Some people are acting like we can just run to Kroger and pick up a Jonathon Ogden, or find a clone of D'Brickashaw Ferguson with the eigth pick. :shades:


As for FA I think the LT for the AZ cards. is a FA this year but I might be wrong on the position who ever it is its the Cards best o-lineman and most think he's not worth it due to how bad that line is.

Kaiser Toro
01-01-2007, 02:23 PM
Carr's total cap liability is around $5.2 million whether he is traded or released.

Do you have a contact to confirm that one? I have assumed that the 8m signing bonus would be 3 years at 2.667m per, but looking at HPF he has it down as 2m in 2006 and 2007 which would lead one to believe that we would have 4m in 2008. However, I read somewhere that we had 2m of the 8m go against another year and we will pay 2m 2006-2008.

The entire hit counts in the current year if he is traded.

It can be split over two years if he is a post-June 1 release (unlikely) or a player designated for release prior to the beginning of the new league year - on or around March 1 - in order to gain the post-June 1 cap benefit in accordance with the new CBA (more likely if he is released and not traded).

Can you define what the entire hit is (salary/signing bonus allocation)?

I was under the impression that we would have to account for the salary of 2007 and signing bonus allocated for this year, 2m, with 2008 getting dinged at 2m as well.

CowboysTexansFan
01-01-2007, 02:27 PM
As for FA I think the LT for the AZ cards. is a FA this year but I might be wrong on the position who ever it is its the Cards best o-lineman and most think he's not worth it due to how bad that line is.

The Cards' LT is a fat, lazy underachiever who may be let go by the team despite their horrible O-line and the fact that he cost the team the #2 overall pick years ago. He is not worth the money he will want to come sign here.

Goldeagle
01-01-2007, 02:34 PM
Flanigan was a joke at Center and a joke to sign. Has not even played a full year in the last 3.

McKinney at Center and Hodgen back him up.

LT: Draft, FA, or Spencer
LG: Pitts
C: McKinney, Hodgen
RG: STEINBACH or DOCKERY, Weary, Winston
RT: Winston, FA, Draft

aj.
01-01-2007, 02:40 PM
Do you have a contact to confirm that one? I have assumed that the 8m signing bonus would be 3 years at 2.667m per, but looking at HPF he has it down as 2m in 2006 and 2007 which would lead one to believe that we would have 4m in 2008..

I divided 8 by 3 in my head and got 'about' 2.6. Then I considered the two years remaining on his deal and got 5.2. Not sure why Keith is showing $2,006,160 for '06 and '07. You could email him and find out. It's probably more likely that they were able to account for some on the '05 cap as opposed to having an unequal proration over the three years. In other words, if he's showing $2,006,160 for '06 and '07, that's probably what it is in '08 too. If that's the case, that's great because the remaining prorated bonus amount is only slightly above 4 million instead of about $5.2.


Can you define what the entire hit is (salary/signing bonus allocation)?

I was under the impression that we would have to account for the salary of 2007 and signing bonus allocated for this year, 2m, with 2008 getting dinged for 2008 at 2m.

Only the remaining prorated signing bonus accelerates when a player is traded or waived. Future LTBE incentives probably also count - I can't recall that off the top of my head. Carr's '07 base has no bearing on the Texans cap unless he's on the roster going into Week 1.

dat_boy_yec
01-01-2007, 02:42 PM
Okay, I'll pre-face this by saying. I hope Spencer makes a full recovery and comes back with full health next yr. as our starting LT. Having said that what I've heard is that he has dropped down to the 320-330 lbs. area and is doing light running. McClain said he is recovering nicely, but that is an opinion because it's just a descriptive word and nicely will vary from person to person. What would have helped more would be if he is on schedule to make a full recovery or ahead of schedule. This information may be forthcoming in the coming weeks, but I for one hope he comes back in full health and we draft a solid swing tackle in the draft to replace Salaam.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
01-01-2007, 02:42 PM
The Cards' LT is a fat, lazy underachiever who may be let go by the team despite their horrible O-line and the fact that he cost the team the #2 overall pick years ago. He is not worth the money he will want to come sign here.

Noted. All I was doing was answering a Question as to if there were any LT coming out in FA and the one that came to mind was the guy from AZ. Shot I dont even know his name.

OzzO
01-01-2007, 04:37 PM
I divided 8 by 3 in my head and got 'about' 2.6. Then I considered the two years remaining on his deal and got 5.2. ..

Here's McClain's version (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2006/12/what_to_do_with_carr_is_the_qu.html)..
Now, many of you have asked about Carr's contract. In March, the Texans gave him $8 million to secure him for three more years: 2006, 2007 and 2008. They were extremely shrewd go exercise the option before the deadline so they could take a $2 million cap hit off the prorated portion of the bonus. That means the bonus is prorated at $2 million in 2006, $2 million 2007 and $2 million in 2008.

Teams don't have to wait until June 1 to get the June 1 benefits of the salary cap. They can't trade or waive two players before June 1 and still get the benefit. The rules say that if you get rid of a player before June 1, everything left on his cap, including the prorated signing bonus, comes out of this year's cap. If you wait until after June 1, only the 2006 portion counts against this year's cap and everything else rolls into the next year.

That means that if the Texans trade Carr, he'll count $7.25 million under this fiscal year's cap -- $5.25 million base and the $2 million prorated bonus. The rest of what he's owed would come out of next year's cap.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Spencer thread, already in process....

I'm hoping he's back. With McClain seeing improvement and Spencer's friend coming on the board a while back saying the same, Im going the more optimistic route. McClain hosts the morning show tomorrow (1/2) on 610 - someone give him a ring-a-ding and ask. (Oh, and he's gonna have Kolb and his agent in studio at 7:30.) Oops, almost thread hi-jacked it again.

aj.
01-01-2007, 04:42 PM
Here's McClain's version (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2006/12/what_to_do_with_carr_is_the_qu.html)..
They were extremely shrewd go exercise the option before the deadline so they could take a $2 million cap hit off the prorated portion of the bonus. That means the bonus is prorated at $2 million in 2006, $2 million 2007 and $2 million in 2008.



Okay, that explains it .... and it means there's only 4 million left of Carr's bonus to deal with capwise if he is cut or traded. No biggie at all.

Thanks for the info. I do remember that now...

He doesn't do a very good job of trying to explain the post-June 1 (or pre March 1 designation of two players for post-June 1 benefit) rule...

threetoedpete
01-01-2007, 04:50 PM
Leonard Davis.. And no I'm not in a homeless shelter. I just heard it again reported by the commentators of the game that the injury was not routine. This is two out of three weeks it's been brought up by the out of town TV crew. They're getting their stuff from some where. Smoke screen ? Maybe their getting a sheet from one of the staff and it keeps getting cut copied and pasted to the info directors sheet. Maybe their info is four weeks old. Why the info guy would risk his gig doing this is beyond me. You lose your rep in the NFL, you're pretty much toast. Tells me, someone is putting the info on Spencer's injury out there. But, it's not nothing. Wether it's being created by Rick Smith or Hollywood John is reaching, that's up to you to decide. Old saying from where I come from is where there's smoke there's fire.



What your comprehensive list are showing me is that the offensive tackle positon, as it has been for five years, is an acute problem. The GM said in his comments today we're moving down. A lot of you guys better brace yourselves for some shock come January is all I'm going to say. Some of our darlin' picks could be sliding on by come draft day.

tburdette
01-01-2007, 04:55 PM
If Spencer is going to be fine, we may have a chance to do something. Let's assume Russell comes out...bla,bla,bla....

1.) Is it remotely possible that the Texans could trade Carr to the Raiders simply to move up in the draft? David and the 8th pick to the Raiders? (Probably not but here's to hope!)

If we could somehow move up and get Joe Thomas.

LT - Thomas
LG - Pitts
C - Weary/ McKinney
RG - Winston (Who BTW has looked pretty darn good!)
RT - Spencer

That OL has some promise! Of course, it would be ironic to trade David for the final piece in the OL.

If somehow the above situation did occur who do you propose be our starting QB?

threetoedpete
01-01-2007, 05:01 PM
Simple as ABC. Anybody But Carr.

Texans_Chick
01-01-2007, 05:09 PM
The Texans and moreso the fans like to talk about Winston at guard. At 6'7" he's pretty tall for that position - I think. The shorter, stronger DTs would have a big advantage over him because they could get under his pads easier and blow him up with leverage.

Can someone with more NFL knowledge than me come up with a list of tall - 6' 6"+ guards who were successful?

Second question - what is wrong with playing guards at guard and tackles at tackle?

Stop making sense around here.

Really, I suggest emailing John McClain that question. Seriously. He reads his emails. I don't really see Winston at Guard. I know there was some noise about arm length from Kubiak.

As for Flanagan, I seem to recall he was signed for a 3 year contract and I want to say I read something at the time like that was a typical Sherman signing--too much money for someone that he likes.

Second Honeymoon
01-01-2007, 05:20 PM
Stop making sense around here.

Really, I suggest emailing John McClain that question. Seriously. He reads his emails. I don't really see Winston at Guard. I know there was some noise about arm length from Kubiak.

As for Flanagan, I seem to recall he was signed for a 3 year contract and I want to say I read something at the time like that was a typical Sherman signing--too much money for someone that he likes.

He is a bit light and tall to be a Guard but more importantly, its not a position that he has played much if at all. He was a Tight End when he was recruited out of Odessa by Miami.

I think he would be a good RT but probably not a top Tier LT. Hes looked promising in the past few weeks so we should keep it simple with him during his formative years.

Hope you enjoyed your accolades yesterday, I was sorry I had to sell my tickets or I could have seen that go down. The Super Bowl should be a freakin blast and its a deserved honor. Maybe you can tagalong with McClain so you can meet a bunch of people and namedrop with the same frequency he does :)

here is to hoping you dont namedrop like him *drinks a brew*

aj.
01-01-2007, 05:45 PM
fwiw, I've always thought Winston is too long for G. But there's a lot of things on this board that I don't chime in on for whatever reason, so I just kind of avoided that discussion ...

thunderkyss
01-01-2007, 05:52 PM
Weary was the best C in his draft class and has played fairly well at OG.

Flanagan was one of the biggest dissapointments for us last year. He pretty much sucked it up and couldn't hold his own at the POA. He got no drive and could not turn his hip to seal a lane. He came out with good punch, but was back on his heels too much. Hodgen looked no better to say the least. IMO, we either draft at top C or move Weary over.

Weary is a better Guard than Mckinney.

McKinney is a better Center than Flanagan/Hogdon.

I still believe we should draft another Center(McKinney is kinda old) & another Tackle.... let Spencer, Winston, and the new guy compete for the LT spot.. & the RT spot.. nothing wrong with Good players getting beat out by better players.... makes for good depth.

The Pencil Neck
01-01-2007, 05:53 PM
As for Flanagan, I seem to recall he was signed for a 3 year contract and I want to say I read something at the time like that was a typical Sherman signing--too much money for someone that he likes.

OTOH, we'll be able to trade Flanagan and Gado to the Cards once Sherman starts coaching there. Since he likes him, we'll probably make out like bandits.

nunusguy
01-01-2007, 06:11 PM
Second question - what is wrong with playing guards at guard and tackles at tackle?

As you know, the tackle position is more demanding than
the guard position because that position requires a better athlete to pass block the edge rushers. And a lot of college tackles can't cut it at that position in the NFL, so they end up being demoted to the inside. And that's the problem with Winston from what I hear.
But as you say, it would seem his height might be a disadvantage against the
short, squat type DTs. Unfortunately for Winston, he's tall and lanky while not having good length in his arms, which is a physical short coming for pass blocking.

TexansJunkE
01-01-2007, 06:35 PM
Weary to Center? Helloooo! We have Flanagan, one of the best centers in the league, unless he is a FA next year????...

Flangan has too many miles on him, I think this is a must need in the draft that we have failed to reconignize. We need to draft a nasty center to anchor the O-line.:ok:

DRAMA
01-01-2007, 09:12 PM
I don't think Winston will be playing RG. If you go back and look at Winston play, he actually looks good. His feet move pretty well especially when moving people to his left. Everyone needs time to get better (Except I guess, freaking Demeco Ryans!!) and I think Winston got a solid shot at RT in 2007.

As for the earlier post about a starting QB, I think Rosenfels will be fine 'managing' the club. There are always backup QB's out there that can be had or maybe you do trade for a Feeley or a Kitna again, to manage the club. Unless you have a franchise QB, it's the same guy back there. What baffles me is that everyone else's backups or one time backups (Cleve-Andersen, Phi-Feeley, DAL - Romo, KC-Huard, Chi-Griese, Den-Cutler, Ariz-Leinart, etc...) can ALL come in and throw for 250-350 and 2-3 TD's every now and then...some more than that.

I'm not a big Carr fan really but a 300 yard-2-3 TD game every now and again would be nice, ya know. So, as for our QB...what does it matter really? They most likely will be able to manage the game and throw some TD's. Most NFL QB's can make the average throws. In Houston, we look at the avg completion as a 'turning point' in a QB's career.

"We need to redefine the nature of our association!"

Texian
01-01-2007, 10:02 PM
If I recall, Flanagan was brought in to help teach the ZBS.

McCain is a respected journalist, I don't think he would be flippant about Spencer's injury. I suspect he got the info from a credible source like, Kubiak, trainer, Spencer, FO.

utahmark
01-01-2007, 10:04 PM
Weary to Center? Helloooo! We have Flanagan, one of the best centers in the league, unless he is a FA next year????...

he wasnt playing like one of the best centers in the league this year. at least not early in the year. i got tired of paying much attention to him after the first few games.

Texian
01-01-2007, 10:29 PM
(Kubiak on T Charles Spencer-01/01/07) “You guys know what I think of Charles. I think we were on to a kid that was going to play left tackle for this organization for a long, long time and be very, very good. The most disappointing thing was losing that kid. I’ve said, I’ve told you that all along. Here’s the situation where he’s a very significant injury and as you’re doing well he’s doing great. Saw him yesterday morning before the game he was down in the pool and running on the treadmill in the pool. All that is very, very positive. If we go to solidify this offensive line, which we’ve had a hard time holding together in front of that process we say, ‘Well Charles is going to be back. He’s going to be 100 percent. He’s going to be fine.’ If we operate that way we’re not going to get better because we aren’t addressing the problem. So we’ve got to move forward and I’m sure counting on Charles and I hope he’s there ready to go full speed. Because if he is we’re going to be better, but we’ve got to operate assuming that he may not happen

texman8
01-01-2007, 10:43 PM
(Kubiak on T Charles Spencer-01/01/07) You guys know what I think of Charles. I think we were on to a kid that was going to play left tackle for this organization for a long, long time and be very, very good. The most disappointing thing was losing that kid. Ive said, Ive told you that all along. Heres the situation where hes a very significant injury and as youre doing well hes doing great. Saw him yesterday morning before the game he was down in the pool and running on the treadmill in the pool. All that is very, very positive. If we go to solidify this offensive line, which weve had a hard time holding together in front of that process we say, Well Charles is going to be back. Hes going to be 100 percent. Hes going to be fine. If we operate that way were not going to get better because we arent addressing the problem. So weve got to move forward and Im sure counting on Charles and I hope hes there ready to go full speed. Because if he is were going to be better, but weve got to operate assuming that he may not happen


Sounds like Kubiak wants to be positive about Spencer....knows Texans' OL is not set(funny) we can use some better OL.