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TEXANS84
01-01-2007, 09:34 AM
Not a good stat to be the winner in:

AFC Leaders: Passes Dropped (Thru Dec. 31, 2006)

Rank Player Team Stats
1 Andre Johnson Hou 11
2t Chris Chambers Mia 8
2t Braylon Edwards Cle 8
2t Randy McMichael Mia 8
2t Randy Moss Oak 8
2t Reggie Williams Jac 8
7t Marvin Harrison Ind 7
7t Dennis Northcutt Cle 7
7t Reggie Wayne Ind 7
10t Jerricho Cotchery NYJ 6
10t Benjamin Watson NE 6
12t Derek Hagan Mia 5
12t Chris Henry Cin 5
12t Chad Johnson Cin 5
12t Larry Johnson KC 5
12t Brandon Jones Ten 5
12t Matt Jones Jac 5
12t Javon Walker Den 5
12t George Wrighster Jac 5
20t Courtney Anderson Oak 4
20t Drew Bennett Ten 4
20t Marty Booker Mia 4
20t Mark Clayton Bal 4
20t Antonio Gates SD 4
20t Chad Jackson NE 4
20t Eddie Kennison KC 4
20t Laurence Maroney NE 4
20t LaDainian Tomlinson SD 4
20t Ben Troupe Ten 4
20t Nate Washington Pit 4
20t Wes Welker Mia 4
20t Alvis Whitted Oak 4
20t Cedrick Wilson Pit 4
20t Kellen Winslow Cle 4
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=2006&range=AFC&type=Receiving&rank=232

Texanator14
01-01-2007, 09:50 AM
He's probably been targeted more than the other receivers.

dtran04
01-01-2007, 09:56 AM
To be fair, T.O. is actually #1 (for the entire NFL). :)

Vinny
01-01-2007, 09:59 AM
He's probably been targeted more than the other receivers.
I notice he has a ton more receptions than most of the players on that list too. Stats alone with no context are no good for anything. He will drop some passes but he also catches a ton of passes underneath the linebacker drops...I'm not sure any primary WR in the NFL catches as many passes with linebackers in his face due to the inordinate amount of short passes that we are forced to watch in this offense that has no intermediate passing game (this means larger and more physical men are hitting Andre on a regular basis as opposed to smaller secondary guys). Andre seems to have to stop a lot to catch many of his balls.

mike moffat
01-01-2007, 10:00 AM
To be fair, T.O. is actually #1 (for the entire NFL). :)

Yes, indeed. Talk about a $25M drop? But, as most of you know, I agree with Joe Thiesman. T.O. is a bum and shouldn't be playing professional football.

Imatexanfan
01-01-2007, 10:00 AM
I don't believe that. I seen Bennett from the Titans drop 3 yesterday.

jerek
01-01-2007, 10:04 AM
I notice he has a ton more receptions than most of the players on that list too. Stats alone with no context are no good for anything. He will drop some passes but he also catches a ton of passes underneath the linebacker drops...I'm not sure any primary WR in the NFL catches as many passes with linebackers in his face due to the inordinate amount of short passes that we are forced to watch in this offense that has no intermediate passing game (this means larger and more physical men are hitting Andre on a regular basis as opposed to smaller secondary guys). Andre seems to have to stop a lot to catch many of his balls.

That is a good point though I've always felt Andre drops a few too many balls. It is useful however to put the stat into context; I wonder if anyone has access to drops per receptions, or drops per times thrown at? My guess would be that AJ is still highly ranked in that category.

I'm not sure exactly how drops are calculated here statistically -- i.e. does the ball need to hit him in the fingertips? If it was a bad throw that the WR still got his hands on, is it still a drop? I've seen AJ drop what I considered to be some gimmes (and occasionally at crucial times) but knowing that all WRs drop balls at one time or another, I'm not sure what is a reasonable expectation, statistically speaking.

Roughnecks
01-01-2007, 10:11 AM
Yea what is the ratio of drops to passes thrown to I would think it would be pretty good. Besides drops are part of the game AJ is at this point the besi player on offense. Ask yourself would I want AJ with his 11 drops or TO and his ego I take AJ.

axman40
01-01-2007, 10:17 AM
Here is the list you should have used:

NFL Leaders: Passes Dropped (Thru Dec. 31, 2006)
RankPlayerTeamStats1Terrell Owens (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=3664&team=06)Dal (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=06)172t Darrell Jackson (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5109&team=26)Sea (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=26)112t Andre Johnson (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6339&team=34)Hou (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=34)112t Troy Williamson (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7183&team=16)Min (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=16)115Steve Smith (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5521&team=29)Car (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=29)106Reggie Brown (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7211&team=21)Phi (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=21)97t Reggie Bush (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7751&team=18)NO (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=18)87t Chris Chambers (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5499&team=15)Mia (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=15)87t Braylon Edwards (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7179&team=05)Cle (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=05)87t Bubba Franks (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5043&team=09)GB (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=09)87t Devery Henderson (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6809&team=18)NO (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=18)87t Randy McMichael (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6000&team=15)Mia (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=15)87t Randy Moss (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=4262&team=13)Oak (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=13)87t Reggie Williams (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6768&team=30)Jac (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=30)815t Alge Crumpler (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5482&team=01)Atl (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=01)715t Donald Driver (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=4863&team=09)GB (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=09)715t Joey Galloway (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=3135&team=27)TB (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=27)715t Ahman Green (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=4261&team=09)GB (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=09)715t Marvin Harrison (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=3514&team=11)Ind (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=11)715t Dennis Northcutt (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5061&team=05)Cle (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=05)715t Reggie Wayne (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5477&team=11)Ind (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=11)715t Roddy White (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7203&team=01)Atl (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/teamstats.asp?team=01)7
:tease:

edo783
01-01-2007, 11:59 AM
Nothing we didn't know about AJ. He drops more than he should, but he also makes some catches that he shouldn't. Seems to have, dare I say it, a bit of Cory Bradford in him. Makes the jaw dropping circus catch and will drop the easy, in the hands ones at times. Just part of the package and you hope the drops don't come at really bad times.

Vinny
01-01-2007, 12:04 PM
Comparing Andre Johnson and Cory Bradford is kinda ridiculous...no offense Ed. Bradford was never even a reliable WR2 in this league.

mexican_texan
01-01-2007, 12:30 PM
Not to drag David Carr into it, but the passing game.

Notice how the top droppers don't have a great QB situation?

MrMeToo
01-01-2007, 12:38 PM
I notice he has a ton more receptions than most of the players on that list too. Stats alone with no context are no good for anything. He will drop some passes but he also catches a ton of passes underneath the linebacker drops...I'm not sure any primary WR in the NFL catches as many passes with linebackers in his face due to the inordinate amount of short passes that we are forced to watch in this offense that has no intermediate passing game (this means larger and more physical men are hitting Andre on a regular basis as opposed to smaller secondary guys). Andre seems to have to stop a lot to catch many of his balls.

I agree.But was this thread really needed.Andre is a great player and a pro bowler.He didn't drop any passes in the last 2 games and made a clutch catch in the Colts game which is a knock on him.

Goldeagle
01-01-2007, 01:28 PM
I agree.But was this thread really needed.Andre is a great player and a pro bowler.He didn't drop any passes in the last 2 games and made a clutch catch in the Colts game which is a knock on him.



All his catches were in garbage time though lol

:tease:

TEXANS84
01-01-2007, 01:35 PM
He didn't drop any passes in the last 2 games and made a clutch catch in the Colts game which is a knock on him.

I watched him clank one off his chest yesterday.

edo783
01-01-2007, 01:38 PM
Comparing Andre Johnson and Cory Bradford is kinda ridiculous...no offense Ed. Bradford was never even a reliable WR2 in this league.

Oh I know that. Just comparing the make the hard and drop the easy thing. Bradford can't hold AJs jock strap, but they both have the propensity to make the triple back flip with a half twist one hand grab and then turn around and drop one that hits them in the hands. Bradford much more than AJ, but they both have done it.

Texas_Thrill
01-01-2007, 01:46 PM
I mean what is the point of this thread really? So are you telling me you want to get rid of AJ?

Be happy we have a player of his quality. I think he's doing great for how predictable our offense usually is.

TEXANS84
01-01-2007, 01:49 PM
I mean what is the point of this thread really? So are you telling me you want to get rid of AJ?


Absolutely not. But is it not ok to critique players?
Carr has been taken to get hung, yet other players get a free pass? There would be an 8 page thread if carr lead the leauge in interceptions.

AJ dropped passes. It needs to be addressed.

Tulip
01-01-2007, 10:32 PM
I'm hearing here at home that someone does keep stats on the percentage of dropped passes (versus time thrown to). I would like to see those stats.

TexansSeminole
01-01-2007, 10:35 PM
Stat doesn't mean much to me really. Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison (two probowlers with a future HOF QB) both have 7.

We all know he drops more passes than we would like but so do the other receivers that made it to the Pro Bowl.

trublu
01-01-2007, 10:38 PM
To be fair, T.O. is actually #1 (for the entire NFL). :)

He also has the most recieving TDs in the entire NFL.

MrMeToo
01-01-2007, 10:48 PM
He also has the most recieving TDs in the entire NFL.

Andre doesn't get nearly as many TD chances as TO in the red zone...

TexansSeminole
01-01-2007, 10:50 PM
Andre doesn't get nearly as many TD chances as TO in the red zone...

aka competent QB

TexanLen
01-01-2007, 10:59 PM
Trade A.J!!!

:joker:

jayjordan
01-02-2007, 03:25 AM
look at the qb situation for the players at the top of the list

Texan_Bill
01-02-2007, 09:16 AM
Not a good stat to be the winner in:

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=2006&range=AFC&type=Receiving&rank=232

Interesting, but I would like to see a comparison of those receivers v. AJ and the percentage of their respective offenses that each contributed to...

Hulk75
01-02-2007, 10:11 AM
Comparing Andre Johnson and Cory Bradford is kinda ridiculous...no offense Ed. Bradford was never even a reliable WR2 in this league.

But yet he was our #2 for 3+ years.Dre drops too many way too many, he agravates me to NO end. Dre did not even want to be on the field on Sunday, his Hawaii ticket was burning a hole in his pockett.

But thats fine he leads the AFC in dropped passes, but thats okay.

What ticked me off on Sunday was that on one of the deep outs the CB cut off Dre and since he cut him off instead of finishing the route and fighting for the ball he stops, and if the ball was not thrown were only Dre could have gotten it it would have been picked off, AND lets not forget the slant he dropped that he could have caught on 3rd down and got the first, the CB Fell off, the Saftey over played it and all he had to do was catch the football, thats comming up big.

Roughnecks
01-02-2007, 10:47 AM
In a fareness he catch's lots of balls in traffic and some of his drops he either has a guy drape all over him or DC is throwing the ball like it is fired out of a canon and at five yards that is hard to catch. I know everyone is allowed to be talked about but this is out of hand next we are going to talk about how Ryans should have more tackels if omly he tried a lot harder come on. If anyone is even thinking we would be better off with TO and his drops but his TD get reall he would destroy what team we have left.

dalemurphy
01-02-2007, 10:52 AM
In a fareness he catch's lots of balls in traffic and some of his drops he either has a guy drape all over him or DC is throwing the ball like it is fired out of a canon and at five yards that is hard to catch. I know everyone is allowed to be talked about but this is out of hand next we are going to talk about how Ryans should have more tackels if omly he tried a lot harder come on. If anyone is even thinking we would be better off with TO and his drops but his TD get reall he would destroy what team we have left.

The dropped pass statistic does not count plays where the WR is separated from the ball by a defender. By definition, a dropped pass in this context, is when a receiver clearly should have caught the ball and didn't... AJ clearly has a problem with this. He also has too many games where he isn't aggressive enough in fighting for balls. None of that is to say that he's not a very good WR. However, it's an area he definitely needs to work on.

Dre_80
01-02-2007, 11:09 AM
those stats are pretty useless. thats like saying a CB sucks because he doesnt get 10 interceptions a year :listening

MrMeToo
01-02-2007, 12:50 PM
But yet he was our #2 for 3+ years.Dre drops too many way too many, he agravates me to NO end. Dre did not even want to be on the field on Sunday, his Hawaii ticket was burning a hole in his pockett.

But thats fine he leads the AFC in dropped passes, but thats okay.

What ticked me off on Sunday was that on one of the deep outs the CB cut off Dre and since he cut him off instead of finishing the route and fighting for the ball he stops, and if the ball was not thrown were only Dre could have gotten it it would have been picked off, AND lets not forget the slant he dropped that he could have caught on 3rd down and got the first, the CB Fell off, the Saftey over played it and all he had to do was catch the football, thats comming up big.


I wouldn't want to be on the field either if I had a QB that sucks and rarely throws me the ball. Andre is a major talent, depite a few drops.

Vinny
01-02-2007, 12:55 PM
Dre drops too many way too many, he agravates me to NO end. Dre did not even want to be on the field on Sunday, his Hawaii ticket was burning a hole in his pockett.
nice cheap shot at Andre Johnson....don't get so uptight when someone does the same to your Brother.

eric138
01-02-2007, 12:55 PM
AFC Leaders: Big Catches (Thru Dec. 31, 2006)


Rank Player Team Stats
1 Marvin Harrison Ind 12
2t Chad Johnson Cin 11
2t Javon Walker Den 11
4t Antonio Gates SD 10
4t Reggie Wayne Ind 10
6t Drew Bennett Ten 9
6t Lee Evans Buf 9
6t T.J. Houshmandzadeh Cin 9
6t Eddie Kennison KC 9
10 Santonio Holmes Pit 8
11t Marty Booker Mia 7
11t Mark Clayton Bal 7
11t Braylon Edwards Cle 7
11t Tony Gonzalez KC 7
11t Andre Johnson Hou 7
11t Hines Ward Pit 7
11t Nate Washington Pit 7
11t Wes Welker Mia 7
19t Laveranues Coles NYJ 6
19t Jerricho Cotchery NYJ 6
19t Chris Henry Cin 6
19t Vincent Jackson SD 6
19t Matt Jones Jac 6
19t Eric Parker SD 6
19t Tony Scheffler Den 6
19t Benjamin Watson NE 6
19t Reggie Williams Jac 6

TexansSeminole
01-02-2007, 03:32 PM
But yet he was our #2 for 3+ years.Dre drops too many way too many, he agravates me to NO end. Dre did not even want to be on the field on Sunday, his Hawaii ticket was burning a hole in his pockett.

Dude what? I dont have the numbers but I'd say half the time Carr threw at Andre Johnson a damn octopus couldn't have gotten a limb on the ball (in the Cleveland game).

TEXANS84
01-02-2007, 03:42 PM
Dude what? I dont have the numbers but I'd say half the time Carr threw at Andre Johnson a damn octopus couldn't have gotten a limb on the ball (in the Cleveland game).

I watched a pass bounce squarely off his chest in the Cleveland game in my end zone.

eriadoc
01-02-2007, 03:43 PM
AJ had a 6.7% drop percentage. Chad Johnson, to compare, had a 3.3% drop percentage. Harrison had a 4.7% drop percentage. TJ Houshmandzadeh was better than all three.

He was 3rd in Yards After Catch for the AFC (1st among WRs).

He was 1st in AFC for total targets at 164. Chambers had 154, CJohnson had 152.

AJ caught 10 passes inside the opponents' red zone. That was tied for 5th in the AFC. Those ahead of him: Harrison (14), TJ Houshmandzadeh (12), and Hines Ward (11). TO in the NFC had 14, Steve Smith had 10, Donald Driver had 9, Fitzgerald had 8, Coles had 8, Chad Johnson had 6, etc.

AJ had 55 catches for 1st downs. Harrison had 78, Wayne had 72, CJohnson had 66, to compare.

For a guy who caught a lot of passes, he could have placed better in a few categories. For all the dinking and dunking this offense did, I would have thought he'd have more first downs. He got comparable red zone opportunities to his peers, yet fewer TDs than you would have expected.

Nonetheless, they are great numbers upon which to build. If he can improve with the rest of the team, things will be great.

TexansSeminole
01-02-2007, 03:59 PM
I watched a pass bounce squarely off his chest in the Cleveland game in my end zone.

That's one of the only catchable balls that was thrown to him that game. Probably wasn't expecting it. He still needs to be ready for that.

Fiddy
01-02-2007, 04:45 PM
Randy Moss missed a couple of games and didnt see the ball nearly as much as AJ and had 8 drops.

AJ had about 1 drop for every 10 catches...big deal.

Does Reggie Wayne have better hands??? Wayne had 86 catches and 8 drops, about 1 drop for every 10 catches...once again, big deal.

Lucky
01-02-2007, 06:16 PM
Does Reggie Wayne have better hands???
Yes, Reggie Wayne has better hands.

mexican_texan
01-02-2007, 08:47 PM
Yes, Reggie Wayne has better hands.
Also, though just a coincidence, a much better QB.

SamuraiSword
01-03-2007, 12:48 AM
To be fair, T.O. is actually #1 (for the entire NFL). :)

I despise T.O. I however wouldn't mind him being in my fantasy football league.

:D

Fiddy
01-03-2007, 02:39 AM
Yes, Reggie Wayne has better hands. Then why on an average of catches made does AJ and Wayne have about the same numbers??? I think Wayne has better hands, too, but he drops the ball just as much as AJ.

shinerbock_girl
01-03-2007, 04:07 AM
GEEEZZZZ, now we're picking apart Andre too....:dontknowa

edo783
01-03-2007, 08:59 AM
GEEEZZZZ, now we're picking apart Andre too....:dontknowa

Yup, the fan base is just a bunch of cannibals. We feed on our own.

The Pencil Neck
01-03-2007, 10:51 AM
Yup, the fan base is just a bunch of cannibals. We feed on our own.


Lots of protein, low on carbs.

TheOgre
01-03-2007, 11:49 AM
Lets look at the entire NFL
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

Rank Player Team Stats
1 Terrell Owens Dal 17
2t Darrell Jackson Sea 11
2t Andre Johnson Hou 11
2t Troy Williamson Min 11
5 Steve Smith Car 10
6 Reggie Brown Phi 9
7t Reggie Bush NO 8
7t Chris Chambers Mia 8
7t Donald Driver GB 8
7t Braylon Edwards Cle 8
7t Bubba Franks GB 8
7t Joey Galloway TB 8
7t Devery Henderson NO 8
7t Randy McMichael Mia 8
7t Randy Moss Oak 8
7t Reggie Wayne Ind 8
7t Reggie Williams Jac 8
18t Alge Crumpler Atl 7
18t Ahman Green GB 7
18t Marvin Harrison Ind 7
18t Torry Holt StL 7
18t Dennis Northcutt Cle 7
18t Michael Pittman TB 7
18t Roddy White Atl 7

Now that is more like it.

eriadoc
01-03-2007, 11:55 AM
So basically, if it weren't for one really drop-prone WR, AJ would be at the top of the list. Got it.

AJ drops too many balls. Those that deny it or try to overlook it are fooling themselves. That doesn't mean he's not a good WR and deserves to be blasted. Some of us would like to see him work on his hands, but on the whole, he's a top notch WR that would be starting for 32 teams in the NFL. I think many of us believe AJ can do better, so we expect it.

On a different note, Darrell Jackson has been at the top of the drops list almost every year he's been in the league. I'm not sure I could handle that as a fan. I know the guy's good, but ..... yikes.

Runner
01-03-2007, 12:24 PM
On a different note, Darrell Jackson has been at the top of the drops list almost every year he's been in the league. I'm not sure I could handle that as a fan. I know the guy's good, but ..... yikes.

It's a matter of perspective. Two drops every three games or so probably goes almost unnoticed on a winning team (Jackson/Seahawks) but is greatly maginfied on a losing team that constantly struggles on offense (Johnson/Texans).

eriadoc
01-03-2007, 12:43 PM
It's a matter of perspective. Two drops every three games or so probably goes almost unnoticed on a winning team (Jackson/Seahawks) but is greatly maginfied un a losing team that constantly struggles on offense (Johnson/Texans).

Yeah, that's probably true. I remember a couple years ago, though, Jackson and Robinson combined for 27 drops and the fans were screaming about it. At least Robinson is now elsewhere.