PDA

View Full Version : Anybody Here Read Jerome Solomon?


TexansFanatic
12-28-2006, 10:26 PM
I would have to agree with the following from Jerome Solomon of the Chron:

"When put in situations where the team needs its quarterback to make a play, the Texans have morphed into a team that just gives up most of the time. Again, that's good coaching, but it's not winning football over the long haul. If the Colts could tackle, the game might not have been close.

Third-and-8 from the Indy 47 with a seven-point, third-quarter lead, is not the time to throw the ball to Mark Bruener four yards behind the line of scrimmage.

Third-and-9 from the Indy 27 with a four-point, fourth-quarter lead, is not the time to send Kevin Walter on a faux reverse and give the ball to Chris Taylor up the gut, especially with Eric Moulds and Andre Johnson not even asked to run pass patterns to loosen up the defense. Block down boys, you're nothing but extra linemen with Carr at QB.

Those two plays failed, and could have cost the Texans the game. Not every play is going to work, we understand that, but when you limit your playbook because your quarterback isn't any good, you need a new quarterback. If you limit your playbook to the number of plays you can write on a matchbook cover because you have no confidence in your quarterback, you need a new quarterback.

Heed the advice of Bill Belichick: "You have to put players out there that you have confidence in and believe in. If you don't, they shouldn't be out there. You should find somebody else that you can feel that way about." "

LINK (http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2006/12/want_the_truth_about_carrs_pla.html)

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2006, 10:46 PM
please provide a link, thanks

dtran04
12-28-2006, 10:54 PM
The Texans also ran the ball successfully MULTIPLE times on 3rd and long. Where's the complaining about that?

phan1
12-28-2006, 11:19 PM
He's a pretty good writer; I like what he writes about. Unlike that Richard Justice guy. I don't know how he got a job covering the Texans in the first place.

wrestler4life
12-28-2006, 11:39 PM
I have to say taht he makes a good argument. The fact that Carr has not shown any big play ability says something. He cannot make things happen, which even a Qb with a bad line should be able to do, if even periodically.

TexanSam
12-28-2006, 11:40 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2006/12/want_the_truth_about_carrs_pla.html

The link to Solomon's blog. He brings up very good points.

HJam72
12-29-2006, 12:41 AM
Am I the only one who sees opinions being affected by race here? I wonder what percentage of the VY lovers (ie Carr haters) are black. Obviously, not all of them, but I wonder. I know Moon was hated on by some white people for a while and now I think I'm seeing some of the opposite.

I think we need a thread about Carr that only non-Caucasion and non-black people can post in. That would be interesting. Oh, and no teenage girls drooling on Carr's hair.

We might want to keep out certain alumni as well.

Goldeagle
12-29-2006, 12:48 AM
Well....he made that pass to AJ to secure the win?

He dove for the TD against Jax to win

He scrambled 20 yards with a bad arm to secure the win against Atlanta.

He has made the plays (and has missed some, but Ive watched fumbles that were not his fault and dropped passes as well), but the media in this town want revenge on the Texans not taking VY.

kbourda
12-29-2006, 01:18 AM
Am I the only one who sees opinions being affected by race here? I wonder what percentage of the VY lovers (ie Carr haters) are black. Obviously, not all of them, but I wonder. I know Moon was hated on by some white people for a while and now I think I'm seeing some of the opposite.

I think we need a thread about Carr that only non-Caucasion and non-black people can post in. That would be interesting. Oh, and no teenage girls drooling on Carr's hair.

We might want to keep out certain alumni as well.


Some perspective. Moon and Carr are no where near the same type of QB. I'm
a black man that thought Moon was overrated. I'm a black man that thinks Carr is overrated. Opinions based on race? I think Carr has done a good job on his own creating this disdain people have for him. Carr's inability to read a defense has little to do with him being white but more to the fact that he isn't that good anyway. But I guess by Carr having that credential of his whiteness trumps all knowledge that is plan to see by the eyes. (insert the typical argument) " A scrambling QB has never won a Super Bowl!" Yada, yada, yada. I know for a fact that there is now and have been in the past more "protype" QB's in the NFL. Not all QB's that, per se, fit the bill win Super Bowls. You can choose to blame another person's admiration for certain players(VY or whomever) to cloud their judgement to dislike another(Carr). But at the end of the day, Carr will have to own up to his subpar play. It won't be because VY or Bush wasn't picked. It will be because he knows what is at stake with his career in Houston. David had the perfect opportunity to shut me and a ton of people up this year by coming out and playing at another level. But no he performs like it's no big deal and seems to be content with losing. I'll bet you one thing VY heard all the bad things about him (and continues to, why I have no idea) and is HELL BENT on making a ton of non believers, believers. I guess that's the difference. I guess the cream does indeed rise to the top. Come on, buddy. Carr is the QB on record. People need to be more focused on his play or lack thereof. Stop blaming other people and factors for his own faults.

HJam72
12-29-2006, 01:25 AM
Well, I'll just say this:

We need to do something about the sack problem. Some people think replacing Carr in itself would fix that. I don't know, but if another QB gets sacked 40 something times or more, I won't be happy about it. Too many sacks is a huge problem no matter who the QB is. I think 5 yrs. of way too many sacks is a much bigger problem that who our QB is, unless the sacks are Carr's fault too, which I kind of agree with, but not most of them.

swtbound07
12-29-2006, 01:33 AM
The White Guy in the VY jersey says you probably shouldn't make it a race thing

HJam72
12-29-2006, 01:38 AM
The White Guy in the VY jersey says you probably shouldn't make it a race thing

Dude, you're white? No kidding? :)

HJam72
12-29-2006, 01:39 AM
I know that there are plenty of people who have no bias in this whatsoever. I'd just like to know the percentages. That's all.

kbourda
12-29-2006, 01:40 AM
Well, I'll just say this:

We need to do something about the sack problem. Some people think replacing Carr in itself would fix that. I don't know, but if another QB gets sacked 40 something times or more, I won't be happy about it. Too many sacks is a huge problem no matter who the QB is. I think 5 yrs. of way too many sacks is a much bigger problem that who our QB is, unless the sacks are Carr's fault too, which I kind of agree with, but not most of them.

How long are we going to talk about OL problems? For this to be a problem year in and year out, you would think something would be done by now. We went to zone blocking, put the guys on weight loss plans, hired coaches with "fortes'" in OL coaching, drafted for it, went out in FA and paid for it, started our expansion draft with it, moved guys around along the line, and so on and forth. You get my point. I can't imagine what else to do with the OL. Why do other QB's succeed with sub par lines but our guy can't? I'm sorry, i'll buy that excuse for a minute but that ******* is getting older than 8-tracks already are!

kbourda
12-29-2006, 01:41 AM
The White Guy in the VY jersey says you probably shouldn't make it a race thing

Thanks for bringing in some reality to this thread.

HJam72
12-29-2006, 01:49 AM
How long are we going to talk about OL problems? For this to be a problem year in and year out, you would think something would be done by now. We went to zone blocking, put the guys on weight loss plans, hired coaches with "fortes'" in OL coaching, drafted for it, went out in FA and paid for it, started our expansion draft with it, moved guys around along the line, and so on and forth. You get my point. I can't imagine what else to do with the OL. Why do other QB's succeed with sub par lines but our guy can't? I'm sorry, i'll buy that excuse for a minute but that ******* is getting older than 8-tracks already are!

Going to zone blocking and lightening your O-linemen does not help your pass blocking. Neither does starting a rookie LT, moving the only adequate LT we've had to LG, using Victor Riley at LT, losing Spencer (who had definite promise) to a broken leg, or using freaking Steve McKinney as a starting center for four years. McKinney at center vs. a nose tackle is a huge problem with pass protection--see Steelers game. We can't even take a 7 step drop because Carr would get sacked on the fifth step. Now maybe it's the O-line AND Carr. That is possible.

DocBar
12-29-2006, 08:24 AM
I would have to agree with the following from Jerome Solomon of the Chron:

"When put in situations where the team needs its quarterback to make a play, the Texans have morphed into a team that just gives up most of the time. Again, that's good coaching, but it's not winning football over the long haul. If the Colts could tackle, the game might not have been close.

Third-and-8 from the Indy 47 with a seven-point, third-quarter lead, is not the time to throw the ball to Mark Bruener four yards behind the line of scrimmage.

Third-and-9 from the Indy 27 with a four-point, fourth-quarter lead, is not the time to send Kevin Walter on a faux reverse and give the ball to Chris Taylor up the gut, especially with Eric Moulds and Andre Johnson not even asked to run pass patterns to loosen up the defense. Block down boys, you're nothing but extra linemen with Carr at QB.

Those two plays failed, and could have cost the Texans the game. Not every play is going to work, we understand that, but when you limit your playbook because your quarterback isn't any good, you need a new quarterback. If you limit your playbook to the number of plays you can write on a matchbook cover because you have no confidence in your quarterback, you need a new quarterback.
Heed the advice of Bill Belichick: "You have to put players out there that you have confidence in and believe in. If you don't, they shouldn't be out there. You should find somebody else that you can feel that way about." " Is it lack of faith in the QB or lack of faith in the O-line, in an obvious passing situation, against one of the best pass-rushing teams in the league? I agree the play calling baffled me at times, but our O-line just plain sucks at pass protection.

Trenches
12-29-2006, 08:32 AM
sure the O line is bad and any QB in the league would get sacked a lot. but, it appears to me that Carr panics or makes bad decisions more than most. he takes sacks he shouldnt (he still hasnt learned to 'just get rid of it') and then gets rid of it too soon underneath when he actually does have time.

these are the intangibles that you cant teach and are some of the traits that define a good qb. I agree that he has talent, but so did many guys who rolled thru the league and washed out.

HJam72
12-29-2006, 08:41 AM
sure the O line is bad and any QB in the league would get sacked a lot. but, it appears to me that Carr panics or makes bad decisions more than most. he takes sacks he shouldnt (he still hasnt learned to 'just get rid of it') and then gets rid of it too soon underneath when he actually does have time.

these are the intangibles that you cant teach and are some of the traits that define a good qb. I agree that he has talent, but so did many guys who rolled thru the league and washed out.

There are 7 QBs that have been sacked more than Carr this year. Bulger, Lossman, and Vick are the only 3 that have done better than Carr. The other 4 have not. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&stable=passing&stat=passSck&dir=descending

I guess Michael Vick has no pocket presence.

Of the 4 who have done worse than Carr, 1 of them was the Superbowl champion QB last year.

thunderkyss
12-29-2006, 11:49 AM
Well, I'll just say this:

We need to do something about the sack problem. Some people think replacing Carr in itself would fix that. I don't know, but if another QB gets sacked 40 something times or more, I won't be happy about it. Too many sacks is a huge problem no matter who the QB is. I think 5 yrs. of way too many sacks is a much bigger problem that who our QB is, unless the sacks are Carr's fault too, which I kind of agree with, but not most of them.

Have I ever mentioned that Tom Brady was sacked over 40 times the year he won his first SuperBowl??

'sides...... when you design an offense around a three step drop, and your QB pulls the ball down after making the initial decision to throw the ball..... it's not your lines fault if he gets sacked. The QB should not have the ball.

Every Sack David has taken out of a 3 step drop, he decided to throw the ball, then pulled it back down. That's the QBs fault. I'd imagine that's 20 sacks this year.

So in my mind, our OL has given up 20 sacks. That's pretty darn good if you ask me. Pretty Darn Good.

If David threw the ball away on those 20 attempts, we'd all be complaining that he threw the ball away to much.... but I'd much rather complain about that, than knowing the very next play was either a run or a punt, because our QB can't play the position after a sack. Might as well pull him off the field, because he isn't doing anything anyway.

By throwing the ball away, we waste one play..... by taking the sack, we waste two.

Trenches
12-29-2006, 12:04 PM
There are 7 QBs that have been sacked more than Carr this year. Bulger, Lossman, and Vick are the only 3 that have done better than Carr. The other 4 have not. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&stable=passing&stat=passSck&dir=descending

I guess Michael Vick has no pocket presence.

Of the 4 who have done worse than Carr, 1 of them was the Superbowl champion QB last year.


I'm not sure what your point is but I dont put a lot of stock in QB rating. Seeing as how most of the passes Carr completes are underneath then he better have a high rating.

I go by what a QB does when the heat is on. Carr has shown me NOTHING under pressure to make me think he can be a big time QB.

Odogg
12-29-2006, 12:38 PM
I've been lurking long enough, I can't take it anymore.

David Carr is garbage. How the heck do people not see that? You could give him Ogden,Waters,Mawae,Hutchinson, and Walter Jones and the Texans would still be 5-11 every year. HE would still be checking down and throwing for 5 yards when he needs 10. And you actually believe he could go to Foxboro, or Baltimore in January and beat somebody in the 4th quarter? WTF??!!?

Texan_Bill
12-29-2006, 12:49 PM
I take issue with one thing KBourda brought up about scrambling QB's not winning a Super Bowl.. Steve Young was a great scrambler, Roger "the Dodger" Staubach wasn't a bad scrambler. So there have been some...

Anyway, other than that, I agree with most of his points...

Texans_Chick
12-29-2006, 02:16 PM
I do not care for most of what Jerome Solomon writes.

If you read his blog from the beginning, he basically acts as though he is slumming to cover the Texans because he used to cover the Patriots.

If I want to read blather about the Texans, I rather read the stuff here.

He did have a nice point a couple of week's ago in the game against the Patriots. Something that Nick from the Texans pointed out too.

Patriots and Jets signed Guss Scott the week before playing the Texans and cut him right after the game. Scott played for the Texans a bit.

Mr teX
12-29-2006, 02:23 PM
Have I ever mentioned that Tom Brady was sacked over 40 times the year he won his first SuperBowl??

'sides...... when you design an offense around a three step drop, and your QB pulls the ball down after making the initial decision to throw the ball..... it's not your lines fault if he gets sacked. The QB should not have the ball.

Every Sack David has taken out of a 3 step drop, he decided to throw the ball, then pulled it back down. That's the QBs fault. I'd imagine that's 20 sacks this year.

So in my mind, our OL has given up 20 sacks. That's pretty darn good if you ask me. Pretty Darn Good.

If David threw the ball away on those 20 attempts, we'd all be complaining that he threw the ball away to much.... but I'd much rather complain about that, than knowing the very next play was either a run or a punt, because our QB can't play the position after a sack. Might as well pull him off the field, because he isn't doing anything anyway.

By throwing the ball away, we waste one play..... by taking the sack, we waste two.


Didn't know that it mattered all that much considering we'd still be complaining about him throwing the ball away too much. People on this board are citing him "checking down" as a reason why he can't read a defense. Not that they're fine with him doing that as long as he got it into someone else's hands that "might" be able to make a little play on.

As you said YOU might be fine complaining about that, but other's on this board would be blowing a gasket. In other words it would never end.

DocBar
12-29-2006, 02:29 PM
Have I ever mentioned that Tom Brady was sacked over 40 times the year he won his first SuperBowl??

'sides...... when you design an offense around a three step drop, and your QB pulls the ball down after making the initial decision to throw the ball..... it's not your lines fault if he gets sacked. The QB should not have the ball.

Every Sack David has taken out of a 3 step drop, he decided to throw the ball, then pulled it back down. That's the QBs fault. I'd imagine that's 20 sacks this year.

So in my mind, our OL has given up 20 sacks. That's pretty darn good if you ask me. Pretty Darn Good.

If David threw the ball away on those 20 attempts, we'd all be complaining that he threw the ball away to much.... but I'd much rather complain about that, than knowing the very next play was either a run or a punt, because our QB can't play the position after a sack. Might as well pull him off the field, because he isn't doing anything anyway.

By throwing the ball away, we waste one play..... by taking the sack, we waste two.
I'm not a Carr lover or hater. It's hard to compare Carr's situation to anyone else who wasn't drafted by an expansion team. Brady has always had one helluva defense to fall back on and a very good HC. Can't say the same for Carr. No other QB has been sacked as much as Carr since he came into the league. He's had a new scheme and/or coordinator each year. Carr, in my mind, is the victim of Dom Capers and Charlie Casserlly's failings in their respective positions. Maybe he needs a change of scenery. I don't think we need Plummer or (shudder) Jeff Garcia here. I'd rather stick with Carr. If I'm going to watch an ineffective QB, I'd rather it be him than some other teams castoff. We've had to deal with enough rejects from around the league.

dantem
12-29-2006, 02:39 PM
I would have to agree with the following from Jerome Solomon of the Chron:

"When put in situations where the team needs its quarterback to make a play, the Texans have morphed into a team that just gives up most of the time. Again, that's good coaching, but it's not winning football over the long haul. If the Colts could tackle, the game might not have been close.

Third-and-8 from the Indy 47 with a seven-point, third-quarter lead, is not the time to throw the ball to Mark Bruener four yards behind the line of scrimmage.

Third-and-9 from the Indy 27 with a four-point, fourth-quarter lead, is not the time to send Kevin Walter on a faux reverse and give the ball to Chris Taylor up the gut, especially with Eric Moulds and Andre Johnson not even asked to run pass patterns to loosen up the defense. Block down boys, you're nothing but extra linemen with Carr at QB.

Those two plays failed, and could have cost the Texans the game. Not every play is going to work, we understand that, but when you limit your playbook because your quarterback isn't any good, you need a new quarterback. If you limit your playbook to the number of plays you can write on a matchbook cover because you have no confidence in your quarterback, you need a new quarterback.

Heed the advice of Bill Belichick: "You have to put players out there that you have confidence in and believe in. If you don't, they shouldn't be out there. You should find somebody else that you can feel that way about." "

LINK (http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2006/12/want_the_truth_about_carrs_pla.html)

Another quote that is based on incorrrect assumptions, you might as well be quoting another Carr hater from this board.

He assumes that DC is calling the plays = Assumption!

He assumes that the playbook is limited because Carr's brain is to little to hold it, or he just cant run those plays. = Assumption!

He assumes that Kubiak has no faith in David Carrs ability = Assumption!

This article is based mostly on the authors assumptions. He tries to state them as if they are facts. Very Tabloidesque.

infantrycak
12-29-2006, 03:50 PM
Every Sack David has taken out of a 3 step drop, he decided to throw the ball, then pulled it back down. That's the QBs fault. I'd imagine that's 20 sacks this year.

So in my mind, our OL has given up 20 sacks. That's pretty darn good if you ask me. Pretty Darn Good.

Nice voodoo sackonomics.

thunderkyss
12-29-2006, 08:37 PM
Nice voodoo sackonomics.

I know what you mean.... you'd think after 5 years, an NFL starting QB would know that the reason he is doing a 3 step drop, was because of protection issues.. & after his third step, he doesn't have time to pull the ball down, and survey the defense.

Third step down...... throw the ball. It's not that hard.

fshaw
12-29-2006, 08:55 PM
Am I the only one who sees opinions being affected by race here? I wonder what percentage of the VY lovers (ie Carr haters) are black. Obviously, not all of them, but I wonder. I know Moon was hated on by some white people for a while and now I think I'm seeing some of the opposite.

I think we need a thread about Carr that only non-Caucasion and non-black people can post in. That would be interesting. Oh, and no teenage girls drooling on Carr's hair.

We might want to keep out certain alumni as well.

You gotta be kidding, I'm white and I was the biggest Moon fan ever. I have always felt he was the reason for the Oilers success. I have been a Carr fan as well...... until the Raider game. I do hate VY and the TiTans Top to Bottom.

touttail
12-30-2006, 06:03 AM
There are 7 QBs that have been sacked more than Carr this year. Bulger, Lossman, and Vick are the only 3 that have done better than Carr. The other 4 have not. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&stable=passing&stat=passSck&dir=descending

I guess Michael Vick has no pocket presence.

Of the 4 who have done worse than Carr, 1 of them was the Superbowl champion QB last year.


Kind of hard to believe Vick has pocket presence with 1000+ rushing yards.

VY game winning run, came right towards us in our endzone. You should have seen him kick in the afterburner. Better than that, you should have seen him when he ripped his helmet off and saw the intensity on his face!

BTW---I am white and still think Carr sucks & VY rocks!


Bobby 119C:yahoo:

HJam72
12-30-2006, 03:39 PM
You gotta be kidding, I'm white and I was the biggest Moon fan ever. I have always felt he was the reason for the Oilers success. I have been a Carr fan as well...... until the Raider game. I do hate VY and the TiTans Top to Bottom.

There were people who had racist ideas about Moon in the beginning. Obviously, it wasn't every white fan. I don't remember what I thought of Moon right from the start, but I do know that I wasn't racist about it and that I definitely liked him when they started winning.

Not just talking about Moon in HS or something either; I mean when he first went to the Houston Oilers.

Frankly people, you can disagree all you want, but I'm not going to keep coming back to this thread (not on purpose anyway) and talking about race. It's a no win topic, just like religion, because most people hear what they want to hear (or read).

HJam72
12-30-2006, 04:08 PM
I really am leaning toward believing that Carr is not the answer. I just think that he gets bashed too much on these boards and by too many fans. I'm not sure what I'd do about him; I might even keep him until his contract was up, just to avoid spending a first round pick and taking a cap hit on his release, etc. He's got problems, but I'm about 80% sure that he doesn't deserve all this hate that's spewed about him every day.

It also irritates me that they gave him that extension in the first place when they had Young waiting to be drafted, but that doesn't mean I like hearing negative stuff about Willams either. I wanted Young, but I'd like to forget that he exists now, not that it's possible.

NJTexanFan
12-30-2006, 04:10 PM
Am I the only one who sees opinions being affected by race here? I wonder what percentage of the VY lovers (ie Carr haters) are black. Obviously, not all of them, but I wonder. I know Moon was hated on by some white people for a while and now I think I'm seeing some of the opposite.

I think we need a thread about Carr that only non-Caucasion and non-black people can post in. That would be interesting. Oh, and no teenage girls drooling on Carr's hair.

We might want to keep out certain alumni as well.

Wow that's a first i've heard something like that well I'm black and to tell you the truth i hate Vince Young i don't know why but i don't like him i was a Carr supporter for a while but sometimes it's time to let go, and it's a coincidence that my favorite quarterback is white right race has absolutely nothing to do with why people hate Carr he just hasn't shown us anything in 5 years tell me why he can never get over the hump of how many TD's he throw and INT's he throw for some reason they're always neck and neck and i believe i seen one game this season where he actually threw a long pass to AJ i don't know if that's the coaching or not but i believe that's why Carr fell out of favor with alot of fans