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View Full Version : Joe Thomas versus D'Brick


TexanSam
12-28-2006, 12:02 AM
I raised the question last year on who was rated higher going into the draft, D'Brick or Robert Gallery (now with Oakland). Now going into this draft, who is rated higher, D'Brick or Joe Thomas of Wisconsin? I don't know much about college football prospects and such besides what I hear from Mel Kiper and on local radio so I'm not an expert or anything, but I see Thomas as being better. I heard Mel Kiper say he even voted him 4th or 5th on his Heisman ballot, that he was that good. What are your thoughts?

My opinion is that while I would rather sign a quality LT through free agency, I don't really that will happen since most quality LT's are locked up. I'm leaning more towards drafting Thomas if he's available.

YoungTexanFan
12-28-2006, 12:07 AM
I raised the question last year on who was rated higher going into the draft, D'Brick or Robert Gallery (now with Oakland). Now going into this draft, who is rated higher, D'Brick or Joe Thomas of Wisconsin? I don't know much about college football prospects and such besides what I hear from Mel Kiper and on local radio so I'm not an expert or anything, but I see Thomas as being better. I heard Mel Kiper say he even voted him 4th or 5th on his Heisman ballot, that he was that good. What are your thoughts?

My opinion is that while I would rather sign a quality LT through free agency, I don't really that will happen since most quality LT's are locked up. I'm leaning more towards drafting Thomas if he's available.

I think Dbrick is the the prospect. Dbrick was just phenominal coming out. Very long arms, super quick feet, set up quickly, strong hand punch, good mirroring ability. JT is great no doubt, but I have many questions about his game that I did not have about Dbrick. Many say JT is better but I call bull*******. Dbrick > JT

YoungTexanFan
12-28-2006, 12:10 AM
Dbrick was the best pass blocking OT to come out in a LONG time. He was very good against the run as well, but was an elite pass blocking LT.

JT is very good at both, but not elite at either and has a major knee injury on his record. He has never been known to have amazing feet, super long arms, or be considered elite in any way. He is the best LT in the class now that Gaither is most likely returning to school, but I don't consider that much when Levi Brown is getting 1st round consideration.

Dbrick compares easily to Walter Jones
JT compares easily to Gallery


Need more?

threetoedpete
12-28-2006, 12:52 AM
And I vigoursly dissagree with YTF's assesment.


Bricks assement is spot on in my book. However....

Joe Thomas has elite feet for a man of his size. He is the controller along the Winsconsin line....which features a very slew footed, weak armed QB...You look up the sack stats. And for the Big ten...that says a lot.
MY closest NFL comparison, and I don't give this one out lightly, you can look up my posts for the last four years...is Bruce Mathews. He could from day one, cover everything on our offensive line from center on. OLT, LG and center. His speed will negatge all nfl caliber speed rushers. His power will give a tremedous punch on the left side. Zona gets him...mark them for the '07 play offs. He's that good. He played on the knee all season...and the six games I've watched him it is a non issue. We make a play to get him...I'll be on board. Not at any costs, but at fair market value. two high picks.

You judge for youself in the bowl game. And I look forward to seeing him go against Gains Adams in the Sr. bowl. Brick pretty much educated Mathis Kiwanuka last year. I expect similar results if Gains and Joe Thomas hook up.

kastofsna
12-28-2006, 08:53 AM
thomas is superb in the running game. not elite? puh-leeze. and his knee injury wasn't major at all; pretty minor as far as torn tendons are concerned. he was bending his knee and walking around the day after surgery. and it hasn't affected his play at all this year; he's playing at an elite level, higher than ferguson ever played at. ferguson has longer arms, and that's really all he has on thomas, really.

Number19
12-28-2006, 10:38 AM
Here are some comments I gleaned from the web. The first two of these are highly respected scouting services. It is a consensus that JT is an elite pass blocker, so my selection of quotes is more about his weaknesses.

"Joe is the best pure pass blocking LT that I have seen come out of college in the last five years.... Joe Thomas is not a very good run blocker. He does not fire out of his stance and this causes him to lose leverage. He does not stay with his blocks. He is not very aggressive at all when it comes to run blocking. He seems not to be interested in that part of the game... I donít know why Joe is not interested in run blocking, but I can tell you this -- he certainly has the talent to do it...But thatís just crazy THR profile guy - the only guy out here that actually looks at films to profile players. What do I know?"--Drew Boylhart, The Huddle Report

I read one report a while back that, contrary to most reports, said he had "short" arms. NFL Draft Scout probably has a more accurate description on his arm length : "...Has decent arm length, but not the large wingspan to generate long reach blocks...".

NFL Draft Scout also seems to contradict Drew Boylhart : "...Shows good urgency and leg drive coming off the snap...Quick coming off the snap, gaining position and generating movement to sustain...works hard to maintain the rushing crease (143 of his 220 knockdown blocks came in run support-see 2005-06 Bowling Green, 2005 Temple, North Carolina, Minnesota and Illinois games). [Note that these games are all prior to the injury]

Comments which seem to support Drew Boylhart are : "...If he can become more active with his hands, he will improve his ability to finish...Has a strong punch to shock and jolt his opponent, but must do it with more consistency...Even with his hand strength, he must utilize that power more in order to stun and jolt his man (more of a position and sustain finesse type).

[My impression is that NFL Draft Scout's comments are more based on the 2005 season, prior to the injury and that Drew Boylhart has updated his comments to reflect play from this year.]

Sporting News has this to say, in their weakness comments, : "...Must be more aggressive with hand punch in pass protection and when attacking defensive linemen in the running game..."

WildBlackBear32
12-28-2006, 10:40 AM
Brick pretty much educated Mathis Kiwanuka last year.

It's a shame that Kiwi was sick and coming off the knee injury when they faced off. He's already showing what a beast he is in the NFL.

painekiller
12-29-2006, 01:31 AM
Not that he is going to be listened to, but Caserly said on CBS pregame, that Thomas is the highest OLT to come out in almost a decade. Much higher than D'Brick and Gallery. Also just a side note, Quinn is consider only an average QB prospect but is still the best QB in this draft.

beerlover
12-29-2006, 02:43 AM
Not that he is going to be listened to, but Caserly said on CBS pregame, that Thomas is the highest OLT to come out in almost a decade. Much higher than D'Brick and Gallery. Also just a side note, Quinn is consider only an average QB prospect but is still the best QB in this draft.

if Casserly say's it must be so :shades:

kastofsna
12-29-2006, 08:50 AM
i don't know how any scout can say quinn is an "average" prospect. he's prototypical in every sense of the word.

threetoedpete
12-29-2006, 10:06 PM
for those interested...heyer's gone out with an injury at just befor the end of the half. Gaither is on the left side.
Switched them back. Gaither was only there for two series. Friedgen Musta been rotating them ?

Runner
12-29-2006, 10:39 PM
It's been my observation that the players in the current draft class always seem better than those that came before. They haven't played in the NFL and had their weaknesses exposed yet.

beerlover
12-30-2006, 01:50 AM
It's been my observation that the players in the current draft class always seem better than those that came before. They haven't played in the NFL and had their weaknesses exposed yet.

underclassman determine the quality & depth of any single draft. last year for example if no underclassman came out D'Brickashaw Ferguson would've been the top pick (Mario, Bush & VY Jrs.) as it stands this year is still up in the air depending on who declares.

eriadoc
12-30-2006, 04:38 AM
I really, really wanted Brick in this past draft. I posted several times about it. I like Mario and I like Vince, but Brick could have really turned this franchise around a lot quicker, IMO. Imagine Brick with Spencer .... and we could have gotten both. I was high on him going into the Bowl season last year, but afterwards, he really made me a true believer. He has an incredible attitude, seems very intelligent, and really loves playing offensive line. He played in the Senior Bowl last year when he didn't have to. Most high prospects sit out the Senior Bowl, but Brick went. When the media asked him why he elected to play in the game, he just said he likes playing ball and wanted to go play. He had really not much to gain by playing in the game.

I don't know as much about Joe Thomas at this point in the season as I did about Brick this time last year. If he grades out as highly as Ferguson, then I'm totally on board with trying to get him. I don't think we'll be in a position to take him, however. If not, I think the guy that will be there that will be a reasonable pick in the 7-10 slot is Sam Baker from USC. If he's not there for some reason, trading down and taking Levi Brown (Penn St.) wouldn't be a bad idea either. Jake Long from Michigan is also being talked about as a first round pick, but from the games I've seen, I think I'd rather have Sam Baker. In fact, I might be able to be talked into Baker over Joe Thomas ... we'll see.

The only other real pick I can see with the first round pick is Leon Hall, also from Michigan. He kind of reminds me a little of Michael Huff, as I think he could play corner or safety. I think I'd rather have him than Landry or Nelson. Obviously, the combine will change a lot of this in terms of how they grade out against each other.

At any rate, I think you have to address the LT position with the first round pick, but top corners are also a first round commodity. If, for some reason, the elect not to take a first round tackle for the 6th year in a row, maybe Blalock is available in the second round, though I'm not sure he would have the lateral quickness necessary to play LT in the NFL. I'm not really familiar with too many other junior or senior tackle prospects beyond that.

Number19
12-30-2006, 09:44 AM
... If not, I think the guy that will be there that will be a reasonable pick in the 7-10 slot is Sam Baker from USC. If he's not there for some reason, trading down and taking Levi Brown (Penn St.) wouldn't be a bad idea either. Jake Long from Michigan is also being talked about as a first round pick, but from the games I've seen, I think I'd rather have Sam Baker. In fact, I might be able to be talked into Baker over Joe Thomas ... At any rate, I think you have to address the LT position with the first round pick...I'm with you on picking an OLT with our first pick. Unfortunately, Thomas will be gone (as you said) and Sam Baker has strongly stated he will remain in school for his senior season. Jake Long is an ORT, but has also strongly indicated he intends to return to school. Joe Staley is a player we might consider at the top of the second. Although relatively unknown at this time, by the draft, his workouts/grades may push him into the bottom of the first round.

kastofsna
12-30-2006, 11:01 AM
really though, the comparison to ferguson is really a moot point as far as the texans are concerned. if houston somehow had a shot at him, you draft him, period. he's an elite player and was extremely successfull in a zone-blocking scheme. 'nuff said.

cadahnic
12-30-2006, 02:06 PM
I really doubt Joe Thomas makes it past Oakland, Tampa, and Arizona to fall to us.

As for comparing him to D'Brick, I like Thomas better. D'Brick was a little more athletic and had longer arms, but I think Thomas is built more solidly and is much stronger. Neither have great lower body strength which somewhat limits their run blocking ability, but both have very quick feet and good balance to pass protect well. I think Thomas is much stronger in the upper body and has better use of his hands to ward off defenders and help absorb their moves while keeping them off balance. I also see much more of a mean streak in Thomas (similar to Eric Winston) that I don't see in D'Brick. I think Thomas is a better overall OT, especially for our system where run blocking is so important.

mexican_texan
12-30-2006, 02:17 PM
I want someone like Winston, who's looks alone could run block.

http://www.texansbullpen.com/06photogallery/Preseason/2006-08-03-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0030.JPG

Sarg01
12-30-2006, 02:23 PM
It's a shame that Kiwi was sick and coming off the knee injury when they faced off. He's already showing what a beast he is in the NFL.

I will never forgive Kiwi for allowing all this VY crud to get started.

Texian
12-30-2006, 03:16 PM
After giving much thought and analysis, conceding the fact the Texans need to address the O Line early in the draft, reluctantly I considered the 2nd RD since there are no 1st Rd pics after Thomas. So after drafting La Ron Landry with the 1st pick the Texans should select:

Ryan Harris

OT | (6'4", 298, 5.2) | NOTRE DAME

Scouts Grade: 91

Strengths: An experienced, battle-tested offensive lineman. Has developed into an extremely efficient offensive tackle at the highest collegiate level, and shows the potential to play any position along the offensive line. Needs to bulk up but has the frame to do so. Shows very good initial quickness and does a fine job with his first step and blocking angles. Technically sound lineman with good footwork and hand-placement. Rarely is out of position and does a good job of using leverage and angles to complete assignments as a run blocker. Possesses adequate upper body power. Does a good job of cutting defenders when asked to and he also does a fine job of hitting the moving target in space. He is asked to pull more often than most OT's, and he shows very good quickness and mobility in that regard. He has long arms and big hands. Shows a quick set in pass pro. Is agile enough to mirror-and-slide with more athletic pass rushers. Rarely gets beat around the corner by pure speed.

Weaknesses: Lacks ideal size. Possesses adequate but not good height for a left tackle prospect, and he must improve his bulk. He lacks a wide base and does not show the consistent ability to anchor versus more powerful bull rushers. He also comes up short in terms of his ability to uproot defenders and drive them off the line of scrimmage as a run blocker. He will leave his feet occasionally when he doesn't need to.

Overall: Harris received eight starts at right tackle during his true freshman season in 2003 and also saw extensive action on special teams. In 2004, he started at left tackle for all 12 of Notre Dame's contests but still contributed on special teams. Harris once again started every game (12) for the Fighting Irish in 2005 at left tackle giving him 31 consecutive starts leading up to his senior season in 2006.
In order to maximize his NFL potential, Harris must get bigger and stronger, especially his lower body. The good news is that he has the frame to add at least 15 more pounds in the future. Harris' agility, technique and toughness are what make him attractive as an NFL prospect, especially for teams that covet mobility. Depending on the team that drafts him, Harris could be moved inside to center or guard in the NFL. Regardless, he should come off the 2007 NFL draft board between the second-and-third rounds.

Number19
12-30-2006, 03:40 PM
After giving much thought and analysis, conceding the fact the Texans need to address the O Line early in the draft, reluctantly I considered the 2nd RD since there are no 1st Rd pics after Thomas. So after drafting La Ron Landry with the 1st pick the Texans should select:

Ryan Harris

OT | (6'4", 298, 5.2) | NOTRE DAME

Scouts Grade: 91

Strengths: An experienced, battle-tested offensive lineman. Has developed into an extremely efficient offensive tackle at the highest collegiate level, and shows the potential to play any position along the offensive line. Needs to bulk up but has the frame to do so. Shows very good initial quickness and does a fine job with his first step and blocking angles. Technically sound lineman with good footwork and hand-placement. Rarely is out of position and does a good job of using leverage and angles to complete assignments as a run blocker. Possesses adequate upper body power. Does a good job of cutting defenders when asked to and he also does a fine job of hitting the moving target in space. He is asked to pull more often than most OT's, and he shows very good quickness and mobility in that regard. He has long arms and big hands. Shows a quick set in pass pro. Is agile enough to mirror-and-slide with more athletic pass rushers. Rarely gets beat around the corner by pure speed.

Weaknesses: Lacks ideal size. Possesses adequate but not good height for a left tackle prospect, and he must improve his bulk. He lacks a wide base and does not show the consistent ability to anchor versus more powerful bull rushers. He also comes up short in terms of his ability to uproot defenders and drive them off the line of scrimmage as a run blocker. He will leave his feet occasionally when he doesn't need to.

Overall: Harris received eight starts at right tackle during his true freshman season in 2003 and also saw extensive action on special teams. In 2004, he started at left tackle for all 12 of Notre Dame's contests but still contributed on special teams. Harris once again started every game (12) for the Fighting Irish in 2005 at left tackle giving him 31 consecutive starts leading up to his senior season in 2006.
In order to maximize his NFL potential, Harris must get bigger and stronger, especially his lower body. The good news is that he has the frame to add at least 15 more pounds in the future. Harris' agility, technique and toughness are what make him attractive as an NFL prospect, especially for teams that covet mobility. Depending on the team that drafts him, Harris could be moved inside to center or guard in the NFL. Regardless, he should come off the 2007 NFL draft board between the second-and-third rounds.I would be interested in knowing where this is from. It has the look of a paid site. That's OK. Link please (to the home page) or name of publication.

Texian
12-30-2006, 06:19 PM
I would be interested in knowing where this is from. It has the look of a paid site. That's OK. Link please (to the home page) or name of publication.

Yes it is from a paid site, ESPN Insiders, Scouts, Inc.http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/index