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Sportsfan
12-27-2006, 04:19 PM
What is everyone's opinion on how Mario did this year and what his future holds and his chance of becoming a dominating pass rusher?

In my humble opinion he didn't perform consistenly like the #1 overall pick.
He did show some flashes of dominance and power, no doubt. I also know that he is dealing w/a foot condition and is still making a difference.

I found this scouting report on the NFL site and found this part interesting.


Positives: Great size (6-foot-7 and 295 pounds). ... Superior speed and athleticism. ... Excellent anticipation of the snap and quickness off the ball allow him to win most battles on his first step. ... Outstanding closing speed. ... Excellent footwork and change-of-direction skills. ... Superb ball instincts. ... Shows equal dominance rushing the passer or stopping the run. ... Big hitter.

Negatives: Despite tremendously long arms, needs to work at getting better separation from blockers. ... Must improve technique rather than mostly relying on running around blockers.


Everytime i've watched Mario, he still seems to have this problem of shedding blockers quickly and making a move.
What's your opinions on this aspect of his game?
Discuss...

HJam72
12-27-2006, 04:27 PM
The best thing about Mario may be that he is a weakside DE who NOBODY wants to run at. If I ran anywhere near him, he'd break both my arms while stripping the ball from me with one hand. Whether or not he will turn out to be the great pass rusher that we hope remains to be seen. He's a rookie DE with a temporary foot problem. What else is there to say?

Oh, one other thing. I think when and if Mario does get a lot of sacks, he's going to cause a buttload of fumbles. The way he tackles is like an arm restraint. Both the QB's arms come slinging straight down to his sides and the ball goes bouncing it's own merry way. Let's hope he gets to 'em quite often next year. :marionaner:

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 04:39 PM
The best thing about Mario was that he was willing to play with pain/injury and didn't become a complete liability. That bodes well for his work ethic and his athletic ability in general. I don't think we ever saw a healthy Mario this year. Here is to hoping that we finally get to open our Christmas present from Mario a year later once he gets healthy.

Put a Gaines Adams opposite him on the DL or 'The Tree' Branch at DT alongside him and we could go into hyperspace regarding our DL production. Maybe Branch's work ethic would rub off on T.Johnson at DT.

DenverBorn
12-27-2006, 04:42 PM
I think he's fine, just not worth the first pick in the draft. I'm guessing we could have found comparable talent in later rounds.

VY's Crib U Jus payn Rent
12-27-2006, 04:42 PM
More like a mid-fourth rounder - Bobby and Gary were idiots for taking this guy number one overall and let's not mention how poorly they did with their other overall number one pick...

TheOgre
12-27-2006, 04:45 PM
I want to see how he does when he is healthy. He had 4.5 sacks through the first 8-9 games. He hasn't had any since he got injured. He has still had an impact against the run though.

Is he worth the 1st overall selection? Not at this point.

Will he be? We won't know for another 2-3 years.

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2006, 04:46 PM
I think he's fine, just not worth the first pick in the draft. I'm guessing we could have found comparable talent in later rounds.

We all know a first year players worth given the contract they sign is a multi year contract. :rolleyes:

He has improved, he has made a difference, he has played injured and he has garnered respect from other coaches and players in the NFL. And he has done all of that before he turns 22. We got a player who has a high ceiling and will now have 16 NFL games to build on this off season.

real
12-27-2006, 04:53 PM
I'm guessing we could have found comparable talent in later rounds.

I don't know about that....


Mario was definitely top three talent.....

TexanSam
12-27-2006, 05:02 PM
I think he's improved quite a bit. It's harder to judge a D-lineman from most other positions, but I think he'll end up being the dominant guy we expected from him. I can't wait to see him next season with a year under his belt and two healthy feet.

TexanLen
12-27-2006, 05:03 PM
I think he will be fine. He has definitly had flashes of what he can be. The speed and size this guy has is amazing!!! I seen him last week make a play on Addai that made me go WOW!!! Unfortunatly he will always be compared to pick #2 and #3. It is unfair to him, but i can't wait until Mario is healthy and sacks the #3 pick making him fumble and leave the game!! (Not end his carreer, but knock him out the game!!!) I know, wishful thinking, but anything can happen any given Sunday!!!

DenverBorn
12-27-2006, 05:10 PM
Here's where this year's 6 Pro Bowl DE's were drafted:

Jason Taylor 3rd round # 73 - 1997
Aaron Schobel 2nd round # 46 - 2001
Derrick Burgess 3rd round #63 - 2001
Julius Peppers 1st round #2 - 2002
Will Smith 1st round # 18 - 2004
Aaron Kampman 5th round # 156 - 2002

Now if you are SURE that Mario Williams is going to become a Julius Peppers or a Jevon Kearse, maybe you pick him number 1. But there was NOTHING in his college career to make one sure he'd be that good.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/positions/DE

VY's Crib U Jus payn Rent
12-27-2006, 05:11 PM
I think he will be fine. He has definitly had flashes of what he can be. The speed and size this guy has is amazing!!! I seen him last week make a play on Addai that made me go WOW!!! Unfortunatly he will always be compared to pick #2 and #3. It is unfair to him, but i can't wait until Mario is healthy and sacks the #3 pick making him fumble and leave the game!! (Not end his carreer, but knock him out the game!!!) I know, wishful thinking, but anything can happen any given Sunday!!!

VY will blow my Mario more often than Mario will sack him - count on it!

Why shouldn't he be compared to the # 2 & # 3 pick as the # 1 pick he is supposed to be better, but he never will be...

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2006, 05:18 PM
Here's where this year's 6 Pro Bowl DE's were drafted:

Jason Taylor 3rd round # 73 - 1997
Aaron Schobel 2nd round # 46 - 2001
Derrick Burgess 3rd round #63 - 2001
Julius Peppers 1st round #2 - 2002
Will Smith 1st round # 18 - 2004
Aaron Kampman 5th round # 156 - 2002

Now if you are SURE that Mario Williams is going to become a Julius Peppers or a Jevon Kearse, maybe you pick him number 1. But there was NOTHING in his college career to make one sure he'd be that good.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/positions/DE

3 of those 6 are in the Pro Bowl for the first time. Development is an important variable when considering future production.

dirty steve
12-27-2006, 05:23 PM
Here's where this year's 6 Pro Bowl DE's were drafted:

Jason Taylor 3rd round # 73 - 1997
Aaron Schobel 2nd round # 46 - 2001
Derrick Burgess 3rd round #63 - 2001
Julius Peppers 1st round #2 - 2002
Will Smith 1st round # 18 - 2004
Aaron Kampman 5th round # 156 - 2002

Now if you are SURE that Mario Williams is going to become a Julius Peppers or a Jevon Kearse, maybe you pick him number 1. But there was NOTHING in his college career to make one sure he'd be that good.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/positions/DE
are there any guarantees with anybody? you dont spend a number one pick on a RB/WR who doesnt even see the lions share of his teams carries. bush's season was REALLY pedestrian until the last three weeks and i'll just head off everybody (since i'm a #10 hater and all) and admit that VY has been great this year. even with Bush's latest hot spell, i still take mario and try and get alan branch in 2007 to chew up blockers for #90 and DeMeco.

DenverBorn
12-27-2006, 05:25 PM
3 of those 6 are in the Pro Bowl for the first time. Development is an important variable when considering future production.

right, but when you use the FIRST pick in the draft on someone, theoretically you should have less patience. My recollection was that drafting Mario was more about winning in 2006, not in 2009. That was the knock on VY, among other things - that it would take a few years for him to develop (ha). Now it's all about giving Mario the opportunity to develop. If we wanted to draft a DE and give him a few years to develop, we probably could have drafted someone in the middle rounds. Or use the $54 mm (or whatever it was) on a free agent.

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2006, 05:28 PM
right, but when you use the FIRST pick in the draft on someone, theoretically you should have less patience. My recollection was that drafting Mario was more about winning in 2006, not in 2009. That was the knock on VY, among other things - that it would take a few years for him to develop (ha). Now it's all about giving Mario the opportunity to develop. If we wanted to draft a DE and give him a few years to develop, we probably could have drafted someone in the middle rounds. Or use the $54 mm (or whatever it was) on a free agent.

Sure. Take a look at the cap after we extended Carr and there was no question in my mind where we were going with the first pick if a trade out did not occur.

DreDaMan05
12-27-2006, 05:30 PM
I will admit it Mario was not worth the number 1 pick, we could have still got him with additional picks. Will he become a superstar? I will say yes but you can't put it on him it takes help on the defensive line to make him better. With all the injuries on the DL we will not know right now how good he really is. I will state this fact he have made us into a better defensive unit. So why we may have reached to early for him, he will be the cornerstone for us having a dominating defense in the future.

kiwitexansfan
12-27-2006, 05:31 PM
When I ask myseld about Mario I keep on coming back the Bob Whitfield quote after the Giants game...

Quote:
Giants offensive tackle Bob Whitfield, a 15-year veteran and former first-round pick by Atlanta, had this to say about Mario Williams: "The son of a gun is almost inhuman out there for how big and thick and solid he is. And I caught it firsthand because I said to myself, `Don't give the young kid a sack.' But I don't call it a sack when he actually dislocates your whole left side of your body when he hit me. It was almost like he needed to have a penalty for tearing up an old man. I actually told him, `Slow it down, young fellow.' He's strong. He's big. He's got it. He's going to be a force to be reckoned with."

I am happy with the effort and toughness he is showing, and without that strip of Addai in the Colts game would we have won it??

I love the Mario pick and can't wait to see him next year older, wiser and fully fit.

dtran04
12-27-2006, 05:31 PM
In that case, no rookie is even close to being worth 60 million. This isn't basketball where one player can turn a franchise around.

DenverBorn
12-27-2006, 05:32 PM
By the way, KT, I assume that's your wife in your avatar? If yes, well done -

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2006, 05:33 PM
By the way, KT, I assume that's your wife in your avatar? If yes, well done -


It is. I have always been an over achiever. :)

Nine years today, thanks.

DenverBorn
12-27-2006, 05:34 PM
In that case, no rookie is even close to being worth 60 million. This isn't basketball where one player can turn a franchise around.

Oh I think there are many examples where one player makes a huge difference. Peyton Manning. Drew Brees. LaDanian Tomlinson. Vince Young

shansmacker
12-27-2006, 05:51 PM
Obviously Mario's play has been hampered by the foot problem but he has fought through it and played well,not great but well.I think he has the potential to be great.My guess is that three to four years down the road, him being the number 1 pick wont look like a bad choice at all.

TexanLen
12-27-2006, 06:08 PM
Worthy of #1? Not sure, but it is what it is. We can cry all we want for VY, Bush, or anyone else for that matter. It isn't going to change anything.

VY is good, but i think he is overated. His team has won games, but not all because of him. He is a rookie and still has lots of learning to do. Bush is a good player, and i think he will be great some day. The draft is a crap shoot. yeah, maybe the Texans made a mistake with the 1st pick, but look at DeMeco Ryans, Charles Spencer, Owen Daniels, and Wali Lundy picks. Not too bad!!! Mario Williams isn't a BAD pick, just a very questionable #1.

I know this is off a bit, but i wonder if Green Bay or any other team who took a LB in the 1st round want to rethink their picks when they could have had DeMeco?

Dunta_23
12-27-2006, 06:20 PM
Was AJ Hawk a better prospect than Mario Williams or Vince Young??? because if the Texans had taken Reggie Bush thats who the Saints would have taken at #2...so in comparison, Demeco Ryans would have been taken 31 picks later yet put up better numbers....same comparison can be made for Mario vs. other DE's this year like Tamba Hali etc etc...but the fact remains that Houston wanted to get a deal done before the draft with their player...and they couldnt reach a deal with Reggie, they didnt want Vince Young and Mario signed and therefor was the selection...is he worth 60 million dollars? Nope, but is any player? As somebody said it is what it is...his impact on the defense this year has been good, not great...but he was the youngest player in his draft class, playing a difficult position....give him time before anyone passes judgement...

kfranco_utexas
12-27-2006, 06:28 PM
I think he's fine, just not worth the first pick in the draft. I'm guessing we could have found comparable talent in later rounds.

I agree 100 percent.

kfranco_utexas
12-27-2006, 06:29 PM
Worthy of #1? Not sure, but it is what it is. We can cry all we want for VY, Bush, or anyone else for that matter. It isn't going to change anything.

VY is good, but i think he is overated. His team has won games, but not all because of him. He is a rookie and still has lots of learning to do. Bush is a good player, and i think he will be great some day. The draft is a crap shoot. yeah, maybe the Texans made a mistake with the 1st pick, but look at DeMeco Ryans, Charles Spencer, Owen Daniels, and Wali Lundy picks. Not too bad!!! Mario Williams isn't a BAD pick, just a very questionable #1.

I know this is off a bit, but i wonder if Green Bay or any other team who took a LB in the 1st round want to rethink their picks when they could have had DeMeco?

VY is overrated...I wonder what you think of David Carr, the #1 pick of his class...ooopps.:tease:

The Pencil Neck
12-27-2006, 08:45 PM
Oh I think there are many examples where one player makes a huge difference. Peyton Manning. Drew Brees. LaDanian Tomlinson. Vince Young

But take a look at what most of those guys did their first year. Not so much. Especially Brees. Manning led his team to a 3-13 season; he had a lot of yards and TD's but a lot of picks, too. VY has had a great first year but frankly, I don't think most people thought he was anything other than a project going into the season.

People like to say that the 1st pick shouldn't be a project but that's bull. EVERY rookie should be viewed as a project. When you consider the number of #1 overall picks that haven't lived up to the hype, you really shouldn't place a lot of emphasis on getting the #1 pick. Carson Palmer, a #1 pick, really benefitted from not being thrown immediately into the fray and being treated as a bit of a project.

I think Mario has shown flashes of being a premier DE. Not much of a pass rusher, yet, but a great player against the run. I've seen him make some insanely good plays. I think he was a great pick and he's going to be a great player for us for a long time. I think it was a good pick. In retrospect, maybe we should have gone with Vince. But seeing as how 99.9% of the people in the NFL thought he was going to be a project, I don't see how you could say we should have gone with VY with the first pick if you don't think people should take projects with the #1 overall pick.

TheIronDuke
12-27-2006, 09:16 PM
I'd like to see the MW we saw against the Giants for those two plays where he and Meco sacked Eli, the same amount of passion, and the same amount of just general butt-kicking all the time from him. Those plays, to me, seems to be an indicator that he does have abilities to play.

Obviously his stats don't support that he was worthy of the #1 overall pick. Half of his sacks have come from basically flopping on the fallen QB. I can respect the fact that he's been hampered by a foot injury, but I would really expect more dominance from a guy his size. He's gotten good run from opposing coaches and the opponent obviously doesn't try to run to his side as much as the other, but I would like to see MW just break some OL jaws and get to the QB and inflict pain like I think he can. When I see shots of him he's incredibly daunting physically and I wish that he could translate that into killing the opponent.

I'm hoping that what everyone is saying is true, that he's a project and that he's raw. Because at this point he hasn't proven to be worth the #1 overall and the millions of dollars per year. I do look forward to him and Meco over the next couple of years because they could well be the heart of the best defense in the NFL should we add a couple of more pieces. Championships are built on defense and I think that we do indeed have the building blocks as long as MW improves his technique and Meco continues doing what he's done all year long.

Number19
12-27-2006, 09:29 PM
Not to say there is a direct cause and effect - but the explanation for drafting Mario was that we needed to improve our defense in order to beat the Colts.

Last Sunday we beat the Colts for the first time.

DenverBorn
12-27-2006, 09:50 PM
Not to say there is a direct cause and effect - but the explanation for drafting Mario was that we needed to improve our defense in order to beat the Colts.

Last Sunday we beat the Colts for the first time.

Our offense is what beat the Colts last Sunday. Great offensive game plan by the Texans. Indianapolis had 6 possessions - 4 scores, 1 fumble and 1 punt. Give Mario the appropriate kudos for the fumble but it wasn't the defense that won last Sunday's game. It was a total ball control offense. Thank goodness Manning fell down on third down on the possession that resulted in a FG, otherwise that drive would likely have resulted in a TD as well.

My whole issue with the "project" issue is the hypocrisy of it all. We didn't draft Vince in part because he was a "project" and the team wants to win NOW. Yet the guy we did draft is also a "project", and we're now supposed to give him the time we weren't willing to give Vince.

Number19
12-27-2006, 09:56 PM
... it wasn't the defense that won last Sunday's game....Never said it was.

West Texas Texan
12-27-2006, 10:29 PM
Mario was a great #1 pick. He's only 22, will have played in 20 NFL games, with at least 10 more years of upside. Coaches screwed up by moving him around too much early on, this was overwhelming to the young man. Leave him at one spot and let him master it. Even with a foot injury, he continues to draw double teams. Give him some help on the line next year and you'll see him break out even more. He comes out next year a little stronger, more confident, and with more experience.

Reggie Bush wanted $30MM guaranteed. prior guaranteed amount was $24MM (I think). If I was McNair, I would have passed on him too. Think about this, where is the upside on RB? He is as fast as we are ever going to see him. I don't see any posts about his several sub-par performances that would justify his $60MM salary. I think we have seen the best of RB this year. It's downhill from here. (besides, I think that a #1 RB has never taken his team to the superbowl)...

VY hasn't seen any sophisticated defenses yet. You don't see them until the playoffs, when each week you see the best defenses. Which is another case in point. The intelligent teams understand that you build franchises with defense. Our #1 and #2 came out and performed day 1. Great picks. #3 and #4 in Spencer and Winston were just as great. Add Lundy, Daniels, Tayler, Morency, etc. This is going to be one of the all time best draft classes in the history of pro football. Look at all the rookie starters we have, and yet we have a chance to finish 6-10.

newport texan
12-27-2006, 11:32 PM
Mario is only 21 and was the youngest starter in the league earlier in the season. What got me excited is that Strahan is 34 and still is making an impact in this league, we could possibly get 13-14 more years from a productive, if not dominate, defensive end.

Sarg01
12-28-2006, 01:42 AM
My whole issue with the "project" issue is the hypocrisy of it all. We didn't draft Vince in part because he was a "project" and the team wants to win NOW. Yet the guy we did draft is also a "project", and we're now supposed to give him the time we weren't willing to give Vince.

It's not that hard. Vince was NEVER a candidate to be drafted by the Texans. The media, Vince himself and the UT boosters made it so the team had to at least talk to him. We simply were not taking a QB with #1 overall. Perhaps we might have been trying to trade back to the 5-10 range and maybe would have considered Vince there, I don't know.

No one is being a hypocrite. QB was not considered a need position. DE was a need position. It's as simple as that.

HJam72
12-28-2006, 01:54 AM
I think the real reason we didn't take VY is because the Texans as an organization thought we already had a good QB in Carr. They might have been embarrassingly wrong about that, but that's what they thought.

Mr teX
12-28-2006, 08:51 AM
Cut all this # 1 pick gibberish out. Mario did what he could do despite the talent surrounding him. people forget that he bascially elevated his fellow DT teammates to 1st round draft picks & once he gets quality guys around him, i think you'll see TJ come along.

i won't make excuses for his production in the sack dept. i'd like to see more of that, but considering how much respect teams are showing him already, i think it's just a matter of time & maturation of our relatively young defense. Plus i don't think he'll be a big sack guy anyway, he'll just be the rock on the side that teams don't want to run to. this is why Kubes started out by switching him around on the D L. Once we get a couple more playmakers in key positions on the D, I think you'll see Mario flourish; he's just 1 guy on the side of the ball that needs all 11 guys to be on the same page to function well.

Blake
12-28-2006, 10:10 AM
Getting back on track here, I think Mario is doing an excellent job, and I think he has been getting better each week. He battles through injury, and criticism. Everyone would like to see him get 10-12 sacks, but is that really a realistic goal for a 22 year old rookie DE on the Houston Texans? He will get there, but not until he gets more skilled, and has more talent around him.

Hey, we gave Carr 5 years here. We can give Mario 5 too.

Vinny
12-28-2006, 10:15 AM
For me his sack total is hollow even at 4. He ran into 3 of them and it wasn't like he was a big disruptive pass rusher by any means. With so many rookies making a huge impact in the league I'm a bit dissapointed with Mario at the 1 overall....but its just like Carr - IF he plays to his potential he can go to multiple Pro Bowls...but potential means you haven't done it yet. I'd give him a B- on the year just due to potential flashed and the fact that he is decent vs the run. You can get a run stopper later in the draft though.

Sportsfan
12-28-2006, 10:15 AM
Cut all this # 1 pick gibberish out.


I agree. I didn't want this to turn into a "Well if we would have picked VY or Bush..." thread. So please refrain from that aspect of us drafting Mario.
This is just to discuss his development as an NFL defensive lineman.

El Tejano
12-28-2006, 10:32 AM
Billichek told him he was good. I am going to go with the coach who has won multiple Super Bowls based on solid defensive teams.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2006, 10:35 AM
I agree. I didn't want this to turn into a "Well if we would have picked VY or Bush..." thread. So please refrain from that aspect of us drafting Mario.
This is just to discuss his development as an NFL defensive lineman.

But you should have known better. Of course there are people that will take this thread and twist it into their own agendas and really contribute nothing to it...

C'mon, you know better than that by now....

Sportsfan
12-28-2006, 10:36 AM
But you should have known better. Of course there are people that will take this thread and twist it into their own agendas and really contribute nothing to it...

C'mon, you know better than that by now....

Yeah i know that, was just trying to keep it on track. Its unfortunate that happens....

Blake
12-28-2006, 11:10 AM
Billichek told him he was good. I am going to go with the coach who has won multiple Super Bowls based on solid defensive teams.

True dat. When is the last time Bill went onto the field, and found a player, to compliment, and talk with him like that?

Richard Seymour
Vince Wilfork
Ty Warren

The guy knows how important these big men are.

For me his sack total is hollow even at 4. He ran into 3 of them and it wasn't like he was a big disruptive pass rusher by any means.

Why do we hold Mario's sacks against him? What about any other sack in the league that was "hollow?" Do we discount them? No we dont, because we hold Mario higher than any other player. Mario was the first to get to the QB on his 4.5 sacks. Im sure every other DE, LB, DT out there has a few "hollow" sacks, but who cares, theyre not Mario Williams.... We wont discount their sack totals because we didnt see them, or dont care to cheapen their stats.

Vinny
12-28-2006, 11:13 AM
True dat. When is the last time Bill went onto the field, and found a player, to compliment, and talk with him like that?

Richard Seymour
Vince Wilfork
Ty Warren

The guy knows how important these big men are.



Why do we hold Mario's sacks against him? What about any other sack in the league that was "hollow?" Do we discount them? No we dont, because we hold Mario higher than any other player. Mario was the first to get to the QB on his 4.5 sacks. Im sure every other DE, LB, DT out there has a few "hollow" sacks, but who cares, theyre not Mario Williams.... We wont discount their sack totals because we didnt see them, or dont care to cheapen their stats.
I'm not holding them against him...I'm just saying that all but 2 of them were gimmies. I don't impress as easily as you perhaps...nor did I change my screen name to MarioWilliams either. That probably explains why you didn't like my comment.

Blake
12-28-2006, 11:24 AM
I'm not holding them against him...I'm just saying that all but 2 of them were gimmies. I don't impress as easily as you perhaps...nor did I change my screen name to MarioWilliams either. That probably explains why you didn't like my comment.

Dont try to back pedal out of your comments now. You think that because he didnt pick up the tackle, throw him to the ground, and suplex the QB, it wasnt a good sack.

As far as them being "gimmies", give me a break. The QB gets flushed from the pocket by a unblocked linebacker, Mario sheds a blocker, and makes the tackle. What in the world is wrong with that? Im sure you have a witty response ready for this.

Its like your daughters boyfriend. Nobody is good enough for your Texans.

DenverBorn
12-28-2006, 12:22 PM
Yeah i know that, was just trying to keep it on track. Its unfortunate that happens....

Maybe we all ought to just sit in a circle, hold hands and tell each other how great the Texans are. That would be fun....

I think an evaluation of Mario has to be in the context of where he was drafted and what were the expectations for him. Otherwise, what's the point?

Texans_Chick
12-28-2006, 12:29 PM
Here's where this year's 6 Pro Bowl DE's were drafted:

Jason Taylor 3rd round # 73 - 1997
Aaron Schobel 2nd round # 46 - 2001
Derrick Burgess 3rd round #63 - 2001
Julius Peppers 1st round #2 - 2002
Will Smith 1st round # 18 - 2004
Aaron Kampman 5th round # 156 - 2002

Now if you are SURE that Mario Williams is going to become a Julius Peppers or a Jevon Kearse, maybe you pick him number 1. But there was NOTHING in his college career to make one sure he'd be that good.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/positions/DE


That is an exaggeration. link (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/06/the_ultimate_mario_williams_co_1.html)

I am not saying Peppers and Williams play in a similar way, but their college stats are very similar. If you look at the negatives about Peppers coming out of the draft, they are also similar to Williams. Like Peppers and Kearse, Williams is a physical freak. Unlike both of them, Williams came out of school as a true junior and not a redshirt.

Peppers went to play on a line with other good players and for a defensive minded coach in Fox who loves defensive linemen.

Williams has played a good portion of the season in a new defensive scheme with a bunch of guys who are street free agents. He is the only defensive lineman for the Texans who will have started every game. link, with goofy video. (http://texans.aolsportsblog.com/2006/12/27/last-man-standing-mario-williams/)

Vinny
12-28-2006, 12:31 PM
Dont try to back pedal out of your comments now. You think that because he didnt pick up the tackle, throw him to the ground, and suplex the QB, it wasnt a good sack.

As far as them being "gimmies", give me a break. The QB gets flushed from the pocket by a unblocked linebacker, Mario sheds a blocker, and makes the tackle. What in the world is wrong with that? Im sure you have a witty response ready for this.

Its like your daughters boyfriend. Nobody is good enough for your Texans.
I'm not backpedaling anything....ok, you have much Mario manlove....I get it. I also have a different opinion than you do...get that whydontcha. It's not like anyone considers him a one of the top rookies this year, (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0612/gallery.nfl.rookiewatch16/content.1.html) so it's not like I'm alone in giving him a b- and being a bit dissapointed in lieu of how many rookies are impacting the league across the board this season.

Mr teX
12-28-2006, 12:36 PM
Maybe we all ought to just sit in a circle, hold hands and tell each other how great the Texans are. That would be fun....

I think an evaluation of Mario has to be in the context of where he was drafted and what were the expectations for him. Otherwise, what's the point?

Because where he was drafted really is unimportant as far as i'm concerned. I 've said this before, but people make too much of the fact that he was the number 1 overall pick. If we drafted RB & he doesn't have a 1000 yd. rushing season his rookie year, does that mean that he wasn't the right pick for us? No, If VY throws more ints than TD's his rookie yr. does that make him not the right pick for us? no. the only thing should matter is what he/how did/progresses for us........our team, not what a no. 1 overall pick is supossed to do in everyone else's eyes. If Mario never has a double digit sack season but is a key component in a shutdown defense for years to come would anyone care where he was drafted then?

DenverBorn
12-28-2006, 12:57 PM
Its like your daughters boyfriend. Nobody is good enough for your Texans.

Hey! I really like my daughter's boyfriend...

Sarg01
12-28-2006, 01:15 PM
I always preferred that we take Reggie over Mario.

Perhaps Mario's sack numbers are "gimmies". So what? What has happened is clear, teams are running away from our injured rookie pass rushing end on runs and doubling him on passes. That sounds to me like he's changing the other team's game plan. Who else on the Texans can say the same? DeMeco, Dayne and maybe Andre. The same folks dissing Mario for poor stats are largely the ones talking about VY's bottom 5 passing stats being irrelevant because of how he "changes the game".

So DeMeco is a better rookie than Mario - OK, so what? They're both Top 10 talents, making it a little hard to grouse about our drafting decisions.

NEROtheZERO
12-28-2006, 02:48 PM
That is an exaggeration. link (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/06/the_ultimate_mario_williams_co_1.html)

I am not saying Peppers and Williams play in a similar way, but their college stats are very similar. If you look at the negatives about Peppers coming out of the draft, they are also similar to Williams. Like Peppers and Kearse, Williams is a physical freak. Unlike both of them, Williams came out of school as a true junior and not a redshirt.

Peppers went to play on a line with other good players and for a defensive minded coach in Fox who loves defensive linemen.

Williams has played a good portion of the season in a new defensive scheme with a bunch of guys who are street free agents. He is the only defensive lineman for the Texans who will have started every game. link, with goofy video. (http://texans.aolsportsblog.com/2006/12/27/last-man-standing-mario-williams/)

I think that is a very good point. Mario is playing on a line with street FA DT and with an injured foot. Was his production disappointing this season? Sure. Are there legitimate excuses for his production? Absolutely. Considering his injury and lack of peer talent coupled with his (in)experience I would almost go as far as to guarantee that we have merely seen a shell of Mario Williams. Hopefully we can pick up a monster DT or 2 in the draft or FA, let Mario heal up over the offseason, and see what he is really about with a year of NFL experience and some others talents on the line with him.

threetoedpete
12-28-2006, 03:05 PM
Well all I know is that I watched him use his hands much better last sunday. He's getting the tackel off his body. That killed one rumor. He is coachable. The monster is just now becoming self aware. Be patient.

Goldeagle
12-28-2006, 03:29 PM
Mario IMO had a subpar season. Only 4.5 sacks, not many tackles, he seems to just want to bull rush and gets taken 1 on 1 at times. I kept hearing this guy was agile for his size but I have not seen it.

BUT, I see him being dominant because he is playing next to 2 DTs who came off the street, and he will have a year Experience to go along with legit DTs that teams will have to respect.

Right now, our Front 4 are horrible (and no disrespect those guys are playing hard). No one can get pressure on the QB unless we blitz

kiwitexansfan
12-28-2006, 03:31 PM
I always preferred that we take Reggie over Mario.

Perhaps Mario's sack numbers are "gimmies". So what? What has happened is clear, teams are running away from our injured rookie pass rushing end on runs and doubling him on passes. That sounds to me like he's changing the other team's game plan. Who else on the Texans can say the same? DeMeco, Dayne and maybe Andre. The same folks dissing Mario for poor stats are largely the ones talking about VY's bottom 5 passing stats being irrelevant because of how he "changes the game".

So DeMeco is a better rookie than Mario - OK, so what? They're both Top 10 talents, making it a little hard to grouse about our drafting decisions.

I appreciate the sentiments Sarg01. I agree entirely, Mario's effectiveness doesn't show in stats but in impact on the whole defense.

I also agree that we had a very solid draft day.

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2006, 03:45 PM
Just imagine if we picked up Dwight Freeney from Indy this offseason. Which side would teams run the ball to?

Sarg01
12-28-2006, 03:50 PM
Just imagine if we picked up Dwight Freeney from Indy this offseason. Which side would teams run the ball to?

That's easy. Towards Freeney, one of the worst DEs in the league against the run. He's like Peek - so totally focused on getting to the QB that he can't keep containment.

dtran04
12-28-2006, 03:54 PM
Just imagine if we picked up Dwight Freeney from Indy this offseason. Which side would teams run the ball to?


Freeney's side easily. Hopefully TJ can be a penetrator that at least gets somewhat a push, forcing QB's to shift around the pocket. That's how sacks can come. Offensive tackles give up the outside, thinking the QB is inside.

TheOgre
12-28-2006, 03:59 PM
I'm going to give Mario a grade of INCOMPLETE this season due to his injury. However, he better show some more pass rush skills next year.

MarinerOne
12-28-2006, 04:28 PM
I'm going to give Mario a grade of INCOMPLETE this season due to his injury. However, he better show some more pass rush skills next year.

I would give Mario a B to B+ given the impact of having FP of the foot and injuries to the linemen around him. He has shown the skills for which he was drafted and his technique is improving. With healthy feet, I'm willing to bet you the pass rush will be there along with stuffing the run. He will also catch more quarterbacks and running backs from behind.

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2006, 04:32 PM
I kept hearing this guy was agile for his size but I have not seen it.

Do you actually watch the games?

alphajoker
12-28-2006, 06:01 PM
I'm going to give Mario a grade of INCOMPLETE this season due to his injury. However, he better show some more pass rush skills next year.

When in the season did he first go on the injury report with plantar fiscitis?

DocBar
12-28-2006, 06:32 PM
I like the Mario pick. He and Demeco Ryans are a lot like Carr and Johnson. Surrounded by sketchy players. A good DT and TJ being healthy, not to mention a year of experience for a VERY young player, will do wonders for Mario. I have been most impressed with his speed. I think him not shedding blocks quickly is a symptom of being a rookie. He seems to use the OT as a shield until he knows where the ball is going. He HAS to get something besides his speed/bull rush, though. He's blown containment several times the last few weeks as teams do a little delay handoff right through the space Mario vacated. With some healthy wheels, he should be a tremendous asset next year. Maybe approach double-digits sacks. DL, OL and DB's in the draft. Anything else would be a crime. Well, maybe another LB to go with Ryans. That man is the next Mike Singletary.

Headlights of a Carr
12-28-2006, 06:48 PM
That was the knock on VY, among other things - that it would take a few years for him to develop (ha).

He still has not developed as a passer! He is this generations Randall Cunningham who was also called "The Michael Jordan of Football". Let's see what VY does next year. I think he will have a slump next year as Mario flourishes.:marionaner:

Goldeagle
12-28-2006, 11:26 PM
Do you actually watch the games?

Yes I do, but I see him bull rush more than I would like. Lets see the agility rather than a bull rush and straight line running. I dont doubt its there, I mean why lie about it lol, but lets see more of it.

HJam72
12-29-2006, 12:19 AM
That's easy. Towards Freeney, one of the worst DEs in the league against the run. He's like Peek - so totally focused on getting to the QB that he can't keep containment.

This is what I'm waiting for:

Williams gets into the backfield early, but doesn't know if the hand-off was real or a fake--so, he tackles the RB with one arm and the QB with the other. Three players hit the turf. Turns out it was a fake, the QB had the ball, and it is now rolling toward the sideline.

I believe Mario could actually do this and it is symbolic of what is great about him. If he can start getting to the QB, when healthy and all that, he will be a holy terror against BOTH the run and the pass, unlike Freeney who's having nightmares about Ron Dayne right about now.

newport texan
12-29-2006, 12:54 AM
all I know is i watched him against Indy throw one tackle to the ground and knock the other one out of the game on the same play....nuff said

South Texan
12-29-2006, 02:45 AM
I wonder if the Mario pick will still be a major issue in 2010.

I understand the logic of picking Mario. At draft time, we thought Davis would return, McNair was committed to keeping Carr at all costs, and the year before, our D-Line sucked, so they tried to fix the weakest link. The draft is a crap shoot, all you can do is take a shot and hope. DeMeco looked OK in the draft, but I don't think anyone realized how good he would turn out to be.

Personally, I think Mario is catching on to life in the NFL and will be a real force next year once he gets healthy. Being at the mercy of Network TV I can't focus on him, but it seemed that he was getting double or even tripled a lot and the other teams were running away from him. I look at his situation like I do Dunta, he needs some help on the other side or in the middle. One more stud on the D-Line and fix the secondary, and I think our D will strike terror in the hearts of the oppisition.

ATX
12-29-2006, 06:26 AM
I'd be willing to bet that Indy would take Williams for Freeney straight up. And I wouldn't take that deal for the life of me. Williams will be a force to reckon with for years to come and will be the complete DE. He's already having an impact on teams game plans and this will only increase as time goes by.

With that said.....I can't wait to see a fully healthy Mario next year with a stud DT next to him.

OzzO
12-29-2006, 08:00 AM
You mean the "golden child (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4432068.html)"? :mario:

...The routine has worked out for Williams, though. He is the only starter on the defensive line not to land on injured reserve this season. On Sunday, Williams will become the only defensive lineman who has been on the active roster for every game.

He hasn't received many notes of congratulations from his teammates, who enjoy ribbing him more.

"I'm always getting talked about for not practicing 'the Golden Child,' and all this other (stuff)," Williams said, rolling his eyes. "That's what N.D. calls me."

Overhearing Williams' remarks in the locker room, Kalu defended the name he bestowed on the 21-year-old rookie.

"I'm 31 and I take all his reps during the week, and then he plays on Sunday," Kalu said...

... and an interesting rest of the article discussing the defense....

...The Texans haven't needed Williams to shoulder the entire load of the line, though. Thanks to general manager Rick Smith, the Texans have found players on the waiver wire capable of replacing starting tackles Seth Payne and Travis Johnson.

Lional Dalton (now on injured reserve), Cedric Killings, Thomas Johnson and Anthony Maddox were street free agents when the Texans called. They quickly became critical components in a defense that has improved despite the injuries....

...After Maddox was released by Jacksonville in September, the Texans signed him to the practice squad. He was added to the active roster on Oct. 10 and made his first start three weeks later against the Tennessee Titans.

"I was scared at first, I can't lie," said Maddox, who has 28 tackles and one sack. "I was scared. I was like, 'Man, I can't blow this.' "

Maddox hardly blew it. He has played so well he likely will be a fixture in the rotation next year.

"I think Maddox has been special," coach Gary Kubiak said. "I think we found a player that has got a chance to be a heck of a player."

With five defensive linemen on injured reserve, the Texans will have to make decisions about who stays and who goes in the offseason. Teammates are rallying around the newcomers....

thunderkyss
12-29-2006, 09:22 AM
The difference between Mario & Julius Peppers, and Jason Taylor, Schoebel, etc.. etc... is that Mario is our first piece.

Aaron Schoebel had a great year, playing in front of TakeoSpikes, and London Fletcher... then the Left DE spot also racked up 11.5 sacks.

Jullius Peppers... has Mike Ruckers on the other end.

Jason Taylor.... has Vonnie Holiday in the middle, ZachThomas behind him & Kevin Carter on the other side. Miami's defensive line has accounted for 38.5 sacks.... 13.5 belonging to Jason Taylor.

Our defensive line has accounted for 15.5...... with 4.5 belonging to Mario... 5 for Babin, and the only pressure up the middle is being applied by Demeco Ryans...

And we all know Mario isn't a pass rusher...... he can be.... we think he will be one of the best.... but that isn't his game. as a rookie he leads our defensive linemen with 45 tackles..... the closest to him, is Weaver with 35.

Mario is the best player on our defensive line... a 21 year old rookie...... I think we got what we paid for.

real
12-29-2006, 11:52 PM
I don't know about that....


Mario was definitely top three talent.....

Who ever gave me a negative rep for My sig....

I just wanted you to know that I lost a bet....to a Titan fan....

Thats why I'm sporting it....


Oh and your negative rep took away 1 whole point....

t_flare
12-29-2006, 11:57 PM
mario showed some flashes this season... a bunch of them probably 3 or 4 plays a game where you would go "Wow that could be a probowl player" but with his injuries we cant really see what he is fully capable of... maybe those bunches will be every down when healthy

thunderkyss
12-30-2006, 08:56 AM
mario showed some flashes this season... a bunch of them probably 3 or 4 plays a game where you would go "Wow that could be a probowl player" but with his injuries we cant really see what he is fully capable of... maybe those bunches will be every down when healthy

Even with the injury, he has more tackles than anyone else on the DL..... beating the closest player by 10.... & he is second on the team in sacks...

To me, that shows what kind of talent we have on our DL....

MrMeToo
12-30-2006, 02:55 PM
I'm going to give Mario a grade of INCOMPLETE this season due to his injury. However, he better show some more pass rush skills next year.

It's funny that people predicted Bush and Young to get injured because the way they run the ball in college and in the NFL ,yet Mario Williams is the player suffering from an injury.:(

TexansSeminole
12-30-2006, 02:59 PM
Even with the injury, he has more tackles than anyone else on the DL..... beating the closest player by 10.... & he is second on the team in sacks...

To me, that shows what kind of talent we have on our DL....

Yea. Hopefully next year Mario healthy will require so much attention from the other team that guys like TJ and Maddox can start producing more.

Right now Mario is controllable....he can be controlled with one blocker (most of the time) and dominated with two (I think this has alot to do with the injury). When he gets to the point where he can only be controlled with two blockers...our DL will be a force.

HJam72
12-30-2006, 03:02 PM
It's funny that people predicted Bush and Young to get injured because the way they run the ball in college and in the NFL ,yet Mario Williams is the player suffering from an injury.:(

Guess that is a little ironic, but what Williams has isn't exactly from getting hit and hurt or something. He just has foot problems that shouldn't be a long term problem.

GrandPa
12-31-2006, 10:30 AM
It is a good thing Mario is playing hurt, it gives y'all an extra year to try to justify this huge mistake of a draft pick...

He will never ever be worth either the money he is getting paid or the #1 overall pick...

Imagine "what should have been" instead of the reality of what the Texans did to us...

Tale Gator
12-31-2006, 10:37 AM
It is moronic that Mario is still out on the field when he is risking serious injury/ surgery with every snap.

Plantar fasciitis requires weeks of rest - we've been out of the playoff hunt for a long time. Why continue to risk the number one pick with serious damage?

Buckle
12-31-2006, 10:43 AM
Because the doctors have told him and the team that it won't get any worse to keep playing on it, it just won't get any better. Why would you pull him out?? Let him fight through a injury like this if he wants, it will make him a tougher player and make him rely more on technique then his power and speed, it actually works out somewhat well for him. Him playing right now is invaluable experience for his future years in the NFL let the kid play and keep impacting the offensive game planning of the other teams that we play.

The Pencil Neck
12-31-2006, 11:35 AM
It is a good thing Mario is playing hurt, it gives y'all an extra year to try to justify this huge mistake of a draft pick...

He will never ever be worth either the money he is getting paid or the #1 overall pick...

Imagine "what should have been" instead of the reality of what the Texans did to us...

Just shut up already.

Do you spend all your time thinking about things that happened years ago and constructing alternate realities in your mind where things turned out better for you? If you do, then you should stop. And at the same time, stop doing it for the Texans. The Texans are going to be fine. Mario Williams is going to be fine.

There is no way to know if we had drafted any other player with the first pick that they would have performed like they did in the situation they're in now because every situation is different. If we had drafted VY first (and I don't believe anyone was ever seriously considering taking him with the first pick), he probably would have sat out this entire year. Maybe the first two. Would you have been coming up excuses for why we were paying him 1st round money in that case or would you have been whining like you are now? If we had drafted RB first, he definitely would not have performed as well as he did with the Saints and he wasn't doing ANYTHING for the Saints until really late in the season. He's very lucky that he's had McAllister to take the majority of the carries. He's basically only had 1 or 2 good games even though Payton has been pulling out all the stops to try to make him successful. If we had drafted him and he was getting 3 ypc, would you be whining about paying him the big bucks?

We "should" have drafted Demeco Ryans with the first pick but we got him in the second round. So be happy with that.

dat_boy_yec
12-31-2006, 06:15 PM
Well, from my perspective he hasn't improved that much over the last half of the season. You can attribute that to his being injured and missing out so much practice, but he that's what it is. From the Giant's game to this game he hasn't shown anything new. He still relies to much on the bull rush, gives his numbers to the linemen and isn't getting to the QB enough. All that being said he should be better next yr. much better. With practice and full health he should really show improvement. However this season he didn't show much progress in the second half.

Mr teX
12-31-2006, 07:13 PM
It is a good thing Mario is playing hurt, it gives y'all an extra year to try to justify this huge mistake of a draft pick...

He will never ever be worth either the money he is getting paid or the #1 overall pick...

Imagine "what should have been" instead of the reality of what the Texans did to us...

God, will it ever end?

painekiller
12-31-2006, 07:19 PM
Well, from my perspective he hasn't improved that much over the last half of the season. You can attribute that to his being injured and missing out so much practice, but he that's what it is. From the Giant's game to this game he hasn't shown anything new. He still relies to much on the bull rush, gives his numbers to the linemen and isn't getting to the QB enough. All that being said he should be better next yr. much better. With practice and full health he should really show improvement. However this season he didn't show much progress in the second half.


Did you see the strip of the RB in the Indy game? That was a bull rush? I disagree that he did not improve, but that is just an opinion. Look at the little things, he got better, not at the speed he would have had he been able to practice, but he improved mentally.

sleepwalker
12-31-2006, 10:50 PM
We all know a first year players worth given the contract they sign is a multi year contract. :rolleyes:

He has improved, he has made a difference, he has played injured and he has garnered respect from other coaches and players in the NFL. And he has done all of that before he turns 22. We got a player who has a high ceiling and will now have 16 NFL games to build on this off season.

yea what he said!

Wharton
12-31-2006, 11:38 PM
While I'm not ready to declare Mario a bust just yet. If he performs like this next year, then I will say he's a bust.

I expect more from the No. 1 overall pick then what I've seen out of David and now Mario.

dtran04
01-01-2007, 12:10 AM
He did alright this year considering he doesn't practice all week.

GuerillaBlack
01-01-2007, 01:32 AM
He did alright this year considering he doesn't practice all week.

I don't think he has practiced at all since the week we played the Giants.