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View Full Version : Give Carr a chance????


wwffan99tx
12-27-2006, 04:42 PM
I've been pondering this and have come to the conclusion that I myself will give him 1 more year. Honestly, this is his rookie year in the NFL. The previous 4 years the Texans lacked talent and coaching to qualify as an NFL team. More like a CFL team. With that said, I looked at some stats and saw that in Plummers first year with Kubiak the team went 10-6 (he started 11 games). But he also had an O-LINE MUCH better than the Texans have and also had Clinton Portis in the backfield. Carr has shown some glimpses of growth although he has also played some of the worst QB in the league this year. Maybe the system is finally sinking in. Maybe he can be better next year under Kubiak. After all this is the first year he has had ANY coaching. What'cha think? :hides:

HJam72
12-27-2006, 04:49 PM
I think we should definitely play him for one more game. After that, I have no idea.

threetoedpete
12-27-2006, 04:50 PM
I'm with ya. that and that contract makes it prety hard not to believe other wise. I don't wanna turn into bacteria for sure. Steve Young struggled just a tad in Tamapa Bay befor he was snapped up by the 9ers. That worked out prety good for them. Comes to starting over with a rookie or standing pat. I'm on board with ya big guy. One thing is for certain...we ain't trading ten picks to get the water walker back.

But there are some who will.....


Keep Hope Alive !!!

ryansisgod
12-27-2006, 04:52 PM
people say he doesnt have the intangibles and what not, but i've seen some flashes of brillians, like the TD he dove in for vs the giants or the fake again the dolphins or more recently against the colts the pass that set up the fg. he may not be a superstar but we can win with him, we need a couple of linemen, and speedy RB. he may not be having the best season but he needs our support to succeed, we need to back him up in the browns game and the next season as well. however even with an improved oline he keeps fumbling and throwing 4 ints a game then hes out.

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 04:54 PM
If Carr plays another mistake free game vs. the Browns then the texans finished 3-2 in their last 5 games. I feel that would merit him a chance to COMPETE for the starting job in training camp. It's in everyone's interest for Carr to turn into a good QB with Kubiak's help but based on what I have seen for 5 years I don't think its very likely. If he wins against Cleveland and then plays well in preseason/training camp and shows Kubiak a bit more heart and dedication I think chances are he will be starting Week One for us. Do I think that is the way to go? No. But I think the Texans organization feels that is the way to go, Kubiak included.

If he performs poorly against the Browns, all bets are off....

DreDaMan05
12-27-2006, 04:55 PM
I agree wwff i was willing to get rid of him last year when the draft was deep with good quarterbacks. But Kubiak made a commitment to stick with Carr for 3 yrs., so the least they can do is give him another year to get it right. They must have seen something good about him the last 4 years to give him the contract. So just build around him next year and lets make the playoffs.....go Texans:redtowel: :yahoo:

Double Barrel
12-27-2006, 05:02 PM
If DC is our QB in 2007 (which my Magic 8 tells me "ask again later"), then I'll cheer him on accordingly. Should we part ways, I'll wish him the best and root for whoever plays QB for the Houston Texans. I have absolutely no choice in the matter, other than to root or not to root (is that the question?).

How's that for giving him another chance? :howdy: deserved criticism & praise is still fair game, tho'

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2006, 05:05 PM
If DC is our QB in 2007 (which my Magic 8 tells me "ask again later"), then I'll cheer him on accordingly. Should we part ways, I'll wish him the best and root for whoever plays QB for the Houston Texans. I have absolutely no choice in the matter, other than to root or not to root (is that the question?).

How's that for giving him another chance? :howdy: deserved criticism & praise is still fair game, tho'

If he is back and does not progress while the Texans fail to make it over .500 then Kubiak/Smith must make the playoffs in 2008 or they are done in my opinion. You cannot pay a premium for average and be competitive week in, week out in the NFL.

Double Barrel
12-27-2006, 05:12 PM
If he is back and does not progress while the Texans fail to make it over .500 then Kubiak/Smith must make the playoffs in 2008 or they are done in my opinion. You cannot pay a premium for average and be competitive week in, week out in the NFL.

yep, I agree. When they decided to hitch their wagon to that horse, they have to either ride into the glorious sunset of winning seasons or go off the cliff with it accordingly. :howdy:

The truth is, I'll be a Texans fan long after everyone involved (on the team) is long gone.

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 05:15 PM
I am slightly disappointed with Carr as I pegged him to have at least 18 TD's at the end of the season and be around 3,000 yards. I have no problem in bringing in a QB to push him and legitimately qualify for the starting spot based on prior accomplishments. Guys like Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummer fit that mold. If Carr however still beats them out then we can focus on other badly needed areas of the team; CB, S, OL.
That's not to say I don't want him back, because I do. I think he has 1 more year left in the Kubiak system to lead us to an above .500 record. With a solid offensive line and running game I think he can do this. We've already paid the bonus money so he stays, we can't keep crying over not taking Young, Bush or D'Brick (yes I said that). Give him and offense more meat in the trenches and solidify this scheme. this is our 1st year in this system folks from a team that was 2-14. Casserly and Capers were fired for a reason and I tend to think it wasn't all on David Carr. We can almost tripple our wins from 2005 this next game, that right there is something to build on.

the wonger need food
12-27-2006, 05:19 PM
Another year??? After next year all of the apologists will be asking for another year. Haven't we seen all we need to see in the first 5 years?

HomeBred_Texan
12-27-2006, 05:23 PM
I am also on the bandwagon that says give him another year. Since we did nothing last year with 3 QB's coming out that were all top notch, did I say that?, then this is NOT the year to pull the plug and try for a 4th rate QB coming out this year. I do not think for 1 minute Sage R is the guy either. Or Plummer, or Bledsoe, or Garcia, or Cunningham, or, well you get the point...

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 05:27 PM
I don't think Smith should be held accountable for the Carr debacle. He didn't have a hand in it to the best of my knowledge.

Now him being a good friend of Kubiak, he would probably leave or be fired if Kubiak came under the hot seat and was fired. McNair has shown patience with his HC and GM in the past (almost to a fault) but i actually prefer that method for ownership regarding those 2 positions.

Look at Pittsburgh as a model and to a lesser extent Baltimore/Billick, New England/Bilichik and Denver/Shanahan. Cowher had many bad seasons where the heat was on him. Fans wanted him gone. They kept him and he eventually rewarded the org and the fans and was pretty successful as a whole over the span of his career. When a player knows that the coach is in charge and isn't going anywhere anytime soon, they tend to buy into the system more.

The Steelers don't fire many coaches or front office personnel. Most get hired away by other teams. When that starts to happen you know you are on the right path.

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 05:32 PM
I am slightly disappointed with Carr as I pegged him to have at least 18 TD's at the end of the season and be around 3,000 yards. I have no problem in bringing in a QB to push him and legitimately qualify for the starting spot based on prior accomplishments. Guys like Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummer fit that mold. If Carr however still beats them out then we can focus on other badly needed areas of the team; CB, S, OL.
That's not to say I don't want him back, because I do. I think he has 1 more year left in the Kubiak system to lead us to an above .500 record. With a solid offensive line and running game I think he can do this. We've already paid the bonus money so he stays, we can't keep crying over not taking Young, Bush or D'Brick (yes I said that). Give him and offense more meat in the trenches and solidify this scheme. this is our 1st year in this system folks from a team that was 2-14. Casserly and Capers were fired for a reason and I tend to think it wasn't all on David Carr. We can almost tripple our wins from 2005 this next game, that right there is something to build on.

I may not be happy about it personally, but I think that is probably how things will shake out and how things will get spun by the org and media in general. I think you are right on target except I don't think we can afford to bring in a Garcia or Plummer and Carr and Sage. Both Carr and Sage are signed. Garcia and Plummer will probably be the cream of the crop in regards to Veteran QBs. I wouldn't have a problem with Carr coming back and competing against Sage for the job.

Garcia and Plummer can stay away. Maybe a Tim Rattay or who knows even a Tim Couch to come in and make it a 3 man race. Couch is a pretty damn good athlete and has been out of football a while. I wouldnt be against giving him the NFL minimum and seeing what he had left in the tank...not a lot of miles on those tires and he would be DIRT cheap

VY's Crib U Jus payn Rent
12-27-2006, 05:34 PM
I've been pondering this and have come to the conclusion that I myself will give him 1 more year. Honestly, this is his rookie year in the NFL. The previous 4 years the Texans lacked talent and coaching to qualify as an NFL team. More like a CFL team. With that said, I looked at some stats and saw that in Plummers first year with Kubiak the team went 10-6 (he started 11 games). But he also had an O-LINE MUCH better than the Texans have and also had Clinton Portis in the backfield. Carr has shown some glimpses of growth although he has also played some of the worst QB in the league this year. Maybe the system is finally sinking in. Maybe he can be better next year under Kubiak. After all this is the first year he has had ANY coaching. What'cha think? :hides:

I think you need to stop drining Bobby Mcnair's Kool-Aid it's giving you brain damage!

TheOgre
12-27-2006, 05:41 PM
Despite people whining about us not getting VY or Bush, this last year has been extremely productive in the advancement of this team.

Defensively, we switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3. We added three nice pieces to our front seven (Mario, Ryans, and Weaver) plus we rediscovered an existing one (Greenwood). The secondary needs work, but we are even more clear about where our strengths and weaknesses are on that side of the ball.

Offensively, we improved our receiving core (Moulds and Daniels) plus we found a nice power back (Dayne). Unfortunately the number of injuries on the line leave us with even more questions about that unit and that side of the ball as a whole. As for our embattled QB, Carr? He looks less and less like the man that will be here for our first playoff appearance. We do, however, seem to have a solid backup QB in Sage Rosenfels.

The special teams have some work as well. Mathis has more hamstring issues than Donte Stallworth, but, his replacement, Wynn has done an admirable job. Chad Stanley seems to have played his way off the team after this season, but the verdict is still out on Kris Brown.

If this next offseason goes well, I could see us with a .500 or better record in 2007. Can we do it? Lets just have some faith.

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 05:47 PM
Despite people whining about us not getting VY or Bush, this last year has been extremely productive in the advancement of this team.

Defensively, we switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3. We added three nice pieces to our front seven (Mario, Ryans, and Weaver) plus we rediscovered an existing one (Greenwood). The secondary needs work, but we are even more clear about where our strengths and weaknesses are on that side of the ball.

Offensively, we improved our receiving core (Moulds and Daniels) plus we found a nice power back (Dayne). Unfortunately the number of injuries on the line leave us with even more questions about that unit and that side of the ball as a whole. As for our embattled QB, Carr? He looks less and less like the man that will be here for our first playoff appearance. We do, however, seem to have a solid backup QB in Sage Rosenfels.

The special teams have some work as well. Mathis has more hamstring issues than Donte Stallworth, but, his replacement, Wynn has done an admirable job. Chad Stanley seems to have played his way off the team after this season, but the verdict is still out on Kris Brown.

If this next offseason goes well, I could see us with a .500 or better record in 2007. Can we do it? Lets just have some faith.

I agree man. They elevated their talent level greatly this offseason. When you throw in thomas johnson, maddox, and vashon lane into the puzzle as late additions, they have really made a lot of really shrewd moves. They still need some more depth at OL and a healthy Flanagan at Center but I think even the much-betrodden OL shows some great promise for the future.

I feel the Texans' holes are FS, Pass Rushing OLB or DE, RB depth, and OL depth. I think Smith has managed to help our DT depth and our FB situation on the fly. Kudos to him. QB is a hole but I think Sage could come in and possibly fill it and if he can't we got a Carr that is already bought and paid for even if it kinda sucks imho.

ArlingtonTexan
12-27-2006, 05:47 PM
I am also on the bandwagon that says give him another year. Since we did nothing last year with 3 QB's coming out that were all top notch, did I say that?, then this is NOT the year to pull the plug and try for a 4th rate QB coming out this year. I do not think for 1 minute Sage R is the guy either. Or Plummer, or Bledsoe, or Garcia, or Cunningham, or, well you get the point...

I am on record stating that I believe that Carr is an average inconsistent QB and that is what he is until something on the field makes me change that opinion. That said, when I look at the list of suspects there is not one of those guys who automaticaly is any improvement from Carr. I think same dog different fleas. In 2007, odds are against the Texans having any better QBing that Carr provides and most likely see manage the game football from whoever is under center. Overall, not excited about the prospects of waiting out a rookie for two or three years, a veteran stop gap or Carr.

Keyser Soze
12-27-2006, 05:54 PM
In 2007, odds are against the Texans having any better QBing that Carr provides and most likely see manage the game football from whoever is under center. Overall, not excited about the prospects of waiting out a rookie for two or three years, a veteran stop gap or Carr.

In other words, we missed the boat. A lot of people feel that way, but the ship sailed, so we'll just have to see if the tide washes up a seaworthy dinghy.



Whew. There's all my nautical references for the day. Gotta get those clichés in somehow...

ArlingtonTexan
12-27-2006, 06:11 PM
In other words, we missed the boat. A lot of people feel that way, but the ship sailed, so we'll just have to see if the tide washes up a seaworthy dinghy.



Whew. There's all my nautical references for the day. Gotta get those clichés in somehow...

As long as somebody does not attempt to sell me something else, I understand that you can win in the NFL with manager style QBs. This means that the FO should spend the off season developing a salty defense, up grading the OL, and finding another skill position player or two. Make the rest of the team better, and let it drag the QB position along. As long as we win.

Grid
12-27-2006, 06:34 PM
If the coaches decide to bring him back for another year.. im not gonna give up on him. But, I would definatly berate them if they didnt go into next season with a backup plan.. meaning, draft someone, sign a vet.. something.

And id want them to have less patience with him as well.. if he is making the same mistakes, bench him and go to the backup plan.

TexanLen
12-27-2006, 06:40 PM
Man o' man!! Decisions, decisions. Well, since i am just a fan and they won't listen to me anyway, i say uhhh... retracting what i said after the very upsetting Titans game, i wouldn't mind if he got another chance. Let's get the O' line healthy, get DD back, use the second coming of Bettis in Ron Dayne, and see what he does. If we don't get a good RB in the draft, I wouldn't mind a bad a** O'lineman or DB. :ok:

dantem
12-27-2006, 07:10 PM
I'm in agreement with this, but since I'm a "replace the O-Line" proponent that has been my opinion every year. This year more than others since we are starting to build a pretty good team. I just cannot see justifying paying another average QB his salary + the money it cost us to release Carr while there are many more deserving and cost effective changes that can be made instead.

I say release the guys that always play below average, and keep Carr. Because although people cannot seem to remember anything good that Carr has done. I do. even this year IMHO. Besides that, He is like gumby, he just wont break. and if you do ever head towards the playoffs, that is a major plus.:)

MrMeToo
12-27-2006, 07:38 PM
How many chances can he get! It's his 5th year! He's not a rookie like some of you'll say. Stop blaming everyone else for Carr's faults. He should have made some progress over the years, but he still looks like a rookie to me. You'll think just because of the win vs. the Colts, or a couple of nice plays, that he's turned the corner. But he hasn't.

rollinstone18
12-27-2006, 07:57 PM
I'd rather have Carr as the starting qb in 2007. His season thus far hasn't been dismal like some people on this board make it out to be, though he has been, without a question, been disappointing at times. But, he fits Kubiak's system, he just needs a solid, healthy o-line and a dependable rb. The lack of a running game this season hurt,it's a necessity the Denver-style offense. That and I'm not very impressed with the eligible qb's in the 07 draft.

afcman
12-27-2006, 08:27 PM
I myself will give him 1 more year.

If the Texans decide to keep him....then that's ALL I will give him, i.e., one more year. Personally I think it's best for us and for HIM to part ways.

OzzO
12-27-2006, 10:23 PM
... Maybe the system is finally sinking in. Maybe he can be better next year under Kubiak. After all this is the first year he has had ANY coaching. What'cha think?

Give Carr a chance - to do what? What's the expectation of what he can do that hasn't been shown yet? Not to bash, just an honest question - similar to what was noted above, this is year 5 for him. To be the #1 pick of a franchise, regardless of non-coaching or having some - wouldn't we think he should show some kind of growth / improvement on his own, or is he still on the learning curve after 5 years in the NFL? Waiting for someone to show him the way, to "feed him"?

Unless something was shown in his college years that is drastically different than what we've seen in the NFL years, I'm thinking Carr is a "managable" QB that will not so much carry a team to win the game - good or bad.

Another interesting item is that quite a few posters compare Plummer to Carr under Kubiak's training - are they defintely the same "student"? Are the on the same level of wanting to learn, making the effort to learn, been through similar "rough times" pre their Kubiak-enrichment? Did Plummer need to get his footwork corrected, stop locking onto a reciever, not hear defensive footsteps even when they weren't close?

Again, not to bash - just questioning. I think Carr is a great person, but the question is about his football skills. Ditto Grid above though, if he does come back, more power to him - but the powers that be better have a plan B in the wings, just in case.

Imatexanfan
12-27-2006, 10:32 PM
Everyone worries about Carr but it took what 5 years for someone to at least start to address our most glaring problem not OL, thats BS. This year was a start but far too few and no depth. :secret:

While we have made nice moves on DL, we just totally wrecked our Defensive Secondary because we didn't want to pay a few bucks to keep some veterans to help out. We have recievers that can't seem to manage to get open and when they do either Carr doesn't get them the ball or they drop it. Speaking for the "Franchise Keeper", but not complaining.:shades:

Number19
12-27-2006, 10:52 PM
...Again, not to bash - just questioning. I think Carr is a great person, but the question is about his football skills. Ditto Grid above though, if he does come back, more power to him - but the powers that be better have a plan B in the wings, just in case.This past Sunday's win against the Colts perfectly illustrates the type of game Kubiak wants with his system. He wants a QB who can manage a game and not make mistakes.

The Colts defensive line is not top rate and our offensive line was able to perform admirably. We need to upgrade and improve out OL to the point where we can produce this level of running game against a better defense. If we do this, Carr will be under less pressure and will be adequate to run Kubiak's offense, cetainly, in the short term.

I'm predicting Carr will be a Texan next season and will go into training camp number one on the depth chart. However, for the first time, he will not be guaranteed a starting position opening day. He will have to earn/keep his starting position.

Hervoyel
12-27-2006, 10:54 PM
If Carr plays another mistake free game vs. the Browns then the texans finished 3-2 in their last 5 games. I feel that would merit him a chance to COMPETE for the starting job in training camp. It's in everyone's interest for Carr to turn into a good QB with Kubiak's help but based on what I have seen for 5 years I don't think its very likely. If he wins against Cleveland and then plays well in preseason/training camp and shows Kubiak a bit more heart and dedication I think chances are he will be starting Week One for us. Do I think that is the way to go? No. But I think the Texans organization feels that is the way to go, Kubiak included.

If he performs poorly against the Browns, all bets are off....


I don't see how anyone can ask for more than that.

threetoedpete
12-27-2006, 11:10 PM
I don't see how anyone can ask for more than that.

All I'm asking for. However, if they aren't going to support him...or as the keep hope alive crowd says , "elevated the team arond him to mask his defeciantcies"...I'm still scratching my head on that one since the higest ranking o-lineman we've ever drafted is at the 50 spot... then I hope they settle with him and let him go.

Number19
12-27-2006, 11:32 PM
All I'm asking for. However, if they aren't going to support him...or as the keep hope alive crowd says , "elevated the team arond him to mask his defeciantcies"...I'm still scratching my head on that one since the higest ranking o-lineman we've ever drafted is at the 50 spot... then I hope they settle with him and let him go.I hope it's not just wishful dreaming, but I really think we'll take an OL'man on the first day.

We'll be drafting no lower than #9 and, with a win Sunday, possibly as high as #7. Joe Thomas will probably not be available. If he is, I have mixed feelings about taking him. The Huddle Report's Drew Boylhart writes that he has an attitude problem with run blocking ( he is an outstanding pass blocker ). Kubiak's system is built around the running game, so I'm uncertain how good a fit Thomas would be for our team.

No other OL'man rates a top ten pick - unless Jake Long changes his mind and does come out. So I guess what I'm hoping is that we take an OLT with our second pick.

edo783
12-27-2006, 11:46 PM
[quote=Number19;553610The Huddle Report's Drew Boylhart writes that he has an attitude problem with run blocking ( he is an outstanding pass blocker ). .[/quote]

That's kind of odd if true. Most O-line guys much prefere to run block. They get to go smack the other guy rather than being in more of a defensive type mode that pass blocking requires.

Number19
12-28-2006, 12:10 AM
That's kind of odd if true. Most O-line guys much prefere to run block. They get to go smack the other guy rather than being in more of a defensive type mode that pass blocking requires.It's just one scouts opinion and is why I have mixed thoughts on this player. It's quite possible it's simply a wrong analysis of observable play and that, instead, maybe Thomas is not fully recovered mentally and physically from his injury. The important thing, though, is that he thinks his run blocking is considerably below the level required for NFL play and will require considerable improvement.

Second Honeymoon
12-28-2006, 12:18 AM
I think Thomas will be picked within the first 4 picks. Detroit, Arizona, Cleveland, or Detroit would all have to consider taking him. This should allow us to have our pick between one of the defensive studs or perhaps an Adrian Petersen or God help us Calvin Johnson. I think the surer thing is going with Branch, Adams, Landry, or Hall (all defense) but with Petersen you get a high ceiling and another playmaker on offense. Running Kubiak's system I dont think we need to invest a pick on Petersen. Now, if Johnson fell to our lap I cant see any scenario where we could pass on that talent.

as for Carr (which is what this thread is about), as long as he finishes the season strong, I don't see any scenario where he wont be back to compete for the job. I do think his term as the anointed starter is over...he will have to compete to get the job. The coddling and over sensitivity towards his ego/feelings has gotten us nowhere. Take the silver spoon out his mouth and make him earn his job just like the rest of the guys.

Wharton
12-28-2006, 12:36 AM
Give Carr a chance. What a bunch of crap!

I'm still trying to figure out why we had to suffer through another season with him at the helm. There is absolutely no reason why this franchise couldn't watch the tapes of DC last year and see that he is not a starting QB. Again, this is crap!

The one fault I've seen with Kubes is he believed the hype. Just because he could bring back Jake Plummer from QB obscurity does not mean that you can fix every QB that comes down the pipe. Another pile of crap!

Carr should have been benched after the first Tennessee loss when Sage came in and out played him and yet he is still our starting QB. Again, this is crap!

I've forgotten, how many games has he gone without a TD pass? How many QB in the NFL could go as long as Carr did this season with out a TD pass and still have a starting position? ZERO. That's how many!! Crap!

Give Carr a chance?!? What a load of CRAP!!!!

:bag:

whotex8
12-28-2006, 01:33 AM
Wow....I've never seen so much crap!
Is that your final answer............Crap?

HOOK'EM
12-28-2006, 01:42 AM
He's shown us he sucks, now its time for him to go.

Nighthawk
12-28-2006, 02:41 AM
If Carr plays another mistake free game vs. the Browns then the texans finished 3-2 in their last 5 games. I feel that would merit him a chance to COMPETE for the starting job in training camp. It's in everyone's interest for Carr to turn into a good QB with Kubiak's help but based on what I have seen for 5 years I don't think its very likely. If he wins against Cleveland and then plays well in preseason/training camp and shows Kubiak a bit more heart and dedication I think chances are he will be starting Week One for us. Do I think that is the way to go? No. But I think the Texans organization feels that is the way to go, Kubiak included.

If he performs poorly against the Browns, all bets are off....

2nd, you disgrace the avatar!
Carr deserves a trade or other ticket out of town.

I can't believe after 5 years of this awful play people are STILL saying give him one more year.

You don't make this decision on 1 or 2 games, you make on FIVE YEARS OF DISMAL PERFORMANCES.

Boggles the mind.

jayjordan
12-28-2006, 04:55 AM
2nd, you disgrace the avatar!
Carr deserves a trade or other ticket out of town.

I can't believe after 5 years of this awful play people are STILL saying give him one more year.

You don't make this decision on 1 or 2 games, you make on FIVE YEARS OF DISMAL PERFORMANCES.

Boggles the mind.


DISMAL PERFORMANCES.......nicely put.

HOOK'EM
12-28-2006, 05:08 AM
5 years was plenty of time!

tsip
12-28-2006, 07:31 AM
As long as somebody does not attempt to sell me something else, I understand that you can win in the NFL with manager style QBs. This means that the FO should spend the off season developing a salty defense, up grading the OL, and finding another skill position player or two. Make the rest of the team better, and let it drag the QB position along. As long as we win.


...we get a pay cut at QB,right?...and what about a guarantee that we get some more victories because--if we don't--there will just be more excuses for our 'manager style qb'

ArlingtonTexan
12-28-2006, 09:41 AM
...we get a pay cut at QB,right?...and what about a guarantee that we get some more victories because--if we don't--there will just be more excuses for our 'manager style qb'

From the check that McNair writes this year maybe...but the salary cap savings (the finances needed to get players) is not that great whether he is cut or traded and then add back in the cost of a new player, the texans will be on the salary hook for around the same amount either way. The exact numbers are floating around the board somewhere, i will edit this post when I find them.

If you did not catch my ealrier post, I believe that the Texans will have manager style QBing in 2007 whether its Carr, Sage, one of the spare veterans people keep throwing around, or a rookie.

LORENZOF33
12-28-2006, 04:48 PM
Give Carr a chance. What a bunch of crap!

I'm still trying to figure out why we had to suffer through another season with him at the helm. There is absolutely no reason why this franchise couldn't watch the tapes of DC last year and see that he is not a starting QB. Again, this is crap!

The one fault I've seen with Kubes is he believed the hype. Just because he could bring back Jake Plummer from QB obscurity does not mean that you can fix every QB that comes down the pipe. Another pile of crap!

Carr should have been benched after the first Tennessee loss when Sage came in and out played him and yet he is still our starting QB. Again, this is crap!

I've forgotten, how many games has he gone without a TD pass? How many QB in the NFL could go as long as Carr did this season with out a TD pass and still have a starting position? ZERO. That's how many!! Crap!

Give Carr a chance?!? What a load of CRAP!!!!

:bag:

I concur Sir!!!

TexansFanatic
12-28-2006, 08:48 PM
I have no problem with the "game manager" blueprint. It has worked for a number of championship teams. What will really give me hope is if the Chicago Bears win the Super Bowl this year, because their QB is hurting them/helping them just like Carr and yet they are the winningest team in the NFC...

edo783
12-28-2006, 09:52 PM
I have no problem with the "game manager" blueprint. It has worked for a number of championship teams. What will really give me hope is if the Chicago Bears win the Super Bowl this year, because their QB is hurting them/helping them just like Carr and yet they are the winningest team in the NFC...

Works for me.

AggieTexanFan
12-28-2006, 10:06 PM
Carr saved his job after the Indy game IMO because it was the first time all season that we saw what Kubes wanted to do Offensively.

Pound the rock
Pass when you have to
Let the run protect your pass protection (0 Sacks)
No giveaways (0 fumbles, 0 INTS)

I think this game showed Kubes that he needs better OL
That we have the talent in the backfield to run the ball
Carr can manage the game in his system
The Texans can beat elite teams
Carr can play mistake free football
We need a better Defense, Peyton still had his way with us

I believe Kubes and Smith continue to go defense in the draft and bring in 1-3 quality FAs per year

But Carr will be back, and i don't think that is a bad thing considering we more pressing needs this team has

SLO Texan
12-28-2006, 10:13 PM
Carr saved his job after the Indy game IMO because it was the first time all season that we saw what Kubes wanted to do Offensively.

Pound the rock
Pass when you have to
Let the run protect your pass protection (0 Sacks)
No giveaways (0 fumbles, 0 INTS)

I think this game showed Kubes that he needs better OL
That we have the talent in the backfield to run the ball
Carr can manage the game in his system
The Texans can beat elite teams
Carr can play mistake free football
We need a better Defense, Peyton still had his way with us

I believe Kubes and Smith continue to go defense in the draft and bring in 1-3 quality FAs per year

But Carr will be back, and i don't think that is a bad thing considering we more pressing needs this team has

Nice post !!! I agree with everything you said 100 %!!!

Continue to build our D while finding the "right" players for our system at RB/OL. If Kubiak can get that whole zone blocking thing working consistently our offense will become more consistent. that's where it all starts ya know.

QB75
12-28-2006, 10:16 PM
Give Carr a chance. What a bunch of crap!

I'm still trying to figure out why we had to suffer through another season with him at the helm. There is absolutely no reason why this franchise couldn't watch the tapes of DC last year and see that he is not a starting QB. Again, this is crap!

The one fault I've seen with Kubes is he believed the hype. Just because he could bring back Jake Plummer from QB obscurity does not mean that you can fix every QB that comes down the pipe. Another pile of crap!

Carr should have been benched after the first Tennessee loss when Sage came in and out played him and yet he is still our starting QB. Again, this is crap!

I've forgotten, how many games has he gone without a TD pass? How many QB in the NFL could go as long as Carr did this season with out a TD pass and still have a starting position? ZERO. That's how many!! Crap!

Give Carr a chance?!? What a load of CRAP!!!!

:bag:

Pipe down and take a deep breath. They will win Sunday and go with Carr and Rosenfels in 2007 while they build up the rest of the team. Well deserved!

Wharton
12-29-2006, 12:40 AM
Pipe down and take a deep breath. They will win Sunday and go with Carr and Rosenfels in 2007 while they build up the rest of the team. Well deserved!Yep, as usual, its someone else’s fault. Carr is such a good QB that it must be the rest of the teams fault.

I must be a mushroom, just put me in a warm, moist area and feed me crap.

Wow....I've never seen so much crap!
Is that your final answer............Crap?If you’ve got a better word, I’ll consider it. But I think Crap pretty much sums it up.

Can I get a dot sitting on the pot?

QB75
01-27-2007, 07:13 PM
[QUOTE=Wharton;554714]Yep, as usual, its someone else’s fault. Carr is such a good QB that it must be the rest of the teams fault.

I must be a mushroom, just put me in a warm, moist area and feed me crap.

Given your observations, the comparison to a mushroom seems about right.

HoustonFrog
01-27-2007, 07:17 PM
Yep, as usual, its someone else’s fault. Carr is such a good QB that it must be the rest of the teams fault.

I must be a mushroom, just put me in a warm, moist area and feed me crap.

If you’ve got a better word, I’ll consider it. But I think Crap pretty much sums it up.

Can I get a dot sitting on the pot?

I can't believe people are so content to watch the same stuff year in and year out. I'll keep reposting this because it actually makes sense but if fans want to sit around and give a guy a 6th year to see if he can learn to stop eye raping receivers before throwing to them and learn how to throw it into the bench when outside the pocket, then you have no clue. I think the Carr situation took on a life of its own a couple of years back. The problem now is that you have players(IMHO), fans and coaches who aren't sure if they can trust the guy in games and who are tired of the rhetoric. People are already off his bandwagon by a country mile. After 5 years he still hasn't shown that he can master the basics of being an NFL QB and even with competition you are still setting yourself up for those who will boo and want your backup or they will boo and want to hold onto their Carr fantasy like they have too long already. It sets up for a team divided. The best bet is to ship him off, wish him luck and hope you both do better with a change of scenery. We can get a FA QB who is probably a better fit at this time and we can draft a guy to groom. All in all the whole "Carr" fiasco won't be a lingering cloud like it has been for the last 2 years. The only thing I see competition as bringing at this point is team and fan base divided and debating a year too long.

QB75
01-27-2007, 07:30 PM
I can't believe people are so content to watch the same stuff year in and year out. I'll keep reposting this because it actually makes sense but if fans want to sit around and give a guy a 6th year to see if he can learn to stop eye raping receivers before throwing to them and learn how to throw it into the bench when outside the pocket, then you have no clue. I think the Carr situation took on a life of its own a couple of years back. The problem now is that you have players(IMHO), fans and coaches who aren't sure if they can trust the guy in games and who are tired of the rhetoric. People are already off his bandwagon by a country mile. After 5 years he still hasn't shown that he can master the basics of being an NFL QB and even with competition you are still setting yourself up for those who will boo and want your backup or they will boo and want to hold onto their Carr fantasy like they have too long already. It sets up for a team divided. The best bet is to ship him off, wish him luck and hope you both do better with a change of scenery. We can get a FA QB who is probably a better fit at this time and we can draft a guy to groom. All in all the whole "Carr" fiasco won't be a lingering cloud like it has been for the last 2 years. The only thing I see competition as bringing at this point is team and fan base divided and debating a year too long.

1) He's going to camp. 2) I'm glad to hear it.

Mr. White
01-27-2007, 08:23 PM
1) He's going to camp. 2) I'm glad to hear it.

Sound logic for keeping Carr around. :ok:

Sounds like Bob McNair already told everybody in Houston with the last name of Carr that they can plan on staying another year.

Nighthawk
01-27-2007, 08:43 PM
I've been pondering this and have come to the conclusion that I myself will give him 1 more year. Honestly, this is his rookie year in the NFL. The previous 4 years the Texans lacked talent and coaching to qualify as an NFL team. More like a CFL team. With that said, I looked at some stats and saw that in Plummers first year with Kubiak the team went 10-6 (he started 11 games). But he also had an O-LINE MUCH better than the Texans have and also had Clinton Portis in the backfield. Carr has shown some glimpses of growth although he has also played some of the worst QB in the league this year. Maybe the system is finally sinking in. Maybe he can be better next year under Kubiak. After all this is the first year he has had ANY coaching. What'cha think? :hides:

Oh, please. Can anyone still be this ignorant about David Carr? Hey! He's HALFWAY THROUGH WITH HIS CAREER! WE'VE ALREADY SQUANDERED FIVE YEARS ON THIS LOSER!

It's time to try someone new.

HoustonFrog
01-27-2007, 10:35 PM
1) He's going to camp. 2) I'm glad to hear it.

Wow, thanks for the detailed follow up on facts and logic. Hope your happy with the dissension. I know a ton of team in the history of the NFL that have given guys a 6th year to learn basic tenents of being an NFL QB..I mean Couch..errr...never mind.

threetoedpete
01-27-2007, 10:52 PM
Wow, thanks for the detailed follow up on facts and logic. Hope your happy with the dissension. I know a ton of team in the history of the NFL that have given guys a 6th year to learn basic tenents of being an NFL QB..I mean Couch..errr...never mind.

We kinda threw those out the window after Bosselli and the five stooges didn't we ? Year six and you guys are going to pass on another OLT prospect.
Maybe we can make a deal and bring back Wand...or your second most echoed popular coice...move Pitts out there again.

Dime
01-27-2007, 10:52 PM
Again....

For the 30th time i post this..

Carr needs to move into a venue where people and the team has faith in his abilities. At No time in the past, save the 1st year, did Carr have this worth. IMO, he is worth a second pick in the upcoming draft. He had a decent pass percentage this year, and will never be of the trade value that he is right now. He needs a team that will have a new faith in him, and his coach, team and many of Houstons fans have already lost a degree of confidence with him. Even though this year was better, it wasnt enough to restore the confience that has been lost. He needs a team where he can start fresh. It wont be Houston. For them to part ways benefits everyone right now.

Two,
Personally, I think he made alot progress this year, but even the best fan of Carr must admit that in the fifith year, that progress should have been sooner. I think it aint his fault because he wasnt taught when he came here, he was worshipped and not challenged. That goes to peoples head, and had never been trained till Kub came here. Kub did good to instruct him, but it just wasnt enough...

HoustonFrog
01-27-2007, 11:40 PM
We kinda threw those out the window after Bosselli and the five stooges didn't we. Year six and you guys are going to pass on another OLT prospect.
Maybe we can make a deal and bring back Wand...or your second most echoed popular coice...move Pitts out there again.

No, but considering we are in age if parity and free agency where elite to good QBs learn to work behind less than stellar lines and below average receiving corps, etc it would be nice to see progress. I mean after year 5 should an NFL QB not be able to get outside the pocket and once there realize that the large D lineman closing in on him deserves a throw out of bound vs a 3 yard loss and a cower. Also not many 5th year QBs make love to their receivers and wink at them before throwing to them. I've seen 1st rounders come and go and most teams move on. I guess with the salary cap and parity we should protect him from injuries, and put him in a plastic bubble?If we are ever going to move on and give Carr and the Texans reasons to grow, it is now. Moving different directions is a must. When you are on a bad team and it is 3rd an long vs a rival and your coach calls a draw play in enemy territory and settles for a tie..you know even your own have lost faith.

threetoedpete
01-28-2007, 12:10 AM
No, but considering we are in age if parity and free agency where elite to good QBs learn to work behind less than stellar lines and below average receiving corps, etc it would be nice to see progress. I mean after year 5 should an NFL QB not be able to get outside the pocket and once there realize that the large D lineman closing in on him deserves a throw out of bound vs a 3 yard loss and a cower. Also not many 5th year QBs make love to their receivers and wink at them before throwing to them. I've seen 1st rounders come and go and most teams move on. I guess with the salary cap and parity we should protect him from injuries, and put him in a plastic bubble?If we are ever going to move on and give Carr and the Texans reasons to grow, it is now. Moving different directions is a must. When you are on a bad team and it is 3rd an long vs a rival and your coach calls a draw play in enemy territory and settles for a tie..you know even your own have lost faith.


And just who would that be that feilded two over the hill centers, a fifth rounder, a second teired RG, and a third round prospect who the coaches stated puplicly was not ready, a nine year gray beard as their starters after the second game ? Just which team(s) are we talking it about here ? Again snapper head, I stand by the original post. All Logic and reasoning was lost long ago on you guys. Plastic Bubble no. Decent line...yes. DC is probably gone. Why you guys are still obsessing over it is anyones guess. But, untill you fix what has been broken for five years, all your rage and frustration are waisted untill they fix the o-line...no matter who the RB or QB are. My hope is that All Day is the pick. they do bring in a seconded teired QB replacement. And we get the same thing version Duex. Then ,only God knows who'll be the flavor of the year you guys will rail against and shake you fists at. But one thing is for certain...it won't be the tallent on the o-line.

t_flare
01-28-2007, 12:13 AM
If he stays, (I want to) then he (like Mario) need to win the fans back... How? Not by putting up stats... they need to step it up and their team to step it up and win... bottom line...

Yes I know people say 5 years. Year 3 was a badass one but I dont want to talk about it... Lets ask other question?

Its been 5 years since we, the world can say "The Houston Texans have a average offensive line".. It has always been "The Houston Texans O-Line are the most overpaid... untalented worst 5 ect..

When has our Defense ever get close to top ten other than Year One when you had your vets (Glenn Sharper) in their prime? Last 2 year somewhere near 28-32 in the rankings?

When can we say "Hey he is our franshise running back" We never had faith in DDW to stay healthy. Last year the running game was hit or miss.... 20 yards rushing or 100 yard rushing (mostly toward the end).

I know its hard for you to have patience... But look

You got rid of the office last year and brought in a new staff. I see it as Year 1 again.

From being the worst team in the League you are 6-10 8th worst. You led the NFL in players on IR. That is not bad. You had to work with some of Dom Capers players to put in your scheme. Carr had his 4th offense to learn in 2 years (after 04 they change it to short passes with Palmer, then Palmer got fired, then Kubiak).. Ask Vick how hard it is to keep changing the Offense.. Ask Manning he had one all his career.

Can Carr be a Payton, Brady? Probably No... but can he be a Trent Green, Matt Hassellback... probably

and my last line is... After watching Rex Grossman last week... I feel good we have Carr.

HoustonFrog
01-28-2007, 01:05 AM
And just who would that be that feilded two over the hill centers, a fifth rounder, a second teired RG, and a third round prospect who the coaches stated puplicly was not ready, a nine year gray beard as their starters after the second game ? Just which team(s) are we talking it about here ? Again snapper head, I stand by the original post. All Logic and reasoning was lost long ago on you guys. Plastic Bubble no. Decent line...yes. DC is probably gone. Why you guys are still obsessing over it is anyones guess. But, untill you fix what has been broken for five years, all your rage and frustration are waisted untill they fix the o-line...no matter who the RB or QB are. My hope is that All Day is the pick. they do bring in a seconded teired QB replacement. And we get the same thing version Duex. Then ,only God knows who'll be the flavor of the year you guys will rail against and shake you fists at. But one thing is for certain...it won't be the tallent on the o-line.

What does that have to do with anything in my post? Seriously, I am trying to understand this. What do these excuses have to do with the guy not gaining the basic knowledge to be a QB?My post pattern isn't to berate Carr and be an angry poster. I think most know that. I'm really objective. I'm trying to be a person who talks football and am trying and figure out why we are giving a 5 year vet more excuses than any player in NFL history. If anyone doesn't think that next year, despite competiton, isn't going to be a wasted effort of fans, media, mangement and players splitting themselves over who should be QB, your fooling yourselves. Let everyone be free and get a second chance to move on.

Napa Auto Parts
01-28-2007, 01:07 AM
We Should be fair with David Carr i mean he's only had 5 seasons to prove he can play this game lets give David another 5 years its only fair :sarcasm:

SamuraiSword
01-28-2007, 09:28 AM
So how many alternate screen names were used in this thread?:hides:

I think maybe we just need to change the color of the Texans uniform to Fresno colors. I think that is what is messing with his QB mechanics. :stirpot:

Kaiser Toro
01-28-2007, 09:52 AM
Everyone hold hands and sing:

"All we are say-ing, is give Carr a chance."

Dime
01-28-2007, 11:21 AM
Everyone hold hands and sing:

"All we are say-ing, is give Carr a chance."

Give Carr a chance...

So we have people ask us to give him a chance...

Lets break this down.

He was the first pick of a draft 5 years ago.. I think we gave him a chance to lead our franchise there... there is one chance.

He started that year even over a vetern in a horrible Toby Banks. Chance two.

He has started effectively for the last five years even after some horrible play at times, 16 x 5 = 80 chances

He has had a huge amount of chances. Quit say give him a chance.. we have!

2BCF
01-28-2007, 11:40 AM
Give Carr a chance...

So we have people ask us to give him a chance...

Lets break this down.

He was the first pick of a draft 5 years ago.. I think we gave him a chance to lead our franchise there... there is one chance.

He started that year even over a vetern in a horrible Toby Banks. Chance two.

He has started effectively for the last five years even after some horrible play at times, 16 x 5 = 80 chances

He has had a huge amount of chances. Quit say give him a chance.. we have!

I think the only ones that are fighting for Carr to stay are those that have a vested interest in him.
He'll be a 6 year rookie next year, let's hope and pray it's somewhere else.

Let's not forget the last locker room interview this season.
When Carr was asked if he wanted to return to the Texans next year despite the rumours and why? His 1ST response was yes he wanted to return because... MOVING IS A MAJOR HASSLE.
Just say the word Davey, we'll all help you pack!

Double Barrel
01-28-2007, 11:45 AM
Everyone hold hands and sing:

"All we are say-ing, is give Carr a chance."

Give Carr a chance...

So we have people ask us to give him a chance...

If you know KT, you'd know his tongue was firmly planted in cheek before making that post to hold hands and sing "All we are say-ing, is give Carr a chance." :winky:

ArlingtonTexan
01-28-2007, 02:38 PM
If you know KT, you'd know his tongue was firmly planted in cheek before making that post to hold hands and sing "All we are say-ing, is give Carr a chance." :winky:

I guess a little John and Oko audio would have helped clarified KT's humor.

QB75
01-28-2007, 08:07 PM
Wow, thanks for the detailed follow up on facts and logic. Hope your happy with the dissension. I know a ton of team in the history of the NFL that have given guys a 6th year to learn basic tenents of being an NFL QB..I mean Couch..errr...never mind.

Facts and logic? There is very little of that on these boards. I'm just passing on what I hear. No one wants to believe it now, but as February and March pass without anything happening and we near the draft, the fans will realize that the team is taking a path of building through the draft with the best available talent, and that there are no slam dunks in this year's draft at QB. While they will use the free agent market to build as well, there are also no "sure cures" among veteran free agent QBs. Bringing in a questionable free agent would create a situation with 3 QBs and three question marks and the team believes that they are better off going another year with Sage and David. The only exception at QB will be if Kevin Kolb slips into round two, taking the junior backup role. For these reasons, and a number of others, David Carr is getting another season. FANS have created this "must do something" scenario at QB for the Texans. But the front office and coaching staff isn't buying it. If you think that they will bow to fan pressure, go study last year's first round draft pick. The team won 4 additional games under Kubiak and Carr last year and they are staying with this combination while they build the team with high probability picks.

t_flare
01-28-2007, 11:47 PM
for the last poster.. as much as I want Carr to stay... its still 50/50 he will be here. If he leaves tho, I can get rid of this poster

http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Houston-Texans--C10088942.jpeg

SamuraiSword
01-29-2007, 12:30 AM
Facts and logic? There is very little of that on these boards. I'm just passing on what I hear. No one wants to believe it now, but as February and March pass without anything happening and we near the draft, the fans will realize that the team is taking a path of building through the draft with the best available talent, and that there are no slam dunks in this year's draft at QB. While they will use the free agent market to build as well, there are also no "sure cures" among veteran free agent QBs. Bringing in a questionable free agent would create a situation with 3 QBs and three question marks and the team believes that they are better off going another year with Sage and David. The only exception at QB will be if Kevin Kolb slips into round two, taking the junior backup role. For these reasons, and a number of others, David Carr is getting another season. FANS have created this "must do something" scenario at QB for the Texans. But the front office and coaching staff isn't buying it. If you think that they will bow to fan pressure, go study last year's first round draft pick. The team won 4 additional games under Kubiak and Carr last year and they are staying with this combination while they build the team with high probability picks.


Yeah but now after Vince got his team to a 9-7 winning season from a 0-5 start. They are going to get a QB that will be a play maker. They know they have to listen this time because of Vince doing so well.

QB75
01-29-2007, 09:49 AM
Yeah but now after Vince got his team to a 9-7 winning season from a 0-5 start. They are going to get a QB that will be a play maker. They know they have to listen this time because of Vince doing so well.

They have to listen to the fans? No, they don't.

Honoring Earl 34
01-29-2007, 09:57 AM
Fans vote with their money . The NFL splits their revenues except for luxury suites I think .... which is to bad because some owners will be cheap.

If a dog bites you once it's the dogs fault , if he bites you again it's yours . Last years draft will be the dog who bit the Texans ...why because there was three really good QB prospects that got away ... why cause if you wanted to coach the Texans you had to endorse Carr .

I do'nt believe Smith or Kubiak will blow their first shot at being a GM and a HC by being bit again ... it's time to move on .

Kaiser Toro
01-29-2007, 10:41 AM
They have to listen to the fans? No, they don't.

Yes they do and are, if you actually were a season ticket holder you would be kept abreast of a changing of the guard that is going on before the vested people's eyes.

You will soon have to go to the NFL forum to discuss the malady that is Carr.

yourfavoritetexan42
01-29-2007, 11:12 AM
Yeah but now after Vince got his team to a 9-7 winning season from a 0-5 start. They are going to get a QB that will be a play maker. They know they have to listen this time because of Vince doing so well.

Vince Young took them to 9-7? Or the Titans went 9-7.

Two of those games Vince turned the bal over 3+ times and won. One of those games their wasn't one offensive score. The two times against us we beat ourselves, and he made one good play so people think he is the next coming of christ. Yes he is a good talent and a play maker...but I don't really think he was the reason the Titans went 9-7.


Until there is a better option out there, we need to keep Carr. Carr is better than Grossman, and they are in the superbowl. I think we will be ok with him, and plus he still has that potential to be great.

Honoring Earl 34
01-29-2007, 11:14 AM
Yes they do and are, if you actually were a season ticket holder you would be kept abreast of a changing of the guard that is going on before the vested people's eyes.

You will soon have to go to the NFL forum to discuss the malady that is Carr.

You will also need a really warm jacket .

ChrisG
01-29-2007, 05:01 PM
I've been pondering this and have come to the conclusion that I myself will give him 1 more year. Honestly, this is his rookie year in the NFL. The previous 4 years the Texans lacked talent and coaching to qualify as an NFL team. More like a CFL team. With that said, I looked at some stats and saw that in Plummers first year with Kubiak the team went 10-6 (he started 11 games). But he also had an O-LINE MUCH better than the Texans have and also had Clinton Portis in the backfield. Carr has shown some glimpses of growth although he has also played some of the worst QB in the league this year. Maybe the system is finally sinking in. Maybe he can be better next year under Kubiak. After all this is the first year he has had ANY coaching. What'cha think? :hides:

then next year will be his rookie year again for some reason (excuse)....he had his rookie year, if he were a stock it would be plumeting

even if he were considered a rookie this year he played horrible...horrible for a HS QB, we need to get past him and move onto someone who can help us win. IDK y everyone is stuck on this guy...I would love to see him do well and be our QB, but sadly that is not the case.

Texas
01-29-2007, 05:10 PM
Answer = No

dbspi
01-29-2007, 05:56 PM
Five Years for Christ sake, how much longer will David Carr be given chances to prove himself. Its time to cut to cut our loses and move on.

TEXANFAN23435
01-29-2007, 11:46 PM
For christ sakes, it'll take as long as it takes for the new coach and GM to unscrew what the last 2 did to this organization. Carr has done what he could. Plummer was destroyed in Arizona much in the same manner as Carr has been here. Difference is, Plummer was rescued and given a chance to play within a great offensive system. Even with that good luck, it still took year to regain his confidence before we all got to see how productive he could be.

Don't anyone in their right mind sit hear and say that what Kubiak gave Carr in year one was the equal to what Plummer got in Denver. Does anyone here really see us fielding an offense next year, in Kubiaks 2nd year that would be equal to what Plummer enjoyed during his 2nd season in Denver???? Worse yet, when Kubiak left last year, Plummer crashed and burned and lost his job. Maybe he could do ok with Kubiak again but with the amount of money we're investing in Carr I'd rather see him turn Carr around. The problem is, I don't see us fixing all the holes next season, hopefully I'm wrong.

For the sake of solidifying the position, bring Plummer (provided the price is right) in and let him compete with Carr and Sage for the starting job. The loser (Plummer or Sage) gets dropped / (Carr) goes on the block and just be happy to get what you can. In the mean time, if Kolb is available in the 4th round or later it would be a good pick. I would not use a 3rd on him. These first 3 picks have to be homeruns along the lines of Ryans.

Just remember, Plummer turned his game around playing with one of the NFL's best offenses. Carr, hasn't had that luxury, yet.

Please_Evolve
01-30-2007, 12:28 AM
All i am going to say is this. Every Sucessful Qb has had:

1. A good coach( i think we are all in agreement that Capers and his entire staff...were NOT good.)

2. A good Oline ( .... i shouldn't even have to say anything on this one)

3. Stability in the scheme(assuming with Capers and co there was one?)


If we had the ability I'd love to place just about every QB you want in the position David has been in the last five years. Think Manning has trouble with the pressure he gets in Indy? whew. Good Luck Brady having time to throw. McNabb at least you can run but for how long? Vick....well you should be playing RB anyway.

For every "excuse" you call out as an excuse. Think about the situations the top league Qbs enjoy for the most part. Those Organizations put their players in a position to win and succeed. This just isn't for Carr it's been this organization under Capers and Casserly. Maybe one day logic and the reality of thing will set in for some of the posters.....i think i have more hope of Carr going to the pro bowl then that happening.

SamuraiSword
01-30-2007, 12:48 AM
All i am going to say is this. Every Sucessful Qb has had:

1. A good coach( i think we are all in agreement that Capers and his entire staff...were NOT good.)

2. A good Oline ( .... i shouldn't even have to say anything on this one)

3. Stability in the scheme(assuming with Capers and co there was one?)


If we had the ability I'd love to place just about every QB you want in the position David has been in the last five years. Think Manning has trouble with the pressure he gets in Indy? whew. Good Luck Brady having time to throw. McNabb at least you can run but for how long? Vick....well you should be playing RB anyway.

For every "excuse" you call out as an excuse. Think about the situations the top league Qbs enjoy for the most part. Those Organizations put their players in a position to win and succeed. This just isn't for Carr it's been this organization under Capers and Casserly. Maybe one day logic and the reality of thing will set in for some of the posters.....i think i have more hope of Carr going to the pro bowl then that happening.

yeah and what is his excuse for not throwing a touchdown pass in 10 games?

hey lets grab every all-star for him to join the Texans! I so wish David would be playing in the probowl in Hawaii. That way we could see how david would do with a probowl offensive line! Then we could see what new excuse you guys would come up with.

TopTexanFan16
01-30-2007, 09:44 AM
yeah and what is his excuse for not throwing a touchdown pass in 10 games?

hey lets grab every all-star for him to join the Texans! I so wish David would be playing in the probowl in Hawaii. That way we could see how david would do with a probowl offensive line! Then we could see what new excuse you guys would come up with.

Haha i can tell you what the excuse would be...." Well its not fair to judge Carr in the probowl game because he didnt have enough time to gel with his teamates and the offensive line" i think im pretty close.

Dime
01-30-2007, 11:51 AM
For christ sakes, it'll take as long as it takes for the new coach and GM to unscrew what the last 2 did to this organization. Carr has done what he could. Plummer was destroyed in Arizona much in the same manner as Carr has been here. Difference is, Plummer was rescued and given a chance to play within a great offensive system. Even with that good luck, it still took year to regain his confidence before we all got to see how productive he could be.

Don't anyone in their right mind sit hear and say that what Kubiak gave Carr in year one was the equal to what Plummer got in Denver. Does anyone here really see us fielding an offense next year, in Kubiaks 2nd year that would be equal to what Plummer enjoyed during his 2nd season in Denver???? Worse yet, when Kubiak left last year, Plummer crashed and burned and lost his job. Maybe he could do ok with Kubiak again but with the amount of money we're investing in Carr I'd rather see him turn Carr around. The problem is, I don't see us fixing all the holes next season, hopefully I'm wrong.

For the sake of solidifying the position, bring Plummer (provided the price is right) in and let him compete with Carr and Sage for the starting job. The loser (Plummer or Sage) gets dropped / (Carr) goes on the block and just be happy to get what you can. In the mean time, if Kolb is available in the 4th round or later it would be a good pick. I would not use a 3rd on him. These first 3 picks have to be homeruns along the lines of Ryans.

Just remember, Plummer turned his game around playing with one of the NFL's best offenses. Carr, hasn't had that luxury, yet.

To begin with,

Carr is going to make a large amount of money this year.. and your wanting him to compete and possibly make that large amount of money from the bench.. Are you insaine?

Carr is worth more today around the league then he has ever been, but he is still playing inconsistant. We have all seen Carr's play. He has improved this year, but this improvement should have been the first year, even second year, not the fifth.

Now, I dont believe it is all Carr's fault (no, we aint bashing others). I think he wasnt held accountable till this year, and he actually has a mentor now. That being said, the entire Texans, from the team, to the fans base have lost alot of confidence in him. If you dont have confidence of your team and fan base, its hard to change that. He would be better suited to another team where he can feed of the renewed confiendence of team and fan base.

Simply put.. it would be good for the Texans and the fan base to move on with someone else. Even though this might be the wrong person to move on to, it is the right time in many peoples eyes.

old football fan
01-30-2007, 12:13 PM
I am not saying we should keep Carr here as our QB if there is someone out there we could get that is better and please I've checked out the stats on all of them and all are pretty close to each other. Anyway I have a quesition for all those who say Carr has bad habits. How long did it take you to break your bad habits. Do any of you smoke? I did for 40 yrs and I quit once a yr till I was told smoke or die. It may yake another year for Carr to break those bad habits he has. Also remember Kubiak said this team needs playmakers, he didn't say this team only needs a playmaker QB. Food for thought which I will be totally ripped for.

NATHANHALE
01-30-2007, 12:35 PM
"Carr is worth more today around the league then he has ever been, but he is still playing inconsistant. We have all seen Carr's play. He has improved this year, but this improvement should have been the first year, even second year, not the fifth."

I'm not saying you're wrong here but please explain how Carr improved this year. Before the end of the season, Kubiak took the passing game out of his hands and Carr had fewer TD's than the year before-- 4 in the last 12 games.

How did Carr improve? Too, what makes you think he's worth more?

Last 5 games of '05 Carr avg 150ypg w/3 tds and 3 ints
Last 5 games of '06 Carr avg 110ypg w/2 tds and 6 ints

JMO, but I would think he'd close out the year better than he started-giving everything new-but he didn't, though the rest of the team did...

...finally, why do so many posters ignore the fact that Carr's sacks went from 68/434yds in '05 down to 41/240 in '06--that's a big improvement that produced no better results in the passing game...

HoustonFrog
01-30-2007, 12:57 PM
"Carr is worth more today around the league then he has ever been, but he is still playing inconsistant. We have all seen Carr's play. He has improved this year, but this improvement should have been the first year, even second year, not the fifth."

I'm not saying you're wrong here but please explain how Carr improved this year. Before the end of the season, Kubiak took the passing game out of his hands and Carr had fewer TD's than the year before-- 4 in the last 12 games.

How did Carr improve? Too, what makes you think he's worth more?

Exactly!Starting with the second Titans game Kubiak started trusting him less and less. He ended up being an overpaid scout teamer who handed the ball off. I still go back to the VY win game and notice how we were down with about half the 4th quarter left on their 30 or something and had 3rd and 8...we ran a draw and took the safe FG. This coming from a losing team. That showed me enough right there. As for others talking about his bad habits. Sorry you don't get 5 years in the NFL to break them. If I was hired in the high 6 figures to take cases and win yet for 5 years I basically had no clue how to file petitions, answer discovery or cross examine then I'd probably have been on the street in less than a year. The guy gets too many excuses.

Dime
01-30-2007, 01:51 PM
"Carr is worth more today around the league then he has ever been, but he is still playing inconsistant. We have all seen Carr's play. He has improved this year, but this improvement should have been the first year, even second year, not the fifth."

I'm not saying you're wrong here but please explain how Carr improved this year. Before the end of the season, Kubiak took the passing game out of his hands and Carr had fewer TD's than the year before-- 4 in the last 12 games.

How did Carr improve? Too, what makes you think he's worth more?

Last 5 games of '05 Carr avg 150ypg w/3 tds and 3 ints
Last 5 games of '06 Carr avg 110ypg w/2 tds and 6 ints

JMO, but I would think he'd close out the year better than he started-giving everything new-but he didn't, though the rest of the team did...

...finally, why do so many posters ignore the fact that Carr's sacks went from 68/434yds in '05 down to 41/240 in '06--that's a big improvement that produced no better results in the passing game...

I would be glad to address your comments to me.

How did he improve?

From prior years, he was better (then he was in the past) with his accuracy of his throws. He had better ball placement for the most part (not saying it was perfect, but better) and he looked more poised in the pocket, then running every other play. Kub made him stay inside more so his O-line knew where he was to try to protect the pocket. I am not saying he was awesome, but from the last 3 years, he was improved.

Why do i think he is worth more?

Even though we see him being poor at several skills, other teams see as Kub did at the beginning of the season, aka Fixable. Some feel with a decent O-line, he might be good. Others look at him as a solid, tough backup to help fill in when things go south for a starter. example Donavan/Garcia. Personally, I think we might even be able to tweak out a low 2nd for him for the right team/price. In addition, his completation rating was tops for a good deal of the year (gives a false sense, i know, but having your name positive on boards of NFL coaches only helps you). He seemed to improve this year, all points to a better year, worthwise.

brewhaus
01-30-2007, 02:04 PM
DC was not mentioned in the reference to "returning veterans" in the letter for season ticket holders renewal this year. I know that doesn't mean anything other than the Texans management realizes he is a sore spot, I guess.

NATHANHALE
01-30-2007, 02:08 PM
"He seemed to improve this year, all points to a better year, worthwise."
__________________


If this is true, why did Kubiak take the ball out of his hands at the end of the year. Too, if he improved, why is Rick Smith so adamant about bringing in competition for the position? Unlike last year, there has been no 'ringing' endorsement of Carr by the FO/Carr's fan base is shrinking/and most media people of note are saying Carr is 'toast.' Dime, I like post of your posts, but I think (and you're not the only one) you're on an 'island' with this one...

Dime
01-30-2007, 02:22 PM
"He seemed to improve this year, all points to a better year, worthwise."
__________________


If this is true, why did Kubiak take the ball out of his hands at the end of the year. Too, if he improved, why is Rick Smith so adamant about bringing in competition for the position? Unlike last year, there has been no 'ringing' endorsement of Carr by the FO/Carr's fan base is shrinking/and most media people of note are saying Carr is 'toast.' Dime, I like post of your posts, but I think (and you're not the only one) you're on an 'island' with this one...

hey.. if they can get a third for Henson. Dont tell me that they cant get a third at least for Carr. Rofl

tsip
01-30-2007, 03:22 PM
hey.. if they can get a third for Henson. Dont tell me that they cant get a third at least for Carr. Rofl

...totally different circumstances for Henson, as he hadn't even played yet...too, he was projected as a first rounder before he signed the baseball contract...if he had Carr's 'play' in the NFL before hand, he wouldn't get a third---wonder what he would get now?

QB75
01-30-2007, 03:36 PM
Yeah but now after Vince got his team to a 9-7 winning season from a 0-5 start. They are going to get a QB that will be a play maker. They know they have to listen this time because of Vince doing so well.

No, they don't. Vince Young's performance has nothing to do with any potential decision on David Carr.

shinerbock_girl
01-30-2007, 03:38 PM
If DC is our QB in 2007 (which my Magic 8 tells me "ask again later"), then I'll cheer him on accordingly. Should we part ways, I'll wish him the best and root for whoever plays QB for the Houston Texans. I have absolutely no choice in the matter, other than to root or not to root (is that the question?).

How's that for giving him another chance? :howdy: deserved criticism & praise is still fair game, tho'

Definately couldn't have said it better myself...I won't turn my back on him if he is still out QB, but i do worry about his confidence right now....Can he overcome that...

NATHANHALE
01-30-2007, 03:40 PM
...totally different circumstances for Henson, as he hadn't even played yet...too, he was projected as a first rounder before he signed the baseball contract...if he had Carr's 'play' in the NFL before hand, he wouldn't get a third---wonder what he would get now?

Also, the Cowboys (who didn't keep Henson long) got Henson for 3rd round money...

QB75
01-30-2007, 05:31 PM
Five Years for Christ sake, how much longer will David Carr be given chances to prove himself. Its time to cut to cut our loses and move on.

Hopefully, the length of his contract.

Dime
01-30-2007, 05:39 PM
Hopefully, the length of his contract.

i wouldnt hold my breath on that.

Beer and Metal
01-30-2007, 06:35 PM
"He seemed to improve this year, all points to a better year, worthwise."
__________________


If this is true, why did Kubiak take the ball out of his hands at the end of the year. Too, if he improved, why is Rick Smith so adamant about bringing in competition for the position? Unlike last year, there has been no 'ringing' endorsement of Carr by the FO/Carr's fan base is shrinking/and most media people of note are saying Carr is 'toast.' Dime, I like post of your posts, but I think (and you're not the only one) you're on an 'island' with this one...


Just a thought, but perhaps Kubiak knew the patchwork O-line was effective at run-blocking, but not with pass protection?

ib4texans
01-30-2007, 06:46 PM
Just a thought, but perhaps Kubiak knew the patchwork O-line was effective at run-blocking, but not with pass protection?


For the most part this could be true except the game against the Jets and Dallas, both under 50 yards rushing.

QB75
01-30-2007, 07:06 PM
"He seemed to improve this year, all points to a better year, worthwise."
__________________


If this is true, why did Kubiak take the ball out of his hands at the end of the year. Too, if he improved, why is Rick Smith so adamant about bringing in competition for the position? Unlike last year, there has been no 'ringing' endorsement of Carr by the FO/Carr's fan base is shrinking/and most media people of note are saying Carr is 'toast.' Dime, I like post of your posts, but I think (and you're not the only one) you're on an 'island' with this one...

Well....maybe the coaching staff thought that a rushing attack would be more effective against the Colts and Browns. Interesting that so-called "fans" turn success in the running game into an indictment against David Carr. Under Carr, despite being in a new system, the Texans won 4 more games in 2006 than 2005. He is likely to be back for another year of his contract.

hollywood_texan
01-30-2007, 07:33 PM
Well....maybe the coaching staff thought that a rushing attack would be more effective against the Colts and Browns. Interesting that so-called "fans" turn success in the running game into an indictment against David Carr. Under Carr, despite being in a new system, the Texans won 4 more games in 2006 than 2005. He is likely to be back for another year of his contract.

I could go through Carr's stats to show you this, but I don't want to bore you with the details. Consistently, Carr is good for about 17 for 24 and 190 yards, and maybe a TD in a game. Look at his stats, game by game, and you will see that he never has really had a huge big number day (a few nice ones though but nothing to take real notice and validate his contract, much less being the #1 pick in the 2002 draft). Further, just by memory, he has never put the team on his back to even sniff out a victory. He will stink up a few games in the season though from time to time, usually later in the season.

Carr's main problem is not his mistakes, but that he doesn't make big plays. Specifically, he has never demonstrated he can throw over the middle past the linebacker in zone coverage. Usually, the linebacker tips the ball for an incompletion. My opinion, he lacks the visual skills and the velocity on his throws to throw over the middle, not to even get into his footwork.

But let's take your logic though that Carr should be around because the Texans won 4 more games from 2005 to 2006. Several questions here on your logic:

1. Does Carr get any blame for the 7 win decrease from 2004 to 2005? Mmm, let me guess, the answer is no because of the coaching issues. If that is the case then maybe Carr isn't that directly responsible for the increase in 4 wins?

2. Is improving from 2 to 6 wins the same as an increase 6 wins to 10? The answer is no. Point is going from 2 to 6 wins is incremental and probably just about several other QBs could have held lead this team to that improvement for a lot less money. This increase of 4 wins really needs to be put in perspective.

It seems evidently clear that Carr is probably coming back, but he really needs to have a break out year in 2007. Whatever he's done up to now is mediocre at best, the arguement is why? Carr supporter say he didn't have coaching and players around him the first 4 years and this is a natural process because of that. The other side believes Carr was more a part of the old problem than being held back and is holding the team back now.

Either way, 2007 will be an interesting year to see if Carr can overcome the adveristy of his first 5 years and prove his value to the Texans organization.

HoustonFrog
01-30-2007, 08:03 PM
.It seems evidently clear that Carr is probably coming back, but he really needs to have a break out year in 2007. Whatever he's done up to now is mediocre at best, the arguement is why? Carr supporter say he didn't have coaching and players around him the first 4 years and this is a natural process because of that. The other side believes Carr was more a part of the old problem than being held back and is holding the team back now.

Either way, 2007 will be an interesting year to see if Carr can overcome the adveristy of his first 5 years and prove his value to the Texans organization.

I don't see this since the guy has been left out of team type functions supporting the team this off season.

QB75
01-30-2007, 08:12 PM
I don't see this since the guy has been left out of team type functions supporting the team this off season.

Such as ..... ?

Mr. White
01-30-2007, 08:16 PM
Well....maybe the coaching staff thought that a rushing attack would be more effective against the Colts and Browns. Interesting that so-called "fans" turn success in the running game into an indictment against David Carr. Under Carr, despite being in a new system, the Texans won 4 more games in 2006 than 2005. He is likely to be back for another year of his contract.

LMAO...the real fans aren't really the ones from Texas anymore since they don't fit the California agenda.

The only "real" fans are the ones from California.

</sarcasm>

QB75
01-30-2007, 08:27 PM
LMAO...the real fans aren't really the ones from Texas anymore since they don't fit the California agenda.

The only "real" fans are the ones from California.

</sarcasm>

The "California Agenda"? "LMAO" indeed.

hollywood_texan
01-30-2007, 08:28 PM
I don't see this since the guy has been left out of team type functions supporting the team this off season.

Undertand your perspective, but I think it is going to take some time before it happens. This is just the beginning of many steps that will have to take place.

I see it more as putting Carr on notice that this isn't his team, not that it every really was...

Such as ..... ?

A letter came with with our season ticket holder invoice, it metions several player names to get excited about next season, Carr's name was not in the letter.

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 08:31 PM
It seems evidently clear that Carr is probably coming back, but he really needs to have a break out year in 2007. Whatever he's done up to now is mediocre at best, the arguement is why? Carr supporter say he didn't have coaching and players around him the first 4 years and this is a natural process because of that. The other side believes Carr was more a part of the old problem than being held back and is holding the team back now.


That last statement......

gets me wondering, what kind of game plan did Capers call with Kerry Collins??

What kind of game did Kubiak call when he was in Denver?? Both pretty similar I would think....... run, run, play action pass..... and when you pass, you go deep.

You'd think Carr & that big arm would be perfect for both coaches....... but you put both of them in Houston, and all of a sudden, they get all Mickey Mouse on us.

Mr. White
01-30-2007, 08:38 PM
The "California Agenda"? "LMAO" indeed.

The California Agenda=people around here from California that try to police the Texans' fans' "negativity." They used to neg rep anyone who said an unkind word about the QB. They would even leave some pretty nasty comments along with the neg rep.

Some of them are actually named Carr, but I'm sure you already knew that .

NATHANHALE
01-30-2007, 08:53 PM
Well....maybe the coaching staff thought that a rushing attack would be more effective against the Colts and Browns. Interesting that so-called "fans" turn success in the running game into an indictment against David Carr. Under Carr, despite being in a new system, the Texans won 4 more games in 2006 than 2005. He is likely to be back for another year of his contract.

I love these 'flavor of the day' post! On some days, Carr couldn't throw because he had no running attack--on other days, he didn't throw because the running attack was so good. Dang, it's going to be boring and lonely around here when Carr is gone...no more Carr 'excuse' post...

QB75
01-30-2007, 10:32 PM
I love these 'flavor of the day' post! On some days, Carr couldn't throw because he had no running attack--on other days, he didn't throw because the running attack was so good. Dang, it's going to be boring and lonely around here when Carr is gone...no more Carr 'excuse' post...

It's actually the Carr haters who lack the consistency. The running game works like a charm in last two games so they point to Carr's lack of passing yards.

QB75
01-30-2007, 10:36 PM
Undertand your perspective, but I think it is going to take some time before it happens. This is just the beginning of many steps that will have to take place.

I see it more as putting Carr on notice that this isn't his team, not that it every really was...



A letter came with with our season ticket holder invoice, it metions several player names to get excited about next season, Carr's name was not in the letter.

Oh, a letter. Well that seems like a pretty critical "team function". I didn't think there was anything.

Honoring Earl 34
01-30-2007, 10:42 PM
The letter did not mention David Carr ... why you ask because they're trying to get people to renew .

So at this point I think the Carr's like Texas cause they sure don't seem like they want to leave .

QB75
01-30-2007, 11:00 PM
The letter did not mention David Carr ... why you ask because they're trying to get people to renew .

So at this point I think the Carr's like Texas cause they sure don't seem like they want to leave .

Finally! Someone who gets it.

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 11:14 PM
Finally! Someone who gets it.

I believe QB75, David is going nowhere.

to add insult to injury, the QB position will be open in preseason, & David Carr is going to win........ you could bring in TomBrady in the off season, and David Carr will win the freak'n competition.


I just hope he gets most of the snaps in the preseason, because he sure as heck needs the practice. Forget this crap about starters only playing one series, or one Qtr...... get that guy as many snaps as possible, and work out those kinks before the season starts.

QB75
01-30-2007, 11:19 PM
I believe QB75, David is going nowhere.

to add insult to injury, the QB position will be open in preseason, & David Carr is going to win........ you could bring in TomBrady in the off season, and David Carr will win the freak'n competition.


I just hope he gets most of the snaps in the preseason, because he sure as heck needs the practice. Forget this crap about starters only playing one series, or one Qtr...... get that guy as many snaps as possible, and work out those kinks before the season starts.

That's all I'm saying. Kubiak took the job and excercised Carr's option. He's NOT going to be traded. He's going to camp. They are going to spend money elsewhere besides QB.

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 11:54 PM
That's all I'm saying. Kubiak took the job and excercised Carr's option. He's NOT going to be traded. He's going to camp. They are going to spend money elsewhere besides QB.

Is this Rick Smith.........hey R. Smith, thanks for the update.

Dime
01-31-2007, 02:57 AM
It's actually the Carr haters who lack the consistency. The running game works like a charm in last two games so they point to Carr's lack of passing yards.


Man.. I hope your family to Carr or a stalker. This much man-love for a person is amazing.

My dad told me along time ago something that I guess you were not told. He quoted ' If one person tells you that you have a tail, might just ignore him. He is probably being silly. If two people tell you have a tail, however, you might want to check, cause there is a good chance something is back there.'

Soooo.. from the Houston Texans majority of fan, as you describe as the 'Carr Haters', which is incorrect. It should be the "Want Carr to move on'ers". From me to you, Carr wont be here as long as you think. Or hope. or dream. Sad thing is, I think Carr will be hurt even more if he somehow makes it on this team this year. Riding the bench when you were a former starter is tough, and it really going to be tough on him. In addition, it would be horrible for his career to be a sitting a season.

Let me outline how bad this will get.

(NOTICE: I DO NOT suggest or recommend this action, this is just what I forsee)

If Carr start's somehow for the Texans, the boo birds will start in the first game. Pray to who ever you pray to that he/the texans wins a few starting out. If not... it will get worse until he is replaced. Most people except a very few have lost faith and confidence in Carr. And I have no idea if he can restore confidence in one year now. i dont see it, most dont see it.

I wish Carr good luck. but I am pretty sure he will need more luck then all the 'Lucky Charm' cereal boxes he could buy with the 6 million he was paid last year. We might need to send him in some of the boxes to help.

Carr Bombed
01-31-2007, 03:03 AM
We might need to send him in some of the boxes to help.

That won't help, those proof of purchases never return anything worth value, but hey what do we know, we're just fairwheather fans, right.

gsus8091
01-31-2007, 06:13 AM
I agree 100%. The 2007 season should be his best. He had a terrific completion %, a great QB rating, and he was reading defenses and going through his progressions very well. The Giants game says it about David. In that game he was a warrior. And that was during the time people in Houston were just killing him in the media, and when he jumped past goal line sacrificing his body and health for a TD just to score and get his team fired up. Thats a perfect example of this guy giving his all for Houston. If the front office and the coaching staff does the samething as last year in terms of drafting really well and signing some key free agents I believe Carr will succeed. The Texans HAVE TO sign guards Eric Steinbach or Kris Dielman. Those guys would be huge for the o-line. And if you remember David Carr last year, he played awesome in the first few games when his line was fully healthy. He also needs a defense to keep him in games, so Asante Samuel, Cato June, Michael Lewis, and or Nate Clements would all be huge upgrades. I also think that if the Texans sign another solid WR like Kevin Curtis or Drew Bennett that help Carr and give him someone else to throw to other than Johnson. Also in the draft picking Adrian Peterson with the #1 overall pick is an absolute must, and it would give Carr another legit weapon and a sincere running threat. Look people, there is nobody out there better than him. Don't seriously sit there and say Jake Plummer, Jeff Garcia, Byron Leftwich, Kurt Warner, Matt Shaub, Joey Harrington, Troy Smith, Kevin Kolb, or Drew Stanton are better. That is just nonsense. None of those guys are better than David Carr. They're just not. And one thing Carr has that most of the beformentioned QB's don't have, is potential. Carr still has some untapped potential. And with the way he grew and PROgressed last year he is only going to get better. So just one more year, thats all, one more chance. And if he totally stinks it up and doesn't progress any further and is the sole reason they lose and don't score then we can draft Brian Brohm with our #1 pick and then dump him.

HoustonFrog
01-31-2007, 09:48 AM
It's actually the Carr haters who lack the consistency. The running game works like a charm in last two games so they point to Carr's lack of passing yards.

No, I've been consitent for a year and a half now. I wouldn't really call myself a "Carr hater" either, just a football realist who realizes that no other team or city has cut a guy more slack for doing nothing. What isn't consistent is what offensive person Carr lovers will blame for him not knowing how to function as a real NFL QB. If I were the line I'd be getting peeved by now. When one Carr supporter can answer these football related questions accurately and without sounding like a homer, I'll listen.

1) After 5 years why hasn't Carr learned a) how to throw the ball away once outside the pocket and b) how to not make eye love to a receiver before throwing it to him?

2) How, in any way, shape or form, is competition with Carr this year going to do anything productive for the team, its fans and the city?Before answering think about if Carr barely wins out...the boos, the calls for the back-up, the dissension..if he barely loses out..the homers saying he was good afterall, etc. In my book it is a no win situation and will put us here again next year.

3) Why have other teams been so aggressive regarding their high draft picks with QBs and QBs in general while we sit and wonder if Carr can do it another year?

Sorry, in my book, it would do everyone involved alot of good if we all parted ways and wished for the best.

Dime
01-31-2007, 09:58 AM
That won't help, those proof of purchases never return anything worth value, but hey what do we know, we're just fairwheather fans, right.


uhhh... me'uh dont know.. What colors are we suppose to be rootin for again.. (dont forget, he thinks we stupid too, rofl)

HOU-TEX
01-31-2007, 10:33 AM
I believe QB75, David is going nowhere.

to add insult to injury, the QB position will be open in preseason, & David Carr is going to win........ you could bring in TomBrady in the off season, and David Carr will win the freak'n competition.


I just hope he gets most of the snaps in the preseason, because he sure as heck needs the practice. Forget this crap about starters only playing one series, or one Qtr...... get that guy as many snaps as possible, and work out those kinks before the season starts.

TK, I know you're anti-Carr, but this statement kinda caught me offguard. If the "kinks" haven't been worked out in over five years, what would make one think they'd get worked out in a single pre-season?:winky:

hollywood_texan
01-31-2007, 12:25 PM
Kubiak took the job and excercised Carr's option.

We do not know as fact that Kubiak exercised the option. Carr's exercised option could have easily been a condition of employment to Kubiak during the interview process. We just don't know.

If Kubiak is so rock solid on Carr, why doesn't he say it and the team use Carr aggressively in marketing material?

Read the tea leaves man...

It's going to be a long a process on the Carr situation (I think we are in an agreement there), but the big ball is starting to roll and Carr is running out of chances. I suspect things could change real quickly mid-way through next season if Carr doesn't show marked improvement.

Is QB75 also Hulk75?

thunderkyss
01-31-2007, 12:54 PM
TK, I know you're anti-Carr, but this statement kinda caught me offguard. If the "kinks" haven't been worked out in over five years, what would make one think they'd get worked out in a single pre-season?:winky:

I'm not anti-Carr...... I'm anti- not starting the best QB on the team.......

& you're right, I don't think one preseason of snaps is going to fix anything, but I'd rather we start working on it in the preseason instead of week 1.

QB75
01-31-2007, 12:55 PM
We do not know as fact that Kubiak exercised the option. Carr's exercised option could have easily been a condition of employment to Kubiak during the interview process. We just don't know.

If Kubiak is so rock solid on Carr, why doesn't he say it and the team use Carr aggressively in marketing material?
Read the tea leaves man...

It's going to be a long a process on the Carr situation (I think we are in an agreement there), but the big ball is starting to roll and Carr is running out of chances. I suspect things could change real quickly mid-way through next season if Carr doesn't show marked improvement.

Is QB75 also Hulk75?

A lot of fans don't like Carr. That's why they aren't mentioning his name in marketing material.

QB75
01-31-2007, 01:07 PM
Man.. I hope your family to Carr or a stalker. This much man-love for a person is amazing.

My dad told me along time ago something that I guess you were not told. He quoted ' If one person tells you that you have a tail, might just ignore him. He is probably being silly. If two people tell you have a tail, however, you might want to check, cause there is a good chance something is back there.'

Soooo.. from the Houston Texans majority of fan, as you describe as the 'Carr Haters', which is incorrect. It should be the "Want Carr to move on'ers". From me to you, Carr wont be here as long as you think. Or hope. or dream. Sad thing is, I think Carr will be hurt even more if he somehow makes it on this team this year. Riding the bench when you were a former starter is tough, and it really going to be tough on him. In addition, it would be horrible for his career to be a sitting a season.

Let me outline how bad this will get.

(NOTICE: I DO NOT suggest or recommend this action, this is just what I forsee)

If Carr start's somehow for the Texans, the boo birds will start in the first game. Pray to who ever you pray to that he/the texans wins a few starting out. If not... it will get worse until he is replaced. Most people except a very few have lost faith and confidence in Carr. And I have no idea if he can restore confidence in one year now. i dont see it, most dont see it.

I wish Carr good luck. but I am pretty sure he will need more luck then all the 'Lucky Charm' cereal boxes he could buy with the 6 million he was paid last year. We might need to send him in some of the boxes to help.

My statements have only been to support the case that I believe that Carr is staying in 2007. Not that he should, nor that he shouldn't. Just that he is. So many people on this board are wrapped up in emotion. I'm just looking at it as a business. 1) They are still selling out and raising prices. Win or lose, and whether people attend or not, actual demand for tickets is solid because people think things are moving in the right direction. 2) QBs are expensive, and unless there is a slam dunk out there to replace Carr for the next 5 years, they aren't going to gamble on one now. They already have an unknown in Carr. 3) There are a lot of other needs on the team where there will be strong candidates in the draft or free agency. Therefore, 4) they will keep Carr and spend money where they believe it will pay off.

I don't think that fan sentiment has anything to do with the decision. I think that he and Sage will compete for the job and that Carr will start. I may be wrong, but we will all know by April or May.

Mr teX
01-31-2007, 01:24 PM
I think he just needs to move on for his sake & the sanity of fans here in houston b/c he's worn out his welcome. If he's here in a starter's role next year, i'm not going to pull all my hair out strand by strand, but i will be on my final leg as far as any kind of support for him to succeed goes. In many respects, i understand the "Carr Haters" or whatever you guys want to be called these days, but i also understand the other side as well, b/c above all else i want to win & i don't care who's under center.

Mr. White
01-31-2007, 01:39 PM
In many respects, i understand the "Carr Haters" or whatever you guys want to be called these days,

I think there are probably only a half dozen actual "Carr haters" on this board.

but i also understand the other side as well, b/c above all else i want to win & i don't care who's under center.

The rest are people that think this way. Most of us are Texans fans that just think it's time for a change. Most of us around here think the same way that you do.

There are others who have an agenda only for a certain player to do well. They'll throw any other player under the bus to make their guy look better.

We just want wins.

grinch1134
01-31-2007, 01:50 PM
First off, I could care less who the quarterback is next year, I'm ready for wins. If that means Carr or Mickey Mouse I'm ready for wins.

Second, anyone willing to get rid of Carr please realize that you haven't let your animosity be heard enough for it to matter to anyone but you and maybe your close friends that you have complained to. The boos at Reliant that you participate in are nothing close to boos from other fans for players they dislike. Case in point at the Cowgirls/Texans game this past year the entire staduim rung in with Romo chants to get Bledsoe off the field. So it makes your little boos after a bad series not look like much. Everyone has threatened mass walk outs of the stadium or other group displays, but they haven't happened. Instead tickets are sold, whether people go to the games or not.

None of ya'll have better solutions that ya'll can carry out. If ya'll do, please quit your day job and camp outside the Texans front office and beg for a job (a la Pursuit of Happyness) so you can make changes. Otherwise be a better banker, lawyer, accountant, teacher and leave the BUSINESS of football to someone else.

A QB will be playing next season and I will be there to see that QB win.

HOU-TEX
01-31-2007, 02:52 PM
I'm not anti-Carr...... I'm anti- not starting the best QB on the team.......

& you're right, I don't think one preseason of snaps is going to fix anything, but I'd rather we start working on it in the preseason instead of week 1.

Which is basically anti-Carr, IMO. I'm with you on the idea of the best QB starting. If there isn't any true competition brought in this offseason, Carr will once again be under center. I believe Carr has been a "workout warrior". He has out performed our other QBs(backups) in practice in the past, but come game time he's like a fish out of water. Having said this, I'm pro-Plummer for a year or two. At least he'll keep us on the edge of our seats rather than the same ho-humm we've endured the past couple years.:twocents:

Honoring Earl 34
01-31-2007, 03:01 PM
A QB's number one job is to give everyone involved ( fans , players , coaches , etc .) hope .

When the games on the line how do you feel now ?

When we're losing is there hope we can catch up ?

TwinSisters
01-31-2007, 10:51 PM
We do not know as fact that Kubiak exercised the option. Carr's exercised option could have easily been a condition of employment to Kubiak during the interview process. We just don't know.

If Kubiak is so rock solid on Carr, why doesn't he say it and the team use Carr aggressively in marketing material?

Read the tea leaves man...

I think Casserly used the pen to sign, but we can pretty much say Kubiak was in agreement to exercise the option on Carr's contract.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/9222864

plus there was a 610 interview with McNair floating around where he specifically said that he was going to hire a coach that will work with Carr because he talked to a lot of folks around the league and they reassured him that Carr could go all the way.

The decision to keep Carr didn't seem like a tough one. After all the evaluating, McNair said the conclusion was: "David Carr is the person who can take us to the Super Bowl. He has the ability to do it."

New coach Gary Kubiak, meanwhile, raved about Carr again, saying his skills are ideal for the system he ran as the offensive coordinator in Denver the past 11 seasons. The Broncos ranked fifth in total offense in 2005.

"I look at what we do and what we teach and see him fitting into that very quickly," Kubiak said. "He can make plays off schedule and in this league, as a coach, you're not calling the perfect play all the time. When you don't, you want a kid who can go out there and keep you on the field and make things happen. That's something he possesses."

SamuraiSword
01-31-2007, 11:11 PM
I just have too say in my time watching the NFL, I have never seen a QB get so much leeway its just not funny. I also wonder why he doesn't do HEB commercials anymore? I wonder if clemens got tired of him. :stirpot:

hollywood_texan
02-01-2007, 02:51 PM
A lot of fans don't like Carr. That's why they aren't mentioning his name in marketing material.

What you are saying is that they made this decision to placate the fans and for that reason only.

I think the decision was a little more involved than just pleasing a part of the fan base that do not believe Carr can deliver the goods. The same fan base you are referring to, has been saying the same for several years and now they just want to please that part of the base?

See my point? It is a little more invovled than your simple explanation.

This is the beginning of the end for Carr as a Texan if his play does not improve. Albeit, it will take some time, but the wheel is in motion.

hollywood_texan
02-01-2007, 03:03 PM
I think Casserly used the pen to sign, but we can pretty much say Kubiak was in agreement to exercise the option on Carr's contract.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/9222864

plus there was a 610 interview with McNair floating around where he specifically said that he was going to hire a coach that will work with Carr because he talked to a lot of folks around the league and they reassured him that Carr could go all the way.

I suspect what Kubiak says publicly and privately about Carr are totally two different things.

You can pull all the Kubiak quotes you want, but it seems evidently clear to me that Kubiak is very careful with his words, particularly about Carr.

Further, take into consideration Bob McNair's open opinion about David Carr, it is reasonable to think that maybe Kubiak is sticking with Carr because that is what he is required to do to be the coach.

Everyone takes a job and does things they don't like but continue on with a smile on their face and don't complain about it or even make rosey statements. You want a job or keep your job, you have to do things you don't agree with, like, or whatever...

As I said earlier, we really don't know what Kubiak thinks about Carr. There is enough data out there to put a theory together that Kubiak is not sold on Carr.

Mr. White
02-01-2007, 03:42 PM
plus there was a 610 interview with McNair floating around where he specifically said that he was going to hire a coach that will work with Carr because he talked to a lot of folks around the league and they reassured him that Carr could go all the way.

Turns out that the folks around the league were just guys that were interviewed for the head coach gig.

The interview question was "do you think that David Carr can win a Super Bowl?" Since they wanted the job, they all said yes.

Then it got twisted and these interviewees were "great NFL minds that all agreed that Carr was the next coming of Troy Aikman."

Second Honeymoon
02-01-2007, 03:47 PM
Carr sucks and always has sucked. Get over it losers.....your golden boy sucks.

QB75
02-01-2007, 04:05 PM
What you are saying is that they made this decision to placate the fans and for that reason only.

I think the decision was a little more involved than just pleasing a part of the fan base that do not believe Carr can deliver the goods. The same fan base you are referring to, has been saying the same for several years and now they just want to please that part of the base?

See my point? It is a little more invovled than your simple explanation.

This is the beginning of the end for Carr as a Texan if his play does not improve. Albeit, it will take some time, but the wheel is in motion.

If they are keeping Carr in 2007, and they know many of the fans don't want to, then WHY would they highlight him in marketing? It would just fan the flames.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2007, 04:21 PM
Is'nt that like saying Ford knows people don't like Pintos ... so they don't advertise them and sell them anyway .

You reep what you sow .

tsip
02-01-2007, 04:32 PM
My statements have only been to support the case that I believe that Carr is staying in 2007. Not that he should, nor that he shouldn't. Just that he is. So many people on this board are wrapped up in emotion. I'm just looking at it as a business. 1) They are still selling out and raising prices. Win or lose, and whether people attend or not, actual demand for tickets is solid because people think things are moving in the right direction. 2) QBs are expensive, and unless there is a slam dunk out there to replace Carr for the next 5 years, they aren't going to gamble on one now. They already have an unknown in Carr. 3) There are a lot of other needs on the team where there will be strong candidates in the draft or free agency. Therefore, 4) they will keep Carr and spend money where they believe it will pay off.

I don't think that fan sentiment has anything to do with the decision. I think that he and Sage will compete for the job and that Carr will start. I may be wrong, but we will all know by April or May.

...just a few things. As you stated earlier, Carr's name is not being mentioned, meaning his marketability is about 'zero.' Second, Carr is a 'known.'...and to most fans that is not good. Selling out the stadium is the least 'profitable' piece of the marketing puzzle as it probably goes 100% to pay bills and still does not pay all the bills.

Empty sold seats are the 'biggest' negative the team can have, as empty seats means fan dissatisfaction which means 1) loss sales from concessions, 2) loss sales from souvenirs 3) smaller TV audience which means a lot less ad money. Posters all over the state talk about how they can watch the Cowboys in their city but not the Texans anymore.

When 'new,' the team was in a 'comfort zone' that put them at or near the top of the 'marketability world,' but that perk is gone. McNair is not going to be too happy when the P/L statement comes out and sees 'various' incomes shrinking like a 'leaking' boat. His partners-who are not in Bob's income class-are going to be even less happy.

Bottom line? This team is going to have to make some tough decisions. It has to get the fans back in their seats. It has to generate fan interest in-not just the city-but the surrounding areas/the state/the country-to get a bigger piece of the advertising money.

JMO, the 'status quo' has changed--what was OK and accepted the first 5 yrs, is now 'toast.' Carr is a 'big' part of the equation. If he is still our starting QB in '07, it will not be a 'pretty' picture.' JMO, the team needs to start anew without him...

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 04:38 PM
If they are keeping Carr in 2007, and they know many of the fans don't want to, then WHY would they highlight him in marketing? It would just fan the flames.

Hey QB75...... in your opinion, should David have felt this was a do or die year for him?? From what you saw of him on TV..... do you think he played like it was do or die?? And lastly, do you think he did enough to keep the starting job.... or do you think it will be handed to him out of "good faith" in his ability to lead this team??

If you feel he earned the position, what do you think was his defining moment in '07??

hollywood_texan
02-01-2007, 05:29 PM
If they are keeping Carr in 2007, and they know many of the fans don't want to, then WHY would they highlight him in marketing? It would just fan the flames.

I think the factor you are referring to is really just a byproduct to their decision.

You are basically saying that they left Carr's name off that letter simply because they didn't want to upset a portion of their fan base, which in turn leads to more speculation about Carr and his future with the Texans. Why would they want to do that if they wanted to keep Carr for many years to come? They are just fueling the fire!

The Texans organization has made it very clear that they don't care what the fans think, they will listen to what the fans have to say, but they are going to do whatever they want, regardless of what any part of the fan base wants.

Point to me one example, besides the roof policy, that the Texans organization has cratered to a portion of the fan base. Point is, they haven't.

Maybe they did leave Carr's name off for the reason you state, but it seems unlikely considering the track record of this organization and just in general how stuff like this plays out.

I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying I have evidence to support my theory, where you just have your statement, and that's it.

But then again, I have heard some stupid things about the marketing department for the Texans, for example, they don't care about Austin, San Antonio, or any other part of Texas in promoting the team. So, it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if you were right.

SESupergenius
02-01-2007, 07:15 PM
1) After 5 years why hasn't Carr learned a) how to throw the ball away once outside the pocket and b) how to not make eye love to a receiver before throwing it to him?a) Example that Carr has learned this is week 10 against the Jags. He did not try to force passes into coverage and showed a willingness to throw the ball away (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/players/CarrDa00-1.php) rather than take a sack.

b) I looked at the closeup shots of most QB's in the playoffs, they eyeball the main WR more than you think. You don't just glance at your main WR then look over at another then look at your check down and then back to your main WR. It just doesn't happen. A QB will 'stare' down a receiver to see if he gets seperation and let the play develop a bit.

2) How, in any way, shape or form, is competition with Carr this year going to do anything productive for the team, its fans and the city? It will give the team even more confidence in our QB position to get the job done. If we have a QB that can counted on just as much as the starter (see Philly with Garcia & McNabb, Montana & Young, Simms & Hostetler, etc...) then we are all the better with good depth. If one goes down then the backup can be reasonably counted on to succeed.

Add to that that the stigma of "he's never had competition" will be gone and fans can stop reaching for straws.

3) Why have other teams been so aggressive regarding their high draft picks with QBs and QBs in general while we sit and wonder if Carr can do it another year? Because this team has never had one position that has been the same since its inception. We've tweaked every aspect of our organization to find the right mix. We've tweaked the defense a lot and we are still at the bottom of the league in defense. What did all that tweaking prove? There were some that begged for the 4-3 instead of the 3-4 and guess what, no big change. Our offense has had an offensive line shuffle for 5 straight years. There is no "QB" factor in that. We've never been in the upper echelon in the league in the running game.
But to answer your question, we havn't been so aggressive because we are still a team in its infancy that needs to mature, not overpay its Free Agents, bring in talent to a set system. Carr wasn't going to light it up his first year in the WCO, although he did underachieve a bit by most peoples standards, he still deserves a cohesive offensive unit where the coaches are all on the same page, a consistant line, a wide reciever corps that can make plays and a consistant running. We've never had any of those and until we address those areas, the QB position is going to be stagnant...no matter who is there.



Did I win?

QB75
02-01-2007, 07:47 PM
Hey QB75...... in your opinion, should David have felt this was a do or die year for him?? From what you saw of him on TV..... do you think he played like it was do or die?? And lastly, do you think he did enough to keep the starting job.... or do you think it will be handed to him out of "good faith" in his ability to lead this team??

If you feel he earned the position, what do you think was his defining moment in '07??

I guess you mean his defining moment in '06. I don't know that there was one moment. It was at least as much the things he didn't seem to be able to do yet as much as things he did wrong. It wasn't a great year. Nevertheless, I believe that he is going to be the starter for one more year.

I didn't say he earned it. I didn't say he deserved it. I just said that I think the dynamics are falling into place that are going to get him another year. You have to admit, if the front office has decided to keep him one more year, it certainly would not be to their benefit to announce it publicly right now.

I strongly believe that they are going to sign some free agents, do their best in the draft and create some excitement around that without either signing another QB or trading David. Then, a few weeks after that, they are going to go to camp.

Ole Miss Texan
02-01-2007, 08:11 PM
The texans aren't there to cater to the fans. They are there to win games.

The only way to get more tv coverage, national attention, and more money though advertising is by winning. McNair knows this, he's a smart business man...selling seats is a small part of the picture.

No we havn't been winning very many games, but the current staff is doing all they can with what they have. Proof from last draft is that they aren't going to necessarily take the most popular pick. they are going to do WHATEVER they can to make this team a contender.

When we start winning more games and taking the AFC south and going to the playoffs....is when we will finally start getting the respect we all want. Thats when the national media will pay us attention and when the owner will really make his money.

What would make you more money....reggie bush jerseys and maybe an extra game televised per season. or winning the super bowl and consistently being in the playoffs.

I vote the 2nd of the two. Now there isn't a guarantee with picking mario that we're going to do that by any means...but that's who they thought would give us the best chance of building this team to get to that point and that's fine by me.

hollywood_texan
02-01-2007, 08:13 PM
You have to admit, if the front office has decided to keep him one more year, it certainly would not be to their benefit to announce it publicly right now.


I don't see that it really matters if they announced it... People would be more in shock if they ditched Carr than said they were keeping him.

If they are so concerned about openly endorsing Carr, how were they so head strong and able to go against the grain and not draft Reggie Bush or Vince Young a year earlier. This Carr situation is small potatoes compared to this Carr marketing issue.

I don't think they really care about public opinion so much. It just shows David Carr is becoming less relevant to this team, which means the first half of 2007 will be critical for Carr if he is to remain a Texan.

TwinSisters
02-01-2007, 08:43 PM
Turns out that the folks around the league were just guys that were interviewed for the head coach gig.

The interview question was "do you think that David Carr can win a Super Bowl?" Since they wanted the job, they all said yes.

Then it got twisted and these interviewees were "great NFL minds that all agreed that Carr was the next coming of Troy Aikman."

No, that's not totally true. McNair went out and started talking to folks after Palmer was fired ( McNair says this ). From that period to the end of the season he picked up Reeves to evaluate "players only" ( so McNair said anyway ).

THEN came the interview process that was most likely a farce in some ways, but honest in others.

Example: Kubiak.

Kubiak had to have known that he was due a head coach offer prior to the Texans firing Capers. I know football guys talked about it. Them wanting Kubiak to coach their teams ( Lions' fans, Packers, Vikings, etc to name a few )

So I think Kubiak had to have had the idea that he was going to get his shot.

Kubiak could have waited and if he actually thought Carr was going to torpedo his Head Coaching career, I don't think he would have said the things he said and took the job.

TwinSisters
02-01-2007, 08:45 PM
... shows David Carr is becoming less relevant to this team, which means the first half of 2007 will be critical for Carr if he is to remain a Texan.

man, we said that last season... and the season before that.

tsip
02-01-2007, 09:02 PM
The texans aren't there to cater to the fans. They are there to win games.

The only way to get more tv coverage, national attention, and more money though advertising is by winning. McNair knows this, he's a smart business man...selling seats is a small part of the picture.

No we havn't been winning very many games, but the current staff is doing all they can with what they have. Proof from last draft is that they aren't going to necessarily take the most popular pick. they are going to do WHATEVER they can to make this team a contender.

When we start winning more games and taking the AFC south and going to the playoffs....is when we will finally start getting the respect we all want. Thats when the national media will pay us attention and when the owner will really make his money.

What would make you more money....reggie bush jerseys and maybe an extra game televised per season. or winning the super bowl and consistently being in the playoffs.

I vote the 2nd of the two. Now there isn't a guarantee with picking mario that we're going to do that by any means...but that's who they thought would give us the best chance of building this team to get to that point and that's fine by me.

What if it takes years and years to make this team a success? McNair is smart. There is no way he's going to keep pumping money into this team and not expect some return on his investment. No company in the world operates on the premise that we've got to have 'absolute' success before we can make money--that's absurd.

Too, the Texans are a 'retail' product/company/organization. This means their entire existence depends on someone buying their product. Go ahead, take away the fans--if you think this team or any other team would survive, you're crazy.

Mark my word-this offseason, more than any other, the Texans are going to make an effort to get the fans back into the seats and re-generate excitement about the team.

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 09:09 PM
a) Example that Carr has learned this is week 10 against the Jags.

R you saying it took David ten weeks to learn to throw the ball away?? because he ended the last game of the year staring AJ down.....

b) I looked at the closeup shots of most QB's in the playoffs, they eyeball the main WR more than you think.


Not really. Peyton stares in the direction of his reciever a lot, but he's looking at the defense. Usually their routes are designed to make the safety, or the LB choose the deep route, or the under. Which ever he chooses, Peyton goes the other way.

Rex stares his recievers down, but that's not a good example.

You don't just glance at your main WR then look over at another then look at your check down and then back to your main WR.

Yes you do.

It just doesn't happen.


Yes it does

A QB will 'stare' down a receiver to see if he gets seperation and let the play develop a bit.


bull.........

It will give the team even more confidence in our QB position to get the job done.


No it won't.

If we have a QB that can counted on just as much as the starter (see Philly with Garcia & McNabb,


Garcia was never in competition with McNabb

Montana & Young,


Montana got ousted because of Young

Simms & Hostetler, etc...) then we are all the better with good depth. If one goes down then the backup can be reasonably counted on to succeed.

Add to that that the stigma of "he's never had competition" will be gone and fans can stop reaching for straws.


Straws??

Because this team has never had one position that has been the same since its inception. We've tweaked every aspect of our organization to find the right mix. We've tweaked the defense a lot and we are still at the bottom of the league in defense. What did all that tweaking prove? There were some that begged for the 4-3 instead of the 3-4 and guess what, no big change. Our offense has had an offensive line shuffle for 5 straight years. There is no "QB" factor in that.


& now it's time to tweak the QB position

We've never been in the upper echelon in the league in the running game.


okay


But to answer your question, we havn't been so aggressive because we are still a team in its infancy that needs to mature, not overpay its Free Agents, bring in talent to a set system. Carr wasn't going to light it up his first year in the WCO, although he did underachieve a bit by most peoples standards, he still deserves a cohesive offensive unit where the coaches are all on the same page, a consistant line, a wide reciever corps that can make plays and a consistant running. We've never had any of those and until we address those areas, the QB position is going to be stagnant...no matter who is there.



Did I win?

We are only in our infancy at the QB position.. the rest of the team is at the collegiate level.

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 09:13 PM
man, we said that last season... and the season before that.

tell me about it.

Ole Miss Texan
02-01-2007, 09:18 PM
What if it takes years and years to make this team a success? McNair is smart. There is no way he's going to keep pumping money into this team and not expect some return on his investment. No company in the world operates on the premise that we've got to have 'absolute' success before we can make money--that's absurd.

Too, the Texans are a 'retail' product/company/organization. This means their entire existence depends on someone buying their product. Go ahead, take away the fans--if you think this team or any other team would survive, you're crazy.

Mark my word-this offseason, more than any other, the Texans are going to make an effort to get the fans back into the seats and re-generate excitement about the team.

I never said he didn't care about the fans and doesn't want anyone there...don't take it to that extreme.

All i mean is the best way to have fans in the stands is to have a winning team. Just think if the texans are playoff contenders every year and it comes down to the last 1 or 2 games each season to see who wins our division...seeing us advance in the playoffs. They are doing whatever they think will give us the best chance to do that.

Ideally you want instant success...but not at the expense of long term planning...that's when companies go bankrupt. As well if all you do is plan long term and don't look at the near future you may not even get to that point.

Look at our improvement just over this past season. Next year and the year after if we're pushing 8-8..then a winning season...10 win season..do you not think fans will want to go to the games? For me to say Vince or reggie couldn't get us to that point would be absurd and that's not what i want to come out saying.

We are only like 4 pieces away from having a top 3 defense in this league. If we go heavy on D this offseason/ draft we will easily be a top 10. imo...unless our offense takes that away from them.

We are going to have a dominant D in 2 years....its hard to completely rebuild your team when you only have 1 player on each side of the line that would be a true starter for any team in the league...see AJ and Dunta.

Ryan
02-01-2007, 11:05 PM
It would be best for the Texans and Carr to go their separate ways...they are not married to each other.

Ole Miss Texan
02-01-2007, 11:07 PM
It would be best for the Texans and Carr to go their separate ways...they are not married to each other.

Agreed by most all. the arguement just comes in when. 2 years? 1 year? this season?.....or last season.

tsip
02-02-2007, 01:46 AM
Agreed by most all. the arguement just comes in when. 2 years? 1 year? this season?.....or last season.

Carr should be gone. First, he is-for whatever reasons-not starter material. Second, he would not be any better as a back-up. Third, he is not qualified to train or develope a newbie.

It hasn't been talked about much on the board-though a couple players have hinted about it-but there has to be at least a 'little' resentment among his team mates the way Carr 'walks' a different line than they do...

SamuraiSword
02-02-2007, 01:53 AM
R you saying it took David ten weeks to learn to throw the ball away?? because he ended the last game of the year staring AJ down.....

Not really. Peyton stares in the direction of his reciever a lot, but he's looking at the defense. Usually their routes are designed to make the safety, or the LB choose the deep route, or the under. Which ever he chooses, Peyton goes the other way.

Rex stares his recievers down, but that's not a good example.

Yes you do.

Yes it does

bull.........

No it won't.

Garcia was never in competition with McNabb

Montana got ousted because of Young

Straws??

& now it's time to tweak the QB position

okay


We are only in our infancy at the QB position.. the rest of the team is at the collegiate level.

thats alot of quotes tk :D

BigWig
02-02-2007, 08:20 AM
Why?

QB75
02-02-2007, 08:34 AM
I don't see that it really matters if they announced it... People would be more in shock if they ditched Carr than said they were keeping him.

If they are so concerned about openly endorsing Carr, how were they so head strong and able to go against the grain and not draft Reggie Bush or Vince Young a year earlier. This Carr situation is small potatoes compared to this Carr marketing issue.

I don't think they really care about public opinion so much. It just shows David Carr is becoming less relevant to this team, which means the first half of 2007 will be critical for Carr if he is to remain a Texan.

As to a public statement regarding David Carr's status right now, they believe that stating that they have decided against a trade would be a much more significant surprise than an intention to trade him. In other words, the public both wants, and expects, a trade. Therefore, if they intend to keep him, they certainly aren't going to reveal that now. Conversely, if they are going to trade him it wouldn't be to their benefit to say that either. So for the current time expect to hear nothing.

Regarding last year's draft, remember that the organization did not reveal the direction they were going (passing on Vince and Reggie to take Mario) until about 14 hours before the 1st pick. Also, note that they had nothing to lose by making that decision public days before the draft if that had wanted to; and the decision had been finalized by the Tuesday or Wednesday before the draft. Since the Texans could have any player they wanted with the first pick, and no team could step in front of them, why didn't they just announce that they were going to take Mario on the Wednesday before the draft? They decided not to because there was no upside to it. They knew the decision was going to be unpopular, so they decided not to announce it until they were basically forced to do it - the [B]Friday night immediately before the draft,[B] after the media had basically ended the day. They didn't want to deal with it any sooner than necessary.

This spring it may be the same with David, as people continue to wonder when they will trade him. They will sign free agents after the Super Bowl, baseball season will open, and it will get later and later. There may not be any announcement. He will just remain on the team. The most likely clue as to the direction they take with David is going to be when they start to sign free agents. If they sign Plummer, as some of you believe they will, then David is not going to be part of the picture because they aren't going to keep 3 veteran QBs. But if they don't sign a free agent QB early, the bet should be that they have decided to go with Carr in 2007.

thunderkyss
02-02-2007, 09:08 AM
As to a public statement regarding David Carr's status right now, they believe that stating that they have decided against a trade would be a much more significant surprise than an intention to trade him. In other words, the public both wants, and expects, a trade. Therefore, if they intend to keep him, they certainly aren't going to reveal that now. Conversely, if they are going to trade him it wouldn't be to their benefit to say that either. So for the current time expect to hear nothing.

It would have been just as easy for Kubiak to say David Struggled with some things.... we expected him to struggle with some things... but he excelled at other things, and that's what we expected. It's going to take time for him to learn this system, and I'm still as confident today as I was in February, That David can learn this system, and implement it effectively on the field.

QB75
02-02-2007, 09:30 AM
It would have been just as easy for Kubiak to say David Struggled with some things.... we expected him to struggle with some things... but he excelled at other things, and that's what we expected. It's going to take time for him to learn this system, and I'm still as confident today as I was in February, That David can learn this system, and implement it effectively on the field.

No, the easiest thing is to be quiet. And that is the path they are taking.

TexanFanInCC
02-02-2007, 12:35 PM
ok this is unrelated to carr. i didnt think it was worth starting a thread for, but its something im curious about. who here thinks kailee wong can still be a starter? anyone think he gets cut?

CowboysTexansFan
02-02-2007, 01:08 PM
No, the easiest thing is to be quiet. And that is the path they are taking.

Yes, the team has been keeping quiet since Rick Smith said in a live interview that the team was not comfortable or satisfied with Carr's play, and that he would bring in someone via free agency or the draft to challenge and possibly unseat Carr at QB.

Smith also kept quiet about Carr in his letter to season ticket holders when he mentioned the names of quality veterans players the team is building around.

At this point none of us knows what the team is going to do about Carr, but I think most objective observers would agree the team is not showing Carr the same level of support it has in the past.

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2007, 02:28 PM
Smith also kept quiet about Carr in his letter to season ticket holders when he mentioned the names of quality veterans players the team is building around.

Really? They left Carr off that list?

hollywood_texan
02-02-2007, 03:00 PM
As to a public statement regarding David Carr's status right now, they believe that stating that they have decided against a trade would be a much more significant surprise than an intention to trade him. In other words, the public both wants, and expects, a trade. Therefore, if they intend to keep him, they certainly aren't going to reveal that now. Conversely, if they are going to trade him it wouldn't be to their benefit to say that either. So for the current time expect to hear nothing.



Quick question, are you in the Texans organization or do you have a reliable source in the Texans organziation? If the answer is no, then you are pulling all of this out of thin air. Several statements above are presented as facts, which there is no basis to your presented facts. Example, you say "they believe that stating that...", how do you know this conclusively? You are just speculating just like everyone else, unless you can answer yes to my question.

Also, I am not expecting them to say anything about Carr directly!

You have said over and over that Carr was not mentioned because the marketing department didn't want to upset a certain portion of the fan base. I think you are wrong! The believe the decision was a little more involved than just saying let's not make a few people upset, which if those people did here Carr was coming back, they wouldn't even be surprised, much less be more upset than they are now.

Also, if the marketing department doesn't do something because someone might get upset like in this situation, then you need to fire everyone in that marketing department. It is there job to Carr from butt cheese to fine wine. For some reason, they have decided not to do that at this time, and I don't think the reason is as simple as you have described.

old football fan
02-02-2007, 03:08 PM
Marketing people are going to use what they believe will bring in people to buy tickets..etc. After the season Carr had he is not an affective marketing tool as is AJ and Ryans. It's not about Carr it's about selling the Texans to Houston.

HOU-TEX
02-02-2007, 03:18 PM
ok this is unrelated to carr. i didnt think it was worth starting a thread for, but its something im curious about. who here thinks kailee wong can still be a starter? anyone think he gets cut?

Morknolle was nice enough to post everything you needed to know in another thread. It's cheaper to keep Wong than to let him go. Thanks again Morknolle.:shades:

http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=34708

SESupergenius
02-02-2007, 06:31 PM
R you saying it took David ten weeks to learn to throw the ball away?? because he ended the last game of the year staring AJ down..... I am just giving an example, I never said it took him until week 10. That was weak.

Not really. Peyton stares in the direction of his reciever a lot, but he's looking at the defense. Usually their routes are designed to make the safety, or the LB choose the deep route, or the under. Which ever he chooses, Peyton goes the other way.I didn't know we were comparing Peyton to Carr. Peyton is one of the all-time greatest QB's, tough job comparing most QB's to him. Most QB's however DO stare down their #1 target.

Yes you do.No i don't. Maybe your armchair QB self does, but that's not the case for everyone.

Yes it doesNo it doesn't

bull......... Nice comeback. There.

No it won't. Yes it will.

Garcia was never in competition with McNabbA veteran pro-bowl QB will always be in competition. There's a lot of rumblings in Philly right now against McNabb and for Garcia.

Montana got ousted because of YoungMontana was traded because he was injured all of the 1991 season and most of the 1992 season with an elbow injury. Young wouldn't have gotten anything had Montana been healthy. 49rs groomed Young behind Montana and he was ready to go once Montana went down. that's not a strange concept as Philly was using the exact formula in their WCO with McNabb and Garcia. this must be killing you.

Straws??nevermind, you obviously won't get it.

& now it's time to tweak the QB positionNo, because none of the other tweaks have come to fruition. Address the defense first and make them a top 16 defense. Build an running game that is in the top 10, THEN tweak the QB. dont' just go throwing in any QB hoping all the other problems will go away. Many teams try to do this and just end up going from QB to QB. Build a solid foundation first. If not then bring back Capers, Casslery and Fangio because obviously it was just David Carr that was the problem and they'll have us in the top 16 in defense and rushing by the end of next season.

okayalright


We are only in our infancy at the QB position.. the rest of the team is at the collegiate level.Ah yes, another jab without insight or facts. nice. Par for the course.

SESupergenius
02-02-2007, 06:35 PM
It would have been just as easy for Kubiak to say David Struggled with some things.... we expected him to struggle with some things... but he excelled at other things, and that's what we expected. It's going to take time for him to learn this system, and I'm still as confident today as I was in February, That David can learn this system, and implement it effectively on the field.

I'm confused. First you blast Carr left and right and then you think he can learn the system and implement it effectively. Are you walking on the fence with each footstep?

hollywood_texan
02-02-2007, 06:46 PM
I
No, because none of the other tweaks have come to fruition. Address the defense first and make them a top 16 defense. Build an running game that is in the top 10, THEN tweak the QB. dont' just go throwing in any QB hoping all the other problems will go away. Many teams try to do this and just end up going from QB to QB. Build a solid foundation first. If not then bring back Capers, Casslery and Fangio because obviously it was just David Carr that was the problem and they'll have us in the top 16 in defense and rushing by the end of next season.

Fair enough that we should focus on the items you state. But, the issue with Carr is the amount of money that he is paid and he is a #1 draft. With those two items, you should expect more in terms of production, even with less than steller talent around him.

Taking your philosophy into account, it appears the Texans shouldn't have drafted Carr from the very beginning. Actually, they shouldn't have drafted a QB for about 5 years to build the base, as you kind of put it.

Basically, it was a very poor decision to draft a Carr as the #1 draft pick, regardless of his talent, production, or whatever. I'm just following your logic here...

SESupergenius
02-02-2007, 07:03 PM
Fair enough that we should focus on the items you state. But, the issue with Carr is the amount of money that he is paid and he is a #1 draft. With those two items, you should expect more in terms of production, even with less than steller talent around him.

Taking your philosophy into account, it appears the Texans shouldn't have drafted Carr from the very beginning. Actually, they shouldn't have drafted a QB for about 5 years to build the base, as you kind of put it.

Basically, it was a very poor decision to draft a Carr as the #1 draft pick, regardless of his talent, production, or whatever. I'm just following your logic here...
Oh, I completely understand about the money issue. I figured that since Carr was given the bonus he was here a minimum of 2 years since they committed to him in that way and to cut his tenure short would be too costly for the Texans. I thought that picking VY would have made a lot more sense from a marketing standpoint with the huge area following he had or that selecting Reggie Bush made just about as much sense as well considering our RB was no healthy and couldn't stay healthy. But all of that was behind us since we committed to Carr. At this point I am more concerned with the defensive backs play and what we are going to do with the interior linemen on both sides of the ball than I am about the QB position. It's been stated that this offense is based on the running game, I am wanting us to build that up first and create a solid foundation for whomever the QB is because when it comes time for our QB to step up, he will have all the tools available to him to win the games we need to take us to the next level.

As far as drafting a QB, I was probably one of the only ones around here that thought that Julius Peppers would make a great 3-4 linebacker. I got blasted routinely for that take as I thought building a solid defense was the #1 priority. I didn't think picking David Carr was bad because I had seen him play in person under an offense that like to open things up a bit. I did however disagree with Capers' philosophy in starting Carr right away. i thought that was a monumental mistake in his development. some QB's do better after taking it all in first on the sidelines for a while, especially on an expansion team where our offensive line was a question mark with Boselli not able to play.

tsip
02-02-2007, 07:43 PM
...there you go! We'll build the company first and then we'll hire a CEO!! Who cares about the cost or profits or direction--we'll have a foundation and worry about the person running it later--works for me....:marionaner: :tease:

TwinSisters
02-02-2007, 08:15 PM
...there you go! We'll build the company first and then we'll hire a CEO!! Who cares about the cost or profits or direction--we'll have a foundation and worry about the person running it later--works for me....:marionaner: :tease:

Not really though... if we call Ryans the leader. I think that would solve that problem right?

I think so.

tsip
02-02-2007, 08:48 PM
Not really though... if we call Ryans the leader. I think that would solve that problem right?

I think so.

We're talking about the QB on the offense--what does that have to do with Ryans?...kidding, right?

old football fan
02-02-2007, 09:47 PM
...there you go! We'll build the company first and then we'll hire a CEO!! Who cares about the cost or profits or direction--we'll have a foundation and worry about the person running it later--works for me....:marionaner: :tease:

Seems to me that's the way most companies are built, I'm sure J.C.Penney hired a CEO before he started his company.

TwinSisters
02-02-2007, 10:44 PM
We're talking about the QB on the offense--what does that have to do with Ryans?...kidding, right?

yeah, sorta.

The only reason I brought Ryans up, is because I think you could center a LB in the "team" leader role and build around him. Like the Ravens, Bears have.. which is like the reverse of the traditional QB route ( like the Manning-Colts, Elway-Broncos,etc. ).

TwinSisters
02-02-2007, 10:52 PM
Seems to me that's the way most companies are built, I'm sure J.C.Penney hired a CEO before he started his company.

So to clarify... the CEO doesn't have to be the QB. If you make the MLB the CEO and the QB the head vice senior manager executive of the mailroom. Your company could still make money.

The better the defense, the less points the offense has to make to win. So in that sense it's okay... so long as someone can get Carr to take mailroom manager pay.

thunderkyss
02-02-2007, 11:13 PM
I'm confused. First you blast Carr left and right and then you think he can learn the system and implement it effectively. Are you walking on the fence with each footstep?

I said it would be easier for Kubiak to say that stuff, if he believed that stuff.

I do not believe any of that......... Your first impression of me is correct.

I do not think we should waste anymore time with David Carr.

I think we will.

I don't think we should.

TwinSisters
02-02-2007, 11:23 PM
I said it would be easier for Kubiak to say that stuff, if he believed that stuff.

I do not believe any of that......... Your first impression of me is correct.

I do not think we should waste anymore time with David Carr.

I think we will.

I don't think we should.

and I will cap one on here too.

transcript from Giants game:
Q: Did he make a point of coming up to you after the game to say you’re their guy?

A: Yeah, he did actually, which was kind of nice. At the time, I didn’t really think too much about it. I was pretty upset, obviously. He didn’t have to do that. He came up to me and reassured me that we were going to be here for a long time, so it’s just something we have to learn from. It happens to a lot of guys, so, it just hasn’t…I can’t remember the last time it’s happened to me, especially with how I was going the last couple of weeks. I felt pretty good.

http://www.giants.com/news/transcripts/story.asp?story_id=21887

thunderkyss
02-02-2007, 11:25 PM
Oh, I completely understand about the money issue. I figured that since Carr was given the bonus he was here a minimum of 2 years since they committed to him in that way and to cut his tenure short would be too costly for the Texans. I thought that picking VY would have made a lot more sense from a marketing standpoint with the huge area following he had or that selecting Reggie Bush made just about as much sense as well considering our RB was no healthy and couldn't stay healthy. But all of that was behind us since we committed to Carr. At this point I am more concerned with the defensive backs play and what we are going to do with the interior linemen on both sides of the ball than I am about the QB position. It's been stated that this offense is based on the running game, I am wanting us to build that up first and create a solid foundation for whomever the QB is because when it comes time for our QB to step up, he will have all the tools available to him to win the games we need to take us to the next level.

As far as drafting a QB, I was probably one of the only ones around here that thought that Julius Peppers would make a great 3-4 linebacker. I got blasted routinely for that take as I thought building a solid defense was the #1 priority. I didn't think picking David Carr was bad because I had seen him play in person under an offense that like to open things up a bit. I did however disagree with Capers' philosophy in starting Carr right away. i thought that was a monumental mistake in his development. some QB's do better after taking it all in first on the sidelines for a while, especially on an expansion team where our offensive line was a question mark with Boselli not able to play.

Great..... we are on the same page. Let's dump Carr, save ourselves $3 million towards the cap. Start Sage, Bradlee(going on his third year in Kubiak's system) can be our backup, we still got Porter in the wings....


Let's put together a team that demands a defense at least acknowledges an ability to pass the ball 15-20 yards on any given play, & give our running backs some breathing room.

Let's see if Sage can beat a blitz, and make the Defenses think twice about selling out.

& Peppers is way too big to play a 3-4 outside linebacker.... he's got the size of a 3-4 DE though but way too athletic. He's 6'7".... 290 lbs.. 'bout Mario's size.

thunderkyss
02-02-2007, 11:35 PM
and I will cap one on here too.

transcript from Giants game:

http://www.giants.com/news/transcripts/story.asp?story_id=21887

LIke I said......

I have very little doubt that David will be with the Texans in '07. I think a lot of people are letting themselves get worked up for no reason.

QB75
02-03-2007, 09:59 AM
...there you go! We'll build the company first and then we'll hire a CEO!! Who cares about the cost or profits or direction--we'll have a foundation and worry about the person running it later--works for me....:marionaner: :tease:

The Head Coach is the CEO. They replaced him last year. His name is Gary Kubiak.

Honoring Earl 34
02-03-2007, 10:14 AM
It would have been just as easy for Kubiak to say David Struggled with some things.... we expected him to struggle with some things... but he excelled at other things, and that's what we expected. It's going to take time for him to learn this system, and I'm still as confident today as I was in February, That David can learn this system, and implement it effectively on the field.

(on Carr’s ability to audible) “We don’t check very much in our scheme we feel like the things we call adjust to what’s going on. As far as him having a ton of freedom at the line of scrimmage, it doesn’t operate that way. We will check out of bad plays, but just to go out there and say, ‘Do whatever you want to do,’ we’re not at that point yet, but we’ll get there someday. We don’t do much of that. They still played us in a lot of two-deep and they played us in quarters, they gave us a little bit of man coverage, we had a chance to make a big play on the go-route to (WR) Andre (Johnson) versus man free. That play can be a difference in the game, we had a big play to make to (TE) Owen (Daniels) coming out of our own end zone (that) could have been an 85 yard big play and we don’t make that play. So we had our chances to make about two or three big plays and those are usually difference makers and we didn’t make them yesterday, they did.”

tsip
02-03-2007, 11:57 AM
The Head Coach is the CEO. They replaced him last year. His name is Gary Kubiak.

...we were talking about players...you know, teams do have players that are leaders...well, maybe not all teams on both sides of tha ball...ok, what the heck, Gary Kubiak can be our offensive CEO on the field

Referee
02-03-2007, 03:48 PM
I agree wwff i was willing to get rid of him last year when the draft was deep with good quarterbacks. But Kubiak made a commitment to stick with Carr for 3 yrs., so the least they can do is give him another year to get it right. They must have seen something good about him the last 4 years to give him the contract. So just build around him next year and lets make the playoffs.....go Texans:redtowel: :yahoo:


Would you rather see him do better elsewhere?

Miami needs a quarterback... What would he fetch a second round pick?

Give him the additional time...

QB75
02-03-2007, 06:04 PM
Carr should be gone. First, he is-for whatever reasons-not starter material. Second, he would not be any better as a back-up. Third, he is not qualified to train or develope a newbie.

It hasn't been talked about much on the board-though a couple players have hinted about it-but there has to be at least a 'little' resentment among his team mates the way Carr 'walks' a different line than they do...

Maybe he "should" be gone, but I wouldn't bet too much on when it will happen!:dance2: