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Silver Oak
12-25-2006, 08:14 AM
I'm semi hesitant to post this as it's another Carr thread, BUT, this is what Steve McKinney had to say after the game....courtesy of The Chronic.

""David is not a one-man team," McKinney said. "He can't win the game by himself. When the guys around him play the way they're capable of playing, he's going to look like a much better quarterback. That's what happened today.

"When you're able to run the football and you keep him protected, you're going to have a lot more success and he's going to look better. David is a fine quarterback. He has all the skills and the leadership skills that we need at that position."

Thats pretty good praise from a veteran of the NFL I think. There are a lot of DC detractors on this board, but I think he deserves to be in the mix next season to compete for the starting job.

Merry Christmas and Go Texans!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4425085.html

Goldeagle
12-25-2006, 10:08 AM
The smart football people know this. But as Caddy said this MB is about flame wars!

Good post, Ive read or heard that quite a few times from the players and big props to McKinney for stepping up.

#Ocho
12-25-2006, 10:31 AM
I live near two horrible NFL teams named the 49ers and Raiders. You don't hear the vile garbage from their fans like you do from these Texans "fans" that bash Carr. I'm talking about the Raiders for crying out loud. You simply do not have the Wongers, etc. bashing their guys anywhere close like you so called basher fans do. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

Oh, I've even talked to former Raider linebacker Jerry Robinson not too long ago and he told me that I know who really is coaching that team. Al Davis. That's why Gruden left.

Fans like your bashers is reason enough for David and his family to leave Houston.

Texan Asylum
12-25-2006, 11:03 AM
Thanks Silver Oak...

Being a Carr fan, aka Homer, I really do like it when something positive comes out about him.

Go Texans!!!

One more to finish the year with...2-0!!! :aikido:

threetoedpete
12-25-2006, 11:14 AM
The only thing I gotta say about that Silver Oak is where the heck has the "I got your back" been for two months ? DC's been the judas goat long enough...time to fish or cut bait on him.

I also heard the WCO QB guru said Via Bob Allen's lap dog, Spencer Tillman...He thought Carrs ONLY problem was that he was pressing two much and looking for plays that weren't there. He was forcing the ball too much. Gee I wonder what that is, Walsh ? Could it bee the guy is tired of looking through the ear hole of his helmet at the end of passing plays ?

Vinny
12-25-2006, 11:20 AM
Thanks Silver Oak...

Being a Carr fan, aka Homer, I really do like it when something positive comes out about him.being a Carr fan doesn't make you a homer. It makes you a Carr fan. Spinning all Texans news in a positive light makes one a homer, not being a fan of any one player. Nothing wrong with being a homer though. I'm one too to some extent....Mainly away from here, but I tend to try to 'keep it real' for the most part.

NEROtheZERO
12-25-2006, 11:27 AM
I was afraid this was going to happen.

Carr didn't even have a good game today, I can't tell you the number of bad passes he threw today. But, we have one game where the rest of the team played good and Carr doesn't make any turnovers and he is all of a sudden sufficient. What about the games when he fumbles the ball four times? What about the interceptions he throws into triple and quadruple coverage? -5 passing yards?

Come on guys.

Texan Asylum
12-25-2006, 11:30 AM
being a Carr fan doesn't make you a homer. It makes you a Carr fan. Spinning all Texans news in a positive light makes one a homer, not being a fan of any one player. Nothing wrong with being a homer though. I'm one too to some extent....Mainly away from here, but I tend to try to 'keep it real' for the most part.


You trying to pick a fight with me Vin??? :) :shades:

I play along with the 'homer' title. My biggest problem is I'm a 'defender' of ALL that I care for and hold dear...to a fault. It's what got me in many a fight when I was younger and much more wilder. Got my very first set of stitches at an AC/DC concert for defending a buddy, that needed to have his tail whipped for what he did, but didn't matter to me...he was my friend. Same with the Texans. Defending them has become second nature in most of us. Having someone volunteer good sentiments like this is sure a nice change of pace.

the wonger need food
12-25-2006, 11:34 AM
Fans like your bashers is reason enough for David and his family to leave Houston.


Boo friggin' hoo. That's probably the most ignorant statement I've ever read on this board. Every QB in every town gets criticized. Don't let your love for David Carr get in the way of common sense. And when you decide to pull your head out of your arse go check out the Buffalo message board sometime. We are easy on Carr compared to the treatment that Losman gets over there. And the only reason that Walter and Brooks aren't "bashed" more is because most Raiders fans don't know how to type.

Vinny
12-25-2006, 11:36 AM
You trying to pick a fight with me Vin??? :) :shades:

I play along with the 'homer' title. My biggest problem is I'm a 'defender' of ALL that I care for and hold dear...to a fault. It's what got me in many a fight when I was younger and much more wilder. Got my very first set of stitches at an AC/DC concert for defending a buddy, that needed to have his tail whipped for what he did, but didn't matter to me...he was my friend. Same with the Texans. Defending them has become second nature in most of us. Having someone volunteer good sentiments like this is sure a nice change of pace.I can't see you as a wild guy...I'll take your word for it though. :) If we beat the Browns we have 6 wins. The homer in me likes the sound of that even though this year has been full of moaning and crying...myself included.

HJam72
12-25-2006, 11:38 AM
I was afraid this was going to happen.

Carr didn't even have a good game today, I can't tell you the number of bad passes he threw today. But, we have one game where the rest of the team played good and Carr doesn't make any turnovers and he is all of a sudden sufficient. What about the games when he fumbles the ball four times? What about the interceptions he throws into triple and quadruple coverage? -5 passing yards?

Come on guys.

He only had 7 incompletions. I doubt he had some boatload of just awefull stuff.

As far as those games where he was at his worst: duly noted.


For all of you who do not want to know what Carr's passer rating was for Sunday's game and would like to spit at the screen when you see that he has a high passer rating for any game: (tough) :) 104.0

disaacks3
12-25-2006, 11:38 AM
I was afraid this was going to happen.

Carr didn't even have a good game today, I can't tell you the number of bad passes he threw today. But, we have one game where the rest of the team played good and Carr doesn't make any turnovers and he is all of a sudden sufficient. What about the games when he fumbles the ball four times? What about the interceptions he throws into triple and quadruple coverage? -5 passing yards?

Come on guys. Wow, just WOW... He RUNS for a 1st down up the middle and made BIG plays when he needed to w/ no INT's & no fumbles, but he still didn't even have a GOOD game?

..Rose-colored glasses are one thing, what color is HATE exactly? :shades:

Texan Asylum
12-25-2006, 11:40 AM
I can't see you as a wild guy...I'll take your word for it though. :) If we beat the Browns we have 6 wins. The homer in me likes the sound of that even though this year has been full of moaning and crying...myself included.
I like the sound of finishing the year with a 2 game winning streak!

And the wild part? I left that behind a while back. :secret:

trublu
12-25-2006, 11:45 AM
I was afraid this was going to happen.

Carr didn't even have a good game today, I can't tell you the number of bad passes he threw today. But, we have one game where the rest of the team played good and Carr doesn't make any turnovers and he is all of a sudden sufficient. What about the games when he fumbles the ball four times? What about the interceptions he throws into triple and quadruple coverage? -5 passing yards?

Come on guys.

That's bull. Carr had a good game; he didn't carry the team on his back, but he made plays when he had to. The funny thing is that when Vince Young has a game like this he's a "hall of famer" to most of this board. Yeah Carr has had bad games but when he plays a good game like he did on Sunday he should get his due that's all. Nobody is saying he should be in the pro-bowl or in the hall of fame, just give him his due. Plus this thread was started because of props that Carr got from his own team-mate, who I think might have more insight than you.

Wolf
12-25-2006, 11:50 AM
I don't know about Carr throwing a bunch of bad passes, he had 7 incompletions

I recall him throwing 2 balls away as he rolled out of the pocket,

I recall a screen pass that freeney came in really fast and Carr barely got it off and ball was thrown down to the ground(don't know if Carrs arm was hit or what)

I remember one deep pass to a TE that was overthrown and poorly thrown

and I think his first pass was horrible from what people were saying.



other than that, I didn't see what some are seeing

the wonger need food
12-25-2006, 11:54 AM
McKinney always says good things about Carr. We've heard this quote from him for 5 years.

I thought the more interesting quote in the article was from McNair. It sounds like he might be changing his stance on sacraficing everything to try and make Carr successful...

"We're going to look at everybody," McNair said. "Were going to do what we need to do to have the strongest possible team. I'm really happy for David. We have another game against Cleveland. We have to get ready for that. And I hope he continues to perform that way."

Vinny
12-25-2006, 11:55 AM
other than that, I didn't see what some are seeingI've been getting rid of "redundant argument guy" slowly but surely the last week...just try to ignore some of these guys. Some of them just want attention.

Texan Asylum
12-25-2006, 12:01 PM
"redundant argument guy"

:stirpot:

New title alert!!!

NEROtheZERO
12-25-2006, 12:09 PM
I don't know about Carr throwing a bunch of bad passes, he had 7 incompletions

I recall him throwing 2 balls away as he rolled out of the pocket,

I recall a screen pass that freeney came in really fast and Carr barely got it off and ball was thrown down to the ground(don't know if Carrs arm was hit or what)

I remember one deep pass to a TE that was overthrown and poorly thrown

and I think his first pass was horrible from what people were saying.



other than that, I didn't see what some are seeing

Off the top of my head there was the pass to Andre, who was wide open, in the first quarter that was thrown severely behind him. A couple plays after that there was the throw to Vonta that was low and behind him that he made an incredible catch on. There were also a couple of deep throws toward the end zone that were badly thrown.

Carr didn't mess up, I give him that, but you can't let a game of just getting by cloud his bad performances. I guess this is moot though, McNair is sticking with Carr and I'll have to live with it.

South Texan
12-25-2006, 12:13 PM
Well, on the homer side of this thing, maybe Carr is starting to show more leadership and that is why McKinny is standing up for him.

I think the real question is will Carr improve with more help from Kubiack and a better O-Line. But I guess that is for another thread.

Vinny
12-25-2006, 12:16 PM
Well, on the homer side of this thing, maybe Carr is starting to show more leadership and that is why McKinny is standing up for him.

I think the real question is will Carr improve with more help from Kubiack and a better O-Line. But I guess that is for another thread.I think completing a clutch 17 yard gain in the middle of the field on the game winning FG drive had more to do with Carr's good game than his "leadership" or lack of the same. We haven't seen that out of him much over the years (clutch plays in key moments). If he can find that in himself more often he wouldn't have so many people crying about his leadership.

touttail
12-25-2006, 12:22 PM
Also, glad to see Kubes get some nuts and go for it on 4th down.

Boy Peyton was so pissed when they didn't go on 4th down.

bobby 119C:yahoo:

South Texan
12-25-2006, 12:24 PM
I think completing a clutch 17 yard gain in the middle of the field on the game winning FG drive had more to do with Carr's good game than his "leadership" or lack of the same. We haven't seen that out of him much over the years (clutch plays in key moments). If he can find that in himself more often he wouldn't have so many people crying about his leadership.

Yeah, that's why I started my post with "On the homer side of this thing". :)

joedinkle
12-25-2006, 01:21 PM
I don't know about Carr throwing a bunch of bad passes, he had 7 incompletions

I recall him throwing 2 balls away as he rolled out of the pocket,

I recall a screen pass that freeney came in really fast and Carr barely got it off and ball was thrown down to the ground(don't know if Carrs arm was hit or what)

I remember one deep pass to a TE that was overthrown and poorly thrown

and I think his first pass was horrible from what people were saying.



other than that, I didn't see what some are seeing

and to add on to that, I remember Eric Moulds droping a pass. It was a little low, but he managed to get ahold of it for a second...and then he droped it. that's on Moulds to me, not carr. and peyton's first through was overthrown. he had a couple of low balls. i remember one where the play was challenged, and even though it was ruled a catch, it was clearly down before it got to the receiver(stupid refs). I'm back and forth on carr. as of now, I still think we need to bring in a rookie in maybe the 3rd round for grooming in case carr stinks it up next season(Kolb?)

cuppacoffee
12-25-2006, 02:46 PM
I've been getting rid of "redundant argument guy" slowly but surely the last week...just try to ignore some of these guys. Some of them just want attention.

Some of our more artistic posters should be able to put

"redundant argument guy" to the real men of genius music/lyrics.

You couldn't possibly be referring to me..:hides:, defending Carr and decrying the release of Wand?.. :D

:jk:

:coffee:

Texanfan4ever
12-25-2006, 02:54 PM
Yeah, that's why I started my post with "On the homer side of this thing". :)


I am a David supporter AND a true HOMER and proud of it. Did ya'll see Peyton's face when the game was over. HE COULDN'T BELIEVE IT HAD HAPPENED TO HIM. :tease:


YEA FOR OUR TEXANS!!!!! :yahoo:

Best picture - David on Kris Brown!!!

mganz
12-25-2006, 02:58 PM
Off the top of my head there was the pass to Andre, who was wide open, in the first quarter that was thrown severely behind him. A couple plays after that there was the throw to Vonta that was low and behind him that he made an incredible catch on. There were also a couple of deep throws toward the end zone that were badly thrown.

Carr didn't mess up, I give him that, but you can't let a game of just getting by cloud his bad performances. I guess this is moot though, McNair is sticking with Carr and I'll have to live with it.

One of those deep balls was over thrown and the other was thrown away. The throw away was a good thing. Not defending any bad games, today he was efficient

TreWardTxn
12-25-2006, 03:08 PM
First off, great game and congratulations to Texans nation, but I can't judge a quarterback in a game against the WORST rush defense and playing for a team which has nothing to lose. The worst that could happen is that he might lose his job this offseason, which I'm not sure he would be opposed to (and still be paid); so although this is a historic win for the Texans, I wouldn't use it as any type of litmus test for Carr's ability. The more important note to me is that Kubiak was able to motivate the entire team to play hard against a team which is still fighting for playoff position; good job there...

OzzO
12-25-2006, 04:13 PM
From that same article, can someone explain what the heck this has to do with anything?
..."It was big to see the guys' faces on the sidelines and to see how they came up to me to say, 'Congratulations. You deserve it,' " said Carr, who completed 16 of 23 passes for 163 yards and one touchdown. "You can't beat that. We all make a lot of money in this locker room — all around the league.

"Winning games is fun. Losing games is hard. But to have that kind of camaraderie to where guys just come up individually and shake your hand and say, 'You deserve it' ... that means more to me than anything."

Also, hopefully ALL the players deserve this win, not just one. This was one of the all around better played games by all sides of the ball that I've seen from the Texans in a long time.

Also, congrats to Andre. The first Texan to eclipse the 100 reception mark for the franchise in a season. (35th NFL player to do it.)

The other 100+ congrats to Dayne. A career high for him with 153 yards rushing, first 100+ with the Texans, and 56 yards shy of breaking the franchise record. (1st and 2nd held by DD - 158 on 12/26/04 vs. Jax and 155 on 12/4/05 vs. Bal).

#Ocho
12-25-2006, 05:36 PM
I think the context of the whole thing is that the guys are showing their support for a guy that has taken so much criticism which much of it is deserved. I don't see the context of the quotes as being about one guy. It was more that he was happy the guys are showing support.

Guess what? That may give him a little more confidence in the future (assuming he starts playing with it) right?

OzzO
12-25-2006, 05:44 PM
Ah, that may be it. Maybe pointing out he's making the same $ range as others in the locker room / around the league. Just struck me odd he mentioned something like that.

#Ocho
12-25-2006, 05:50 PM
The money quote is him saying he's getting paid a lot and he better start showing he's worthy of making that much since it's obvious that he hasn't really earned it. I think that's what he meant.

TexansSeminole
12-25-2006, 05:54 PM
I was afraid this was going to happen.

Carr didn't even have a good game today, I can't tell you the number of bad passes he threw today. But, we have one game where the rest of the team played good and Carr doesn't make any turnovers and he is all of a sudden sufficient. What about the games when he fumbles the ball four times? What about the interceptions he throws into triple and quadruple coverage? -5 passing yards?

Come on guys.

I have to agree almost completely here.

The guy threw some good balls for the first time in a long time, but his receivers were fighting for this game. Vonta Leach played a hell of a game too. There were times when David threw a ball to Vonta and Vonta caught it and fought a tackle to get the first down.

We will not have that much success in running the football very often, I am glad David took advantage of it this game.

But I have got to agree. I can't forget David's horrible play after seeing him play one efficient game.

DatTexBoy
12-25-2006, 06:03 PM
First off, great game and congratulations to Texans nation, but I can't judge a quarterback in a game against the WORST rush defense and playing for a team which has nothing to lose. The worst that could happen is that he might lose his job this offseason, which I'm not sure he would be opposed to (and still be paid); so although this is a historic win for the Texans, I wouldn't use it as any type of litmus test for Carr's ability. The more important note to me is that Kubiak was able to motivate the entire team to play hard against a team which is still fighting for playoff position; good job there...


Nice post. If I had to compliment Carr it would be the clutch play for the winning field goal and the throw away passes when he was under pressure...six weeks ago those are sacks...hell last week it would have been sacks

eriadoc
12-25-2006, 09:16 PM
Carr can be a middle-of-the-road, managing QB, maybe a little better. He's not going to be Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, or Drew Brees, I don't think (I'd love to be proven wrong). I fully believe he's better than Trent Dilfer the year he won a Super Bowl, and as efficient, with better tools, than Brad Johnson the year he won a Super Bowl.

Given that, I understand the desire to upgrade the position. Jake Plummer, Jeff Garcia, and Damon Huard are not upgrades to the position. You take any of those QBs and put them on this team and they'll look as bad or worse than Carr. Jake "The Mistake" Plummer got benched even though his team was 7-2 with him as the starter. Put that Mistake on this team and you really think he'd do any better? Anyone remember how badly Garcia played on a bad Browns team? All of a sudden he's a good QB now? That wouldn't have anything to do with the solid team around him, I suppose.

What we need is a QB that can come to a bad team and overcome poor play by his teammates and make plays despite the rest of the team. So do about 25 other teams. Fix the rest of the team and draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round - one that won't require a huge signing bonus and can learn Kubiak's system. In the meantime, get the rest of the team to play like they did yesterday.

Just my two cents ... YMMV.

Ibar_Harry
12-25-2006, 09:35 PM
Also, glad to see Kubes get some nuts and go for it on 4th down.

Boy Peyton was so pissed when they didn't go on 4th down.

bobby 119C:yahoo:

And he was right because I think that cost the Colts the game. He knew what was happening and why they had to go for it.

Ibar_Harry
12-25-2006, 09:55 PM
Carr has not had a lot of help from the Texans for a long time. The game on Sunday was interesting from a lot of points of view.

To begin with a running attack finally showed up and was scary enough to cause the defense to be on their heels rather than their toes. That made a lot of difference in this game. David even threw a completion with Fenney in his face. He seemed to have confidence in his line despite what has been happening.

AJ had a good game, but could have been the goat had we lost it because of the Dayne TD being called back. He and Carr redeemed each other with the 17 yard catch.

The coaches were arguing all day about when to stretch the field. Kubiak never said whether they finally reached agreement.

You know what, the team played a great game and we won because they stuck together despite all that was going on around them.

I would like to digress for a few moments and say it has been very tough for David in Houston. The O-line and the running game are responsible for so many of his problems. To begin with all of us would agree that David has a lot of tipped passes. That is the result of passing lanes being closed and defenders leaping in the air when they can't reach the QB. D Linemen are taught to get their arms up when they feel no pressure meaning that it would appear a pass is inprogress.

We are throwing short flat passes which are easily blocked when least expected. There are advantages and disadvantages with each type of throw.
ALL I'm saying is there is a lot more to the game than a lot of people realize.

And finally to all of those Mario hatters I had to laugh, because Mario did what McNair said we had to do to beat the Colts. We had to do something defensively against them, because we weren't going to beat them in a shoot out. Well, Mario did force a fumble which lead to a TD. Without that TD or the rest of them we wouldn't have beat the Colts. So in affect, Mr. McNair and the Texans were right in their choice of Mario.

If you would have told us we would have the record we have and yet had beaten the Jags twice and the Colts once, I don't think anyone would believe you. Our goal was to beat the Jags and Colts and let everything else fall in place. We did that, but things just didn't fall in place.

Silver Oak
12-25-2006, 10:12 PM
well said Ibar.

+ rep your way!

ArlingtonTexan
12-25-2006, 10:24 PM
I think completing a clutch 17 yard gain in the middle of the field on the game winning FG drive had more to do with Carr's good game than his "leadership" or lack of the same. We haven't seen that out of him much over the years (clutch plays in key moments). If he can find that in himself more often he wouldn't have so many people crying about his leadership.

If we knew week to week this was the version of Carr we would get most of the time, then I believe a greater portion of the fan base could at least live with him at QB. The best part of yesterday was that he made the couple of key throws he was asked to make in vital situations. I suspect that Texans' fans will see this type of QB play (don't carry us, but don't mess up either) next year whether its from Carr or the list of suspects people come up with.

sleepwalker
12-26-2006, 06:16 AM
104 passer rating.....Steve said it best, when the team around Carr plays better so does he.

I love reading people's threads who are treading water, trying not to eat their words about Carr.

One more comment: watch the game film again, if you think that first pass to Andre wasnt covered by a LB underneath jumping the route, then you're blind....Carr threw it away just like he was supposed to do....Fans boo'd, you can hear it on the tape...Unbelievable stupidity by some fans.

Chance_C
12-26-2006, 11:33 AM
I think completing a clutch 17 yard gain in the middle of the field on the game winning FG drive had more to do with Carr's good game than his "leadership" or lack of the same. We haven't seen that out of him much over the years (clutch plays in key moments). If he can find that in himself more often he wouldn't have so many people crying about his leadership.

And the throw to Chris Taylor on the sidelines was pretty clutch as well.

Double Barrel
12-26-2006, 11:49 AM
Carr didn't mess up, I give him that, but you can't let a game of just getting by cloud his bad performances. I guess this is moot though, McNair is sticking with Carr and I'll have to live with it.

Check that: KUBIAK is sticking with Carr and we all have to live with it. He's our QB until our HC tells us otherwise.

Carr can be a middle-of-the-road, managing QB, maybe a little better. He's not going to be Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, or Drew Brees, I don't think (I'd love to be proven wrong). I fully believe he's better than Trent Dilfer the year he won a Super Bowl, and as efficient, with better tools, than Brad Johnson the year he won a Super Bowl.

Given that, I understand the desire to upgrade the position. Jake Plummer, Jeff Garcia, and Damon Huard are not upgrades to the position. You take any of those QBs and put them on this team and they'll look as bad or worse than Carr. Jake "The Mistake" Plummer got benched even though his team was 7-2 with him as the starter. Put that Mistake on this team and you really think he'd do any better? Anyone remember how badly Garcia played on a bad Browns team? All of a sudden he's a good QB now? That wouldn't have anything to do with the solid team around him, I suppose.

What we need is a QB that can come to a bad team and overcome poor play by his teammates and make plays despite the rest of the team. So do about 25 other teams. Fix the rest of the team and draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round - one that won't require a huge signing bonus and can learn Kubiak's system. In the meantime, get the rest of the team to play like they did yesterday.

Just my two cents ... YMMV.

Great post, and pretty much along the lines of what I've been saying for awhile. Carr reminds me of a mobile Trent Dilfer, and if we can have a consistent running game, consistent protection, and a solid defense, we can win more than we lose and get our foot in the playoffs.

The big question - outside of building a team around him - is if Carr can be a consistently decent QB week in/week out. Like Dilfer and Brad Johnson, we need him to manage games without giving them away with stupid mistakes. However, I trust Kubiak's judgement and ability to assess QBs, so I think Carr can be a consistently decent QB under Kubiak's guidance.

If we knew week to week this was the version of Carr we would get most of the time, then I believe a greater portion of the fan base could at least live with him at QB. The best part of yesterday was that he made the couple of key throws he was asked to make in vital situations. I suspect that Texans' fans will see this type of QB play (don't carry us, but don't mess up either) next year whether its from Carr or the list of suspects people come up with.

Exactly. Having a solid running game takes a lot of pressure off of the QB, which gives him fewer opportunities to make mistakes. And without that added pressure, he was able to put together some nice throws in key situations. Major props to Carr for coming through, and let's just hope the team can do it again next Sunday against the Browns.

QB75
12-26-2006, 12:15 PM
I was afraid this was going to happen.

Carr didn't even have a good game today, I can't tell you the number of bad passes he threw today. But, we have one game where the rest of the team played good and Carr doesn't make any turnovers and he is all of a sudden sufficient. What about the games when he fumbles the ball four times? What about the interceptions he throws into triple and quadruple coverage? -5 passing yards?

Come on guys.

Great post. The fact that you can't give Carr any credit for beating the Colts simply shows your bias. What about this? What about that? What about the win! No picks, no sacks, no fumbles, great execution, nice rifle shot passes, great run when we needed it = great performance. Wait until you see the performance next week. Glad he is cementing his position for next year.

dantem
12-26-2006, 12:55 PM
I was afraid this was going to happen.



It's frustrating when the guy youv'e been hating on proves you might be a bad judge of talent.... isn't it.

dirty steve
12-26-2006, 12:59 PM
I've been getting rid of "redundant argument guy" slowly but surely the last week...just try to ignore some of these guys. Some of them just want attention.
prolly why i banned myself this week from any thread that has any mention of that team that used to play here or the QB that used to play here that now plays up there.

on Carr:
I think it was an absolute message game for not only the fans, but himself also. I was happy to David come up and make the big throw to AJ on the 17 yard gain and the sideline pass to Taylor (I think) when he was flushed from the pocket. we'll see what this offseason brings...I am excited.

BTW--not letdowns on Sunday against the Browns. rememeber Week 17 in 2004.

Vinny
12-26-2006, 01:01 PM
eh, you weren't on my radar....

If they lose to the Browns and their back up QB all this feel good stuff from the Colts game is toilet water.

Double Barrel
12-26-2006, 01:03 PM
If they lose to the Browns and their back up QB all this feel good stuff from the Colts game is toilet water.

yep, how fragile it is right now, 'eh?

Texan_Bill
12-26-2006, 01:14 PM
A couple plays after that there was the throw to Vonta that was low and behind him that he made an incredible catch on. .

I'm glad you mentioned this.... Because that's exactly how a "team" wins... Players are supposed to make plays and pick up their team mates. Okay, it was behind Vonta, so Vonta made a play which picked up Carr and made that a successful play for the "team".

ArlingtonTexan
12-26-2006, 01:18 PM
eh, you weren't on my radar....

If they lose to the Browns and their back up QB all this feel good stuff from the Colts game is toilet water.


Unfortunately, we have been down this street before. Putting two good solid football games back to back will say a lot about the direction to the league.

Texan_Bill
12-26-2006, 01:25 PM
BTW--not letdowns on Sunday against the Browns. rememeber Week 17 in 2004.

LOL at banning yourself!

Yes, I remember. That was huge! We could have been 8-8 instead of 7-9.. (No coulda woulda shoulda's here) BUT the real impact was last season 2-14. It seemed that the Cleveland game was the catalyst for that.

TopTexanFan16
12-26-2006, 01:33 PM
I was afraid this was going to happen.

Carr didn't even have a good game today, I can't tell you the number of bad passes he threw today. But, we have one game where the rest of the team played good and Carr doesn't make any turnovers and he is all of a sudden sufficient. What about the games when he fumbles the ball four times? What about the interceptions he throws into triple and quadruple coverage? -5 passing yards?

Come on guys.

Yes....bad passes, he was 16 for 23 and a touchdown. so if 7 of the imcompletions were bad passes then yes i'd agree.....but unfortunatley your wrong. i can remember him throwing the ball away like hes supposed to. he threw it behind vonta but vonta made a hell of a catch so im not goin to consider that, thats what good teams do, pick up whoevers slack. i really dont remember any other bad throws please refresh my memory. i also remember a throw into very tigh coverage but it shoulda been caught anyways and everyone started booing. it shows you how many fair weather fans there are. if the reciever caught the ball is woulda been hailed as a beautiful throw. i now im goin on a rant but come on yourself give carr a break just admit he had a good game.

SESupergenius
12-26-2006, 01:40 PM
eh, you weren't on my radar....

If they lose to the Browns and their back up QB all this feel good stuff from the Colts game is toilet water.

Come on now, we just won one of the greatest wins in Texans history, don't rain on the parade with a "let's see what happens when the Browns stomp on us." This win negates the loss to the Titans, and we are only 1 win away from my expectations going into the season of 6 wins and 10 loses. I've been very impressed with this team of late and maybe the Browns game gives us some more hope. don't be all doom and gloom. And Happy new Year!

ArlingtonTexan
12-26-2006, 02:32 PM
Come on now, we just won one of the greatest wins in Texans history, don't rain on the parade with a "let's see what happens when the Browns stomp on us." This win negates the loss to the Titans, and we are only 1 win away from my expectations going into the season of 6 wins and 10 loses. I've been very impressed with this team of late and maybe the Browns game gives us some more hope. don't be all doom and gloom. And Happy new Year!

The texans played one their worst games immediately followed by one of their best games. Both of these came against playoff teams. The truth of what the Texans are is some version of gray in between the two. How the Texans play against the Browns, a game the Texans will be favored in, goes along into having a realistic view of what the Texans are at the close of 2006.

TexansFanatic
12-26-2006, 03:02 PM
I thought I heard somewhere that David Carr has had only three games in his career which were unblemished by either a fumble, an interception, or a sack. The game against the Colts was one of the three.

Can anyone confirm?

Texan_Bill
12-26-2006, 03:14 PM
Yes.. It was in the chron the other day...Actually it was 4 games started.
3 wins and 1 loss in games that Carr started with no interceptions, turnovers or sacks...

In the one loss to San Francisco, he only played the first half... I will try to find a link...

Double Barrel
12-26-2006, 03:16 PM
I thought I heard somewhere that David Carr has had only three games in his career which were unblemished by either a fumble, an interception, or a sack. The game against the Colts was one of the three.

Can anyone confirm?

I heard that in the post-game show, too. Not a very confidence-inducing stat, to say the least.

SESupergenius
12-26-2006, 04:03 PM
I heard that in the post-game show, too. Not a very confidence-inducing stat, to say the least.

How does that rank amongst his peers? Stats are no good unless you can compare them to something.

Kaiser Toro
12-26-2006, 04:11 PM
How does that rank amongst his peers? Stats are no good unless you can compare them to something.

Good question. I just did a quick view of this past week's games and only Jason Campbell and Peyton Manning "achieved the feat."

Double Barrel
12-26-2006, 04:16 PM
Good question. I just did a quick view of this past week's games and only Jason Campbell and Peyton Manning "achieved the feat."

Then question then, is how many games does Manning having in his career witout a sack/int/fumble? I'd venture to say a lot, but I'm just guessing.

Kaiser Toro
12-26-2006, 04:17 PM
Then question then, is how many games does Manning having in his career witout a sack/int/fumble? I'd venture to say a lot, but I'm just guessing.

I would think so, the guy has such a quick release it negates the propensity to mount sacks and fumbles.

SESupergenius
12-26-2006, 04:21 PM
Then question then, is how many games does Manning having in his career witout a sack/int/fumble? I'd venture to say a lot, but I'm just guessing.

I'm sure Manning does have a lot of games like that, but Carr does not equal Manning. Where does Carr rank and who does he compare to?

ArlingtonTexan
12-26-2006, 04:23 PM
How does that rank amongst his peers? Stats are no good unless you can compare them to something.

Honestly, I doubt many Qbs go more than a couple of games a year without a sack, int or fumble. I think the stat about Carr and the Texans record falls into that category of sounds interesting, but once you really poke at it not too much substance beneath the surface.

Personally, I think it says more about the QB who handles pressure and overcomes mistakes than Qbs playing well when everything is going nearly perfect around them.

Vinny
12-26-2006, 04:24 PM
Honestly, I doubt many Qbs go more than a couple of games a year without a sack, int or fumble. I think the stat about Carr and the Texans record falls into that category of sounds interesting, but once you really poke at it not too much substance beneath the surface.

Personally, I think it says more about the QB who handles pressure and overcomes mistakes than Qbs playing well when everything is going nearly perfect around them.Good post....I think sacks are team stats anyway. To just dump them on the QB is silly...even if he did induce many of them on his own in the past.

TexansFanatic
12-26-2006, 05:21 PM
Honestly, I doubt many Qbs go more than a couple of games a year without a sack, int or fumble. I think the stat about Carr and the Texans record falls into that category of sounds interesting, but once you really poke at it not too much substance beneath the surface.

Personally, I think it says more about the QB who handles pressure and overcomes mistakes than Qbs playing well when everything is going nearly perfect around them.

Interestingly enough, Peyton Manning had statistically a far superior day to Carr, also achieving the hat trick of zero sacks, zero fumbles, and zero picks, with a 135 rating and yet lost....

SESupergenius
12-26-2006, 06:57 PM
. To just dump them on the QB is silly...even if he did induce many of them on his own in the past.
AHHHH see how you are! You little twister. Your agenda is clearly visible.

Vinny
12-26-2006, 07:07 PM
My agenda also has the Kung Fu grip. I can even break down your avatar in a few short keystrokes. If you look at your avatar you can see the left shoulder upward hitch that Carr has when he throws an intermediate to deep pass. It gives the defenders playing zone the step on his passes.

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 11:40 AM
My agenda also has the Kung Fu grip. I can even break down your avatar in a few short keystrokes. If you look at your avatar you can see the left shoulder upward hitch that Carr has when he throws an intermediate to deep pass. It gives the defenders playing zone the step on his passes.

That is just silly.

i could probably point out several QB's with this so called "hitch".
here, take a look at manning, notice the telegraphing of the deep through by both the "hitch" and the gritting of the teeth. When the DB sees the teeth, it's a dead give away.

http://www.nflxl.com/cuts/peytonmanning.png
http://www.nflxl.com/cuts/peytonmanning.png

cseafous
12-27-2006, 04:52 PM
I think we are forgetting that the Texans are not the only team in this boat. Chicago also has an erratic QB. Even Rivers has been spotty for the Chargers lately. The difference between those teams and our team has been a consistant running game that keeps the defense honest and a line that keeps the QB up right. There are 11 people out there at any one time and they are all responsible for every snap. If our offense could do two things we would be 10 and 5 instead of 5 and 10. The first is no busted plays (offsides, missed blocks, fumbles). The second is allow no penetration (that does not even include pushing them back).

Vinny
12-27-2006, 04:56 PM
That is just silly.

i could probably point out several QB's with this so called "hitch".
here, take a look at manning, notice the telegraphing of the deep through by both the "hitch" and the gritting of the teeth. When the DB sees the teeth, it's a dead give away.
well, I was being silly since you were calling me out...hence the "kung fu grip" comment. Get a massage or some therapy. relax a little...being that uptight can't be good.

HJam72
12-27-2006, 05:04 PM
That is just silly.

i could probably point out several QB's with this so called "hitch".
here, take a look at manning, notice the telegraphing of the deep through by both the "hitch" and the gritting of the teeth. When the DB sees the teeth, it's a dead give away.

http://www.nflxl.com/cuts/peytonmanning.png
http://www.nflxl.com/cuts/peytonmanning.png

Notice how Peyton is also pointing his left arm to the right and you know he's gonna throw to the the wide-out on that right side-line. He's also squinting just a little more with one eye than with the other and I bet that reverses when he throws to the other side. I bet he's gonna throw it to the 18 yard line too! I mean that's just a dead give away.

On the other hand, David looks like he's going to hit himself in the back of the head with the ball. :)

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 05:06 PM
well, I was being silly since you were calling me out...hence the "kung fu grip" comment. Get a massage or some therapy. relax a little...being that uptight can't be good.

I am being funny too, hence the gritting the teeth thing ( i doubt a back can even see his teeth gritting). I'm not uptight, I was happy the Texans won on Sunday. I have a feeling that some so-called fans however wished Carr was not a part of that win.

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2006, 05:07 PM
On the other hand, David looks like he's going to hit himself in the back of the head with the ball. :)

I got another picture if you need proof. :)

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2006, 05:08 PM
I have a feeling that some so-called fans however wished Carr was not a part of that win.

There are just not that many as you think. Carr has been a topic for a long time and the conversations kind of meld into one another, but I have only seen maybe a few that have promoted that.

Vinny
12-27-2006, 05:11 PM
I am being funny too, hence the gritting the teeth thing ( i doubt a back can even see his teeth gritting). I'm not uptight, I was happy the Texans won on Sunday. I have a feeling that some so-called fans however wished Carr was not a part of that win.Every NFL team that doesn't get good QB play has a forum full of people wanting change....it's not unique to us.

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 05:19 PM
Every NFL team that doesn't get good QB play has a forum full of people wanting change....it's not unique to us.
I think it is people wanting change in areas of concern. Until recently our running game has been nil and our defense has routinely been at the bottom of the league. Some people place QB as the most important position on the team. I don't. I think defense, running game and QB are the most important, in that order. I'm sure there are tons of fans that agree.

Vinny
12-27-2006, 05:21 PM
I think it is people wanting change in areas of concern. Until recently our running game has been nil and our defense has routinely been at the bottom of the league. Some people place QB as the most important position on the team. I don't. I think defense, running game and QB are the most important, in that order. I'm sure there are tons of fans that agree.I've run a few NFL forums and most fans consider the QB the most important position. I don't see nearly the emotional outbust over bad FS play or bad Guard play...just making an observation.

Double Barrel
12-27-2006, 05:23 PM
Man, I remember the venom that Moon used to endure back in the day. I always liked the guy, and never understood the hatred. But yeah, QBs take more than their fair share of criticism, and on the flip side, get too much of the glory when the team wins.

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 05:40 PM
Well I play Madden and every time I pick a QB in the 1st round my team does squat.

Not just an observation....just fact.
















(oh, it's a joke by the way people)