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View Full Version : Reconsidering the OL depth chart


dalemurphy
12-25-2006, 12:53 AM
First let me say that I'm a big fan of the new coaching staff. With that said, I think they made two vital errors that kept this team from having an 8 win season.

1. This one has been talked about on thes boards so I won't belabor it. We should have kept Seth Wand.

2. This is the big mistake in my mind. I think that you can attribute 2-4 losses this year on the play of our backup OTs. Furthermore, even before the Spencer injury in week 2, the coaches had a three-man rotation at guard: Weary, Mckinney, and Pitts. I think the biggest mistake of the year for this staff was not moving Pitts to LT after the Spencer injury... Essentially, we would have still had two starters at guard... in addition, we'd have had a very capable LT. Then, later in the season, after the Weigert injury, a fresh and healthy Salaam could've stepped in at RT. I really believe this season would've turned out radically different.

yourfavoritetexan42
12-25-2006, 01:04 AM
Injuries cannot be prevented...and what has happend, happend.

What I would like to see next year:

Either us draft a franchise left tackle or bring someone in ( Roman Obden, Leonard Davis). And then Move Spencer to right tackle to battle out with winston, if he is ready, and beats winston out, put winston at that right tackle spot and have him battle it out with weary. I want to see McKinney back at Center and let him and Flanagan battle it out, while Pitts remains at left guard. Competition brings the best out in players... and I would love to see a lot going into 2007 with the Texans.

Goldeagle
12-25-2006, 09:16 AM
You can start Flannigan and then when he gets injured McKinney can step in.

I say sign Steinbach or Derrick Dockery for a Guard position.

its starting to get jumbled by everything I read

LT: Spencer, Free Agent, Draft
LG: Pitts
C: Flannigan, MicKinney, Hodgen
RG: Weary, McKinney, Winston, Spencer
RT: Winston, Draft, Spencer

johndoe
12-25-2006, 09:47 AM
LT- draft
LG- pitts
C- weary
RG- winston
RT- spencer

threetoedpete
12-25-2006, 10:03 AM
Well it is Christmass for me because at least people are talking about the sore spot. It's easy to fall in love with guys. But, I dissagree with your assesment on the oline. In our division we have to encounter six times a year
defensive lines which feature Albert Hanyesworth, Henderson & Stroud, and you can bet Tony Dungy will be up grading this off season. Coming in here yesterday without their two lions at Saftey and /simons and Monte Reager was a hugh factor for the upset win yesterday.

They are still looking for an anchor on the o-line. We saw with DC yesterday
what could have been with this franchise with Boselli IF he'd of recovered and been at 90%. DC's pergression would not have been stunted. I have no desire to throw the guy to the wolves again in '07. What ever the Texans do with him...my christamss wish with DC is that NOW, not next year...they fish or cut bait on the guy. That means if they're going to skip fixing the o-line one more time this year, they need to turn the guy loose. the guy has Played Judas goat long enough for the franchise. Roll away the stone Uncle Bob, let the guy go.


Last I looked...Wand and Jopru were playing specail teams with somebody else. Niether one is capable of beating out anyone for PT. I don't know if you're his brother in law or what, but we saw all we were going to see out of Wand & Beanie. You can keep posting it if you want....Let us know the next time you see signs of nfl life out of either. We'll be waiting with baited breath.

South Texan
12-25-2006, 10:47 AM
We need more proven horses to give us more options on the O-Line. I understand taking Boselli, he was a huge talent and seemed worth the gamble that he would play again. But that was year 1.

So I am hoping the front office is going to be pessimistic and assume that Spencer may not be back, and that we will have injuries and go for some serious depth on the Line.

How they do this is going to be complicated, using first round picks to trade for vets (preferably in their third or fourth year) or whatever, but then that is why Rick Smith is getting the big bucks.

dat_boy_yec
12-25-2006, 10:54 AM
Yesterday's line-up of McKinney, Weary and Pitts performed very well. I would think interior linemen wouldn't get any consideration before the 4th-5th rd. Spencer is already lightly running and is at 325. Draft a tackle in the third that can be a solid swing tackle or bring in a solid swing tackle through FA. However don't spend all that money on somebody like Davis who might not even beat out Spencer. You're basically asking them to do another Todd Wade, remember that. Our line did well yesterday and considering all the injuries has actually jelled pretty well. Next yr. with better depth I see no reason why our line can't be a strength.

the wonger need food
12-25-2006, 11:02 AM
Wand is a great left tackle, that's why he is starting for.... uh... wait for it... nobody. He's behind Michael Roos on Tennessee's depth chart.

Wand was nothing more than a project and is barely in the NFL. If anyone thinks that having this guy on the roster would mean 2-3 more wins, well, maybe they've had too much egg nog.

Runner
12-25-2006, 11:27 AM
Last I looked...Wand and Jopru were playing specail teams with somebody else. Niether one is capable of beating out anyone for PT. I don't know if you're his brother in law or what, but we saw all we were going to see out of Wand & Beanie. You can keep posting it if you want....Let us know the next time you see signs of nfl life out of either. We'll be waiting with baited breath.

I agree Wand wouldn't have made 2-3 win difference unless the rest of the line stepped up all year too, but I don't think Salaam, Winston. Wiegert, or even Spencer would be starting if they joined the Titans halfway through the season as a back-up either. Most of them wouldn't start if they were there in training camp for that matter. Just because Wand is a back-up in Tennessee doesn't mean he's worse than Salaam and Winston because they are starters. The Texans wanted him back when Wiegert went down; maybe the coaches thought the same thing after looking at what they were left with.

Our guys are starting for a poor team, and they all got it together for their first very good outing of the year. There might be signs of life, but yesterday is still the exception rather than the rule. We still need to address the o-line in the off-season.

I don't know why I'm discussing this anymore anyway - Wand is better off where he is. He's probably talking about play-off scenarios with his buddies while our players are wondering who we'll draft next. He's 6-0 this year with a shot at the playoffs and sticking on a good team next season.

I wonder how many of our lineman would trade spots with him.

cdastros
12-25-2006, 11:52 AM
To me, moving Chester Pitts back to guard was the biggest mistake of this franchise. It is almost like we keep looking for that super model girlfriend when we have the girl next door right in front of our face. Pitts may not be an all-pro left tackle, but he was an average to above average left tackle that almost NEVER GETS HURT. His health is a big reason why I would move him back to left tackle and fill in the rest of the line during draft and free agency.

Draft:
1. Adrian Peterson or Marshan Lynch
2. OG mabye Ben Grubbs
3. OC mabye Ryan Kalil

Line in 2007
LT - Pitts/Salaam - Salaam will not even see the field
LG - Ben Grubbs/ Mckinney
C - Flanagan/ Kalil - Flanagan will teach Kalil to take over the job
RG - Weary/ Mckinney
RT - Spencer/ Winston

threetoedpete
12-25-2006, 12:04 PM
To me, moving Chester Pitts back to guard was the biggest mistake of this franchise. It is almost like we keep looking for that super model girlfriend when we have the girl next door right in front of our face. Pitts may not be an all-pro left tackle, but he was an average to above average left tackle that almost NEVER GETS HURT. His health is a big reason why I would move him back to left tackle and fill in the rest of the line during draft and free agency.

Draft:
1. Adrian Peterson or Marshan Lynch
2. OG mabye Ben Grubbs
3. OC mabye Ryan Kalil

Line in 2007
LT - Pitts/Salaam - Salaam will not even see the field
LG - Ben Grubbs/ Mckinney
C - Flanagan/ Kalil - Flanagan will teach Kalil to take over the job
RG - Weary/ Mckinney
RT - Spencer/ Winston


We've had this discusion befor. Pitts is the left gaurd on this team. He was drafted as a left gaurd. And judging by Coach Kubiacks Quote entering camp...he's staying at gaurd. I thought the pancake on the goal line with Pitts pulling to the right was a pretty fair block myself. If we leave the guy alone, he has the chance at becoming an All Pro at left gaurd. You want a fair line and a 9-7 win season ? Give up the pretties in the first round one year and get the o-line fixed. If the o-line is good enough ,it doesn't matter a whole lot that you don't have super man behind the center. I think Kubiak proved that one in spades yeaterday.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-25-2006, 12:06 PM
Steinbach - Pitts - Weary - Winston - Spencer

Zac
12-25-2006, 12:10 PM
Good Offensive Line depth. That is the Key.

LT - 1 st Round Pick / Spencer
LG - Pitt / Saalam
C - Flannigan / Hodgen
RG - Wery / McKinney
LT - Wiggert / Winston

The toughest thing is that based on Kubiac's history. Spencer might have been the steal of the Draft. He took over the Left Tackel position in Training Camp and Pre season. Too bad he got hurt:crutch:

Even Demeco Ryans took a bit longer to entrench himself as the Starting MLB.

threetoedpete
12-25-2006, 12:12 PM
First let me say that I'm a big fan of the new coaching staff. With that said, I think they made two vital errors that kept this team from having an 8 win season.

1. This one has been talked about on thes boards so I won't belabor it. We should have kept Seth Wand.

2. This is the big mistake in my mind. I think that you can attribute 2-4 losses this year on the play of our backup OTs. Furthermore, even before the Spencer injury in week 2, the coaches had a three-man rotation at guard: Weary, Mckinney, and Pitts. I think the biggest mistake of the year for this staff was not moving Pitts to LT after the Spencer injury... Essentially, we would have still had two starters at guard... in addition, we'd have had a very capable LT. Then, later in the season, after the Weigert injury, a fresh and healthy Salaam could've stepped in at RT. I really believe this season would've turned out radically different.

The only error this organisation made Einstien is that no one figgured out a way to strap up Dayne's head gear so he can keep his fricken head up.And his eyes open when he runs. When Charles Spencer went down...the season was in the tolliet. Pitt's is the left gaurd. And thanks Murphy for bring this up again for the tenth time.
I ain't looking up the Quote out of camp...Kubiak says he's staying put. Period. I get it . Why can't you ?

cdastros
12-25-2006, 12:26 PM
We've had this discusion befor. Pitts is the left gaurd on this team. He was drafted as a left gaurd. And judging by Coach Kubiacks Quote entering camp...he's staying at gaurd. I thought the pancake on the goal line with Pitts pulling to the right was a pretty fair block myself. If we leave the guy alone, he has the chance at becoming an All Pro at left gaurd. You want a fair line and a 9-7 win season ? Give up the pretties in the first round one year and get the o-line fixed. If the o-line is good enough ,it doesn't matter a whole lot that you don't have super man behind the center. I think Kubiak proved that one in spades yeaterday.

Coach Kubiack has made some mistakes this year. Playing Hodgen over McKinney is one and moving Pitts was another one (Plus many more that donít belong in this thread). Plus, the guard position is a little easier to find than Left Tackle. All I am saying is this organization doesn't have to waist picks on a position that they can solidify tomorrow. Hell, you can even wait to the 3rd and 4th rounds to get a guard to fill the holes that moving Pitts would create.

Runner
12-25-2006, 01:01 PM
The only error this organisation made Einstien is that no one figgured out a way to strap up Dayne's head gear so he can keep his fricken head up.And his eyes open when he runs.

It also would have helped if Spencer had not been pushed back three yards into the backfield on a running play.

West Texas Texan
12-25-2006, 05:12 PM
Here are the plain facts:
Wand stunk. He deserved to be released. (By the way, he isn't the reason the Titans have gone 6-0)
Spencer was the 3rd best LT on the team. The other two are starting now at other positions. Spencer was just handed the position in training camp. He couldn't run block, which tells us why the run game stunk for the first couple of games.

In this league you have to be able to run and pass effectively. Establish the run, and the passing opens itself up.

The current line has been together now for 3 games and showing dramatic signs of improvement. Give credit where it is due.

skillz24
12-25-2006, 06:11 PM
Steinbach - Pitts - Weary - Winston - Spencer

Steinback won't sign with us b/c we can't offer him enough and still draft. if he did it would look more like Winston Steinbach Pitts Weary Weigert

Goldeagle
12-25-2006, 07:01 PM
Steinback won't sign with us b/c we can't offer him enough and still draft. if he did it would look more like Winston Steinbach Pitts Weary Weigert

What will Steinbach be wanting?

if not him what about Dockery?

LT: Spencer, draft
LG: Pitts
C: Flannigan, McKinney, Weary
RG: FA (Steinbach or Dockery), Weary, McKinney
RT: Winston, draft (Weigert is horrible)

Runner
12-25-2006, 09:35 PM
Here are the plain facts:



Thanks; the rest of us are just limited to opinions. :rolleyes:

painekiller
12-26-2006, 12:03 AM
Coach Kubiack has made some mistakes this year. Playing Hodgen over McKinney is one

That was not a mistake. He had to know. And the only real way to see was to play him. Now we know, OC needs to be upgraded. :pigfly:

kenneth24
12-26-2006, 10:22 AM
Pitts should remain at guard. When he wasn't called for holding or false starts he did a commendable job at LT but I seem to remember him going back to the huddle many of times with his hands up on his helmet after being called for a penalty. Leave him at guard where he can hide his hands better and is quick enough to do some trap blocking.

dalemurphy
12-26-2006, 11:05 AM
Pitts should remain at guard. When he wasn't called for holding or false starts he did a commendable job at LT but I seem to remember him going back to the huddle many of times with his hands up on his helmet after being called for a penalty. Leave him at guard where he can hide his hands better and is quick enough to do some trap blocking.

Yes, ideally he should be at guard. However, so should Winston. Not only that, ideally Salaam should be on the bench. That's the point. Certainly after Weigert went down, Pitts should've then moved to tackle.

threetoedpete
12-26-2006, 08:35 PM
It also would have helped if Spencer had not been pushed back three yards into the backfield on a running play.

On a draw Play ?

threetoedpete
12-26-2006, 08:38 PM
Yes, ideally he should be at guard. However, so should Winston. Not only that, ideally Salaam should be on the bench. That's the point. Certainly after Weigert went down, Pitts should've then moved to tackle.

No ! Pitts IS THE LEFT gaurd. period. He's not going to be moved again. I ain't saying that Kubiak said it. Let IT go !!! An no one made a mistake that is where he belongs. period. Want more depth at left tackle ? Go draft it in April.

Runner
12-26-2006, 09:04 PM
On a draw Play ?

He was slow off the snap and pushed back. It happens - his reaction to the snap was noticeably late in several plays in pre-season and it was on the play he got hurt.

I know several people on the board were making pro-bowl predictions for Spencer after the first pre-season game, but he wasn't quite perfect by game two of the season.

dalemurphy
12-26-2006, 09:32 PM
No ! Pitts IS THE LEFT gaurd. period. He's not going to be moved again. I ain't saying that Kubiak said it. Let IT go !!! An no one made a mistake that is where he belongs. period. Want more depth at left tackle ? Go draft it in April.



What does April 2007 have to do with October of 2006. Of course we need to draft more OT depth. Unfortunately, we were in the middle of the season without a time machine. At that point, sliding Pitts over to LT and inserting McKinney at LG with Salaam at RT, Weary at RG, and Flanagan at C made the most sense, IMO. When you lose your two top tackles it's no longer about what is ideal.

skillz24
12-26-2006, 10:38 PM
What will Steinbach be wanting?

if not him what about Dockery?

LT: Spencer, draft
LG: Pitts
C: Flannigan, McKinney, Weary
RG: FA (Steinbach or Dockery), Weary, McKinney
RT: Winston, draft (Weigert is horrible)

steinbach will be wanting 7.5 million a year. Dockery is awful...we need to draft players not sign free agents mind you we 14.3 million in cap room next year. We have dead money in T.Wade, G.Walker, R.Smith, and soon to be J.Babin, M.Flanagan, S.McKinney.

CowboysTexansFan
12-26-2006, 10:39 PM
Yesterday's line-up of McKinney, Weary and Pitts performed very well. I would think interior linemen wouldn't get any consideration before the 4th-5th rd. Spencer is already lightly running and is at 325. Draft a tackle in the third that can be a solid swing tackle or bring in a solid swing tackle through FA. However don't spend all that money on somebody like Davis who might not even beat out Spencer. You're basically asking them to do another Todd Wade, remember that. Our line did well yesterday and considering all the injuries has actually jelled pretty well. Next yr. with better depth I see no reason why our line can't be a strength.

If that's true, that's extremely encouraging. Not that I'm casting aspersions on your veracity, but how do you know that? Thanks in advance. :)

Crazyhorse
12-27-2006, 10:23 AM
First, Pitts is a guard and only a guard. He can make the best contribution at that spot for the team.
Second, I saw Spencer before the colts game and he was walking OK but I find it hard to believe he can run yet watching him move. Also I wouldn't rush it as he has another 3-4 month before he has to push it at all.
Third, I tire of all the arm chair Seth Wand supporters. He was not, is not, will not be the answer for the Texans or the Titans. We couldn't keep him at the price we were paying him and the Titians got him for the minimum but all he will ever be is a back up.
Fouth, get ready to see alot of Winston!!! He has owned the right side and with the exception of Oakland he has dominated the right side. The only reason we ran left against the Colts is that they were stunting the right side to slow it down and playing the left straight up and we took advantage of it. Since he has started our running game to the right side has improved continually. Right now Winston is the youngest , healthyest, and smartest tackle we have. He has gotten comfotable on the right side and hopefully with Spencer's return it will give us the youth to build around.

Texian
12-27-2006, 10:57 AM
LT- draft
LG- pitts
C- weary
RG- winston
RT- spencer

I think you have got it johndoe.

real
12-27-2006, 11:10 AM
He was slow off the snap and pushed back. It happens - his reaction to the snap was noticeably late in several plays in pre-season and it was on the play he got hurt.


I really don't know about the play he got hurt on, but I did notice he was late off the ball at times during the pre-season...

edo783
12-27-2006, 11:46 AM
I really don't know about the play he got hurt on, but I did notice he was late off the ball at times during the pre-season...

On the play he was hurt on, he was pushed back into the running lane. Just one of those freak deals.

jdog
12-27-2006, 11:55 AM
Phil Simms quote from his latest NFL.com "analysis":

"The one thing that jumped out at me while watching Pittsburgh beat Seattle in Super Bowl XL was that it was clear these were the two best offensive lines in football. So while we always focus on the franchise quarterbacks and the skill players, and we debate whether a team possesses a "championship caliber" defense, maybe it's time to recognize the offensive line as perhaps the most important unit for a football team. "

What do you all think of Doug Datish of Ohio State? He can supposedly play all along the offensive line, but is expected to be a center.

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 12:01 PM
Phil Simms quote from his latest NFL.com "analysis":

"The one thing that jumped out at me while watching Pittsburgh beat Seattle in Super Bowl XL was that it was clear these were the two best offensive lines in football. So while we always focus on the franchise quarterbacks and the skill players, and we debate whether a team possesses a "championship caliber" defense, maybe it's time to recognize the offensive line as perhaps the most important unit for a football team. "

What do you all think of Doug Datish of Ohio State? He can supposedly play all along the offensive line, but is expected to be a center.
I love Phil Simms and his commenting, he always seems to be spot on. That is what I had invisioned the Texans being from the start, a pound them type of football team. A team that demanded respect in the run. We should draft a OL in the 1st round because we never have.

Runner
12-27-2006, 03:20 PM
Third, I tire of all the arm chair Seth Wand supporters. He was not, is not, will not be the answer for the Texans or the Titans. We couldn't keep him at the price we were paying him and the Titians got him for the minimum but all he will ever be is a back up.


Give us a break - we aren't complaining about the two Midland, Texas posters who are all Winston, all the time. :)

It is ironic to have Winston backers bash Wand anyway. Those players have some remarkable similarities (according to some of their peers, not me); we fans can only hope that the Texans continue to develop Winston rather than throw him away because he had a bad game against the Raiders.

It is a good thing for Winston that Wand didn't accept the Texans offer after Wiegert went down anyway. You really would have been livid with an LT/RT combination of Wand/Salaam.

justmy2cents
01-02-2007, 12:54 PM
Phil Simms quote from his latest NFL.com "analysis":

"The one thing that jumped out at me while watching Pittsburgh beat Seattle in Super Bowl XL was that it was clear these were the two best offensive lines in football. So while we always focus on the franchise quarterbacks and the skill players, and we debate whether a team possesses a "championship caliber" defense, maybe it's time to recognize the offensive line as perhaps the most important unit for a football team. "

What do you all think of Doug Datish of Ohio State? He can supposedly play all along the offensive line, but is expected to be a center.





Phil knows from whence he speaks! The offensive line IS the most important area of the team. If they are performing well, they 1. consistently open holes large enough to make mediocre running backs look great 2. give backup quarterbacks time to set up, scan the field, and find their open targets 3. keep the offense on the field while eating up the clock, keeping other team's offense off of the field, and keeping opposing team's defense on the field - tiring and becoming less effective.
OLT is by far the most important. We tried with Boselli, but he was damaged goods. We tried with Wand and Winston ..... but the great ones go early in Round 1. I wanted Ferguson last year. I want Joe Thomas this year. I will even admit that I wanted Robert Gallery the year before.
By the way, I think center is the second most important line position, and I agree with interest in Doug Datish. I believe the Oilers went to the playoffs 13 out of 14 years ..... due in no small part to guys like: Munchak, Mathews, Salem, Steinkuhler, and Doug Dawson.

Scooter
01-02-2007, 01:51 PM
Chester pitts stays at guard. stop moving him around and keep some consistancy. the false starts and holdings have almost disappeared and he'll have "gelled" with flanagan beside him.

i like Spencer at left tackle. he has work to do in the run game but i liked his pass blocking. yes he was slow off the snap on occasion but until we get more time to evaluate him on the field, i'm waving the "HE WAS A ROOKIE" banner. his hands were off the charts incredible and i liked his footwork ... coaching and experience are going to fix these minor flaws very quickly. setting up a half-step sooner and knowing the cadence are easy fixes.

this is a big one IMO. we now have our "swing tackle" in eric winston. next year winston will take over as the backup OT for both sides which kubiak is so insistant upon and will do a much better job than salaam. hopefully we dont lose a tackle by game 2 next year and winston can keep working before being called on.

flanagan is going to start at center. i know he struggled and that's why we need to begin grooming his replacement in order to take over at some point next season. i'd like to see draft pick used in the 3-6 range here. until that replacement is ready, i'm content with flanagan.

we have a strong backup in weary and he can start if we're unable to find a suitable upgrade (which would mean keeping mckinney, something i'm not comfortable with). this position isnt as big of a need as it has been though. i like weary as a backup and would like to see him get reps at center so that he can backup more than one position. i'd like a free agent upgrade here as a starter.

we NEED a right tackle. i'm looking for someone to be taken somewhere in the 2-4 rounds to push weigert off of the roster. this is our most critical need on the line IMO. if spencer becomes the bookend that i think he will, we just need this one piece to finally become a legitimate unit.

spencer - winston
pitts
flanagan - draft - weary
FA - weary
draft - winston

3 pieces acquired during the offseason for one unit might seem like a lot, but considering that we dont need a wide receiver or runningback IMO and carr's probably going to be back next year with sage as backup ... we can focus almost exclusively on the line on offense.

elbison
01-02-2007, 01:56 PM
I think you have got it johndoe.

Yeah, Johndoe's looks the best to me.

johndoe
01-02-2007, 04:08 PM
its kinda early to tell but i dont think were gonna go OT in the first 2 rounds...so it may end up being spencer at LT again next year. i would of liked to see weary take some snaps at C this year but oh well. i think winston has done an alright job when hes played RT this year, but IMO me could be a pretty good player at guard. pitts is our best offensive lineman and should be a lock for next year...