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Goldeagle
12-24-2006, 02:43 PM
He gets blamed for losses, he gets the Credit for the WINS!

Seriously Ron Dayne Healthy is the MAN! Do we really need AP? We need an O-line and a safety (Nate Clements in Free agency) before a RB!

Ryan
12-24-2006, 02:45 PM
we need a rb but maybe not ap

TexansLucky13
12-24-2006, 02:46 PM
I agree with everything you just said. Go Texans!

Napa Auto Parts
12-24-2006, 02:47 PM
Carr look good hopefully he can pull it off a couple more times so we can get good value for him in the offseason:hides:

johndoe
12-24-2006, 02:48 PM
ron dayne and the o-line beat the colts... carr was average at best.

Wolf
12-24-2006, 02:49 PM
Carr look good hopefully he can pull it off a couple more times so we can get good value for him in the offseason:hides:

couple of more times? we only have one game left

threetoedpete
12-24-2006, 02:49 PM
we need a rb but maybe not ap

Blah, Blah Blah...it ain't the running backs. Never has been the running backs. They need an o-line tallent upgrade. Always have.

TexansFanatic
12-24-2006, 02:49 PM
Carr threw a beatiful 17 yard strike---down the middle---to Andre on the final drive. It was exquisite in its rarity.

Wolf
12-24-2006, 02:50 PM
ron dayne and the o-line beat the colts... carr was average at best.

this is what gets me, when Carr looked good and we lost.. it is about the "W" when he looked average and we win.. it still wasn't good enough


make up your minds..

Napa Auto Parts
12-24-2006, 02:50 PM
couple of more times? we only have one game left

im counting carr making it to the pro-bowl later on in the week:pigfly:

MrMeToo
12-24-2006, 02:52 PM
ron dayne and the o-line beat the colts... carr was average at best.

Agreed.I'm still happy we beat the Colts though...

sleepwalker
12-24-2006, 02:53 PM
Carr wins......no turnovers.

johndoe
12-24-2006, 02:54 PM
maybe im being unfair, but i just dont like the guy... had my sapport for 5 years and lost it... go texans:marionaner:

Texas_Thrill
12-24-2006, 02:54 PM
this is what gets me, when Carr looked good and we lost.. it is about the "W" when he looked average and we win.. it still wasn't good enough


make up your minds..

b/c it wasn't like carr was throwing the ball all over the place like manning by any stretch. he managed the team and plays he was asked to make well.

it was obvious that dayne was the player of the game though.

threetoedpete
12-24-2006, 02:55 PM
im counting carr making it to the pro-bowl later on in the week:pigfly:

Well what I saw today is the guy we drafted. Funny how the extra time elevated DC's game. What they needed for five years and been ignored an o-line upgrade. Might of been shear luck all of those passes hitting recievers between the numbers. What ya think ?

CyberTexan
12-24-2006, 02:56 PM
Yes Most deffinately we need a RB Dayne is old he wont last more than another season or two so we need someone to step in , I myself like Adrian Peterson but after seeing the way Dayne handles defenses I think Michael Bush would be the better choice sense hes big like Dayne

Goldeagle
12-24-2006, 02:57 PM
this is what gets me, when Carr looked good and we lost.. it is about the "W" when he looked average and we win.. it still wasn't good enough


make up your minds..


Yeah tha tis why I made the post. To some people Carr has to go 30 for 30 350 yarrds and 3 Tds for him to have a "good" game.

Texans34Life
12-24-2006, 02:57 PM
Let Carr finish out good so we can trade his sorry butt in the offseason.

Wolf
12-24-2006, 02:57 PM
b/c it wasn't like carr was throwing the ball all over the place like manning by any stretch. he managed the team and plays he was asked to make well.

it was obvious that dayne was the player of the game though.

manning was playing pitch and catch with his receivers

Xetuoh1836
12-24-2006, 02:57 PM
Sometimes, I don't get you folks!!?? The Houston Texans won this game like the Houston Texans lost the others! Savor the victory and the first win over the "mighty" Colts in 10 tries. Geeze y'all, if I was Carr, I'd ask for a one way ticket out of town cause win or lose, some still aren't satisfied with a "total" team effort!

For those who care....Great victory and there is a Santa Claus!:yahoo:

Spled
12-24-2006, 02:58 PM
Carr was better than average. They beat a great team today.

TexansFanatic
12-24-2006, 02:59 PM
Yes Most deffinately we need a RB Dayne is old he wont last more than another season or two so we need someone to step in , I myself like Adrian Peterson but after seeing the way Dayne handles defenses I think Michael Bush would be the better choice sense hes big like Dayne


Dayne will be 29 in March.

TexanFanInCC
12-24-2006, 03:00 PM
He gets blamed for losses, he gets the Credit for the WINS!

Seriously Ron Dayne Healthy is the MAN! Do we really need AP? We need an O-line and a safety (Nate Clements in Free agency) before a RB!

i wouldnt say carr won the game, but he did enough to help the TEAM win the game. that throw to AJ to put brown in FG range could have possibly salvaged his career in houston. i cant say enough about ron dayne...sure it was the colts defense, but still. he has been running with this kind of authority for the past 3-4 weeks. chris taylor also chipped in with some nice reps. running the ball like we did today, is drafting a rb really necessary, especially since we have alot of other needs to address? i mean, what im saying is that if we get games like this from our running game, then we might as well try to drastically improve other areas of this team. if it aint broke, why fix it?

TexanFanInCC
12-24-2006, 03:01 PM
carr definitely showed some guts on his lil designed run up the middle and on that pass to AJ to put brown in fg range.

Spled
12-24-2006, 03:03 PM
Dayne is a young 29 because he backed up Tiki his whole career. His body isn't worn down.

sleepwalker
12-24-2006, 03:03 PM
Carr just made sure he will be back next year....Oh I can't wait to hear people start complaining !!!

Merry Xmas

Scott747
12-24-2006, 03:03 PM
Yes Most deffinately we need a RB Dayne is old he wont last more than another season or two so we need someone to step in , I myself like Adrian Peterson but after seeing the way Dayne handles defenses I think Michael Bush would be the better choice sense hes big like Dayne

Wise thinking. Bush is under the radar because of his injury, and may slip enough to be a steal. Heck of a RB if he makes a full recovery....

Specnatz
12-24-2006, 03:05 PM
manning was playing pitch and catch with his receivers

Would that not be on the DB's not the QB.


This concept of a team game eludes some people.

Nawzer
12-24-2006, 03:05 PM
Congrats to DC and the Texans. Carr finally made some solid plays over the middle of the field. He took some shots but that's what you have to do to be a good qb in this league. He wasn't perfect but he was good enough. David's had a dissapointing season and certainly this win shouldn't blind the FO or the coaching staff over what he has done this whole season. But certainly I'm giving DC his props for today's performance. If nothing else his trade value just jumped up.

wwffan99tx
12-24-2006, 03:07 PM
b/c it wasn't like carr was throwing the ball all over the place like manning by any stretch. he managed the team and plays he was asked to make well.

it was obvious that dayne was the player of the game though.

Dayne had a great game but Vonta Leach is my player of the game!! He opens holes for Ron all day long. And he caught a pass at the end of the half and didn't fumble it like Cook would have. :)

threetoedpete
12-24-2006, 03:08 PM
Sometimes, I don't get you folks!!?? The Houston Texans won this game like the Houston Texans lost the others! Savor the victory and the first win over the "mighty" Colts in 10 tries. Geeze y'all, if I was Carr, I'd ask for a one way ticket out of town cause win or lose, some still aren't satisfied with a "total" team effort!

For those who care....Great victory and there is a Santa Claus!:yahoo:

Never under estimate the Vincent man-love...Keep Hope alive !!!
Agreed TY Santa, very timely indeed.

CyberTexan
12-24-2006, 03:10 PM
Dayne may be 29 but knocking on the 30 year old door , average retirement for RBs is 30 to 32 , Michael Bush is 6ft3 250 lbs he would be a great one to draft and learn for a year behind Dayne.

jbh1970
12-24-2006, 03:11 PM
Carr was not sacked with a make shift line.

Texans rushing yards: 191

Carr: 16-23 for 163 yards and a touchdown 0 sacks

Manning: 21-27 for 205 yards and 3 touchdowns 0 sacks

It makes the game easier with a running game and not on back all game!

Good going Texans!

Happy Holidays Everyone!

#Ocho
12-24-2006, 03:12 PM
i wouldnt say carr won the game, but...

Responses like this is why Carr needs to leave this team. Some fans' attitudes toward him are going to be slanted against him no matter what he does.

"Yeah, but..." :deadhorse

BEERnBBQ
12-24-2006, 03:15 PM
manning was playing pitch and catch with his receivers

yeah but they didn't get enough chances to pitch and catch. Texans ball control did them in.

Insideop
12-24-2006, 03:17 PM
i wouldnt say carr won the game, but he did enough to help the TEAM win the game. that throw to AJ to put brown in FG range could have possibly salvaged his career in houston. i cant say enough about ron dayne...sure it was the colts defense, but still. he has been running with this kind of authority for the past 3-4 weeks. chris taylor also chipped in with some nice reps. running the ball like we did today, is drafting a rb really necessary, especially since we have alot of other needs to address? i mean, what im saying is that if we get games like this from our running game, then we might as well try to drastically improve other areas of this team. if it aint broke, why fix it?


Does this mean you'll be changing your avitar? LOL!

Roughnecks
12-24-2006, 03:23 PM
There has been a lot of bashing these guys this year. This was a great win plain and simple lets not get petty and start saying DC did not win this game now it was RD no the oline and so on it was a great win they all played better than we all thought and yes all so lets enjoy this and not rag on the team this week lets all enjoy.

HJam72
12-24-2006, 03:24 PM
Dayne had a great game but Vonta Leach is my player of the game!! He opens holes for Ron all day long. And he caught a pass at the end of the half and didn't fumble it like Cook would have. :)

I don't know about player of the game, but Vonta does deserve a lot of credit. I don't want to see Cook again. He can't block well enough anyway.

ChrisG
12-24-2006, 04:08 PM
carr played okay, but he doesn't get credit for this win, Dayne was the reason we won...if they had stopped our run we would be looking at a different score

threetoedpete
12-24-2006, 04:13 PM
carr played okay, but he doesn't get credit for this win, Dayne was the reason we won...if they had stopped our run we would be looking at a different score

Mind boggeling. :aikido:

Wolf
12-24-2006, 04:14 PM
when does Carr get credit then? oh wait.. this is the Texans messageboard.. Carr gets all the losses and is the whipping boy.


being we can't whip him this week we find reasons not to praise.

all I know is Carr made some key throws today, he did what he had to do.. maybe not spectacular, but he made the throws that needed to be made

texan_fan_8
12-24-2006, 04:14 PM
Today David played like someone i would want on my team. If he did this all the time, then we would be in great shape. He wasn't crazy dancing all over the field. He managed the offense and he didn't give up interceptions, fumbles, or sacks, he threw down field and he spread around the recievers and looked to see who was open. All very new concepts so it would seem.

Now if i knew he would try like this every day and like he did in seasons 1 and 2, then i would welcome him. but today only servered to confuse the issue yet again. Playing like you don't give a rats behind, isn't an option and that's the way i feel he's been playing.

BTW, why did he say we don't know anything and no one knows what is going on in the front office. Any one have an idea what he was referecing in his pregame interview. Made me feel sorta stupid

threetoedpete
12-24-2006, 04:22 PM
Dayne may be 29 but knocking on the 30 year old door , average retirement for RBs is 30 to 32 , Michael Bush is 6ft3 250 lbs he would be a great one to draft and learn for a year behind Dayne.

I have no problem rolling the dice on the guy at the top of the second...IF 1. he doesn't ask for the medical reshirt. @. we're not talking about over paying for a wounded propect with a first round pick.

ChrisG
12-24-2006, 04:26 PM
when does Carr get credit then? oh wait.. this is the Texans messageboard.. Carr gets all the losses and is the whipping boy.


being we can't whip him this week we find reasons not to praise.

all I know is Carr made some key throws today, he did what he had to do.. maybe not spectacular, but he made the throws that needed to be made

he gets credit when he wins a game for us....when he throws the ball down field and gets TDs...when he makes the difference in the game, today he played like an average player who played not to mess up

threetoedpete
12-24-2006, 04:27 PM
when does Carr get credit then? oh wait.. this is the Texans messageboard.. Carr gets all the losses and is the whipping boy.


being we can't whip him this week we find reasons not to praise.

all I know is Carr made some key throws today, he did what he had to do.. maybe not spectacular, but he made the throws that needed to be made

Thank you rep coming your way. I figgued this is what it would be like. No illousions here. They've got the guy crucified and in the tomb. I don't know which way Kubiack is going to jump...What I DO know...there are a whole lot of people going to have some major league egg on their face if Kubes does what he said he was going to do.

Keep Hope Alive !!!

After three years of the belly acheing, I'm dancing today. Hope you don't mind....


Keep Hope Alive !!!!

HJam72
12-24-2006, 04:28 PM
I don't want to get all on the Carr bandwagon, but he did throw a TD pass today + the game winning pass to get us withing field goal range. There's no reason to be bashing Carr today people. At least give him 24 hrs. or something.

BattleRedToro
12-24-2006, 04:33 PM
maybe im being unfair, but i just dont like the guy...

Finally someone admits it. I knew that is what this anti-Carr crap was all about all along. I am specifically talking about the blind haters. They just don't like him and it doesn't matter what he does, just like the Vince Young man-crushers that espouse that he inspired his defenders to score 3 times in their win last weekend. Blind hatred and blind love. Oh, how I long for some objectivity.

BattleRedToro
12-24-2006, 04:42 PM
when he throws the ball down field and gets TDs...

He did both today. You were probably too busy in the bathroom with your pictures of Vince Young to notice.:tease: :banme

trublu
12-24-2006, 04:46 PM
he gets credit when he wins a game for us....when he throws the ball down field and gets TDs...when he makes the difference in the game, today he played like an average player who played not to mess up

When Tennessee beat the Colts everyone here and on all the networks was praising Vince Young, yet all he did was not lose the game. How is this any different for Carr.:hide:

BattleRedToro
12-24-2006, 04:47 PM
When Tennessee beat the Colts everyone here and on all the networks was praising Vince Young, yet all he did was not lose the game. How is this any different for Carr.:hide:

The difference is Carr is not Vince Young-The Reason for the Season.:stirpot:

Wolf
12-24-2006, 04:50 PM
because it is Carr.


kinda like when Sage ran the offense in the 4th quarter against the Jags.. threw 3 passes.. it was because of sage..

go figure that this might be a team sport

coachdent
12-24-2006, 04:51 PM
I don't know about player of the game, but Vonta does deserve a lot of credit. I don't want to see Cook again. He can't block well enough anyway.

My Man Vonta!!!!

Great win today for the franchise!
Great win for Kubes.
Great win for Carr.
Great win for the Texans!

Happy Holidays to all and to all a good night!:yes:

Titan "Tack" Fan
12-24-2006, 04:51 PM
great win

Hervoyel
12-24-2006, 04:52 PM
Yes Most deffinately we need a RB Dayne is old he wont last more than another season or two so we need someone to step in , I myself like Adrian Peterson but after seeing the way Dayne handles defenses I think Michael Bush would be the better choice sense hes big like Dayne


It isn't the years man, it's the miles. There aren't many on Dayne and never have been. I think it would be a mistake to look at Ron Dayne and say that he's only got another season or two left in him. For possibly the first time in his NFL career Ron Dayne fits the system he's in perfectly. Under Kubiak, in this offense Dayne is a difference maker.

He'd by my first priority to sign in the off-season. His performance the past four weeks (topped off by today) is the reason I'm officially dropping my "RB in the first round" idea. We can afford to wait on a franchise RB because we have one now. Upgrade the offensive line first or get a Safety, CB, or LB to go with DeMeco.

BattleRedToro
12-24-2006, 04:55 PM
Upgrade the offensive line first ...

Imagine that. I've been saying that for longer than I've been on this Message Board.

TexanLen
12-24-2006, 05:08 PM
When Tennessee beat the Colts everyone here and on all the networks was praising Vince Young, yet all he did was not lose the game. How is this any different for Carr.:hide:

I think it's the 0-9 vs. the colts before todays win compared to VY winning against them in his rookie year.

It was a great win. This was a TEAM win. Carr wasn't spectacukar, but he did what he needed to to win. He actually made plays. I think the game was well coached.

tsip
12-24-2006, 05:20 PM
this is what gets me, when Carr looked good and we lost.. it is about the "W" when he looked average and we win.. it still wasn't good enough


make up your minds..


...just me, but I think exaggeration has something to do with it---Carr plays a decent game and all of a sudden he's an all-pro. If he plays a bad game, it's everybody Else's fault...

Too, 99% of the posters that do not believe David is the answer would actually love for Carr to turn his career around and be the player he was drafted for and gets paid for...we just want to win---Carr helps gets us wins, we'll shut up...will you all stop making excuses for him?

yourfavoritetexan42
12-24-2006, 05:21 PM
I don't want carr to leave. He is our man, and I think it will feel so much better when we get there, and we got there riding carr. This win meant more than any other win to carr, I guarantee that.

It hit me how much we all want to see him suceed when I was watching the game today and my little brother who is 8 was wearing his carr jersey and is a HUGE carr fan, was sad because he thought these next two weeks would be his last weeks to see carr play for the texans... Even though he has had his lows... he did start this season leading the NFL, and that was when that o line was healthy. Thats why I truely think, if our o line is healthy, and if we add maybe more depth or another awesome starter to that line, carr really could be the real deal... We just need to give him a chance.


And how about Mario Williams coming out today? Stripped fumble then he had a huge hit on Addai and caught up to Harrison and drug him down! Wow... if someone had told you that he would be doing all that against the colts I definately would have taken him #1 overall.


This win highlighted our season to me and it shows that there is not only hope, but a bright future for 07.

HomeBred_Texan
12-24-2006, 05:26 PM
Yeah tha tis why I made the post. To some people Carr has to go 30 for 30 350 yarrds and 3 Tds for him to have a "good" game.

No, some would actually say he should have went 31 for 31...

He get's no respect from so many... But funny how well he does when the running game clicks. All we need is a RB that can make plays and Carr will be fine. If not, then we can draft a QB in the future. It is not time to give up on him yet. I know, this was only 1 game, but it proves my point...

Please no negative reps for supporting Carr... I just think that when D's don't sit back and key on him like they have been, he can do just fine. Today Dayne made them respect a running game, which we have not seen in a couple of years. The results, a W...

Just my 2 cents worth...

Wolf
12-24-2006, 05:35 PM
...just me, but I think exaggeration has something to do with it---Carr plays a decent game and all of a sudden he's an all-pro. If he plays a bad game, it's everybody Else's fault...

Too, 99% of the posters that do not believe David is the answer would actually love for Carr to turn his career around and be the player he was drafted for and gets paid for...we just want to win---Carr helps gets us wins, we'll shut up...will you all stop making excuses for him?

I don't know about all-pro but when we lose he usually is included in the all-suck catagory

problem is what is the definition of "help us win".. he helped us win today , he completed some key 3rd down passes.. may not have been impressive but he didn't hurt the team

funny, we lose and Carr's completions are good, it is because he didn't have a TD pass, he has a rough game with a Td pass, it is because of someone else.. give it a rest haters

Carr is human and far from the worst Qb in the league and definitely not the best.. some of y'all have a hard time giving credit were credit is due.

I feel that if Sage was in the game ...y'all would be praising him for not losing it for the Texans

JDizzle
12-24-2006, 05:41 PM
Carr played a pretty good game and didn't melt down like many of us expected. I don't think Kubiak wanted Carr hanging back in the pocket much due to our protection problems and his tendency to make mistakes under pressure, so he stuck with the run and short passing game. But, Carr made some key throws in the 2nd half and deserves his share of the credit for the win. Hopefully this is a turning point for the team and for Carr should we retain his services next year.

Second Honeymoon
12-24-2006, 05:44 PM
Carr did a good job managing the game. If you don't acknowledge this fact, then don't be surprised if you are labeled a 'Carr Hater'. Carr made plays at significant moments in the game and didn't lose the football game for us. A rare performance indeed.

Carr managed to do something he has only done 2 times prior in his career. He went through a game without fumbling, throwing a pick, or getting sacked. We are now 3-0 when Carr plays mistake-free football. The fact that it took 60 games to play 3 good games is where the problem lies. But rest assured, there were no problems today.

Oh, and don't say 'Well it was against the Colts bad defense'. The Colts have everything to play for and the Texans had nothing to play for but pride and in some cases their jobs.

Props to Carr for playing a good game. He didn't have an average game and he didn't have a great game. He had, by definition, a good game.

I don't think Carr is a playoff caliber QB much less championship QB, but if the 'brain trust' does decide to bring him back next year, this performance at least makes that decision a little more pallatable. Re-signing Carr last offseason was a major mistake but to bring him back next year would just be a football decision and can't be labeled a mistake. The mistake was already made....

I gotta give credit to us fans too. Not much tailgating was going on but the stands were pretty loud and full especially with all things considered (weather, current state of Texans, Christmas Eve, etc.). All of our loyalty was rewarded with a competitive and professional performance that was most importantly ENTERTAINING....after all that is why we spend thousands of dollars and thousands of hours supporting our football franchise. to be entertained.

Dayne won the game for us, but remember that David did not lose the game for us. There is something to be said for both of them, and its all positive regarding today's performance.

TexanLen
12-24-2006, 05:49 PM
WK 16 191 rushing yards. (Win) 163 passing 1 TD

WK 15 105 rushing yards. 127 passing yards. 4 INT

WK 14 117 rushing yards. 140 Passing yards.

WK 13 129 rushing yards. (Win) 32 passing yards.

Wk 12 25 rushing yards. 321 passing yards. 1 TD 1 INT

WK 11 188 rushing yards. 223 passing yards. 1 INT.

It looks like the rushing yards are there with the exception of the Jets game where Carr had his best yardage game. I am tired of hearing "if we had a running game." If Carr can play mistake free like he did today, he will be ok. He made the plays to win. No body is perfect, we only need him to play like this more than not.

Did Carr beat the colts? NO. The TEXANS beat the colts. It was a great TEAM effort. Carr included, but NO, it wasn't ONLY Carr.

If

Oilersfan
12-24-2006, 05:50 PM
Yes we need all of those things, before you go anointing Dayne the man, check out his career stats.

TexanLen
12-24-2006, 05:55 PM
Yes we need all of those things, before you go anointing Dayne the man, check out his career stats.

I agree. I do have to give it up to him though the past 4 games. He has been solid. BUT... Is it the line learning the system or the RB?

TexanLen
12-24-2006, 06:01 PM
I am sorry, I have to laugh when i see the name of this thread. THIS IS SERIOUS MAN-LOVE FOR CARR IF I EVER SAW IT!!!!

BattleRedToro
12-24-2006, 06:05 PM
I am sorry, I have to laugh when i see the name of this thread. THIS IS SERIOUS MAN-LOVE FOR CARR IF I EVER SAW IT!!!!

Actually, I think it is a kind of protest to the myopic man-love that true Texans fans have had to tolerate on this board from the Vince Young crowd.

Second Honeymoon
12-24-2006, 06:08 PM
I am sorry, I have to laugh when i see the name of this thread. THIS IS SERIOUS MAN-LOVE FOR CARR IF I EVER SAW IT!!!!

oh yeah, Goldeagle is clueless when it comes to serious analysis but hey to each his own. each fan has their own way of doing things.

BattleRedToro
12-24-2006, 06:10 PM
oh yeah, Goldeagle is clueless when it comes to serious analysis but hey to each his own. each fan has their own way of doing things.

I could say the same for you, Second Honeymoon.

pv1999
12-24-2006, 06:42 PM
David showed all of us what we could have had with a little patience. After we run him out of town and bring in someone else to take our abuse. He will be long gone playing for a team that matters instead of making us into a team that matters. And what we saw today is proof that when the run game gets going and David doesnt have to do it alone he is a darn good QB which is all any team needs to make a run. Just ask Pittsburg.

TexansSeminole
12-24-2006, 06:49 PM
I am a good luck charm...we won every game I have been to (5 or so). I will be at the Browns game too.

NFLforher
12-24-2006, 06:54 PM
He gets blamed for losses, he gets the Credit for the WINS!

Seriously Ron Dayne Healthy is the MAN! Do we really need AP? We need an O-line and a safety (Nate Clements in Free agency) before a RB!



I like that thought!

:marionaner:

NFLforher
12-24-2006, 06:55 PM
David showed all of us what we could have had with a little patience. After we run him out of town and bring in someone else to take our abuse. He will be long gone playing for a team that matters instead of making us into a team that matters. And what we saw today is proof that when the run game gets going and David doesnt have to do it alone he is a darn good QB which is all any team needs to make a run. Just ask Pittsburg.


Yes, and some support. I expect to see him gone and thriving with another team.

BattleRedToro
12-24-2006, 07:13 PM
Truely pathetic. Any QB could have handed off all daylong and beat the Colts today. You carr lovers will wish this never happened if he is the QB in 2007. Remember. I told you that repeatedly.

Really? The boxscore indicates that he threw a TD pass.

NFLforher
12-24-2006, 07:19 PM
Props to Carr for playing a good game. He didn't have an average game and he didn't have a great game. He had, by definition, a good game..


Very true.

:)

Goldeagle
12-24-2006, 07:26 PM
I am sorry, I have to laugh when i see the name of this thread. THIS IS SERIOUS MAN-LOVE FOR CARR IF I EVER SAW IT!!!!


Hey, just because he did not sign an auto for you and your secret shrine for him and he did not want to watch a movie with you is in no way justification to point out man love lol. Im sure one day DC will sign something for you or pat you on the head kiddo lol.


Carr Haters=secret Carr "lovers" (if you know what I mean)

:stirpot:

mganz
12-24-2006, 08:24 PM
I don't want to get all on the Carr bandwagon, but he did throw a TD pass today + the game winning pass to get us withing field goal range. There's no reason to be bashing Carr today people. At least give him 24 hrs. or something.

He did lead the team to this point. When the Tenn kicker made the 60 yarder for the win it was all b/c of Young. I agree lets give Carr some credit for the win.

zeplin
12-24-2006, 09:06 PM
when does Carr get credit then? oh wait.. this is the Texans messageboard.. Carr gets all the losses and is the whipping boy.


being we can't whip him this week we find reasons not to praise.

all I know is Carr made some key throws today, he did what he had to do.. maybe not spectacular, but he made the throws that needed to be made
Today we saw how the offense is suppossed to look. The running game sets up the passing opportunities.That is what the west coast offense is all about. No run equates to no pass. This has never been all about David. We need to fix the Offensive line. .

Goldeagle
12-24-2006, 10:52 PM
oh yeah, Goldeagle is clueless when it comes to serious analysis but hey to each his own. each fan has their own way of doing things.


Right....when we get better pass protection, clear running and passing lanes, a healthy Dayne, a great run game that the Colts D bought on the roll out and no one dropped a pass today, I had no clue we could actually win.

In fact Im pretty clueless my friend :tease: So let me get this straight

When we have good protection, good run lanes, good pocket formation, no dropped passes, great play action and roll out passes, and a defense that clamped down a bit we can.........whats that word?????? GOSH my brain hurts..........WIN, YEAH CAN WIN????


hmmmm

:hides: :)

MrMeToo
12-24-2006, 10:58 PM
Right....when we get better pass protection, clear running and passing lanes, a healthy Dayne, a great run game that the Colts D bought on the roll out and no one dropped a pass today, I had no clue we could actually win.

In fact Im pretty clueless my friend :tease: So let me get this straight

When we have good protection, good run lanes, good pocket formation, no dropped passes, great play action and roll out passes, and a defense that clamped down a bit we can.........whats that word?????? GOSH my brain hurts..........WIN, YEAH CAN WIN????


hmmmm

:hides: :)

The realest thing you ever wrote...

the wonger need food
12-24-2006, 11:01 PM
Carr did a good job of not losing this game, but he's still not good enough to lead this team over the next 5 years. Let's hope he can string together 2 decent games without a bunch of turnovers and increase that trade value.

MrMeToo
12-24-2006, 11:06 PM
Carr did a good job of not losing this game, but he's still not good enough to lead this team over the next 5 years. Let's hope he can string together 2 decent games without a bunch of turnovers and increase that trade value.

Agreed.

skillz24
12-24-2006, 11:10 PM
Carr look good hopefully he can pull it off a couple more times so we can get good value for him in the offseason:hides:

ummm Carr is here to stay. all of you ***** and moan that it is all his fault when we lose and you give him some credit when we win. he has played like he did all year, the rest of the team helped out more today and look we won. that has been the most complete game we have played all year. Carr is never going to be a hall of fame quarterback like manning or farve but god he is the best guy available and we all saw why today, plummer could never beat the colts and he has broken confidence after this year why would we want him. i saw keep Carr he is showing signs of improvement and so is our team...finally. we need an offensive lineman or two in the draft, secondary help bad, and more in our linebacking core. i would love to find another late round steal at wide reciever to help us out.

skillz24
12-24-2006, 11:12 PM
Today we saw how the offense is suppossed to look. The running game sets up the passing opportunities.That is what the west coast offense is all about. No run equates to no pass. This has never been all about David. We need to fix the Offensive line. .

ding ding ding somebody has a right answer

Ibar_Harry
12-24-2006, 11:30 PM
Carr did a good job of not losing this game, but he's still not good enough to lead this team over the next 5 years. Let's hope he can string together 2 decent games without a bunch of turnovers and increase that trade value.

Did you notice that AJ almost cost us the game today. The holding call he got when Dayne scored was pretty devistating. That would have been the ball game without all the extra hassle that went along with trying to win.

Not one person has commented on this and its all been about Carr staying out of the way. My point is not about AJ or Carr, but rather as they say one or two plays often determine the outcome of an NFL football game. Its amazing how one or two plays can break you. Today we made all of the right plays and the Colts didn't.

I have a little different theory on the Texans. We win the games we shouldn't. I think part of that is that Carr and his team mates are high strung and do not perform well under pressure. I commented in another thread earlier in the week that Carr might perform well, because the pressure was off. I think it was true for Carr, but the team as a whole as well. There was no way we should have won this game, but our players didn't have to worry about a loss because it was a for gone conclusion.

Merry Christmas everyone and may the New Year bring you many blessings.

Napa Auto Parts
12-24-2006, 11:50 PM
ummm Carr is here to stay. all of you ***** and moan that it is all his fault when we lose and you give him some credit when we win. he has played like he did all year, the rest of the team helped out more today and look we won. that has been the most complete game we have played all year. Carr is never going to be a hall of fame quarterback like manning or farve but god he is the best guy available and we all saw why today, plummer could never beat the colts and he has broken confidence after this year why would we want him. i saw keep Carr he is showing signs of improvement and so is our team...finally. we need an offensive lineman or two in the draft, secondary help bad, and more in our linebacking core. i would love to find another late round steal at wide reciever to help us out.


you really think this one game will change kubiaks mind i hope he stay also sort of i just wish we could rework he's deal but i do hope we bring in some serious competition.

Goldeagle
12-25-2006, 12:13 AM
The realest thing you ever wrote...

I could have sworn insinuating some of you Carr haters are quasi Gay was the realest thing Ive ever wrote :)

HJam72
12-25-2006, 10:24 AM
Did you notice that AJ almost cost us the game today. The holding call he got when Dayne scored was pretty devistating. That would have been the ball game without all the extra hassle that went along with trying to win.

Not one person has commented on this and its all been about Carr staying out of the way. My point is not about AJ or Carr, but rather as they say one or two plays often determine the outcome of an NFL football game. Its amazing how one or two plays can break you. Today we made all of the right plays and the Colts didn't.

I have a little different theory on the Texans. We win the games we shouldn't. I think part of that is that Carr and his team mates are high strung and do not perform well under pressure. I commented in another thread earlier in the week that Carr might perform well, because the pressure was off. I think it was true for Carr, but the team as a whole as well. There was no way we should have won this game, but our players didn't have to worry about a loss because it was a for gone conclusion.

Merry Christmas everyone and may the New Year bring you many blessings.

So, how are we all gonna feel when we get stomped by the Browns next Sunday? :hides:

Vinny
12-25-2006, 10:25 AM
I wish you guys would talk about the game instead of talk about each other...this gets so old.....I'm going to start booting more of you guys who can't keep your banter on the game because it ruins this place.

Talking about the game and offering your opinions about the game = good.

Talking about each other and degrading each others posts = not so good.

merry christmas

thunderkyss
12-25-2006, 11:42 AM
Well what I saw today is the guy we drafted. Funny how the extra time elevated DC's game. What they needed for five years and been ignored an o-line upgrade. Might of been shear luck all of those passes hitting recievers between the numbers. What ya think ?

Out of his 23 pass attempts, maybe 2 of them were in the numbers. When your fullback has to twist around, bend over backwards, and catch the ball at his ankles.... that's not putting it between the numbers.

& That may not have been between the numbers, but may have been where the ball needed to be... a little higher would have been better. But for the most part....... most of his throws were off, and his "decent" "solid" game is more a testament to our recievers(Walter is clutch).

David had plenty of time to throw the ball last week.... nice pockets.. no pressure.... he just mis-read the defense, again, and again, and again, and again(4 times.....) actually, those 4 times are only the 4 times it bit him in the ass. He's been misreading all game(not seeing the open receivers, not identifying/targeting obvious mismatches...) all year. You want to talk about how good David is, we'd have won 13 games this year if he could do the basic QB stuff.. but instead, our Coach has spent the last 13 weeks teaching David how to drop back.

David's been beat to hell. If anyone can be allowed to use the excuse that his mechanics have been beaten out of him, David can. But how are you going to say, "look, you give him time, and he can be great"?? that's ridiculous. Kinda like saying if you give Bledsoe time, he can hurt you. if you give Plummer time, he'll hurt you... heck if you give anybody time, they'll hurt you. But once you get the reputation that a sack isn't necessary to get you out of your game...... then you'll have a sub-par pass rush(like ours) pressuring a decent OL(Dallas) and affecting your QB(Bledsoe).

So what am I saying?? David sucks.... but that's ok.... we knew he sucked when we gave him $8 mil to continue to lead our team. Kubiak said he can fix him. In the last two weeks, we've seen David Carr throw the ball downfield(like an NFL QB) more times than he has all year long. Last week, was bad...... this week was better(not stellar, not great, not pro-bowl worthy)..... I doubt David is replaced in the offseason.

threetoedpete
12-25-2006, 11:50 AM
Did you notice that AJ almost cost us the game today. The holding call he got when Dayne scored was pretty devistating. That would have been the ball game without all the extra hassle that went along with trying to win.

Not one person has commented on this and its all been about Carr staying out of the way. My point is not about AJ or Carr, but rather as they say one or two plays often determine the outcome of an NFL football game. Its amazing how one or two plays can break you. Today we made all of the right plays and the Colts didn't.

I have a little different theory on the Texans. We win the games we shouldn't. I think part of that is that Carr and his team mates are high strung and do not perform well under pressure. I commented in another thread earlier in the week that Carr might perform well, because the pressure was off. I think it was true for Carr, but the team as a whole as well. There was no way we should have won this game, but our players didn't have to worry about a loss because it was a for gone conclusion.

Merry Christmas everyone and may the New Year bring you many blessings.

He's pressing to hard the whole team is pressing to hard. I can only image what it is like for these guys out amonst us great unwashed. As far as you therory is concered...the o-line sucks, has sucked and untill they spend more than a fifty pick in the drafts on an o-lineman, will continue to suck. I can stand it as long as you can. :tease:

threetoedpete
12-25-2006, 11:54 AM
David had plenty of time to throw the ball last week.... nice pockets.. no pressure.... he just mis-read the defense, again, and again, and again, and again(4 times.....) actually, those 4 times are only the 4 times it bit him in the ass. He's been misreading all game(not seeing the open receivers, not identifying/targeting obvious mismatches...) all year. You want to talk about how good David is, we'd have won 13 games this year if he could do the basic QB stuff.. but instead, our Coach has spent the last 13 weeks teaching David how to drop back.

David's been beat to hell. If anyone can be allowed to use the excuse that his mechanics have been beaten out of him, David can. But how are you going to say, "look, you give him time, and he can be great"?? that's ridiculous. Kinda like saying if you give Bledsoe time, he can hurt you. if you give Plummer time, he'll hurt you... heck if you give anybody time, they'll hurt you. But once you get the reputation that a sack isn't necessary to get you out of your game...... then you'll have a sub-par pass rush(like ours) pressuring a decent OL(Dallas) and affecting your QB(Bledsoe).

So what am I saying?? David sucks.... but that's ok.... we knew he sucked when we gave him $8 mil to continue to lead our team. Kubiak said he can fix him. In the last two weeks, we've seen David Carr throw the ball downfield(like an NFL QB) more times than he has all year long. Last week, was bad...... this week was better(not stellar, not great, not pro-bowl worthy)..... I doubt David is replaced in the offseason.


I was gonna try but I give up on you TK. It's not worth the effort. Just glad you finally came out of the closet once again. Here ya go, here's your whip back again. Merry Christmass there big guy.

prostock101
12-25-2006, 12:16 PM
Carr didn't beat the Colts. The Texans beat the Colts. All Carr did was execute from his position. Dayne did his job just like the OL did theirs. Dexter did his job and gave us some good runbacks. Vonta did his job and blocked very well. Brown made all his field goals. Mario forced a fumble. The list goes on. The TEAM has to play well, not just one position.

hollywood_texan
12-25-2006, 12:17 PM
Before you guys get so excited about Carr and Ron Dayne, realize that the Texans didn't do to the Colts that several teams have already done. The way to beat the Colts isn't exactly a secret.

It was a good team win. But, getting up 14 points early in the game gave them the opportunity to run the football and the defense played well enough to take the Colts out of their gameplan that usually makes it a rout on the Texans so many times.

This was a good team win all the way around. Carr played good, but I don't think he is any more deserving than anyone else.

threetoedpete
12-25-2006, 12:21 PM
I wish you guys would talk about the game instead of talk about each other...this gets so old.....I'm going to start booting more of you guys who can't keep your banter on the game because it ruins this place.

Talking about the game and offering your opinions about the game = good.

Talking about each other and degrading each others posts = not so good.

merry christmas

don't have to ban me Vinny. I'm gone. Too funny.

The Pencil Neck
12-25-2006, 01:38 PM
Yeah tha tis why I made the post. To some people Carr has to go 30 for 30 350 yarrds and 3 Tds for him to have a "good" game.


No, for some people, Carr could go 30 for 30 and 350 yards with 3TDs and if we lost, it would be his fault because he wasn't making the right reads and getting more yards.

Carr really lost me with the Raider game and although I didn't get to see it, seeing his 4 picks in the Patriot game. If Kubiak thinks he can make it work with David, great. I doubt it but I'm still at a point where I trust GK.

Honoring Earl 34
12-25-2006, 01:47 PM
This is not a bash post it's something I noticed and it's interesting . Carr's problems are not at home .... it's when he's on the road . Think about his bad games .... there road games .

Indy 3 fumbles

Dallas 2 ints

Oak -5

NE 4 ints

LP field fum / int / benched

His worst games are by far on the road .

OzzO
12-25-2006, 03:35 PM
you really think this one game will change kubiaks mind i hope he stay also sort of i just wish we could rework he's deal but i do hope we bring in some serious competition.

Not that he's strictly talking about our QB position, but just so you know, our head coach does have his mind focused (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/4425172.html).

...What it all means as the Texans look toward 2007 is a debate for another day. At other times this season, it looked as if they'd turned some kind of corner only to crash again a week later.

Kubiak would have none of that talk. It was one game. It was going to make for a merrier Christmas, and that was all it was going to do.

"The corners, they get turned gradually," he said. "There is no one play or one day that you say, 'This is fixed.' It doesn't work that way."

Second Honeymoon
12-25-2006, 07:23 PM
I could have sworn insinuating some of you Carr haters are quasi Gay was the realest thing Ive ever wrote :)

no class

Napa Auto Parts
12-25-2006, 07:27 PM
I could have sworn insinuating some of you Carr haters are quasi Gay was the realest thing Ive ever wrote :)

no class

what do you expect he takes ron daynes rushing yards and touchdowns and adds them to david 200 yards passing i mean 100 some yeards passing.:hides:

Napa Auto Parts
12-25-2006, 07:29 PM
Not that he's strictly talking about our QB position, but just so you know, our head coach does have his mind focused (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/4425172.html).

i was just saying that one OK game doesnt make up for a season of failure :stirpot: it might for casserly since he drafted the kid but not for us texans fans that have high expectations.

Wolf
12-25-2006, 07:37 PM
boy it is hard to put the whip down a week or so isn't it :stirpot:

jayjordan
12-25-2006, 07:40 PM
carr had a decent game, we won because of ron dayne. without his running carr wouldnt have had the little passing game he had. why does everyone want carr to do so good and be great so bad. face it he's not the answer

Wolf
12-25-2006, 07:42 PM
carr had a decent game, we won because of ron dayne. without his running carr wouldnt have had the little passing game he had. why does everyone want carr to do so good and be great so bad. face it he's not the answer

well why does everyone like for him to fail? me personally don't think he is great, but I also want him to succeed not just for his personal reasons but also for the Texans reasons .. after all we used a #1 overall on him.. I am tired of our draft record being horrible

jayjordan
12-25-2006, 07:49 PM
well why does everyone like for him to fail? me personally don't think he is great, but I also want him to succeed not just for his personal reasons but also for the Texans reasons .. after all we used a #1 overall on him.. I am tired of our draft record being horrible

I dont want him to fail but thats what he has done for the past 4 to 5 years, so what else is there to expect. I want him to do well I thought this was our year and he failed me again. Hopefully this draft they will do somethng right and listen to the fans.

eriadoc
12-25-2006, 08:18 PM
Carr can be a middle-of-the-road, managing QB, maybe a little better. He's not going to be Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, or Drew Brees, I don't think (I'd love to be proven wrong). I fully believe he's better than Trent Dilfer the year he won a Super Bowl, and as efficient, with better tools, than Brad Johnson the year he won a Super Bowl.

Given that, I understand the desire to upgrade the position. Jake Plummer, Jeff Garcia, and Damon Huard are not upgrades to the position. You take any of those QBs and put them on this team and they'll look as bad or worse than Carr. Jake "The Mistake" Plummer got benched even though his team was 7-2 with him as the starter. Put that Mistake on this team and you really think he'd do any better? Anyone remember how badly Garcia played on a bad Browns team? All of a sudden he's a good QB now? That wouldn't have anything to do with the solid team around him, I suppose.

What we need is a QB that can come to a bad team and overcome poor play by his teammates and make plays despite the rest of the team. So do about 25 other teams. Fix the rest of the team and draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round - one that won't require a huge signing bonus and can learn Kubiak's system. In the meantime, get the rest of the team to play like they did yesterday.

Just my two cents ... YMMV.

Second Honeymoon
12-25-2006, 08:33 PM
well why does everyone like for him to fail? me personally don't think he is great, but I also want him to succeed not just for his personal reasons but also for the Texans reasons .. after all we used a #1 overall on him.. I am tired of our draft record being horrible

I have never wished for Carr to fail, quite the contrary. With me, its all about production and winning.

I may feel we need to make Carr the backup or trade/release him in the offseason but that doesnt mean I want him to fail. If anything him playing well only increases his stock. A lot of teams have bad QB situations right now. Carr may look like a possible solution to a GM under fire to bring in a QB. Many GMs dont want to spend a 1st round on QBs anymore unless the guy is a 'can't miss'. IMHO there are no 'can't miss' prospects in this years draft. Dangle Carr out there and anoint Sage as the starter for next year. Maybe Carr states a willingness to rework a deal for any prospective trade partner.

Bottom line is that I appreciate Carr playing well and I respect that he played well when the going got tough. Those are things that I have been looking for from him and have never seen in 5 years. Just because I see it for one game doesn't mean all is forgiven and forgotten. We need a new start and we owe it to the players to give someone else a shot. If we keep Carr and Sage doesn't play well then we put Carr in and give him a shot at saving his career and regaining his position.

Don't hate on people because they are calling for a change that they feel will improve the ball club. these opinions werent developed overnight. These opinions have a 5 year body of work to support them. One game doth not a Quarterback make.

PROPS TO CARR
PROPS TO DAYNE
PROPS TO KUBIAK FOR KEEPING THE LOCKER ROOM TOGETHER
THANKS FOR BEATING THE EVIL PEYTON MANNING AND THE COLTS

p.s. omg I can't believe I have actually been getting positive reputation. I actually have TWO bubbles. omg, I am going to go celebrate. MERRY CHRISTMAS

TexanLen
12-25-2006, 08:53 PM
Hey, just because he did not sign an auto for you and your secret shrine for him and he did not want to watch a movie with you is in no way justification to point out man love lol. Im sure one day DC will sign something for you or pat you on the head kiddo lol.


Carr Haters=secret Carr "lovers" (if you know what I mean)

:stirpot:

So I take it he did all that for you. That explains the man love you have for the guy. You make it no secret you have a man crush on him. I never said i hated the guy. He just isn't a good NFL QB. But, it's ok little fella, everybody needs a hero. So go and kiss his picture every night before bed and lay his picture next to you so you can have a great nights sleep.

TexanLen
12-25-2006, 09:04 PM
Carr didn't beat the Colts. The Texans beat the Colts. All Carr did was execute from his position. Dayne did his job just like the OL did theirs. Dexter did his job and gave us some good runbacks. Vonta did his job and blocked very well. Brown made all his field goals. Mario forced a fumble. The list goes on. The TEAM has to play well, not just one position.

What ^ said. Thanks!!!

TexanLen
12-25-2006, 09:32 PM
That's another thing too, No one is even bashing Carr for this game. He did what he had to do for the team to win. Let's not put him in the pro-bowl or even say this is a turn around game for him. Let's see what he does Sunday and see what happens in the off season. If the team decides to go in a different direction with a different QB, I am ok with it. Good luck DC where ever you go. If he does remain the QB and we do have a healthy OL and he still makes bad decisions, then we do need a change. If we have DC back at QB and the OL is healthy and he makes GOOD decisions, we should have more W's. I guess with the banged up OL, it gives him more of a chance for a year 6 here. We will see.

HJam72
12-25-2006, 10:28 PM
You know what's worse than the exaggerations? All the people exaggerating the exaggerations. There are WAY more people exaggerating the exaggerations than people exaggerating in the first place.

mganz
12-25-2006, 11:11 PM
I think he should get 1 more year with Kubs, to be in the same system for more than 1 season. This is not based on 1 game, this is based on the poor perfomance of the whole team. We can get 6 wins this year. Almost everyone said that 6 wins would be a successful season. Well its almost here. Sure we could have won more games but we didn't.

No David is not great! I do think he can be efficient, thats all I want. Don't make huge mistakes, make good decisions and give us a chance to win the games. Make a few plays a game. Obviously he hasn't done these things many times. About the game yesterday, that was about the best protection I have seen carr have through a game and he was efficient.

There just isn't many great QBs in the NFL. Someone mentioned Drew Breese and Rivers, you can't judge greatness in one season.

If through next season carr doesn't improve alot, then let him go at the end of 2007 season. At least that way we don't take as big of a cap hit.

This is just my opinion.

thunderkyss
12-26-2006, 08:23 AM
i was just saying that one OK game doesnt make up for a season of failure :stirpot: it might for casserly since he drafted the kid but not for us texans fans that have high expectations.

Truth is that no one knows what Kubiak is thinking............

I know the Raider & NE games were ugly for David. But their defenses outclassed our offense. We were playing out of our league.

Sure no one expected a -5 yards passing against Oakland.... but all David was supposed to do, was keep us in the game, and not lose it. And we didn't lose it.

Same thing against NewEngland...

David has improved his play, I wouldn't be surprised if David is our starting QB come TC.........

Kaiser Toro
12-26-2006, 09:39 AM
I watched the game again and Carr did not beat the Colts. Carr played a mistake free game and made some plays. I happen to think it was the best game of his career. We just need one more mistake free game and a Texan win to increase his trade value.

Double Barrel
12-26-2006, 09:55 AM
Truth is that no one knows what Kubiak is thinking............

Exactly, TK. Regardless of what the media pundits and angry fans want to believe, Carr is our QB until Kubiak says otherwise.

It's a simple truth that fans (and media) had better learn to digest, because it is what it is. No amount of attempted fortune telling or demands by the public/media will have even the slightest impact on the head coach's decisions.

David has improved his play, I wouldn't be surprised if David is our starting QB come TC.........

I agree. And as mentioned above, Carr is our QB until the head coach tell us different.

Well said and good post, TK. :howdy:

prostock101
12-26-2006, 10:06 AM
Exactly, TK. Regardless of what the media pundits and angry fans want to believe, Carr is our QB until Kubiak says otherwise.

It's a simple truth that fans (and media) had better learn to digest, because it is what it is. No amount of attempted fortune telling or demands by the public/media will have even the slightest impact on the head coach's decisions.



I agree. And as mentioned above, Carr is our QB until the head coach tell us different.

Well said and good post, TK. :howdy:

Here's my thought. Carr had a good game Sunday and even if he has good game against the Browns I still would not be surprised to see Plummer here next year as his backup.

Double Barrel
12-26-2006, 10:34 AM
Here's my thought. Carr had a good game Sunday and even if he has good game against the Browns I still would not be surprised to see Plummer here next year as his backup.

I won't be surprised either way. But that being said, I'm not going to gripe and moan about Carr being our QB, because I do believe that our HC knows more about these things than any of the so-called media 'experts'.

I have to keep it real - for my own sake - and expecting something will only lead to disappointment, especially considering the FO has not given us any indication that they plan on moving Carr. All of that is pure speculation by the media and fans at this point.

QB75
12-26-2006, 11:06 AM
Carr look good hopefully he can pull it off a couple more times so we can get good value for him in the offseason:hides:

One more win and the QB controversy goes away for 2007. Awesome.

dantem
12-26-2006, 11:41 AM
maybe im being unfair, but i just dont like the guy... had my sapport for 5 years and lost it... go texans:marionaner:

I'm sure there are plenty of folks that don't like you either, but the oppinion of a few morons won't change the fact that you are good at what you do, and have great value to the people around you.:)

dantem
12-26-2006, 11:45 AM
This is not a bash post it's something I noticed and it's interesting . Carr's problems are not at home .... it's when he's on the road . Think about his bad games .... there road games .

Indy 3 fumbles

Dallas 2 ints

Oak -5

NE 4 ints

LP field fum / int / benched

His worst games are by far on the road .

I think you could pretty much say the same thing about any QB in the league...

kenneth24
12-26-2006, 01:13 PM
Carr will cost some salary cap room if released but just for fun lets say the Texans keep him then you have to decide would you rather have Sage or Plummer? Sage is already signed for next year and I trust Sage more than I trust Plummer. I don't think there has been enough of a sampling size of Sage on what he's done or hasn't done but Plummer isn't called "Jake the Mistake" just because it rhymes.

real
12-26-2006, 01:24 PM
Here's my thought. Carr had a good game Sunday and even if he has good game against the Browns I still would not be surprised to see Plummer here next year as his backup.



John Wayne once said "Don't congratulate a man for doing his job"....


Carr didn't go above or beyond the call of duty this past Sunday....

I find it funny how some fans take this mediocre performance and act as if it was his saving grace....(not directed towards you neccessarily)

Second Honeymoon
12-26-2006, 01:30 PM
John Wayne once said "Don't congratulate a man for doing his job"....


Carr didn't go above or beyond the call of duty this past Sunday....

I find it funny how some fans take this mediocre performance and act as if it was his saving grace....(not directed towards you neccessarily)

xtru, he had a good game by anyone's standards in the NFL even the elite QBs. By Carr's standards he had a great game.

bottom line is he threw for approaching 10 yards per completion. He didn't fumble. He didn't throw a pick. He didn't take a sack.

That is a good game for anyone in the league even if it was against the Colts suffering defense. It wasn't great and it definitely wasnt a 'breakout' performance but he played a damn good game.

I am with you xtru that it doesnt change how I feel about Carr as our starting QB, but he did play a good game not just mediocre.

real
12-26-2006, 01:51 PM
I am with you xtru that it doesnt change how I feel about Carr as our starting QB, but he did play a good game not just mediocre.

I think he made a couple good plays, but I think his overall game was mediocre....

For the most part David was kept out of the way....My overall impression of his performance was that he played "very o.k"....

prostock101
12-26-2006, 01:54 PM
John Wayne once said "Don't congratulate a man for doing his job"....


Carr didn't go above or beyond the call of duty this past Sunday....

I find it funny how some fans take this mediocre performance and act as if it was his saving grace....(not directed towards you neccessarily)

I don't disagree. Carr did his job as did the rest of the team. Did he do enough to satisfy Kubiak? Hard to say and even a decent game against the Browns won't answer that question. I just have a feeling that Kub would rather have Plummer waiting on the bench than Rosenfel should Carr start up again with his "mental meltdowns". Now should Carr have a "meltdown" game against the Browns, then I'd almost guarantee Plummer will be here and some serious study of QB's in the draft will follow.....

HJam72
12-26-2006, 02:53 PM
I doubt that he'll have a meltdown against the Browns, but I bet that approximate 10 yds. per completion drops way back down.

SESupergenius
12-26-2006, 03:07 PM
Carr won the game. <---period. He drove the last drive to put them into FG range and preceded this with a clutch pass to Andre Johnson over the middle set it up. No sacks, No fumbles, no mental errors. it was a great game by him.

When someone tells me that Carr lost a game and forgets about the other guys on the team and their contributions, then they have to forget about the contributions of the team when there is a win. You can't have it both ways, and that is sad, because this IS a team sport more than most.

i for one saw a complete game from the Texans in all aspects of the game. coaching, players, schemes and luck.

Porky
12-26-2006, 03:16 PM
In the context of what he was asked to do, I thought Carr perhaps played his best game in the past two seasons. Now, was he asked to carry the team on his shoulders. No. He was asked to manage the game, make a few key throws and plays and most importantly, not to screw up. And he did all of the above in spades.

Now, did he play a great game in the mold of a Manning, Brady, Mcnabb? No. But, he did an excellent job at managing the game, and bringing home a victory against the vaunted Colts. Dayne and the Oline carried the team. Carr went along for the ride, and most importantly he didn't make any real mistakes. He even avoided the rush well, made some throws in the intermediate zone in the middle of the field, etc.

This is a David Carr we can win with if we put the right pieces around him. My problem is twofold - First, where has that Carr been for two whole seasons? And secondly, we are paying the guy like a top notch QB, and this is a "game manager" we are getting. Guys who can manage a game, and not screw the pooch are a dime a dozen. For where he was drafted, and his pay, he still needs to be much, much, better. But, I will give him his kudos.

Does it affect my longterm thinking? Absoletley not. We need to dump him like yesterday's news, and get a real QB in here that can do more than manage to not lose another game.

Vinny
12-26-2006, 03:17 PM
In the context of what he was asked to do, I thought Carr perhaps played his best game in the past two seasons. Now, was he asked to carry the team on his shoulders. No. He was asked to manage the game, make a few key throws and plays and most importantly, not to screw up. And he did all of the above in spades.

Now, did he play a great game in the mold of a Manning, Brady, Mcnabb? No. But, he did an excellent job at managing the game, and bringing home a victory against the vaunted Colts. Dayne and the Oline carried the team. Carr went along for the ride, and most importantly he didn't make any real mistakes. He even avoided the rush well, made some throws in the intermediate zone in the middle of the field, etc.

This is a David Carr we can win with if we put the right pieces around him. My problem is twofold - First, where has that Carr been for two whole seasons? And secondly, we are paying the guy like a top notch QB, and this is a "game manager" we are getting. Guys who can manage a game, and not screw the pooch are a dime a dozen. For where he was drafted, and his pay, he still needs to be much, much, better. But, I will give him his kudos.

Does it affect my longterm thinking? Absoletley not. We need to dump him like yesterday's news, and get a real QB in here that can do more than manage to not lose another game.
Carr had a couple of good games this year...but is that what we want out of our 8mil a year QB? A couple of good games a year? Many fans are ok with that...personally I don't 'get' that myself.

Double Barrel
12-26-2006, 03:25 PM
This is a David Carr we can win with if we put the right pieces around him. My problem is twofold - First, where has that Carr been for two whole seasons?

Same place this team has been for the past two seasons: in the cellar.

Our defense has been pathetic in trying to hold a lead, especially late in a game. But the QB is more high profile than a group of players, so he gets the brunt of it.

But the fact remains that our TEAM has sucked, and no QB would have changed this simple fact of life.

And secondly, we are paying the guy like a top notch QB, and this is a "game manager" we are getting. Guys who can manage a game, and not screw the pooch are a dime a dozen. For where he was drafted, and his pay, he still needs to be much, much, better. But, I will give him his kudos.

This is an excellent point, and one that must be realized in the big scheme of things. If Carr was willing to renegotiate his contract to be in accordance with the player that he actually is, he'd take a lot less heat.

$8 million/year should not net a Trent Dilfer-type QB. We'll need more from him with that salary, and frankly, I don't think he's that kind of QB. We'll be lucky to get consistent performances from Carr like last Sunday, but I would not hold our breath for him to ever be Elway-like.

Does it affect my longterm thinking? Absoletley not. We need to dump him like yesterday's news, and get a real QB in here that can do more than manage to not lose another game.

Will you hate Kubiak if he decides to keep Carr and continue to build a running game and defense around him? :shades:

Porky
12-26-2006, 03:26 PM
Carr had a couple of good games this year...but is that what we want out of our 8mil a year QB? A couple of good games a year? Many fans are ok with that...personally I don't 'get' that myself.

Totally agree, that was part of my original post. Let's face it. The game is on the line, and they still ran Dayne until they had no choice but to allow Carr to try to make a game winning throw. To his credit, he did it, but what does that say about the coaches confidence in him? Most teams would have been throwing once they got to two minutes. Kubes was so hesistant to allow that, and he almost got burnt. I can hear the second guessing now if Kris Brown missed that FG and the Colts won in OT.

The truth is that the team just simply doesn't trust Carr to make any plays. Again, to his credit, he made a couple Sunday. But, looking at the big picture nothing really changed. He is still... at his best a game manager, not a game maker. And, when he is at his worst, which is all too often, he is a game loser. As much as I liked the game Sunday, nothing I saw changes that overarching theme.

Second Honeymoon
12-26-2006, 03:27 PM
Carr had a couple of good games this year...but is that what we want out of our 8mil a year QB? A couple of good games a year? Many fans are ok with that...personally I don't 'get' that myself.

quoted for truth

real
12-26-2006, 03:28 PM
To
But, looking at the big picture nothing really changed. He is still... at his best a game manager, not a game maker. And, when he is at his worst, which is all too often, he is a game loser.

+

Carr had a couple of good games this year...but is that what we want out of our 8mil a year QB? A couple of good games a year? Many fans are ok with that...personally I don't 'get' that myself.




= a complete summary of my thoughts

HJam72
12-26-2006, 03:35 PM
Totally agree, that was part of my original post. Let's face it. The game is on the line, and they still ran Dayne until they had no choice but to allow Carr to try to make a game winning throw. To his credit, he did it, but what does that say about the coaches confidence in him? Most teams would have been throwing once they got to two minutes. Kubes was so hesistant to allow that, and he almost got burnt. I can hear the second guessing now if Kris Brown missed that FG and the Colts won in OT.

The truth is that the team just simply doesn't trust Carr to make any plays. Again, to his credit, he made a couple Sunday. But, looking at the big picture nothing really changed. He is still... at his best a game manager, not a game maker. And, when he is at his worst, which is all too often, he is a game loser. As much as I liked the game Sunday, nothing I saw changes that overarching theme.

There were arguments about when to pass. They had a pregame plan to run, run, run, and run some more. The Colts D is horrible at stopping the run, but you drop back to pass and Freeney is on your butt before you can say "Dwight". They are just way better at stopping the pass than the run, unless they are falling all over themselves anticipating a run. You still have a good argument there, but I'd say this was about their D, Vonta Leach, and the surge of Ron Dayne over the last month, not about Carr.

Porky
12-26-2006, 03:35 PM
Will you hate Kubiak if he decides to keep Carr and continue to build a running game and defense around him? :shades:

Well, the answer is maybe. If they decide to keep Carr, I would like to see two things take place. One is that in April, let's draft a guy in the 2nd-4th round that we can develop long term. Secondly, let's have a real competition among those in camp. Most likely, that means a battle between Carr and Rosenfels. Forget all the ego crap with David, and have a real, honest, open competition for the starter's position. Kubes talked a good game about how it was all about what takes place on the field, but in the end, the second best player based on offseason workouts and preseason games was handed the starters role by simple fiat. Talk is cheap. Let's see some real teeth and meaning behind those words next year.

BTW - The above is my take IF they decide to keep him. My personal perference is to trade or release him, and let's start over at QB1.

HJam72
12-26-2006, 03:39 PM
Well, the answer is maybe. If they decide to keep Carr, I would like to see two things take place. One is that in April, let's draft a guy in the 2nd-4th round that we can develop long term. Secondly, let's have a real competition among those in camp. Most likely, that means a battle between Carr and Rosenfels. Forget all the ego crap with David, and have a real, honest, open competition for the starter's position. Kubes talked a good game about how it was all about what takes place on the field, but in the end, the second best player based on offseason workouts and preseason games was handed the starters role by simple fiat. Talk is cheap. Let's see some real teeth and meaning behind those words next year.

BTW - The above is my take IF they decide to keep him. My personal perference is to trade or release him, and let's start over at QB1.

I can't disagree with any of that. It's way to hard to know what other QBs would do when we never see them, hardly even in the preseason, it seems like.

Double Barrel
12-26-2006, 03:39 PM
The truth is that the team just simply doesn't trust Carr to make any plays. Again, to his credit, he made a couple Sunday. But, looking at the big picture nothing really changed. He is still... at his best a game manager, not a game maker. And, when he is at his worst, which is all too often, he is a game loser.

In essence, this is the nail on the head....for $8 million.

Well, the answer is maybe. If they decide to keep Carr, I would like to see two things take place. One is that in April, let's draft a guy in the 2nd-4th round that we can develop long term. Secondly, let's have a real competition among those in camp. Most likely, that means a battle between Carr and Rosenfels. Forget all the ego crap with David, and have a real, honest, open competition for the starter's position. Kubes talked a good game about how it was all about what takes place on the field, but in the end, the second best player based on offseason workouts and preseason games was handed the starters role by simple fiat. Talk is cheap. Let's see some real teeth and meaning behind those words next year.

BTW - The above is my take IF they decide to keep him. My personal perference is to trade or release him, and let's start over at QB1.

I agree about competition. But then there's that $8 million staring at you from the bench, which makes the FO/HC look bad no matter how you slice and dice it.

Personally, I'd like to see Sage and a rookie QB in training camp, no matter how they move Carr. But as I've stated before, DC is our QB until the HC says otherwise, for better or for worse. In Kubiak we trust.

prostock101
12-26-2006, 05:52 PM
Honestly, the very best scenario for this team is for Carr to step up and finally become an elite NFL QB. I would hate to see us waste a draft pick on a developmental QB when we have so many more needs on both sides of the ball. Spencer Tilman on Ch.13 the other night mentioned that he spoke to Bill Walsh about Carr and he (Walsh) thought Carr's problem was trying to do too much when things started to implode. Maybe these last two games are when he "gets" what Kub is trying to teach him. The team as a whole apparently "got it" when they decided that making mistakes "was not ok". Maybe this is the turnaround game we've all been waiting for. And maybe bin Laden turns himself in........Geezzzz, maybe I'm just sick of Carr being such a huge focal point for this team.

thunderkyss
12-26-2006, 05:55 PM
What I see.... looking at David, is a guy who is being allowed to do a little bit at a time...... He isn't being asked to win any game for us. CoachK knows he isn't capable of doing that yet.

Every game, I'm sure there were certain things David was to focus on. I don't know what those things are, for which games...... But I believe some of the things were like David keeping his footwork consistent from one play after another.. especially after sacks...

In a way.... David had to/has to develop a short memory.

I don't think CoachK ever told David to concentrate on the short high percentage passes.... I imagine Kubes went over film, and pictures showing him which passes he should have made, and where he needs to put the ball.

Against NewEngland, you can tell that he was told to make more downfield throws.... hence the forced throws.

He did the same thing against Indy.... if they were as cerebral a team as NewEngland's..... NE figured out what David was doing.. Indy didn't..... they'd have picked David off just as often.

If we'd have been as committed to the run early against NE, I think it would have turned out similar to our game against Indy.

But if I were Kubiak...... and my goal was to fix David Carr... then to hell with winning, David would be our starter next season.... no JakePlummer, and no competition in TC..

We'll trust David to take a few more choices(anyone notice his Audible in our first possesion??), and encourage him to take a few more chances.

We'll play small ball again next year, hopeing to steal a game or two..... hopefully that light bulb that was to go off in David's head 6 games ago, will go off sometime before midseason next year.

Our running game should be really good next season.... Ron Dayne & Gado with an offensive line that can make holes....... & Chester Pitts pulling, should go a long way to opening our passing game. Wali & Chris Taylor may very well be stars in the making...

long story short....... expect to see David starting come Sept.....

kenneth24
12-26-2006, 08:37 PM
What I see.... looking at David, is a guy who is being allowed to do a little bit at a time...... He isn't being asked to win any game for us. CoachK knows he isn't capable of doing that yet.

Every game, I'm sure there were certain things David was to focus on. I don't know what those things are, for which games...... But I believe some of the things were like David keeping his footwork consistent from one play after another.. especially after sacks...

In a way.... David had to/has to develop a short memory.

I don't think CoachK ever told David to concentrate on the short high percentage passes.... I imagine Kubes went over film, and pictures showing him which passes he should have made, and where he needs to put the ball.

Against NewEngland, you can tell that he was told to make more downfield throws.... hence the forced throws.

He did the same thing against Indy.... if they were as cerebral a team as NewEngland's..... NE figured out what David was doing.. Indy didn't..... they'd have picked David off just as often.

If we'd have been as committed to the run early against NE, I think it would have turned out similar to our game against Indy.

But if I were Kubiak...... and my goal was to fix David Carr... then to hell with winning, David would be our starter next season.... no JakePlummer, and no competition in TC..

We'll trust David to take a few more choices(anyone notice his Audible in our first possesion??), and encourage him to take a few more chances.

We'll play small ball again next year, hopeing to steal a game or two..... hopefully that light bulb that was to go off in David's head 6 games ago, will go off sometime before midseason next year.

Our running game should be really good next season.... Ron Dayne & Gado with an offensive line that can make holes....... & Chester Pitts pulling, should go a long way to opening our passing game. Wali & Chris Taylor may very well be stars in the making...

long story short....... expect to see David starting come Sept.....

Totally agree...all the way down to Pitts pulling and thats why I prefer him at guard. Totally agree also about David needing to develop a short memory especially after taking a hit or sack. He's tough but you can see his footwork change and downgrades after a hit or a sack.

noxiousdog
12-27-2006, 10:40 AM
Carr had a couple of good games this year...but is that what we want out of our 8mil a year QB? A couple of good games a year? Many fans are ok with that...personally I don't 'get' that myself.

In my case it's not so much that Carr is good, it's worrying about the alternative. I don't want to waste another high round pick on a QB that may or may not pan out (especially in the next draft) when we have so many other needs (LT, both safeties, OLB, RB).

Given the right tools, Carr can be a Delhomme, Kitna, Hasselback type QB. He's clearly not an elite level guy, but how often do they come around? I wouldn't be opposed to taking a hard look at a QB late in the first (as a trade up (or down)), but I'd hate to see a top ten reach at the behest of fans.

2 years ago we were 7-9 and looking at the playoffs. Then disaster. In one year Kubiak has us within 1 game of 6-10. At this point, I still trust his judgement.

real
12-27-2006, 10:44 AM
In my case it's not so much that Carr is good, it's worrying about the alternative.


So we should settle ?

That's like settling with a woman because you're afraid that you can't do better...

Mr. White
12-27-2006, 11:34 AM
Carr homer after a loss:

"David didn't drop passes, blow blocks, or get burned for TD's."

Carr homer after a win:

"David won that game all by himself. The QB controversy's over."

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 11:44 AM
Totally agree, that was part of my original post. Let's face it. The game is on the line, and they still ran Dayne until they had no choice but to allow Carr to try to make a game winning throw. To his credit, he did it, but what does that say about the coaches confidence in him? Most teams would have been throwing once they got to two minutes. Kubes was so hesistant to allow that, and he almost got burnt. I can hear the second guessing now if Kris Brown missed that FG and the Colts won in OT.

The truth is that the team just simply doesn't trust Carr to make any plays. Again, to his credit, he made a couple Sunday. But, looking at the big picture nothing really changed. He is still... at his best a game manager, not a game maker. And, when he is at his worst, which is all too often, he is a game loser. As much as I liked the game Sunday, nothing I saw changes that overarching theme.
That's the thing though, throughout his tenure we haven't really been a team that can say we play smashmouth football with anyone. We've always had to rely on the pass protection and David Carr to win games for us. As you find out, the running game is as much or even more important to the success of a team than the passing game. Teams have never respected our line and have rushed only 4 guys and consistantly got pressure. We are now starting to see a running game that can be respectable and the other teams may now need to adress that in their game planning, thus opening up the passing game with play action and boots.

Texan_Bill
12-27-2006, 11:46 AM
Carr homer after a loss:

"David didn't drop passes, blow blocks, or get burned for TD's."

Carr homer after a win:

"David won that game all by himself. The QB controversy's over."

"David didn't drop passes, blow blocks, or get burned for TD's."

You forgot: "David didn't roll over the top on 2 deep coverage to stop back to back 83 yard touchdown bombs, he couldn't get a sack on Losman to prevent a touchdown with less than 2 minutes in the game............balh, blah......"

:hmmm:

eriadoc
12-27-2006, 11:54 AM
Well, the answer is maybe. If they decide to keep Carr, I would like to see two things take place. One is that in April, let's draft a guy in the 2nd-4th round that we can develop long term. Secondly, let's have a real competition among those in camp. Most likely, that means a battle between Carr and Rosenfels. Forget all the ego crap with David, and have a real, honest, open competition for the starter's position. Kubes talked a good game about how it was all about what takes place on the field, but in the end, the second best player based on offseason workouts and preseason games was handed the starters role by simple fiat. Talk is cheap. Let's see some real teeth and meaning behind those words next year.

I agree with this course of action totally. However, I am inclined to believe that if Carr actually won the job in TC, there would be plenty of posters here that would be screaming about Carr being named starter anyway.

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 12:04 PM
The only thing Rosenfels outplayed was the 2-3 string defense he played against. Sure his stats looked good in against 2-3 stringers and mop up time this season, but when he was handed the reigns when Carr when down, he couldn't do squat.

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 12:11 PM
You don't pay $8 million a year to a QB that on a good day is a game manager and on a bad day is one of the worst QBs in the history of the NFL.

If he wants to 'game manage' for $3million or $4million, then fine. But you don't pay franchise QB money for a scrub QB.

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 12:12 PM
The only thing Rosenfels outplayed was the 2-3 string defense he played against. Sure his stats looked good in against 2-3 stringers and mop up time this season, but when he was handed the reigns when Carr when down, he couldn't do squat.

the El Paso School District must be abyssmal.....

MrMeToo
12-27-2006, 12:19 PM
Carr homer after a loss:

"David didn't drop passes, blow blocks, or get burned for TD's."

Carr homer after a win:

"David won that game all by himself. The QB controversy's over."

LOL.Very true.

eriadoc
12-27-2006, 12:25 PM
You don't pay $8 million a year to a QB that on a good day is a game manager and on a bad day is one of the worst QBs in the history of the NFL.

If he wants to 'game manage' for $3million or $4million, then fine. But you don't pay franchise QB money for a scrub QB.

Very true. I hold that against the front office, however. It's not like Carr wrote his own check. After four years, they should have known what they were in for, as far as a rebuilding project goes. They chose to pay Carr that money. It wasn't a player option. It was a team option. This organization has overpaid for many players in the past. Babin, for instance, is a solid contributor, but not spectacular. He's certainly not worth the first-round grade they laid on him, but players have little choice as to where they are chosen in the draft. Morlon Greenwood has actually played a little better this season, but he's not worth what the team is paying him. If the team were paying some of these players appropriately, then they could afford to go out and pay for proven commodities like Nate Clements or Lance Briggs.

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2006, 12:26 PM
The only thing Rosenfels outplayed was the 2-3 string defense he played against. Sure his stats looked good in against 2-3 stringers and mop up time this season, but when he was handed the reigns when Carr when down, he couldn't do squat.

As time has gone on the Titans Defense, specifically the secondary, has been pretty darn good. Can you provide proof that the Titans had their 2nd and 3rd stringers on defense when Sage was in there? He came in early in the 3rd quarter and I can't believe that Fisher would pull out his starters when the score was 21-3 and definitely not when it was 21-10. Moreover, the Titans only had 14 players make a tackle the whole day.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/gamecenter/live/NFL_20061029_HOU@TEN

noxiousdog
12-27-2006, 12:42 PM
So we should settle ?

That's like settling with a woman because you're afraid that you can't do better...

No. It's saying that a top ten RB, OLB, Safety, or LT would improve our team more than Quinn would.

real
12-27-2006, 12:47 PM
No. It's saying that a top ten RB, OLB, Safety, or LT would improve our team more than Quinn would.

I agree....


But you said that you didn't want to move on from Carr because fear of the lack of a better alternative....

IMO, that's not a good reason....If you know Carr is playing poorly, or not up to standards, I really don't see why you'd want to stay with him just because you think that at this time he's as good as we can do....

kenneth24
12-27-2006, 12:47 PM
Carr homer after a loss:

"David didn't drop passes, blow blocks, or get burned for TD's."

Carr homer after a win:

"David won that game all by himself. The QB controversy's over."

David did what he was supposed to do...put the ball where it needed to be for other skill players to make plays. No dropped passes or fumbles but one crucial penalty on AJ after a great job by the OLine to open a hole for Dayne to get to the endzone but AJ made a clutch catch to put the Texans in position for the field goal. The defense did a good job except for the 1 pass play to Harrison. Basically, one big mistake on each side of the ball and the TEAM was able to overcome them.
David did not win the game by himself but haters don't want to believe he even contributed to the win. And for those who say he just stayed out of the way, well then so did AJ by not getting a case of the drops and dunta for not tripping over himself and getting beat repeatedly like he has in previous games. Point is that everyone contributed to this win!

real
12-27-2006, 12:55 PM
David did not win the game by himself but haters don't want to believe he even contributed to the win. And for those who say he just stayed out of the way, well then so did AJ by not getting a case of the drops and dunta for not tripping over himself and getting beat repeatedly like he has in previous games. Point is that everyone contributed to this win!

We win games because David stays out of the way....We win games because David isn't asked to do to much because of the fear that he'll make mistakes...

On the second to last drive of the Indy game on third down, Kubes didn't even allow Carr to throw the ball...instead he ran it and settled for the field goal to tie it....Carr is being kept out of the way....We have a high paid first rd. pick at QB, and I am not happy with a game manager at this point...We need more out of our QB if we are going to win games consistently.....NO doubt in my mind with a better QB we win atleast two more games this season.....

Im not saying that the losses are all on Carr....I'm just saying that with a better QB some of our weaknesses wouldn't be so prevelant....

noxiousdog
12-27-2006, 12:56 PM
I agree....


But you said that you didn't want to move on from Carr because fear of the lack of a better alternative....

IMO, that's not a good reason....If you know Carr is playing poorly, or not up to standards, I really don't see why you'd want to stay with him just because you think that at this time he's as good as we can do....


You're putting words in my mouth. I specifically said
I wouldn't be opposed to taking a hard look at a QB late in the first (as a trade up (or down)), but I'd hate to see a top ten reach at the behest of fans.

real
12-27-2006, 01:00 PM
You also said:

In my case it's not so much that Carr is good, it's worrying about the alternative.


This is the part that I quoted....

I read the rest, but I was just adding that I didn't think that the quoted statement above was a good reason NOT to take another QB high...

Other than that I pretty much agreed...

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 01:28 PM
How about we approach Carr and say 'OK, you are making $8 million this year and you arent really earning your keep. We want to improve things for the team so we need you to reneg your contract down to $5million a year but pepper it with incentives that could actually help the contract reach $9million if we make the playoffs. This should appease his agent, the NFLPA and his wife/accountant. We then promise to use that 2-3million savings to 'help' our ability to sweeten the pot and lure Steinbach from Cincy. This would help us add even more depth to the OL and then give him a better chance at making his incentives.

If he doesn't seem receptive we would then inform him that chances are he will be released and will then have to shop his wares around the NFL where he will be lucky to get $3-$4million/year even from a QB-starving NFL franchise.

If he REALLY is a good guy and REALLY wants to win, he will accept this. If he is just about $$ then he can take his signing bonus and roll the dice that we don't cut him.

I would love to be able to get Nate Clements and Eric Steinbach this offseason. Maybe even Ken Hamlin the Safety from the Seahawks. Doing all these things would allow us to draft Branch or Gaines Adams in order to improve our Pass Rush.....

If Troy Aikman was such a hero of his, he needs to realize that Troy reneged his contract nearly annually for the betterment of the team and to the detriment of his wallet.

TheOgre
12-27-2006, 01:32 PM
The only thing Rosenfels outplayed was the 2-3 string defense he played against. Sure his stats looked good in against 2-3 stringers and mop up time this season, but when he was handed the reigns when Carr when down, he couldn't do squat.

Also, against the Titans, the defense was in the prevent defense when Rosenfels took over. The suspect pass blocking doesn't get exposed in that situation. With the talented targets (AJ, Moulds, Daniels), the table was set for him to do well.

old football fan
12-27-2006, 01:37 PM
We win games because David stays out of the way....We win games because David isn't asked to do to much because of the fear that he'll make mistakes...

On the second to last drive of the Indy game on third down, Kubes didn't even allow Carr to throw the ball...instead he ran it and settled for the field goal to tie it....Carr is being kept out of the way....We have a high paid first rd. pick at QB, and I am not happy with a game manager at this point...We need more out of our QB if we are going to win games consistently.....NO doubt in my mind with a better QB we win atleast two more games this season.....

Im not saying that the losses are all on Carr....I'm just saying that with a better QB some of our weaknesses wouldn't be so prevelant....

You must be linked to Kubiak by ESP. Don't claim to know something that is impossible for you to know.

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 01:37 PM
Also, against the Titans, the defense was in the prevent defense when Rosenfels took over. The suspect pass blocking doesn't get exposed in that situation. With the talented targets (AJ, Moulds, Daniels), the table was set for him to do well.

Bottom Line: Sage came in and the offense ran smooth and Sage looked in control which is something David has struggled with since Day One.

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 01:38 PM
You must be linked to Kubiak by ESP. Don't claim to know something that is impossible for you to know.

Kubiak has had a notoriously short leash with Carr this year. I would think that has already been established as an unquestionable fact.

old football fan
12-27-2006, 01:39 PM
And just for the record, I think Carr does need to go to a different team. It would do both the Texans and Carr good.

old football fan
12-27-2006, 01:42 PM
One game Carr is pulled and that makes a short leash for a whole year? I thought they played 16 games? Sorry my mistake.

noxiousdog
12-27-2006, 01:50 PM
Bottom Line: Sage came in and the offense ran smooth and Sage looked in control which is something David has struggled with since Day One.

Sage looked like David looked in the 4th quarter of the first two games. Like he was playing against a prevent defense.

thunderkyss
12-27-2006, 01:50 PM
Im not saying that the losses are all on Carr....I'm just saying that with a better QB some of our weaknesses wouldn't be so prevelant....

& every play wouldn't be scrutinized to the Nth degree........... every dropped pass wouldn't be a game changing occurance..... etc..... etc.... etc..

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 01:52 PM
One game Carr is pulled and that makes a short leash for a whole year? I thought they played 16 games? Sorry my mistake.

Dude, I am not saying its your mistake. I am saying that Kubiak has had Carr on a short leash pretty much since Game 4. Kubiak isn't asking Carr to do much at all because Kubiak himself says that their passing game is pretty much a wreck. I didnt say that Kubiak had a 'quick hook'. I said 'short leash' which means he wasn't ever let loose and when he was let loose we saw what the Patriots did to us.

real
12-27-2006, 01:55 PM
You must be linked to Kubiak by ESP. Don't claim to know something that is impossible for you to know.

LOL...

Where did I claim to know something ? Or say "Kubiak did this because" ?

real
12-27-2006, 01:57 PM
& every play wouldn't be scrutinized to the Nth degree........... every dropped pass wouldn't be a game changing occurance..... etc..... etc.... etc..

I agree.

BigBull17
12-27-2006, 02:00 PM
Yes Most deffinately we need a RB Dayne is old he wont last more than another season or two so we need someone to step in , I myself like Adrian Peterson but after seeing the way Dayne handles defenses I think Michael Bush would be the better choice sense hes big like Dayne

Dayne has pretty low mileage(sp) for a guy as "old" as he is. Hes only 28 or 29 but hasnt had to carry a huge load in his career. He could have some good running left on his budda belly.

thunderkyss
12-27-2006, 02:02 PM
How about we approach Carr and say 'OK, you are making $8 million this year and you arent really earning your keep. We want to improve things for the team so we need you to reneg your contract down to $5million a year but pepper it with incentives that could actually help the contract reach $9million if we make the playoffs. This should appease his agent, the NFLPA and his wife/accountant. We then promise to use that 2-3million savings to 'help' our ability to sweeten the pot and lure Steinbach from Cincy. This would help us add even more depth to the OL and then give him a better chance at making his incentives.



sounds cool...... but David only makes $5 mil.. his salary this year is $5 mil (plus he cashed a check for $8 mill (the bonus)). Next year, he'll make $5.75 mil (cap hit will be $7.75 mil because of the distribution of his bonus) & in '08, he'll earn another $6 mil (cap hit will be $8 mill).

So all this talk about paying him Elite money isn't really true, except for 2000, and 2006 where he actually got $13 million to play football for the Houston Texans.

I think the Cowboys got Bledsoe for $4 mill/yr..... the Dolphins got Harrington for $2 mil.. Plummer probably makes $8 mil, and will regargdless where he goes.

His cap hit is about where Leftwich, Delhomme, Manning($10 mil I think), and a few others are, but we aren't really paying him that much on a yearly basis.

Your plan wouldn't save us anymoney...

thunderkyss
12-27-2006, 02:04 PM
You must be linked to Kubiak by ESP. Don't claim to know something that is impossible for you to know.

I'm sorry, but what xtru said is common knowledge... doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

old football fan
12-27-2006, 02:06 PM
Let's just say that the QB position is only one of several positions that the Texans need to take a long look at in the off season.

Vinny
12-27-2006, 02:09 PM
sounds cool...... but David only makes $5 mil.. his salary this year is $5 mil (plus he cashed a check for $8 mill (the bonus)). Next year, he'll make $5.75 mil (cap hit will be $7.75 mil because of the distribution of his bonus) & in '08, he'll earn another $6 mil (cap hit will be $8 mill).

So all this talk about paying him Elite money isn't really true, except for 2000, and 2006 where he actually got $13 million to play football for the Houston Texans. ...I don't think you understand how the cap works based on this post. Just because the money is bonus money it doesn't mean the only relevant portion of his cap hit is his salary. If he had a 4k cap hit then we could use the other 4k for another player of impact. It doesn't matter if it is .10 cent salary and the balance as a bonus as long as he is playing under the contract. He does in fact make elite money at a 8 mil cap hit a year. If all we want is a caretaker QB that gets out of the way of the offense we need to sign a guy for half his money.

tsip
12-27-2006, 02:11 PM
How about we approach Carr and say 'OK, you are making $8 million this year and you aren't really earning your keep. We want to improve things for the team so we need you to reneg your contract down to $5million a year but pepper it with incentives that could actually help the contract reach $9million if we make the playoffs. This should appease his agent, the NFLPA and his wife/accountant. We then promise to use that 2-3million savings to 'help' our ability to sweeten the pot and lure Steinbach from Cincy. This would help us add even more depth to the OL and then give him a better chance at making his incentives.

If he doesn't seem receptive we would then inform him that chances are he will be released and will then have to shop his wares around the NFL where he will be lucky to get $3-$4million/year even from a QB-starving NFL franchise.

If he REALLY is a good guy and REALLY wants to win, he will accept this. If he is just about $$ then he can take his signing bonus and roll the dice that we don't cut him.

I would love to be able to get Nate Clements and Eric Steinbach this offseason. Maybe even Ken Hamlin the Safety from the Seahawks. Doing all these things would allow us to draft Branch or Gaines Adams in order to improve our Pass Rush.....

If Troy Aikman was such a hero of his, he needs to realize that Troy reneged his contract nearly annually for the betterment of the team and to the detriment of his wallet.

I like the reasoning in your post!! For me, the bottom line is simple---we can't go into next year 'pat' in Carr's situation. I believe Kubiak and Smith will make some 'solid' additions to the team, though they probably can't solve everything over night.

We are in a 'catch-22' situation with Carr that many posters warned against last year--is it Carr or is it the 'cast' around him? JMO, but Kubiak made a 'huge' mistake by not starting Sage in a couple of games before he was hurt. What if he'd started and his performance was 'lights out?' OK, so what if he 'stunk up the joint?' Either way, we'd have a better grip on our QB situation. All we know for sure now is that we have 'dumb downed' this offense as far as it can go--we have absolutely no vertical passing attack--status quo here could be disastrous.

The powers to be need to determine if Carr is the answer, given that-if he is-everything around him must be made perfect. Carr is not a 'top tier' QB that can get desired results with a 'marginal cast' around him, as his own performance does not 'elevate' those around him to play better....

Finally, playing 'tough' is not going to get it done WITHOUT getting us into the end zone. We need to be more focused on 'what' Carr does to help the team in 'tough situations' and not the fact he keeps getting up...heck, for $500,000, we can get players to do that all day...

TexanFanInCC
12-27-2006, 02:11 PM
my take on david carr is this. the throw he made to johnson in the 4th qtr was great and all, but thats about all he did that stands out. carr did not win the game, the team did (pretty much the running game). david carr didnt display much to make me think differently of him. all he did was take care of the football, but folks we need to think. Taking care of the football (what carr did) is an expectation you place on rookie QB's. Carr is a 5th yr veteran...expectations of not turning the ball over are weasle expectations to be placing on him. Im not bashing carr, but im not saying that he did a lot to make me think that he should still be the guy in houston. he still needs to come out and have a BIG game against a cruddy browns secondary at reliant before we can assume he is or is not the man here.

kenneth24
12-27-2006, 02:17 PM
We win games because David stays out of the way....We win games because David isn't asked to do to much because of the fear that he'll make mistakes...

On the second to last drive of the Indy game on third down, Kubes didn't even allow Carr to throw the ball...instead he ran it and settled for the field goal to tie it....Carr is being kept out of the way....We have a high paid first rd. pick at QB, and I am not happy with a game manager at this point...We need more out of our QB if we are going to win games consistently.....NO doubt in my mind with a better QB we win atleast two more games this season.....

Im not saying that the losses are all on Carr....I'm just saying that with a better QB some of our weaknesses wouldn't be so prevelant....

So the Texans use a gameplan that other teams figured out for them and work it to beat the Colts which included Carr stepping up and making a couple of throws throughout the game and thats considered staying out of the way? To me thats more of doing what is needed to beat the team you are playing. At that point in the game against the Colts, going for the tie is fine. You are in field goal range and you don't take points off the board. And don't say "Kubes was afraid Carr would get sacked, fumble, or throw and INT" because at that point when you had the ball for that long you make sure you come away with points. Maybe Kubes had confidence in the offense to make plays later in the quarter to win the game.
So, you aren't unhappy with Carr and how he as performed at QB, but more upset with the fact that he is paid as the Franchise player and isn't producing with the likes of Brees and Manning? With a better DB, OLineman, or DLineman we probably could have won another 1 or 2 games. 1 more better player at either of the those positions could greatly change our team. Carr has been terrible at certain points in the year, but when he does do his job give the guy credit instead of "Thank you for staying out of the way". He did what he was supposed to do and to you it wasn't $8 million worth but that isn't his fault he was picked or signed the contract. Like I said before, everyone did their job this past weekend whether it was Carr with his passes, Dunta on coverage (especially that play where he was covering Wayne and knocked the ball away), Dayne carrying the ball, Leach catching the ball from Carr (my belief that catch changed the whole game!) or lead blocking, OLine doing their jobs and the defense doing a good job and a great offense.

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 02:20 PM
sounds cool...... but David only makes $5 mil.. his salary this year is $5 mil (plus he cashed a check for $8 mill (the bonus)). Next year, he'll make $5.75 mil (cap hit will be $7.75 mil because of the distribution of his bonus) & in '08, he'll earn another $6 mil (cap hit will be $8 mill).

So all this talk about paying him Elite money isn't really true, except for 2000, and 2006 where he actually got $13 million to play football for the Houston Texans.

I think the Cowboys got Bledsoe for $4 mill/yr..... the Dolphins got Harrington for $2 mil.. Plummer probably makes $8 mil, and will regargdless where he goes.

His cap hit is about where Leftwich, Delhomme, Manning($10 mil I think), and a few others are, but we aren't really paying him that much on a yearly basis.

Your plan wouldn't save us anymoney...

But I think you get what I am saying though TK. We ask him to renegotiate his deal and try and clear up some cap space so we can help the team around him. If him and his agent aren't receptive then you tell him that we will trade him to Detroit or Cleveland for peanuts if we can't find a better deal elsewhere. He can then choose whether he wants to play here with an improved team or he can make his big money somewhere else and he would have no control over where he was sent. I feel he owes it to us to renegotiate his inflated deal or the deal will just evaporate and he can shop his wares elsewhere. He needs to make a sacrifice for the good of the franchise.

noxiousdog
12-27-2006, 02:28 PM
I don't think you understand how the cap works based on this post. Just because the money is bonus money it doesn't mean the only relevant portion of his cap hit is his salary. If he had a 4k cap hit then we could use the other 4k for another player of impact. It doesn't matter if it is .10 cent salary and the balance as a bonus as long as he is playing under the contract. He does in fact make elite money at a 8 mil cap hit a year. If all we want is a caretaker QB that gets out of the way of the offense we need to sign a guy for half his money.

Is 8 mil that expensive? Here's a list of 2005 QBs, (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=3) and the cap went up significantly from 2005-2006 and I understand it's doing nearly the same thing next year.

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 02:33 PM
As time has gone on the Titans Defense, specifically the secondary, has been pretty darn good. Can you provide proof that the Titans had their 2nd and 3rd stringers on defense when Sage was in there? He came in early in the 3rd quarter and I can't believe that Fisher would pull out his starters when the score was 21-3 and definitely not when it was 21-10. Moreover, the Titans only had 14 players make a tackle the whole day.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/gamecenter/live/NFL_20061029_HOU@TEN
I was talking about the playing time Sage has had this year in preseason (where the 2nd & 3rd stringers comment comes into play) and mop up time against the Titans. Carr can say he did well against the Colts in mop up time where he threw 3 td's, but it doesn't mean squat. Rosenfels hasn't done squat in legitimate game experience this season.

thunderkyss
12-27-2006, 02:33 PM
Is 8 mil that expensive? Here's a list of 2005 QBs, (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=3) and the cap went up significantly from 2005-2006 and I understand it's doing nearly the same thing next year.

I take that back, according to that list...... $5 mi/year is indeed Elite QB money.

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 02:36 PM
You don't pay $8 million a year to a QB that on a good day is a game manager and on a bad day is one of the worst QBs in the history of the NFL.
.
And this is a grammatically correct sentence? Sure thing, go ahead and call the kettle black please. try to stick to football topics please, you're not getting anywhere otherwise.

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2006, 02:37 PM
I was talking about the playing time Sage has had this year in preseason (where the 2nd & 3rd stringers comment comes into play) and mop up time against the Titans. Carr can say he did well against the Colts in mop up time where he threw 3 td's, but it doesn't mean squat. Rosenfels hasn't done squat in legitimate game experience this season.

Then VY means nothing in this rivalry, right? It was 21-3 with about 8 minutes left in the 3rd quarter in the city that had the Music City Miracle and a franchise that experienced a meltdown in the playoffs. Yeah they were definitely coasting given the situation, results and history. :rolleyes:

real
12-27-2006, 02:40 PM
So the Texans use a gameplan that other teams figured out for them and work it to beat the Colts which included Carr stepping up and making a couple of throws throughout the game and thats considered staying out of the way? To me thats more of doing what is needed to beat the team you are playing.


You're right....He did do what was needed....And what was needed from him was to not throw much, and to not be relied on to make plays....The Colts have the worst run defense in the leauge.....So my guess is that we won't be running like that on everbody...And not just the Colts game...Just about every game we've won Carr has been a non-factor..or been taken completely out of the game to give us a chance to win*CoughOAKLANDCough*.....

At some point with the way our team is structred, we are going to need a QB that can make plays THROUGHOUT the game....Carr is being payed too much to be asked to manage the game every week....I'm glad that he made the plays when he needed to, but this is the real world and when dealing with the real world you have to account for salary.....If Carr were making half his money, I wouldn't have AS much a problem with him being a game manager....Our team is not structred to have a game managing QB that is being paid like a first overall guy....We are hurting ourselves and I'm not really sure how you can't see that....Players need to play up to and beyond their contracts in order for us to win...Thats the point...You pay for the production that you THINK you're gonna get....

noxiousdog
12-27-2006, 02:42 PM
I take that back, according to that list...... $5 mi/year is indeed Elite QB money.

Last year. The cap jumped nearly 20% from 2005-2006, and another 7% next year.

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 02:43 PM
I take that back, according to that list...... $5 mi/year is indeed Elite QB money.most contracts have an escalating rise towards the end of them. Carr certainly would fall into that category. Is Carr overpaid, sure is, but that is what the market dictates for rookies. I think Roethlisburger and E. Manning are overpaid as well some experienced veterans, but what are our choices now that the beloved Vince Young is not available? Is there a QB in this class that is going to take us to the promised land with the current talent we have? Let's see your votes.

kenneth24
12-27-2006, 02:44 PM
Then VY means nothing in this rivalry, right? It was 21-3 with about 8 minutes left in the 3rd quarter in the city that had the Music Day Miracle and a franchise that experienced a meltdown in the playoffs. Yeah they were definitely coasting given the situation, results and history. :rolleyes:

Thank you soooooooo much for bringing that into this!:rolleyes: :tiptoe:

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 02:44 PM
city that had the Music Day Miracle Key word there is....miracle. a freaking miracle was needed.

real
12-27-2006, 02:44 PM
Is there a QB in this class that is going to take us to the promised land with the current talent we have? Let's see your votes.

How would we know unless we try ?

Would you hold on to a Woman that doesn't treat you right for fear that you can't find better ?

Or would dump her and start dating ?

noxiousdog
12-27-2006, 02:52 PM
Vince just got a contract that averages 10M per year. Matt Leinart got almost 9. Expect Brady Quinn to get more than either of them. For those complaining of Carr's 8M, you'll pay more if you use your first rounder on a new one.

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2006, 02:54 PM
Vince just got a contract that averages 10M per year. Matt Leinart got almost 9. Expect Brady Quinn to get more than either of them. For those complaining of Carr's 8M, you'll pay more if you use your first rounder on a new one.

Yep and we sure as heck better not draft a QB in the first round. There are some here that would like that, but I feel that is a select few and not a majority.

kenneth24
12-27-2006, 02:55 PM
How would we know unless we try ?

Would you hold on to a Woman that doesn't treat you right for fear that you can't find better ?

Or would dump her and start dating ?

I am fine with an the QB spot being up for grabs at training camp. All comers get a fair shot and may the best man win!

depends...does she have season tickets on the 50?!? :sarcasm:

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 02:56 PM
How would we know unless we try ?

Would you hold on to a Woman that doesn't treat you right for fear that you can't find better ?

Or would dump her and start dating ?
Ever hear of a 3rd rounder named Dave Ragone. yeah, he turned out well.

And as far as the woman analogy, If her offensive linemen weren't good then I would get new offensive linemen.

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 02:56 PM
most contracts have an escalating rise towards the end of them. Carr certainly would fall into that category. Is Carr overpaid, sure is, but that is what the market dictates for rookies. I think Roethlisburger and E. Manning are overpaid as well some experienced veterans, but what are our choices now that the beloved Vince Young is not available? Is there a QB in this class that is going to take us to the promised land with the current talent we have? Let's see your votes.

No there is not a franchise QB in this class. We aren't drafting a QB early just because we blew it last year. All that would do is just make last year's debacle that much more of a disaster.

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 02:58 PM
Ever hear of a 3rd rounder named Dave Ragone. yeah, he turned out well.

And as far as the woman analogy, If her offensive linemen weren't good then I would get new offensive linemen.

ummm, wake up. they have been doing that since Day One. maybe it's not all the OL's fault....but I know that would bust your lil' bubble huh?

kenneth24
12-27-2006, 02:59 PM
Yep and we sure as heck better not draft a QB in the first round. There are some here that would like that, but I feel that is a select few and not a majority.

IMO drafting a QB in the 3rd round or later to develop would be a better way to go with this years QB crop.

real
12-27-2006, 03:00 PM
I am fine with an the QB spot being up for grabs at training camp. All comers get a fair shot and may the best man win!

depends...does she have season tickets on the 50?!? :sarcasm:

I Agree!!!!

I don't want any of the QB's in the first rd. either...

But I wouldn't be opposed to taking one in any rd. after that...

Vinny
12-27-2006, 03:00 PM
Is 8 mil that expensive? Here's a list of 2005 QBs, (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=3) and the cap went up significantly from 2005-2006 and I understand it's doing nearly the same thing next year.yes it is. He is one of the highest paid players on the team. If your team doesn't get impact play out of its highest paid players then the team likely won't do well. The talent around the league is a push for the most part and the highest paid players on your team are supposed to be the kind of players that can carry a team from time to time, make an impact....ie are franchise players. If the best thing people can say about your game is that you manage a game well and get out of the way of the other players so they can win the game you aren't an impact player.

real
12-27-2006, 03:02 PM
Ever hear of a 3rd rounder named Dave Ragone. yeah, he turned out well.
So because Dave Ragone didn't work out for us, we should never draft another QB ?

And as far as the woman analogy, If her offensive linemen weren't good then I would get new offensive linemen.


You get a ....HA!....for that one

kenneth24
12-27-2006, 03:02 PM
Ever hear of a 3rd rounder named Dave Ragone. yeah, he turned out well.

And as far as the woman analogy, If her offensive linemen weren't good then I would get new offensive linemen.

No matter where you pick, you stand the chance of picking a bust or an all-pro anywhere in the draft but the chances are high IMO of drafting another position in early rounds besides QB will make more of an impact on your team. and yes, i've heard of Dan Wilkinson and Kijana Carter!

Second Honeymoon
12-27-2006, 03:03 PM
And this is a grammatically correct sentence? Sure thing, go ahead and call the kettle black please. try to stick to football topics please, you're not getting anywhere otherwise.

arent you one of the guys who said that Carr was the answer? werent you one of the guys who said that Carr was gonna blow up under Kubiak? werent you one of the guys that blamed everyone and everything but David? werent you one of the sheeple who led a parade of lame excuses right on down Main Street? Yeah, I thought so. You were leading the freaking parade. You can continue to think David should get elite QB money, but I feel you are incorrect just like you were last year when you wanted the Texans to keep Carr.....

kenneth24
12-27-2006, 03:05 PM
I Agree!!!!

I don't want any of the QB's in the first rd. either...

But I wouldn't be opposed to taking one in any rd. after that...

How are WE agreeing now??! Wow! We aren't that far apart in our thinking!:shades: :marionaner: :yahoo:

real
12-27-2006, 03:06 PM
yes it is. He is one of the highest paid players on the team. If your team doesn't get impact play out of its highest paid players then the team likely won't do well. The talent around the league is a push for the most part and the highest paid players on your team are supposed to be the kind of players that can carry a team from time to time, make an impact....ie are franchise players. If the best thing people can say about your game is that you manage a game well and get out of the way of the other players so they can win the game you aren't an impact player.

I agree....

It's to the point where David has a good game because he "didn't turn the ball over"....IMO, we should expect more than what we're being given...

SESupergenius
12-27-2006, 03:38 PM
I agree....

It's to the point where David has a good game because he "didn't turn the ball over"....IMO, we should expect more than what we're being given...
Can that not be said about almost every player on this team? i expect more out of Andre Johnson and I certainly expect more out of Dunta Robinson than 3 interceptions in 2 years. Anyone think TJ is worth his paycheck?

tsip
12-27-2006, 05:15 PM
Can that not be said about almost every player on this team? i expect more out of Andre Johnson and I certainly expect more out of Dunta Robinson than 3 interceptions in 2 years. Anyone think TJ is worth his paycheck?

Who else on the team makes as much as Carr this year?...with 5 yrs experience...

infantrycak
12-27-2006, 05:38 PM
Who else on the team makes as much as Carr this year?...with 5 yrs experience...

Your 5 year qualifier eliminates this technically, but AJ is the highest paid player on the team and also will be next year barring a big FA signing. He is also clearly the best on the O.

thunderkyss
12-27-2006, 05:49 PM
Ever hear of a 3rd rounder named Dave Ragone. yeah, he turned out well.

And as far as the woman analogy, If her offensive linemen weren't good then I would get new offensive linemen.

After 5 years..... we've drafted OLmen in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2006...... on avg, 2 per year. 8 guys to fill 5 spots.

We've brought in FAs every year to fix our offensive line.... what maybe 6 in 5 years?? 7?? that's 15 guys in 5 years. 3 new guys a year to fix our offensive line over the last 5 years, and it looks the same every year.

I'm thinking our problem may not be the Offensive line.

Just like a good running back can make an offensive line look good(DD).. a sack proned QB can make an OL look bad(Bledsoe).

infantrycak
12-27-2006, 05:53 PM
After 5 years..... we've drafted OLmen in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2006...... on avg, 2 per year. 8 guys to fill 5 spots.

We've brought in FAs every year to fix our offensive line.... what maybe 6 in 5 years?? 7?? that's 15 guys in 5 years. 3 new guys a year to fix our offensive line over the last 5 years, and it looks the same every year.

I'm thinking our problem may not be the Offensive line.

Just like a good running back can make an offensive line look good(DD).. a sack proned QB can make an OL look bad(Bledsoe).

Fine they tried, but they were incompetent. Pitts is the highest draft pick used on an OLmen--50th. Great we brought in FA's--Riley sure did help out. How about Wade and his bloated contract for his out of the league talent?

Monkeys throw crap on the wall--doesn't mean they are solving a problem.

thunderkyss
12-27-2006, 05:57 PM
Can that not be said about almost every player on this team? i expect more out of Andre Johnson and I certainly expect more out of Dunta Robinson than 3 interceptions in 2 years. Anyone think TJ is worth his paycheck?

And when we go there with all those players, we all pretty much agree.

Andre needs to pick it up.

Dunta needs to play better.

TJ should be worried about his job.

There is no argument there.

But say,"David Carr isn't playing well at all..... the coaches have reduced his role, and our gameplan to near ridiculous levels just to keep him on the field". and we've got 20 page threads of bickering.

Porky
12-27-2006, 06:00 PM
Can that not be said about almost every player on this team? i expect more out of Andre Johnson and I certainly expect more out of Dunta Robinson than 3 interceptions in 2 years. Anyone think TJ is worth his paycheck?

I don't get this constant AJ bashing by some of you. The guy is going to his second Pro-Bowl, and if he had a top notch QB throwing to him, would be on everyone's All-Pro list annually.

As to Drob, he is not as good as he was the first year, but still a very capable physical corner who can play the run with the best, and is above avg as a cover man. He also can't help it if QB's throw another direction.

Lastly, TJ is most certainly not bringing the value that he should, but comparing the value of a DT in regards to the overall team success to the starting QB is like comparing Rosie O'donell to Elle Mcpherson. They are both females, but one does a whole lot more for mankind then the other one does. :stirpot:

thunderkyss
12-27-2006, 06:02 PM
Fine they tried, but they were incompetent. Pitts is the highest draft pick used on an OLmen--50th. Great we brought in FA's--Riley sure did help out. How about Wade and his bloated contract for his out of the league talent?

Monkeys throw crap on the wall--doesn't mean they are solving a problem.

And the Chargers have the best team in the league, and not one first rounder on their offensive line.

Dallas has 3 of 5 starting spots, and all back-up offensive line spots filled by FAs...

So what.

Contracts may be bloated, but that's neither here nor there.. my question is which is easier to believe, 15 players have been brought in to fix our offensive line, and 14 of the 15 sucked.......... or our QB isn't that good.

Take into consideration that our QB coach has to teach this guy how to drop back and scan the field at the same time(which after watching 15 games this year, I think we can all agree that David isn't at that level yet.)......

infantrycak
12-27-2006, 06:09 PM
Contracts may be bloated, but that's neither here nor there.. my question is which is easier to believe, 15 players have been brought in to fix our offensive line, and 14 of the 15 sucked.......... or our QB isn't that good.

One of these days you will realize not everything is an OR.

thunderkyss
12-27-2006, 06:29 PM
One of these days you will realize not everything is an OR.

I'm fine with OR........ I'm fine with And......

and after our new regime found two good OL talents in the third round, I don't think it is necessary to draft a player before the 50th overall, before you can say we tried......... or saying that we failed.

If any team spends a first day pick on a QB, what does that usually say about the incumbant QB??

And this is year 2. When you could use a game breaking running back... say a Chris Brown, or a Justin Fargas..

But instead, we pick a QB on the first day of the draft one year after picking a QB #1 overall...

heck, we drafted 2 QBs in '03.....

Goldeagle
12-27-2006, 07:35 PM
Jebus you guys are still talking about this lol

sorry

Porky
12-27-2006, 08:56 PM
Don't pretend that the gas you threw on the fire, was thought to be water. With the team wining; the Carr haters felt threaten and you worded this post to incite them. When I first saw it I broke out laughing, and you got what you were after... so the sorry isn't worth the ink & paper that it is written on. Too funny. :yahoo:

Why do I always get the sense that I am trying to decipher something off of some old treasure map or the back of the constitution every time I read your posts. Try English sometime.

Or the same post in Caddy talk -

Aye, the bard is on the fly. Take your filthy lingo and the cow will jump over the moon, and humpty dumpty will have a great fall. When the owl strikes the bird, the pastor will call the party to fruition. I will now have a hearty laugh at the expense of the cookoo clock as he strikes 3.

bigTEXan8
12-27-2006, 09:37 PM
the important thing is the texans finally beat the colts...i think that we can all agree that is what's important. and everybody...and i mean every aspect. d, o, special teams. carr made a throw when he had to to win the game. dayne was an absolute stud.

threetoedpete
12-27-2006, 09:54 PM
ummm, wake up. they have been doing that since Day One. maybe it's not all the OL's fault....but I know that would bust your lil' bubble huh?

You guys are something. No matter how many facts are brought to the table you're still stuck on the we didn't get the guy thing and you can't seem to get past it. One more time. Ain't me these people make their living doing this sort of thing.

"Houston – David Carr gets another chance to succeed under Gary Kubiak. On the surface it looks like they made the proper decision to go with Carr. His success rate will be determined by the play of the offensive line, which has been porous for several seasons. We’ll have to wait and see how it develops this year. Will they regret not drafting Reggie Bush? Time will tell on that question as well. "
From our Lads

http://www.ourlads.com/sabo.cfm?ID=052406

You want to cling to that crap and your opinion fine. But you look like a fool. It's gone beyond reason . It's now, and has been for a while an obsession. It's eight months. The water walker does not play here. Ain't going to play here. Let it go.

thunderkyss
12-28-2006, 07:08 AM
"Houston – David Carr gets another chance to succeed under Gary Kubiak. On the surface it looks like they made the proper decision to go with Carr. His success rate will be determined by the play of the offensive line, which has been porous for several seasons. We’ll have to wait and see how it develops this year. Will they regret not drafting Reggie Bush? Time will tell on that question as well. "
From our Lads

http://www.ourlads.com/sabo.cfm?ID=052406

You want to cling to that crap and your opinion fine.

But it's the same thing you are doing.

D'Brick plays in NY.

The same guy who made the decision to keep David Carr also offered contract extensions to two of our offensive starters from a year ago. He left Chester Pitts at Guard, and Weigart at Tackle. We basically started '06 like we did '05. Our guys(either FA pickups or draft picks from rounds 2 through 5 made by CC & DC) Plus one over-the-hill FA(Flanagan)

You think he made a mistake with the people he chose to start on our offensive line..

We think he made a mistake with the person he chose to start behind our offensive line.

Hervoyel
12-28-2006, 09:00 AM
Monkeys throw crap on the wall--doesn't mean they are solving a problem.

And I'm laughing now. So true.

Porky
12-28-2006, 10:41 AM
Porker.. do yourself a favor, and one for me too. Put me your ignore list. I will enjoy the company, and you will have one less thing to cry about. :yahoo:

I don't have anyone on ignore. Believe it or not, I get out a kick out of trying to decipher your cryptic messages.