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View Full Version : Texans should probably focus on the lines first


Sportsfan
12-20-2006, 10:45 AM
I, like many, have been a huge proponent of the Texans making QB and RB top priorities, and i still do.
However, going back to the basics of football, games are won in the trenches. You look at almost every winning team and they all have one thing in common, they all have solid O and D-lines.
I'd like to see them continue to build the O-line and D-line as a priority. When the O-line was healthy earlier in the year, they actually looked pretty good, but still could be much better.

So with that said, what O and D-lineman would you guys look at in the draft or free agency that the Texans could realisticly acquire?

Also, if they somewhat go that route, how do you think they should address the QB/RB situation?

eriadoc
12-20-2006, 11:03 AM
If there is a quality tackle available in the first round that rates out as highly as their pick, they should take him. The early hype seems to be Joe Thomas. If he turns out to be that highly rated, then that should be the team's pick, IMO. Last year, I posted a list of the starting left tackles in the NFL. IIRC, 18 of them were taken in the first round and 17 of those were taken in the top 20. There were another few that were taken in the first round but hadn't made the transition to left tackle for whatever reasons. Only a handful of tackles were drafted later than the second round but were holding down the position handily. Take that for what it's worth. I believe if we can solidify the tackles, the interior line play will improve somewhat by that virtue alone. There may still need to be some changes at guard or center, but those positions have historically been easier to fill in the later rounds or free agency. If the team takes a tackle in the first round and either Spencer or Winston turns up gold, then the line may actually start to be good.

None of this is intended to exonerate the QB position, mind you. Carr has his own set of problems that need to be dealt with one way or another. I am of the opinion that Carr can be a middle-of-the-road QB and win games, if he has a good team around him. Some may say we don't have a good team, therefore we need a QB now, and there's something to that. However, that means we need a QB that can overcome a bad team and win games. Those don't just grow on trees and there are none in free agency this year. So I say draft a QB, sit him for a year to learn Kubiak's offense, and give the rookie linemen time to learn the position. Spencer kind of falls into that category as well as whichever tackle I hope we draft. Winston and Hodgdon will only get better with more playing time, if they have the talent and the coaching.

VY's Crib U Jus payn Rent
12-20-2006, 11:07 AM
They play like they focus on the same "lines" as Miss USA...

stingray
12-20-2006, 11:12 AM
I, like many, have been a huge proponent of the Texans making QB and RB top priorities, and i still do.
However, going back to the basics of football, games are won in the trenches. You look at almost every winning team and they all have one thing in common, they all have solid O and D-lines.
I'd like to see them continue to build the O-line and D-line as a priority. When the O-line was healthy earlier in the year, they actually looked pretty good, but still could be much better.

So with that said, what O and D-lineman would you guys look at in the draft or free agency that the Texans could realisticly acquire?

Also, if they somewhat go that route, how do you think they should address the QB/RB situation?


You don't need to pick an offensive lineman in the first round. Many teams like the Steelers and the Patriots have found solid OL in the second and third rounds. But these teams put an emphasis on finding good OL. The Texans are going to have to do a better job scouting Ol and find the jewels in the draft.

yourfavoritetexan42
12-20-2006, 11:13 AM
In my opinion we should draft Joe Thomas without a doubt in the first. Unless he isn't available and maybe get Levi Jones (or brown maybe his last name...) out of penn state. In the second round draft an interior offensive linemen, if quality is available, if not, then do not reach, draft a safety or an interior defensive linemen.

joedinkle
12-20-2006, 11:25 AM
You don't need to pick an offensive lineman in the first round. Many teams like the Steelers and the Patriots have found solid OL in the second and third rounds. But these teams put an emphasis on finding good OL. The Texans are going to have to do a better job scouting Ol and find the jewels in the draft.

True, but great players come from every round. Wasnt Marques Colston taken just before the last pick in the last round? Everyone's problem with drafting an O-Lineman in the 1st round is that it's not a flashy enough position. It's not a VY or a RB. Get over it. We NEED O line improvement, and if Joe Thomas is available, why not take him?

Mr. White
12-20-2006, 11:26 AM
All-Pro tackles more often than not get drafted in the first round. If he's there, draft Joe Thomas. This is a no-brainer.

El Amigo Invisible
12-20-2006, 11:34 AM
I can not believe I am saying this but I think the D - Line needs alot more work than the O-Line.

real
12-20-2006, 11:35 AM
I don't think the O-line is that bad off...

At the same time I'm not totally against drafting Joe Thomas......

Sportsfan
12-20-2006, 11:45 AM
I can not believe I am saying this but I think the D - Line needs alot more work than the O-Line.

Yes. Williams and Kalu/Weaver on the ends i like, but the interior could be much better IMO. Heck i wouldn't even mind if they picked up another DE w/the potential for domination like Williams.

Trenches
12-20-2006, 12:21 PM
yes, by all means, fix the problem this team has had since day #1: the O line.

I dont care who is there when we draft. If this OT from Wisconsin is rated a high first round pick and we dont take him then we are doomed to repeat our same failures. Who cares if the media doesnt like the pick? can they crucify the team any worse than they did THIS season for passing on Bush and Young?

eriadoc
12-20-2006, 12:44 PM
You don't need to pick an offensive lineman in the first round. Many teams like the Steelers and the Patriots have found solid OL in the second and third rounds. But these teams put an emphasis on finding good OL. The Texans are going to have to do a better job scouting Ol and find the jewels in the draft.

This is not a completely accurate statement, at least with regards to the tackle position. Those two teams have certainly had some success with getting tackles in later rounds, but they are the exception to the rule. Marvel Smith was drafted highly in the second round (Steelers), but the Pats have made do with 3rd rounders.

Prior to this season, at least 18 teams had a tackle that was drafted in the first round. Off the top of my head, the Jets and the Chargers now join that list, though they weren't there last year. I'm not sure which teams, if any, have left that list. Of the remaining teams, most of them were not set at the tackle position. About five teams were in the top half of the league with tackles that were not 1st rounders. At some point, I'll dig it all up again for this year and post it.

None of this means that the Texans shouldn't do their homework and find the jewels of the draft and it also doesn't mean that they can't find a gem in the later rounds (Spencer, we hope). It just suggests that, in the past, the majority of the teams in the NFL have found it necessary to draft talent at the tackle position in the first round. Take it FWIW.

MojoMan
12-20-2006, 12:49 PM
1. Db
2. Dl
3. Ol

El Tejano
12-20-2006, 12:58 PM
I want Peterson but if they go with the Olineman Joe Thomas. I can handle it because I know they want to get better at the LOS.

That is pretty much what Kubes said last year to though.

texansrock
12-20-2006, 01:00 PM
i agree that the o-line is the most important thing on a team. look at edgerrin james. he was a great back when he was with indy, but when he went to arizona (behind a worse offensive line), you have hardly heard of him this year other then when analyists talk about "offseason busts"

stingray
12-20-2006, 01:00 PM
Well, I'll be fine with Either Adrian or Thomas but we are going to have to lose the last two games cause if we win even one of the last two, we will drop to the 7th or 8th pick and those two players will be gone for sure.

Sarg01
12-20-2006, 01:24 PM
Well, I'll be fine with Either Adrian or Thomas but we are going to have to lose the last two games cause if we win even one of the last two, we will drop to the 7th or 8th pick and those two players will be gone for sure.

Beat Indy, Beat Cleveland probably results in pick 9.
Beat Indy, Lose Cleveland probably results in pick 5.
Lose Indy, Beat Cleveland probably results in pick 6.
Lose Indy, Lose Cleveland probably results in pick 4.

There's plenty of options that will be available at pick 9. There's no reason to root for the Texans to lose. OT Sam Baker or RB Marshawn Lynch would likely be there. Strong possibility of either DT Alan Branch or CB Leon Hall. We could probably even trade back a bit and grab an OLB or FS LaRon Landry.

The only players I'm confident won't be around at 9 are QB Quinn (Top 3), WR Calvin Johnson (Top 3), DE Gaines Adams (Top 5), OT Thomas (Top 5) and RB Peterson (Top 8).

prostock101
12-20-2006, 02:04 PM
As bad as the OL is and needs players, if Adrian Peterson is available when we draft I can't believe we'd pass on him. He's a better RB than Bush because he has power and speed.

thunderkyss
12-20-2006, 02:42 PM
True, but great players come from every round. Wasnt Marques Colston taken just before the last pick in the last round? Everyone's problem with drafting an O-Lineman in the 1st round is that it's not a flashy enough position. It's not a VY or a RB. Get over it. We NEED O line improvement, and if Joe Thomas is available, why not take him?

Because we need a free safety or a DT more than a first round LT. I'm so impressed with Winston, and Spencer, that I have no doubt Kubiak will find us good players in the draft, in whatever round.


As far as the QB situation goes, we've got Sage, David, Bradlee & QP..... we don't need to look at a QB in the next two drafts.....

Sage should start next year, David should be ready to go at a moments notice.... from week 9, on, David gets to show us what he's learned. Then we can go on with David Carr as our starter, or without David Carr altogether.

We've got Bradlee Van Pelt, a second year player, & Quinton Porter, a rookie to groom......... we don't need to pick up someone to groom this offseason.

First day, get us a DT, a LB, and a FS/CB...... not necessarily in that order.

jdog
12-20-2006, 02:51 PM
I want Peterson but if they go with the Olineman Joe Thomas. I can handle it because I know they want to get better at the LOS.

That is pretty much what Kubes said last year to though.

I really hope we do not draft Peterson. I think he was a great prospect out of high school, but I am afraid that he is banged up now. He also had problems when the OU line wasn't as good without Brown.

A Texan
12-20-2006, 03:30 PM
If they draft ol's, it will probably be a guard or center since they have 2 early round tackles from last year's draft. But to a degree, they sometimes go for "best player available".

Trenches
12-20-2006, 03:31 PM
As bad as the OL is and needs players, if Adrian Peterson is available when we draft I can't believe we'd pass on him. He's a better RB than Bush because he has power and speed.


It doesnt matter who we have at RB if our line continues to suck.

this football team needs to be broken down to the lowest common denominator. get the lines in order and then go from there. until they get an OL that is serviceable then they are just spinning their wheels.

Sportsfan
12-20-2006, 03:35 PM
It doesnt matter who we have at RB if our line continues to suck.

this football team needs to be broken down to the lowest common denominator. get the lines in order and then go from there. until they get an OL that is serviceable then they are just spinning their wheels.

Yep, if we had an A or even A- O-line, i could see Dayne rushing for 1000+ easily.
But man, to pass on Peterson if he's available, tough decision...

thunderkyss
12-20-2006, 03:35 PM
I really hope we do not draft Peterson. I think he was a great prospect out of high school, but I am afraid that he is banged up now. He also had problems when the OU line wasn't as good without Brown.

I just can't imagine drafting someone who has played a total of what?? 14 games?? in college with a top 5 pick.

Lightning in a bottle..... maybe....

if he turns out to be the next LT, I'd kick myself in the ass....... but I think we need to pass.

He may not be injury prone, but if he comes to Houston, he may end up being...

HOU-TEX
12-20-2006, 03:39 PM
I wouldn't mind picking Peterson as our #1. That said, I've heard once you break your collarbone there's a very good chance it'll continue to break easily. Is there any truth to that? Anyone out there experienced enough to expand on this theory?

jdog
12-20-2006, 04:01 PM
I wouldn't mind picking Peterson as our #1. That said, I've heard once you break your collarbone there's a very good chance it'll continue to break easily. Is there any truth to that? Anyone out there experienced enough to expand on this theory?

Charles Rogers comes to mind.

brewhaus
12-20-2006, 04:34 PM
I don't think the O-line is that bad off...

At the same time I'm not totally against drafting Joe Thomas......

I gotta disagree Tru, I'm thinking the Texans need to focus on their O Line. Even if they aren't drafting for "right now" players, then draft for depth. Get young talent on the team and make the vets work to keep their job at the very least. There is some good talent available in the coming draft and I would like to see the Texans draft for all 3 positions, tackle, guard and center. The team has made some bad judgement in the past with drafting linemen and we, IMO just aren't where we should be after 5 years.

Ole Miss Texan
12-20-2006, 05:31 PM
I feel with whoever we pick with our 1st, the media can spin it however they want.
Thomas-good our oline sucks, he will really make this team better, bad...they need a rb in peterson! plus the fans will be irate!
Peterson-good they need a rb like him real bad, bad...he can't do anything behind an oline like that ...reggie bush could have though,... plus he will probably get injured easily behind their oline.
Branch-good stud dt that will take away mario's double team and really get after peyton..bad why are they wasting a pick on a dt, their secondary is horrid! they should have gone with hall/landry.
trade down-good they really need all the players they can get, they can get a good safety or corner that will really help and with the other pick probably an instant starter as well. bad...what are they thinking. they really need that superior player that will get fans in the seats.
lynch-lynch is just as good if not better than peterson. he fits this offense extremely well. bad...lynch are you kidding me! if they don't get peterson they have to get somebody in their secondary with this pick...kubiak can put any rb back there and he'll do good...look at dayne! he looked like he really was a heisman trophy winner one game.

I would love Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Alan Branch, Laron Landry, Reggie Nelson, leon hall (or whoever they think the best cb for them is possibly with trade down), patrick willis.

I am more interested in how they relate the rest of day one/draft with their first pick