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View Full Version : Trade down


htownfoozball
12-18-2006, 08:59 PM
The board is pretty much split on a multitude of players, but I don't think everyone is looking at the big picture. Just getting 1 player, whether it be AP, Quinn, or Landry, won't make us that much better. There are too many holes, and I think our best bet is to trade down from the 4-6 area to around pick #12 and acquire another 2nd round pick.

The draft is heavy with DB's, and the weakest position is at RB and QB (unless Brohm and Russell declare). We could take either Marshawn Lynch or Brian Brohm, the 2 best available offensive players at #12.

With the 2nd rounders, we would take the best available DB and OL. Brandon Meriweather comes with questions about his character, but there is no denying his talent. Aaron Ross is another option who offers better size and speed over Faggins. He has shown the ability to cover and make big plays. We could take either OT or OG in the 2nd. The best OL available PERIOD.

3rd rounder could be focused on OLB or DT. We lack another playmaker at both positions, and with a weak OLB class, it'd be best to take the best available DT. Brandon Mebane would be great opposite Mario Williams as a pass rush threat to draw away double teams from Mario. He is a bit undersized, but as long as he can get Mario 1 on 1 against an OT, that would be great.

I think trading down gives us the best value for our pick and would help our team much more than taking a premier guy like Peterson or Quinn. Lynch is no slouch either at RB, and even at #12, Landry might be available.

beerlover
12-18-2006, 09:12 PM
I don't have any problem with trading down if the player the Texans would want is already off the board, who that will be is yet to be determined (last year it went down to the day before the draft before we knew). Also until the underclassman deadline passes then we will not know the whole picture, followed by free agency where you know the Texans will attempt to address needs.

Blu
12-18-2006, 09:30 PM
YES..

For the betterment of the team and franchise.











Atleast Casserly won't be involved.
:yes:

TheOgre
12-19-2006, 08:09 AM
This team has a lot of needs, but I would prefer we stay put and add a top-notch player in a need position (OT, RB, QB, CB, FS, SLB). I'd prefer to go offense, but this team seems hellbent on building a defense first.

jerek
12-19-2006, 09:20 AM
Honestly after watching tape on some of the players I think we are best served if we end up in the 5-8 range (performance vs pay). As long as Cleveland is not ahead of us we have a great possibility of getting AP. He would improve our overall offense by giving us a real running back, not a utility player like R.Bush is. AP has the ability to gain another 5-10lbs maybe more and not lose any speed. He runs similar to Tomlinson and has all the tools that could make him as good as C. Portis in our system. Other than AP, Leon Hall is a stud, not worth a top 5 pick, but he is right now the class of the Corners. If AP is off the board at our pick then I definately look to trade down unless I think I will miss on Leon Hall. Now what would throw a wrench in my thought would be one thing. If by some strange act of craziness AP is gone and CJ is sitting there I would likely pass on Hall for a freak WR like that. It would greatly piss E. Moulds off, but I can imagine the three wide sets.

Errant Hothy
12-19-2006, 09:46 AM
Trading down is always easier said then done, you have to have a partner who has either palyers or picks you feel like will enable us to get players you still feel are worth the same value as those you could have gotten if you had stayed at your original pick.

Meloy
12-19-2006, 02:49 PM
I think we would end up like 2006 draft with no one willing to trade. I take thomas if avail, if not, take AP as IMO one will be there. In 2nd, I'd go for best LT if we didn't get Thomas. If Thomas in 1st, I'd go best CB in 2nd. In 3rd, Kolb as most seem to think he won't be at 4th where I slotted him earlier. Kolb would take some heat off McNair for not taking VY. In 4th best DT or LB. in 5th reverse. I'd trade 6 & 7 for picks following year. If we are convinced we will go hard after Nate Clemmons, he'd start and CB in second would add depth. Faggins is a nickle cb. If Carr is to be gone, I'd try to trade Carr and next season's 1st and third to Oakland this off season for Raiders 1st in 2008 (Colt McCoy?). Quinn, Troy Smith and LSU QB should be selected in first round this draft and take 3 more teams out of hunt for QB in 08. Then I'd pray hard that McCOy comes out.

beerlover
12-19-2006, 05:18 PM
I think we would end up like 2006 draft with no one willing to trade. I take thomas if avail, if not, take AP as IMO one will be there. In 2nd, I'd go for best LT if we didn't get Thomas. If Thomas in 1st, I'd go best CB in 2nd. In 3rd, Kolb as most seem to think he won't be at 4th where I slotted him earlier. Kolb would take some heat off McNair for not taking VY. In 4th best DT or LB. in 5th reverse. I'd trade 6 & 7 for picks following year. If we are convinced we will go hard after Nate Clemmons, he'd start and CB in second would add depth. Faggins is a nickle cb. If Carr is to be gone, I'd try to trade Carr and next season's 1st and third to Oakland this off season for Raiders 1st in 2008 (Colt McCoy?). Quinn, Troy Smith and LSU QB should be selected in first round this draft and take 3 more teams out of hunt for QB in 08. Then I'd pray hard that McCOy comes out.

so let me get this straight, you want to trade David Carr to Oakland for their #1 this year (2007) giving them the Texans 2008 #1 draft pick & 3rd rd. pick? this makes the Phillip Buchanon trade pale in comparison :brickwall

YoungTexanFan
12-19-2006, 06:51 PM
I think we would end up like 2006 draft with no one willing to trade. I take thomas if avail, if not, take AP as IMO one will be there. In 2nd, I'd go for best LT if we didn't get Thomas. If Thomas in 1st, I'd go best CB in 2nd. In 3rd, Kolb as most seem to think he won't be at 4th where I slotted him earlier. Kolb would take some heat off McNair for not taking VY. In 4th best DT or LB. in 5th reverse. I'd trade 6 & 7 for picks following year. If we are convinced we will go hard after Nate Clemmons, he'd start and CB in second would add depth. Faggins is a nickle cb. If Carr is to be gone, I'd try to trade Carr and next season's 1st and third to Oakland this off season for Raiders 1st in 2008 (Colt McCoy?). Quinn, Troy Smith and LSU QB should be selected in first round this draft and take 3 more teams out of hunt for QB in 08. Then I'd pray hard that McCOy comes out.

woah there partner. I don't mind trading Carr off and playing a vet next year, but I'm not sending two first day picks for someone to take a former #1 overall and a 5 year NFL starter with top physical tools.

TexansSeminole
12-19-2006, 06:54 PM
The board is pretty much split on a multitude of players, but I don't think everyone is looking at the big picture. Just getting 1 player, whether it be AP, Quinn, or Landry, won't make us that much better. There are too many holes, and I think our best bet is to trade down from the 4-6 area to around pick #12 and acquire another 2nd round pick.

The draft is heavy with DB's, and the weakest position is at RB and QB (unless Brohm and Russell declare). We could take either Marshawn Lynch or Brian Brohm, the 2 best available offensive players at #12.

With the 2nd rounders, we would take the best available DB and OL. Brandon Meriweather comes with questions about his character, but there is no denying his talent. Aaron Ross is another option who offers better size and speed over Faggins. He has shown the ability to cover and make big plays. We could take either OT or OG in the 2nd. The best OL available PERIOD.

3rd rounder could be focused on OLB or DT. We lack another playmaker at both positions, and with a weak OLB class, it'd be best to take the best available DT. Brandon Mebane would be great opposite Mario Williams as a pass rush threat to draw away double teams from Mario. He is a bit undersized, but as long as he can get Mario 1 on 1 against an OT, that would be great.

I think trading down gives us the best value for our pick and would help our team much more than taking a premier guy like Peterson or Quinn. Lynch is no slouch either at RB, and even at #12, Landry might be available.

Actually getting a FS with the talent of a Reggie Nelson or a LaRon Landry would make us alot better on defense. The absence of good safety play from the Texans has made you forget how important it is for a defense to play well consistantly.

YoungTexanFan
12-19-2006, 07:00 PM
These are the only guys I fell the Texans should be considering as of right now:

Russell
Thomas
Gaither
Cason
Nelson
Landry
Revis
Branch

I do not feel that we should be looking at anyone else right now.

TexansSeminole
12-19-2006, 07:03 PM
These are the only guys I fell the Texans should be considering as of right now:

Russell
Thomas
Gaither
Cason
Nelson
Landry
Revis
Branch

I do not feel that we should be looking at anyone else right now.

Honestly I believe we should be looking at everyone. There is still more to learn about the players that still have games to play and workouts to hold.

Honoring Earl 34
12-19-2006, 07:06 PM
Lets really go out there ... we pick #4 and Brady, Thomas , AP, are gone . New England calls and says we'll give you both our # 1 picks plus our 3rd round pick for the right to Calvin Johnson ... do you take it ?

Texian
12-19-2006, 07:18 PM
THe defense is only a couple of players from being good. I look for Kubiak & Smith to stay the course and improve the defense. Landry looks like a solid #1 pick and a OLB or CB is stacking up as a good 2nd pick.

Bubbajwp
12-19-2006, 07:29 PM
Lets really go out there ... we pick #4 and Brady, Thomas , AP, are gone . New England calls and says we'll give you both our # 1 picks plus our 3rd round pick for the right to Calvin Johnson ... do you take it ?

I really dont think that C Johnson is coming out but if he does he is going top 3. I kinda think that the Pats are going to trade up for D Jarrett. They wouldnt have to give up as much to get him.

Bubbajwp
12-19-2006, 07:31 PM
I think we would end up like 2006 draft with no one willing to trade. I take thomas if avail, if not, take AP as IMO one will be there. In 2nd, I'd go for best LT if we didn't get Thomas. If Thomas in 1st, I'd go best CB in 2nd. In 3rd, Kolb as most seem to think he won't be at 4th where I slotted him earlier. Kolb would take some heat off McNair for not taking VY. In 4th best DT or LB. in 5th reverse. I'd trade 6 & 7 for picks following year. If we are convinced we will go hard after Nate Clemmons, he'd start and CB in second would add depth. Faggins is a nickle cb. If Carr is to be gone, I'd try to trade Carr and next season's 1st and third to Oakland this off season for Raiders 1st in 2008 (Colt McCoy?). Quinn, Troy Smith and LSU QB should be selected in first round this draft and take 3 more teams out of hunt for QB in 08. Then I'd pray hard that McCOy comes out.

The raiders have a outstanding defense. With a few FA additions to there offense they wont have the first pick in next years draft.

YoungTexanFan
12-19-2006, 07:31 PM
Lets really go out there ... we pick #4 and Brady, Thomas , AP, are gone . New England calls and says we'll give you both our # 1 picks plus our 3rd round pick for the right to Calvin Johnson ... do you take it ?

Yes. I think that two later first rounders and an extra 3rd rounder allow us and actually force us to draft what we need rather than the flash player at the top. I think if we did this, we could really look at a lot more options that will help our team more.

Texian
12-19-2006, 07:33 PM
Lets really go out there ... we pick #4 and Brady, Thomas , AP, are gone . New England calls and says we'll give you both our # 1 picks plus our 3rd round pick for the right to Calvin Johnson ... do you take it ?

He is the closest thing to a sure thing out there and most likely the only offensive player I would take ahead of the defense.

threetoedpete
12-19-2006, 11:25 PM
Lets really go out there ... we pick #4 and Brady, Thomas , AP, are gone . New England calls and says we'll give you both our # 1 picks plus our 3rd round pick for the right to Calvin Johnson ... do you take it ?

No but if they give me some move up ammo for the '08 draft and a shot at McFaddin or Rice...I'd have to think about it. Their low two ones plus their '08 and a third in '07...yeah I'd be happy to accomodate the wolf.

threetoedpete
12-19-2006, 11:30 PM
I really dont think that C Johnson is coming out but if he does he is going top 3. I kinda think that the Pats are going to trade up for D Jarrett. They wouldnt have to give up as much to get him.

So who is the QB waiting in the wings at Geogia Tech. and what makes him worth Calvin missing out on a ten million dollar pay day ? Inquiring minds want to know. Mom may want the sheep skin. But ten mill sends a lot of family members to college for a very, very, very long time. If he does go back I hope they get the guy some heavy duty insurance.

NEROtheZERO
12-19-2006, 11:41 PM
So who is the QB waiting in the wings at Geogia Tech. and what makes him worth Calvin missing out on a ten million dollar pay day ? Inquiring minds want to know. Mom may want the sheep skin. But ten mill sends a lot of family members to college for a very, very, very long time. If he does go back I hope they get the guy some heavy duty insurance.

It happens to be his roommate at the moment.

I don't expect him to stay but don't be suprised if he does.

Meloy
12-20-2006, 04:44 PM
so let me get this straight, you want to trade David Carr to Oakland for their #1 this year (2007) giving them the Texans 2008 #1 draft pick & 3rd rd. pick? this makes the Phillip Buchanon trade pale in comparison :brickwall Put the beer down and back away slowly. Now look at what you high lighted in my post. Does it say Oakland's first round in 07 or does it say 2008? My post reads we swap places in first round in 08. Example. If Oakland has 5th pick in 08 and we have 8th, it will be reversed. To get them to do that we got to give them something they want or need. They can use Carr. A 3rd round from us would get them to agree and I think is historically what is added for sugar when first round selections are traded. I think the Raiders will have a worst record than Texans again in 08. Regardless of who is our QB, thus the reason for the trade and a shot @ McCoy.:hides:

mexican_texan
12-20-2006, 04:51 PM
With our limited cap space this year, we need to adress our needs through the draft. I'm all for trading down and picking up some picks.

Meloy
12-20-2006, 05:01 PM
woah there partner. I don't mind trading Carr off and playing a vet next year, but I'm not sending two first day picks for someone to take a former #1 overall and a 5 year NFL starter with top physical tools.YTF,my thought is a lot of fans want Carr gone (I don't) and writers and radio/tv guys say he will be gone. What round he was selected in has nothing to do with his worth now. Most people who trumpet that Carr should go say we will be lucky to get a 3rd round. Charlie Pallilo told me he doubted Carr would bring that. So, if Carr is to be traded and we can get a higher first round in 2008 (I think Oakland will be no lower than 4th) why not give up DC and a third round in 2008 to move up to maybe 2nd, 3rd or 4th pick? Remember, we tried to work a deal to trade down in 2006 and no one would trade. To get a higher selection, we have to give up a package. If you think what I suggested is too much,okay; but consider. We select Thomas with 2007 first round, sign Nate Clemmons CB in F/A and a stud LB to replace Orr in 2nd. This allows our safeties to have less pressure. In 3rd we select Kolb @ QB to train for a year. In 4th we take a DT. Or another scenario, Spencer is coming back to LT: we get AP in first round then follow above scenario. With my trade in 2008, we draft McCoy in first (oakland) and still have 2nd round, 4th and 5th to draft best player avail and add another Free Agent or 2. We have UT McCoy and Kolb UH fighting to start. Would that bring out any fans?

Meloy
12-20-2006, 05:05 PM
Lets really go out there ... we pick #4 and Brady, Thomas , AP, are gone . New England calls and says we'll give you both our # 1 picks plus our 3rd round pick for the right to Calvin Johnson ... do you take it ?Your ? is do we trade a 4th pick in first for two very low first round selection and pick up a third round? I don't think I'd do that deal. Again, we have to make a statement with that 4th pick that will really help turn Texans around. Personally, I think AP or Thomas will be there @ 4.:stirpot:

Ole Miss Texan
12-20-2006, 05:11 PM
McCoy and Kolb fighting for they starting job sounds like a great idea, in theory, i'd be for it...BUT... i'd like to know how they would fit our system..transition into the nfl...or are both those guys destined to be nfl backups? something the scouts will have to and probably are looking at to give their best guestimate.

I'd hate to spend a 1st and 3rd round draft pick on 2 back up qb's..but i really don't know much about them.

Meloy
12-20-2006, 05:25 PM
McCoy and Kolb fighting for they starting job sounds like a great idea, in theory, i'd be for it...BUT... i'd like to know how they would fit our system..transition into the nfl...or are both those guys destined to be nfl backups? something the scouts will have to and probably are looking at to give their best guestimate.

I'd hate to spend a 1st and 3rd round draft pick on 2 back up qb's..but i really don't know much about them.
Both had excellent seasons with UH going to a Bowl. Yes, weaker adversaries than Texas but Kolb showed excellent skills in my opinion. He is not a high round pick but could be a strong back up for a cheap price. McCoy after another great year could be the guy.

Mariotexan
12-21-2006, 10:05 AM
Can you explain what limited cap space is? If we cut players, like T. Johnson, Mckinney, ect. would that free up space?

infantrycak
12-21-2006, 10:15 AM
Can you explain what limited cap space is? If we cut players, like T. Johnson, Mckinney, ect. would that free up space?

Each year a cap amount is determined as a percentage of pooled league revenues. Next year it is projected to be about $109 mil. The big issue on cap management is proration of bonuses. Say a player signs a 5 year deal with a $10 mil signing bonus and then salaries of $5 mil per year--a good CB type contract. The team is allowed (but doesn't have to) prorate the signing bonus over the life of the contract, i.e. $2 mil per year. So the contract is set up to have a cap hit of $2 mil + $5 mil or $7 mil per year if he plays it out. Unfortunately dude is a bust and after a year the team decides to cut him. They had projected $7 mil for him to play year 2 but now they have to account for the prorated money which has never hit the cap yet (the salary or unpaid portion of the contract is not guaranteed and just goes away)--they have only accounted for $2 mil so far leaving $8 mil to go on the cap. So the net effect of cutting him is placing $8 mil in dead money on the cap--a cap expense (not real money because it has already been spent in year 1) of $1 mil on top of the $7 mil to have him play. After year 2 it would be $6 mil in dead money vs $7 mil to play him so the cap savings would be $1 mil but the $6 mil in dead money still sucks up room under the cap.

Battle Red Flash
12-22-2006, 01:11 PM
I think trading down gives us the best value for our pick and would help our team much more than taking a premier guy like Peterson or Quinn. Lynch is no slouch either at RB, and even at #12, Landry might be available.

Yes! Trade back! Take and O-lineman, and a D-lineman, then CB, FS, LB.
Kubes started building a foundation with Mario, Spencer and Winston, now keep it up.

kastofsna
12-22-2006, 02:04 PM
every year the fans of a team in the top 10 begs to trade down. it's funny. rarely happens.

basically you'd have to have a guy sitting there where you draft that another team is in LOVE with. see: jets and dewayne robertson.

Battle Red Flash
12-22-2006, 04:17 PM
every year the fans of a team in the top 10 begs to trade down. it's funny. rarely happens.

basically you'd have to have a guy sitting there where you draft that another team is in LOVE with. see: jets and dewayne robertson.

And it does happen. See Texans two years ago. We traded back and got Travis Johnson and another pick. But now, without Casserly, we might get a good player.