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Buffi2
12-14-2006, 09:51 PM
I don't know if this has been posted- There is a bit more, but this is the high points.

link: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/sports/16241245.htm

McNair said after watching Thursday's practice that he's as frustrated as anyone, but insists the team is close to a "monumental" breakthrough, as early as next season.

"If I didn't feel we were on the right track, I'd be a lot more concerned about it," he said........McNair still believes in Carr and said all he needs is playmakers around him.

McNair on the future of the Texans: "We're going to get it right. I have no doubt in my mind, we're going to win. We're going to be a big-time winner. And it's not going to be that long."

Vinny
12-14-2006, 09:59 PM
I was shocked nobody was talking about it...it was all over sports radio earlier. He took a shot at VY by saying that one head coach refused to come if they drafted him supposedly...so it looks like we will have Carr here for 2007.

TexansFanatic
12-14-2006, 09:59 PM
McNair still believes in Carr and said all he needs is playmakers around him.

McFly? Hello?

ArlingtonTexan
12-14-2006, 10:00 PM
Segments of this interview was played on local radio (790), but no posting so thank you.

kfranco_utexas
12-14-2006, 10:01 PM
I like Bob, I really do. Hopefully this becomes a winning organization. :snobord:

kfranco_utexas
12-14-2006, 10:02 PM
I was shocked nobody was talking about it...it was all over sports radio earlier. He took a shot at VY by saying that one head coach refused to come if they drafted him supposedly...so it looks like we will have Carr here for 2007.

Please, no carr. Carr got into a severe wreck and needs to be traded in for a new hummer.:snobord:

TexansFanatic
12-14-2006, 10:05 PM
Are we going to find out sometime down the road that Carr is McNair's bastard child?

Vinny
12-14-2006, 10:05 PM
Please, no carr. Carr got into a severe wreck and needs to be traded in for a new hummer.:snobord:When he interviewd the coaches to replace Capers he had already picked up Carr's option so I'm sure that anyone who wanted that job was going to tell McNair they could fix his Carr. Today McNair was 100% behind Carr and their current plan so I'm convinced we will roll him out next year once again. We better start getting used to that idea.

johndoe
12-14-2006, 10:05 PM
hey, off the subject but what is the date of this years draft???? thanks

Honoring Earl 34
12-14-2006, 10:06 PM
Bob said he interviewed seven coaching canidates and all said Carr could get them to a SB . In fact one guy said that if McNair was going to cut Carr and draft VY ... well he did'nt want the job .

He blamed the previous staff for some errors in building the team . He said that they screwed up by getting rid of Sharper and Glenn because they provided leadership .

utahmark
12-14-2006, 10:06 PM
carr is as good as any free agent we are gonna bring in. some people want a change just for a change. if we gonna bring in a free agent to groom a rookie we might draft this year might as well just keep carr and let him do the grooming.

TexansFanatic
12-14-2006, 10:08 PM
carr is as good as any free agent we are gonna bring in. some people want a change just for a change. if we gonna bring in a free agent to groom a rookie we might draft this year might as well just keep carr and let him do the grooming.

You want Carr grooming another QB? I can see it now: "OK, after you snap the ball, check down right away and dump it off to your safety valve..."

Honoring Earl 34
12-14-2006, 10:08 PM
Are we talking hair or being a QB .

Vinny
12-14-2006, 10:08 PM
Bob said he interviewed seven coaching canidates and all said Carr could get them to a SB . In fact one guy said that if McNair was going to cut Carr and draft VY ... well he did'nt want the job .

He blamed the previous staff for some errors in building the team . He said that they screwed up by getting rid of Sharper and Glenn because they provided leadership .
oh yeah, and he also said that he thought it was a mistake to not include players over 30 on the first team.

TexansFanatic
12-14-2006, 10:10 PM
Are we talking hair or being a QB .

Nice!

kfranco_utexas
12-14-2006, 10:10 PM
When he interviewd the coaches to replace Capers he had already picked up Carr's option so I'm sure that anyone who wanted that job was going to tell McNair they could fix his Carr.

I would have done the same thing to guarantee me the job. Who wouldnt?!

Bob wanted someone to tell him that he would fix Carr and make him into a badass qb. It clearly is not working and it won't happen here. imo.

axman40
12-14-2006, 10:11 PM
I was shocked nobody was talking about it...it was all over sports radio earlier. He took a shot at VY by saying that one head coach refused to come if they drafted him supposedly...so it looks like we will have Carr here for 2007.
Ah ha now I know what to get Mr. McNair for Christmas, a subscription to High Times mag because whatever he is smoking has got to be primo!

:tease:

utahmark
12-14-2006, 10:12 PM
You want Carr grooming another QB? I can see it now: "OK, after you snap the ball, check down right away and dump it off to your safety valve..."


now that is pretty funny. ill give you some rep on that.

nunusguy
12-14-2006, 10:16 PM
Bob said he interviewed seven coaching canidates and all said Carr could get them to a SB . In fact one guy said that if McNair was going to cut Carr and draft VY ... well he did'nt want the job .
.
Even VYs HC Jeff Fisher didn't want him, as his preference was fellow USC alum Leinert.
But the Budster saw VYs potential and hung in there for his guy.
I think the Texans should retain the Budsters services to council them in the
upcoming 2007 NFL college Draft.

dantem
12-14-2006, 10:18 PM
hmmm

hollywood_texan
12-14-2006, 10:20 PM
I have said over and over that the decision to keep Carr was McNair's.

As for one candidate that said he wouldn't take the job if Carr was cut and Young was drafted, maybe it was Carr's college coach that said that because he was interviewed.

I think this makes it evidently clear that McNair made his decision about Carr before he interviewed candidates.

Bottom line from this, by midway through next season which should see some amazing things.

Hey McNair, that is 12 games and you just boxed yourself in!

Honoring Earl 34
12-14-2006, 10:22 PM
Ah ha now I know what to get Mr. McNair for Christmas, a subscription to High Times mag because whatever he is smoking has got to be primo!

:tease:

I hope he sells it at the Texans games next year . It may make the offense seem better plus the nacho sells will go through the roof .

Honoring Earl 34
12-14-2006, 10:24 PM
I have said over and over that the decision to keep Carr was McNair's.

As for one candidate that said he wouldn't take the job if Carr was cut and Young was drafted, maybe it was Carr's college coach that said that because he was interviewed.

I think this makes it evidently clear that McNair made his decision about Carr before he interviewed candidates.

Bottom line from this, by midway through next season which should see some amazing things.

Hey McNair, that is 12 games and you just boxed yourself in!

We will be chronic basement dwellers if he runs his team that way .

TexasJedi
12-14-2006, 10:26 PM
I thought it was a pretty candid thing to do on Mr. McNair's part. The next best thing to the ridiculous demand for a public apology by the Texans. And I don't think he was taking a shot at VY by stating that a candidate said he did not want the job if the Texans took VY, just conveying what was said to him personally. The question should be, who was that candidate? Cam Cameron? Obviously whoever it was underestimated Vince.

It definitely sounds like Carr is here to stay. I like David and think he can be what the Texans need, but no matter who is taking snaps Kubiak needs to continue what he started last offseason and fix the line. The offense would look much better, IMO, with an improved line and AP in a Texans jersey.

dantem
12-14-2006, 10:28 PM
Am I the only one on this board who thinks Dvid Carr can get the job done? Come on people it could be worse, it could be ... I don't know, maybe...Gif Nielson... or... or ... Buckey Richardson.

kfranco_utexas
12-14-2006, 10:34 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/061214&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1

hot pickle
12-14-2006, 10:37 PM
I don't know if this has been posted- There is a bit more, but this is the high points.

link: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/sports/16241245.htm

McNair said after watching Thursday's practice that he's as frustrated as anyone, but insists the team is close to a "monumental" breakthrough, as early as next season.

"If I didn't feel we were on the right track, I'd be a lot more concerned about it," he said........McNair still believes in Carr and said all he needs is playmakers around him.

McNair on the future of the Texans: "We're going to get it right. I have no doubt in my mind, we're going to win. We're going to be a big-time winner. And it's not going to be that long."


i like his positive attitude, now do somethin about it mr. mcnair i know you got all that paper layin around

dantem
12-14-2006, 10:39 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/061214&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1

Was there something about Bob McNair in here?

Or the Texans for that matter.

Why did you post this?

ArlingtonTexan
12-14-2006, 10:41 PM
When he interviewd the coaches to replace Capers he had already picked up Carr's option so I'm sure that anyone who wanted that job was going to tell McNair they could fix his Carr. Today McNair was 100% behind Carr and their current plan so I'm convinced we will roll him out next year once again. We better start getting used to that idea.


I would have liked to seen how that question was asked. If you build a great defense, superior OL, and solid skill position players then of course Carr can "lead" you to a Superbowl as can about 50 guys in the league.

If that question was "what do you think of David Carr as a QB?", then that leads to a better answer. I hope if anything McNair honestly believes in Carr's talent versus having a personal affinity for Carr or not be willing to admit that all of his original major choices (GM, Coach, and QB) were incorrect.

TexansLucky13
12-14-2006, 10:43 PM
Yippeee

bad
12-14-2006, 10:43 PM
I don't know if this has been posted- There is a bit more, but this is the high points.

link: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/sports/16241245.htm

McNair said after watching Thursday's practice that he's as frustrated as anyone, but insists the team is close to a "monumental" breakthrough, as early as next season.

"If I didn't feel we were on the right track, I'd be a lot more concerned about it," he said........McNair still believes in Carr and said all he needs is playmakers around him."
Well Bob, that's all well and good. Everyone needs playmakers around them. Jordan needed Pippen. Manning needed Harrison. Laurel needed Hardy.

Here's a thought. Try putting some playmakers around him. Open your wallet during FA. Work a trade down in the first round of the draft so we don't overpay our new playmaking RB, CB, FS or Big Ugly.

Draft a QB just in case Carr turns out to be beyond salvage. I hear that guy from LSU is pretty good and might declare early.

If you can't trade down and there is a potential mega-playmaker on the board, don't be afraid to draft him because he might be a bust. They all might be busts.

Draft not with fear, but with avarice.

Calvin Johnson or Dwayne Jarrett lined up across from Andre Johnson is a bad thing only for the other guys.

Find out which players New England covets and steal them out from under Belichick's nose.

Find out which players Detroit covets and avoid them like the plague.

Understand that injuries happen - don't be afraid to draft for depth in the latter rounds.

Draft an OG or C that plays mean and nasty. I hear that Center from Fresno State talks about people's moms AFTER he's knocked 'em down. You gotta know Belichick hears this also.

If 99% of league sources point to one guy as the obvious pick, consider that they might be correct in their consensus.

Above all, don't listen to draft advice from fans typing on messageboards unless their handle is Roy Pickett.



Sincerely,

The Ghost Of NFL Drafts past.

Texas_Thrill
12-14-2006, 10:48 PM
Is it me or does it sound like they are WAAAAAY to close for employer and employee? Golfing buddies perhaps?

TEXANRED
12-14-2006, 10:51 PM
so it looks like we will have Carr here for 2007.

:gun:

beerlover
12-14-2006, 10:55 PM
no surprise. playmakers around him? that would be a hint the Texans 1st pick will be AP :stirpot:

hot pickle
12-14-2006, 10:57 PM
:gun:

hahahahahahah

dantem
12-14-2006, 10:59 PM
This is good news, We can move on with our lives,

utahmark
12-14-2006, 11:11 PM
When he interviewd the coaches to replace Capers he had already picked up Carr's option so I'm sure that anyone who wanted that job was going to tell McNair they could fix his Carr. Today McNair was 100% behind Carr and their current plan so I'm convinced we will roll him out next year once again. We better start getting used to that idea.

i predicted it a few days ago http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=32210. still you and carrs play have made me relize he probably wont be as good as i thought he could be. i still think he can be as good as the rest of the team around him. give him a line and he can win games. give him a sb quality team and i believe he will be a sb quality qb but as we have seen give him a sub par team and he is sub par. he cant make a bad team better.

Grid
12-14-2006, 11:13 PM
Well, ill back up McNair if he says Carr can do it.. cause i know if he is saying it, then Kubiak and the staff is saying it.

Id much prefer a rookie QB to groom though.

Johnny Utah
12-14-2006, 11:15 PM
If Carr is back as the starting QB next season I'm done with the Texans. I would be shocked by this level of incompetence.

Nighthawk
12-14-2006, 11:31 PM
You want Carr grooming another QB? I can see it now: "OK, after you snap the ball, check down right away and dump it off to your safety valve..."


You forgot the fall down or fumble option.

Nighthawk
12-14-2006, 11:35 PM
I don't know if this has been posted- There is a bit more, but this is the high points.

link: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/sports/16241245.htm

McNair said after watching Thursday's practice that he's as frustrated as anyone, but insists the team is close to a "monumental" breakthrough, as early as next season.

"If I didn't feel we were on the right track, I'd be a lot more concerned about it," he said........McNair still believes in Carr and said all he needs is playmakers around him.

McNair on the future of the Texans: "We're going to get it right. I have no doubt in my mind, we're going to win. We're going to be a big-time winner. And it's not going to be that long."


I think he'd better shut up or he's going to lose A LOT of fans. As far as I can tell a high percentage of fans expect and demand Carr be replaced in the off season.

dantem
12-14-2006, 11:46 PM
I think he'd better shut up or he's going to lose A LOT of fans. As far as I can tell a high percentage of fans expect and demand Carr be replaced in the off season.

Not me, I expect and demand that they keep him and not waste a pick on an unproven college player, or pick up a veteran that has been thrown away by another team, there are other positions where the money would be better spent.

Like the O-Line, or someone who can cover downfield.

Besides, I'll bet he knows that every fan lost makes room for a new one. maybe the new ones will actually root for the team instead of booing them on Sundays. He has plenty of customers who don't hate DC, why cater to the hater?

utahmark
12-14-2006, 11:53 PM
I think he'd better shut up or he's going to lose A LOT of fans. As far as I can tell a high percentage of fans expect and demand Carr be replaced in the off season.


fans or a lot like cows. if he is right and we start winning we will have more fans than we want.

VY's Crib U Jus payn Rent
12-14-2006, 11:59 PM
I don't know if this has been posted- There is a bit more, but this is the high points.

link: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/sports/16241245.htm

McNair said after watching Thursday's practice that he's as frustrated as anyone, but insists the team is close to a "monumental" breakthrough, as early as next season.

"If I didn't feel we were on the right track, I'd be a lot more concerned about it," he said........McNair still believes in Carr and said all he needs is playmakers around him.

McNair on the future of the Texans: "We're going to get it right. I have no doubt in my mind, we're going to win. We're going to be a big-time winner. And it's not going to be that long."

Boob "Jim Jones" McNair - Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid get your Kool-Aid right here! The guy is a pathetic joke just like his team!

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 12:11 AM
I don't know if this has been posted- There is a bit more, but this is the high points.

link: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/sports/16241245.htm

McNair said after watching Thursday's practice that he's as frustrated as anyone, but insists the team is close to a "monumental" breakthrough, as early as next season.

"If I didn't feel we were on the right track, I'd be a lot more concerned about it," he said........McNair still believes in Carr and said all he needs is playmakers around him.

McNair on the future of the Texans: "We're going to get it right. I have no doubt in my mind, we're going to win. We're going to be a big-time winner. And it's not going to be that long."


Tell me this isn't true. This is exactly the OPPOSITE of what I wanted to hear from our owner. He should be proud, in only 5 years of decisions he has made himself and our team a national joke. He's already burned through all the public goodwill he had in the bank when he delivered us an NFL team out of nowhere.

But whatever, I am resigned to Carr being back next year. hip hip hooray. im gonna go get sick now....

thunderkyss
12-15-2006, 12:15 AM
When he interviewd the coaches to replace Capers he had already picked up Carr's option so I'm sure that anyone who wanted that job was going to tell McNair they could fix his Carr. Today McNair was 100% behind Carr and their current plan so I'm convinced we will roll him out next year once again. We better start getting used to that idea.

I thought he was interviewing the day after our last game......... & decided on Kubiak before the AFC Championship game........ we had to wait for the Broncos to lose, so we could officially award the job to Kubiak.

Carr's option wasn't picked up till after the SuperBowl...... when the FA period started I think.

I agree......... McNair's mind was made up, but the Texans didn't publicly announce that we picked up Carr's option till after he interviewed for the job. CoachK only had to decide if we'd go 2 or 3 years.....

SLO Texan
12-15-2006, 12:17 AM
I'm just glad he let it be known that Carr's sticking around so everyone can shut up about who's going to replace him.

I'm down for us to draft someone that Kubiak can groom to take over after next season.

But could all the Carr haters quit hating until the off season at least.:ok:

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 12:21 AM
I thought he was interviewing the day after our last game......... & decided on Kubiak before the AFC Championship game........ we had to wait for the Broncos to lose, so we could officially award the job to Kubiak.

Carr's option wasn't picked up till after the SuperBowl...... when the FA period started I think.

I agree......... McNair's mind was made up, but the Texans didn't publicly announce that we picked up Carr's option till after he interviewed for the job. CoachK only had to decide if we'd go 2 or 3 years.....

Everyone knows that working with Carr was part and parcel of accepting the job in Houston.
McNair is just trying to put a spin on everything and act like everything is ok. this whole thing is circling the drain.

Double Barrel
12-15-2006, 12:28 AM
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

He is speaking about Texans fans, no doubt about it. :crazy::texflag::crazy: speaking as a fan myself

utahmark
12-15-2006, 12:29 AM
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

He is speaking about Texans fans, no doubt about it. :crazy::texflag::crazy: speaking as a fan myself

we are just a bunch of old oiler fans..... what do you expect.

SLO Texan
12-15-2006, 12:32 AM
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

He is speaking about Texans fans, no doubt about it. :crazy::texflag::crazy: speaking as a fan myself

Yeah, having one of the worst O - lines in the league year in and year out and expecting to have a good offense is CRAZY!!!

Go get us some Freakin Lineman McNair!!!!!

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 12:34 AM
we are just a bunch of old oiler fans..... what do you expect.

To be honest, I didn't expect this.....

Aztequila
12-15-2006, 12:40 AM
i predicted it a few days ago http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=32210. still you and carrs play have made me relize he probably wont be as good as i thought he could be. i still think he can be as good as the rest of the team around him. give him a line and he can win games. give him a sb quality team and i believe he will be a sb quality qb but as we have seen give him a sub par team and he is sub par. he cant make a bad team better.

Perfectly Stated! Carr plays as good as the team plays, he can't carry them like some QBs, but I don't feel that he drags them down either. If we can fix other aspects of the team, then Carr will only get better.

That being said, as much as I hate to say it, I think Carr's time is done in Houston, all I keep hearing is how fans want his head on a platter, which sucks because I actually like Carr. They said it best on Sports 610 last monday, after one of the guys saying carr was extremely frustrated in the tunnel after the loss, he needs a new start with a new team.

utahmark
12-15-2006, 01:04 AM
its all good... i got me another little football tonight, so does that mean whatever i say equals double?

dbspi
12-15-2006, 01:30 AM
Bob said he interviewed seven coaching canidates and all said Carr could get them to a SB . In fact one guy said that if McNair was going to cut Carr and draft VY ... well he did'nt want the job .

He blamed the previous staff for some errors in building the team . He said that they screwed up by getting rid of Sharper and Glenn because they provided leadership .

That must be Fresno State Head Coach who was also interviewed by Texans for HC position.

dbspi
12-15-2006, 01:37 AM
carr is as good as any free agent we are gonna bring in. some people want a change just for a change. if we gonna bring in a free agent to groom a rookie we might draft this year might as well just keep carr and let him do the grooming.

Not true, there is allot of good quarterback free agent this year. If we had picked up Huard from KC this off season then our QB position would have been solidified for next 3 yrs. Huard is back up to Green in KC and he wants a chance to start in this league.

Don't tell me Carr is in the same league as Huard.

dbspi
12-15-2006, 01:40 AM
oh yeah, and he also said that he thought it was a mistake to not include players over 30 on the first team.

He also mentioned that it was a mistake to cut Glen and Sharper. Team missed their leadership.

utahmark
12-15-2006, 01:42 AM
Not true, there is allot of good quarterback free agent this year. If we had picked up Huard from KC this off season then our QB position would have been solidified for next 3 yrs. Huard is back up to Green in KC and he wants a chance to start in this league.

Don't tell me Carr is in the same league as Huard.
i cant tell you that i havent seen him play. but i dont think you have seen huard play in the situation carr has played in either.

ATX
12-15-2006, 01:55 AM
Look at the Chicago Bears.......Great Defense, good lines, and a good running back. Grossman doesn't have to be Peyton Manning for the bears to be good. He just has to not screw it up too bad, and even when he does.....that Defense helps them win games.

I like what I'm seeing with some of our young guys. Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, and Dunta Robinson will hopefully anchor a good defense in the near future. Add a few more guys around them and we'll be set.

Same with the offense. We had a nice draft in the middle rounds with Spencer, Winston, and Daniels. We brought in a veteran probowl Center to fill in until we could get our center of the future. I seriously think we're only a few pieces away from getting out of the dump we're in and turning this franchise around.

Part of it is the homer in me, but part of it is legit hope. I just want to start winning for once.

phan1
12-15-2006, 04:28 AM
I don't see why people think Carr won't be back in 2007. The organization has said nothing about Carr's job being in any jeopardy right now. And so far, Kubiak has been very honest with the media. If Carr really needed to play better and has been dissappointing, Kubiak would say so like he did with MW early in the season. Right now, it sounds like Kubiak still firmly believes he can turn Carr around... Hopefully, he's not blaming himself for Carr's short-commings, cause that would really set us back years.

Nighthawk
12-15-2006, 04:37 AM
fans or a lot like cows. if he is right and we start winning we will have more fans than we want.


He's used up 5 years worth of good faith from the fans. How much good faith you think he's got coming? I think people are not going to wait for the Teaxans to "start winning."

brewhaus
12-15-2006, 04:38 AM
I don't see why people think Carr won't be back in 2007. The organization has said nothing about Carr's job being in any jeopardy right now. And so far, Kubiak has been very honest with the media. If Carr really needed to play better and has been dissappointing, Kubiak would say so like he did with MW early in the season. Right now, it sounds like Kubiak still firmly believes he can turn Carr around... Hopefully, he's not blaming himself for Carr's short-commings, cause that would really set us back years.

Carr will IMO play out (or sit out) his contract with the Texans. This team has so many other needs that they can't afford to spend FA $ or burn a draft pick on a QB. AND.....I think the Texans will be OK in spite of that. I am not so sure we are 1 year away from turning it around but over the next couple of years I think Kubiak is really going to create a solid base for this team and we are going to see big change occur.

Nighthawk
12-15-2006, 04:41 AM
Perfectly Stated! Carr plays as good as the team plays, he can't carry them like some QBs, but I don't feel that he drags them down either. If we can fix other aspects of the team, then Carr will only get better.

Well put. It means the team carries Carr, not the right way around. I'm beginning to think McNair is a LOT DUMBER than we thought.

RTP2110
12-15-2006, 05:40 AM
The fact that McNair has that much confidence in Carr kinda tells me that Carr must have a vote of confidence. McNair obviously knows what people are saying about Carr. The man he goes to for QB info is Kubiak. Maybe Carr is playing QB just the way Kubiak wants him to???

RTP2110
12-15-2006, 05:48 AM
Oooooooor....Maybe McNair is just waxing his Carr to make it look shiny, so he can sell it.

Texanfan4ever
12-15-2006, 05:52 AM
He's used up 5 years worth of good faith from the fans. How much good faith you think he's got coming? I think people are not going to wait for the Teaxans to "start winning."


Oh, they'll wait. And it will be worth it.

Silver Oak
12-15-2006, 06:27 AM
I'm just glad he let it be known that Carr's sticking around so everyone can shut up about who's going to replace him.



I agree!

Let's concentrate on the OL and DB and Carr will start to either prove what he's capable of and what we have seen glimpses of, or he'll flounder and there will be no question.

aj.
12-15-2006, 06:36 AM
Yeah, having one of the worst O - lines in the league year in and year out and expecting to have a good offense is CRAZY!!!

Go get us some Freakin Lineman McNair!!!!!

And while you're at it, demand QB play like we saw from the youngster Alex Smith last night in the 4th quarter against Seattle (making plays when protection completely breaks down as it does from time to time even on good teams). Even average QBs make plays every now and then - like when Smith shook off the blitzing DB, kept his eyes downfield, escaped to his left and threw a perfect little touch pass to Gore at the 5 to seal the win. There was another one just prior to that - a critical third down conversion - where Smith sidestepped heavy pressure in the pocket and threw a dart to the receiver about 15 yards downfield between four Seattle defenders. I'm hard pressed to recall take-control plays like that from our QB in 4 1/2 years. And as I sit there and watch these other games, I often imagine what our QB would do in similar situations (I know what he would do). Just once, I'd like to see our QB fight his way out of the pressure and hit someone more than 10 yards downfield. Trouble is -- he's not looking past five yards. Yeah ... but it's all the line's fault.

Runner
12-15-2006, 06:58 AM
...Carr will start to either prove what he's capable of and what we have seen glimpses of, or he'll flounder and there will be no question.

That's what was said last off-season. If we hear it again this off-season, I hope we don't hear it the one after that.

Prove it or lose it already.

Buffi2
12-15-2006, 07:35 AM
And while you're at it, demand QB play like we saw from the youngster Alex Smith last night in the 4th quarter against Seattle (making plays when protection completely breaks down as it does from time to time even on good teams). Good QBs make plays every now and then - like when Smith shook off the blitzing DB, kept his eyes downfield, escaped to his left and threw a perfect little touch pass to Gore at the 5 to seal the win. There was another one just prior to that - a critical third down conversion - where Smith sidestepped heavy pressure in the pocket and threw a dart to the receiver about 15 yards downfield between four Seattle defenders.

That was a fine QB show, wasn't it? I'm really tired of all of the Carr stuff, but I'm going to throw in my :twocents: I think Carr can be ok with a little help from the OL - but he isn't a playmaker and I'm not sure you can teach that. Kubiak can probably get him back to something close to what he was before he started hearing footsteps all around him - but can you teach the fire that it takes to make a play and win like Alex Smith did last night? I don't think so.

If - and this is a big if - they can find someone/anyone but preferably a RB who has that ability to make big plays, has the drive and competitive spirit to go for the win no matter what (and not take a knee with 57 seconds left), a never give up mentality, then we can probably win with Carr being ok as opposed to very good or great.

Our offense needs a great playmaker who also happens to be a great motivator. Someone to bring those guys together and help them become more driven to win. Enthusiasm and drive are just as contagious as depression and giving up. I know it should be the QB - but look at Bettis last year with Pittsburgh. He basically willed that SB win and the team followed.

I'm not giving up hope - I'm hoping for a playmaker from somewhere - FA or draft - I don't care and I don't care who it is. Just someone with an extra strong will to win.

I was happy to see that McNair gave the fans a good rep.

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 07:55 AM
And while you're at it, demand QB play like we saw from the youngster Alex Smith last night in the 4th quarter against Seattle (making plays when protection completely breaks down as it does from time to time even on good teams). Even average QBs make plays every now and then - like when Smith shook off the blitzing DB, kept his eyes downfield, escaped to his left and threw a perfect little touch pass to Gore at the 5 to seal the win. There was another one just prior to that - a critical third down conversion - where Smith sidestepped heavy pressure in the pocket and threw a dart to the receiver about 15 yards downfield between four Seattle defenders. I'm hard pressed to recall take-control plays like that from our QB in 4 1/2 years. And as I sit there and watch these other games, I often imagine what our QB would do in similar situations (I know what he would do). Just once, I'd like to see our QB fight his way out of the pressure and hit someone more than 10 yards downfield. Trouble is -- he's not looking past five yards. Yeah ... but it's all the line's fault.

Part of that is being too close to the situation. I recall a couple like that earlier this year alone. Anytime Carr escapes the rush and makes a nice throw, I tend to remember it, because your overriding point is completely valid. It doesn't happen nearly often enough.

My inital reaction to McNair's comments was .... well, I'm a little down. I don't think Carr has what it takes to take this team anywhere. At some point, he has to take the bull by the horns and win a game or two for us. He's done a small bit of that - enough to make you open your eyes and think maybe ... but then he never delivers. The game vs. Jacksonville with the dive over the top, the game vs. the Bears in Chicago in December, the Rams game and Arizona games last year where he called plays for a half ... all these show that he can do it, but he seldom does it. So in that regard, I think he needs to find a new home.

On the other hand, the knee-jerk, "Oh my god, get anyone to replace him!" reaction doesn't suit me. Realistically, Carr is a middle-of-the-road QB that can't win games on his own, but can do well with a team around him. So the only real upgrade we're going to find is a QB that can take the team on his back and will the team to a win. QBs like that aren't just sitting out on the waiver wire.

So while I am dismayed at the tone of McNair's comments, I can understand how he's never going to come out and say Carr is finished as a Texan. It would be dumb for business, as no one would trade for him. I just really, really hope the team drafts a QB this year. Alternatively, if we can get a real upgrade at QB, or at least a young QB with great potential to build around (Schaub, perhaps, though the asking price will be too high), that would be great. Otherwise, we're stuck with Carr. I can live with being stuck with Carr, as long as it's Carr and a plan for the future. I'm a little worried the team still thinks he is the future, though.

BigWig
12-15-2006, 07:56 AM
I don't know if this has been posted- There is a bit more, but this is the high points.

link: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/sports/16241245.htm

McNair said after watching Thursday's practice that he's as frustrated as anyone, but insists the team is close to a "monumental" breakthrough, as early as next season.

"If I didn't feel we were on the right track, I'd be a lot more concerned about it," he said........McNair still believes in Carr and said all he needs is playmakers around him.
McNair on the future of the Texans: "We're going to get it right. I have no doubt in my mind, we're going to win. We're going to be a big-time winner. And it's not going to be that long."

So lets see no playmakers huh? What does that say for AJ, Moulds, Daniels?
Gimme a break ABC= Anything But Carr

real
12-15-2006, 07:57 AM
Yeah, having one of the worst O - lines in the league year in and year out and expecting to have a good offense is CRAZY!!!

Go get us some Freakin Lineman McNair!!!!!

How do you judge worst O-line ?

By sacks ?

real
12-15-2006, 08:01 AM
McNairs comments dissapoint me, and I honestly think He just doesn't want to look like a fool....How would it look for them to pass on VY, the hometown guy, that's tearing it up right now....the guy who "most" Houstonians wanted, and then the very next year get rid of Carr....Politics and not performance are playing too big of a role in the decisions made by this franchise...

If you see a guy's performance hasn't been up to par for 5 yrs. now, and then say to the public that he'll be back next year and the season isn't even over tells me that it's a personal thing for McNair, and it kind of makes me lose respect for him as an owner....

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 08:05 AM
If you see a guy's performance hasn't been up to par for 5 yrs. now....

I know it's hard to fathom, but maybe we fans are wrong (see above post before you start ripping me). Maybe the NFL people from scouts to GM to coach are all saying his performance has been up to par given his surrounding cast. Or at least, if not up to par, better than what we can get on the open market.

I have no clue, but I do allow for the possibility that a bunch of MB posters could be wrong about NFL personnel decisions. Maybe.

JDizzle
12-15-2006, 08:05 AM
At some point stuff like this has to breed a little resentment with the players. If they don't perform to expectations then they are cut or benched .... unless his name is David Carr. If I'm a lineman or RB then I'm pretty pissed that McNair just told the media I'm probably going to be replaced in the offseason because it's 100% my fault and not Carr's.

Mr. White
12-15-2006, 08:09 AM
I have said over and over that the decision to keep Carr was McNair's.

As for one candidate that said he wouldn't take the job if Carr was cut and Young was drafted, maybe it was Carr's college coach that said that because he was interviewed.

I think this makes it evidently clear that McNair made his decision about Carr before he interviewed candidates.

Bottom line from this, by midway through next season which should see some amazing things.

Hey McNair, that is 12 games and you just boxed yourself in!

I've been saying this as well. Even though I heard Dave Harbison say "keeping Carr as QB wasn't a prerequisite for McNair's head coach" on the 610 Sportsflash, I don't buy it.

McNair wasn't going to hire anybody that didn't want to keep David Carr. It's pretty obvious.

We will be chronic basement dwellers if he runs his team that way .

Like 5 years without a winning record?

kingh99
12-15-2006, 08:13 AM
I was shocked nobody was talking about it...it was all over sports radio earlier. He took a shot at VY by saying that one head coach refused to come if they drafted him supposedly...so it looks like we will have Carr here for 2007.

feh

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 08:13 AM
I hope McNair ends up being proven right about Carr. I can think of many good things and great excuses to make about Carr's play, but I think they are as old as the complaints I read about him.

I hope to, one day, wear my battle red, #8, David Carr jersey with pride. I might. I can dream.

When things are going his way, there isn't a more entertaining qb in the league to watch. I like David's fire.

kingh99
12-15-2006, 08:14 AM
When he interviewd the coaches to replace Capers he had already picked up Carr's option so I'm sure that anyone who wanted that job was going to tell McNair they could fix his Carr. Today McNair was 100% behind Carr and their current plan so I'm convinced we will roll him out next year once again. We better start getting used to that idea.

feh

NederlandTexan
12-15-2006, 08:17 AM
Even average QBs make plays every now and then - And as I sit there and watch these other games, I often imagine what our QB would do in similar situations (I know what he would do). Just once, I'd like to see our QB fight his way out of the pressure and hit someone more than 10 yards downfield. Trouble is -- he's not looking past five yards. Yeah ... but it's all the line's fault.

Bingo! I do wish our QB was one that inspired hope from his players, but I fear this is not the case. The QB position requires a leader, the guy the others look at to carry them to victory. Good luck, Houston.

Rightnow
12-15-2006, 08:18 AM
Carr will IMO play out (or sit out) his contract with the Texans. This team has so many other needs that they can't afford to spend FA $ or burn a draft pick on a QB. AND.....I think the Texans will be OK in spite of that. I am not so sure we are 1 year away from turning it around but over the next couple of years I think Kubiak is really going to create a solid base for this team and we are going to see big change occur.

I totally agree. The very best case for a new QB next year will be drafting somebody like Kolb out of U of H as a development guy. I doubt that will happen as we need to use that 3rd round pick on something more important. Carr will be back, and Sage will be back. Kubiak has already benched Carr once and he will do it again if he needs to.

I think we need a stud OT and they are typically all gone by the fifth pick in the first round. A 10 year OT is what I am voting for in the first round, or if there is no stud for that position, we trade down for a corner or safety. Then in the second round we will be towards the top and we can get RB, OLB, or such.

real
12-15-2006, 08:18 AM
I know it's hard to fathom, but maybe we fans are wrong (see above post before you start ripping me). Maybe the NFL people from scouts to GM to coach are all saying his performance has been up to par given his surrounding cast. Or at least, if not up to par, better than what we can get on the open market.

I have no clue, but I do allow for the possibility that a bunch of MB posters could be wrong about NFL personnel decisions. Maybe.

Honestly, I don't put much stock into what "NFL people" say....

I honestly believe that You, Me, and almost anyone else can have as much of a success rate when it comes to evaluating talent as people in the NFL....It's almost like you're saying: If they say it....it must be true....and I have seen too many bust and bad personnel decisions for me to put my faith into what an organization tries to force feed me...

I know what I've seen out of Carr, and I DO think that if he had a stellar line, and running game, and weapons to throw to he'd be better than he is....But my question is...What if we never have all those things ? Are we not going to expect him to make plays ? Wouldn't every QB in the leauge like all those things ? Im not worried about it, because I can look at David play and tell he isn't a good QB....I will continue to support the team and hope for the best, but David will never take us anywhere...JMO

dalemurphy
12-15-2006, 08:24 AM
Look at it this way, if we fix the oline next year and he still plays poorly, Kubiak will yank his a** out of there and do it fast! So, for this offseason, I say we as fans should focus on the Oline being fixed and acquiring quality depth. The rest will take care of itself.

A good oline, A good RB, and continued defensive improvement will quickly expose David Carr if he's as bad as many of you think. It's just too hard for many of us to sift through the muck when there is so much poor play around him.

real
12-15-2006, 08:25 AM
This was a bad move by McNair....period....

I'm pretty sure there are players on that team(D.Rob, A.J, Moulds) who thinkg the QB position can use an upgrade, and he basically said that no matter how poor Carr plays, he'll keep his job next year....I wonder if he discussed this with Kubiak....

If I'm A.J, or D.Rob, and I have an owner that just said that, I'm probably counting down the days until I'm a free agent...

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 08:26 AM
I know what I've seen out of Carr, and I DO think that if he had a stellar line, and running game, and weapons to throw to he'd be better than he is....But my question is...What if we never have all those things ?

Well, that goes back to what I said in my earlier post - we do need an upgrade, but QBs that win games on their own don't just grow on trees. So yeah, we need an upgrade. I think drafting is the surest way to get that.

To answer the question in bold ... well, we'll continue losing games, period. (although no one say s we need a stellar line, just get us to average, please). Even the best QBs can't go all the way without a good team around them - Elway, Marino, Moon, and a few others all illustrate that point. But I think we agree that Carr is not going to take us anywhere the team doesn't take him, and that's the main point.

kingh99
12-15-2006, 08:31 AM
At some point stuff like this has to breed a little resentment with the players. If they don't perform to expectations then they are cut or benched .... unless his name is David Carr. If I'm a lineman or RB then I'm pretty pissed that McNair just told the media I'm probably going to be replaced in the offseason because it's 100% my fault and not Carr's.

feh

real
12-15-2006, 08:33 AM
Carr is not going to take us anywhere the team doesn't take him, and that's the main point.

That's what I call an average-poor QB....

If you all are satisfied with an average-poor QB then I totally understand your point of view...because I was always of the opinion that a good QB raises the level of his teammates play...I can't think of too many starting QB's in the leauge right now that I wouldn't take ahead of Carr....

By any chance did you get to see the 49'ers play last night? Alex Smith ?


Question:

Based on performance alone do you think that if Carr were a third rd. pick he'd still be starting ?

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 08:34 AM
Look at it this way, if we fix the oline next year and he still plays poorly, Kubiak will yank his a** out of there and do it fast! So, for this offseason, I say we as fans should focus on the Oline being fixed and acquiring quality depth. The rest will take care of itself.

A good oline, A good RB, and continued defensive improvement will quickly expose David Carr if he's as bad as many of you think. It's just too hard for many of us to sift through the muck when there is so much poor play around him.

I agree with you 1000%. I did mean to put the extra zero in there. I can't condemn David for most of what I see out on the field. The fumbles are inexcusable, and underthrowing deep passes is inexcusable. The rest of it just makes my jaw drop. I wouldn't know where to start if I were Kubiak and Rick Smith. I just feel like there isn't a quarterback in history that could make this group of players look good, and definitely not great.

If Carr gets all the tools and still can't get it done, I'll quit defending him. No one on this board could look me in the eye and tell me Carr has been given a fair shake. I don't care how long Carr has been in the NFL, he hasn't been a QB in an even mediocre NFL offense.

real
12-15-2006, 08:34 AM
(although no one say s we need a stellar line, just get us to average, please).

How do you judge O-line ?

From what the coaches say? your own observation ? or sacks ?

the wonger need food
12-15-2006, 08:36 AM
It's politics as usual over on 1 Reliant Drive. I sure am looking forward to 2 more seasons of excuses for Dinkin' Dave and this horrible offense. Go Texans!!!

thunderkyss
12-15-2006, 08:38 AM
And while you're at it, demand QB play like we saw from the youngster Alex Smith last night in the 4th quarter against Seattle (making plays when protection completely breaks down as it does from time to time even on good teams). Even average QBs make plays every now and then - like when Smith shook off the blitzing DB, kept his eyes downfield, escaped to his left and threw a perfect little touch pass to Gore at the 5 to seal the win. There was another one just prior to that - a critical third down conversion - where Smith sidestepped heavy pressure in the pocket and threw a dart to the receiver about 15 yards downfield between four Seattle defenders. I'm hard pressed to recall take-control plays like that from our QB in 4 1/2 years. And as I sit there and watch these other games, I often imagine what our QB would do in similar situations (I know what he would do). Just once, I'd like to see our QB fight his way out of the pressure and hit someone more than 10 yards downfield. Trouble is -- he's not looking past five yards. Yeah ... but it's all the line's fault.

I'm not the biggest David Carr fan.... but I think our memories might be a little short.

Carr has made plays before..... bouncing off a blitzer like AlexSmith did... maybe not, but we usually don't see that from someone of their size. The fact that it happened, was more the case of bad tackling than good QB pressure. I agree AS should be commended for keeping his head in that situation.... & odds are if that were David, it would have been a sack, poor tackling and all.

But the point remains David has made plays escaping the pocket. Against the Giants, he made a very nice run, and leaped over players to get into the endzone.

Of course there are other improvised plays where he threw the ball for the first, but nothing "amazing" pops out at me right now.

But the problem with David, is when he does it. If we have the lead David will not do that little extra, to keep a drive going, or to score a touchdown..... As we saw against Tennessee....... if we are within three, he won't. I might be wrong, but I can't think of anytime this year that we had a lead, that we scored a touchdown to increase our lead by 7, other than the Jacksonville @ Jax game........ but when the defense puts you on their 30, what are you going to do??

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 08:38 AM
How do you judge O-line ?

From what the coaches say? your own observation ? or sacks ?

I don't have game film like coaches or a DVR. My feel for most of these games though is: one mississippi, two mississippi, three - David is running for his life.

kingh99
12-15-2006, 08:40 AM
It's politics as usual over on 1 Reliant Drive. I sure am looking forward to 2 more seasons of excuses for Dinkin' Dave and horrible a offense. Go Texans!!!

feh

the wonger need food
12-15-2006, 08:40 AM
I agree with you 1000%. I did mean to put the extra zero in there. I can't condemn David for most of what I see out on the field. The fumbles are inexcusable, and underthrowing deep passes is inexcusable. The rest of it just makes my jaw drop. I wouldn't know where to start if I were Kubiak and Rick Smith. I just feel like there isn't a quarterback in history that could make this group of players look good, and definitely not great.

If Carr gets all the tools and still can't get it done, I'll quit defending him. No one on this board could look me in the eye and tell me Carr has been given a fair shake. I don't care how long Carr has been in the NFL, he hasn't been a QB in an even mediocre NFL offense.

Yeah, we should have signed him to a 10-year extension just to make sure we have enough time to put the pieces in place to make him successful.

Wow... I just cannot believe that Bob McNair is willing to throw away the first 7 years of this franchise down the toilet looking for ways to make a single player successful. His pride is causing him to make too many bad decisions as an owner.

the wonger need food
12-15-2006, 08:43 AM
I don't have game film like coaches or a DVR. My feel for most of these games though is: one mississippi, two mississippi, three - David is running for his life.

If he had some semblence of pocket presence he wouldn't run. Good QB's learn how to move there feet to get them out of trouble. Carr just ducks or runs into defenders.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 08:43 AM
Yeah, we should have signed him to a 10-year extension just to make sure we have enough time to put the pieces in place to make him successful.

Wow... I just cannot believe that Bob McNair is willing to throw away the first 7 years of this franchise down the toilet looking for ways to make a single player successful. His pride is causing him to make too many bad decisions as an owner.

In my opinion, this is David's first year with decent coaching. Considering he is learning an entirely new offense, it might as well be his rookie season.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 08:48 AM
Yeah, we should have signed him to a 10-year extension just to make sure we have enough time to put the pieces in place to make him successful.

Wow... I just cannot believe that Bob McNair is willing to throw away the first 7 years of this franchise down the toilet looking for ways to make a single player successful. His pride is causing him to make too many bad decisions as an owner.

Most of the sacks I see look like the defender is in the pocket almost as fast as David. You can't avoid that kind of pressure. All you can do is pray you are still in one piece when it is over.

One player, a qb in this case, will not make this team look any better than it is.

If he had some semblence of pocket presence he wouldn't run. Good QB's learn how to move there feet to get them out of trouble. Carr just ducks or runs into defenders.

JDizzle
12-15-2006, 08:48 AM
At some point? We are dumasses to even be discussing this. If David Carr starts next year, well the Texans can forever kiss my ass. I will be done with them. McNair is just too big of an ******* to support.

Let me modify this statement. They can forever plus one day kiss my ass.

Tell us how you really feel.

real
12-15-2006, 08:50 AM
Most of the sacks I see look like the defender is in the pocket almost as fast as David. You can't avoid that kind of pressure. All you can do is pray you are still in one piece when it is over.


I think you are over exaggerating

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 08:50 AM
I'm gonna start keeping track of screen names with negative Carr posts. I hope I can rub it in all of your faces some day.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 08:52 AM
I think you are over exaggerating


It's just what I see. I don't know how some people don't. In that Oakland game there were plays where Carr didn't even have time to set his feet.

real
12-15-2006, 08:53 AM
I'm gonna start keeping track of screen names with negative Carr posts. I hope I can rub it in all of your faces some day.

I don't understand what the point of that would be...

I'm a fan of the Texans and if David Carr were to suddenly become a good QB for us, then I will remind you just so you can rub it in my face...

All I want is for the Texans to win, and I think David is a part of the problem and not the solution...period....

jerek
12-15-2006, 08:54 AM
I was shocked nobody was talking about it...it was all over sports radio earlier. He took a shot at VY by saying that one head coach refused to come if they drafted him supposedly...so it looks like we will have Carr here for 2007.

I wasn't really surprised to hear that this is the case, though I thought the option was picked up after Kubiak was here? As much as I hate to say "one more year" for purposes of evaluating -- because we still don't really know if Carr will get it done at this level -- I still think Carr has the tools to get the job done. I'd hate to trade him and watch him succeed elsewhere, but more consequentially, there just isn't another option that makes sense in both football and financial terms, this offseason. We deal Carr and we eat a lot of dead cap space, there isn't a must-have FA and they'll command a lot any way, and there isn't a must-have draft pick, and even if we were set on replacing Carr, I'd rather see what Sage can do, if only it means shutting up all of the fans who have been crying for him this year. Bottom line we're looking at Carr and Sage backing him for the foreseeable future.

I'm still leery of the theory that Kubiak had to endorse Carr to get the job, or that playing Carr is a prerequisite for playing ball here. I still don't see McNair staking his nine figure sports franchise on a guy whom he is clearly aware is not a fan favorite, and refusing to trust his coaches or give them latitude. You don't become filthy rich by clinging to pet relationships.

the wonger need food
12-15-2006, 08:54 AM
Most of the sacks I see look like the defender is in the pocket almost as fast as David. You can't avoid that kind of pressure. All you can do is pray you are still in one piece when it is over.

One player, a qb in this case, will not make this team look any better than it is.


Another old and tired blanket excuse for Carr.

Most of the sacks I see are because he holds onto the ball too long or doesn't have any awareness of what's going on around him.

These are mostly perceptions from fans. The only true fact that we're left with is that Carr has been a failure. I was really hoping that McNair would be a man and admit his mistakes after seeing another year of horrible performances by his Face of the Franchise player. Unfortunately he has too much pride to admit his mistakes and we're the ones that have to suffer for it.

infantrycak
12-15-2006, 08:54 AM
When he interviewd the coaches to replace Capers he had already picked up Carr's option ...

The option was picked up later on, about a month after Kubiak got to Houston.

I think this makes it evidently clear that McNair made his decision about Carr before he interviewed candidates.

Funny that his intent was clearly to disabuse that notion and you reach the opposite conclusion.

I would have liked to seen how that question was asked.

He asked each coach, "can David Carr take us to a superbowl?"

Carr needs to either look like Steve Young the last three games or leave Houston. Dubious either will happen.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 08:55 AM
Another old and tired blanket excuse for Carr.

Most of the sacks I see are because he holds onto the ball too long or doesn't have any awareness of what's going on around him.

These are mostly perceptions from fans. The only true fact that we're left with is that Carr has been a failure. I was really hoping that McNair would be a man and admit his mistakes after seeing another year of horrible performances by his Face of the Franchise player. Unfortunately he has too much pride to admit his mistakes and we're the ones that have to suffer for it.

I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Beer and Metal
12-15-2006, 08:56 AM
How do you judge O-line ?

From what the coaches say? your own observation ? or sacks ?

It would be great if a message board member or two who have all the game tapes could study JUST the O-line. I haven't had the luxury to watch very many games, but I have seen some horrible blocking.
Several times, I have seen 2-3 defenders simultaneously converge on Carr with a 4 man rush!

It would be great to time the period between the snap and when he's pressured. Comparing that period to the period of successful QBs would be interesting.

the wonger need food
12-15-2006, 08:58 AM
I'm gonna start keeping track of screen names with negative Carr posts. I hope I can rub it in all of your faces some day.

The Wonger Need Food - Negative Carr posts, Carr "basher", Carr "hater" since 2004. Put it in your pipe and smoke it... loser.

Mr. White
12-15-2006, 08:59 AM
The 610 morning show just said that one prominent coach (they didn't name names) said off the record in an interview that he wouldn't want to coach the Texans as long as Carr is the QB.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 09:01 AM
The Wonger Need Food - Negative Carr posts, Carr "basher", Carr "hater" since 2004. Put it in your pipe and smoke it... loser.

Why do people that don't agree with you have to be losers? The truth of the matter is we (folks who spend as much time as you and I on this board) are all losers. If we weren't, we'd be doing something productive with all the time we spend on here.

...You post a little more than I do.

real
12-15-2006, 09:03 AM
It would be great if a message board member or two who have all the game tapes could study JUST the O-line. I haven't had the luxury to watch very many games, but I have seen some horrible blocking.
Several times, I have seen 2-3 defenders simultaneously converge on Carr with a 4 man rush!

It would be great to time the period between the snap and when he's pressured. Comparing that period to the period of successful QBs would be interesting.

I'm going to record the game this weekend, and I will give a HONEST assessment of what I think about the line....I won't even judge Carr....My opinion may not mean much, but I'll do it anyway....

jerek
12-15-2006, 09:04 AM
Well put. It means the team carries Carr, not the right way around. I'm beginning to think McNair is a LOT DUMBER than we thought.

You're right, he built a $1.5B business because through luck. Or maybe it's just because he had you on his board?

How could we have missed it. :rolleyes:

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 09:05 AM
How do you judge O-line ?

From what the coaches say? your own observation ? or sacks ?

We've had this discussion before xtru .... I actually watch their play. I don't know exactly how many sacks they've given up this year. I will say this - the sack number is smaller this year because Carr is actually making fewer mistakes in that regard.

It's easy enough to watch the basic plays that this team runs and then watch other teams run the same or very similar plays from the same formations and make comparisons. You can take a look at a basic I formation lead run left and watch the spacing from one game to the next. Hell, sometimes it's different from one quarter to the next. I'm talking about how they line up and where they set their feet. You can often watch the tackles and see tells in their stances as to whether they're going to be run blocking or pass blocking. You can watch the pocket that's formed and how it's about two yards wide, when other teams have much larger pockets. You can watch how other teams' linemen work in concert. You can see ours do it - sometimes. You can watch the Raiders game and see Burgess just owning Winston repeatedly, regardless of whether a sack was recorded or not. You can watch the Titans game and see Vandenbosch abusing Wiegert, regardless of whether a sack was recorded or not. The Eagles game and Trent Cole, etc., etc., etc.

You can come sit with me in section 323 for a home game, which has an end-zone overhead view, and watch the receiver routes. Anytime the routes are all deeper than 10-15 yards, Carr has defenders in his face already. Frequently, he slides to the right (only to the right, which is one of his issues) and dumps off or manages to hit a receiver that's come back for the ball. You NEVER see Carr have a lot of time for a throw. I sit and watch the opposing teams and scream at the TV or the field (away or home) to get to the QB. Remember the long pass from Roethlisberger to Wilson last year on a critical 3rd down? I'm not exaggerating at all when I say Ben had at least 8 seconds to throw that ball. And it's not the norm, but that stuff NEVER happens for us.

Again, the QB has his part in all this and I am completely for replacing Carr. Regardless which QB we put back there, I want to see a better O-line. I don't judge O-line performance by sack totals or rushing yards - I judge it by watching with my own two eyes. There are days when this line doesn't outright suck, but even then, they aren't doing anything to win football games. That's the best that can be said about them. Isn't that the same problem we have with our QB?

jerek
12-15-2006, 09:06 AM
Just in case, we should draft Troy Smith, even if to light a fire under David "Aveda" Carr's hair. If Carr plays well, then we have a legit backup. If Carr pulls a David Carr and stinks yet again, then give the ball to the kid from the Buckeye State.

I thought we had a legit backup. Isn't that what everyone's been saying around here bout Sage?

I'd hate to burn a 2nd or 3rd rounder on Troy Smith if we're not intent on playing him sooner rather than later, and though I haven't followed draft projections closely yet I've heard his draft stock is still rising. This team has too many needs to go first-day fishing for a backup QB.

real
12-15-2006, 09:07 AM
We've had this discussion before xtru .... I actually watch their play. I don't know exactly how many sacks they've given up this year. I will say this - the sack number is smaller this year because Carr is actually making fewer mistakes in that regard.



Honestly I was just asking....

People seem to have different ways in which they come to the conclusion that the line sucks....I just wanted to know what kind of beast I was dealing with.....:aikido:

jerek
12-15-2006, 09:08 AM
We've had this discussion before xtru .... I actually watch their play. I don't know exactly how many sacks they've given up this year. I will say this - the sack number is smaller this year because Carr is actually making fewer mistakes in that regard.

It's easy enough to watch the basic plays that this team runs and then watch other teams run the same or very similar plays from the same formations and make comparisons. You can take a look at a basic I formation lead run left and watch the spacing from one game to the next. Hell, sometimes it's different from one quarter to the next. I'm talking about how they line up and where they set their feet. You can often watch the tackles and see tells in their stances as to whether they're going to be run blocking or pass blocking. You can watch the pocket that's formed and how it's about two yards wide, when other teams have much larger pockets. You can watch how other teams' linemen work in concert. You can see ours do it - sometimes. You can watch the Raiders game and see Burgess just owning Winston repeatedly, regardless of whether a sack was recorded or not. You can watch the Titans game and see Vandenbosch abusing Wiegert, regardless of whether a sack was recorded or not. The Eagles game and Trent Cole, etc., etc., etc.

You can come sit with me in section 323 for a home game, which has an end-zone overhead view, and watch the receiver routes. Anytime the routes are all deeper than 10-15 yards, Carr has defenders in his face already. Frequently, he slides to the right (only to the right, which is one of his issues) and dumps off or manages to hit a receiver that's come back for the ball. You NEVER see Carr have a lot of time for a throw. I sit and watch the opposing teams and scream at the TV or the field (away or home) to get to the QB. Remember the long pass from Roethlisberger to Wilson last year on a critical 3rd down? I'm not exaggerating at all when I say Ben had at least 8 seconds to throw that ball. And it's not the norm, but that stuff NEVER happens for us.

Again, the QB has his part in all this and I am completely for replacing Carr. Regardless which QB we put back there, I want to see a better O-line. I don't judge O-line performance by sack totals or rushing yards - I judge it by watching with my own two eyes. There are days when this line doesn't outright suck, but even then, they aren't doing anything to win football games. That's the best that can be said about them. Isn't that the same problem we have with our QB?

Excellent post.

thunderkyss
12-15-2006, 09:09 AM
The man he goes to for QB info is Kubiak. Maybe Carr is playing QB just the way Kubiak wants him to???

& this is something I've come to accept.

For all I know Kubiak wanted to see David get sacked, and hold on to the ball, and that's it. Maybe he just wanted to make sure David turns the right way when handing the ball off..... Maybe he wanted to make sure David doesn't run out of bounds with the ball in his hand, behind the LOS...... He probably think it's his fault that he didn't go over the illegal forward pass rules, before the game.

Next week, he'll try throwing 6 yards past the LOS, or recognizing mismatches at the LOS...

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 09:09 AM
I don't understand what the point of that would be...

I'm a fan of the Texans and if David Carr were to suddenly become a good QB for us, then I will remind you just so you can rub it in my face...

All I want is for the Texans to win, and I think David is a part of the problem and not the solution...period....

100% agree with that.

dantem
12-15-2006, 09:10 AM
At some point stuff like this has to breed a little resentment with the players. If they don't perform to expectations then they are cut or benched .... unless his name is David Carr. If I'm a lineman or RB then I'm pretty pissed that McNair just told the media I'm probably going to be replaced in the offseason because it's 100% my fault and not Carr's.

Most of them were not playing, because they were not good, now they're playing cause no one is left but them.

dantem
12-15-2006, 09:12 AM
I don't understand what the point of that would be...

I'm a fan of the Texans and if David Carr were to suddenly become a good QB for us, then I will remind you just so you can rub it in my face...

All I want is for the Texans to win, and I think David is a part of the problem and not the solution...period....

David is part of the problem, he's on a team full of people that are all part of the problem, Next year hopefully he will be part of the solution.'

I'm a moron.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 09:13 AM
Honestly I was just asking....

People seem to have different ways in which they come to the conclusion that the line sucks....I just wanted to know what kind of beast I was dealing with.....:aikido:

I'll put pass protection aside for a second.

I've never seen one of our linemen come off of one block to get upfield and hit a linebacker or safety on a run. The line is absolutely terrible. The game is won and lost in the trenches, gentlemen. Big plays will overcome it sometimes, (e.g. Mathis on special teams or Petey or Demeco coming up with key turnovers) but you have to win the battle in the trenches to consistently win football games.

real
12-15-2006, 09:13 AM
And for the record....I don't think that I've said one time that the line was good eriadoc.....

I don't think they are as bad as some say....I actually think they are good enough for us to win with better QB....

real
12-15-2006, 09:16 AM
I'll put pass protection aside for a second.

I've never seen one of our linemen come off of one block to get upfield and hit a linebacker or safety on a run. The line is absolutely terrible. The game is won and lost in the trenches, gentlemen. Big plays will overcome it sometimes, (e.g. Mathis on special teams or Petey or Demeco coming up with key turnovers) but you have to win the battle in the trenches to consistently win football games.

The bolded part of your statement isn't true...And as a lineman you're taught to take care of first level first....I'm not really concerned with the running game as much as I am with the passing game at this point....

edit: It may be true that you haven't SEEN it happen, but it has....

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 09:17 AM
And for the record....I don't think that I've said one time that the line was good eriadoc.....

I don't think they are as bad as some say....I actually think they are good enough for us to win with better QB....

Oh, I know. We disagree to the extent of how bad our line is, but I think we're pretty much in agreement on the QB. Always good discussing things with you.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 09:17 AM
And for the record....I don't think that I've said one time that the line was good eriadoc.....

I don't think they are as bad as some say....I actually think they are good enough for us to win with better QB....

Do you think Peyton Manning could avoid the heat David sees from game to game? Do you think he makes a three step drop any quicker than David?

I think Andre runs a 4.4 40yd dash. If David has around three seconds or less to throw, how is he ever gonna throw a 40 yard pass?

real
12-15-2006, 09:21 AM
Do you think Peyton Manning could avoid the heat David sees from game to game? Do you think he makes a three step drop any quicker than David?

I think Andre runs a 4.4 40yd dash. If David has around three seconds or less to throw, how is he ever gonna throw a 40 yard pass?

I think Peyton Manning along with other QB's would realize they don't have a good line and make pre-snap reads....If you're asking me if I think Peyton could have success behind our line the answer is: HE!! YES....

ANd to the second part of your statement: Stop making it seem as if poor little David is being clobbered as soon as the ball is snapped everytime he drops back...And as pointed out yesterday by another poster, if you you lead the reciever and account for the time the ball is in the air...then yes...three seconds in more than enough time....

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 09:22 AM
Do you think Peyton Manning could avoid the heat David sees from game to game? Do you think he makes a three step drop any quicker than David?

I think Andre runs a 4.4 40yd dash. If David has around three seconds or less to throw, how is he ever gonna throw a 40 yard pass?

I realize this wasn't the point of your post, but he very well might. One of the major issues Kubiak set out to fix with Carr in TC was his footwork. I haven't paid close attention to it on a regular basis, but I have noticed Carr's drops are not always consistent. Maybe I'll pay more attention to that (not that I have anything else to focus on, right?). Anyway, Carr's footwork probably doesn't help the protection, timing, and his escapability, if I had to hazard a guess.

Seņor Stan
12-15-2006, 09:26 AM
I thought we had a legit backup. Isn't that what everyone's been saying around here bout Sage?

I'd hate to burn a 2nd or 3rd rounder on Troy Smith if we're not intent on playing him sooner rather than later, and though I haven't followed draft projections closely yet I've heard his draft stock is still rising. This team has too many needs to go first-day fishing for a backup QB.


Kubiak didn't carry three QBs this year, and I don't see him doing it next year.

It's Carr and Sage again for next year. Van Pelt can wait in the wings in the practice squad. Drafting another QB is a wasted pick at this point in the Texans building process.

The problem with this team is depth. You can blame that on the draft philosophy of the previous regime. They drafted as if they were one player away from greatness and sacrificed what could have been the core of the team. An expansion team should never be looking at handing out multiple picks trading up, (Babin) or in player trades (PBuc).

I know all teams battle injuries, but they (the winning ones) have the depth to overcome those player losses. The Texans don't have that luxury.

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2006, 09:27 AM
I heard that and feel he is taking us for idiots . With last years draft I can see a coach saying ... I'd rather have Bush and Carr over Young and Davis ... I can't see any canidate saying if you get rid of Carr for Vince Young I'm quitting .

VY would buy that coach a three year pass ... his situation would be great . I feel the Texan fan base just got insulted ... and Vince got drug into the mud to protect Carr .

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 09:31 AM
When he interviewd the coaches to replace Capers he had already picked up Carr's option so I'm sure that anyone who wanted that job was going to tell McNair they could fix his Carr. Today McNair was 100% behind Carr and their current plan so I'm convinced we will roll him out next year once again. We better start getting used to that idea.

Exactly.... Hate it... Love it.... either way - Get ready for it!!!

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2006, 09:32 AM
I realize this wasn't the point of your post, but he very well might. One of the major issues Kubiak set out to fix with Carr in TC was his footwork. I haven't paid close attention to it on a regular basis, but I have noticed Carr's drops are not always consistent. Maybe I'll pay more attention to that (not that I have anything else to focus on, right?). Anyway, Carr's footwork probably doesn't help the protection, timing, and his escapability, if I had to hazard a guess.

If you can find it read the SI story on Tony Romo . He was undrafted FA in 2003 . Each year he manage to stick around ... beating out Drew Henson , and Chad Hutchison .

How did he do this you ask ... he worked on his game nonstop for three years . He would work hours after practice on his play fakes , footwork , etc. He watched film of the QBs he considered the best and copied them until he thought he was just as good .

Scottyboy
12-15-2006, 09:37 AM
Sounds like the same ol' Crapaganda!

Looks like we got ourselves one hella of an Owner!

Carr is good? Give me a break

real
12-15-2006, 09:42 AM
Was this on the radio that he said that because I read the article and it was nowhere to be found???

He said it...

I heard the soundbite on 610 a little while ago...

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 09:51 AM
Dude keep tacking on karma for Carr. I am collecting all the homer posts and hope carr is a bust myself.

Why would you ever hope one of our players is a bust? I hope all our players do well, so the team wins. This sort of blind hatred is what makes me scratch my head around here. I may see deficiencies in a player's play and may call for the team to replace him, but I have no reason to hope a specific player does poorly. Did Carr kick your dog or something?

edo783
12-15-2006, 09:58 AM
We've had this discussion before xtru .... I actually watch their play. I don't know exactly how many sacks they've given up this year. I will say this - the sack number is smaller this year because Carr is actually making fewer mistakes in that regard.

It's easy enough to watch the basic plays that this team runs and then watch other teams run the same or very similar plays from the same formations and make comparisons. You can take a look at a basic I formation lead run left and watch the spacing from one game to the next. Hell, sometimes it's different from one quarter to the next. I'm talking about how they line up and where they set their feet. You can often watch the tackles and see tells in their stances as to whether they're going to be run blocking or pass blocking. You can watch the pocket that's formed and how it's about two yards wide, when other teams have much larger pockets. You can watch how other teams' linemen work in concert. You can see ours do it - sometimes. You can watch the Raiders game and see Burgess just owning Winston repeatedly, regardless of whether a sack was recorded or not. You can watch the Titans game and see Vandenbosch abusing Wiegert, regardless of whether a sack was recorded or not. The Eagles game and Trent Cole, etc., etc., etc.

You can come sit with me in section 323 for a home game, which has an end-zone overhead view, and watch the receiver routes. Anytime the routes are all deeper than 10-15 yards, Carr has defenders in his face already. Frequently, he slides to the right (only to the right, which is one of his issues) and dumps off or manages to hit a receiver that's come back for the ball. You NEVER see Carr have a lot of time for a throw. I sit and watch the opposing teams and scream at the TV or the field (away or home) to get to the QB. Remember the long pass from Roethlisberger to Wilson last year on a critical 3rd down? I'm not exaggerating at all when I say Ben had at least 8 seconds to throw that ball. And it's not the norm, but that stuff NEVER happens for us.

Again, the QB has his part in all this and I am completely for replacing Carr. Regardless which QB we put back there, I want to see a better O-line. I don't judge O-line performance by sack totals or rushing yards - I judge it by watching with my own two eyes. There are days when this line doesn't outright suck, but even then, they aren't doing anything to win football games. That's the best that can be said about them. Isn't that the same problem we have with our QB?

Good job. Seems things aren't as simple as some try and paint them.

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 10:00 AM
Why would you ever hope one of our players is a bust? I hope all our players do well, so the team wins. This sort of blind hatred is what makes me scratch my head around here. I may see deficiencies in a player's play and may call for the team to replace him, but I have no reason to hope a specific player does poorly. Did Carr kick your dog or something?

I agree.... Whether you like or hate, Carr, Williams, Joppru, Babin, etc...... Why as a fan would you EVER hope one of our players is a bust. It's one thing to call a player out, but to hope he's a bust?......... I just don't get it!!

El Tejano
12-15-2006, 10:16 AM
Thanks Mr. Mcnair for doing this. I wanted an apology and you apologized for your mistakes especially the non recruiting of players over 30 and release of Glenn and Sharper (which are the reasons I think our team went spiraling down.).

I think we will agree to disagree on Carr. We blamed you for the team and so I think it goes without saying that we at least give you credit for that display of leadership. Hopefully it can be reflected by the team and a win against New England would be wonderful.

dantem
12-15-2006, 10:16 AM
Why would you ever hope one of our players is a bust? I hope all our players do well, so the team wins. This sort of blind hatred is what makes me scratch my head around here. I may see deficiencies in a player's play and may call for the team to replace him, but I have no reason to hope a specific player does poorly. Did Carr kick your dog or something?

After the Titans game there were several people on this board who were gloating over the loss, and were down right giddy over the fact that we lost to the Titans, They still insist they are Texan fans, just the "Realistic ones" :shades: I'm sorry, I have never seen a true fan gloat over a loss by his own team. I have just started realizing we have a lot of people on this board that hate DC so much that they would rather lose every game than see him do well.

In my opinnion these so called "Fans" are more of a embarrassment to Texans football than DC will ever be.

Tayton
12-15-2006, 10:21 AM
We've had this discussion before xtru .... I actually watch their play. I don't know exactly how many sacks they've given up this year. I will say this - the sack number is smaller this year because Carr is actually making fewer mistakes in that regard.

It's easy enough to watch the basic plays that this team runs and then watch other teams run the same or very similar plays from the same formations and make comparisons. You can take a look at a basic I formation lead run left and watch the spacing from one game to the next. Hell, sometimes it's different from one quarter to the next. I'm talking about how they line up and where they set their feet. You can often watch the tackles and see tells in their stances as to whether they're going to be run blocking or pass blocking. You can watch the pocket that's formed and how it's about two yards wide, when other teams have much larger pockets. You can watch how other teams' linemen work in concert. You can see ours do it - sometimes. You can watch the Raiders game and see Burgess just owning Winston repeatedly, regardless of whether a sack was recorded or not. You can watch the Titans game and see Vandenbosch abusing Wiegert, regardless of whether a sack was recorded or not. The Eagles game and Trent Cole, etc., etc., etc.

You can come sit with me in section 323 for a home game, which has an end-zone overhead view, and watch the receiver routes. Anytime the routes are all deeper than 10-15 yards, Carr has defenders in his face already. Frequently, he slides to the right (only to the right, which is one of his issues) and dumps off or manages to hit a receiver that's come back for the ball. You NEVER see Carr have a lot of time for a throw. I sit and watch the opposing teams and scream at the TV or the field (away or home) to get to the QB. Remember the long pass from Roethlisberger to Wilson last year on a critical 3rd down? I'm not exaggerating at all when I say Ben had at least 8 seconds to throw that ball. And it's not the norm, but that stuff NEVER happens for us.

Again, the QB has his part in all this and I am completely for replacing Carr. Regardless which QB we put back there, I want to see a better O-line. I don't judge O-line performance by sack totals or rushing yards - I judge it by watching with my own two eyes. There are days when this line doesn't outright suck, but even then, they aren't doing anything to win football games. That's the best that can be said about them. Isn't that the same problem we have with our QB?

I totally agree but would add that even when David has had a little time to throw the ball he hasn't made the play. He had Daniels down the middle and overthrew him. He had Andre down the sideline and underthrew him. There are very few times in a game that you have those opportunities and David hasn't taken advantage of them. Although I love him, the same could be said about Andre. There have been several times this year that if he makes the play that's been given him the outcome of the game is very different. JMO but that is why we are further away than people think. We have a bad OL and no playmakers.

jerek
12-15-2006, 10:24 AM
I think Peyton Manning along with other QB's would realize they don't have a good line and make pre-snap reads....If you're asking me if I think Peyton could have success behind our line the answer is: HE!! YES....

I'm not comparing Manning to Carr -- not by a long shot -- but it's pretty well documented at this point in his career that Manning looks bad against consistent pressure. The Colts have been bounced out of the playoffs every year by a team that successfully pressured him. Carr is often (when I say often, I mean relative to other QBs) pressured by 4- or 5-man rushes.

As has been suggested but mostly ignored, we have problems with both our QB's play and our O-line's play. When the two are related, it looks that much worse. Is Manning a better QB than Carr? Sure, no question about it. Would he have more success here? Again, no doubt. But I don't think he'd look nearly as good as he does in Indy.

thunderkyss
12-15-2006, 10:26 AM
Do you think Peyton Manning could avoid the heat David sees from game to game? Do you think he makes a three step drop any quicker than David?

I think Andre runs a 4.4 40yd dash. If David has around three seconds or less to throw, how is he ever gonna throw a 40 yard pass?

that may very well be true..... but it doesn't take away the 10 & 15 yard game. If we assume your numbers are correct, then with 3 seconds, we should be complaining about the 10 & 15 yard passing game that we have, but we don't.

We are complaining about the 3 & 6 yard passing game. we're begging David to throw it 10 yards on 3rd & 7.....

Another thing.... Peyton will hit his guys in stride. The biggest reason I think our passing game is so poor, is because David's accuracy has been so bad. If you want to tell me that David's accuracy was better in years prior, I'm fine with that, but this year, he leaves a lot to be desired. He hasn't been throwing the ball in the dirt like Alex Smith was in the first half of last nights game, but every thing David throws on the short crossing routes, and slants, have been behind the reciever....... and when he needs to lead the reciever down the sideline, he underthrows it. If he needs to underthrow it, he leads the reciever. If help is on the outside, he throws the ball to the outside. If help is on the inside, he throws it to the inside, and he throws the fade to the front of the endzone, and not the back.

I swear if David threw the ball this year, as accurately as his fans says that he has in the past, we'd be a 10 win team this season.

& by saying that, does not mean that I'm blaming all our losses on David Carr.

We'd be a 10 win team, if we had a single 100 yard rusher on this team, or if DD was healthy.

We'd be an 8 win team right now, if Andre hadn't dropped so many balls, or allowed one in particular to be stripped from him.

we'd have 6 wins now if Cook didn't choke under pressure. or if Salaam was a little bit younger, or if Dayne didn't break Spencers leg, or if Vernand Morency was still on this team.

I'm just saying(and you all know it's true) that if only David played better, and everything else stayed the same, we'd have more wins. I'd say the same about all the other players on this team, but we aren't discussing them right now.

real
12-15-2006, 10:28 AM
I'm not comparing Manning to Carr -- not by a long shot -- but it's pretty well documented at this point in his career that Manning looks bad against consistent pressure. The Colts have been bounced out of the playoffs every year by a team that successfully pressured him. Carr is often (when I say often, I mean relative to other QBs) pressured by 4- or 5-man rushes.

As has been suggested but mostly ignored, we have problems with both our QB's play and our O-line's play. When the two are related, it looks that much worse. Is Manning a better QB than Carr? Sure, no question about it. Would he have more success here? Again, no doubt. But I don't think he'd look nearly as good as he does in Indy.


I keep looking for it....


But i just can't find it......






I can't find one thing in your post to disagree with......:snobord:

TexanSoldier
12-15-2006, 10:30 AM
Bob McNair is the George Bush of professional football. He listened to the wrong people for too long and now he's stuck in a mess that is going to take time to get out of.

If anyone thinks McNair can come out and say "I've made a mistake" they have lost touch with reality.

And if anyone seriously hopes one of the Texans players is a bust they need to rethink why they are a fan of the TEAM.

dantem
12-15-2006, 10:38 AM
I think Peyton Manning along with other QB's would realize they don't have a good line and make pre-snap reads....If you're asking me if I think Peyton could have success behind our line the answer is: HE!! YES....



This statement has already been proven wrong, Look at the playoffs last year, when protection broke down for Manning, He looked exactly like Carr, and they lost the game.

TexasJedi
12-15-2006, 10:57 AM
I heard that and feel he is taking us for idiots . With last years draft I can see a coach saying ... I'd rather have Bush and Carr over Young and Davis ... I can't see any canidate saying if you get rid of Carr for Vince Young I'm quitting .

VY would buy that coach a three year pass ... his situation would be great . I feel the Texan fan base just got insulted ... and Vince got drug into the mud to protect Carr .
So, you are calling Mr. McNair a liar? Unless you have anything to back it up, it's not fair. Yesterday's interview/conference was for damage control purposes, no doubt, but I don't think Mr. McNair would make up facts.

And for the record, I do not think he took a "shot" (as Vinny characterized it) at VY when he said that a certain candidate would not want to come to the Texans if they drafted him. The way I see it he was stating what one candidate (of seven) said to him personally. That is it.

And here is the offending statement:

First, to the key decisions. I asked him about rumors that last winter he wasn't going to hire a head coach who didn't say glowing things about Carr.

"Not at all," he said. "In fact, I was just reviewing a notebook. I went back and looked at the interviews with the seven coaches. I asked every one of them one question: 'Can David Carr take us to the Super Bowl?' Every one of them said yes. One of them went so far as to say, 'If you make a change, if you draft Vince Young, I'm not coming to your team.'

"In his view, it would take Vince two or three years to get ready. David wasn't perfect at that time, but every one of them thought he had the ability and potential. They all felt they could get that out of him."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/4404173.html

How does that constitute a "shot"?

And again I ask who was that candidate? He clearly underestimated Vince.

valleytexfan
12-15-2006, 10:59 AM
You want Carr grooming another QB? I can see it now: "OK, after you snap the ball, check down right away and dump it off to your safety valve..."
...because there's no such thing as pass protection here....:)

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 10:59 AM
So, you are calling Mr. McNair a liar? Unless you have anything to back it up, it's not fair. Yesterday's interview/conference was for damage control purposes, no doubt, but I don't think Mr. McNair would make up facts.

And for the record, I do not think he took a "shot" (as Vinny characterized it) at VY when he said that a certain candidate would not want to come to the Texans if they drafted him. The way I see it he was stating what one candidate (of seven) said to him personally. That is it.

I agree, but I really wish McNair, had taken "a shot" at Vince.... He's a Titan, he's the enemy and no amount of bitchin' and moanin' will change that...

Porky
12-15-2006, 11:01 AM
Dude keep tacking on karma for Carr. I am collecting all the homer posts and hope carr is a bust myself.

Hoping he is a bust? That's over the top, and in really poor taste. I don't hope anyone is a bust, but in Carr's case, I don't hope he is or isn't a bust - he already is. A #1 overall pick who in his 5th year is incomptent IS a bust. Get the hope out of your lingo, rephrase it, and you might have something.

fhlh
12-15-2006, 11:15 AM
Carr will IMO play out (or sit out) his contract with the Texans. This team has so many other needs that they can't afford to spend FA $ or burn a draft pick on a QB. AND.....I think the Texans will be OK in spite of that. I am not so sure we are 1 year away from turning it around but over the next couple of years I think Kubiak is really going to create a solid base for this team and we are going to see big change occur.


agreed... a new and pricey QB with the same crappy o-line = same results.
beef up that o-line, McNair!

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2006, 11:16 AM
So, you are calling Mr. McNair a liar? Unless you have anything to back it up, it's not fair. Yesterday's interview/conference was for damage control purposes, no doubt, but I don't think Mr. McNair would make up facts.


I'm saying I don't believe everything that I hear .

I'm saying this reeks of damage control .

I'm saying you can't fool the locker room and if its true what some suspect ... this situation is an anchor that won't let us sail .

I was listening to Alonzo Highsmith and he said the defining word for a QB is hope ... that no matter what , your team feels like they can win ... no excuses .

mexican_texan
12-15-2006, 11:20 AM
Blame the line all you want. Tom Brady hasn't had a good O-line in the past two or three years, though.

Tailgate
12-15-2006, 11:27 AM
Blame the line all you want. Tom Brady hasn't had a good O-line in the past two or three years, though.

Just IM'ed my hard core Pats fan after reading this. I asked him if they were having O-line problems lately or for a while,etc. He just said basically pretty much only in the last game really. Says injuries mostly elsewhere and not on O-line like us.

Hmm... bad O-line play and they get shut out?

kfranco_utexas
12-15-2006, 11:29 AM
I agree, but I really wish McNair, had taken "a shot" at Vince.... He's a Titan, he's the enemy and no amount of bitchin' and moanin' will change that...

What shot? that the guy is a winner?!
Or a shot that he won the game for his team while making the Texans look stupid?

kfranco_utexas
12-15-2006, 11:30 AM
Bob McNair is the George Bush of professional football. He listened to the wrong people for too long and now he's stuck in a mess that is going to take time to get out of.

If anyone thinks McNair can come out and say "I've made a mistake" they have lost touch with reality.

And if anyone seriously hopes one of the Texans players is a bust they need to rethink why they are a fan of the TEAM.

So true. So true. So true:)

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 11:37 AM
Blame the line all you want. Tom Brady hasn't had a good O-line in the past two or three years, though.

Tom Brady has only been sacked 26 times in 2004, 26 times in 2005, and 23 time this season...

Are you seriously trying to make a comparison between the Patriots O-line and the Texans' O-line?

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 11:50 AM
At some point stuff like this has to breed a little resentment with the players. If they don't perform to expectations then they are cut or benched .... unless his name is David Carr. If I'm a lineman or RB then I'm pretty pissed that McNair just told the media I'm probably going to be replaced in the offseason because it's 100% my fault and not Carr's.

That is my whole point about this Carr apologist joke of an atmosphere. The other players must resent it. It's been a revolving door for everyone but Lil Davey. I am sick of this joke....and I am sick of Mr. McNair.

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 11:52 AM
That is my whole point about this Carr apologist joke of an atmosphere. The other players must resent it. It's been a revolving door for everyone but Lil Davey. I am sick of this joke....and I am sick of Mr. McNair.

Take your ball and go home to possum hollar.... :tease:

TexansSeminole
12-15-2006, 11:53 AM
What is it with McNair and Carr? "Must evaluate the weapons around him"? Wake up Bob, jesus christ.

dantem
12-15-2006, 11:55 AM
That is my whole point about this Carr apologist joke of an atmosphere. The other players must resent it. It's been a revolving door for everyone but Lil Davey. I am sick of this joke....and I am sick of Mr. McNair.

Maybee you should move over to the Titans board where you can worship your Vincegod in peace. Then it won't bother you that David Carr is still going to be the QB here for several more years.

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2006, 11:55 AM
That is my whole point about this Carr apologist joke of an atmosphere. The other players must resent it. It's been a revolving door for everyone but Lil Davey. I am sick of this joke....and I am sick of Mr. McNair.

I do agree ... in past conversations just like yesterday with Bob ... we were told that Carr needed a deep threat . Both AJ and Mathis finished second in the NFL's fastest man competition . Thats does'nt seem to be a problem .

TexansSeminole
12-15-2006, 11:57 AM
Seems like McNair doesn't know squat about football.

When you don't know squat about football, you should not make ANY football decisions.

thunderkyss
12-15-2006, 12:05 PM
Tom Brady has only been sacked 26 times in 2004, 26 times in 2005, and 23 time this season...

Are you seriously trying to make a comparison between the Patriots O-line and the Texans' O-line?

If Tom wasn't so good at getting away from pressure, his sacks would more than likely double.

I'm not saying that our OL is as good as the Patriots, but the QBs ability to avoid the sack plays a big part in a teams total sack #. just because David Carr was sacked some sevety-odd times his rookie season here in Houston, doesn't mean Brady would have been sacked some seventy-odd times behind the same line.

The Patriots gave up more sacks the year they won the SuperBowl(44??) than they did the previous year with Bledsoe.... yet Brady was able to do more with the time he was on the field that helped his team win, than Bledsoe was. & If anybody wants to tell me that it's a team game, and the Pats would have won 3 superbowls with Bledsoe I'd like have to ask him to pass the pipe. The QB is the most important player on a good team.

tulexan
12-15-2006, 12:17 PM
I don't know of many other teams that


A) Can't take 5 or 7 step drops because the QB will be immediately sacked

B) Can barely take 3 step drops without being immediately sacked.


The OL has been a problem since day one and will continue to be a problem until it is seriously addressed.

nunusguy
12-15-2006, 12:20 PM
I was listening to Alonzo Highsmith and he said the defining word for a QB is hope ... that no matter what , your team feels like they can win ... no excuses .
I also caught the end of Highsmith remarks on SR 610 this morning, and he said if Mario was still on the Board when his team picked they would have
taken him. Of course his team was picking #5. He's a scout for GB if you didn't know.
He added that he thinks that Mario will be a good defensive tackle, but he's not of the same level as VY or Bush. He described both, IIRC, as "once in a generation" type players.
And I wonder if his reference to Mario as a DT and not DE was a slip or what he really feels Mario is best suited for ?

tulexan
12-15-2006, 12:29 PM
I also caught the end of Highsmith remarks on SR 610 this morning, and he said if Mario was still on the Board when his team picked they would have
taken him. Of course his team was picking #5. He's a scout for GB if you didn't know.
He added that he thinks that Mario will be a good defensive tackle, but he's not of the same level as VY or Bush. He described both, IIRC, as "once in a generation" type players.
And I wonder if his reference to Mario as a DT and not DE was a slip or what he really feels Mario is best suited for ?

If Bush is a "once in a generation" type player than what are Adrian Peterson, Steve Slaton, and Darren McFadden?

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 12:29 PM
If Tom wasn't so good at getting away from pressure, his sacks would more than likely double.

I'm not saying that our OL is as good as the Patriots, but the QBs ability to avoid the sack plays a big part in a teams total sack #. just because David Carr was sacked some sevety-odd times his rookie season here in Houston, doesn't mean Brady would have been sacked some seventy-odd times behind the same line.

The Patriots gave up more sacks the year they won the SuperBowl(44??) than they did the previous year with Bledsoe.... yet Brady was able to do more with the time he was on the field that helped his team win, than Bledsoe was. & If anybody wants to tell me that it's a team game, and the Pats would have won 3 superbowls with Bledsoe I'd like have to ask him to pass the pipe. The QB is the most important player on a good team.

I agree with some of your points, but respectfully disagree with some. Let me preface by saying I'm not a Carr Pimp. That said, I wouldn't say that Brady is any more mobile than carr. I wonder how many of Brady's sacks are coverage sacks versus, sacks where the Qb has less than 2 seconds to drop back and try to get a throw off.

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 12:31 PM
If Bush is a "once in a generation" type player than what are Adrian Peterson, Steve Slaton, and Darren McFadden?

Collegiate players.... :tease: j/k

I certainly don't consider Bush a "once in a generation" type of player...

hollywood_texan
12-15-2006, 12:43 PM
I'm not the biggest David Carr fan.... but I think our memories might be a little short.

Carr has made plays before..... bouncing off a blitzer like AlexSmith did... maybe not, but we usually don't see that from someone of their size. The fact that it happened, was more the case of bad tackling than good QB pressure. I agree AS should be commended for keeping his head in that situation.... & odds are if that were David, it would have been a sack, poor tackling and all.

But the point remains David has made plays escaping the pocket. Against the Giants, he made a very nice run, and leaped over players to get into the endzone.

Of course there are other improvised plays where he threw the ball for the first, but nothing "amazing" pops out at me right now.

But the problem with David, is when he does it. If we have the lead David will not do that little extra, to keep a drive going, or to score a touchdown..... As we saw against Tennessee....... if we are within three, he won't. I might be wrong, but I can't think of anytime this year that we had a lead, that we scored a touchdown to increase our lead by 7, other than the Jacksonville @ Jax game........ but when the defense puts you on their 30, what are you going to do??

I will give you two examples.

Buffalo game --- I think it was the left tackle was blocking a guy through the pocket, and the left tackle bumped Carr and he felt to the ground. He didn't even try to get up and defensive lineman came over an touched him on the sack. This tells me two things, Carr had poor pocket presense on that play and the gave up on the play.

Tennessee game --- The first sack, Carr went in the fetal position to give up a sack. Again gave up on the play.

Take it for what it is worth, but I see over and over that Carr has poor pocket presense and gives up on plays. Sure Carr escapes from time to time and puts some extra effort, but it just doesn't seem to be close to enough. Whereas Alex Smith last night showed the opposite of that several times, which I think was the point of aj and that we can't recall ever seeing that from Carr.

Tayton
12-15-2006, 12:47 PM
That is my whole point about this Carr apologist joke of an atmosphere. The other players must resent it. It's been a revolving door for everyone but Lil Davey. I am sick of this joke....and I am sick of Mr. McNair.

Have whatever opinion you want but how do you have any idea what other players think? I haven't heard all the quotes but most players I've heard stated that David has handled himself pretty well.

hollywood_texan
12-15-2006, 12:48 PM
I don't know if this has been posted- There is a bit more, but this is the high points.

link: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/sports/16241245.htm

McNair said after watching Thursday's practice that he's as frustrated as anyone, but insists the team is close to a "monumental" breakthrough, as early as next season.

"If I didn't feel we were on the right track, I'd be a lot more concerned about it," he said........McNair still believes in Carr and said all he needs is playmakers around him.

McNair on the future of the Texans: "We're going to get it right. I have no doubt in my mind, we're going to win. We're going to be a big-time winner. And it's not going to be that long."

The more I stew on this article, it becomes so clear that Kubiak does not have complete control of the team. If Kubiak doesn't succeed, I think it will be for the same reason Capers couldn't succeed, a boss that stuck his fingers in areas that shouldn't be and couldn't admit he was wrong.

Also, McNair just gave VY some more bulletin board material. We don't know what was said in the those meetings when VY met Texans management and when they scouted him at the Texas Longhorn Pro Day, but I am sure this little article will give VY more reason to rub this in the Texans face.

hollywood_texan
12-15-2006, 12:55 PM
I'm not comparing Manning to Carr -- not by a long shot -- but it's pretty well documented at this point in his career that Manning looks bad against consistent pressure. The Colts have been bounced out of the playoffs every year by a team that successfully pressured him. Carr is often (when I say often, I mean relative to other QBs) pressured by 4- or 5-man rushes.

As has been suggested but mostly ignored, we have problems with both our QB's play and our O-line's play. When the two are related, it looks that much worse. Is Manning a better QB than Carr? Sure, no question about it. Would he have more success here? Again, no doubt. But I don't think he'd look nearly as good as he does in Indy.

Jerek, the Colts got punked in the jaw last year by Pittsburgh because the defensive scheme exposed a weakness in the Indy offense. I will spare you with the specifics. The problem was the Colts didn't adjust in that playoff game.

Even though it was a protection problem, it was really a gameplan problem.

hollywood_texan
12-15-2006, 12:58 PM
Do you think Peyton Manning could avoid the heat David sees from game to game? Do you think he makes a three step drop any quicker than David?

I think Andre runs a 4.4 40yd dash. If David has around three seconds or less to throw, how is he ever gonna throw a 40 yard pass?

If you have to lead the receiver. If he is hitting top speed runing a 4.4 already at 40 yards, how do you hit him in stride?

My point is, you are throwing the ball before he gets to that point.

Maybe your point is that there isn't enough time for routes to develop, fair enough.

Texans_Chick
12-15-2006, 12:59 PM
My take:

Link (http://nfl.aolsportsblog.com/2006/12/15/texans-owner-bob-mcnair-defends-david-carr/1#c2927776)

As just an observation and not as argument.....

There's some that say that look how good Harrington's move was for him.

Of course, when "they" say that, they don't talk about how awful the Lions have been.

Porky
12-15-2006, 12:59 PM
Bob McNair is the George Bush of professional football. He listened to the wrong people for too long and now he's stuck in a mess that is going to take time to get out of.

If anyone thinks McNair can come out and say "I've made a mistake" they have lost touch with reality.

And if anyone seriously hopes one of the Texans players is a bust they need to rethink why they are a fan of the TEAM.

He doesn't have to come out and say we made a mistake. How about just making a statement that they are disapointed in the teams progress this year, and everyone and everything is open to evualation at the end of the year. Instead, he came out with this gigantic vote of confidence for Carr, threw the rest of the offense under the bus, insulted Vince, and insulted the fans and media's intelligence. Way to endear yourself to the paying customers Mcnair.

I'm now 100% convinced that Mcnair is totally clueless as an NFL owner. They say an organizations success or failure starts at the top, and in the Texans case, I agree with that sentiment.

Mr. White
12-15-2006, 01:06 PM
"Do you think David Carr can take us to the Super Bowl?"

really means

"Are you a good enough coach to take this team to the Super Bowl without getting rid of the multi-million dollar face of my franchise?"

The question is loaded. Any interviewee is going to say yes to the question.

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 01:07 PM
I disagree with McNair being clueless as an NFL owner... There are many owners that let their "football people" run their organizations. Just because you invest your money in a football franchise, does not mean you are a football person... You can't have it both ways... Some of the most involved / hands on owners are hated... Jerrah Jones, Dan Snider, Al Davis...

Hulk75
12-15-2006, 01:11 PM
I was shocked nobody was talking about it...it was all over sports radio earlier. He took a shot at VY by saying that one head coach refused to come if they drafted him supposedly...so it looks like we will have Carr here for 2007.

What, are you shocked by Carr comming back, you mean the Media decided it was time for Carr to go and the fans wanted him traded (seeing how bad he is how could we trade him right?) and the guys that are around him every second of every game of every meeting did not agree with them?

You want to know anything else just let me know, no news shocker with me.

Kind of funny if you ask me. 51% is good though, keep running and he will end up like Vick in a couple years, was it not Vick that was supposed to re write the way QB is played.

Buffi2
12-15-2006, 01:19 PM
I've decided that McNair has a Master Plan. He is lulling other NFL teams into a false sense of an easy win and then WHAM! we start winning. I just wonder when the wham part of the plan starts.

nunusguy
12-15-2006, 01:20 PM
I disagree with McNair being clueless as an NFL owner
He may not be clueless, but he was classless and petty for taking a cheap shot
at VY like that. Shame on McNair. Sounds like the remark of a man who is
embarrassed and really frustrated by the predicament his team is in.
Hey, were all Texans fans here, but you gotta call like you see it. And McNair
was really struggling with those remarks.

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 01:27 PM
He may not be clueless, but he was classless and petty for taking a cheap shot
at VY like that. Shame on McNair. Sounds like the remark of a man who is
embarrassed and really frustrated by the predicament his team is in.
Hey, were all Texans fans here, but you gotta call like you see it. And McNair
was really struggling with those remarks.

He quoted what someone that he had interviewed stated. It sounds as though you beleive that he made that comment up. If he did, that is classless, however, I think its highly unlikely that he would. Everything that I have read or heard about the man would suggest otherwise... Don't base your beleifs on a blurb of a comment that could be misconstrued. There is plenty of information out there on him, read and then judge for yourself.

Oh and by the way, be thankfull that we have a HoustonTexans message board to even discuss this subject, because without McNair we wouldn't be here..

HOU-TEX
12-15-2006, 01:31 PM
He may not be clueless, but he was classless and petty for taking a cheap shot
at VY like that. Shame on McNair. Sounds like the remark of a man who is
embarrassed and really frustrated by the predicament his team is in.
Hey, were all Texans fans here, but you gotta call like you see it. And McNair
was really struggling with those remarks.

HE DID NOT SAY IT!

MightyTExan
12-15-2006, 01:31 PM
He doesn't have to come out and say we made a mistake. How about just making a statement that they are disapointed in the teams progress this year, and everyone and everything is open to evualation at the end of the year. Instead, he came out with this gigantic vote of confidence for Carr, threw the rest of the offense under the bus, insulted Vince, and insulted the fans and media's intelligence. Way to endear yourself to the paying customers Mcnair.

I'm now 100% convinced that Mcnair is totally clueless as an NFL owner. They say an organizations success or failure starts at the top, and in the Texans case, I agree with that sentiment.

Totally agree. It's not looking too good at this point. There's goes my hope for the offseason.

Hulk75
12-15-2006, 01:35 PM
I've decided that McNair has a Master Plan. He is lulling other NFL teams into a false sense of an easy win and then WHAM! we start winning. I just wonder when the wham part of the plan starts.

Time and FAITH, It will happen and he is a great owner.

I hope the fans dont turn into Yearly Bengals fans and give up hope of winning.

SLO Texan
12-15-2006, 01:40 PM
And while you're at it, demand QB play like we saw from the youngster Alex Smith last night in the 4th quarter against Seattle (making plays when protection completely breaks down as it does from time to time even on good teams). Even average QBs make plays every now and then - like when Smith shook off the blitzing DB, kept his eyes downfield, escaped to his left and threw a perfect little touch pass to Gore at the 5 to seal the win. There was another one just prior to that - a critical third down conversion - where Smith sidestepped heavy pressure in the pocket and threw a dart to the receiver about 15 yards downfield between four Seattle defenders. I'm hard pressed to recall take-control plays like that from our QB in 4 1/2 years. And as I sit there and watch these other games, I often imagine what our QB would do in similar situations (I know what he would do). Just once, I'd like to see our QB fight his way out of the pressure and hit someone more than 10 yards downfield. Trouble is -- he's not looking past five yards. Yeah ... but it's all the line's fault.


No where in my post did I declare that it was ALL the lines fault.You're the one implying that it's all Carrs fault which is just ignorant.

My point was that you cannot expect your ROOKIE QB to develop when you field an O-line that year in year out does not provide any quality pass protection. nor can you expect a descent passing game to develop.

Has Alex Smith been pounded into the ground 50 + times for the past 4 seasons in the NFL. I don't think so. This in addition to the coaching from Kubes and injury ridden line is why we see David dump off almost every play. David is being taught to not make mistakes this season, much like Kubiak did with Jake in the beginning.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that SF has a running game and line that provides more than enough protection for Alex.

The point of this thread to begin with is that all of you Carr hating, ignorant fools are gonna have to DEAL WITH IT!!!!! Because he aint going anywhere!!!

Hulk75
12-15-2006, 01:40 PM
He doesn't have to come out and say we made a mistake. How about just making a statement that they are disapointed in the teams progress this year, and everyone and everything is open to evualation at the end of the year. Instead, he came out with this gigantic vote of confidence for Carr, threw the rest of the offense under the bus, insulted Vince, and insulted the fans and media's intelligence. Way to endear yourself to the paying customers Mcnair.

I'm now 100% convinced that Mcnair is totally clueless as an NFL owner. They say an organizations success or failure starts at the top, and in the Texans case, I agree with that sentiment.

What did he say that was not true?

He said he believes in Carr. True
He said the guys around him have to play better and we need more guys. True
Insulted Vince. True but he was relying what another Coach said.
Insulting the fans and medias intelligence. If you were offended by it then he is talking to you and you dont feel comfortable with your knowledge of the game. True

Our owner has got a pair, good for him cause I am sure he is tired of what the fans and media think they should do.

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 01:43 PM
There's some really thin skin around here if that's an insult to Vince.

Hulk75
12-15-2006, 01:43 PM
Yeah ... but it's all the line's fault.

It is, is it that hard to understand it, we cant take a 7 step drop and when we do take a 5 he is haveing to run when his back foot touches, watch the film last week and it will show you, but you still want big plays, but we cant run the ball for 100 yards unless Carr gets 15 to 20 a game himself.

nunusguy
12-15-2006, 01:45 PM
He quoted what someone that he had interviewed stated. It sounds as though you beleive that he made that comment up. If he did, that is classless, however, I think its highly unlikely that he would. Everything that I have read or heard about the man would suggest otherwise... Don't base your beleifs on a blurb of a comment that could be misconstrued. There is plenty of information out there on him, read and then judge for yourself.

Oh and by the way, be thankfull that we have a HoustonTexans message board to even discuss this subject, because without McNair we wouldn't be here..
If he only "repeated" this comment about VY as what a candidate for the HC job said, then IMO
that is in and of itself a classless and petty remark.

SLO Texan
12-15-2006, 01:49 PM
How do you judge worst O-line ?

By sacks ?

I said ONE OF the worst O-lines and yes sacks is usually a good indicator. That and when defenders are in your backfield for the majority of the game. I'm not saying David does'nt need to improve as well but to say that we have had a GOOD O-line at any point is ludicrous. Maybe in the first 3 games this season, that's it.

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 01:49 PM
If he only "repeated" what he said a candidate for the HC job said, then IMO
that is in and of itself a classless and petty remark.

It would have been classless, if he had named names, yes. Repeating what someone interviewing for the HC position, isn't. Don't let your hatred for not drafting VY let this turn into something its not.. I like the fact that he criticized the previous regime (without naming names) for letting Glenn and Sharper get away. Was that classless? If so there are probably 31 owners out there that can be classified as classless.

Tale Gator
12-15-2006, 01:51 PM
McNair defending the Carr extension is like Bush defending his decision to invade Iraq.

WWJD
12-15-2006, 01:52 PM
I was sure the Texans would head in a different direction QB wise after what I've seen these last few games.

It's so very obvious David is not the QB this team needs leadership wise.

Now after reading Mr. McNair's comments it would seem David will be back next year. Too bad.

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 01:52 PM
McNair defending the Carr extension is like Bush defending his decision to invade Iraq.

Dude... That is the worst analogy ever. We are only talking about sports, not world affairs..... Ridiculous!

Hulk75
12-15-2006, 01:57 PM
He is a good owner?? You are just happy that he kept your QB that is all. It seems to me that all you care about is Carr.

Angry much, I care about every single one of those guys and respect them cause I know what they go through every week and every day.

And he is a good owner how about even having a message board about your HOUSTON texans, thanks for bringing it back Bob you suck, yea thats nice.

Sorry Vince is gone, why not go buy a Young Jersey and Titans coaster and go over there. Go Longhorns!

I never thought he was leaving for a second, you guys think the media and yourselves run everything, so when they say something like this is it for Carr and I dont think he willbe here next season and I think he will be traded before the draft you guys eat it up and expect it to happen cause they said it.............Someone find me a quote were Kubiak said anything like it. Guys say that he is using this season right now as an evaluation of the team, and I have heard him say more bad things about the line the past weeks then ever, so to me that is what he has decided is the most at need, and for McNair to say something about the RB situation lets me further know what Kubiak thinks we need............

This next year you can expect a RT and a star Running Back.

Heywood
12-15-2006, 02:00 PM
If he only "repeated" this comment about VY as what a candidate for the HC job said, then IMO
that is in and of itself a classless and petty remark.


you know i've disagreed with you plenty, but i want to prop you for saying that.

TexasJedi
12-15-2006, 02:01 PM
If it is considered classless by McNair to repeat what a candidate said to him, after reviewing his notes BTW; should it not also be considered a classless, cheap shot question by Richard Justice to ask McNair if it was a prerequisite to work with Carr in order to get the job? Afterall can't we infer that Justice's underlying motive in the question was why did the Texans not take VY? That is probably why McNair offered up the tidbit about Vince.

MightyTExan
12-15-2006, 02:01 PM
I guess the question is:

Do the players believe in Carr? I'd like an honest answer to that one.

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2006, 02:02 PM
Sorta ... McNair said that we did not have WMD .

TexanSoldier
12-15-2006, 02:02 PM
Dude... That is the worst analogy ever. We are only talking about sports, not world affairs..... Ridiculous!

Sports imitate life, that's why the storylines suck us in.

No matter what you believe McNair and Bush are in the same situation. Both are facing intense criticism for the decisions they let others talk them into, and because of PR in this country neither is going to openly admit to making a mistake.

That being said, I in no way am trying to get into politics on this board but facts are facts but calling it a bad analogy is ridiculous.

Hervoyel
12-15-2006, 02:03 PM
Is it me or does it sound like they are WAAAAAY to close for employer and employee? Golfing buddies perhaps?

Hmmmm, no. No way.

http://www.ghettobillies.com/fans/Halloween_-_The_Ambiguously_Gay_Duo.JPG

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 02:03 PM
If it is considered classless by McNair to repeat what a candidate said to him, after reviewing his note BTW; should it not also be considered a classless, cheap shot question by Richard Justice to ask McNair if it was a prerequisite to work with Carr in order to get the job? Afterall can't we infer that Justice's underlying motive in the question was why did the Texans not take VY? That is probably why McNair offered up the tidbit about Vince.

Good point, especially considering Justice's collegiate ties... Hmmmmm.

Heywood
12-15-2006, 02:04 PM
It would have been classless, if he had named names, yes. Repeating what someone interviewing for the HC position, isn't. Don't let your hatred for not drafting VY let this turn into something its not.. I like the fact that he criticized the previous regime (without naming names) for letting Glenn and Sharper get away. Was that classless? If so there are probably 31 owners out there that can be classified as classless.

he wasn't asked to confirm something a reporter knew, he volunteered it in a defensive posture. it was not only classless, it was cowardice.

vince young is a titan, but vince young is also a houstonian trying to do good. mcenron has gotten rich off houston- he can be a gracous houstonian. he should have said "we congratulate vince on doing well, when he's not plalying us" and smiled.

lots of crap is going south in the world of mcenron's private suite-mates, the bushes and the bakers and the swift-boaters and the like. mcenron is probably frustrated about that.

Heywood
12-15-2006, 02:05 PM
Good point, especially considering Justice's collegiate ties... Hmmmmm.

or, it could have been a backhand way of noting that, odds are, the "candidate" mcnair was referring to was kubiak (who else interviewed to that depth? we already know JJ was bid VY)

hollywood_texan
12-15-2006, 02:05 PM
What did he say that was not true?

He said he believes in Carr. True
He said the guys around him have to play better and we need more guys. True
Insulted Vince. True but he was relying what another Coach said.
Insulting the fans and medias intelligence. If you were offended by it then he is talking to you and you dont feel comfortable with your knowledge of the game. True

Our owner has got a pair, good for him cause I am sure he is tired of what the fans and media think they should do.

The good news about this, I am going to get to read Hulk's posts for several more years. To say they are humerous and brightens my day, is an understatement.

I would ask McNair the following questions concerning this article for clarification.

1. Was the interview candidate Coach Hill (I think that is his name, please help me out Hulk if I got it wrong) from Fresno State the one that said he didn't want Carr cut and Vince Young drafted? We should at least consider the source of the candidate and why they said it. Just throwing this comment out there is ridiculous to support his position. This comment shows McNair is blindfolded and throwing darts in the wrong direction!

2. Were there any candidates that expressed reservations about Carr?

3. Did you find any consultant that thought Carr was more of the problem and inspect his analysis? Basically, review both sides and make a decision from there. My point is, the decision was made so long ago and he isn't going to change it. Which makes Kubiak's job difficult.

This article seems plainly clear what I have been saying all along. McNair is running the Texans like a business and is going to get certain things no matter what. I worked in public accounting for several years to smell this a mile away, and McNair rekes of this odor.

McNair is going to stick with Carr at all costs, which is what I said earlier this week. Carr isn't going anywhere because he is too far into this deal and McNair is going to admit he was wrong.

What I don't understand is, he states the team is on the cusp of doing amazing things by as early as next season. That means we are only few players away, yet we still can't evaluate Carr fully because he doesn't have enough around him? I don't see how one draft and one free agency season is going to change the situation to provide that complete evaluation.

McNair is talking out of both sides of his mouth, he says "there are no short term answers", but "momumental" improvements could happen as early as next year.

I am so disgusted with McNair the more I read this article.

TexanSoldier
12-15-2006, 02:07 PM
I am so disgusted with McNair the more I read this article.

I have to agree.

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2006, 02:10 PM
Hmmmm, no. No way.

http://www.ghettobillies.com/fans/Halloween_-_The_Ambiguously_Gay_Duo.JPG

You mean they are Ace and Gary ... I know the problem then . McNair needs to be the center .

Mr. White
12-15-2006, 02:14 PM
I haven't seen this article (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/texans/4404173.html) yet on here. It puts it into perspective a little more.

Rumors unfounded

First, to the key decisions. I asked him about rumors that last winter he wasn't going to hire a head coach who didn't say glowing things about Carr.

"Not at all," he said. "In fact, I was just reviewing a notebook. I went back and looked at the interviews with the seven coaches. I asked every one of them one question: 'Can David Carr take us to the Super Bowl?' Every one of them said yes. One of them went so far as to say, 'If you make a change, if you draft Vince Young, I'm not coming to your team.'

"In his view, it would take Vince two or three years to get ready. David wasn't perfect at that time, but every one of them thought he had the ability and potential. They all felt they could get that out of him."

I'm not really sure that he's throwing VY under the bus, but I could see how someone might think that.


McNair is talking out of both sides of his mouth, he says "there are no short term answers", but "momumental" improvements could happen as early as next year.


I couldn't agree more.

Hulk75
12-15-2006, 02:15 PM
The good news about this, I am going to get to read Hulk's posts for several more years. To say they are humerous and brightens my day, is an understatement.

I would ask McNair the following questions concerning this article for clarification.

1. Was the interview candidate Coach Hill (I think that is his name, please help me out Hulk if I got it wrong) from Fresno State the one that said he didn't want Carr cut and Vince Young drafted? We should at least consider the source of the candidate and why they said it. Just throwing this comment out there is ridiculous to support his position. This comment shows McNair is blindfolded and throwing darts in the wrong direction!

2. Were there any candidates that expressed reservations about Carr?

3. Did you find any consultant that thought Carr was more of the problem and inspect his analysis? Basically, review both sides and make a decision from there. My point is, the decision was made so long ago and he isn't going to change it. Which makes Kubiak's job difficult.

This article seems plainly clear what I have been saying all along. McNair is running the Texans like a business and is going to get certain things no matter what. I worked in public accounting for several years to smell this a mile away, and McNair rekes of this odor.

McNair is going to stick with Carr at all costs, which is what I said earlier this week. Carr isn't going anywhere because he is too far into this deal and McNair is going to admit he was wrong.

What I don't understand is, he states the team is on the cusp of doing amazing things by as early as next season. That means we are only few players away, yet we still can't evaluate Carr fully because he doesn't have enough around him? I don't see how one draft and one free agency season is going to change the situation to provide that complete evaluation.

McNair is talking out of both sides of his mouth, he says "there are no short term answers", but "momumental" improvements could happen as early as next year.

I am so disgusted with McNair the more I read this article.

I am glad I could be here to make it fun for you..............Let me know when my words dont hold water and we can discuss all you want.:)

Heywood
12-15-2006, 02:16 PM
the only thing bob mcnair and drayton mclane have in common is the "mc" in their names.

mclane is now the best owner in baseball. he's committed to building the value of the franchise using winning as a key cog. he's like steinbrenner in that regard, but mclane does have a budget. slight edge mclane over steinbrenner.

mcnair is i believe the worst owner in the NFL, save perhaps the ford family. at least the fords spend up in their incompetence. to get to this level, mcnair had to fall below the bidwills, quite a feat. at least the bidwills seem to watch the games and respond to them.

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2006, 02:18 PM
Hulk ... you know why the chicken is the worlds smartest animal ? It does'nt cackle until after it lays the egg .

The will not be solved until the first game of 2007 .

Hulk75
12-15-2006, 02:18 PM
Yeah and Mclain is a great owner as well then for giving us a Astros message board and saying things like he sucks. I however like Mclain because he is commited to win and care about his fans.BTW the media and fans that are unhappy can get things done. Since you do not follow the Astros the Media and fans wanted Jimmy Williams gone even though Drayton didn't want him gone until after the season. Well with enough pressure Drayton was scared to lose buisness and released Jimmy Williams and hired Phil Garner. So yes we fans and the media have power. If he is back next year you will see the difference.

So let me get this right, that was your call?

Maybe true with the Astros, not the Texans obviosly.

Double Barrel
12-15-2006, 02:18 PM
This article seems plainly clear what I have been saying all along. McNair is running the Texans like a business and is going to get certain things no matter what.

I have to disagree a little bit here, because the point of running a business is to make money. Nothing would have made more money for this franchise than drafting Vince Young or Reggie Bush. Choosing Mario and keeping Carr are probably stupid decisions from a purely business marketing standpoint, simply because they do not offer the immediate returns on investment. I'm sure he believes that these investments will pay dividends in the long term, but it's a gamble, where Bush or Young would have sold tons of merchandise immediately without waiting for wins.

I think it comes down to an owner that has surrounded himself with football 'experts' who tell him that Carr is a good QB that needs talent around him, and Mr. McNair is just parroting what he's been advised. He's saying these words to cover the employees that he's hired to run his team and protecting their decisions. I think it is as simple as that, to be honest.

TexanSoldier
12-15-2006, 02:18 PM
mcnair is i believe the worst owner in the NFL, save perhaps the ford family. at least the fords spend up in their incompetence. to get to this level, mcnair had to fall below the bidwills, quite a feat. at least the bidwills seem to watch the games and respond to them.


Al Davis.

Meloy
12-15-2006, 02:20 PM
I read it as McNair simply defending the decision to go a different way. Could he have voiced it differently? Yes. Goes under casting first stone to me.

Hulk75
12-15-2006, 02:21 PM
Hulk ... you know why the chicken is the worlds smartest animal ? It does'nt cackle until after it lays the egg .

The will not be solved until the first game of 2007 .

Okay!:tease:

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 02:22 PM
I have to agree.

Don't read... I on the other hand rather enjoy it...

Also, I have to disagree with you Soldier (respectfully) about Life imitating Sports or vice versa.

At the beginning of the year, do you budget your finances for tickets under "necessities" or "entertainment"? The NFL is entertainment. You (unless you are a shareholder that I don't know about) nor me, are vested in the team. That is to say, yes we spend money, and yes we invest our emotions (which anyone that posts on these boards does as well, no matter what side of the fence they are on - so props to everyone for posting) in this team, but we receive no financial windfall from them. Therefore it is purely entertainment. If some people give up their season tickets, so be it, but more than likely those folks will spend that disposable income elsewhere (i.e. go to Talladega) - entertainment...

That was a little off topic, but it soooooo nice that McNair has given us a forum to discuss these topics and a team to talk about...

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 02:27 PM
Yeah and Mclain is a great owner as well then for giving us a Astros message board and saying things like he sucks. I however like Mclain because he is commited to win and care about his fans.BTW the media and fans that are unhappy can get things done. Since you do not follow the Astros the Media and fans wanted Jimmy Williams gone even though Drayton didn't want him gone until after the season. Well with enough pressure Drayton was scared to lose buisness and released Jimmy Williams and hired Phil Garner. So yes we fans and the media have power. If he is back next year you will see the difference.

You really think so?... LOL.... Talk to Biggio and Bagwell about Williams being fired..... But if it helps your self worth, continue to beleive that.

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2006, 02:29 PM
Okay!:tease:

Carr's got three games to fall deeper into the abyss . They play the Pats , Colts, and Browns . Two are at home ... after these remarks it could get ugly .

Right now I think its 50/50 he'll be back . He's not gonna do much in the last three games so we'll see .

Hulk75
12-15-2006, 02:32 PM
Carr's got three games to fall deeper into the abyss . They play the Pats , Colts, and Browns . Two are at home ... after these remarks it could get ugly .

Right now I think its 50/50 he'll be back . He's not gonna do much in the last three games so we'll see .

Are the Texans playing or just David?

TexanSoldier
12-15-2006, 02:32 PM
Yeah and Mclain is a great owner as well then for giving us a Astros message board and saying things like he sucks. I however like Mclain because he is commited to win and care about his fans.BTW the media and fans that are unhappy can get things done. Since you do not follow the Astros the Media and fans wanted Jimmy Williams gone even though Drayton didn't want him gone until after the season. Well with enough pressure Drayton was scared to lose buisness and released Jimmy Williams and hired Phil Garner. So yes we fans and the media have power. If he is back next year you will see the difference.

Yes, McLane does listen to the voice of the fans, but it has no real bearing on his final decisions, i.e. Brad Lidge still being the closer.

Both McLane and McNair will always make the most financially sound decision, regardless of what gets written anywhere.

tsip
12-15-2006, 02:33 PM
Look at it this way--next year is all on McNair. As an owner, he will either sink or swim with Carr. He's betting that we're going to see a different side of Carr that will actually include a 'bona fide' NFL QB. Where will that side come from?

JMO, but nothing is going to change with Carr, except maybe we''ll hear some 'new' excuses for his play.

McNair has 'drawn a line' in the sand that says Carr is here to stay, and he should be prepared to back it up even when the stadium is empty (not a sell out anymore) and he's losing money.

As for Kubiak, he'll either start smiling at press conferences or continue to look unhappy--who knows, maybe he'll decide he doesn't like his situation and jump ship.

I got an 'uneasy feeling' that all is not 'honky dory' in the 'land of the Texans.'

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 02:34 PM
Have whatever opinion you want but how do you have any idea what other players think? I haven't heard all the quotes but most players I've heard stated that David has handled himself pretty well.

I didn't profess to saying I know what other players think. I said that they must resent the excuse factory that is the Texans organization. Of course the players are going to support David Carr, if they dont they are shown the door (see G. Walker, R. Smith, J. Sharper) Same with the organization itself. The first honest comment Mark Vandermeer makes about David Carr will be the first honest comment Mark makes....I dont blame him either. He has a family to support and anything other than the 'party line' gets you fired.

McNair is a freaking joke right about now...like it or not its fact.

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2006, 02:35 PM
Are the Texans playing or just David?

He's the guy who has set the limbo bar at 6' .

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 02:36 PM
Hmmmm, no. No way.

http://www.ghettobillies.com/fans/Halloween_-_The_Ambiguously_Gay_Duo.JPG

Which one is David and which one is Bob? I heard David was a pitcher in high school :)

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 02:40 PM
I'm sorry.... That picture is just too funny!

old football fan
12-15-2006, 02:48 PM
When I sit here and read all of these comments I must admire the sportswritters and broadcasters of this town for doing a terrific job. They have all of you believing everything they say. When was the last time they played football? coached an NFL team? owned an NFL team? been a scout on an NFL team? None of the above for any of them. You keep on listening to these deadbeats while I keep laughing at you.

santo
12-15-2006, 02:56 PM
When I sit here and read all of these comments I must admire the sportswritters and broadcasters of this town for doing a terrific job. They have all of you believing everything they say. When was the last time they played football? coached an NFL team? owned an NFL team? been a scout on an NFL team? None of the above for any of them. You keep on listening to these deadbeats while I keep laughing at you.


You mean to tell me that they are making up all this stuff so that they can get better ratings, sell more magazines and newspaper subcriptions?

:shocked

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 02:56 PM
When I sit here and read all of these comments I must admire the sportswritters and broadcasters of this town for doing a terrific job. They have all of you believing everything they say. When was the last time they played football? coached an NFL team? owned an NFL team? been a scout on an NFL team? None of the above for any of them. You keep on listening to these deadbeats while I keep laughing at you.

Based on this franchise's current direction and leadership, I would venture to say that my 4 year old daughter knows more about football than McNair does. These sportswriters have shown just as much knowledge than McNair has. McNair continues to make excuses for his golden boy, while fans such as yourself just keep towing the party line.

You guys claim everything is going to be ok and to let the football people make the football decisions....well that is how we got in this mess in the first place. These guys have no clue and it all starts with McNair. But whatever, to each his own. I just cant tolerate moronic decision after moronic decision from the Front Office. I have had enough and I am in the majority imho.

What are the sportswriters supposed to write about? Give Carr another extension? Another sub 500 season? Another year of boring and unentertaining football? They just tell the truth because they are not on McNair's payroll...McNair is a freaking joke

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 02:59 PM
So let me get this right, that was your call?

Maybe true with the Astros, not the Texans obviosly.

Yeah the Astros are actually trying to win whereas McNair is just trying to spin. Well he can Sit and Spin for all I care.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/dvanhorne29/sitandspin.jpg

old football fan
12-15-2006, 03:06 PM
How do you know that R. Justice acttually had an interview with McNair? Did you see it, did you sit in on it? As far as mistakes go, yes they have made mistakes, but other than the owner, all of those people have moved on and you must admit that the last draft was a pretty productive group of players.

Mr. White
12-15-2006, 03:09 PM
How do you know that R. Justice acttually had an interview with McNair? Did you see it, did you sit in on it?

Because it's in the paper (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/texans/4404173.html).

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 03:27 PM
I guess my frustration is born from the fact that this was one of the few comments Bob has given this year in regards to its performance to date for this season. To whitewash everything and basically say 'i am satisfied and everything is ok as is' is a slap in the face to all the fans and his investment partners. If this team was in a more diehard sports town, the owner would be held over the proverbial coals for those comments.

Sadly, an attitude of general apathy is already creeping over this young franchise, its players, and its fans. One of the players needs to step up and say something. Its obvious the coaches and Front Office personnel are happy just cashing their checks. McNair knows the investment on the PSLs pretty much guarantees a good amount of season ticket holder retention for the near future....he has his money, he doesnt seem to care....Bud was greedy but at least he would make moves, fire people, bring big names in, etc....and lets just say Bud's week went a little better than Bob's did...it was worst case scenario for all of us in Houston

tsip
12-15-2006, 03:28 PM
When I sit here and read all of these comments I must admire the sportswritters and broadcasters of this town for doing a terrific job. They have all of you believing everything they say. When was the last time they played football? coached an NFL team? owned an NFL team? been a scout on an NFL team? None of the above for any of them. You keep on listening to these deadbeats while I keep laughing at you.

There are other media from this area--Andre Ware and Craig James, for example, that have had many thoughts on the Texans. Ware does Texan radio, while James has done our pre-season games, as well as tons of other 'media stuff' for the NFL and NCAA...

Too, listen to the TV Commentators? IMO, they tell both the 'good' and the 'bad.'

TexansSeminole
12-15-2006, 03:40 PM
The Texans as a whole (organization, players, fans) seem to be looking worse and worse as this year goes by.

McNair has never shown me how much he really knew about football until now.

And that is absolutely nothing.

You can bad rep me all you want (I really dont care about rep), I dont have to show anything, we are talking about the owner here. Get a clue about what we are talking about first. (Whoever gave me bad rep)

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 03:43 PM
There are other media from this area--Andre Ware and Craig James, for example, that have had many thoughts on the Texans. Ware does Texan radio, while James has done our pre-season games, as well as tons of other 'media stuff' for the NFL and NCAA...

Too, listen to the TV Commentators? IMO, they tell both the 'good' and the 'bad.'

the TV commentators for CBS/FOX are not employed by McNair so they tell it like it is. anyone working for McNair is continuing to follow the never ending parade of excuses and bad football right down Kirby...after all, he is signing their checks.

anywho, if Carr is back I will have 4 Section 134 Row N tickets for sale next year. Will sell at face value if you buy all 10 games (includes 2 preseason). $650 a seat for the whole year (roughly).

TexansSeminole
12-15-2006, 03:47 PM
Why does McNair insist on blaming the rest of the offense and never placing blame on Carr?

Heywood
12-15-2006, 03:47 PM
.

anywho, if Carr is back I will have 4 Section 134 Row N tickets for sale next year. Will sell at face value if you buy all 10 games (includes 2 preseason). $650 a seat for the whole year (roughly).

face value? as clint eastwood said, that's mighty white of you.

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 03:48 PM
The Texans as a whole (organization, players, fans) seem to be looking worse and worse as this year goes by.

McNair has never shown me how much he really knew about football until now.

And that is absolutely nothing.

You can bad rep me all you want (I really dont care about rep), I dont have to show anything, we are talking about the owner here. Get a clue about what we are talking about first. (Whoever gave me bad rep)

Oh, you should look at my reputation screen. It's littered with garbage and personal attacks. I wear the negative rep like a badge of honor around here....your neither homer or hater, your just a good fan

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 03:51 PM
face value? as clint eastwood said, that's mighty white of you.

That section is probably one of the best values for the money. That is why we chose it back in the day. You get the endzone experience without having to play the entire endzone premium. We are right next to the Visitor's Entrance onto the field...and you arent so low that you cant see the action. 14th row is a great vantage point for both the team and the cheerleaders (the latter being the more entertaining of the two lately)

dantem
12-15-2006, 03:55 PM
You guys cried crucify him!!, crucify him!!, we wanted Vince. The coach ignored you, You then called into john and lance and they agreed with you that David needs to go. but the coach said "He's doing some good things." You didn't here that, because you were sure that you were in control of the Texans organization. So you started arguing over who would take his place, Finally the Owner says "Enough of this nonsense, David is our Guy". Then it dawns on you, They're not listening to us, how dare they... "Bob McNair is the worst owner in the NFL" , "He has no class", "He dosn't really mean it, everybody wants DC gone" Then a poll on this very board says less than half of the posters want DC gone.

If Bob McNair did everything the noise makers in the Texans fan base wanted, this team would go nowhere. As soon as Carr was gone, you would find someone else to target, and go after them.

Reality, Your whining has no effect on the decisions of the Texans front office. They do not need you, there will always be someone to take your seat when you leave.

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 03:56 PM
anywho, if Carr is back I will have 4 Section 134 Row N tickets for sale next year. Will sell at face value if you buy all 10 games (includes 2 preseason). $650 a seat for the whole year (roughly).

Seriously, sign me up. I'll take it all off your hands. PM me.

TexansSeminole
12-15-2006, 04:02 PM
It is good that he is standing by Carr. Good or bad play from Carr, I dont expect the owner to be talking about how the guy is playing. It is not good that he seems to be placing blame on other players though. In my mind, as the owner, you either know about football and make some football decisions WITH your staff or you dont know about football and you hand all football decisions over to your staff. I can't really tell what McNair is doing. It seems pretty obvious now, to me anyway, that he doesn't know enough to make any football decisions for this team.

I saw an interview with Bud Adams where he said he talked to fisher and the titans GM and said he wanted their minds on VY on draft day. He didn't care who else they drafted. See, I can't tell if McNair is doing the same thing with Carr. Maybe he is telling Kubiak and Rick Smith that he doesn't care what direction they go with their draft picks and such but they have to keep Carr.

I dunno I am just typing random thoughts out of my head.

hollywood_texan
12-15-2006, 04:06 PM
I have to disagree a little bit here, because the point of running a business is to make money. Nothing would have made more money for this franchise than drafting Vince Young or Reggie Bush. Choosing Mario and keeping Carr are probably stupid decisions from a purely business marketing standpoint, simply because they do not offer the immediate returns on investment. I'm sure he believes that these investments will pay dividends in the long term, but it's a gamble, where Bush or Young would have sold tons of merchandise immediately without waiting for wins.

I think it comes down to an owner that has surrounded himself with football 'experts' who tell him that Carr is a good QB that needs talent around him, and Mr. McNair is just parroting what he's been advised. He's saying these words to cover the employees that he's hired to run his team and protecting their decisions. I think it is as simple as that, to be honest.

DB, your bring up a great point to my position.

Here is the difference, running a business and being successful is not the same as winning in the NFL because the economic pie for business is not limited to clear winners and losers. A business owner can make poor decisions, and if he has the right economic environment, brand name, and connections, he can still grow his company.

As for running an NFL team, there are clear winners and losers every Sunday and every season.

As for McNair parroting what he is advised, I think he puts people around him to give him what he wants to paper the file to document the decision he already wants. It is just a show and a great example of that is Dan Reeves last year and his little consulting gig.

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 04:09 PM
Oh yeah, Bud's fingers were all over the whole VY drafting in Tennessee....i know Chow wanted Leinart, and Fisher was leaning towards Leinart being a USC alum and knowing Chow/Leinart worked really well in college. It seemed to me that Reese was leaning towards VY basically being an emissary for the owner. Nothing made Bud happier than Vince being on the board. Remember how when their pick came up there was no hesitation or waiting on the pick. Tagliabue was back up on the podium in no time flat saying 'With the 3rd pick of the 2006 NFL Draft, the Tennesse Titans select Vince Young from the University of Texas'. The word had come from up top and Bud would not be denied...looks like its working out pretty good for him

TexansSeminole
12-15-2006, 04:12 PM
Oh yeah, Bud's fingers were all over the whole VY drafting in Tennessee....i know Chow wanted Leinart, and Fisher was leaning towards Leinart being a USC alum and knowing Chow/Leinart worked really well in college. It seemed to me that Reese was leaning towards VY basically being an emissary for the owner. Nothing made Bud happier than Vince being on the board. Remember how when their pick came up there was no hesitation or waiting on the pick. Tagliabue was back up on the podium in no time flat saying 'With the 3rd pick of the 2006 NFL Draft, the Tennesse Titans select Vince Young from the University of Texas'. The word had come from up top and Bud would not be denied...looks like its working out pretty good for him

Not that it is good, for Tennessee, that Bud Adams makes decisions like that (their first round draft choice), but it seems like he made the right decision.

I would assume that he does not do that very often.

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 04:16 PM
DB, your bring up a great point to my position.

Here is the difference, running a business and being successful is not the same as winning in the NFL because the economic pie for business is not limited to clear winners and losers. A business owner can make poor decisions, and if he has the right economic environment, brand name, and connections, he can still grow his company.

As for running an NFL team, there are clear winners and losers every Sunday and every season.

As for McNair parroting what he is advised, I think he puts people around him to give him what he wants to paper the file to document the decision he already wants. It is just a show and a great example of that is Dan Reeves last year and his little consulting gig.

Case in point was him keeping Casserley around so Cass could take the bullet for drafting Mario and resigning Carr to extension. Casserley was just a meat shield for McNair and Kubes. It wasnt Kubiak defending the Mario pick on ESPN. It was Casserley, and it was purely to 'absorb the blow' and be a punching bag for the fanbase......McNair is more worried about spin and PR than he is about winning and of that there is no question

Texan_Bill
12-15-2006, 04:16 PM
Not that it is good, for Tennessee, that Bud Adams makes decisions like that (their first round draft choice), but it seems like he made the right decision.

I would assume that he does not do that very often.

He got this one right.. BUT, for everyone that he gets right, there are the 10x's the Bum Phillips and Earls that he didn't...

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2006, 04:18 PM
Not that it is good, for Tennessee, that Bud Adams makes decisions like that (their first round draft choice), but it seems like he made the right decision.

I would assume that he does not do that very often.

He doesnt do it often but any football fan who had watched Vince Young snatch victory from the jaws of defeat game after game for Texas, would have done the same thing if they were lucky enough to own a NFL football team. Then Bud got the added love of getting to trot him out for his former brethren..im sure that didnt suck

unlike McNair's football team, the Titans dont have this general disdain towards players from the University of Texas at Austin. Let's just say drafting some longhorn nicknamed The Tyler Rose worked out really well for Bud as well as all of us...he wasn't about to pass on the next great Longhorn..no doubt about it

but whatever, we can keep drafting workout warriors from third tier West Coast football programs and basketball schools....

TexansSeminole
12-15-2006, 04:18 PM
He got this one right.. BUT, for everyone that he gets right, there are the 10x's the Bum Phillips and Earls that he didn't...

Looks like he got it right so far.