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View Full Version : Mario Williams Held?


TEXANS84
12-14-2006, 09:15 AM
You make the call:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/theohux/TexansVSTennessee2006172.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/theohux/TexansVSTennessee2006173.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/theohux/TexansVSTennessee2006174.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/theohux/TexansVSTennessee2006177.jpg

infantrycak
12-14-2006, 09:17 AM
Both the refs were dazzled by VY's blinding radiance and missed it--not there fault, they should have had shades on.

real
12-14-2006, 09:18 AM
Forget that....

What in the heck was C.C thinking ?

Honoring Earl 34
12-14-2006, 09:18 AM
Mario and Weaver are being held . Look at 92 in the middle .

real
12-14-2006, 09:19 AM
Why did Mario stop ?

jerek
12-14-2006, 09:21 AM
More than this play. There were at least three different times I observed him being held with no call. And that's without reviewing any tape.

Another point worth mentioning. Mario certainly doesn't get "doubled every play" but a common tactic that I am noticing is where the TE or RB chips him before releasing -- getting in his way and putting a hit on him, stunting his momentum, giving the blocker time to catch up and finish taking him out of the play. I see him targeted this way much more than our other DL. And there are other instances in which he is outright doubled.

Given that we're short our starting tackles right now and that Weaver has never been a true pass rusher -- let alone Mario's foot troubles -- it's easy to understand his difficulties of late.

Can you forward a link to this thread to the league office? :)

Blu
12-14-2006, 09:23 AM
Why did Mario stop ?

Looks like Mario wanted the flag. After seeing these pics so do I..oh well, life as a Texan fan sucks...but I still have faith.

Mr. White
12-14-2006, 09:24 AM
Did you take these pictures, T84?

Looks like Mario was blatantly getting held by the definition that I understand. (The O-lineman holding onto the outside shoulder.)

Can't really tell with Weaver.

Honoring Earl 34
12-14-2006, 09:24 AM
My question then is ... does the NFL treat rookies ( VY and RB excluded ) like the NBA and you don't get calls until your a star ?

Mr. White
12-14-2006, 09:25 AM
You make the call:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/theohux/TexansVSTennessee2006177.jpg


Looks like he's calling for the flag in this picture. I saw VY do the same thing earlier in the day.

El Tejano
12-14-2006, 09:26 AM
I have to say that Vince fumbled also but there was no way they were reviewing.

Mean Machine
12-14-2006, 09:31 AM
Not to call him out, because I really like him, but what's Dunta doing after #10 broke free from the pocket?
Never ever give up on a play.

TEXANS84
12-14-2006, 09:33 AM
Did you take these pictures, T84?

Looks like Mario was blatantly getting held by the definition that I understand. (The O-lineman holding onto the outside shoulder.)

Can't really tell with Weaver.

No, it was on HornFans.com. A UT fan was gloating about "the run".

http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=4676473&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

texasguy346
12-14-2006, 09:34 AM
He was held, but holding goes uncalled alot. I really don't like that he stopped pursuing VY & started looking for a flag. Should it have been called? Sure, but these kinds of things happen all the time. Next time Mario needs to finish the play then look for the flag.

kenneth24
12-14-2006, 09:34 AM
FUMBLE!!! The refs can review a punt but not a play that mattered!

That call should have been made by the referee (:shades: )on the holding since it looks so blatant.

But we are crying over spilled milk here and can't change it now.

PapaL
12-14-2006, 09:36 AM
Its only illegal if it gets called. Holding happens on every play. But when >< is involved - it doesnt matter.

kenneth24
12-14-2006, 09:37 AM
but amazing how it is right in front of the ref and no call

Runner
12-14-2006, 09:42 AM
I thought it was holding when I watched for it on replay. The o-lineman stretched Mario's jersey grabbing the armsaye.

HOU-TEX
12-14-2006, 09:47 AM
Holding or not, he has to learn to use his hands to break free of that. He's definetly strong enough. He'll learn.:yes:

eriadoc
12-14-2006, 10:18 AM
I think they should design a breakaway jersey for him. When it gets ripped off by the offensive lineman, you think the refs will have to call holding? lol

powerfuldragon
12-14-2006, 10:24 AM
Not to call him out, because I really like him, but what's Dunta doing after #10 broke free from the pocket?
Never ever give up on a play.
He looks like he's hopping up and down as if to say, "is it really happening?"

I think they should design a breakaway jersey for him. When it gets ripped off by the offensive lineman, you think the refs will have to call holding? lol
That's not a bad idea.

Vinny
12-14-2006, 10:26 AM
watching the vid it happens fast and the pictures look worse....the most dissapointing part is Mario stopping.

Double Barrel
12-14-2006, 10:29 AM
More than this play. There were at least three different times I observed him being held with no call. And that's without reviewing any tape.

We saw it all day long, too. Freakin' pathetic the double-standards that NFL referees are allowed to have these days. It's getting to be like the NBA's refusal to call fouls on superstar players because of bottom line concerns.

I actually lose a little respect for the league the longer this goes on, because I have a hard time respecting something that is so obviously unbalanced.

It's not crying over spilt milk to review these games and point out rather obvious inconsistencies and blown calls. It's freakin' b.s. on the part of officials and the league.

I have to say that Vince fumbled also but there was no way they were reviewing.

Fumble all the way, and rather pathetic that the refs blew the whistle so quickly. It was the first time that I've ever spontaneously jumped up and yelled profanity at a sporting event. It just pisses me off when these calls are blown and they impact the game.

V Man
12-14-2006, 10:31 AM
I remember early in the game (maybe even first series). Henry bounced a run off right tackle for about 10. The anouncers were talking about how big and powerful the Titans right tackle was and that he controlled Mario Williams. But when they showed the replay, his arm was around Williams and grabbing the numbers on the back of Williams jersey. Last time I checked that was holding (and even the anouncers said it later in the game on one of our holding calls "if your arm is around the defender it is holding"). So it seems they were holding all game and not calling it, so why should this one no call surprise anyone.

rittenhouserobz
12-14-2006, 10:32 AM
I have been watching the NFL 2 decades. The video is getting better, but the officials seem to stay the same. There are still calls missed and phantom calls. I just wish that during crucial moments of the game a penalty called could be reviewed. It might bring a little justice to the game. I still remember the league apologizing to the Giants for a blown call. That kind of thing could be prevented with replay. Yes Mario was held, and he will be held again without a call. He needs to get past that moment and focus on the next move instead of waving for a flag.

Sportsfan
12-14-2006, 10:34 AM
Where did you get these? Did you take them or is there somewhere online where you can see game film like this?

jerek
12-14-2006, 10:38 AM
watching the vid it happens fast and the pictures look worse....the most dissapointing part is Mario stopping.

I can condone the decision insofar as it was an instaneous judgment call. He was probably out of the play at that point, so (a) stop and complain, hope to draw the call, or (b) probably get beat any way. If he consistently gave up on plays it might be a problem for me, but I don't think he does. If he had stopped and drawn the call, which probably wasn't an unreasonable expectation, we'd all be praising his "veteran presence."

infantrycak
12-14-2006, 10:49 AM
I can condone the decision insofar as it was an instaneous judgment call. He was probably out of the play at that point, so (a) stop and complain, hope to draw the call, or (b) probably get beat any way. If he consistently gave up on plays it might be a problem for me, but I don't think he does. If he had stopped and drawn the call, which probably wasn't an unreasonable expectation, we'd all be praising his "veteran presence."

I agree. Mario is fast for a 295 lb guy but c'mon, once VY has a 5 yard lead and is up to speed already Mario had zero chance of running him down. OTOH it has seemed this year there have been in increased number of very late flags after player complaints. Might as well give it a try.

Vinny
12-14-2006, 10:53 AM
I agree. Mario is fast for a 295 lb guy but c'mon, once VY has a 5 yard lead and is up to speed already Mario had zero chance of running him down. OTOH it has seemed this year there have been in increased number of very late flags after player complaints. Might as well give it a try.So you have never seen an offensive player move laterally at times giving the defender a shot at him from behind? I find it hard to believe you like the fact the stopped hustling for a flag like an NBA player and didn't take a chance that VY would not run a straight line into the end zone.

real
12-14-2006, 10:54 AM
I agree. Mario is fast for a 295 lb guy but c'mon, once VY has a 5 yard lead and is up to speed already Mario had zero chance of running him down. OTOH it has seemed this year there have been in increased number of very late flags after player complaints. Might as well give it a try.

I disagree. As a football player you should never stop until the echo of the whistle...What if VY had been hit and fumbled ? What if someone had gotten in his way and atleast made him slow down a bit? Guys are held on every play, and I agree with Vinny....The most dissapointing part is Mario stopping....anything could have happened....

infantrycak
12-14-2006, 10:56 AM
So you have never seen an offensive player move laterally at times giving the defender a shot at him from behind? I find it hard to believe you like the fact the stopped hustling for a flag like an NBA player and didn't take a chance that VY would not run a straight line into the end zone.

All I am saying is this isn't one I will criticize him for. Sure the better play would have been hoping for Babin or the S to make him zig when he should zag but the ref was right there and I have seen a bunch of those appeals around the league be successful this year--TD zapped.

real
12-14-2006, 10:58 AM
All I am saying is this isn't one I will criticize him for. Sure the better play would have been hoping for Babin or the S to make him zig when he should zag but the ref was right there and I have seen a bunch of those appeals around the league be successful this year--TD zapped.

So do you think he should stop everytime he gets held ?

infantrycak
12-14-2006, 11:01 AM
So do you think he should stop everytime he gets held ?

Don't be silly. I explained the specific circumstances for this play.

real
12-14-2006, 11:06 AM
Don't be silly. I explained the specific circumstances for this play.

Oh...So you think he should just stop sometimes....:ok:

ib4texans
12-14-2006, 11:09 AM
So do you think he should stop everytime he gets held ?



So by this logic, we should gripe at our WR for stopping once the RB breaks the LOS. This occurs on a much greater basis than Mario wanting a flag on an obviouse hold.

I'm sure if his foot was at a 100% he might have tried the pursuit, either that or he didn't want to give Second Honeymoon material for another new avatar.

infantrycak
12-14-2006, 11:09 AM
Oh...So you think he should just stop sometimes....:ok:

You made your opinion clear in the post that started with "I disagree." This kind of petty exchange really isn't adding anything.

thunderkyss
12-14-2006, 11:23 AM
I have been watching the NFL 2 decades. The video is getting better, but the officials seem to stay the same. There are still calls missed and phantom calls. I just wish that during crucial moments of the game a penalty called could be reviewed. It might bring a little justice to the game. I still remember the league apologizing to the Giants for a blown call. That kind of thing could be prevented with replay. Yes Mario was held, and he will be held again without a call. He needs to get past that moment and focus on the next move instead of waving for a flag.

It's about consistency more than right/wrong.... hold/no hold..... Winston, Hogdon, & Salaam were getting away with murder. The refs just weren't calling a lot of holding penalties that day.

If they were calling us for holding on some questionable plays, I'd agree with this thread. But the way I saw it, they were letting much worse than this hold on Mario go.

Silver Oak
12-14-2006, 11:32 AM
I posted on texantalk.com about the same no call and got no response. Of course nothing can be changed now and perhaps the refs were calling a loose game, but the hold was so obvious in live action over my freaking DirecTV signal, I yelled it out right away in my living room.

I guess it is so frustrating as every time they show it on ESPN, not one jock reporter has made mention of it.

Oh well, the calls (and no calls) even out in the long run. :)

jerek
12-14-2006, 11:43 AM
So you have never seen an offensive player move laterally at times giving the defender a shot at him from behind? I find it hard to believe you like the fact the stopped hustling for a flag like an NBA player and didn't take a chance that VY would not run a straight line into the end zone.

Of course Mario could have continued to chase and of course VY might have had to move laterally and Mario would have had the chance to take him down. Which wouldn't have mattered, because at the point at which VY broke away into open field, Tennessee already had a gimme field goal. A tackle sets up a FG which we had almost zero chance of blocking or Bironas missing any way.

I side with Mario's decision on this play -- again, if he were consistently giving up on plays, or consistently counting on the refs to bail him out, it would be a different story, but I think he hustles generally and I think this was as good a decision as you could expect him to make at the time he made it. IMO this wasn't a lack-of-hustle play any more than it was the guy doing what he thought gave us the best chance to win.

As cak points out this kind of play has gone the way of the defender many times this year and it wasn't unreasonable of Mario to think that it was his best option in that event. Considering how people berated him earlier in the year for "not thinking" or attempting to read or recognize the play, I don't see how you'd be encouraging him to play with his head in criticizing this play in particular.

dtran04
12-14-2006, 12:01 PM
Our players need to be smarter in that they should know that the refs won't call ANYTHING in that situation. It's similar to the end of a basketball game where a player can get mugged in the lane and not get a call. If the situation were reversed, our players should be doing the same thing.

TransplantTexan1
12-14-2006, 02:21 PM
I think we're all reading waay too much into intent here. I think Mario's reaction was merely an impromptu reaction to what he perceived to be a blatant transgression by the LT. He'd been turned around on the play via a grab, and when he saw that VY had left the pocket and was running down field, he politicked for a flag.

Should he kept after the play? Sure. You never stop playing until you hear the whistle. But was he loafing? No. He was distracted by the infraction that wasn't called. It happens.

The bigger disappointment was that DeMeco left the running lane open on his blitz and Greenwood didn't make the tackle in the hole either. When dealing with a QB who can run your doors off, you can't give him a running lane, even on a blitz. You have to maintain your discipline and plug the gap, even if it merely means standing pat with the RB blocking out of the backfield and getting into the passing lane. That's probably just a rookie mistake, and DR would be the first to say so.

Greenwood never really got himself under control to make the tackle, partly because his reaction was slower than what you'd like, and also because he wasn't tackling your standard QB either; it took more than what Morlon could give at that point.

austintexanite
12-14-2006, 02:39 PM
That call should have been made by the referee (:shades: )on the holding since it looks so blatant.

But we are crying over spilled milk here and can't change it now.

Yah, my friends were givin me flak till I showed it to them and they got silent, but likeyou said...can't change the past. However, hopefully the NFL saw that and dock the refs some points.

real
12-14-2006, 03:29 PM
It's about consistency more than right/wrong.... hold/no hold..... Winston, Hogdon, & Salaam were getting away with murder. The refs just weren't calling a lot of holding penalties that day.

If they were calling us for holding on some questionable plays, I'd agree with this thread. But the way I saw it, they were letting much worse than this hold on Mario go.

I agree. I think it was a holding call...But guys hold on every play.....Most of the time, as long as you keep your hands inside you can get away with it....But anyways...it's water under the bridge now....

OrangeCountyTexansFan
12-14-2006, 03:49 PM
I knew it was holding without seeing the replay. But the next day on ESPN I watched and I could tell for sure. Ref saw it all. Not worth his salt.

canadiantexan
12-14-2006, 06:44 PM
Not to dump on Demeco because the guys an animal, but Is'nt he the one who went for(left his feet) VY's pump fake allowing Vince to take off up the middle. I think that's what led to the TD not "holding". Again no disrespect to Ryans rookies make mistakes.

ib4texans
12-14-2006, 06:50 PM
Not to dump on Demeco because the guys an animal, but Is'nt he the one who went for(left his feet) VY's pump fake allowing Vince to take off up the middle. I think that's what led to the TD not "holding". Again no disrespect to Ryans rookies make mistakes.

Yeah, he seemed like he was the closest until he left his feet. Then it was off to the races.

RTP2110
12-14-2006, 07:04 PM
Also, Babin was not blocked in any of those photos. He took a terrible route to VY.