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View Full Version : Texan Strength & Conditioning Program... Questions & Doubts


texaslifter
12-13-2006, 10:00 AM
I'm not sure I like our head strength and conditioning coach. Every time I go to read his articles and watch video in the fitness corner all I see is players doing hammer strength machines. Everyone who knows anything about how to train a football player knows they need real weights!

Machine weights are a joke, and yet thats what our players are using to get ready to play the most physically demanding sport in the world? This can't be right!

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 10:14 AM
This is a real problem! Care people!

Look at the pictures of our Strength and Conditioning coach. He looks to be about 55-60 years old and about 190 pounds. How can a guy who does not possess strength himself teach it?

Look at the pictures? I don't see a single squat rack or olympic lifting platform. This is completely unacceptable.

And look! I see a smith machine! These things should be made illegal for the muscle imbalance they leave on the trainee!

gtexan02
12-13-2006, 10:24 AM
Pictures don't always tell the whole story. Every athlete who comes to visit says we have great facilities, and so I'm sure they know enough about training to know whats good and what isn't. Machines look hi-tech, so they are featured in pictures.

And you don't have to be a huge 300 pound lineman to teach strength conditioning. Its a science, and you don't actually have to be strong to teach it.

I'm more concerned with our health staff, who seems to let everyone get injured week in and week out.

real
12-13-2006, 10:26 AM
I'm more concerned with our health staff, who seems to let everyone get injured week in and week out.

That would be the strength and conditioning...

gtexan02
12-13-2006, 10:27 AM
Strength and Condiotioning and the medical staff are separate entities, aren't they?

Basically, Im not worried about the strength training.


Our conditioning may need some work, though. I heard Gaffney was totally out of shape for Eagles TC, while he did great in ours. Bad sign

real
12-13-2006, 10:28 AM
Strength and Condiotioning and the medical staff are separate entities, aren't they?


Strength and conditioning=prevention

Trainers/Medical staff=treatment

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 10:30 AM
Pictures don't always tell the whole story. Every athlete who comes to visit says we have great facilities, and so I'm sure they know enough about training to know whats good and what isn't. Machines look hi-tech, so they are featured in pictures.

And you don't have to be a huge 300 pound lineman to teach strength conditioning. Its a science, and you don't actually have to be strong to teach it.

I'm more concerned with our health staff, who seems to let everyone get injured week in and week out.

Sorry, but thats just not true. Geeks can't teach strength. It just doesn't work.

Strength is relative. Most collegiate strength and conditioning programs are a joke, and football is renowned for being full of grandfathered in S&C coaches and athletes who have terrible gauges for maximal strength.

Machines do look high tech, but I don't see a SINGLE squat rack or olympic platform. Thats UNACCEPTABLE. Not for the calibre athlete we are talking about in the NFL.

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 10:32 AM
Strength and Condiotioning and the medical staff are separate entities, aren't they?

Basically, Im not worried about the strength training.


Our conditioning may need some work, though. I heard Gaffney was totally out of shape for Eagles TC, while he did great in ours. Bad sign

Look, its obvious you don't know what you're talking about on this subject. Thats ok, I don't blame you. Neither do the Texans.

Injury prevention comes from a solid strength and conditioning program. Its a fundamental reason why S&C programs even exist at the pro level.

This is a PROBLEM! All this time, it could have been something so easy, and I never even took the time to notice.

Runner
12-13-2006, 10:32 AM
Our conditioning may need some work, though. I heard Gaffney was totally out of shape for Eagles TC, while he did great in ours. Bad sign

I've observed before that our Houston based training camp may rate those athletes who can stand the heat and humidity higher than those that are the best football players in normal game temperatures.

I don't know if it's true; I thought it was an interesting discussion point if anyone is interested.

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 10:35 AM
I've observed before that our Houston based training camp may rate those athletes who can stand the heat and humidity higher than those that are the best football players in normal game temperatures.

I don't know if it's true; I thought it was an interesting discussion point if anyone is interested.
I believe this to be very true. I don't know how many of you have taken part of elite level workouts in the Houston summer heat, but they are grueling to say the least. I honestly don't see why we don't hold the training camp in their bubble.

Runner
12-13-2006, 10:40 AM
I believe this to be very true. I don't know how many of you have taken part of elite level workouts in the Houston summer heat, but they are grueling to say the least. I honestly don't see why we don't hold the training camp in their bubble.

The bubble only has one field so it is restrictive.

I don't think they should hold it in Houston, but they've sunk the money into the facility and the fans get involved here. I doubt it will change.

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 10:42 AM
The bubble only has one field so it is restrictive.

I don't think they should hold it in Houston, but they've sunk the money into teh facility and the fans get invovled here. I doubt it will change.

Well they should shuttle players back and forth then. Honestly, I care much more about improving as a football player than I do improving the ability to withstand heat.

But this is all a side note to the fact that our players are reaching their potential !

real
12-13-2006, 10:44 AM
The bubble only has one field so it is restrictive.


I'm not sure how their camps are run, but in that case they should alternate between defense and offense...While one group is in the Bubble the other group should be in the weight room...

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 10:47 AM
I'd like to hear information like this (http://www.elitefts.com/audio-video/sal/sal.html) coming from Dan Riley. About the only thing I noticed Riley does know is the term sub-maximal effort... Way to read a book, GEEK!

Texans_Chick
12-13-2006, 10:47 AM
This is a real problem! Care people!

Look at the pictures of our Strength and Conditioning coach. He looks to be about 55-60 years old and about 190 pounds. How can a guy who does not possess strength himself teach it?

Look at the pictures? I don't see a single squat rack or olympic lifting platform. This is completely unacceptable.

And look! I see a smith machine! These things should be made illegal for the muscle imbalance they leave on the trainee!

What pictures are you talking about of the weight room.

IIRC, the front part of the room is more free weight oriented, and the back part is more machine oriented. I was just there.

The S&C coach believes that for lifting heavy, it is a mistake to do too much that compresses the spine or has potential for injuring the knees. He sees his job as increasing strength but not risking lifting injuries that might keep the guys off of the football field.

Of course, I am just paraphrasing what I remember him saying. If you have more questions about this, I believe there is an email link or you can call during his radio show.

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 10:53 AM
What pictures are you talking about of the weight room.

IIRC, the front part of the room is more free weight oriented, and the back part is more machine oriented. I was just there.

The S&C coach believes that for lifting heavy, it is a mistake to do too much that compresses the spine or has potential for injuring the knees. He sees his job as increasing strength but not risking lifting injuries that might keep the guys off of the football field.

Of course, I am just paraphrasing what I remember him saying. If you have more questions about this, I believe there is an email link or you can call during his radio show.

Thank you! I browse the fitness section of their website and all I see is pictures of Hammer Strength machines. I'd love to see the free weight section. If McNair spent as much money on the free weight section as he did the machine section then I might have to go change my pants.

I see no point in calling into the radio show though. I'd have to be at the training sessions for a season before I could ask the right questions/make suggestions (I'm no pro here - I just know enough that I find fault with what I see on the website).

Large number of racks? More weight than God himself can lift? Tons of the wooden platforms? A wall full of chains hanging? These are the kinds of things I want to see.

As for the spine compression and staying away from heavy lifting that risks knee injury... better stop the smith machine work and the leg extensions then! Time to incorporate explosive box squats!

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 11:02 AM
Just submit your application already.

I'm nowhere near qualified. But I know a couple people who are.

Why don't you say the same to everyone who second guesses Kubiak?

Vinny
12-13-2006, 11:09 AM
I'm an ex power lifter and I used to bench right at 400 pounds and was very into lifting as a lifestyle...but I didn't train like a football player, I trained like a powerlifter. Dan Riley isn't just some "geek"....he was the Redskins head trainer for 20 years before he came here. I don't think he could have survived in the NFL by being some book geek using theory only to get his men in shape. There is more and more isolation work done in progressive resistance training now days and Riley understands overload and explosion exercises that are used to develop power, it's just that he also understands isolation and training regimens that are specific to different body types and positional requirements.

You guys ought to catch their strength and nutrition show early Saturday mornings on 610am. http://www.houstontexans.com/community/news_detail.php?PRKey=2468&section=Community/Foundation

http://www.houstontexans.com/fitness/fitness_corner.php

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 11:11 AM
I'm an ex power lifter and I used to bench right at 400 pounds...but I didn't train like a football player, I trained like a powerlifter. Dan Riley isn't just some "geek"....he was the Redskins head trainer for 20 years before he came here. I don't think he could have survived in the NFL by being some book geek using theory only to get his men in shape. There is more and more isolation work done in progressive resistance training now days and Riley understands overload and explosion exercises that are used to develop power, it's just that he also understands isolation and training regimens that are specific to different body types and positional requirements.

You guys ought to catch their strength and nutrition show early Saturday mornings on 610am. http://www.houstontexans.com/community/news_detail.php?PRKey=2468&section=Community/Foundation

http://www.houstontexans.com/fitness/fitness_corner.php

You were into PL Vinny? Thats my bag too :shades:

I don't know much about the guy... I'm just going off what I'm reading him write and the weight room pictures I see. I'd love to find out that I'm wrong, and that he is verily taking care of business.

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 11:15 AM
Fair enough.

All I meant to bring up by this post is that given the information on the official website, I wasn't sure the S&C program was on par. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe I'm not.

Me applying for the job is ridiculous though

Vinny
12-13-2006, 11:15 AM
You were into PL Vinny? Thats my bag too :shades:

I don't know much about the guy... I'm just going off what I'm reading him write and the weight room pictures I see. I'd love to find out that I'm wrong, and that he is verily taking care of business.Yeah, I wanted to play some football on a higher level but I had a bad hip so I just stuck to taking my aggressions out in the weight room with a squat rack and a smith machine for the most part. I think Riley may be too wrapped up in iso's also...I'm a free weight old school type lifter also, but he has a huge resume and he knows what he is talking about when I listen to him on his morning show. You and I both would probably focus more on free weights but then again, neither of us have had a job in the NFL for a quarter of a century like he has. He must be doing something right. :shades:

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 11:19 AM
Yeah, I wanted to play some football on a higher level but I had a bad hip so I just stuck to taking my aggressions out in the weight room with a squat rack and a smith machine for the most part. I think Riley may be too wrapped up in iso's also...I'm a free weight old school type lifter also, but he has a huge resume and he knows what he is talking about when I listen to him on his morning show. You and I both would probably focus more on free weights but then again, neither of us have had a job in the NFL for a quarter of a century like he has. He must be doing something right. :shades:

Old school compound power movements! Theres not a movement that should be done for a football player existing outside the rack or off the platform! Iso's are a complete waste of time! When is a football player ever going to use a single muscle to tackle someone or break a tackle or throw a pass or catch a pass or make a block. AMEN!

I just wonder if he actually knows what hes doing, or if he got grandfathered in like Charlie Casserly.

Sounds like I ought to give his radio show a chance when I'm in Houston. If you hear a caller asking about powerlifting based principles like accomidating resistance and dynamic work, you can guess its me :shades:

Vinny
12-13-2006, 11:23 AM
Most of my life I thought isos were for bodybuilders only (for the most part). Iso's make your body look prettier, but raw power movements make you stronger but don't make you look like a bodybuilder...but there is some merit in isolating muscle groups...but once you do that you have to micro-manage all your tie ins and stuff you can't get to if you just had a robust free weight program that forces coordination and smaller muscle group support.

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 11:27 AM
Most of my life I thought isos were for bodybuilders only (for the most part). Iso's make your body look prettier, but raw power movements make you stronger but don't make you look like a bodybuilder...but there is some merit in isolating muscle groups...but once you do that you have to micro-manage all your tie ins and stuff you can't get to if you just had a robust free weight program that forces coordination and smaller muscle group support.

Diet makes your body prettier. I suppose curls can be considered a prettyboy making movement. But I've yet to have any problems with just deadlifts, pullups, rows and the like.
Power movements have given me a yoke that I'm proud of! Power movements do make you stronger. Olympic movements make you more explosive!

I don't believe in iso's as tie ins, I believe in quality compound assistance work that can be monitored along with max effort work and rep work

Cincinnatikid
12-13-2006, 11:39 AM
I am pretty sure this guy knows what he is doing. In terms of strength, they do a lot of exercises called negatives where for example the players start with bench press with the bar extended from the chest and they slowly lower the weight. The trick is there is a lot more weight on the bar than they can lift back up. This allows for the players to work muscles with much more weight than they can normally lift and other players help lift the bar back up. So that as an example is something that shows this team uses power lifting techniques.
This all came from an article about two years ago from him.

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 11:41 AM
I am pretty sure this guy knows what he is doing. In terms of strength, they do a lot of exercises called negatives where for example the players start with bench press with the bar extended from the chest and they slowly lower the weight. The trick is there is a lot more weight on the bar than they can lift back up. This allows for the players to work muscles with much more weight than they can normally lift and other players help lift the bar back up. So that as an example is something that shows this team uses power lifting techniques.
This all came from an article about two years ago from him.

Negatives are one way to break through a plateau. Any movement where you can use a supramaximal load is. Good post though :thumbsup:

Vinny
12-13-2006, 11:44 AM
It's a pretty common principle but many power athlete noobs put too much of their effort into the positive (concentric) part of the rep, while not even being aware of eccentric or negative reps to failure....but that's a discussion for our lifter forum.

painekiller
12-13-2006, 02:17 PM
I've been told that Dan Riley does not believe in the explosions type exercises and that might be a big part of our OL problems, they always seem to be getting really pushed backwards more so than most OLs in the league.

Vinny any idea on that?

HOU-TEX
12-13-2006, 02:54 PM
I used to hit the free weights alot as well. Previous football surgeries have since developed arthritis in the joints. So now I tend to see myself on the machine side of the gym around 75% of the time now. IIRC, Riley emphasizes neck, shoulder and back muscles more than anything. The machines are good for attacking particular muscle groups such as these. Now that I've aged, I've realized the machines have more than justified thier position in the gym.:twocents:

real
12-17-2006, 03:52 PM
I'm not sure how their camps are run, but in that case they should alternate between defense and offense...While one group is in the Bubble the other group should be in the weight room...

Thanks to whoever negative repped me for this^^ post.....

I just wanted you to know, you took away a whopping 2 points.....