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Mr. White
12-12-2006, 12:09 PM
Kubiak's press conference (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3193&section=N%20Latest%20News)

(on reinvestigating shotgun with QB David Carr) “I really don’t want to address that. There’s a reason why we haven’t been doing much shotgun and I’ve got to keep that in-house until we fix it. But when your quarterback is getting pressured you’d love to move him back there, you’d love to give him more time from that standpoint the minute you go back there you are throwing the ball. We’ve got some things we’ve got to work out and we have been working on them and if we can get them fixed you may see us do it some more. If we don’t get it fixed then we’re not going to do it. That’s as far as I’ll go with that.”

What do you guys make of this?

thunderkyss
12-12-2006, 12:12 PM
Kubiak's press conference (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3193&section=N%20Latest%20News)



What do you guys make of this?

I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.

Texans86
12-12-2006, 12:16 PM
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.

Either that, or there's a reason D.Carr is a quarterback and not a wide reciever; he simply can't catch the ball. It's not outside the realm of possibility.

On a more serious note, did Flannagan ever use the shotgun in GB, or Hogden? I'm not quite sure how it could happen, but maybe for some reason our centers have difficulty snapping the ball back and then getting in position to block.

moses77550
12-12-2006, 12:40 PM
I think that the center cannot hike the ball consistantly to carr or carr just cant handle the snap....Who knows

Mr. White
12-12-2006, 12:41 PM
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.

I think you're onto something here.

Another quote from the press conference:

(on whether he would like to stretch the field more) “Yeah, you know you definitely want to come out in the game and stretch the field more in what you’re doing. As I told y’all after the game, I know for a fact that it is not a strength of ours right now. If we go out there and take a seven-step drop 20-25 times in the game and think we’re going to (WR) Andre (Johnson) 30 yards down the field and (WR) Eric (Moulds) 30 yards down the field, and that’s the way we’re going to play the game. I don’t think that’s fair to our team right now. It’s not a strength of our team right now. If we can keep our third downs manageable and keep (QB) David (Carr) in three and five-step drops, I think we have a chance to be effective. And we were yesterday whenever we were able to do that, but the minute we got a penalty and we were second-and-20 or third-and-12, we weren’t very good. So that is something that we as coaches address and try to keep them out of that situation. As we get better as a football team hopefully we’re able to handle those situations better, but right now that is not something good for us. If we have penalties in a game, then we’re usually in trouble because now we’re having some long distance yardage. It is something that we have to get better at, and the only way you’re going to get better is to just keep going back. For us right now it’s just best for us to stay out of those situations.”

Carr also can't take a 7-step drop. This tells me that the OL is as much of a problem as it ever has been.

My :twocents:.... I think that we've gotta take Joe Thomas if he's there to flatten blitzers. If not, Marshawn Lynch might be there and he'd be the perfect guy on the dumpoffs that we seem so fond of running.

eriadoc
12-12-2006, 12:44 PM
How many possibilities can there be?

The center is having problems with the snap? - Flanagan snapped shotgun to Favre, so before we had Hodgdon in there, this would seem to be invalidated.

The tackles can't keep the ends from going to that spot - If you look at the tackles right now, they don't get much push outward as it is, so this is a very real possibility.

Carr can't handle the snap - possible as well, I suppose. Have we ever seen him in shotgun? Did he ever do it in college? I find it a little hard to believe a QB could make it to the pros without being able to handle a shotgun snap, but I suppose it's possible.

Am I missing anything else?

I vote we promote Bryan Pittman to starting center ;)

(on whether he would like to stretch the field more) “Yeah, you know you definitely want to come out in the game and stretch the field more in what you’re doing. As I told y’all after the game, I know for a fact that it is not a strength of ours right now. If we go out there and take a seven-step drop 20-25 times in the game and think we’re going to (WR) Andre (Johnson) 30 yards down the field and (WR) Eric (Moulds) 30 yards down the field, and that’s the way we’re going to play the game. I don’t think that’s fair to our team right now. It’s not a strength of our team right now. If we can keep our third downs manageable and keep (QB) David (Carr) in three and five-step drops, I think we have a chance to be effective. And we were yesterday whenever we were able to do that, but the minute we got a penalty and we were second-and-20 or third-and-12, we weren’t very good. So that is something that we as coaches address and try to keep them out of that situation. As we get better as a football team hopefully we’re able to handle those situations better, but right now that is not something good for us. If we have penalties in a game, then we’re usually in trouble because now we’re having some long distance yardage. It is something that we have to get better at, and the only way you’re going to get better is to just keep going back. For us right now it’s just best for us to stay out of those situations.”

Not having even an average offensive line hurts this team in so many ways. I pray we get that fixed.

Honoring Earl 34
12-12-2006, 12:50 PM
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.

TK , I think your baiting but I'll play ... thats when the QB steps up into the pocket .

Reddevil63
12-12-2006, 12:52 PM
Im thinking its more along the lines of Carr cant read defenses when he is concentrating on catching the snap.

Honoring Earl 34
12-12-2006, 01:03 PM
Well ... they've never used the shotgun that I can remember .

dtran04
12-12-2006, 01:06 PM
Carr has done it in past years plenty of times. Kubiak also said that going to 7 step drops was not possible right now and that they would stick to 5. To me, that clearly means O-Line. I'm betting that the O-Line is getting killed in practice, making Kubiak have zero faith in them.

Runner
12-12-2006, 01:09 PM
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.

I'd say that this is a big part of the reason.

As an aside, I've also been told by somebody who has been around the block a few times that when Carr takes a 7 step drop he ends up a little deeper than the various back-ups we've had. This puts additional pressure on the tackles in those situations.

HOU-TEX
12-12-2006, 01:15 PM
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.

Im thinking its more along the lines of Carr cant read defenses when he is concentrating on catching the snap.

DCs inability to step up in the pocket doesn't help much either.

These are both pretty good opinions. :)

eriadoc
12-12-2006, 01:21 PM
I was just looking up the game log from the StL game last year for another thread and noticed that Carr passed from the shotgun five times in the first half (the half in which he called the plays). FWIW.

srstex
12-12-2006, 01:29 PM
QB Attempts Sacked % to attempts
P. Manning 457 13 2.8%
S. McNair 398 14 3.5
T. Brady 430 23 5.3
Titan 376 20 5.3
V Young 286 16 5.6
K Collins 90 4 4.4
P Rivers 383 23 6.0
Jacksonville 346 22 6.4
Pennington 387 25 6.5
Miami 490 34 6.9
C Palmer 414 30 7.2
Kansa City 353 29 8.2
Big Ben 393 37 9.4
D. Carr 376 36 9.6
J P Lossman 342 38 11.1
Frye 358 43 12
Oakland 382 62 16.2

The Titan O line is GOOD, The Texan O line is not. This is just the AFC and this helps show what is wrong with our team.

the wonger need food
12-12-2006, 01:37 PM
QB Attempts Sacked % to attempts
P. Manning 457 13 2.8%
S. McNair 398 14 3.5
T. Brady 430 23 5.3
Titan 376 20 5.3
V Young 286 16 5.6
K Collins 90 4 4.4
P Rivers 383 23 6.0
Jacksonville 346 22 6.4
Pennington 387 25 6.5
Miami 490 34 6.9
C Palmer 414 30 7.2
Kansa City 353 29 8.2
Big Ben 393 37 9.4
D. Carr 376 36 9.6
J P Lossman 342 38 11.1
Frye 358 43 12
Oakland 382 62 16.2

The Titan O line is GOOD, The Texan O line is not. This is just the AFC and this helps show what is wrong with our team.

It doesn't come close to telling the whole story. Carr contributes to about 50% of his sacks because he has zero pocket presence, holds onto the ball too long and can't read defenses.

kenneth24
12-12-2006, 02:25 PM
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.

That would be my best guess as well...as for not being able to handle the snap in the shotgun, I seriously doubt that would be the problem...as long as the DE don't beat the ball back to him.

FLYmeatwad
12-12-2006, 04:14 PM
THat was actually a major problem I've had. I've seen little to no shotgun all year. It's really hurting that deep ball that we desperately need to implement in to the attack plan.

ib4texans
12-12-2006, 04:23 PM
It doesn't come close to telling the whole story. Carr contributes to about 50% of his sacks because he has zero pocket presence, holds onto the ball too long and can't read defenses.


I'm pretty sure I saw him step up in the pocket right away against the Titans this Sunday and make about a 14 yard rush. It didn't look accidental, it looked like he made that decision quick.

thunderkyss
12-12-2006, 06:03 PM
That is a very logical answer right there. Flanagan has experience with the shotgun snap. He did play for a Superbowl winning team and he was behind Brett Favre.

David was in the shotgun in one of our games this year. One, maybe two snaps. I don't remember how it went..... but we didn't go back to it much after that.

the wonger need food
12-13-2006, 09:33 AM
I think the problem is that Carr has to take his eyes off of the defense to catch the ball in the shotgun. When he's taking the snap from under center he can look at the field the whole time. He's just not smart and/or confident enough to be in the shotgun. Sometimes I wonder if he can chew gum and walk at the same time...

eric138
12-13-2006, 09:39 AM
After Chester talking it is definitely the O-lines problems. Once they are addressed, hopefully this off-season we will see a better Carr next year because he will have more time in a solid pocket and we will see some shotgun setups.

real
12-13-2006, 09:42 AM
After Chester talking it is definitely the O-lines problems. Once they are addressed, hopefully this off-season we will see a better Carr next year because he will have more time in a solid pocket and we will see some shotgun setups.

The problem is that "people" want to but blame on one or the other....The O-line hasn't played extremely well, but David hasn't done anything to help the situation....

Yankee_In_TX
12-13-2006, 10:20 AM
My Lord, I think my brain is fried from studying. I saw this thread title, and after all the angry posts lately I instantly pictured an angry fan chasing Carr through the woods carrying a shotgun. LMAO. Sorry, that is wholely inappropriate, but it made me laugh.

Mr. White
12-13-2006, 10:26 AM
My Lord, I think my brain is fried from studying. I saw this thread title, and after all the angry posts lately I instantly pictured an angry fan chasing Carr through the woods carrying a shotgun. LMAO. Sorry, that is wholely inappropriate, but it made me laugh.

lol...Fans would pay good money for the chance.

BTW, they just talked about it on 610. A lot of the same stuff that we've talked about here.

CarrIsFine
12-13-2006, 10:31 AM
I think the problem is that Carr has to take his eyes off of the defense to catch the ball in the shotgun. When he's taking the snap from under center he can look at the field the whole time. He's just not smart and/or confident enough to be in the shotgun. Sometimes I wonder if he can chew gum and walk at the same time...

Kubiak straight out says the pass protection is weak and they have to do short drops/quick release (sound familiar). The O-line is makeshift due to injuries. Then he says they can't run shotgun. Then he says Carr has very little freedom to change plays.

I know it's tough when you wear "Carr Sucks at Everything" glasses, but lets use a little of our reasoning skills and not just simplify everything: The O-line is is having issues, Kubiak knows this, he does not have confidence in them, so he does not take chances with 7 step drops or shotgun. He also calls a conservative game and does not give Carr much freedom in changing the play.

Yet it is Carr's fault that they are not running the shotgun or throwing down the field? Just keep blaming Carr, it's a lot easier. And yes, the O-line has been horrible since inception.

SESupergenius
12-13-2006, 11:38 AM
The problem is that "people" want to but blame on one or the other....The O-line hasn't played extremely well, but David hasn't done anything to help the situation....

Good lord, give it a rest. The problem is that a few misguided people on this keep pounding the same spew over and over about thier dislike for Carr. Ok we get it. It doesn't need to be in every freaking post. There are tons of other issues with this team besides the QB and this was known well before the season even started. No mention that Dunta keeps getting burned by less than stellar WR's or no mention that our pass rush gambles leaves other holes in our defense or no mention that our WR's can't get extra yards with the talent they have.

real
12-13-2006, 11:45 AM
Good lord, give it a rest. The problem is that a few misguided people on this keep pounding the same spew over and over about thier dislike for Carr. Ok we get it. It doesn't need to be in every freaking post. There are tons of other issues with this team besides the QB and this was known well before the season even started. No mention that Dunta keeps getting burned by less than stellar WR's or no mention that our pass rush gambles leaves other holes in our defense or no mention that our WR's can't get extra yards with the talent they have.

Well why don't you either:

A) Start a thread about all the "other problems", and watch them fall to the second page

B) put me, and everyone else who's comments you don't want to read on ignore

C) Stop visiting the boards

You're a grown man not to mention a supergenius....Im atleast hoping you are capable of making a decision that would enable you to not be bothered by the same ol' stuff being spewed on the boards.:)

thunderkyss
12-13-2006, 11:58 AM
The O-line is is having issues, Kubiak knows this, he does not have confidence in them, so he does not take chances with 7 step drops or shotgun.

Yet it is Carr's fault that they are not running the shotgun or throwing down the field? Just keep blaming Carr, it's a lot easier. And yes, the O-line has been horrible since inception.

most teams use the shotgun in definite passing situations. They are more likely to go to it if they feel they are overmatched by the defensive line, or have trouble picking up the blitz.

If a team is reluctant to go into the Shotgun, it's usually not an offensive line problem.

throwing downfield.... if you've got guys who can run the 40 in 4.4 seconds and under, it will take them less than 2.5 seconds to get 10 yards down the field... On a 5 step drop, 10 & 15 yard passes shouldn't be out of the playbook. If you can consistently hit your WR/TE once out of every three tries(30%), there shouldn't be any problem moving the ball down the field, and keeping our offense on the field. this really shouldn't be a problem for a QB completing 70% of his passes... @ 70% he should be hitting at least twice out of every three attempts(60%).

Honoring Earl 34
12-13-2006, 12:12 PM
So TK ... would it be better to hit 60% and average 8.5 yds per attempt ?

therealdon
12-15-2006, 03:49 AM
Carr was in shotgun once this year and it was a QB draw.

DeclanJr
12-15-2006, 06:29 AM
Is it possible that DC just can't make the throws or the reads? I know the line doesn't hold up well, but isn't that part of what the shotgun is supposed to solve?

MrMeToo
12-15-2006, 07:03 AM
Carr is too stupid to play shotgun.

eriadoc
12-15-2006, 07:37 AM
Carr is too stupid to play shotgun.

Yeeeahhh. Honestly, some of the tripe that gets posted on this board is astounding.

Looking back at game logs from last year, the shotgun was a regular part of the gameplan. It would appear that anywhere from 4-8 times per game, the offense would use the shotgun formation. And yes, Carr ran it just fine.

From http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/sports/16241245.htm .....

OUT OF THE SHOTGUN: Kubiak was evasive early in the week about why he avoids putting Carr in the shotgun formation. On Thursday, he said it depends on how quickly center Drew Hodgdon, a second-year pro who began the season as the backup, masters the longer snaps.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 07:49 AM
All of the possible problems with running the shotgun are fundamental things that ANY NFL team should be able to overcome.

It is really depressing to think that Kubiak can't trust a group of, or one, professional enough to run the shotgun offense.

Mr. White
12-15-2006, 07:54 AM
All of the possible problems with running the shotgun are fundamental things that ANY NFL team should be able to overcome.


You would think so, but I wonder if this also isn't on Dom Capers and Joe Pendry for not getting Hodgdon any work in the shotgun his rookie year....at least to an extent.

I totally agree that any NFL center should already know how to snap in the shotgun.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-15-2006, 08:00 AM
You used to see John Elway run that shotgun religiously in Denver. It has to be killing Kubiak that he can't run it here. I know he would if he could.

the wonger need food
12-15-2006, 08:49 AM
Kubiak straight out says the pass protection is weak and they have to do short drops/quick release (sound familiar). The O-line is makeshift due to injuries. Then he says they can't run shotgun. Then he says Carr has very little freedom to change plays.

I know it's tough when you wear "Carr Sucks at Everything" glasses, but lets use a little of our reasoning skills and not just simplify everything: The O-line is is having issues, Kubiak knows this, he does not have confidence in them, so he does not take chances with 7 step drops or shotgun. He also calls a conservative game and does not give Carr much freedom in changing the play.

Yet it is Carr's fault that they are not running the shotgun or throwing down the field? Just keep blaming Carr, it's a lot easier. And yes, the O-line has been horrible since inception.

So where does Kubiak specifically state that it's a problem with the centers or offensive line?

I know it's tough when you wear "Carr Is the Greatest at Everything" glasses, but go ahead and find that quote for me.

Buckle
12-15-2006, 09:06 AM
Here's your quote about why they don't run the shotgun now...and weird it has NOTHING to do with Carr but the offensive line!!


(on using the shotgun) “We’ll see. We’ll work on it a little bit. It kind of all depends on how we come out of practice. But in all honesty, it’s something that we haven’t done much of because it’s something that we’re trying to get (C) Drew (Hodgdon) used to. (C Mike) Flanagan did it well, and if you don’t have confidence to do it, you just get back up under center and do the same things. Really, it just kind of all depends on how Drew handles it, but it is something that we work on all the time.”

And thats right off the Texans website!! http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3206&section=N%20Latest%20News

Weird we ran the shotgun until Flanagan went down and then we stopped using it BUT its Carr's fault??? Open your eyes and see what the real problems are. Plus if you look at how Carr was performing he was doing very good at the beginning of the year when his oline was giving him some kind of protection, but then Spencer among other injuries along the o-line and were back at square one and our o-line can't block for anything.

HOU-TEX
12-15-2006, 09:56 AM
You used to see John Elway run that shotgun religiously in Denver. It has to be killing Kubiak that he can't run it here. I know he would if he could.

I'm sure there are many things killing Kubiak this year. IMO, if anybody can get the problems taken care of, he can.:)

dantem
12-15-2006, 10:22 AM
I'm sure there are many things killing Kubiak this year. IMO, if anybody can get the problems taken care of, he can.:)

I think what he has done this year is amazing, from where we started, and all the injuries we have had, and personel limitations, He has found a way to work around the problems, and at least not get blown out every game.

edo783
12-15-2006, 10:22 AM
Let's see:

Kubiak - Ran the gun in Denver - check
Carr - ran the gun in college and a fair amount as a Texan - Check

Can't run it now - Kubes says its a problem at center snapping - Carrs at fault says some - Uhhh, check I guess.

ib4texans
12-15-2006, 12:22 PM
So where does Kubiak specifically state that it's a problem with the centers or offensive line?

I know it's tough when you wear "Carr Is the Greatest at Everything" glasses, but go ahead and find that quote for me.



Here Ya Go !!!


(on using the shotgun) “We’ll see. We’ll work on it a little bit. It kind of all depends on how we come out of practice. But in all honesty, it’s something that we haven’t done much of because it’s something that we’re trying to get (C) Drew (Hodgdon) used to. (C Mike) Flanagan did it well, and if you don’t have confidence to do it, you just get back up under center and do the same things. Really, it just kind of all depends on how Drew handles it, but it is something that we work on all the time.”

edo783
12-15-2006, 04:51 PM
Here Ya Go !!!


(on using the shotgun) “We’ll see. We’ll work on it a little bit. It kind of all depends on how we come out of practice. But in all honesty, it’s something that we haven’t done much of because it’s something that we’re trying to get (C) Drew (Hodgdon) used to. (C Mike) Flanagan did it well, and if you don’t have confidence to do it, you just get back up under center and do the same things. Really, it just kind of all depends on how Drew handles it, but it is something that we work on all the time.”

Ouch, that had to hurt going in.

Runner
12-15-2006, 04:55 PM
...Kubes says its a problem at center snapping...

I must have stored most of this season in the inaccessible part of my memory where 2005 is stored. I can't remember seeing Carr take shotgun snaps from Flanagan either. Did he?

TexansSeminole
12-15-2006, 04:56 PM
I must have stored most of this season in the inaccessible part of my memory where 2005 is stored. I can't remember seeing Carr take shotgun snaps from Flanagan either. Did he?

I was thinking the same thing when I read this.

With all this recent news it just seems like our coaches and players are told to protect Carr with their statements. I can't think of any other reason Kubiak would say it is on Drew if we never ran the shotgun with Flanagan either.

ib4texans
12-15-2006, 04:59 PM
I was thinking the same thing when I read this.

With all this recent news it just seems like our coaches and players are told to protect Carr with their statements. I can't think of any other reason Kubiak would say it is on Drew if we never ran the shotgun with Flanagan either.


Maybe he was referring to Flanagan in Green Bay. Ha! that would be funny.Like Moulds was pretty good in Buffalo,welcome to Houston.

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2006, 05:01 PM
I must have stored most of this season in the inaccessible part of my memory where 2005 is stored. I can't remember seeing Carr take shotgun snaps from Flanagan either. Did he?

Nope but if they had to Flannagan can do it .

Wolf
12-15-2006, 05:02 PM
Let's see:

Kubiak - Ran the gun in Denver - check
Carr - ran the gun in college and a fair amount as a Texan - Check

Can't run it now - Kubes says its a problem at center snapping - Carrs at fault says some - Uhhh, check I guess.

very true :lol: