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View Full Version : Anybody going wobbly on the decision to hire Kubiak ?


nunusguy
12-12-2006, 09:13 AM
Obviously Kubiak himself is not going anyplace in the near future, but if Texan fans are completely honest with themselves, you have to admit that Kubiack has already made or contributed to the worst and most damaging decisions in this franchises history. If you don't buy that, then you're deluding yourself.
David Carr is more likely than not out of here in the offseason, but drafting him #1 way back in 2002 wasn't the mistake(s) made with Carr, it was almost surely the way he was developed since arriving here.
The decisions made early this year with the extension of the Carr contract and in the Draft to select Mario with the #1 pick were decisions that Kubiack
was right in the middle of, if not the principal decision maker.
And some of Kubiaks gametime-onfield decisions. I dunno ?
Just for the record I have no loyalty or affiliation with UT, and my preference
in the Draft (and still is and would be for the 2007 Draft), was to trade the pick for multiple players.

Kaiser Toro
12-12-2006, 09:17 AM
I am all for Kubiak and the progress he has made with the team in total. There were hires he made on the staff that appear to be mistakes, but that can be rectified. He also had some personnel issues - injuries and players not earning their keep and that can be rectified.

This is not a UT/A&M thing and if one makes it that then go to your college board of choice as the games are completely different.

powerfuldragon
12-12-2006, 09:17 AM
not yet. too soon to wobble on this one if you ask me.

gtexan02
12-12-2006, 09:19 AM
Am I wobbly on the Kubiak decision? Not really. Here are some choices he's made that I find interesting:

Mario Williams over VY and RB: Obviously this was on him, and I think he made the wrong choice. If I was in his shoes, however, I think I would have made the same choice. Hindsight is 20/20, but when you're an offensive minded coach, you have to give yourself enough weapons on the other side of the ball not to look bad. Enter the top D prospect at the time in the draft.

Going with Carr this year: Again, I think it was the wrong choice looking back, but again, based on the game tape and the ineptness of Dom Capers, I think Kubiak made the best decision he could have.

Here are the things I do fault him for:
Cutting many serviceable depth guys who had reasonable contracts:
Antwoine Smith, Sam Cowart, Seth Wand. All those guys could have helped out tremendously given the injuries we hd this year, yet were shown the door for no apparent reason. A 2-14 team can't afford to cut veteeran depth.

Cutting Robaire Smith because we were "stacked" at DT. That didn't work out so well, did it, with 3 DT on IR. I still think RS was a producer

Playing so conservatively on offense - For an offensive minded coach, his style of football looks very much like Dom Capers

Putting out an offensive product like we've been seeing: For all his coaching savvy, our offense is an embarassment.

kingh99
12-12-2006, 09:21 AM
I am all for Kubiak and the progress he has made with the team in total. There were hires he made on the staff that appear to be mistakes, but that can be rectified. He also had some personnel issues - injuries and players not earning their keep and that can be rectified.

This is not a UT/A&M thing and if one makes it that then go to your college board of choice as the games are completely different.

He's the perfect man for the job now that VY isn't available. He wouldn't be a good coach for VY. Fisher will be. He's a defense guy. He loves being able to have a guy play within himself for 50 minutes but have the capacity to take over when called upon. That run in overtime was set up the entire game by his patience. He disguised that option until it was winning time.

Blu
12-12-2006, 09:22 AM
Anybody going wobbly on the decision to hire Kubiak ?
No..

but after a few crappy years with Doom Capers ..so what if Kubiak wasn't ready from the get go (2002). Couldn't have been any worst.

I bet the Texans would be a contender by now.

fhlh
12-12-2006, 09:22 AM
Playing so conservatively on offense - For an offensive minded coach, his style of football looks very much like Dom Capers
.

Makes me wonder if he is seeing the same problems with a certain QB that Dom did.....

kingh99
12-12-2006, 09:22 AM
Am I wobbly on the Kubiak decision? Not really. Here are some choices he's made that I find interesting:

Mario Williams over VY and RB: Obviously this was on him, and I think he made the wrong choice. If I was in his shoes, however, I think I would have made the same choice. Hindsight is 20/20, but when you're an offensive minded coach, you have to give yourself enough weapons on the other side of the ball not to look bad. Enter the top D prospect at the time in the draft.

Going with Carr this year: Again, I think it was the wrong choice looking back, but again, based on the game tape and the ineptness of Dom Capers, I think Kubiak made the best decision he could have.

Here are the things I do fault him for:
Cutting many serviceable depth guys who had reasonable contracts:
Antwoine Smith, Sam Cowart, Seth Wand. All those guys could have helped out tremendously given the injuries we hd this year, yet were shown the door for no apparent reason. A 2-14 team can't afford to cut veteeran depth.

Cutting Robaire Smith because we were "stacked" at DT. That didn't work out so well, did it, with 3 DT on IR. I still think RS was a producer

Playing so conservatively on offense - For an offensive minded coach, his style of football looks very much like Dom Capers

Putting out an offensive product like we've been seeing: For all his coaching savvy, our offense is an embarassment.


Yeah I've seen Jeff Fisher pounding that pick up your feet Vince and put them down play for a long time before they got it right. The QB is the problem here. He's deadly within 6 inches in a vacuum. He threw 2 balls past the line of scrimmage last week. He's the Jessica Simpson of pro football.

eriadoc
12-12-2006, 09:40 AM
I don't think you can fairly evaluate any coach in less than a few years. Kubiak has had success at every stop - the rest of this team has not. It will take some time for him to get his people in place, but he has already shown he'll make personnel changes to fit his system, regardless of perceived status on the team. I am optimistic about Kubiak.

Big_O
12-12-2006, 09:53 AM
Not wobbly in the least. I'm 1 of those weirdos who actually gives people a reasonable amount of time before judging them. :shrug:

austintexanite
12-12-2006, 09:53 AM
not yet. too soon to wobble on this one if you ask me.

exactly

Texans_Chick
12-12-2006, 09:54 AM
Obviously Kubiak himself is not going anyplace in the near future, but if Texan fans are completely honest with themselves, you have to admit that Kubiack has already made or contributed to the worst and most damaging decisions in this franchises history. If you don't buy that, then you're deluding yourself.
David Carr is more likely than not out of here in the offseason, but drafting him #1 way back in 2002 wasn't the mistake(s) made with Carr, it was almost surely the way he was developed since arriving here.
The decisions made early this year with the extension of the Carr contract and in the Draft to select Mario with the #1 pick were decisions that Kubiack
was right in the middle of, if not the principal decision maker.
And some of Kubiaks gametime-onfield decisions. I dunno ?
Just for the record I have no loyalty or affiliation with UT, and my preference
in the Draft (and still is and would be for the 2007 Draft), was to trade the pick for multiple players.


I think that given the circumstances at the time, most incoming coaches would have re-signed Carr and not picked quarterback. Basically, Kubiak was hired and then the Carr decision had to be made right away.

If you have quarterback, it is hard to justify salary/cap wise another quarterback.

He was squarely in the Mario-Bush decision.

It is too early to evaluate any of this stuff, and to be fair, our schedule this year has been another coach killer one. The Texans are the only team in the league that had 6 of 8 on the road with a stretch of 3 on the road in the middle.

Injury-wise, the team is at the top of the league with players on IR.

Offensive-line wise, the only team with less consistency on the offensive line (same players week to week), is the Cardinals.

It is worth nothing, even though it doesn't make you feel any better, since week 5, all the losses have been close ones, and even that blowout loss that week was a game that the Texans were leading at the half.

There's a bunch of issues with the team, and easily you could draft or acquire FAs at just about every position and find someone you need.

Has Kubiak done everything perfectly? No, I am sure there are a lot of decisions he would take back.

jerek
12-12-2006, 09:55 AM
Don't doubt the decision at all. Kubiak is our guy for the forseeable future and I am happy with that.

Rightnow
12-12-2006, 10:03 AM
No. Look at Parcells in Dallas. How many years did it take for him to get the QB situation squared away? How many times did the team seem to do well and then fold in the playoffs? Parcells is a super bowl winning coach and the Cowboys just got it handed to them by the Saints.

Being a coach in the NFL is probably one of the toughest jobs in the world, but one of the most rewarding too. Kubiak deserves his shot and will be here for at least two or three more years.

All of this VY, RB, and draft stuff will be forgotten and forgiven when we beat the Titans, and have a winning record. Kubiak knows this and is working towards that goal.

TheOgre
12-12-2006, 10:06 AM
Regardless of his passing on Bush and VY, I like the overall draft. As a result of our selections, we added:

1. A MLB that is likely the DROY
2. A DE that will man the left side of the line for the next decade
3. A TE that actually gives the Texans a receiving threat at the position for the first time since Billy Miller left. Additionally, Daniels isn't the liability at blocking that Miller was.
4. A true #2 receiver (the 5th we gave Buffalo for Moulds)
5. Two potential starters on the O-line
6. A 6th round RB that if nothing else, has contributed in his rookie year.

The only real question mark I have is Walter, and we gave up a 7th rounder and a few too many dollars for him. This team had never had a good draft class. I don't think people realize how devoid this team was of talent at the end of last year. Looking at the guys we had at the end of last year, there are only three "keepers" that I would take with me to build a team from scratch: AJ, Dunta Robinson, and Jerome Mathis. As much as it pains me, that is where this team is.

We Kubiak came onto this scene we were a pathetic 2-14 team with really no areas of strength. Every facet of the game needed to be fixed except possibly the rushing attack, but that was when we had DD. Kubiak has built up the receiving core, improved the front seven on defense, and protected Carr from taking the same level of beating he did last year (physically that is). He has a lot of work but he has made strides.

bayshorebevo
12-12-2006, 10:13 AM
I have had doubts ever since he was hired amid all the hero-worshipping and hoopla. He was canonized before he took the job with everybody gushing over his 500 Super Bowl rings, none of which he got as a starting player or head coach and the tag of can't-miss was on him. He is still untested, his offense & play-calling has been poor, too conservative (albeit with lack of good personnel) and he has been playing not to win. I was not against him and I am still not against him as coach because he hasn't been here long enough to make a decision on whether he was the right pick. I do, however, get very irate at his insistence that he could make Carr a star and his #1 draft choice which will haunt us for years to come. Hopefully, things will improve at some time in the future and he will be a great head coach. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

hot pickle
12-12-2006, 10:22 AM
not at all, Kubiak is the best coach for this team, people are so mad about the texans, but this season has been a success, we won twice as many games, and to the people who were expectin playoffs, that is just dumb, not alot of teams go from worst team to the playoffs, so i am very happy with kubiak, he keeps players accountable, he'll be the coach for years and years to come, and acouple super bowls

Double Barrel
12-12-2006, 10:43 AM
Obviously Kubiak himself is not going anyplace in the near future, but if Texan fans are completely honest with themselves, you have to admit that Kubiack has already made or contributed to the worst and most damaging decisions in this franchises history. If you don't buy that, then you're deluding yourself.



I think Casserly was the worst and most damaging decision in this organization's short history.

The Bush/Young debacle is probably the worst PR decision, but on a pure football basis, Casserly set this team back with his boneheaded personel decisions.

I'm down with Kubiak, though. Most first year head coaches struggle, so I fully expected this season to be like this (including the Titans game with the exception of VY winning it in OT in dramatic fashion).

We've definitely had the best draft in our history, and I have no reason to believe that this trend won't continue. And now that Kubiak has a full off-season to evaluate and upgrade, along with his own GM, I think we'll see some good things on the field next season.

michaelm
12-12-2006, 11:09 AM
I'm personally not 'wobbly' on his hire, but there are definitely areas where he needs to improve.
Whether the #1 pick was right or wrong, I still think Mario will be a very good player for a long time in this league, and combined with DeMeco and some added help, we could have a dominant D for years to come.
If we find any help @ QB, and also at a few other offensive positions, that dominant D would go a long way in helping us get over the VY/RB thing.

On the other hand, if I see another I-Formation, play action pass on third and more than 8, I might just lose it...

For God's sake Gary! we are a 4 win team! Tell Carr to forget his freakin' 'reads' for three consecutive plays and just go deep. It might be therapeutic for a couple of million people... that is, if the Texans haven't lost all of their fans at this point.

Grid
12-12-2006, 11:23 AM
I still love the Kubiak decision and have total faith in him.

I think he is going to be a great head coach for us for many years.

TexansLucky13
12-12-2006, 11:29 AM
I think that given the circumstances at the time, most incoming coaches would have re-signed Carr and not picked quarterback. Basically, Kubiak was hired and then the Carr decision had to be made right away.

If you have quarterback, it is hard to justify salary/cap wise another quarterback.

He was squarely in the Mario-Bush decision.

It is too early to evaluate any of this stuff, and to be fair, our schedule this year has been another coach killer one. The Texans are the only team in the league that had 6 of 8 on the road with a stretch of 3 on the road in the middle.

Injury-wise, the team is at the top of the league with players on IR.

Offensive-line wise, the only team with less consistency on the offensive line (same players week to week), is the Cardinals.

It is worth nothing, even though it doesn't make you feel any better, since week 5, all the losses have been close ones, and even that blowout loss that week was a game that the Texans were leading at the half.

There's a bunch of issues with the team, and easily you could draft or acquire FAs at just about every position and find someone you need.

Has Kubiak done everything perfectly? No, I am sure there are a lot of decisions he would take back.

I agree with all of this.

If Kubiak truly was the man who had the most say in this past draft, I am VERY excited. The 2006 Draft did so much for this team and gave us half a dozen guys who could be here for a very long time.

IMO he has done a lot with a team that is dealing with many problems, not the least of which would be the losing culture that the team has developed.

Go Kubiak! :texan:

Vinny
12-12-2006, 12:21 PM
Kubiak isn't even an issue in my mind right now, but his FA signings were ho-hum and this last draft was one of the deepest in years so while they blew the first pick, they made up for it when Ryans slid down the board. That draft was so deep that even if Ryans was gone we had D'Qwell Jackson sitting right there and people are comparing him to Ray Lewis....so, it will be interesting to see how he drafts in a draft with less talent. We need more talent.

hollywood_texan
12-12-2006, 12:45 PM
Kubiak took the job and we all knew it was going to be an uphill battle. A realistic person isn't surprised we are 4-9, but the fashion in which it is happening is a very alarming because it seems very similar to the Capers days. This team really needs to have a lot more heart and drive.

Take out the Demeco Ryans draft pick from all of Kubiak's decisions, and I am really scratching my head. But, one player can make or break a coach, just ask Mack Brown and Jeff Fischer about that and Vince Young. Mario still needs time to develop and is injured, you really can't judge him on his first year at defensive end but he will need to make big strides next year. Too bad Spencer got hurt early in the season so we could get a better evaluation on him. What I am saying is, I am not too sold on this draft class being that strong, time will tell.

To answer the question though, I am starting to go a little wobbly on Kubiak. Football is a game of momentum, and the Texans have never really generated any momentum as a Franchise, which is what I think is really the bigger problem. I don't see how Kubiak has started to change the momentum in any way. He took on a very difficult situation that really didn't allow for many mistakes, but I am sure he understood that when he took the job.

It appears as though Kubiak could be putting himself in a big hole if he can't get things turned around quickly, meaning midway through next season. I am not talking about victories, but solid outings that show the Texans can play with any team in the league.

The way I see it, Kubiak has about 11 or 12 remaining games to get the momentum thing rolling or it will really get ugly. Arguably, Kubiak is in a worse position than he was when he started as the head coach, which is a not a good thing.

Hottoddie
12-12-2006, 12:48 PM
I'm rock solid in Kubiak's corner. No doubts here!

ToroFan
12-12-2006, 02:01 PM
I don't think you can fairly evaluate any coach in less than a few years. Kubiak has had success at every stop - the rest of this team has not. It will take some time for him to get his people in place, but he has already shown he'll make personnel changes to fit his system, regardless of perceived status on the team. I am optimistic about Kubiak.

How has he had success at every stop?

Mr. White
12-12-2006, 02:07 PM
How has he had success at every stop?

He made the playoffs and been to 2 Super Bowls as a player with the Broncos.
He won a Super Bowl as a QB coach at SF.
We won 2 Super Bowls as OC at Denver.

I trust his credentials.

TexansSeminole
12-12-2006, 02:16 PM
I like Gary Kubiak as our head coach, and I think he will be here for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if he is analyzing things a little too much.

I've been reading his pressers and things and it seems like he thinks a little too much about things...trying to put his players in the best position. While I think this is a good thing that he tries to put his players in the best position...I think sometimes he needs to just let his players play.

Read this Monday Presser (specifically the part about him telling Wynn to not field a punt):

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3193&section=N%20Latest%20News

Again, I think Kubiak is a great coach, but I think he has had some rookie head coaching mistakes this year (as most first year head coaches do).

What do you guys think?

The Dream
12-12-2006, 02:21 PM
I think what's hurt Kubiak most is his arrogance/confidence in himself.....he thought that he didn't need any significant upgrades to his offense, and he believed he could make David Carr a great Quarterback

TexansSeminole
12-12-2006, 02:23 PM
I think what's hurt Kubiak most is his arrogance/confidence in himself.....he thought that he didn't need any significant upgrades to his offense, and he believed he could make David Carr a great Quarterback

I agree a bit on what your saying, but I really don't think David Carr is really his guy like he acts like he is. Kubiak seems to be a guy who is loyal to who he has but is realistic in if they need to be replaced or not.

TexansSeminole
12-12-2006, 02:25 PM
Why did my thread get merged with this one....while they both are about Kubiak...a bit of a difference dont you think?

Not about being wobbly...its about if you think he is analyzing...I am not asking if people are happy or not with the choice of Kubiak as the coach.

Please put the thread back.

hollywood_texan
12-12-2006, 02:26 PM
He made the playoffs and been to 2 Super Bowls as a player with the Broncos.
He won a Super Bowl as a QB coach at SF.
We won 2 Super Bowls as OC at Denver.

I trust his credentials.

All the credentials you mention, he wasn't an integral part of the successes, to some extent he was along for the ride.

Now, he does know the formula of success that has worked in Denver, but that doesn't mean he can replicate it again.

Kubiak is a smart guy and appears to be a good coach, but that doesn't mean he will be a successful head coach. So far, he has made more poor to bad decisions than good ones.

Kubiak is quickly digging a hole that he will have a hard time getting out of. But then again, that seems to be what happens to the Franchise as a whole no matter who is in charge or plays for the team.

ToroFan
12-12-2006, 02:33 PM
He made the playoffs and been to 2 Super Bowls as a player with the Broncos.
He won a Super Bowl as a QB coach at SF.
We won 2 Super Bowls as OC at Denver.

I trust his credentials.

- Making the playoffs and getting to the Super Bowl as a backup QB, while great accomplishments, I don't know if that qualifies in coaching credentials.

As the QB coach for the 49ers for one year, I am not sure how much he was able to develop Steve Young. Steve Young was already pretty good prior to Kubiak, and a lot can said for Shanahan's (and Bill Walsh's) influence in that regard.

As offensive coordinator of the Broncos, he never called the plays. Shanahan calls the plays

I too thought Kubiak's resume looked good on paper, but once you dissect it closely, he's not that experienced at 1) playcalling 2) turning young quarterbacks into great ones. He has worked with great quarterbacks when they were already great such as (Young for one season, and Elway after he had been in the league for more than a decade), and he worked with some average ones with Jake Plummer and Brian Griese (which had lukewarm success with the first, and no success with the latter).

Perhaps we missed the ball by not hiring Cam Cameron, the offensive coordinator of San Diego. He did a great job with Bress and now Rivers, and his playcalling has been pretty awesome (although with LT in the backfield, that probably helps out quite a bit).

Sean Payton would have also been a good hire in retrospect. Some of the playcalls he made against Parcells were fantastic.

While at first I said that Kubiak needs to fired, I've calmed down a bit. But I think his history of accomplishments are a bit suspect. And his miscalculation on David Carr is a pretty blunder considering he makes his reputation as being a QB guru. The cutting of Robaire Smith also made no sense.

Does that mean that I think it was a wobbly decision? Definitely. A lot of people point to this team as being a 2-14 team last year and thus it lacks talent. But I think those people wanted Dom Capers fired because they knew that we had more talent to be better than 2-14. We were 7-9 two years ago. I also think that if we finish 4-12 that shouldn't please anyone. Afterall, we won 4 games in our first year as an expansion franchise and I think we have more talent now than when we did then.

Mr. White
12-12-2006, 02:34 PM
All the credentials you mention, he wasn't an integral part of the successes, to some extent he was along for the ride.


To some extent John Elway was along for the ride too.

hollywood_texan
12-12-2006, 02:36 PM
To some extent John Elway was along for the ride too.

You are comparing Kubiak to Elway?

Shannahan hadn't won playoff game since Elway left until last year.

I don't understand your point.

Elway and Davis were critical to those Super Bowl runs, hands down!

Kubiak may not be as good as everyone thinks as a head coach, that's all.

Vinny
12-12-2006, 02:37 PM
To some extent John Elway was along for the ride too.
Elway = 3 Super Bowls

Post Elway = 1 Playoff win

ToroFan
12-12-2006, 02:37 PM
To some extent John Elway was along for the ride too.

In comparing the success that the Broncos have had since then, it seems as though John Elway was pulling the wagon.

TexansSeminole
12-12-2006, 02:39 PM
Elway = 3 Super Bowls

Post Elway = 1 Playoff win

Proof that you need a dominant QB in this system?

Mr. White
12-12-2006, 02:40 PM
As offensive coordinator of the Broncos, he never called the plays. Shanahan calls the plays


Got a link for that? I've heard it both ways. I read a quote this offseason from Rod Smith that Kubiak called the plays.

Calling for a guy's head who hasn't even been here a year is ridiculous.

HOU-TEX
12-12-2006, 02:43 PM
Got a link for that? I've heard it both ways. I read a quote this offseason from Rod Smith that Kubiak called the plays.

Calling for a guy's head who hasn't even been here a year is ridiculous.

IIRC, Kubiak called the plays. Shanahan had the right to override the call if desired.:)

Mr. White
12-12-2006, 02:47 PM
You are comparing Kubiak to Elway?

Shannahan hadn't won playoff game since Elway left until last year.

I don't understand your point.

Elway and Davis were critical to those Super Bowl runs, hands down!

Kubiak may not be as good as everyone thinks as a head coach, that's all.

My point is that it's a team game.

Asst. Coaches don't just hold the cord for the Head Coach's headset. If Kubiak flops as a Head Coach, then he wouldn't be the first failed OC.

To bash the guy at this point is a joke.

Mr. White
12-12-2006, 02:55 PM
Elway = 3 Super Bowls

Post Elway = 1 Playoff win

:pigfly: I never thought I'd see the day that the Sensei was wrong.

Elway went to 4 Super Bowls. :aikido:

***edit****
5 Super Bowls. Just checked. Nobody remembers who the Niners beat in the 89 Super Bowl anyways.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-12-2006, 02:59 PM
I believe in my heart of hearts that Kubiak will take us to the promised land.

He took on a huge mess this year and has handled it about as well as you could in my opinion. I know every team has to fight the injury bug, but our costliest injuries have come at the three positions we could least afford them.

The Texans looked like to me that they were turning the corner on the offensive line. Charles Spencer was moving people at left tackle. Things were looking ok on the right side, and we finally got a legit NFL center.

The bright side of these injuries is that other guys, including rookie Winston, are getting some valuable game time experience. We could actually have some depth at o-line next year.

I'm not even going to talk about QB. It has been argued ad nauseum.

The defense struggled so bad early that the stats for the whole year are skewed, but this group of guys have really come on and played well. They are only going to get better. Perhaps we'll see some corner and safety help for Dunta and an outside linebacker to compliment our (hopefully) defensive rookie of the year.

I was really down in the dumps after the game Sunday. I should have waited 48 hours before posting anything. I'm back to being a glass is half-full kind of guy.

Again, I believe Kubes is our man. I don't know who will be here when he wins his first playoff game, but the guys that are on his team and coaching staff better give him all they've got. If they don't, they will be gone.


:rant: :texan: :wherewill

MojoX
12-12-2006, 03:00 PM
Elway = 3 Super Bowls

Post Elway = 1 Playoff win

Not to take anything away from Elway, but, um, Denver won 2 Superbowls and Big John didn't get over the hump until some cat named Terrell Davis came along and tore up the league. That said, I acknowledege your point that the Broncos were a hell of a force largely because of Elway: 3 Superbowl appearances before finally winning 2 (under a new coach and with a run-game).

Those post-Elway numbers can be misleading. The post-Elway era is also the post-TD era. Davis never over came injuries that began to consume him during the 1998 season. The Broncos have been trying to replace both TD and Elway since. I'm not surprised of the Broncos struggles given the talent they bled after 1998.

OrangeCountyTexansFan
12-12-2006, 03:01 PM
Obviously Kubiak himself is not going anyplace in the near future, but if Texan fans are completely honest with themselves, you have to admit that Kubiack has already made or contributed to the worst and most damaging decisions in this franchises history. If you don't buy that, then you're deluding yourself.
So, do we just need to get a new coach every year? Bring back Dom? Try a little patience. He's never head-coached before, he is going to make mistakes. He is head coach, not God. Sheesh!

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-12-2006, 03:04 PM
Why did my thread get merged with this one....while they both are about Kubiak...a bit of a difference dont you think?

Not about being wobbly...its about if you think he is analyzing...I am not asking if people are happy or not with the choice of Kubiak as the coach.

Please put the thread back.

I had a similar problem the other day with a VY thread I tried to start. Give up. It's like talking to a wall.

I've found in life that once someone makes a public decision it is hard for them to reverse it, even if they know it was a bad one.

TexansSeminole
12-12-2006, 03:05 PM
I had a similar problem the other day with a VY thread I tried to start. Give up. It's like talking to a wall.

I've found in life that once someone makes a public decision it is hard for them to reverse it, even if they know it was a bad one.

I don't really mind that much...it's just that most people will address the first post and not my post. I just wanted to know if people thought that Kubiak might be analyzing things too much.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-12-2006, 03:09 PM
I don't really mind that much...it's just that most people will address the first post and not my post. I just wanted to know if people thought that Kubiak might be analyzing things too much.


I don't have enough information about how he makes his decisions to comment on that. I can say that this team looks more spirited than Doom Capers' squads, and at times they look a whole lot crisper. I like the way Kubiak adresses the media. I also like the diplomatic way he talks about his staff and players to the media.

I think we got the right guy. Remember, he's learning on the job. I've had some experience with that recently myself. It isn't always easy, and he always looks poised.

TexansSeminole
12-12-2006, 03:12 PM
I can't tell either. While sometimes it seems like he is...he knows alot about football (a thousand times more than me) so I can't tell if its just genius or over analyzing.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-12-2006, 03:20 PM
I can't tell either. While sometimes it seems like he is...he knows alot about football (a thousand times more than me) so I can't tell if its just genius or over analyzing.


As you can see, I'm 37 years old. The only organized football I ever played was at the YMCA. My last year of that I was undersized and too slow. I had to give it up. It hurt. It still does.

My passion for the game has never waned. The more I learn about football, the more I realize how much I don't know. Most people have absolutely no idea what that quarterback has going on in his mind as he scans the field walking from the huddle to the center. I can't say I completely do either.

There are only 32 NFL head coaches amongst the thousands and thousands of football coaches across this land. It would stand to reason that if you have landed an NFL head coaching gig, you probably know a thing or two about football.

TexansSeminole
12-12-2006, 03:21 PM
There are only 32 NFL head coaches amongst the thousands and thousands of football coaches across this land. It would stand to reason that if you have landed an NFL head coaching gig, you probably know a thing or two about football.

No doubt he is very knowledgable.

Honoring Earl 34
12-12-2006, 03:22 PM
I think Kubiak tried some things that did not work out ... that happens . What will make or break him is how fast he can adapt and how accurate his tweaking is .

Its not Kubiak's fault if he does'nt have the players to execute his system . In comes Ric Smith and between he and Kubiak they need to bring in the right players with a thin margin for error .

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-12-2006, 03:26 PM
I think Kubiak tried some things that did not work out ... that happens . What will make or break him is how fast he can adapt and how accurate his tweaking is .

Its not Kubiak's fault if he does'nt have the players to execute his system . In comes Ric Smith and between he and Kubiak they need to bring in the right players with a thin margin for error .

I agree, and I don't think this squad is as far away from good as it seems.

Honoring Earl 34
12-12-2006, 03:36 PM
It would be just the reverse of some teams . First they need to get healthy ... then draft well again and its on .

What they've got is two really good young defenders and are a couple of players away from having a outstanding defense . Thats a big one because they're in most games .

I would draft Peterson ... I think he gives you another threat to score . Plus it puts butts in the seats . I'd call Atlanta ... they either have to ditch Vick or sign Schaub . I think Vick and Peterson in the same backfield would give the Colts a heart attack .

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-12-2006, 03:43 PM
It would be just the reverse of some teams . First they need to get healthy ... then draft well again and its on .

What they've got is two really good young defenders and are a couple of players away from having a outstanding defense . Thats a big one because they're in most games .

I would draft Peterson ... I think he gives you another threat to score . Plus it puts butts in the seats . I'd call Atlanta ... they either have to ditch Vick or sign Schaub . I think Vick and Peterson in the same backfield would give the Colts a heart attack .

Now I disagree.

I'd like to have Peterson, but there is no guarantee he will be available when the Texans pick. Lots of teams would like to have Peterson.

I think "Ron Mexico" is the most overrated quarterback in the league. Well, Ben Rberger may have him beat.

Vinny
12-12-2006, 03:51 PM
Not to take anything away from Elway, but, um, Denver won 2 Superbowls and Big John didn't get over the hump until some cat named Terrell Davis came along and tore up the league. That said, I acknowledege your point that the Broncos were a hell of a force largely because of Elway: 3 Superbowl appearances before finally winning 2 (under a new coach and with a run-game).

Those post-Elway numbers can be misleading. The post-Elway era is also the post-TD era. Davis never over came injuries that began to consume him during the 1998 season. The Broncos have been trying to replace both TD and Elway since. I'm not surprised of the Broncos struggles given the talent they bled after 1998.
Looks like someone corrected my mistake. Elway went to 5 Super Bowls. You have to win at least 2 playoff games to get to each Super Bowl so he has to have at least 12 playoff victories. The Broncos still have one playoff victory since he retired in 1998. I'm sure that post Elway number isn't misleading.

Second Honeymoon
12-12-2006, 03:53 PM
Kubiak has made two major decisions since his arrival. Both have blown up in his face. That doesnt make me very optimistic for the future and for any type of extended tenure but you can't fire someone after just one year irregardless of how much of a complete disaster it has been.

ToroFan
12-12-2006, 03:58 PM
How do you feel Kubiak fares against the other first year coaches? At this point I think Payton and Mangini are doing better, and I don't think McCarthy in Green Bay, Marinelli in Detroit, Art Shell in Oakland have fared any better than Kubiak. Am I forgetting any of the other first year coaches?

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-12-2006, 04:01 PM
How do you feel Kubiak fares against the other first year coaches? At this point I think Payton and Mangini are doing better, and I don't think McCarthy in Green Bay, Marinelli in Detroit, Art Shell in Oakland have fared any better than Kubiak. Am I forgetting any of the other first year coaches?

Payton and Mangini were given teams with talent superior to the Texans.

Art Shell is not a first year coach.

ToroFan
12-12-2006, 04:03 PM
Payton and Mangini were given teams with talent superior to the Texans.

Art Shell is not a first year coach.

Let me rephrase, newly hired coaches

Second Honeymoon
12-12-2006, 04:09 PM
Payton and Mangini were given teams with talent superior to the Texans.

Art Shell is not a first year coach.


haha says who. The Saints were the 3rd worst team in league, the Jets 4th worst team in league. In the offseason, we supposedly had this 'great draft'...well then how do they have superior talent.

Saints lost their Pro Bowl center Bentley. Saints lost their DE Howard who made the ProBowl. Jets lost their Pro Bowl cornerback Ty Law. Who the hell did we lose? How in the hell do you figure they have superior talent? They have superior QBs but not according to the homers on this board. They just want it more and are committed to making it happen. They aint worried about hurting peoples feelings or admitting that they made a mistake with the 1st overall pick of the franchise. They dont try and spin everything and go PR crazy like our franchise. WE ARE AN EMBARASSMENT. And its not due only to talent. It has to do with a culture of losing and sub-mediocrity that has permeated this franchise since Day One....but keep making excuses and claiming everyone else is so much better than us and that we dont have the talent. You are playing right into McIgnorant's hands.

The Saints and Jets are winning because they werent afraid to make big moves

p.s. BattleRedBull...love the avatar. I think that win against Oakland is gonna cost us a chance to draft that stud....doh

mganz
12-12-2006, 04:13 PM
I think what's hurt Kubiak most is his arrogance/confidence in himself.....he thought that he didn't need any significant upgrades to his offense, and he believed he could make David Carr a great Quarterback

Every post i've seen you make refers back to, carr sucks, I think we get it

The Dream
12-12-2006, 04:15 PM
Every post i've seen you make refers back to, carr sucks, I think we get it


Yes Carr does suck, but I didn't mention it in that post...that was about Kubiak.

ib4texans
12-12-2006, 04:17 PM
haha says who. The Saints were the 3rd worst team in league, the Jets 4th worst team in league. In the offseason, we supposedly had this 'great draft'...well then how do they have superior talent.

Saints lost their Pro Bowl center. Saints lost their DE Howard who made the ProBowl. Jets lost their Pro Bowl cornerback. Who did we lose? How in the hell do you figure they have superior talent? They have superior QBs but not according to the homers on this board. They just want it more and are committed to making it happen. They aint worried about hurting peoples feelings or admitting that they made a mistake with the 1st overall pick of the franchise. They dont try and spin everything and go PR crazy like our franchise. WE ARE AN EMBARASSMENT. And its not due only to talent. It has to do with a culture of losing and sub-mediocrity that has permeated this franchise since Day One....but keep making excuses and claiming everyone else is so much better than us and that we dont have the talent. You are playing right into McIgnorant's hands.




I agree that Drew Brees is a much better QB, Pennington.........no I don't think so, the Jets had a Houston meltdown this past weekend against the Bills. This happens with Pennington every couple of weeks,what he lacks is consistency. Now, if he could complete 69.4% of his passes. LOL:homer:

Second Honeymoon
12-12-2006, 04:19 PM
haha says who. The Saints were the 3rd worst team in league, the Jets 4th worst team in league. In the offseason, we supposedly had this 'great draft'...well then how do they have superior talent.

Saints lost their Pro Bowl center. Saints lost their DE Howard who made the ProBowl. Jets lost their Pro Bowl cornerback. Who did we lose? How in the hell do you figure they have superior talent? They have superior QBs but not according to the homers on this board. They just want it more and are committed to making it happen. They aint worried about hurting peoples feelings or admitting that they made a mistake with the 1st overall pick of the franchise. They dont try and spin everything and go PR crazy like our franchise. WE ARE AN EMBARASSMENT. And its not due only to talent. It has to do with a culture of losing and sub-mediocrity that has permeated this franchise since Day One....but keep making excuses and claiming everyone else is so much better than us and that we dont have the talent. You are playing right into McNair's hands.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-12-2006, 04:21 PM
haha says who. The Saints were the 3rd worst team in league, the Jets 4th worst team in league. In the offseason, we supposedly had this 'great draft'...well then how do they have superior talent.

Saints lost their Pro Bowl center Bentley. Saints lost their DE Howard who made the ProBowl. Jets lost their Pro Bowl cornerback Ty Law. Who the hell did we lose? How in the hell do you figure they have superior talent? They have superior QBs but not according to the homers on this board. They just want it more and are committed to making it happen. They aint worried about hurting peoples feelings or admitting that they made a mistake with the 1st overall pick of the franchise. They dont try and spin everything and go PR crazy like our franchise. WE ARE AN EMBARASSMENT. And its not due only to talent. It has to do with a culture of losing and sub-mediocrity that has permeated this franchise since Day One....but keep making excuses and claiming everyone else is so much better than us and that we dont have the talent. You are playing right into McIgnorant's hands.

The Saints and Jets are winning because they werent afraid to make big moves

p.s. BattleRedBull...love the avatar. I think that win against Oakland is gonna cost us a chance to draft that stud....doh

When I look at your post from the avatar down to the signature, I see a lot of hate and frustration.

I feel your pain, but it does me no good to express it the way you do.

Second Honeymoon
12-12-2006, 04:21 PM
The Saints were 8-8 in 04 and 3-13 in 05 because Tag, that SOB, put them on the road 13 out of 16 weeks. They had talent but Katrina and Tag bounced them off a concrete wall.

I actually think that excuse is a VALID excuse....great counterpoint...but eventually we have to stop searching for excuses and start searching for solutions

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-12-2006, 04:22 PM
I actually think that excuse is a VALID excuse....great counterpoint...but eventually we have to stop searching for excuses and start searching for solutions

And who was at quarterback for the Jets last year?

Second Honeymoon
12-12-2006, 04:32 PM
I agree that Drew Brees is a much better QB, Pennington.........no I don't think so, the Jets had a Houston meltdown this past weekend against the Bills. This happens with Pennington every couple of weeks,what he lacks is consistency. Now, if he could complete 69.4% of his passes. LOL:homer:

Pennington is better than David. I stand by that statement. Is he great? No and he has had injury problems and that is something that David hasnt had for the most part. But he does possess a good arm, nice touch, and is an extremely intelligent QB. He has lacked some consistency but I think the upside and intangibles are why they didn't go for Leinart at #4. They could be wrong but the jury is still out on that, whereas the Texans have already been tried, convicted, and sentenced for their offseason gaffe....fair or not fair, the verdict was read out loud and clear last Sunday in Reliant Stadium.

Hey dont try and put words into my mouth that I think the Jets are a great team, that is my point. They arent a great team but they have found a way to get some wins this year and have less talent (as a whole) imho than we do. I wonder why? It might be sad, but when you are attempting to find teams to compare the last 2 years of Texans football to, dont be surprised when you find yourself talking about Raiders, Cardinals, and Jets.

GO TEXANS IN 07!!

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-12-2006, 04:41 PM
And who was at quarterback for the Jets last year?

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/NYJ/2005/regular

The Jets played 5 quarterbacks last year with Brooks Bollinger getting most of the snaps. Check the above link. Fiedler, vinny, brooks... Again, I believe the Jets are a more talented team than the Texans. The injury bug got Pennington and it was all down hill from there.

:ohsnap:

ib4texans
12-12-2006, 04:54 PM
Pennington is better than David. I stand by that statement. Is he great? No and he has had injury problems and that is something that David hasnt had for the most part. But he does possess a good arm, nice touch, and is an extremely intelligent QB. He has lacked some consistency but I think the upside and intangibles are why they didn't go for Leinart at #4. They could be wrong but the jury is still out on that, whereas the Texans have already been tried, convicted, and sentenced for their offseason gaffe....fair or not fair, the verdict was read out loud and clear last Sunday in Reliant Stadium.

Hey dont try and put words into my mouth that I think the Jets are a great team, that is my point. They arent a great team but they have found a way to get some wins this year and have less talent (as a whole) imho than we do. I wonder why? It might be sad, but when you are attempting to find teams to compare the last 2 years of Texans football to, dont be surprised when you find yourself talking about Raiders, Cardinals, and Jets.

GO TEXANS IN 07!!


SH,

The first part of your response was well worded and calm, second part you were a little excited(thats to be expected).

I was'nt trying to put words in your mouth at all, I couldn't find any reference that might lead you to believe so. You do bring up the issue of team though, without bringing the QB into the equation the Raiders and Jets have superior D's. The Cardinals defense has played like ours this year, flashes of excellence with more consistency. I have no beef with you I know where you stand as far as QB's concerned and wouldn't begin to think I could/should change your mind. I think when we play the Brown's it will be a great gauge for the team, because the two teams are very similar in makeup. Both have QB problems,running game problems,1 good WR and 1 aging WR, good TE and fairly fuctional defense. That game will show where we stand as a team.

Mr. White
12-12-2006, 05:32 PM
p.s. BattleRedBull...love the avatar. I think that win against Oakland is gonna cost us a chance to draft that stud....doh

The dude's a monster. He's the franchise LT that we need. We could move Spencer to RT and Winston to Guard. It'd be a helluva start toward a dominant OL. He kills DBs when they blitz.

I guess Marshawn "PacMan" Lynch would be my 2nd choice. He'd be a good target for the dinks and dunks.




Shows where my head is now....back to the topic.

TexansSeminole
12-12-2006, 05:43 PM
I agree that Drew Brees is a much better QB, Pennington.........no I don't think so, the Jets had a Houston meltdown this past weekend against the Bills. This happens with Pennington every couple of weeks,what he lacks is consistency. Now, if he could complete 69.4% of his passes. LOL:homer:

Ha, maybe some team should hire Carr for their scouting department. He can throw the short routes for the receivers they are scouting in their private workouts.

srstex
12-12-2006, 05:48 PM
The Jet's drafted D'Brick to keep Chad safe, the Texans drafted on the other side of the ball.
The Saints have been up & down for a while now ( decade ), mostly thanks to Brooks, but he's Oakland's problem now, and the new system is tailored every week to players Peyton has, and the opponent, which sounds nothing like our coaching mentallity.
Long live " Next Year" so far it's the only good looking year.

MojoX
12-12-2006, 06:17 PM
Looks like someone corrected my mistake. Elway went to 5 Super Bowls. You have to win at least 2 playoff games to get to each Super Bowl so he has to have at least 12 playoff victories. The Broncos still have one playoff victory since he retired in 1998. I'm sure that post Elway number isn't misleading.
Still no Terrell Davis after 1998, the last season he could play through the injuries. Attributing post 1998 all to losing Elway is too simple. It is hard to win a playoff game after losing both your top QB and top RB. Denver has been rebuilding ever since.

What I find misleading is the idea that Denver's struggles have been because they lost Elway period. I think it is because they lost both a hall of fame QB AND a hall of fame quality running back who had led the league in rushing for 3 straight seasons. Maybe that makes no difference to you, but it does to me. I'm not belittling Elway but I am trying to give TD his props, too. Elway was incredible and carried that team for quite a while (just as it looks like VY will be doing with the Titans for the next xx years). I expected Denver to struggle to win in the playoffs when he retired but thought they could continue riding TD with Brian Griese at QB and get better as Griese got better. But it looks like all the wheels came off that bus in like 1 season. Despite the running back by committee approach, there was no replacing what TD brought to that team, just like they couldn't replace what Elway brought to the team.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
12-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Regardless of his passing on Bush and VY, I like the overall draft. As a result of our selections, we added:

1. A MLB that is likely the DROY
2. A DE that will man the left side of the line for the next decade
3. A TE that actually gives the Texans a receiving threat at the position for the first time since Billy Miller left. Additionally, Daniels isn't the liability at blocking that Miller was.
4. A true #2 receiver (the 5th we gave Buffalo for Moulds)
5. Two potential starters on the O-line
6. A 6th round RB that if nothing else, has contributed in his rookie year.

The only real question mark I have is Walter, and we gave up a 7th rounder and a few too many dollars for him. This team had never had a good draft class. I don't think people realize how devoid this team was of talent at the end of last year. Looking at the guys we had at the end of last year, there are only three "keepers" that I would take with me to build a team from scratch: AJ, Dunta Robinson, and Jerome Mathis. As much as it pains me, that is where this team is.

We Kubiak came onto this scene we were a pathetic 2-14 team with really no areas of strength. Every facet of the game needed to be fixed except possibly the rushing attack, but that was when we had DD. Kubiak has built up the receiving core, improved the front seven on defense, and protected Carr from taking the same level of beating he did last year (physically that is). He has a lot of work but he has made strides.

How do you figure Walter was not worth a 7th rounder, and they did not pay him too much money for what they got. The offense was designed to let Carr air it with a 3WR set. DD was to be back, Offensive line was to get gelling, it all FELL APART. Walter is definitly a #3 on any team in the nfl and a legit #2 on many of the teams in the NFL. Without knowing the playcalling and the progression of the reads (blame Carr, because reads are a QB thing) you can only look at the production he had when his number was called, and almost EVERY catch was for a 1st DOWN!!! That is reliabliity and a clutch guy.

Besides, you think MATHIS would have been able get up after being jacked up by Williams in Dallas... He is tough, excellent hands, dedicated hard work ethic and constantly looks to see how he can improve his game and never settles!!!

Kubse knows what Kevin can do and I only hope he gets the opportunity for many of the Texan fans to see what a special WR he really is and has been passed under the radar thus far.

dantem
12-15-2006, 04:31 PM
Wow, now the hatred has shifted to Kubiak, this is pitiful.

How a bout this, How many of you like Texans Fans. They have been pretty pathetic as well this year.