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gtexan02
12-12-2006, 12:21 AM
Just for comparison sake, I thought I'd chart up a comparison of how Mario Williams is comparing to the rest of his rookie class. not only was he the top rated defensive prospect, but he was the #1 overall choice much to the dismay of fans of VY and RB. So here are the stats:

I only posted the stats of all the DEs through the 2nd round, and then includued some notables later on. A lot of the other 3rd-7th rounders aren't playing enough to count.

Mario Williams, DE Texans - 1st round 1st pick
27 solo tackles, 9 assisted tackles, 4.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints

Kamerion Wimbley, DE Browns - 1st round 13th pick
34 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 7.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints
(starting as an OLB this year)

Tamba Hali, DE Chiefs - 1st round 20th pick
38 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5 ff, 0 ints
(starting at DE this year)

Mathias Kiwanuke, DE Giants - 1st round 32nd pick
28 solo tackles, 6 assisted tackles, 4.0 sacks, 2 ff, 2 ints
(started as a backup DE this year)

Darryl Tapp, DE Seahawks - 2nd round 31st pick
12 solo tackles, 3 assisted tackles, 3.0 sacks, 1 ff, 1 int
(backs up G. Wistron this year at DE)

Elvis Dumervil, DE Broncos - 4th round, 29th pick
11 solo tackles, 1 assisted tackle, 7.0 sacks, 0 ff, 0 int
(backs up Ekuban at DE, only played in 10 games)

Mark Anderson, DE Bears - 5th round, 27th pick
17 solo tackles, 5 assisted tackles, 8.0 sacks, 3 ff, 0 int
(backs up Alex Brown at DE this year)


So hows that look to you guys? Not only is he by far the least productive in the first round, but there are 4th and 5th round backup rookie DEs who are out producing him, at least in the sack department.

I keep hearing that DEs take time to develop, but these guys sure don't seem to need it. For a 1st overall choice, he's got a lot of catching up to do.

ib4texans
12-12-2006, 12:29 AM
Just for comparison sake, I thought I'd chart up a comparison of how Mario Williams is comparing to the rest of his rookie class. not only was he the top rated defensive prospect, but he was the #1 overall choice much to the dismay of fans of VY and RB. So here are the stats:

I only posted the stats of all the DEs through the 2nd round, and then includued some notables later on. A lot of the other 3rd-7th rounders aren't playing enough to count.

Mario Williams, DE Texans - 1st round 1st pick
27 solo tackles, 9 assisted tackles, 4.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints

Kamerion Wimbley, DE Browns - 1st round 13th pick
34 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 7.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints
(starting as an OLB this year)

Tamba Hali, DE Chiefs - 1st round 20th pick
38 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5 ff, 0 ints
(starting at DE this year)

Mathias Kiwanuke, DE Giants - 1st round 32nd pick
28 solo tackles, 6 assisted tackles, 4.0 sacks, 2 ff, 2 ints
(started as a backup DE this year)

Darryl Tapp, DE Seahawks - 2nd round 31st pick
12 solo tackles, 3 assisted tackles, 3.0 sacks, 1 ff, 1 int
(backs up G. Wistron this year at DE)

Elvis Dumervil, DE Broncos - 4th round, 29th pick
11 solo tackles, 1 assisted tackle, 7.0 sacks, 0 ff, 0 int
(backs up Ekuban at DE, only played in 10 games)

Mark Anderson, DE Bears - 5th round, 27th pick
17 solo tackles, 5 assisted tackles, 8.0 sacks, 3 ff, 0 int
(backs up Alex Brown at DE this year)


So hows that look to you guys? Not only is he by far the least productive in the first round, but there are 4th and 5th round backup rookie DEs who are out producing him, at least in the sack department.

I keep hearing that DEs take time to develop, but these guys sure don't seem to need it. For a 1st overall choice, he's got a lot of catching up to do.

I venture a guess that these players are not the players that the offense is keying on. I think that there is a high probability these are much better defenses over all. No excuses, I would really like him to be a standout player also.

gtexan02
12-12-2006, 12:31 AM
I thinks its fair to compare these players straight up. Defenses key on great players, and yet the produce all the time.

You have the same argument about Reggie. People said he wasn't lighting it up because defenses were keying on him. I claimed BS, defenses don't key on non-producers.

Just like in this case, I don't think offenses are keying so heavily on MW that he isn't producing. I think he's getting handled by average tackles on a regular basis.

Carr Bombed
12-12-2006, 12:38 AM
I thinks its fair to compare these players straight up. Defenses key on great players, and yet the produce all the time.

Now how about you list which of these players are playing injured with plantar fasciitis. (If you have ever had it............which I have......Its not fun, pretty much let me slam your foot with a sledge and lets see how spunky you are) That will really be helpful as we compare these players as the year goes on........

Napa Auto Parts
12-12-2006, 12:38 AM
any chance of us being able to swap that mike anderson fellow for williams now he has game for a rookie.

dtran04
12-12-2006, 12:38 AM
Then again, I also notice how it awfully hard to produce if teams run to the other side. In coachdent's thread about the OAK game, he mentioned:

Out of 22 runs, 4 were to his side and that they equaled a grand total of 4 yards I believe. There were two other plays to his side that resulted in holding penalties at the point of attack.
With us losing most of the games, that means more runs for the opposing team, giving our DLine less opportunies (also one could say thats why Demeco has such high stats) Anderson of the Bears has an inflated number of sacks since his team is always ahead. Perfect example is the game today vs STL. They were up big and STL had to take 7 step drops and wait for long routes to develop.

Roughnecks
12-12-2006, 12:43 AM
Mario will be fine. Most of those guy's have supporting cast as for Mario he has Ryans a fellow rookie. I think once this team starts peacing this defense together Mario will be one of the best through out the year. Plus he has played injured what half the season so stop dumping on him give him a little credit for going out and playing injured in this day in age where turf toe or a hang nail will keep you out 2 to 3 weeks.

Titan "Tack" Fan
12-12-2006, 12:45 AM
This is a very good way to compare him to other draft picks in a fair way. It proves a lot.

MojoX
12-12-2006, 12:48 AM
I thinks its fair to compare these players straight up. Defenses key on great players, and yet the produce all the time.

You have the same argument about Reggie. People said he wasn't lighting it up because defenses were keying on him. I claimed BS, defenses don't key on non-producers.

Just like in this case, I don't think offenses are keying so heavily on MW that he isn't producing. I think he's getting handled by average tackles on a regular basis.
This is his first freakin' season. At least let's see what he does next year before we pass judgement. It is not unusual for a guy to take a season or two to develop. At 21 years of age, at his size and ability and the fact that this rookie is playing through an injury so painful that he has to wear a special boot and is held out of Wednesday practices, Mario Williams does not concern me. I believe he will prove to be the Richard Seymour of this defense.

While these other guys (most of whom are on better teams) are doing well, many other top defensive linemen have statistically started slowly while others have simply been flashes in the pan. I prefer to just watch how he dose his job (when I get to see him play) and am anxiously waiting to see how year 2 goes.

dtran04
12-12-2006, 12:54 AM
So WHERE do you run against a team with a TOTAL DEFENSE?
Bears?
Chargers?
Broncos?
And so on and so forth...

Just flip a coin in the huddle?

Sorry bubba, but the Bears have come from behind in SEVERAL games this year.

Against a TOTAL defense, you spread it out... run it both sides. If I were to run against the Texans, I would run it at Babin/Peek ANYTIME they are on the field. They are backed up by the great Morlon Greenwood.

Carr Bombed
12-12-2006, 12:59 AM
This is a very good way to compare him to other draft picks in a fair way. It proves a lot.

If I was a fan of another team that has probably only seen just a couple of games and pulled up stat sheets for the rest, I would probably think the same.

Mario is injured and has absolutely no help in the secondary.......this isn't a cop out....its the truth.

Mario is going to be a good player.......just wait.

MojoX
12-12-2006, 01:00 AM
Mario will be fine. Most of those guy's have supporting cast as for Mario he has Ryans a fellow rookie. I think once this team starts peacing this defense together Mario will be one of the best through out the year. Plus he has played injured what half the season so stop dumping on him give him a little credit for going out and playing injured in this day in age where turf toe or a hang nail will keep you out 2 to 3 weeks.

Gotta agree here. Mario and Ryans are major pieces of what could be a top flight defense. Get another guy on the line, some LB help and a legit safety (or corner) and this defense is ready to go. We gotta remember that this ain't the same Texans as a year ago. This is year 1 of the new phase. I'm trying to be patient and see how Kubiak and Smith round this baby out this next offseason.

phan1
12-12-2006, 01:19 AM
So based on these #s, you want to tell me that you would choose any of these guys over Mario Williams? Give me a break. I really hate stat whores. I think I'll rave about Carr's completion %, and VY's terrible QB rating while I'm at it. :rolleyes:

LORK 88
12-12-2006, 01:49 AM
Playing DE goes way beyond what the stats tell.

Ibar_Harry
12-12-2006, 01:56 AM
Just for comparison sake, I thought I'd chart up a comparison of how Mario Williams is comparing to the rest of his rookie class. not only was he the top rated defensive prospect, but he was the #1 overall choice much to the dismay of fans of VY and RB. So here are the stats:

I only posted the stats of all the DEs through the 2nd round, and then includued some notables later on. A lot of the other 3rd-7th rounders aren't playing enough to count.

Mario Williams, DE Texans - 1st round 1st pick
27 solo tackles, 9 assisted tackles, 4.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints

Kamerion Wimbley, DE Browns - 1st round 13th pick
34 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 7.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints
(starting as an OLB this year)

Tamba Hali, DE Chiefs - 1st round 20th pick
38 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5 ff, 0 ints
(starting at DE this year)

Mathias Kiwanuke, DE Giants - 1st round 32nd pick
28 solo tackles, 6 assisted tackles, 4.0 sacks, 2 ff, 2 ints
(started as a backup DE this year)

Darryl Tapp, DE Seahawks - 2nd round 31st pick
12 solo tackles, 3 assisted tackles, 3.0 sacks, 1 ff, 1 int
(backs up G. Wistron this year at DE)

Elvis Dumervil, DE Broncos - 4th round, 29th pick
11 solo tackles, 1 assisted tackle, 7.0 sacks, 0 ff, 0 int
(backs up Ekuban at DE, only played in 10 games)

Mark Anderson, DE Bears - 5th round, 27th pick
17 solo tackles, 5 assisted tackles, 8.0 sacks, 3 ff, 0 int
(backs up Alex Brown at DE this year)


So hows that look to you guys? Not only is he by far the least productive in the first round, but there are 4th and 5th round backup rookie DEs who are out producing him, at least in the sack department.

I keep hearing that DEs take time to develop, but these guys sure don't seem to need it. For a 1st overall choice, he's got a lot of catching up to do.

You try to play with the injury this young man has, play with the pressure this young man has on him, and see how you do. He's dong all he can and then some, but the coaching staff are letting him down by playing him while injured when there is absolutely no reason to do so. We are not going anywhere fast. Its time to put him on IR for the rest of the year as far as I'm concerned.

MojoX
12-12-2006, 02:07 AM
You try to play with the injury this young man has, play with the pressure this young man has on him, and see how you do. He's dong all he can and then some, but the coaching staff are letting him down by playing him while injured when there is absolutely no reason to do so. We are not going anywhere fast. Its time to put him on IR for the rest of the year as far as I'm concerned.

The only advantage I see to keeping him in is that Mario is getting in his reps. Kubiak has lamented the fact that Spencer has to miss his reps so I can see why the coach would want to keep playing him if there isn't much danger to continuing to do so. The experience is irreplaceable.

Supposedly, the injury doesn't tend to worsen. Kubiak said that the MRI recently done on the foot looked better than the last one, but Mario is still pretty beat up. Anyway, I give Mario props for toughing it out and hopefully he'll go Bruce Smith (who posted a whopping 6.5 sacks his first season) on the league after having an offseason to heal and digest his 1st season.

phantom17
12-12-2006, 03:08 AM
This is NOT a fair comparison, the other rooks, if you guys noticed ALOT comes from STOUT DEFENSES- Bears, Broncs, Seahawks, chiefs, the only poor team was Da Browns! I'm sure that this is a luxury if your a rook...or vet, cuz they can't just key in on you or double team you constantly! I can't wait to see a healthy Mario & pieces along with Demeco to help build this D! Needs: FS, CB, DT, LB, man- this is a MUST!!! You have to remember that other teams has the luxury to run away or double team Mario, bad right foot & all! People just need to chill or go follow their man-crushes Vince or Reggie!:shades: :)

TheOgre
12-12-2006, 08:14 AM
I keep hearing that DEs take time to develop, but these guys sure don't seem to need it. For a 1st overall choice, he's got a lot of catching up to do.

Mario isn't built to be a weakside pass rusher like most of the guys listed. He is supposed to be a dominant force against the run that also has some pass-rushing skills. Remember when the Titans had Kevin Carter and Jevon Kearse? He is more like Kevin Carter. The Texans still need the weakside DE that is more of a pass-rusher and less of a run stuffer. I think Mario will be a great LDE for years to come.

I'm not convinced we should have drafted him, but he does fill a big need. Is it his fault that we drafted him? I think when he is healthy next year, he will be more of a force.

eric138
12-12-2006, 08:20 AM
I think Mario really does need to step it up, and it may be that injured foot causing him to play the way he is but I'm not to sure about this whole comparison. To compare these rookies is just like comparing the Texans to the teams they are on. If Mario went to Chicago, I'm pretty sure his stats would be different.

phantom17
12-12-2006, 09:08 AM
Yikes!!! If Mario was drafted by Da-bears & healthy..or not The Windy City will probably be doing the Superbowl Shuffle Part 2!:)

gtexan02
12-12-2006, 10:07 AM
Here are some arguments I keep hearing thrown around:

1) Mario is injured, and is therefore producing less
This is probably a legitimate injury, but before I start cutting him some slack for it I have to ask myself, "If he's so injured, why is he still playing and praticing?" If he's so injruerd that he's not producing at a high level, he should be sitting

2) Mario has no supporting cast or Mario is not on a stout defense
I think this is a terrible excuse. If anything, with all the sacks the other guys on the bears get, its probably more difficult for a rookie to get in there and make the play. Mark Anderson is a backup with 9 sacks now. Mario is the cornerstone of this DL, and so he should be racking up the sacks.
And that just argues his stat numbers. This guy is enormous, and he has 36 tackles. So why doesn't he have even 1 forced fumble? Tamba hali has 5!! No matter how good your surrounding cast is, he's had 36 tackle attempts to jar 1 ball loose, and hasn't done that.

3) He's a rookie, give him time
I'm not sure if you noticed, but every player on that list is a rookie.

Here's how I see it: Maybe he's playing a little hurt, maybe the rest of the cast around him isn't the best, maybe he just needs more time. But the fact of the matter is we drafted Mario Williams because he was supposed to come in here and produce THIS YEAR.

One of the biggest knocks on some of the other guys we were looking at was they needed time to adjust to the NFL. Mario was supposed to make an INSTANT impact, and in my eye, he has failed. The fact that backup Dlineman on other teams with the same amount of NFL experience and the fact that every other 1st rounder is playing better leads me to believe that he has failed this year.

Maybe he'll prove me wrong in a year or two, but thats not the point of this. We didn't want to draft a project, and thats exactly what we got.

austintexanite
12-12-2006, 11:06 AM
Mario has been hurt for a significant portion of the year, and from I gather his injury is pretty painful. I think it's what Tim Duncan had all last year, and he had his worse year last year, now he's back to playing like he used to. Even with the injury, Mario has been a big boost to stopping the run, as opposing teams don't really like to run towards his side. Kiwi has Strahan; Tapp has Winstrom; Anderson and Dumervil have good D's around them. I liked Tapp and Hali in college and figured they would have solid careers. just my :twocents:

austintexanite
12-12-2006, 11:09 AM
Maybe he'll prove me wrong in a year or two, but thats not the point of this. We didn't want to draft a project, and thats exactly what we got.

Didn't Kiper say that it'll take a lil while for him to make an impact??? I can't remember...anyone remember?? being serious

gsus8091
12-12-2006, 11:10 AM
Yeah I guess Mario sucks. And I guess so does Dwight Freeney.Its so easy to kill a defensive player if he doesn't put up big numbers, but the media doesn't say that every offensive scheme that plays Houston is to make sure they take Mario Williams out of the play. Oh, and another thing would you take Kiwanuka, Hali, Anderson, Tapp, or any other rookie defensive end for that matter over Mario? Didn't think so. And you better believe if Mario was on the Panthers or the Bears or Denver or on any other badass defensive squad he'd be killing it. Its not his fault the secondary can't cover a turtle, let alone long enough for Mario to get a shot at the QB. Thats like saying well why isn't Daunte Robinson not getting alot of INT's, well maybe because Mario and Daunte have specific jobs. Kill the quarterback and blanket the WR, and if the rest of the teams defense completely sucks why would any offensive cordinater run plays at Mario. So why don't you lay off. Your probably one of the fans whose still bitter about the whole Vince Young, Reggie Bush thing anyway. So get over it and move on.

gtexan02
12-12-2006, 11:10 AM
I remember hearing that his size and athleticism would allow him to transition easily into the NFL

gtexan02
12-12-2006, 11:11 AM
Yeah I guess Mario sucks. And I guess so does Dwight Freeney.Its so easy to kill a defensive player if he doesn't put numbers, but the media doesn,t say that every offensive scheme is to make sure they take Mario Williams out of the play. Oh, and another thing would you take Kiwanuka, Hali, Anderson, Tapp, or any other defensive end for that matter over Mario? Didn't think so. Why don't you lay off.

I'm not saying Mario sucks, I'm not saying I would rather have drafted these other guys, if you'll read my previous post, you can see that I think mario has failed this year and is not accomplishing what we brought him here to do

Kaiser Toro
12-12-2006, 11:19 AM
I'm not saying Mario sucks, I'm not saying I would rather have drafted these other guys, if you'll read my previous post, you can see that I think mario has failed this year and is not accomplishing what we brought him here to do

What were we trying to accomplish this year?

I do know that we changed from 3-4 to a 4-3, brought in a new staff, broguht in a DE (Weaver), had two DT's go down with injury, transitioned Peek and Babin back to DE's while knowing that we would be short with Secondary talent and depth.

All the while we made this change and had some large growing pains the first three games we have seen incremental improvement. Not great, but improvement none the less.

BigSaint8050
12-12-2006, 11:59 AM
Didn't Kiper say that it'll take a lil while for him to make an impact??? I can't remember...anyone remember?? being serious

Most draft "experts" said this. He had all the measurables, but he was a project. He was very unpolished, doesn't have many moves, and played against weak competition and when he played big time schools was held in check.

You don't draft a project #1 overall, but what do I know.

jerek
12-12-2006, 12:04 PM
Of course this will be viewed as an excuse by the "I sleep in Vince Young pajamas" crowd, but Mario's been playing on an injured foot for weeks now. He could have easily taken the time off but he's played through it every game. If you watch him there have been many instances in which he has tried to make a cut but was obviously slowed by it.

We drafted him from a nobody school, knew he was young and raw and would require work to develop moves and instincts, and though inconsistent he's shown improvement in both.

run-david-run
12-12-2006, 12:05 PM
I thinks its fair to compare these players straight up. Defenses key on great players, and yet the produce all the time.

You have the same argument about Reggie. People said he wasn't lighting it up because defenses were keying on him. I claimed BS, defenses don't key on non-producers.

Just like in this case, I don't think offenses are keying so heavily on MW that he isn't producing. I think he's getting handled by average tackles on a regular basis.

As coach dent pointed out, teams almost never run at Mario. They consider him dominant enough that the majority of their running plays stay away from him. Meanwhile, he is also leading our team in sacks, and has been for almost the entire season. A DE's impact is just measured in the box score, you have to acctually watch the game. Forcing double teams, which Mario has often done this season, allows other players to make the tackle or get the sack. That is what a lot of the players above are benfiting from because they play with the likes of Michael Strahan, Alex Brown, Tommie Harris, Usi Umenyura, etc. Basicaly, because the lack of talent on our Defense, other teams are treating Mario as our gamebreaker and forcing others to beat them.

TexansLucky13
12-12-2006, 12:07 PM
You don't draft a project #1 overall, but what do I know.

The first pick in the draft is ALWAYS a project. The kid will roll into the NFL thinking he is hot stuff, and then face the fact that it ain't college anymore.

Some players transition easier than others, but all rookies have rookie problems, it's just a fact of life. Even Saint Reginald has made many rookie mistakes (Like half of the season.... Where was he??). InVinceible still has some rookie tendencies as well.

I am in no way a Mario apologist, but his rookie stats mean nothing as long as he is learning how to make it in the NFL.

run-david-run
12-12-2006, 12:13 PM
Most draft "experts" said this. He had all the measurables, but he was a project. He was very unpolished, doesn't have many moves, and played against weak competition and when he played big time schools was held in check.

You don't draft a project #1 overall, but what do I know.It took Reggie about 11 games to score from scrimage on a top 5 offense...sounds like a project to me.

MojoX
12-12-2006, 01:10 PM
Here are some arguments I keep hearing thrown around:

1) Mario is injured, and is therefore producing less
This is probably a legitimate injury, but before I start cutting him some slack for it I have to ask myself, "If he's so injured, why is he still playing and praticing?" If he's so injruerd that he's not producing at a high level, he should be sitting
No probably to it. Do some research and you too will be amazed this guy is still playing on this foot (Google is your friend in this case). And I do feel he should be sitting, but I don't coach the Texans. Mario might not be putting up fantasy stats that casual fans love so much, but he is doing his job and producing enough that the coaches haven't sat him. Here you have a guy playing through an excruciatingly painful injury and that is a cause for criticism? I get the feeling some people will complain about anything....

2) Mario has no supporting cast or Mario is not on a stout defense
I think this is a terrible excuse. If anything, with all the sacks the other guys on the bears get, its probably more difficult for a rookie to get in there and make the play. Mark Anderson is a backup with 9 sacks now. Mario is the cornerstone of this DL, and so he should be racking up the sacks.
And that just argues his stat numbers. This guy is enormous, and he has 36 tackles. So why doesn't he have even 1 forced fumble? Tamba hali has 5!! No matter how good your surrounding cast is, he's had 36 tackle attempts to jar 1 ball loose, and hasn't done that.
Notice what Dunta Robinson had to say about how Faggins coming back helped him improve his play. Notice how when the Ravens lost one of their huge DTs Ray Lewis' game suffered. Football is a team sport. Who else on the Texans line would you double team? And remember, just when Mario settled in this foot injury set in.

Moreover, when rookies post big sack numbers, that is the exception. Folks like you would have been wanting to crucify Bruce Smith his first season in the NFL. Not very rookie posts double digit sacks their first season. It is too soon to jump to conclusions. Hold the criticism until this time next season, then you might have a case.

3) He's a rookie, give him time
I'm not sure if you noticed, but every player on that list is a rookie.

Here's how I see it: Maybe he's playing a little hurt, maybe the rest of the cast around him isn't the best, maybe he just needs more time. But the fact of the matter is we drafted Mario Williams because he was supposed to come in here and produce THIS YEAR.

One of the biggest knocks on some of the other guys we were looking at was they needed time to adjust to the NFL. Mario was supposed to make an INSTANT impact, and in my eye, he has failed. The fact that backup Dlineman on other teams with the same amount of NFL experience and the fact that every other 1st rounder is playing better leads me to believe that he has failed this year.
Maybe he'll prove me wrong in a year or two, but thats not the point of this. We didn't want to draft a project, and thats exactly what we got.
Again, do some research. I didn't excpect INSTANT fantasy stats from Mario but I did expect an instant impact, and from the games I have seen and from the comments from opposing coaches and players, he has provided that. We need real football analysis here. Not fantasy number comparisons. As someone earlier said, DL play goes beyond the box score. I suggest you let go of the fantasy stats and start thinking in terms of coaching stats (qb pressures, etc.). Folks screaming this "doesn't produce" mantra aren't looking past the ESPN box score. These same folks would never understand why a guy like Richard Seymour is so well regarded, considered one of the best DL in the game and has been the key player making the NE defense go (consider his multiple pro-bowls, etc.). Why? Because Seymour has never posted double digit fantasy sacks. I'm not saying mario will be a 6 sack a year guy because I actually think Mario will post more glamour stats for you folks than Seymour does, but I am moreso hoping that his ability and versatility will allow him to have an impact like Seymour.


Look and see how many top DL started of with 4,5,6 sacks their first season. This season doesn't tell us anything other than that Mario has potential. Hell, already teams treat him as our top DL. They scheme away from him, yet he still makes his presence known. Mario hasn't failed this year, but he hasn't been spectacular either. There have been flashes, but it hasn't been consistent. In short, he has played like a rookie.

I understand people are upset that ESPN, et al. don't fawn over Mario. I understand that Bush's sudden breaking through and Vince being Vince really makes the team look bad. But let's let this first year player, first year coach and first year management of this former 2-14 team get one more offseason in before we get to banging the gavels.

Of course, I know many folks are dead set on being critical no matter what. And on the internet, those are the folks most likely to post again and again and again. But i just wanted to represent for those of us who are taking a wait and see approach and just enjoying the game of football.

ImSoTexas
12-12-2006, 01:36 PM
So let me ask yall, if you had to do it all over again would you still draft Mario Williams over Vince or Reggie?

phan1
12-12-2006, 03:08 PM
I'm actually surprised that MW is unquestionably our best DLineman at this stage of the game. You've got Peek, Babin, Weaver, and Kalu. Not a great set of names by any means, but when you're a rookie who's the best out of these people, it says something.

Texan_Bill
12-12-2006, 03:19 PM
Here are some arguments I keep hearing thrown around:

1) Mario is injured, and is therefore producing less
This is probably a legitimate injury, but before I start cutting him some slack for it I have to ask myself, "If he's so injured, why is he still playing and praticing?" If he's so injruerd that he's not producing at a high level, he should be sitting.

I don't want to get in on this thrilling debate and don't know if someone has already addressed this issue, but here goes.

Plantar Fasciitis: It can, in extreme cases lead to worse injuries, however, in the case of Williams, they are saying that it won't get worse. There is now a surgery available in extreme cases, but its generally understood that rest is about the best cure... With the fact that it shouldn't get worse, and the fact that he is a rookie that can use the PT, coupled with the salary that a #1 pick receives, you bet your bottom $$$ thats why he is still playing... JMHO....

Kaiser Toro
12-12-2006, 04:01 PM
So let me ask yall, if you had to do it all over again would you still draft Mario Williams over Vince or Reggie?

The answer to your riddle goes back to picking up the option on Carr. Pick up option on Carr of course you take Mario if you cannot trade down. Do not pick up the option then it most likely would have betwen RB and VY, with my money going towards RB.

fhlh
12-12-2006, 04:41 PM
Here are some arguments I keep hearing thrown around:

1) Mario is injured, and is therefore producing less
This is probably a legitimate injury, but before I start cutting him some slack for it I have to ask myself, "If he's so injured, why is he still playing and praticing?" If he's so injruerd that he's not producing at a high level, he should be sitting



I'd imagine Mario playing with a bum wheel is better than whats sitting on the the bench.....

Wolf
12-12-2006, 06:05 PM
The answer to your riddle goes back to picking up the option on Carr. Pick up option on Carr of course you take Mario if you cannot trade down. Do not pick up the option then it most likely would have betwen RB and VY, with my money going towards RB.

brings up a thought, didn't we resign DD and extend Carr's contract before the draft?

And with N.O. signing Brees it kinda took any leverage off of a trade down (If I remember correctly)

Texan1
12-12-2006, 07:11 PM
I venture a guess that these players are not the players that the offense is keying on. I think that there is a high probability these are much better defenses over all. No excuses, I would really like him to be a standout player also.

Thats assuming, of course, defenses are keying on Mario - which they are not. They have to worry about Ryans alot more. Mario rarely gets double teamed and he is relatively ineffective (compared to the list in the orginal post). But he has a sore foot right? :(

He wasn't a great college player - what would make anyone think he would be a great pro?

johnboy
12-12-2006, 10:01 PM
Yeah I guess Mario sucks. And I guess so does Dwight Freeney.Its so easy to kill a defensive player if he doesn't put up big numbers, but the media doesn't say that every offensive scheme that plays Houston is to make sure they take Mario Williams out of the play. Oh, and another thing would you take Kiwanuka, Hali, Anderson, Tapp, or any other rookie defensive end for that matter over Mario? Didn't think so. And you better believe if Mario was on the Panthers or the Bears or Denver or on any other badass defensive squad he'd be killing it. Its not his fault the secondary can't cover a turtle, let alone long enough for Mario to get a shot at the QB. Thats like saying well why isn't Daunte Robinson not getting alot of INT's, well maybe because Mario and Daunte have specific jobs. Kill the quarterback and blanket the WR, and if the rest of the teams defense completely sucks why would any offensive cordinater run plays at Mario. So why don't you lay off. Your probably one of the fans whose still bitter about the whole Vince Young, Reggie Bush thing anyway. So get over it and move on.

How many offensive cordinaters do you know that are afraid of Super Mario probably about as many diffensive cordinaters that are afraid of Carr maybe one.(Jacksonville's) Mario's a first year & Carr's been a bust for three years.

Goldeagle
12-12-2006, 10:43 PM
Just for comparison sake, I thought I'd chart up a comparison of how Mario Williams is comparing to the rest of his rookie class. not only was he the top rated defensive prospect, but he was the #1 overall choice much to the dismay of fans of VY and RB. So here are the stats:

I only posted the stats of all the DEs through the 2nd round, and then includued some notables later on. A lot of the other 3rd-7th rounders aren't playing enough to count.

Mario Williams, DE Texans - 1st round 1st pick
27 solo tackles, 9 assisted tackles, 4.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints

Kamerion Wimbley, DE Browns - 1st round 13th pick
34 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 7.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints
(starting as an OLB this year)

Tamba Hali, DE Chiefs - 1st round 20th pick
38 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5 ff, 0 ints
(starting at DE this year)

Mathias Kiwanuke, DE Giants - 1st round 32nd pick
28 solo tackles, 6 assisted tackles, 4.0 sacks, 2 ff, 2 ints
(started as a backup DE this year)

Darryl Tapp, DE Seahawks - 2nd round 31st pick
12 solo tackles, 3 assisted tackles, 3.0 sacks, 1 ff, 1 int
(backs up G. Wistron this year at DE)

Elvis Dumervil, DE Broncos - 4th round, 29th pick
11 solo tackles, 1 assisted tackle, 7.0 sacks, 0 ff, 0 int
(backs up Ekuban at DE, only played in 10 games)

Mark Anderson, DE Bears - 5th round, 27th pick
17 solo tackles, 5 assisted tackles, 8.0 sacks, 3 ff, 0 int
(backs up Alex Brown at DE this year)


So hows that look to you guys? Not only is he by far the least productive in the first round, but there are 4th and 5th round backup rookie DEs who are out producing him, at least in the sack department.

I keep hearing that DEs take time to develop, but these guys sure don't seem to need it. For a 1st overall choice, he's got a lot of catching up to do.



You cant lie with stats.......or can you???

Fact of the matter is, MW has the talent to be a freak, its up to our coaches to bring it out of him.

(I was a Tamba Hali fan btw)

gtexan02
12-12-2006, 10:44 PM
we've heard that in houston a lot. All 1st round players have the talent to be great, the potential to be starters or stars, its just whetheer or not they have that something extra to actually make it.

swoldier
12-13-2006, 05:56 AM
Now how about you list which of these players are playing injured with plantar fasciitis. (If you have ever had it............which I have......Its not fun, pretty much let me slam your foot with a sledge and lets see how spunky you are) That will really be helpful as we compare these players as the year goes on........

Planter faciitis is no excuse, ive had to deal with it my entire Marine Corps enlistment from day one, but i dont get to whine about it. I dont get to make excuses i have a job to do and i do it. I also dont get paid nearly as much as he does. He also has been training for this almost his entire life he should be able to deal. There is a reason why he is still playing, because its not that serious of an injury if you can even call it an injury more or less a chronic disorder with the feet once you have it you will always have to deal with it whether it goes away one day it will be back sooner or later and hurt again. So please spare me the excuses there are none. He just isnt playing up to HIS HYPE as a DE and i would dare to say the other picks are ie. VY and RB.
Dont get me wrong i like the pick and i like him in a Texans uniform and i also think he will be a stud on our defense, but please excuses are the easy way out and if he keeps making excuses for his play instead of taking responsibility he will never really improve.

Kaiser Toro
12-13-2006, 07:26 AM
Planter faciitis is no excuse, ive had to deal with it my entire Marine Corps enlistment from day one, but i dont get to whine about it. I dont get to make excuses i have a job to do and i do it. I also dont get paid nearly as much as he does. He also has been training for this almost his entire life he should be able to deal. There is a reason why he is still playing, because its not that serious of an injury if you can even call it an injury more or less a chronic disorder with the feet once you have it you will always have to deal with it whether it goes away one day it will be back sooner or later and hurt again. So please spare me the excuses there are none. He just isnt playing up to HIS HYPE as a DE and i would dare to say the other picks are ie. VY and RB.
Dont get me wrong i like the pick and i like him in a Texans uniform and i also think he will be a stud on our defense, but please excuses are the easy way out and if he keeps making excuses for his play instead of taking responsibility he will never really improve.

Well at 6'7'', 300 lb+ it may have a little more impact on his foot than yours. There was no hype around him as we are continually reminded by "the others" every day, especially this week, and I would say that any hype played on the his board was from "the others" as well.

swoldier
12-13-2006, 07:37 AM
Well at 6'7'', 300 lb+ it may have a little more impact on his foot than yours. There was no hype around him as we are continually reminded by "the others" every day, especially this week, and I would say that any hype played on the his board was from "the others" as well.

Well 6'7 300 lb+ whatever its still an excuse and im pretty sure if they let him rest it a week it would be fine. Get some orthopedic insoles whatever it shouldnt be an issue its just an excuse plain and simple.Granted it does suck to be affected by this ailment but it's nothing that should be really affecting the way he plays after one to two+ weeks. So i say rubbish the guy just isnt as good as others his first year but i am pretty sure he will prove throughout his carrer that he is the MAN!, and we did well in choosing him #1 overall. I just cant wait for the Colts game when he earns a monstrous sack on Mr. Rocket Laser Arm himself. Heres to "Super Soul Snatching Mario" ending Peyton Mannings Carrer!!! I really hate that guy!!!

johnboy
12-13-2006, 08:32 PM
Against a TOTAL defense, you spread it out... run it both sides. If I were to run against the Texans, I would run it at Babin/Peek ANYTIME they are on the field. They are backed up by the great Morlon Greenwood.

Thats funny for years teams would run right at the best player on diff. They said they could block him easier.That must make Babin & Peek better them Super Mario.

El Amigo Invisible
12-13-2006, 08:36 PM
To think that we could have possibly beaten New England this week if Vince was the QB. I hope Mario plays big for us this week.

QB75
12-13-2006, 08:37 PM
Just for comparison sake, I thought I'd chart up a comparison of how Mario Williams is comparing to the rest of his rookie class. not only was he the top rated defensive prospect, but he was the #1 overall choice much to the dismay of fans of VY and RB. So here are the stats:

I only posted the stats of all the DEs through the 2nd round, and then includued some notables later on. A lot of the other 3rd-7th rounders aren't playing enough to count.

Mario Williams, DE Texans - 1st round 1st pick
27 solo tackles, 9 assisted tackles, 4.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints

Kamerion Wimbley, DE Browns - 1st round 13th pick
34 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 7.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints
(starting as an OLB this year)

Tamba Hali, DE Chiefs - 1st round 20th pick
38 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5 ff, 0 ints
(starting at DE this year)

Mathias Kiwanuke, DE Giants - 1st round 32nd pick
28 solo tackles, 6 assisted tackles, 4.0 sacks, 2 ff, 2 ints
(started as a backup DE this year)

Darryl Tapp, DE Seahawks - 2nd round 31st pick
12 solo tackles, 3 assisted tackles, 3.0 sacks, 1 ff, 1 int
(backs up G. Wistron this year at DE)

Elvis Dumervil, DE Broncos - 4th round, 29th pick
11 solo tackles, 1 assisted tackle, 7.0 sacks, 0 ff, 0 int
(backs up Ekuban at DE, only played in 10 games)

Mark Anderson, DE Bears - 5th round, 27th pick
17 solo tackles, 5 assisted tackles, 8.0 sacks, 3 ff, 0 int
(backs up Alex Brown at DE this year)


So hows that look to you guys? Not only is he by far the least productive in the first round, but there are 4th and 5th round backup rookie DEs who are out producing him, at least in the sack department.

I keep hearing that DEs take time to develop, but these guys sure don't seem to need it. For a 1st overall choice, he's got a lot of catching up to do.

How does it look? It looks fine, because your analysis is flawed.

Mr teX
12-13-2006, 09:04 PM
Here are some arguments I keep hearing thrown around:

1) Mario is injured, and is therefore producing less
This is probably a legitimate injury, but before I start cutting him some slack for it I have to ask myself, "If he's so injured, why is he still playing and praticing?" If he's so injruerd that he's not producing at a high level, he should be sitting

2) Mario has no supporting cast or Mario is not on a stout defense
I think this is a terrible excuse. If anything, with all the sacks the other guys on the bears get, its probably more difficult for a rookie to get in there and make the play. Mark Anderson is a backup with 9 sacks now. Mario is the cornerstone of this DL, and so he should be racking up the sacks.
And that just argues his stat numbers. This guy is enormous, and he has 36 tackles. So why doesn't he have even 1 forced fumble? Tamba hali has 5!! No matter how good your surrounding cast is, he's had 36 tackle attempts to jar 1 ball loose, and hasn't done that.

3) He's a rookie, give him time
I'm not sure if you noticed, but every player on that list is a rookie.

Here's how I see it: Maybe he's playing a little hurt, maybe the rest of the cast around him isn't the best, maybe he just needs more time. But the fact of the matter is we drafted Mario Williams because he was supposed to come in here and produce THIS YEAR.

One of the biggest knocks on some of the other guys we were looking at was they needed time to adjust to the NFL. Mario was supposed to make an INSTANT impact, and in my eye, he has failed. The fact that backup Dlineman on other teams with the same amount of NFL experience and the fact that every other 1st rounder is playing better leads me to believe that he has failed this year.

Maybe he'll prove me wrong in a year or two, but thats not the point of this. We didn't want to draft a project, and thats exactly what we got.

How is that a terrible excuse? Those other defenses actually get their opponents in 3rd & long situations, you know that thing that our offense is always in. When you can run up the middle & to the other side of the line on our defense, How are you to make an impact as an LDE when you're usually chasing from the backside? Plus, when you're down most of the time, your opponent is likely to run the ball more to run out the clock, limiting any sack opportunities you might get if they were in 3rd & long.

Furthermore give me 1 defensive player that came into the league on a dead last defensive squad the year before & posted huge numbers & turned around the defense in 1 year. If there is one, he likely was only going to be stopped by Kyrptonite.

bravesoul1999
12-13-2006, 09:06 PM
It took Reggie about 11 games to score from scrimage on a top 5 offense...sounds like a project to me.

actually reggie scored from scrimmage in the 9th game and won the 5th game. How many gms has Mario won?

gtexan02
12-13-2006, 09:07 PM
Um, how am I lying with those stats? Im showing all important defensive stats for Dl of every DL taken in the 1st round.

BigSaint8050
12-14-2006, 12:23 AM
It took Reggie about 11 games to score from scrimage on a top 5 offense...sounds like a project to me.

Reggie was an impact from day 1. Being an impact isn't all about scoring. How many critical 3rd down catches did Reggie had for the Saints prior to scoring. How many times were defensive players drawn to him on fake reverses. He is one of the biggest reason the Saints have the #1 offense in the NFL (besides Payton and Brees of course).

Like I said impact isn't only measured by how many times he has scored (though he does have 5 TD's in the last 2 games and 2 100+ recieving days in those games also). Also for everyone that is going to say he isn't an NFL runner, over the last 4 games he is averaging 4.5 YPC.

run-david-run
12-14-2006, 12:29 AM
actually reggie scored from scrimmage in the 9th game and won the 5th game. How many gms has Mario won?

If deflecting a game tying 2 point conversion pass counts as winning a game, then at least one.

run-david-run
12-14-2006, 12:33 AM
Um, how am I lying with those stats? Im showing all important defensive stats for Dl of every DL taken in the 1st round.

QB pressures are a lot more signficant then sacks. The last two seasons, the sack leader has had 16 sacks, one per game on average. Say about 25 pass attempts a game, a sack imapct 4% of all passing plays...not too great. Consistantly pressuring the QB, forcing him to throw the ball before he wants to and hitting him after the throw are much bigger factors in stopping an offense then one play which forces negative yards. Unfortunately, there is no effective way to measure pressures in a box score, meaning a DL's impact often is undervalued unless you watch the games.

run-david-run
12-14-2006, 12:34 AM
Reggie was an impact from day 1. Being an impact isn't all about scoring. How many critical 3rd down catches did Reggie had for the Saints prior to scoring. How many times were defensive players drawn to him on fake reverses. He is one of the biggest reason the Saints have the #1 offense in the NFL (besides Payton and Brees of course).

Like I said impact isn't only measured by how many times he has scored (though he does have 5 TD's in the last 2 games and 2 100+ recieving days in those games also). Also for everyone that is going to say he isn't an NFL runner, over the last 4 games he is averaging 4.5 YPC.

This is a post condeming Mario's impact through stats...if you cant see the corrolation between your argument for Bush and our defense of Mario...

SLO Texan
12-14-2006, 12:43 AM
Oops!!!
Well since I already started, I think Mario was coming along well untill his foot ailment. Next year will be the time when he will need to step it up and produce. Hopefully our overall D will be better so he is able to get loose more often.

Compared to the other DEs he does'nt have as many sacks but I doubt they affect the entire game as much as he does.

BigSaint8050
12-14-2006, 12:56 AM
This is a post condeming Mario's impact through stats...if you cant see the corrolation between your argument for Bush and our defense of Mario...

I am in no way saying Mario isn't an impact because of his stats. He isn't an impact because he isn't an impact (stats or not). He disapears more often than not, getting blocked by one guy (I have seen him get handled by TE's). Thats not what an impact defensive linemen does.

Maybe its the foot, I geuss we will see in the next year.

BigSaint8050
12-14-2006, 12:18 PM
With the exception of Wimbley and the Browns, all those players are on defenses that feature a bevy of studs. Mario doesn't have that luxury and has his two DT's out for the season as well...puts a ton of pressure on him...and he's got an injured foot and has been gutting it out. Doesn't change the fact that teams aren't running toward Mario.

Like I said, next year will be the tell.

When the Texans were sure to pick Bush and rumor was the Saints would select Williams I was hoping against it. Like I said he is a freak, but he doesn't play like it. Watch his college games, much like his NFL career to this point.

I am more than willing to admit when I am wrong, and come this time next year if there is a major improvement I will. But right now, he has given me no reason to change my mind up until this point. Only time will tell though.

bravesoul1999
12-14-2006, 12:40 PM
bush has learned the speed of the NFL and is learning to run upfield. As you can see in last few gms he has been a stud.

bravesoul1999
12-14-2006, 12:41 PM
We will see next year, as the New Orleans Saints will be coming to Reliant Stadium.

Do you think TExans fans will sell thier tickets to Saints fans next year so it can be a home game for us? Dallas "fans" were pathetic to sell 10000 tickets to Saints fans and give up the home field advantage

BigSaint8050
12-14-2006, 01:29 PM
Well honestly, Bush has had two good games so far so I'd hold off on calling him Jesus. Vince hasn't really put up a ton of stats yet his team wins but I'm not ready to crown him anything either. It's just WAAAAY too early to call anyone a bust or otherwise.

Personally, I think TEN needed Young. I think NOLA got a player who's going to be good for them and considering Deuce's injury history, served as a nice insurance policy too, and Houston needed help EVERYWHERE and Mario is the guy that works for them.


Bush has had 2 great games. He has had plenty of average to good games. He is the reason the Saints won the Tampa game, returning the punt for a TD. He has contributed 47 1st downs this year.

I agree that Tenn needed Young, but are you saying that Houston didn't? Are you saying that Houston couldn't of used a playmaker like Reggie? How exactly has Mario worked for the Texans? I have seen the games, he hasn't done much, not just stats wise.

BigSaint8050
12-14-2006, 02:04 PM
Houston was expecting their RB to have routine knee surgery and be ready to play this season. They gave the guy a big extension and gave Carr a big extension as well before draft day. It wouldn't have made any sense whatsoever to throw that kind of cash at backups. To say that Reggie is the reason for the Saints turnaround is doing a huge disservice the the real reason they're successful...Brees. New Orleans has had talent, just not at the QB position. Good coaching has been right up there for the Saints too. Bush's TD return with perfect blocking by everyone on his team did win that game. Good for Reggie.

Next time you watch the Texans play, count the number of times teams run the ball to Mario's side. It doesn't happen very often. He's young and raw, but has shown flashes of brilliance, for example...the game vs. the giants. Mario was a wild man. He and DeMeco are going to be a very nice foundation on defense for a long time.

I hope you are right about Mario. But the fact remains. He takes plays off, disapeers more than often and can be blocked most of the time with one guy. I know fans are fans and they want to stick up for their team (like most fans), but facts are facts. Young could have been used, Reggie could have been used. And come next years draft the Texans are still looking to fill holes at OT (D'Brick), QB (Young) and RB (Bush). One of which could have been filled last year.

Mr. White
12-14-2006, 02:10 PM
I hope you are right about Mario. But the fact remains. He takes plays off, disapeers more than often and can be blocked most of the time with one guy. I know fans are fans and they want to stick up for their team (like most fans), but facts are facts. Young could have been used, Reggie could have been used. And come next years draft the Texans are still looking to fill holes at OT (D'Brick), QB (Young) and RB (Bush). One of which could have been filled last year.

I'm not trying to jump into another draft debate, but the pass rush was a pretty big hole as well. He was the top rated defender on the draft board.

If you actually watch the Texans play and you watch Mario Williams, there's really not a whole lot to complain about. Most of us around here that do watch him think he's solid. There's more to football than stats.

jerek
12-14-2006, 02:12 PM
I hope you are right about Mario. But the fact remains. He takes plays off, disapeers more than often and can be blocked most of the time with one guy. I know fans are fans and they want to stick up for their team (like most fans), but facts are facts. Young could have been used, Reggie could have been used. And come next years draft the Texans are still looking to fill holes at OT (D'Brick), QB (Young) and RB (Bush). One of which could have been filled last year.

The taking plays off is total BS. Mario isn't double teamed every play but he is often chipped, has played through injury for most of the season, and every DL "can be blocked most of the time" with one guy. It happens, oh, I don't know, well over 80% of the time across the NFL, even in the case of your perennial greats.

Reggie's had a number of bad games and Mario's had a number of good games where he has made a very tangible difference outside of the stat column. It's okay to admit you are a Saints fan and are happy with your pick without talking ignorantly about ours.

run-david-run
12-14-2006, 03:00 PM
bush has learned the speed of the NFL and is learning to run upfield. As you can see in last few gms he has been a stud.

He still cant run the ball though. He is a great receiver, but from what I've seen of him running the ball, he will never be a feature back.

BigSaint8050
12-14-2006, 03:10 PM
He still cant run the ball though. He is a great receiver, but from what I've seen of him running the ball, he will never be a feature back.

Over the last 4 games he have averaged 4.5 YPC. Also, unlike most rookie backs the shares the carries with PRO-BOWL RB Deuce McAllister. The Saints give Reggie 5-8 carries a game, Deuce gets 20+.

run-david-run
12-14-2006, 03:21 PM
Over the last 4 games he have averaged 4.5 YPC. Also, unlike most rookie backs the shares the carries with PRO-BOWL RB Deuce McAllister. The Saints give Reggie 5-8 carries a game, Deuce gets 20+.

For one, Deuce was a Pro Bowler, but is no longer. Two, he has had multiple games with 15 carries or more and has not produced. 4.5 yards per carry is nothing when you only get 5 carries....you need an actual sample to create an accurate average...and he still dosnt have a run longer then 18 yards... but if he can get by as a receiver and "decoy" more power to him

Oh, and Reggie isnt the only one splitting carries- Maroney seems to be doing just fine, even DeAngelo Williams is doing better running thr ball

BigSaint8050
12-14-2006, 03:31 PM
The taking plays off is total BS. Mario isn't double teamed every play but he is often chipped, has played through injury for most of the season, and every DL "can be blocked most of the time" with one guy. It happens, oh, I don't know, well over 80% of the time across the NFL, even in the case of your perennial greats.

Reggie's had a number of bad games and Mario's had a number of good games where he has made a very tangible difference outside of the stat column. It's okay to admit you are a Saints fan and are happy with your pick without talking ignorantly about ours.


Are you sure I am the one talking ignorantly? Like I said, I hope Texan fans are right, I hope you found yourself a great player for years to come, but right now I don't see that happening.

BigSaint8050
12-14-2006, 03:37 PM
For one, Deuce was a Pro Bowler, but is no longer. Two, he has had multiple games with 15 carries or more and has not produced. 4.5 yards per carry is nothing when you only get 5 carries....you need an actual sample to create an accurate average...and he still dosnt have a run longer then 18 yards... but if he can get by as a receiver and "decoy" more power to him

Oh, and Reggie isnt the only one splitting carries- Maroney seems to be doing just fine, even DeAngelo Williams is doing better running thr ball

Multiple 15+ carries? Try 1 game with 15 carries (thats it). He also averaged 4.5 YPC in that game.

Also I know most of his stats are "recieving stats" but its not like he is running routes down the field. Most of his "recieving stats" come off screens, swing passes, shovel passes, which are glorified runs. Be in denial if you want to, but facts are facts.

Btw, even splitting carries this year (Reggie has 125 carries to Deuces 202) Deuce is on pace for over 1100 rushing yards. While not Pro-bowl numbers they are VERY impressive for back that until recently (last 3 games) had only 1 20+ carry day.

Mr. White
12-14-2006, 03:41 PM
This is a great thread. I haven't heard this stuff before.

Signed,

6 months ago

HOU-TEX
12-14-2006, 03:42 PM
This is a great thread. I haven't heard this stuff before.

Signed,

6 months ago

LOL! No doubt

BigSaint8050
12-14-2006, 03:51 PM
This is a great thread. I haven't heard this stuff before.

Signed,

6 months ago

Signed,

3 years from now this will still be the topic

Mr. White
12-14-2006, 03:55 PM
Signed,

3 years from now this will still be the topic

Are you still gonna be quoting Mario's scouting report 3 years from now?

The people around here that actually watch the Texans games already know what he's capable of.

You haven't said anything here we haven't heard before. Reggie Bush is a great weapon on your offense. Congratulations.

dantem
12-14-2006, 04:08 PM
It amazes me that the "experts" on this board keep pointing to Carr and Williams for bad play... Why are you blaming these two players instead of the guys who are constantly screwing up the game. Anybody got any comments about, "butterfingers" Johnson, or "never near the reciever" pete, or the 25 yard punt king? how about "I can't cover anyone" Robbinson. not one word about any of the "we get bowled over on every play" O-Line. I wish you guys would be more realistic, so there would be something legitimate posted. How about instead of trying to prove your point about Carr (which is such a dead horse its almost laghable when another Carr Sucks post comes out), analyze the actual play of the whole team.

Can anyone tell me how many times Johnson has dropped critical passes (even touchdown attempts) that hit him in the numbers this year? I bet most of you blamed Carr for those.

dbspi
12-14-2006, 04:10 PM
Not making any excuses but couple factors to consider first. Most of these other guys are playing with better DL support then Mario. Other factor to consider is his feet problem. He hasn't played healthy all season. After first couple of games I thought he came on strong prior to injury.

But still he should have had better STATS and more impact on defense. We will see double digit SACKS and more impacts on defense from him consistently for years to come.