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edo783
12-11-2006, 09:58 AM
First off I want to appoligise for what I suspect will be a longer post than my usuall 2-4 lines.

One of the things that were confirmed IMO at the press conference after the last Titanics game by both Kubiak and Carr is that what we seeing for an offense style is exactly what they have planned it to be. By that I don't mean bad, but rather the dink & dunk that we have all come to like and love so much. So for this tirade I will use PLAN as the emphasizing word.

Kubiak was asked about the fact that we don't throw longer passes and his reply was pretty much that it was because the protection wouldn't hold up long enough, so hence they have a PLAN to throw dink and dunk because of it.

Carr was asked would he want to throw long and he replied IIRC "Absolutly, but that isn't the game PLAN".

So what we have is a game plan that is all about dink and dunk because of the O-line not being a capable group.


Oline formation - If you look at other teams line splits they have a much wider spacing on the O-line than we do. I think it was Vinny, but might have been Coach Dent, but any way one of the guys that actually know what they are talking about, said we did that because if we have guys that aren't very good and if we want to protect better, then place them closere together. That way they don't have to be as good as others and still present some sort of a protective wall. That seems like a good idea and sort of worked however, it has had another consequence in that by doing it, you automatically make smaller running holes for the RBs as folks are packed together. Another consequense in the passing game is that the throwing lanes are small to non-exsistant because all the defensive linemen are all together and when the throw up their hands it makes for what has to look like an 8 ft tall wall with no holes. Stand about 3 feet from one of the 8ft walls in your house and imagine how you might try and trow over it. I think it started in the first J-Vill game, but it looks like the Defensive Coordinators book on the Texans is that, if by 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds you haven't reach the QB, start jumping in the air, as they are all buched together with few throwing lanes, that makes for the 8 ft wall thing. We all know that by 2 seconds they are right on top of Carr and that's why I suggested the 3 foot thing. Now, if you look at what other teams are doing with the wider splits, when the pass rush starts the defenders are much more spread out as they come in and there are lanes to throw through. IMO, it is this lack of throwing lanes, due to the close packed line protection scheme that is resulting in more balls getting batted down.

So, what are we left with:

1. A scheme and game PLAN based on a lack of quality O-line play that is extremily stilted. I hear some calling for Carr to check into a long ball play. What makes you think there are any long ball plays in the PLAN to check to? I highly doubt that there are any in the PLAN that is based on dink and dunk due to poor line play. Why would there be, if you can't protect in the first place. What we are seeingis EXACTLY what the game PLAN calls for. I don't like it, but I understand why.

This plan has to be very frustrating to the QB, WR and vertually everyone, but it is what we are stuck with until we have a line that can protect and operate at an NFL level. Sorry again for the long post. Actually had a couple of other thoughts, but this is starting to be War & Peace length.

2ToneBlue
12-11-2006, 10:14 AM
I think your O-Line played extremely well. I was wondering when we'd get a sack on Carr, but your line didn't let that happen like I would have expected. You're running game was great, the line blew open holes for Dayne, who then proceeded to bull our players over. Overall I thought they did a good job of keeping our team out of the backfield, picking up rushing yards and keeping Carr clean.

real
12-11-2006, 10:19 AM
The O-line isn't great, but like I've said all along...we are only playing with one guy who's been starting since day one....Everyone else is a second or third stringer....considering that we've played pretty well....

We haven't been stellar, but IMO, we haven't been all that poor either....

And no O-line is that bad to where you don't take ANY shots down field....


Don't believe the hype....

Honoring Earl 34
12-11-2006, 11:39 AM
I bet when Dayne was getting 5 yds a crack , a good play action pass would have allowed you to throw the ball long . Maybe we did do that and hit Dayne for 5yds .

Runner
12-11-2006, 12:59 PM
I bet when Dayne was getting 5 yds a crack , a good play action pass would have allowed you to throw the ball long . Maybe we did do that and hit Dayne for 5yds .

They did play action at one point that really stood out ot me. I haven't re-watched the game on TV yet (if I ever do) so I don't remember how often this occured. Anyway, I think it was in the 3rd quarter - Dayne had made about three good carries in a row anf then the Texans play actioned - Carr had a lot more time as the rush slowed because of the fake. I don't remember the result of the play - it may have been on a fairly long pass by Carr down the left sideline but I'm not sure.

phan1
12-11-2006, 04:39 PM
Make no mistake about it, the Oline played bad yesterday. Credit Carr for getting rid of the ball and not wanting to take the sack. In many games, he's been just satisfied with pulling the ball down and taking the sack. He played pretty decent yesterday with a very bad Oline.

HOU-TEX
12-11-2006, 04:42 PM
Make no mistake about it, the Oline played bad yesterday. Credit Carr for getting rid of the ball and not wanting to take the sack. In many games, he's been just satisfied with pulling the ball down and taking the sack. He played pretty decent yesterday with a very bad Oline.

I agree the Oline is mediocre at best. I disagree about yesterday. There were several plays yesterday where he had time to throw down field, he didn't.:)

brewhaus
12-11-2006, 04:42 PM
Make no mistake about it, the Oline played bad yesterday. Credit Carr for getting rid of the ball and not wanting to take the sack. In many games, he's been just satisfied with pulling the ball down and taking the sack. He played pretty decent yesterday with a very bad Oline.

I remember one play yesterday when he was scrambling to his right and actually high stepped over a tackler.......it was cool as s**t to see him moving like that. It just doesn't happen to often.

Goldeagle
12-11-2006, 04:44 PM
We've been asking for 5 years for a decent O-line, Carr or no Carr, you better get a decent O-line for whoever QBs the Texans in the future.

thunderkyss
12-11-2006, 04:52 PM
We've been asking for 5 years for a decent O-line, Carr or no Carr, you better get a decent O-line for whoever QBs the Texans in the future.

I'll bet money, that if VanPeebles starts tomorrow, Our OL will look lightyears better than what they did yesterday, a week ago, the week before that...... etc.. etc... etc.....

nunusguy
12-11-2006, 05:02 PM
We've been asking for 5 years for a decent O-line, Carr or no Carr, you better get a decent O-line for whoever QBs the Texans in the future.

Good point ! And we'll get that and then some in the offseason.
I remember last night on the Saints-Cowboys game, they said that when Peyton came in he replaced 24 (or was it 34 ?) players on the roster over there and they went from 3-13 last year to this year.
They will have whole-sale changes this offseason.

Runner
12-11-2006, 05:43 PM
Good point ! And we'll get that and then some in the offseason.
I remember last night on the Saints-Cowboys game, they said that when Peyton came in he replaced 24 (or was it 34 ?) players on the roster over there and they went from 3-13 last year to this year.
They will have whole-sale changes this offseason.

That's good - if we do a better job of defiining our needs this year. I don't want to see us skipping a pure center because he can't play guard or something equally silly.

nunusguy
12-11-2006, 05:47 PM
That's good - if we do a better job of defiining our needs this year. I don't want to see us skipping a pure center because he can't play guard or something equally silly.
Hey R, had we made that trade with the Jets we'd now have D'Brick &
Mangold in lieu of Mario. That's a pretty dang good foundation for a teams
OLine long-term.

TheOgre
12-11-2006, 06:04 PM
I really want Joe Thomas or Adrian Peterson. That is my top 2 for the Texans.

Runner
12-11-2006, 06:05 PM
Hey R, had we made that trade with the Jets we'd now have D'Brick &
Mangold in lieu of Mario. That's a pretty dang good foundation for a teams
OLine long-term.

I'd say so too, but what a long shot that we would have done it. Where did Mangold go in the draft?

threetoedpete
12-11-2006, 06:15 PM
I'd say so too, but what a long shot that we would have done it. Where did Mangold go in the draft?

Agreed: Great Blue Northern has that info on the front page, recap of '06. It was bottom of round one. What will be interesting is seeing which RB they choose. I gotta feeling a couple of the guys are going to slide.


Well I'm still in the desert eating my bugs and honey. Getting to the point that you have to move you're best offense player or tag him....I think the proof is in the pudding. The o-line is at critical mass. In the five slot it would be a miricle if Thomas fell to us. The experiment with the three three's, a five and the grey beard has been lacking. Only two things Kubes must have to run this offense. A tight end and the play action pass. With out the line he hasn't got the pap.

SESupergenius
12-11-2006, 06:22 PM
My problem is, and has been, that we needed to build a solid line. There is not a sole here that would state that our line is good enough to take us to the playoffs, especially in the winter months when the QB is really not a great deep passing threat.

So the delima is that Carr is done in Houston, whether you think he is good or not, fickle Houston fans have lost interest in him and no longer root for him to do good, but the o-line needs to be addressed again in the off-season and with a high pick we do we draft a QB, cut Carr and eat yet another high salary to add to the enormous ones we've already taken? Or do we draft an offensive lineman and maybe bring along a QB later in the draft? That's not even to say the Dunta needs to switch back over and let someone else be the better player. We need to draft an awesome CB too.

Delimas all around and it wasn't going to fixed in 1 off-season.

threetoedpete
12-11-2006, 06:23 PM
I really want Joe Thomas or Adrian Peterson. That is my top 2 for the Texans.

Everybody I've seen has him gone by the third pick.
We can't lose enough to get Thomas.



So the 64 million dollar question I have with two top OLT prospects on the board...Long and Baker...do we get this damned thing finally fixed this year...or or we going to take another skill guy who by himself won't do a good GD thing for this team in '07 ? Can I have my first round OLT prospect this year please ?