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wwffan99tx
12-11-2006, 09:23 AM
Let me start this by saying I am not a Carr hater. I have supported him his entire career with the Texans. But this morning on 610 he was asked about taking a knee with 53 seconds left in the game. He said Kubiak asked him what he thought and he responded with "It's up to you coach." Then he proceeded to ramble on that the Titans were getting a good rush all day and if he dropped back he would be on the goal line and blah, blah, blah. This pissed me off. Would VY or any other great QB have that attitude? No, they would WANT the ball and take a chance to win the game. I'm through with Carr now. He is a loser and always will be. Kubiak can't make him have heart.

gtexan02
12-11-2006, 09:26 AM
I don't know who is to blame, but when you haven't turned the ball over all day, with 1 minute left in the 4th and an opportunity to win (I don't care where you are starting from), you at least try.

Playing with that much fear, playing not to lose, is the best way to ensure a loss.

Runner
12-11-2006, 09:28 AM
I was just glad he didn't take a knee in the end zone.

real
12-11-2006, 09:29 AM
If Carr said that then he's a loser....

I can understand a coach making that decision...But not my QB....

Hulk75
12-11-2006, 09:29 AM
Let me start this by saying I am not a Carr hater. I have supported him his entire career with the Texans. But this morning on 610 he was asked about taking a knee with 53 seconds left in the game. He said Kubiak asked him what he thought and he responded with "It's up to you coach." Then he proceeded to ramble on that the Titans were getting a good rush all day and if he dropped back he would be on the goal line and blah, blah, blah. This pissed me off. Would VY or any other great QB have that attitude? No, they would WANT the ball and take a chance to win the game. I'm through with Carr now. He is a loser and always will be. Kubiak can't make him have heart.

O my good lord gosh!!!

Football IQ runs strong in your family does it not, lets go 88 yards with no protection like there was all day and maybe get sacked or have a ball tipped and picked, lets throw it to Dre and trust him O wait he already dropped 2 balls that day I am sure we can trust him to come down with one, I could go on but I am sure I would just loose you...........

I am not a Carr hater but I think he is a looser? Who are you trying to fool with a comment like that.

Lets just say more bad things could have happened to you then good at that point.

wwffan99tx
12-11-2006, 09:32 AM
O my good lord gosh!!!

Football IQ runs strong in your family does it not, lets go 88 yards with no protection like there was all day and maybe get sacked or have a ball tipped and picked, lets throw it to Dre and trust him O wait he already dropped 2 balls that day I am sure we can trust him to come down with one, I could go on but I am sure I would just loose you...........

I am not a Carr hater but I think he is a looser? Who are you trying to fool with a comment like that.

Lets just say more bad things could have happened to you then good at that point.


Since you are so intelligent, you probably already know this...... LOSE is spelled with 1 O, not 2.

gtexan02
12-11-2006, 09:32 AM
He's a loser, and I finally see it now. I had so much hope for this guy, the face of the franchise and all that.

He's a loser who is comfortable losing

Silver Oak
12-11-2006, 09:33 AM
And what if Carr had been sacked in the end zone? Would the same folks have defended the attempt to score?

I doubt it.

They had a 1 point lead at that point and it made good sense to take the knee...IMO.

Hulk75
12-11-2006, 09:33 AM
Since you are so intelligent, you probably already know this...... LOSE is spelled with 1 O, not 2.

Still does not chaange whhat II saaaid doees ittt!

DRIFTAWAY
12-11-2006, 09:34 AM
we need a new qb.. one whose not afraid to step up and take chances.. I can't imagine any qb not being eager to go for a win with the game tied and 50 seconds still left. I was watching the cowboys game( even though that game turned out to be the massacre of texas stadium) and even before the game turned into a rout, i remember it was 4th and 8 and Romo started signaling to Parcells he wanted to go for it. That's the attitude we need, that's the attitude of a winner and a leader. And David Carr is neither a winner or a leader.

real
12-11-2006, 09:34 AM
Football IQ runs strong in your family does it not, lets go 88 yards with no protection like there was all day and maybe get sacked or have a ball tipped and picked, lets throw it to Dre and trust him O wait he already dropped 2 balls that day I am sure we can trust him to come down with one, I could go on but I am sure I would just loose you...........


I don't know of a single QB with any kind of fire in his belly that would have said no thank you to an opprotunity to drive his team to get into position to win...And I don't know about the 88 yard thing...all we needed was a field goal....

If David Carr said no thanks to that, then he didn't have faith in himself or the team...Had I been one of his offensive lineman, I would have looked at him like WTF did he just say ? I can understand Kubiak wanting to be conservative, but as a player for you to not want an opprotunity like that is pretty weak, lame, and sorry....JMO

Sportsfan
12-11-2006, 09:34 AM
I agree, i want a quarterback with a champion's mentality, Carr does not have that from what i've seen. He's a good guy and a good athlete but he just doesn't have the intangibles like a Peyton Manning or Brett Favre has.

I hope next year Sage is back and given a chance at the starting job. I've seen a few interviews w/coaches and other players that say Sage is a true leader and players gravitate toward him b/c of his competitiveness and field general-type qualities.
If not Sage, i hope we can get someone else in here like maybe a Jeff Garcia, or Jake Plummer even. Mabye even Culpepper if he's booted out of Miami since the Piano-man Mr. Harrington seems to have the controls now.

Hulk75
12-11-2006, 09:35 AM
And what if Carr had been sacked in the end zone? Would the same folks have defended the attempt to score?

I doubt it.

They had a 1 point lead at that point and it made good sense to take the knee...IMO.

"No we should have went deep 3 times":tease: :tease:

Your right taking a knee was the right SMART call.

texan's blue
12-11-2006, 09:36 AM
It would've been nice to see them go out with their guns blazing... you had to guess though that if the Titans got the ball first in overtime they had a really good chance at scoring.

Hulk75
12-11-2006, 09:38 AM
I don't know of a single QB with any kind of fire in his belly that would have said no thank you to an opprotunity to drive his team to get into position to win...And I don't know about the 88 yard thing...all we needed was a field goal....

If David Carr said no thanks to that, then he didn't have faith in himself or the team...Had I been one of his offensive lineman, I would have looked at him like WTF did he just say ? I can understand Kubiak wanting to be conservative, but as a player for you to not want an opprotunity like that is pretty weak, lame, and sorry....JMO

And the story builds, if you would really like to know, Kubiak said at his presser yesterday after the game that it was his call, so I guess we can just argue this now.

real
12-11-2006, 09:38 AM
And what if Carr had been sacked in the end zone? Would the same folks have defended the attempt to score?

I doubt it.

They had a 1 point lead at that point and it made good sense to take the knee...IMO.

The game was tied first off....

And yes.....I would have still supported the decision....

This comment makes no sense, because the only people who would have been upset afterward had he gotten sacked would have been the people that didn't want him to go for it in the first place....not the people who wanted them to try to get into field goal range to begin with...

wwffan99tx
12-11-2006, 09:39 AM
Still does not chaange whhat II saaaid doees ittt!


Actually I would rather they lost while TRYING to win than to give up and let VY punk them the way he did.

Runner
12-11-2006, 09:39 AM
And the story builds, if you would really like to know, Kubiak said at his presser yesterday after the game that it was his call, so I guess we can just argue this now.

Of course it was, but Carr did say basically what was quoted on his interview too.

Malloy
12-11-2006, 09:39 AM
This is my view on this whole thing.

Carr has most of the abilities needed to play QB, he can run, he can throw, he's in very good shape.

What he lasks, and what this radio interview somewhat acknowledges is that he is not a very good leader. For me a good leader is someone who makes a decision and acts upon it, regardless of whether or not it results in a success. A good leader is one that acts, regardless of the outcome; A bad leader is one that does not act.

To me this is Carr's flaw, he does not act, he does not make a decision. I know there are many other factors to why he has not had too much success, coaches, playcalling, offensive line, running game. But even considering all of these things, I still see a Carr afraid, unable or incapable of acting.

real
12-11-2006, 09:40 AM
And the story builds, if you would really like to know, Kubiak said at his presser yesterday after the game that it was his call, so I guess we can just argue this now.


Well If you look back at my post post, I said IF Carr said that....

and IF Carr said that he is weak minded...

Hulk75
12-11-2006, 09:41 AM
Well If you look back at my post post, I said IF Carr said that....

and IF Carr said that he is weak minded...

Good, IFs, so lets end it.

real
12-11-2006, 09:41 AM
Of course it was, but Carr did say basically what was quoted on his interview too.

Well that confirms it....

We have a weak minded QB....

Tale Gator
12-11-2006, 09:42 AM
53 seconds is an eternity to march down the field and attempt a field goal/ etc. Kubiak has zero faith in Carr.

DRIFTAWAY
12-11-2006, 09:45 AM
And the story builds, if you would really like to know, Kubiak said at his presser yesterday after the game that it was his call, so I guess we can just argue this now.

Well its not like he's going to come out at the end of the day and say " David didn't seem too thrilled to go for it." When Kubiak asked carr what he wanted to do, 99.99% of all quarterbacks will say lets go for it, and 100% of all coaches would have redeemed that wish. But as soon as Carr says its up to you, Kubiak realized he's not 100% confident.

OzzO
12-11-2006, 09:45 AM
I didn't get a chance to hear that part of the interview (maybe it was when I took my kids in to school) - but interesting as quite POSSIBLY Kubiak was checking what the response would be from his QB when put in that scenario, if so - I don't think Carr passed the "pop quiz". Even to say, "coach, maybe kneel it for now and come out after the half with guns blazin" vs "it's up to you" response.

Also, not a verbatim - but Carr also mentioned that this loss sucked because he gave a little more this one to try and win... or something along those lines. It struck me odd because should he give a little more each game, not just one?

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 09:46 AM
And some of you are surprised that the emperor has no clothes? Carr has always been garbage and will continue to be so.

Can we finally end all this and just get rid of the bum? Can we finally be done with the VY v David Carr debate? I hope so because there is no debate

gwallaia
12-11-2006, 09:46 AM
Carr does not have faith in himself.

regalbeagle
12-11-2006, 09:47 AM
I know what you mean. This morning when I came in to work, everyone knows I'm the biggest Texans fan in the office.

They put a brown paper bag on my desk to wear over my head. On the bag it says: "Embarrased Texans Fan".

Guys, it's time for Carr to go.

Meloy
12-11-2006, 09:49 AM
No one is mentioning how weak and spineless the coach that MADE the call is! He had absolutely no faith in his Oline or his running backs or the tight ends or the wide receivers. Fair is fair, yet you are whining about a QB that has been blasted all seaon and most of last for not making corrects calls. So he defers to his coach? I do not understand what the H--- you guys want from Carr. Where would he have stood with Kubes if he had argued and the ball was lost for a TD or even possession leading to a field goal?

IMO, the right call was made. Kubes thought his defense could stop the Titans in OT. The defense made the same mistake that other d's have on the last play. They blitz Young whomade made them sorry. Uh.. anyone seen that before?

Lucky
12-11-2006, 09:51 AM
Kubiak can't make him have heart.
At one point David Carr had heart. Now, he doesn't look like he wants to be out there. Honoring Earl 34 said a while back that Carr had turned into Ralph Sampson. Sad, but I think he's right.

Last offseason wasn't enough. We need more bloodshed. It starts with David. I don't want the new QB burdened with the o-line dregs of McKinney, Wiegert, & Weary. Glenn Earl must go. Morlon Greenwood, too. Brown & Stanley...out of here.

I'm about to say something that will get me flamed. The Texans should listen to trade offers for Andre Johnson. Yeah, he's a tremendous athlete. And he puts up numbers. But, AJ has poor instincts for the game. AJ is worth more now than at any point in the future because he still has 2 years remaining on his rookie contract. If the Texans can turn Johnson into 2 or 3 good young players via the draft, they should do it. I get the feeling that Andre doesn't want to be here, anyway.

real
12-11-2006, 09:54 AM
I'm about to say something that will get me flamed. The Texans should listen to trade offers for Andre Johnson. Yeah, he's a tremendous athlete. And he puts up numbers. But, AJ has poor instincts for the game. AJ is worth more now than at any point in the future because he still has 2 years remaining on his rookie contract. If the Texans can turn Johnson into 2 or 3 good young players via the draft, they should do it. I get the feeling that Andre doesn't want to be here, anyway.

Honestly I think I was afraid to admit this to myself....But IMO, besides his measurables, AJ is not a great reciever....He would be o.k if we didn't have his Dad on the other side of him, but we have two of the same recievers....Not much quickness out there....

Malloy
12-11-2006, 09:56 AM
I'm about to say something that will get me flamed. The Texans should listen to trade offers for Andre Johnson. Yeah, he's a tremendous athlete. And he puts up numbers. But, AJ has poor instincts for the game. AJ is worth more now than at any point in the future because he still has 2 years remaining on his rookie contract. If the Texans can turn Johnson into 2 or 3 good young players via the draft, they should do it. I get the feeling that Andre doesn't want to be here, anyway.

Interesting actually. I am sure that such a trade would benefit the team overall. Who knows, if we're lucky we might find our very own Colston(sp?) next draft :)

texan's blue
12-11-2006, 09:56 AM
I didn't get a chance to hear that part of the interview (maybe it was when I took my kids in to school) - but interesting as quite POSSIBLY Kubiak was checking what the response would be from his QB when put in that scenario, if so - I don't think Carr passed the "pop quiz". Even to say, "coach, maybe kneel it for now and come out after the half with guns blazin" vs "it's up to you" response.

Also, not a verbatim - but Carr also mentioned that this loss sucked because he gave a little more this one to try and win... or something along those lines. It struck me odd because should he give a little more each game, not just one?

Yeah... he's not the brightest bulb in the box... bahaa... He's a good QB but something isn't right... either he isn't very bright or his confidence is shot... either way the guy is broken. Comments like that make me think that it might be a little bit of both..... I think Kubes is definitely testing him now and he's failing miserably...

the wonger need food
12-11-2006, 09:58 AM
David Carr is a loser and a coward. Why is there still an argument over this guy? He proves it week after week after week...

nunusguy
12-11-2006, 09:58 AM
53 seconds is an eternity to march down the field and attempt a field goal/ etc. Kubiak has zero faith in Carr.
There was no timeouts. This was the correct call. It would have been the correct call if Elway in his prime was our QB. You are at home, you take your chances in OT. Had we been 20 or 30 yards farther up the field and/or had a single timeout, yea. But not when you are inside your own 10 and no TOs &
only 50 seconds.
And the blitz of VY was the correct call. And if you don't like that, then you're being critical of the Texans being too agressive. If the blitz is successful, then the Titans are out of FG range.
The call I didn't get was throwing down the field to Daniels on 2nd and 6, and
after the incompletion running Dayne again to try to get 6 for the first ? You
gotta pass when its 3rd and you need 6 !

Ole Miss Texan
12-11-2006, 10:00 AM
I have supported Carr for a while now and think that he's done what not many other Qb's can do, which is good for us. And that is be tough. With as many times as he's been sacked...and hit..hard. I'm surprised he still wants to play here. maybe he doesn't think he can start anywhere else but i think he's a good qb. maybe not the right one for this team though.

With that said...he isn't getting the job done like everyone else is saying. I like the leadership qualities VY has shown and his ability to win in the nfl. I didn't expect it to come like it has. I don't want to hear all the VY homers saying we knew he would he's a winner, he gonna be the best. That's a ridiculous comment. You can see the wins he had while at UT..his record and that's impressive but the nfl is completely agree and you can't be 100% sure thats going to carry over (you can argue the same for mario though). I see that VY is the real deal after watching half a season of starts for him and I'm a beilever.

Back on point, new qb and it can't be vince like everyone wants..that's over and done with. we were never going to go to the playoffs this year (all thoughs that thought we were, were setting themselves up for this disappointment). next year we probably won't either. I see carr being here next year, maybe sage playing some, but I don't want to spend a lot of money on a new QB coming in if he's not the long term solution, we don't need a great interim guy.

I'm waiting for the then QB we draft or whoever that we groom and becomes the winner this franchise desperately needs. I don't see us drafting Brady Quinn and he won't even fall to us but I'm using him as an example. If we draft a guy in the 1st with all this hype..it's going to be unfair to him. Carr-homers will be mad. Vince-homers will be even more pissed off. Ok carr is gone but now for the rest of this guys career...or 5 years or so in houston..he's going to be looked at hard and unfairly because we passed vince and that VY would have been better. this #1 draft pick will haunt us on many levels.

That is why if we let sage play, carr, or bring in garcia or whatever that's fine with me. I'm not expecting us to do much for another 2 years and want us to build this as best we can so a great qb and step in and perform and not have to go through the hard times our o-line still sucking and all. don't be mad at me for settling for mediocrity because i don't. i'm realistic and want nothing more than to have a perrenial playoff contender franchise..just no quick fixing. Vince young can't be here anymore..........unfortunately.

real
12-11-2006, 10:02 AM
There was no timeouts. This was the correct call. It would have been the correct call if Elway in his prime was our QB. You are at home, you take your chances in OT. Had we been 20 or 30 yards farther up the field and/or had a single timeout, yea. But not when you are inside your own 10 and no TOs &
only 50 seconds.


You missed the point of this thread....

It's not whether or not the call was correct....

It's the fact that our quaterback was too cowardly to want the chance to go for it....

Honestly....DO you think there is a QB in the leauge that would not have wanted to go for it with 50+ seconds left in the game? With a chance to be a hero ? I can understand the coach pulling back on the reigns, but as the QB of your team, to be given the choice and to shy away from that is nothing short of cowardly....period

BigWig
12-11-2006, 10:03 AM
I was done with him when he took a knee. I am not a hater just want a leader, and he is not that. I am done with Carr, sorry but thats how I feel.

old football fan
12-11-2006, 10:04 AM
I think a change at QB would do both the Texans and David Carr a world of good. Look at Joey Harrington now that he is away from the Lions. We are better than the Lions of course. I like Carr and think he is a good QB but a change of teams is needed for him, the Texans and all of the fans.

real
12-11-2006, 10:06 AM
By Carr saying that he didn't want to go for it tells me that he was scared...

Scared to make a mistake...scared to screw up....He didn't want that pressure on himself...He'd rather take it into overtime, and put the pressure on the rest of the team to make a play instead of wanting to put the team on his back and do something great for a chance....

Why would you not want the chance to win it right then and there, when you know that if you go into overtime it's sudden death....

DAVID CARR WOULD RATHER PUT HIS FAITH IN A COIN TOSS THAN HIMSELF....

Scottyboy
12-11-2006, 10:11 AM
Wow how can people really log on here, and argue that David Carr is good?
Amazing. :lightbulb: :gun:

the wonger need food
12-11-2006, 10:11 AM
I really disagree. David kept pace with Vince all day, got the score tied and we had a shot at victory with overtime. Backed up in our own endzone could have handed them the 6 points long before Vince got them when they won the toss. Blame whomever lost the coint toss. Maybe if we had it first, that would be our W.

If Kubiak didn't want him to take the knee, Carr would have been handed his own ass.

David kept pace with Vince? Which game were you watching? How many passes over 10 yards did he complete the entire game? How many crucial 3rd downs did Carr pick up with his arm or legs?

Carr would have been handed his arse, that is correct. Because he is not a playmaker and makes the mistakes of a rookie after 5 season. 2 forward pass penalties in the same half? He has to be the dumbest QB in the NFL on top of everything else. What was his wonderlich score anyway?

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 10:13 AM
I know what you mean. This morning when I came in to work, everyone knows I'm the biggest Texans fan in the office.

They put a brown paper bag on my desk to wear over my head. On the bag it says: "Embarrased Texans Fan".

Guys, it's time for Carr to go.

dude, that sucks. I am sorry to hear that. screw them though, that is lame to do to a co-worker after a tough loss by home team

Corrosion
12-11-2006, 10:16 AM
53 seconds is an eternity to march down the field and attempt a field goal/ etc. Kubiak has zero faith in Carr.

I wonder if Carr has any faith in Carr ?:bag:


So there were 53 seconds with no time outs and 93 yards to the end-zone .... Not 88, they were on the seven not the twelve . To realisticly be in field goal range the Texans would need to have moved the ball somewhere in the nieghborhood of 58 yards . That would have given them a 52 yard field goal attempt .

I would have liked to see them take at least one shot at moving down the field and if they had an in-completion or penalty then take the knee . If the result of the first attempt is a success then you have to re-evaluate your position , maybe take two downs and if those are failed attempts then take the knee .


The easiest way to fail is not to try ....:ok:

The question of how much faith Kubiak still has in Carr was answered last Sunday in the second half against the raiders ...... how many pass attempts did he have in the fourth quarter ?

DRIFTAWAY
12-11-2006, 10:17 AM
in his first season, Vince is already in a whole new league. They beat us twice, the colts and giants back to back( those two were like preseason super bowl predictions,) and has the nearly at .500. The guy is simply a winner. David Carr is simply not. These past two weeks have showed more then ever that we made the wrong choice in the last draft. With Young we don't see these little 2 yard shovel passes, and with Reggie Bush, the 2 yard shovel passes turn into nice 20 yard gains, so either way we would have been good to go.

TransplantTexan1
12-11-2006, 10:21 AM
The coach is responsible for managing the game in that situation but the quarterback has to have the competitive fire in his belly that tells him, "Give me a chance, at least one chance, to make a play down field."

While on the strategic side (the coach's side), it was more prudent to be safe with the ball, from a competitive side (the player's side) you'd like to see the player tell the coach that he at least wants a chance.

nunusguy
12-11-2006, 10:22 AM
You missed the point of this thread....
It's not whether or not the call was correct....
It's the fact that our quaterback was too cowardly to want the chance to go for it....
Honestly....DO you think there is a QB in the leauge that would not have wanted to go for it with 50+ seconds left in the game? With a chance to be a hero ? I can understand the coach pulling back on the reigns, but as the QB of your team, to be given the choice and to shy away from that is nothing short of cowardly....period
You pick and choose your chances, you be selective.
The scenario with Carr inside his own 10, no TOs, and 50 seconds left in reg is 180 degrees from the scenario where Young would be on the Texans 39 with several minutes of OT left.
Carr didn't win it and VY did, but the situations they were in to have an opportunity to do so at the end were totally different.
But its time to let Carr go elsewhere, because as my wife says the city has rejected him. And I know even that's no easy task because of the cap
situation with him.

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 10:24 AM
I really disagree. David kept pace with Vince all day, got the score tied and we had a shot at victory with overtime. Backed up in our own endzone could have handed them the 6 points long before Vince got them when they won the toss. Blame whomever lost the coint toss. Maybe if we had it first, that would be our W.

If Kubiak didn't want him to take the knee, Carr would have been handed his own ass.

clueless homer sentiment....luckily this kind of attitude is starting to be less of the norm. Carr had his shot to win the game. Both he and Kubiak were simply happy tying the game. Then the defense steps up and stops VY and we kneel the ball with 50 seconds left? Do Kubiak and Carr know the rules for Overtime in the NFL? Do they know that they are playing against an inspired QB who would love nothing more than to rip the heart out of the organization that passed on him?

Can you imagine the Texans locker room right about now? They probably cant look at David with a straight face.....the whole organization should be embarassed and people need to be held accountable for this...namely Kubiak and Carr. Get rid of both the bums and lets start something new next year. Aggies are too insecure and have an inferiority complex towards anything Longhorn. Thus they cant make honest and objective decisions without letting stupid college allegiances enter the picture. The fact that the Texans passed on Vince Young for an underachieving and ailing DE is a complete joke. The fact that they picked up a 3 year option for that garbage named Carr is reason alone to kick Kubiak to the curb. Until they get rid of Carr it is a complete exercise in futility and self humiliation being a Texans fan.

Oh and to all the haters, Young showed a lot of class in his post-game interview. He could have thrown Carr, Kubiak, and the organization under his bus. He threw support behind Mario and also noted that the Titans are actually the team he grew up following and supporting....oh and Reliant Stadium IS VY's house...period end of story

real
12-11-2006, 10:28 AM
You pick and choose your chances, you be selective.
The scenario with Carr inside his own 10, no TOs, and 50 seconds left in reg is 180 degrees from the scenario where Young would be on the Texans 39 with several minutes of OT left.
Carr didn't win it and VY did, but the situations they were in to have an opportunity to do so at the end were totally different.
But its time to let Carr go elsewhere, because as my wife says the city has rejected him. And I know even that's no easy task because of the cap
situation with him.

Forget the situation....The situation doesn't matter....

The point is that someone needs to show this cowardly QB to the yellow brick road so he can see the wizard of OZ and get some courage....

HE rejected the chance to win the game and put his faith in a coin toss....

The game was in his hands at that point....He could have decided the outcome....but instead he chose to let it go to overtime and see if his defense could hold 'em....Name a starting QB in the leauge that would have rejected that opprotunity....Most QB's live for that moment, and our QB rejected it....what?!.....To me this is the most absurd thing I've ever heard....like I said....I can understand the coach making that choice...but if he asked Carr and Carr said no thanks, that tells me a lot about him as a football player at this point....

Mr. White
12-11-2006, 10:39 AM
Forget the situation....The situation doesn't matter....

The point is that someone needs to show this cowardly QB to the yellow brick road so he can see the wizard of OZ and get some courage....

HE rejected the chance to win the game and put his faith in a coin toss....

The game was in his hands at that point....He could have decided the outcome....but instead he chose to let it go to overtime and see if his defense could hold 'em....Name a starting QB in the leauge that would have rejected that opprotunity....Most QB's live for that moment, and our QB rejected it....what?!.....To me this is the most absurd thing I've ever heard....like I said....I can understand the coach making that choice...but if he asked Carr and Carr said no thanks, that tells me a lot about him as a football player at this point....


I couldn't agree more. Any QB that has a pulse is gonna fight for the chance to go for the win with 1 minute left to go.

If Carr thought that he could do it, he would be so pissed off right now that he wouldn't even talk to the press after the game.

Hervoyel
12-11-2006, 10:42 AM
It would've been nice to see them go out with their guns blazing...


That about sums it up for me. "It would've been nice to see them go out with their guns blazing" is what I too would like to see.

It would be a novel experience to see the Texans taking a chance for a change instead of protecting a 1 point lead in the third quarter or taking a knee when there's time enough to win a game instead of just taking it to overtime.

In 2002 I could accept the "Keep it close and win it in the fourth quarter" mentality that the team had. Hey I was happy on those days when we could keep it close. In 2006 I don't want to see that kind of strategy. Nobody is stupid enough to think that Gary Kubiak is going to be shown the door if something goes wrong and the Texans don't drive down to kick the winning field goal.

In the end the result was no different. The Texans lost and went out with a wimper instead of a roar.

Vinny
12-11-2006, 10:43 AM
You pick and choose your chances, you be selective.
The scenario with Carr inside his own 10, no TOs, and 50 seconds left in reg is 180 degrees from the scenario where Young would be on the Texans 39 with several minutes of OT left.
Carr didn't win it and VY did, but the situations they were in to have an opportunity to do so at the end were totally different.
But its time to let Carr go elsewhere, because as my wife says the city has rejected him. And I know even that's no easy task because of the cap
situation with him.
I find it amazing that even the fans get into losing football around here too...lets face it, we are a 4 win team going into week 15 in the NFL, in a year where we need to evaluate our QB and we take a knee with a min left needing a field goal? Someone please tell me what the heck we had to lose by putting Carr in a position to do something dramatic or carry this team on his 'big arm'? How the heck do you evaluate your QB when you take a knee? You can't. We took the knee, cut down on the excuses and meekly laid down in the fetal position.

pitiful

canadiantexan
12-11-2006, 10:45 AM
By Carr saying that he didn't want to go for it tells me that he was scared...

Scared to make a mistake...scared to screw up....He didn't want that pressure on himself...He'd rather take it into overtime, and put the pressure on the rest of the team to make a play instead of wanting to put the team on his back and do something great for a chance....

Why would you not want the chance to win it right then and there, when you know that if you go into overtime it's sudden death....

DAVID CARR WOULD RATHER PUT HIS FAITH IN A COIN TOSS THAN HIMSELF....


I think that with only one minute left to go along with zero timeouts every single person in that stadium knew that in order for us to put ourselves into position for even a field goal starting from our own 6-7 yardline we would have to pass almost exclusively. Jeff Fisher's boys would have their ears pinned back just coming after our QB.
Now having said that our patch work O-Line has not been able to protect our QB even in regular(not obviously passing) situations, so how could you as a coach ask them to try to do it with the Titans knowing thats what we are doing. I just don't think that's very smart to do.
If we throw the ball there trying to make something happen we'll make something happen alright something bad is going to happen. Pick your poisin sack,fumble,interception maybe even a saftey(would'nt that be a fun new way to lose a game).
Making the call to take a kneel was the right play when you consider all of the things we had going against us in that situation and yes one of those things going against us in that situation may very well be David Carr(notice I used our"QB"above) but I don't see going for the win there with our line no matter who the QB is....well maybe a few exceptions.

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 10:45 AM
I find it amazing that even the fans get into losing football around here too...lets face it, we are a 4 win team going into week 15 in the NFL, in a year where we need to evaluate our QB and we take a knee with a min left needing a field goal? Someone please tell me what the heck we had to lose by putting Carr in a position to do something dramatic or carry this team on his 'big arm'? How the heck do you evaluate your QB when you take a knee? You can't. We took the knee, cut down on the excuses and meekly laid down in the fetal position.

pitiful

only pitiful? embarassing and pathetic as well....but this is what you get when you dont trust the garbage you have playing QB for ya

HOU-TEX
12-11-2006, 10:47 AM
By Carr saying that he didn't want to go for it tells me that he was scared...

Scared to make a mistake...scared to screw up....He didn't want that pressure on himself...He'd rather take it into overtime, and put the pressure on the rest of the team to make a play instead of wanting to put the team on his back and do something great for a chance....

Why would you not want the chance to win it right then and there, when you know that if you go into overtime it's sudden death....

DAVID CARR WOULD RATHER PUT HIS FAITH IN A COIN TOSS THAN HIMSELF....

I agree. I also think this is the reason he never throws the ball downfield. He's afraid of possibly throwing a pick. There were a couple times I noticed players open down field when he elected to dump off. Owen was wide open on one of them and DC wasn't even rushed hard on the play. There were probably several more plays were he dumped it off that someone else was open. We need a QB with decisiveness and vision. DC doen't have it or he has lost it.:twocents:

the wonger need food
12-11-2006, 10:50 AM
Notice how the option of leading his team down the field to win the game isn't even mentioned...


"Dropping back, I would have been in the end zone," Carr said. "It's not like they weren't rushing the passer well. They were getting after it. It's a toss-up: Do you want to lose the game there, or do you want to take your chances at home in overtime?"

Honoring Earl 34
12-11-2006, 10:51 AM
How much time was left in the Cowboy - Giants game last week when Romo hit the TE and Gramatica kicked the FG .

I've had my signature for about a week figuring it would be fitting .

Vinny
12-11-2006, 10:52 AM
put in your tape or queue up your TIVO, but if you roll the film you can see David Carr totally laughing it up and acting like he just won the game when he drove down to get Brown the kick to tie the game up. I was asking everyone, what is Carr doing and what the heck is he finding so much humor in right now? The game was still on the line and he was enjoying some huge belly laughs on the sidelines right after the FG drive with 2 mins left in the game. I was totally disgusted with that.

Buffi2
12-11-2006, 10:58 AM
I find it amazing that even the fans get into losing football around here too...lets face it, we are a 4 win team going into week 15 in the NFL, in a year where we need to evaluate our QB and we take a knee with a min left needing a field goal? Someone please tell me what the heck we had to lose by putting Carr in a position to do something dramatic or carry this team on his 'big arm'? How the heck do you evaluate your QB when you take a knee? You can't. We took the knee, cut down on the excuses and meekly laid down in the fetal position.

pitiful

Total agreement here. If the Kubiak asking Carr what he wanted to do is fact - then Carr just failed that little test with a big fat zero. I don't care if your front line is playing with broken arms and :crutch: - you still try. Heck, we've lost games in the last 10 seconds and Carr had almost a minute.

I'd feel better (I think) if we had lost due to an interception or 3 sacks rather than the Hollywood scenario that actually happened. Even trying to run the ball would be better than taking a knee.

Of all the bad messages sent during this game beginning with not introducing any player, this was the worst.

pitiful, sad, and :hairpull:

real
12-11-2006, 10:59 AM
I think that with only one minute left to go along with zero timeouts every single person in that stadium knew that in order for us to put ourselves into position for even a field goal starting from our own 6-7 yardline we would have to pass almost exclusively. Jeff Fisher's boys would have their ears pinned back just coming after our QB.
Now having said that our patch work O-Line has not been able to protect our QB even in regular(not obviously passing) situations, so how could you as a coach ask them to try to do it with the Titans knowing thats what we are doing. I just don't think that's very smart to do.
If we throw the ball there trying to make something happen we'll make something happen alright something bad is going to happen. Pick your poisin sack,fumble,interception maybe even a saftey(would'nt that be a fun new way to lose a game).
Making the call to take a kneel was the right play when you consider all of the things we had going against us in that situation and yes one of those things going against us in that situation may very well be David Carr(notice I used our"QB"above) but I don't see going for the win there with our line no matter who the QB is....well maybe a few exceptions.



Really think about what you're saying and put things into perspective.....

NATHANHALE
12-11-2006, 11:00 AM
I was just glad he didn't take a knee in the end zone.

...good point, especially after that 'weird' throw out of bounds when he was past the line of scrimmage...

Honoring Earl 34
12-11-2006, 11:01 AM
What did Gene Hackman tell Carr ... I mean Falco . He said " Shane winners always want the ball " .

real
12-11-2006, 11:01 AM
put in your tape or queue up your TIVO, but if you roll the film you can see David Carr totally laughing it up and acting like he just won the game when he drove down to get Brown the kick to tie the game up. I was asking everyone, what is Carr doing and what the heck is he finding so much humor in right now? The game was still on the line and he was enjoying some huge belly laughs on the sidelines right after the FG drive with 2 mins left in the game. I was totally disgusted with that.

At this point I really think Carr is hurting the development of our team...mainly our offense.....

Owen Daniels' growth as a player has been stunted because of Carr's inability to throw the ball down field....

BigWig
12-11-2006, 11:02 AM
put in your tape or queue up your TIVO, but if you roll the film you can see David Carr totally laughing it up and acting like he just won the game when he drove down to get Brown the kick to tie the game up. I was asking everyone, what is Carr doing and what the heck is he finding so much humor in right now? The game was still on the line and he was enjoying some huge belly laughs on the sidelines right after the FG drive with 2 mins left in the game. I was totally disgusted with that.

Face it Vin he gets paid win or lose, its just not right. This whole salary thing is outa whack with athletes today. There is no incentive to win. It reminds me of this commercial aring here in the ATX about Walmart, where they show this Walmart employeecrying because she will have to work 1,000 years to even get close to making the salary of the CEO, too funny.
I too was upsat with Davey for being way too jovial when he should be firing up the team to win.

NATHANHALE
12-11-2006, 11:03 AM
O my good lord gosh!!!

Football IQ runs strong in your family does it not, lets go 88 yards with no protection like there was all day and maybe get sacked or have a ball tipped and picked, lets throw it to Dre and trust him O wait he already dropped 2 balls that day I am sure we can trust him to come down with one, I could go on but I am sure I would just loose you...........

I am not a Carr hater but I think he is a looser? Who are you trying to fool with a comment like that.

Lets just say more bad things could have happened to you then good at that point.

heck, let's just put up a 'white flag' and go home....after all, there are no guarantees where a team is going to get the ball...and, it's spelled lose and loser....

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 11:04 AM
put in your tape or queue up your TIVO, but if you roll the film you can see David Carr totally laughing it up and acting like he just won the game when he drove down to get Brown the kick to tie the game up. I was asking everyone, what is Carr doing and what the heck is he finding so much humor in right now? The game was still on the line and he was enjoying some huge belly laughs on the sidelines right after the FG drive with 2 mins left in the game. I was totally disgusted with that.

Vinny, Carr is just a loser. He doesnt compete and doesn't have the innate desire to win at everything. Football isn't even a priority in his life...we all know its faith and family that come first with David...and that is BS for a franchise QB that the whole organization relies on

if you want faith and family to be your #1 and #2 priority, then go get a job at Time Warner or Reliant Energy....if you want to succeed as an NFL QB you can't have some stupid 'Leave it to Beaver' view on how life is prioritized....we have seen what faith and family have gotten us with Carr...5 years of embarassing and inept football

real
12-11-2006, 11:04 AM
I heard an interview with Salaam, and they asked him about Carr's leadership....

His answer: "he's getting there"

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 11:05 AM
I heard an interview with Salaam, and they asked him about Carr's leadership....

His answer: "he's getting there"

haha lawl....that is teamspeak for 'Carr doesnt have leadership'

BigBull17
12-11-2006, 11:06 AM
There was no timeouts. This was the correct call. It would have been the correct call if Elway in his prime was our QB. You are at home, you take your chances in OT. Had we been 20 or 30 yards farther up the field and/or had a single timeout, yea. But not when you are inside your own 10 and no TOs &
only 50 seconds.
And the blitz of VY was the correct call. And if you don't like that, then you're being critical of the Texans being too agressive. If the blitz is successful, then the Titans are out of FG range.
The call I didn't get was throwing down the field to Daniels on 2nd and 6, and
after the incompletion running Dayne again to try to get 6 for the first ? You
gotta pass when its 3rd and you need 6 !
]


And there is the problem right there, inappproprate play calls. With the lead in the 3rd quarter Ron Dayne vanished. I dont remember seeing him on the field again for the remainder of the game. When you are killing them with the run and pass three times in a row when they start to build momentum you deserve to lose. When you cant tackle to save your life down the stretch you deserve to lose. When you give up a 15 yrd dive on 2nd and 19 you deserve to lose. When you cant cover anybody at all you deserve to lose. There is enough blame to go around on this one, not just kneeling down with less than a minute left in the fourth on the 8 yrd line.

nunusguy
12-11-2006, 11:09 AM
I find it amazing that even the fans get into losing football around here too...lets face it, we are a 4 win team going into week 15 in the NFL, in a year where we need to evaluate our QB and we take a knee with a min left needing a field goal? Someone please tell me what the heck we had to lose by putting Carr in a position to do something dramatic or carry this team on his 'big arm'? How the heck do you evaluate your QB when you take a knee? You can't. We took the knee, cut down on the excuses and meekly laid down in the fetal position.
pitiful
I hear you, but winning the game is a higher priority to me than evaluating Carr and I calculate that my chances with a coin flip (50-50), and Mathis getting us some field position in OT for a FG are better than getting aggressive with Carr and that offense when we are inside our own 10, no TOs, etc.

TransplantTexan1
12-11-2006, 11:20 AM
I've skipped over some posts so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I think the biggest error of the game within the final five minutes of regulation, was the Texan's philosphy with the ball inside Tennesse's 40, down by 3. I thought the Texans fell victim to their same conservative philosophy. Didn't think they worked hard enough to get the next first down and thought they settled too easily for the FG. They were lucky the Titans didn't take the final two minutes of the game to drive down field and kick the game winning FG (not that it mattered).

I think that scenario was mishandled a lot more than the final possesion inside the ten.

NATHANHALE
12-11-2006, 11:21 AM
What's really sad is that only 10% of Carr's passes are down the middle, with the rest being dink/dunk or rt/lt sideline--meaning that Carr should be an 'expert' at using the side line to get us in FG range. How is he going to ever succeed in these situations if he never tries?

Did you notice the throws that Young missed on? They were a 'couple' of inches from being completed and probally will be next year. On his side line Throws to Bennet, Young throws on Bennets left, where only he can get the ball--in contrast, Carr throws a 'jump' ball that AJ always has to slow down for or even come back to and then 'fight' for the ball. Even at UT, Young had good 'placement.' Remember Ohio State?

Finally, did anyone watch how Bennet caught the ball?...with his hands, and then secures it against his body. AJ, on the other hand (a problem his entire career in college/pros), catches the ball against his body which is less secure and easier to bat away....

fhlh
12-11-2006, 11:22 AM
I was just glad he didn't take a knee in the end zone.


hmmmm... I think he shoulda.... woulda made VY a non-story. :)

Vinny
12-11-2006, 11:23 AM
I hear you, but winning the game is a higher priority to me than evaluating Carr and I calculate that my chances with a coin flip (50-50), and Mathis getting us some field position in OT for a FG are better than getting aggressive with Carr and that offense when we are inside our own 10, no TOs, etc.
yeah, let's evaluate Carr in a high pressure situation next year...what the heck. If you aren't going to put him in pressure situations when you are a 4 win team going into week 15 you may as well tell not introduce your players because you are afraid of boos....oh wait, we did do that. Taking a knee in this situation is consistent with them not introducing the players before the game to protect the feelings of David Carr. Why don't we change our name to the Possums? Taking a knee here is the same as curling up in the fetal position. Most of us here are Texans (a proud people with a strong will....hell, we aren't supposed to go out like this - Where is everyone's pride?). This Sesame Street style team management is great for pop warner football, but someone please wake up the Texans and tell them we are all adults out here.

Runner
12-11-2006, 11:23 AM
Making the call to take a kneel was the right play when you consider ...

In my opinion, IF it is the right decision then it is the right decision for the coach to make. The QB should be fired up to go for it. That fire seems to be beaten out of Dave.

NATHANHALE
12-11-2006, 11:26 AM
I've skipped over some posts so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I think the biggest error of the game within the final five minutes of regulation, was the Texan's philosphy with the ball inside Tennesse's 40, down by 3. I thought the Texans fell victim to their same conservative philosophy. Didn't think they worked hard enough to get the next first down and thought they settled too easily for the FG. They were lucky the Titans didn't take the final two minutes of the game to drive down field and kick the game winning FG (not that it mattered).

I think that scenario was mishandled a lot more than the final possesion inside the ten.

...good point and this is why Dayne ran toward the hash mark to ctr the ball for a FG...'coaching not to lose' continues to be what the foundation of this team has and remains built on...

Kubiak told us he would do whatever it took to win,,,notttttttttttttttt

ojthecat
12-11-2006, 11:27 AM
We have an offensive line that can not pickup the blitz. Winston is the worst right tackle in pass coverage that I have ever seen until this is fixed there is no way our coaching staff will have confidence dropping back to pass in obvious passing situations. This was a tough loss for many reasons but the fact that we were even in the game is amazing. Go back and look at the past two games and watch the play of the o-line when pass blocking. You will see that our talent level on the o-line is (in my opinion) one of the worst o-lines in the history of the modern game. Until we upgrade our talent level of the o-line we have zero chance of being a winning team.

I totally agree with the unpopular call of taking a knee.

Here are the needs of our team as I see it for next year.

1. O-line. --- Top Priority
2. Defensive backs
3. Running back
4. D-line
5. Quarterback.

I truly believe that if our o-line was even average we would be at least .500 this year.

Runner
12-11-2006, 11:29 AM
I hear you, but winning the game is a higher priority to me than evaluating Carr and I calculate that my chances with a coin flip (50-50), and Mathis getting us some field position in OT for a FG are better than getting aggressive with Carr and that offense when we are inside our own 10, no TOs, etc.

On a tangent - ate the end of the fourth quarter Mathis returned a kick to the 30 or so, and the Titans were offsides. The Texans chose to add the 5 yards to the end of the run instead of having the Titans re-kick from five yards deeper. Since Mathis is our biggest playmaking threat, why didn't they make them re-kick and give him another shot?

Honoring Earl 34
12-11-2006, 11:31 AM
I saw about three 3rd down and 6 yds or so where we ran it . This tells you Kubiak will not put the game in Carr's hands or Carr changed plays .

I enjoy them being competitive but its to hard watching at the end . Maybe I'll just watch three quarters ... oh wait I'd be no better than them .

eriadoc
12-11-2006, 11:33 AM
I had two points of concern on that play ending the first half before hearing about Carr's interview. First, my impression was that the coach has no faith in Carr at all. I think that's well documented, so I figured it was a given. Earlier in the season, however, Kubiak would challenge Carr and the rest of the team. Which leads to the second point ... how little faith do you have to have in your entire offense not to at least hand the ball off once or twice and see what happens? The lack of faith in Carr I can understand, but any QB can hand the ball off. Put Lundy in there, who has shown he can break off a long run at times and see what happens. If you fail to break anything open, no big deal as you can still run the clock down. That has nothing to do with Carr, and is very disturbing to me. Hell, only last week we took the game out of Carr's hands and still drove down the field for a FG (granted, not in :53, but still).

nunusguy
12-11-2006, 11:34 AM
I for one think this organizations evaluation of David Carr is now complete.

JDizzle
12-11-2006, 11:41 AM
Carr had an opportunity yesterday to shut the critics up and he played like a backup should play. No turnovers and a cute little QB rating. Yay. This year was supposed to be the year Carr showed us why he was worth all that money, and he hasn't, he showed why he'd make a good backup QB. A few plays here and there, limited mistakes and a cute rating.

Blu
12-11-2006, 11:42 AM
Carr's leadership skills are null and void!

:aikido:
If he's back for another season..I might just have to bench myself as a fan.

No Confidence equals no heart...plain and simple.

wags
12-11-2006, 11:43 AM
if you want faith and family to be your #1 and #2 priority, then go get a job at Time Warner or Reliant Energy....if you want to succeed as an NFL QB you can't have some stupid 'Leave it to Beaver' view on how life is prioritized....we have seen what faith and family have gotten us with Carr...5 years of embarassing and inept football

That's ridiculous. Having faith and family as your top priority doesn't make a bad NFL quarterback... just ask Vince Young. You can criticize him for bad QB play, but saying his play is related to being a good guy is weak.

brncoz1fan
12-11-2006, 11:48 AM
]


And there is the problem right there, inappproprate play calls. With the lead in the 3rd quarter Ron Dayne vanished. I dont remember seeing him on the field again for the remainder of the game. When you are killing them with the run and pass three times in a row when they start to build momentum you deserve to lose. When you cant tackle to save your life down the stretch you deserve to lose. When you give up a 15 yrd dive on 2nd and 19 you deserve to lose. When you cant cover anybody at all you deserve to lose. There is enough blame to go around on this one, not just kneeling down with less than a minute left in the fourth on the 8 yrd line.

What happened to Dayne? I was only able to listen to the game. Did he get injured? It was odd not to see him again at the end of the second half.

kfranco_utexas
12-11-2006, 12:17 PM
Are y'all familiar with the saying, "Poooooooor Aggies"?!


Well, in this case it's "Poooooooooooooooooooooooooooooor Carrrr"


The guy sucks and yall are finally realizing it. WOW, it only took yall 5 freaking years. McNair will take another 5 before he realizes that Carr is not the QB he thought hed turn into.


Someone hire me, we could have had VY as our Qb. Everyone would LOVE me some Me. :ok:

kfranco_utexas
12-11-2006, 12:18 PM
I cant believe there are still people with Carr avatars. :secret:

fhlh
12-11-2006, 12:18 PM
1. O-line. --- Top Priority
2. Defensive backs
3. Running back
4. D-line
5. Quarterback.

I truly believe that if our o-line was even average we would be at least .500 this year.

Dunno about this....
I seem to remember Sage being able to adjust and have success with this current o-line for a half earlier this year... and yet he was never heard from again (yes I know he's out with a busted digit)...

Hulk75
12-11-2006, 12:21 PM
put in your tape or queue up your TIVO, but if you roll the film you can see David Carr totally laughing it up and acting like he just won the game when he drove down to get Brown the kick to tie the game up. I was asking everyone, what is Carr doing and what the heck is he finding so much humor in right now? The game was still on the line and he was enjoying some huge belly laughs on the sidelines right after the FG drive with 2 mins left in the game. I was totally disgusted with that.

Your a joke you can kick me off this thing the rest of the year, but your jerk, and you have no idea what he was laughing about.

Vinny
12-11-2006, 12:23 PM
Your a joke you can kick me off this thing the rest of the year, but your jerk, and you have no idea what he was laughing about.I've banned you before and I will again if you can't control yourself. Stick to comments about the players or the game....lay off the personal attacks.

kfranco_utexas
12-11-2006, 12:28 PM
"Carr = LOSER. Always has, always will."

I disagree, I think he will be good once he goes to another team...just not for the Texans.

Kind of like J Harrington..he is during pretty decent in Miami.

Ole Miss Texan
12-11-2006, 12:43 PM
I was glad to see us kneel down to take the game into overtime. 7yard line we could have fumbled the ball (ala cook) or thown an easy int to pacman returned for a td or even a fg to lose us the game. I want david carr to be like coach i can do it...let's go win this thing. and then kubiak so no no no you suck kneel down. that's how it should go.

i would have been pissed to see us go for it from our 7yd line. If we had a more proven leader that could get us down to fg range..go for it. with david carr you can't. I understand y'all being upset, but you can't have both.

Do you think Carr really could have led us down the field in 53 seconds when HE CANNOT EVEN GET DOWN THERE DURING A 2 MINUTE DRILL!!!!!!??

t_flare
12-11-2006, 12:53 PM
ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!

53 seconds left, No Timeouts, at our OWN 5 yard line, with a injured Offensive line... I dont think anyteam (maybe Colts only) would think about trying to go down 60 yard for a FG... in 53 seconds with no timeouts.

aj.
12-11-2006, 12:56 PM
At one point David Carr had heart. .

Yeah ... Week 1 of the '02 season.

I think he lost it during Week 2 at San Diego in what amounted to a foreshadowing of the next four years.

As far as the other subject, 53 seconds - no timeouts - tie score - on your own 7 yard line. You do what the Texans did, everything considered.

Malloy
12-11-2006, 01:23 PM
I How the heck do you evaluate your QB when you take a knee?

Carr has mad knee-taking skillz !!

SESupergenius
12-11-2006, 01:23 PM
I don't know of a single QB with any kind of fire in his belly that would have said no thank you to an opprotunity to drive his team to get into position to win...And I don't know about the 88 yard thing...all we needed was a field goal....

If David Carr said no thanks to that, then he didn't have faith in himself or the team...Had I been one of his offensive lineman, I would have looked at him like WTF did he just say ? I can understand Kubiak wanting to be conservative, but as a player for you to not want an opprotunity like that is pretty weak, lame, and sorry....JMO

Titans had a 4th and 2 at midfield with 1:06 remaining. Seems Jeff Fisher knows when to play the odds too because he could have easliy put all of his eggs in one basket as well, but instead played the smart thing and punted it away. You just don't gamble too much on your own 7 with no timeouts. It's not like the Titans don't have a good defense.

real
12-11-2006, 01:31 PM
Titans had a 4th and 2 at midfield with 1:06 remaining. Seems Jeff Fisher knows when to play the odds too because he could have easliy put all of his eggs in one basket as well, but instead played the smart thing and punted it away. You just don't gamble too much on your own 7 with no timeouts. It's not like the Titans don't have a good defense.

I'll respond to you because you quoted me....But the point is that Carr didn't want to go for it....He was scared....I'm not going to discuss whether or not it was the right call or not, because that isn't the point...

I can't even imagine a QB that if asked whether or not he wanted to go for it, would have said something to the effect of "no"....

50+ seconds was more than enough time for them to get into field goal range....But they had the same mentality that you all have....They were scared....nervous.....timid....We had a chance to atleast make an effort to win the game on our own terms....It was up to us at that point....But instead We chose to put our faith in a coin toss....Great strategy....

real
12-11-2006, 01:31 PM
Titans had a 4th and 2 at midfield with 1:06 remaining.

And I'm sorry but that's not the same situation in the slightest...

SESupergenius
12-11-2006, 01:34 PM
yeah, let's evaluate Carr in a high pressure situation next year...what the heck. If you aren't going to put him in pressure situations when you are a 4 win team going into week 15 you may as well tell not introduce your players because you are afraid of boos....oh wait, we did do that. Taking a knee in this situation is consistent with them not introducing the players before the game to protect the feelings of David Carr. Why don't we change our name to the Possums? Taking a knee here is the same as curling up in the fetal position. Most of us here are Texans (a proud people with a strong will....hell, we aren't supposed to go out like this - Where is everyone's pride?). This Sesame Street style team management is great for pop warner football, but someone please wake up the Texans and tell them we are all adults out here.
Carr did come from behind and tie the game. Even threw over the middle. We lost the coin toss so he didn't have a chance to win it. He did however miss his opportunity to win the game in regulation. I was about to jump all over Vince Young....until the last play of the game. That was just a wierd play, Texans gambled and lost.

TSgt.Texan
12-11-2006, 01:35 PM
I was just glad he didn't take a knee in the end zone.

I wish he would of, then we would not of had to see VY run down the field, and make us look like fools.(draft wise)

TSgt.Texan
12-11-2006, 01:55 PM
Carr should be traded to Detroit as soon as possible. He is a perfect fit there.

He would be referred to as the Cowardly Lion.LOL:ok:

SESupergenius
12-11-2006, 01:59 PM
I'll respond to you because you quoted me....But the point is that Carr didn't want to go for it....He was scared....I'm not going to discuss whether or not it was the right call or not, because that isn't the point....
I guess Fisher was scared too because he didn't go for it, it was only a couple of yards. pfft. That offensive line were up in the pocket all day and being on the 7 yard line trying to throw makes it that much easier. I don't know of too many coaches that would risk the situation giving the circumstances, I know Fisher wouldn't, he wouldn't even go for a 4th and two at mid field.

I don't like the play to lose mentality either, but our offense was not throwing overly well against the Titans and we had no timeouts to spare. It was at minimum a good conservative call when so much can go wrong and has.

jerek
12-11-2006, 02:00 PM
On a tangent - ate the end of the fourth quarter Mathis returned a kick to the 30 or so, and the Titans were offsides. The Texans chose to add the 5 yards to the end of the run instead of having the Titans re-kick from five yards deeper. Since Mathis is our biggest playmaking threat, why didn't they make them re-kick and give him another shot?

Because David Carr told them not to. :rolleyes: The answer for everything that ails us!

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 02:01 PM
We have an offensive line that can not pickup the blitz. Winston is the worst right tackle in pass coverage that I have ever seen until this is fixed there is no way our coaching staff will have confidence dropping back to pass in obvious passing situations. This was a tough loss for many reasons but the fact that we were even in the game is amazing. Go back and look at the past two games and watch the play of the o-line when pass blocking. You will see that our talent level on the o-line is (in my opinion) one of the worst o-lines in the history of the modern game. Until we upgrade our talent level of the o-line we have zero chance of being a winning team.

I totally agree with the unpopular call of taking a knee.

Here are the needs of our team as I see it for next year.

1. O-line. --- Top Priority
2. Defensive backs
3. Running back
4. D-line
5. Quarterback.

I truly believe that if our o-line was even average we would be at least .500 this year.

whatever man, keep blaming everyone else and making excuses for Lil Davey. The OL isnt the problem, its the QB.

but whatever, buy your stupid Carr jersey, continue to buy the party line, and fall in with the rrest of the homers. McNair is going to be counting on fans like you over the next year or two because the knowledgeable fans are already throwing scuds in the direction of the franchise, front office, and QB.

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 02:02 PM
Titans had a 4th and 2 at midfield with 1:06 remaining. Seems Jeff Fisher knows when to play the odds too because he could have easliy put all of his eggs in one basket as well, but instead played the smart thing and punted it away. You just don't gamble too much on your own 7 with no timeouts. It's not like the Titans don't have a good defense.

hahahahahahha

you got owned ses.......OWNED

hahahahahahah

that is what you get for still being a homer.....

ps. - edited for Lucky. clueless is no longer allowed when describing the mindset of typical homer fan. np at all.

eric138
12-11-2006, 02:02 PM
I heard what Carr said this morning and it was pitiful but nothing I wouldn't expect from him. He isn't a burger flipper, he is a freaking QB on an NFL team. Anyone that has a respectable job will not say "its up to you boss." They will do what they are supposed to do and the good ones will over-achieve.

This radio piece is basically Carr's public announcement to the Houston area that he will not over-achieve in his job. So it's time for the Texans Org to find someone that will.

Carr = a very well paid burger flipper

real
12-11-2006, 02:05 PM
I guess Fisher was scared too because he didn't go for it, it was only a couple of yards. pfft. That offensive line were up in the pocket all day and being on the 7 yard line trying to throw makes it that much easier. I don't know of too many coaches that would risk the situation giving the circumstances, I know Fisher wouldn't, he wouldn't even go for a 4th and two at mid field.

I don't like the play to lose mentality either, but our offense was not throwing overly well against the Titans and we had no timeouts to spare. It was at minimum a good conservative call when so much can go wrong and has.

Like I said...The Fisher decision wasn't the same thing as Carr not wanting to go for it....Had the Titans not made it then we would have only needed about 20 yards to have a darn good field goal try to win the game...

That situation is not the same as your QB not having the fortitude to want to win the game on his own terms....I don't see how you defend the guy......Basically the Texans would rather put their faith in a coin toss than David Carr.....50 seconds is plenty of time to throw a few sideline routes and get into field goal range....And it's not really even about the call....It's about David Carr not stepping up and wanting the spotlight in that situation....

Lucky
12-11-2006, 02:13 PM
I'll respond to you because you quoted me....But the point is that Carr didn't want to go for it....He was scared....I'm not going to discuss whether or not it was the right call or not, because that isn't the point...
That is the point. Whether Carr is scared, doesn't believe in himself, doesn't believe in his teammates (BINGO, IMO)...what does it matter. He didn't tell Kubiak, "Let's go win this thing!". He doesn't believe anymore, and he's not going to lay it on the line for this team, anymore. Those illegal passes across the LOS prove that.


hahahahahahah

that is what you get for being a clueless homer imho

Everyone loves a good winner, DFW. :thumbdown

wwffan99tx
12-11-2006, 02:13 PM
I guess Fisher was scared too because he didn't go for it, it was only a couple of yards. pfft. That offensive line were up in the pocket all day and being on the 7 yard line trying to throw makes it that much easier. I don't know of too many coaches that would risk the situation giving the circumstances, I know Fisher wouldn't, he wouldn't even go for a 4th and two at mid field.

I don't like the play to lose mentality either, but our offense was not throwing overly well against the Titans and we had no timeouts to spare. It was at minimum a good conservative call when so much can go wrong and has.

You are missing the point......had Fisher asked VY what he wanted to do I guarantee he would have wanted to win the game there. Carr didn't want to. That is the point here.

real
12-11-2006, 02:17 PM
You are missing the point......had Fisher asked VY what he wanted to do I guarantee he would have wanted to win the game there. Carr didn't want to. That is the point here.

I don't compare Carr to individual QB's anymore because I don't think it's fair to him....


Instead I compare him to the leauge as a whole....


And there isn't one starter(mayber backup) that wouldn't have said let's go for it if asked....

sleepwalker
12-11-2006, 02:27 PM
I think it's a mistake to try and make Carr the leader of this team.....Nobody wants to follow him.

What is wrong with him NOT being the team leader? I don't think Ben as a rookie with pitt was the team leader and they got it done.

Carr and all of us need to just forget about this leader stuff from him because he is a *follower* and we all know it...Leaders lead by example like Demeco. That's who players follow.

I don't want to hear Carr say anymore stuff like *my team did this, my team did that for me* I don't like it, it should be *we* and *us* as a team.

He is too immature for this role of *Leader*.....So he should just shut up, perform and let a true leader lead this team.

Just my opinion.

Grid
12-11-2006, 02:28 PM
Let me start this by saying I am not a Carr hater. I have supported him his entire career with the Texans. But this morning on 610 he was asked about taking a knee with 53 seconds left in the game. He said Kubiak asked him what he thought and he responded with "It's up to you coach." Then he proceeded to ramble on that the Titans were getting a good rush all day and if he dropped back he would be on the goal line and blah, blah, blah. This pissed me off. Would VY or any other great QB have that attitude? No, they would WANT the ball and take a chance to win the game. I'm through with Carr now. He is a loser and always will be. Kubiak can't make him have heart.


Didnt Kubiak say something to the effect of "no more coaching, you have 4 games to prove yourself".. or something like that? I remember reading that somewhere.

Anyway.. if Kubes did say that.. then im betting he didnt appreciate Carr's lack of tenacity in that situation.

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 02:37 PM
That is the point. Whether Carr is scared, doesn't believe in himself, doesn't believe in his teammates (BINGO, IMO)...what does it matter. He didn't tell Kubiak, "Let's go win this thing!". He doesn't believe anymore, and he's not going to lay it on the line for this team, anymore. Those illegal passes across the LOS prove that.



Everyone loves a good winner, DFW. :thumbdown

my post has been edited per your rep/suggestion. however, i want to clear something up. i didnt win anything by SES having to display a BudAdams avatar. I just checked my mail and I got nothing. I just think its funny when some of these fans who are less in touch with reality have to pay the freaking piper....its classic and was good for a big laugh

i love a good winner too, and I have been waiting for 5 years for one....and we aint even close and its only gonna get worse with Carr signed for another 2 years and Kubiak fresh off being hired.....we are stuck with that garbage for probably next year at least....i am not very happy at this time and i am not alone anymore...i just wish there was an adult thread so that some of these little kids couldnt continue to hide behind obscenity filters and moderation and we could speak our mind freely without worrying about moderation or worse (banning)

Texans34Life
12-11-2006, 02:40 PM
Man, I'm getting sick of all these people who keep defending Carr.

We have given this bum 4 years (4 years of Houston Football that I will never get back) and he hasn't done anything with this squad - even after upgrades on the OL and WR. We passed up Vince Young in the draft and give Carr a huge contract. Nothing has changed with the guy. Even with a little improvement on the OL, he still hasn't been the proven QB that we were expecting.

Screw his QB rating. Wins is what's important in this league. If your offense can't produce crap game in and game out, you should benched or waived.

Honoring Earl 34
12-11-2006, 02:44 PM
If it was the bottom of the 9th the winning run on 3rd and 1 out ... Phil Garner walks out to the mound an ask Roger Clements if he wanted to continue , does anyone doubt Roger would say hell yes .

The Dream
12-11-2006, 03:31 PM
While watching the post game interview yesterday there were 2 things that I noticed

1. Carr has a losers mentality - I get sick of the "this one hurts, but we have to look ahead" talk that he's been giving us for 5 years....it's time for the Texans to go in a different direction

2. Carr dresses like a female - YES.....I'm sick of seeing the pretty boy shirts with various flower patterns on them....Question to all the Texans fans on the board.....Could you ever invision Favre, Montana, Elway, etc. wearing different shirts week after week, with various flower patterns on them???....NO!!!!.....the dude is a pretty boy model....GET HIM THE HELL OUT OF HOUSTON!!!!!

Kaiser Toro
12-11-2006, 03:34 PM
the dude is a pretty boy model

Does anyone else see the irony in this statement? ;)

SBTexans08
12-11-2006, 03:35 PM
Carr is not it for us. We've given him ample time to show his true colors. He has...and they aren't the colors that resemble those of a champion. If you expect less than a champion....then you're either in the wrong business if you're running it (McNair, Kubiak, rest of the coaching staff) or a fan of the wrong pass time.

I am convinced that Carr is no good for us. I don't regret the Mario pick and foregoing Bush and Young. But for gawd sakes!!! Get us a QB with half the heart a championship QB has and we'll be considerably better than what Carr makes us. Hell...right now, I'm all for us benching Carr (although not the most prudent decision, financially wise) and starting Rosenfels. Whatever....just take Carr out of there. He's done here!

real
12-11-2006, 03:35 PM
I think I've laughed reading this message board more today, than I have collectively since I became a member...

profan
12-11-2006, 03:47 PM
I find it amazing that even the fans get into losing football around here too...lets face it, we are a 4 win team going into week 15 in the NFL, in a year where we need to evaluate our QB and we take a knee with a min left needing a field goal? Someone please tell me what the heck we had to lose by putting Carr in a position to do something dramatic or carry this team on his 'big arm'? How the heck do you evaluate your QB when you take a knee? You can't. We took the knee, cut down on the excuses and meekly laid down in the fetal position.

pitiful

The evaluation was made when the qb did not show any desire to persuade the coach to go for it. I an not going to trust a guy that does not have any confidence to start a drive at my own 7. Last week fisher just told vince to do his thing, kubiak does not have that luxury. What we need is a fair qb competition next year, just like every other position. Carr was given the starting spot every year with no competition. If i'm a player on this team, i would really resent the fact that i'm busting my tail off to earn a position on this team, when the qb is given the job.

profan
12-11-2006, 03:50 PM
Carr is not it for us. We've given him ample time to show his true colors. He has...and they aren't the colors that resemble those of a champion. If you expect less than a champion....then you're either in the wrong business if you're running it (McNair, Kubiak, rest of the coaching staff) or a fan of the wrong pass time.

I am convinced that Carr is no good for us. I don't regret the Mario pick and foregoing Bush and Young. But for gawd sakes!!! Get us a QB with half the heart a championship QB has and we'll be considerably better than what Carr makes us. Hell...right now, I'm all for us benching Carr (although not the most prudent decision, financially wise) and starting Rosenfels. Whatever....just take Carr out of there. He's done here!

Rosenfels is out for the year with injury. It's going to be carr for the next three games.

HOU-TEX
12-11-2006, 04:02 PM
Rosenfels is out for the year with injury. It's going to be carr for the next three games.

Was it just me or did someone else notice Porter was dressed yesterday? If we had 3 QBs dressed out yesterday, does that mean Kubiak was skeptical on Carr? I just found it odd that he'd dress three QBs for this game.:confused:

Sorry I went off topic but I didn't want to start a new QB thread.

SBTexans08
12-11-2006, 04:11 PM
Rosenfels is out for the year with injury. It's going to be carr for the next three games.

I know...that's what make it worse... I'll take an injured/physically incapable of playing Rosenfels over Carr. :tease:


No...but all joking aside. Man...enough's enough.

JDizzle
12-11-2006, 04:14 PM
Was it just me or did someone else notice Porter was dressed yesterday? If we had 3 QBs dressed out yesterday, does that mean Kubiak was skeptical on Carr? I just found it odd that he'd dress three QBs for this game.:confused:

Sorry I went off topic but I didn't want to start a new QB thread.

I think after Sage went down Kubiak was worried about a backup QB. We knew Sage would do fine (if not better) but it was probably a toss-up between Porter and Van Pelt. If Carr went down you are stuck with one guy. Activating Porter gave him another option should Carr get hurt.

Goldeagle
12-11-2006, 04:29 PM
Look........EVERYTHING IS DAVIDS FAULT! If we went for it and #80 dropped a pass or there was a fumble, today we would see "Carr could not drive us with 53 seconds."

ojthecat
12-11-2006, 04:53 PM
whatever man, keep blaming everyone else and making excuses for Lil Davey. The OL isnt the problem, its the QB.

but whatever, buy your stupid Carr jersey, continue to buy the party line, and fall in with the rrest of the homers. McNair is going to be counting on fans like you over the next year or two because the knowledgeable fans are already throwing scuds in the direction of the franchise, front office, and QB.

First let me say that knowlegable fans know that our OL is terrible.

Secondly if your defintion of fan rooting for the home team even when they are bad means that fan is a homer then sir I am a HOMER and damm proud of it!!!

bad
12-11-2006, 05:02 PM
This is my view on this whole thing.

Carr has most of the abilities needed to play QB, he can run, he can throw, he's in very good shape.

What he lasks, and what this radio interview somewhat acknowledges is that he is not a very good leader. For me a good leader is someone who makes a decision and acts upon it, regardless of whether or not it results in a success. A good leader is one that acts, regardless of the outcome; A bad leader is one that does not act.

To me this is Carr's flaw, he does not act, he does not make a decision. I know there are many other factors to why he has not had too much success, coaches, playcalling, offensive line, running game. But even considering all of these things, I still see a Carr afraid, unable or incapable of acting.
Bingo! Give the man a kewpie doll.

I was very much hoping for Carr's success and still wish him the best, but this is becoming old hat. Vince Young may never be a pretty pocket passer but he's a killer, and I want a killer behind center.

Actually I want Brett Favre fifteen years ago behind center, but "wish in one hand..."

I remember watching a game late last year, Carr was getting knocked around pretty good as usual and Paul McGuire says "The Texans are gonna ruin this guy."

Now, maybe he was always ruined (as in never was an NFL talent) and maybe the Texans lack of building a remotely decent offensive line (or even a decent offensive philosophy during the Capers years) gave him happy feet. We may never know.

One thing I think I do know is this; he's ruined as far as being the Texans QB. There's just too much antipathy built up towards him among the Texans fandom. Maybe he'll succeed somewhere else or maybe not, and then we'll know if it was him all along or the Texans or (most likely) a combination of both.

Either way, I don't see the same thing you don't see...a killer instinct. It sucks, it's a shame, but there it isn't.

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 05:57 PM
First let me say that knowlegable fans know that our OL is terrible.

Secondly if your defintion of fan rooting for the home team even when they are bad means that fan is a homer then sir I am a HOMER and damm proud of it!!!

Our OL is not the problem with the team. That has been the excuse for 5 years running. We need more depth so you can survive through inevitable injuries, but so does everyone.

there is nothing wrong with rooting for your home team, in fact that is what it means to be a 'fan'. However, when people believe and support a player's production or a team's decisions for the sole reason that they happen to play for the hometeam, THAT is a homer. That is just my opinion of course. I am a fan just like you but I refuse to praise and support moves that have created an inferior product that continues to shoot itself in the foot on a near-monthly basis.

cuppacoffee
12-11-2006, 07:45 PM
Because David Carr told them not to. :rolleyes: The answer for everything that ails us!

jerek..I fear you and I are a shrinking minority on this message board.

Too bad Carr doesn't also play defense, then the haters could blame him for letting Young run 36 yds for the winning score.

The real cowards here are message board posters who hide behind their anonymity ..:hides:.. and call others cowards.


:coffee:

hollywood_texan
12-11-2006, 08:43 PM
jerek..I fear you and I are a shrinking minority on this message board.

Too bad Carr doesn't also play defense, then the haters could blame him for letting Young run 36 yds for the winning score.

The real cowards here are message board posters who hide behind their anonymity ..:hides:.. and call others cowards.


:coffee:

The way to win football is scoring points. The Texans have a hard time doing that, which puts the defense in a tough position the entire game. A great example is when the Texans had the last possession in the 4 quarter and chose to play for the OT.

The single best way to improve your chances of scoring points, is changing the QB. The Texans can change everything on offense except Carr, and oh by the way they have except for David Carr and Andre Johnson, and we could very easily have the same results and excuses.

No one is blaming Carr for the defense, but I think they do blame Carr for not scoring enough points to put the defense in a better position.

Who relies more on who on the Texans, the defense or the offense?

I think we all know the answer, but then we get the "well" and here come the Carr excuses.

Koolbrz
12-11-2006, 09:06 PM
Let me start this by saying I am not a Carr hater. I have supported him his entire career with the Texans. But this morning on 610 he was asked about taking a knee with 53 seconds left in the game. He said Kubiak asked him what he thought and he responded with "It's up to you coach." Then he proceeded to ramble on that the Titans were getting a good rush all day and if he dropped back he would be on the goal line and blah, blah, blah. This pissed me off. Would VY or any other great QB have that attitude? No, they would WANT the ball and take a chance to win the game. I'm through with Carr now. He is a loser and always will be. Kubiak can't make him have heart.

In all honesty, Carr is damned if he does and damed if he dont. Too many things could have gone wrong backed up against our own goalline like that. I feel it was the right thing to do. Dont get me wrong, I would have loved to have seen an attempt to get some points on the board, but with this offense do you really think that they could have moved the ball...I Dont Think So!!! They would have come after him fast and hard possibly causing a trunover that might have gone for a score the other way. Then everyone would be dogging Carr and Kubes for going for it. Like i said they are damned if they do and damned if they dont.

hollywood_texan
12-11-2006, 09:21 PM
In all honesty, Carr is damned if he does and damed if he dont. Too many things could have gone wrong backed up against our own goalline like that. I feel it was the right thing to do. Dont get me wrong, I would have loved to have seen an attempt to get some points on the board, but with this offense do you really think that they could have moved the ball...I Dont Think So!!! They would have come after him fast and hard possibly causing a trunover that might have gone for a score the other way. Then everyone would be dogging Carr and Kubes for going for it. Like i said they are damned if they do and damned if they dont.

Considering everything you wrote above, we probably have two or more years of these type of seasons because they can't build leads and they can't close out the tight ones.

ojthecat
12-11-2006, 10:20 PM
Our OL is not the problem with the team. That has been the excuse for 5 years running. We need more depth so you can survive through inevitable injuries, but so does everyone.

there is nothing wrong with rooting for your home team, in fact that is what it means to be a 'fan'. However, when people believe and support a player's production or a team's decisions for the sole reason that they happen to play for the hometeam, THAT is a homer. That is just my opinion of course. I am a fan just like you but I refuse to praise and support moves that have created an inferior product that continues to shoot itself in the foot on a near-monthly basis.

First I totally disagree with you on the O-line. They are our biggest problem. We can not pass protect and they can not hold blocks. If you watch Eric Winston's play at right tackle you will see that he can not handle an overload to his side. Almost always the protection schemes would be to take the player on the inside however he apears lost and confused when this happens. Probably just the speed of the game for a rookie but that is a fact and opposing teams know this. Our left tackle has bad legs and can not handle speed rushers on the outside. Knowing this our coaching staff has had to cut down the number of 7 step drops to a minumum and for them to be effective we use them primarly on first and second down with a quick read to the primary and then check down.

Secondly I did not say Carr was a great QB, I did not say that he is even an average QB what I did say was that we have bigger needs on this team than replacing the QB.

Lastly are saying that if we only change our QB then we will become winners in the NFL?

If that is what you are saying then I disagree with you.

bah007
12-11-2006, 10:41 PM
Let me start this by saying I am not a Carr hater. I have supported him his entire career with the Texans. But this morning on 610 he was asked about taking a knee with 53 seconds left in the game. He said Kubiak asked him what he thought and he responded with "It's up to you coach." Then he proceeded to ramble on that the Titans were getting a good rush all day and if he dropped back he would be on the goal line and blah, blah, blah. This pissed me off. Would VY or any other great QB have that attitude? No, they would WANT the ball and take a chance to win the game. I'm through with Carr now. He is a loser and always will be. Kubiak can't make him have heart.

The only QB in the entire world that I would trust in that situation is Peyton Manning.

At first I wanted to go for it, but then I thought about it and it really made sense to just sit on it.

Yea he sure is a loser for letting the coach make the decision, since that is what he is paid to do.

With our offense there is no way we would have made it far enough to get a field goal.

So we would be risking a game-ending turnover for nothing.

TemeculaMike
12-11-2006, 10:47 PM
I didn't hear the comments (signal doesn't travel that far); and
I didn't watch the game (wasn't broadcast in my area), but I think many of you don't understand a QB's role in that situation.

First, the QB's job is to communicate with the coaches things he sees happening that might not be apparent from the coach's perspective in the heat of the moment. (Sounds like Carr did that)

Second, every NFL team has plays that is can call based on field position. Something like half your playbook gets thrown out the window when you are playing within 10 yards of an endzone. When a QB is within 8 yards of his endzone, the QB has to be especially careful that he doesn't take a sack and the o-line has to play very clean because a holding penalty that occurs in the endzone will result in a safety.

Clearly, the Texans went conservative fearing any sort of negative play would win the game for the Titans. Was it wrong? Maybe or maybe not.

I can tell you all with absolute, unwaivering certainty that if the Chargers were in exactly the same situation, Marty "Mr. Conservative" Shottenheimer would play it exactly the same way.

I would also expect my QB to give the coach the "straight skinny" and not make up some BS about how he thinks he can defy the odds and drive 60+ yards in 53 seconds. Let me remind y'all this is the Texans and not the Colts/Chargers/Bengals/Chiefs.

HoustonFan
12-11-2006, 10:56 PM
Oh my goodness. I'm mad that I mssed that interview now. For me, I was more upset at his post game interview, totally brushing the loss off, giving the Titans and VY their props, and saying how the media will have a great time w/ this one. I lost some respect for Carr yesterday, but to leavit to the coach w/ 0:53 secs left in the 4th and you down it to kill the clock and take it to OT...... :tearup: I think it has become painfully apparent that he doesn't want to win. Maybe all of those sacks have made him delirious, or maybe he's thinking even if he's let go he's still paid.

McNair, I hope you're watching your QB. Afterall, this is the guy you made face of the franchise. I'm sure you want to win, much like the rest of us in Houston. Vince Young obviousy wants to win and came back home and showed it. Can't say that for Carr right about now.

yourfavoritetexan42
12-11-2006, 11:12 PM
"Carr is retarded!!! 88 yards with 53 seconds left???!!! omg whyd he go for it...his o line sucks and AJ was dropping balls left and right. We need a qb that isnt stupid"


that is what everyone would be saying in this topic had he done the alternative...guarantee it...

Honoring Earl 34
12-11-2006, 11:17 PM
I'm thinking if its tied ... you might just need a field goal to win .

ib4texans
12-11-2006, 11:45 PM
I thought I was on the Houston Texans IMB. I think I accidentally logged on to Monster.com Is everybody on this board looking to be a new HC or an 8 million dollar a year QB?

bah007
12-11-2006, 11:48 PM
Let me start this by saying I am not a Carr hater. I have supported him his entire career with the Texans. But this morning on 610 he was asked about taking a knee with 53 seconds left in the game. He said Kubiak asked him what he thought and he responded with "It's up to you coach." Then he proceeded to ramble on that the Titans were getting a good rush all day and if he dropped back he would be on the goal line and blah, blah, blah. This pissed me off. Would VY or any other great QB have that attitude? No, they would WANT the ball and take a chance to win the game. I'm through with Carr now. He is a loser and always will be. Kubiak can't make him have heart.

You guys are ridiculous sometimes.

David Carr could help your grandma carry her groceries to her car & you would still find something to complain about.

This guy just cant win with some fans no matter how hard he tries.

ib4texans
12-12-2006, 12:08 AM
Nope!
I don't have NEARLY a high enough "completion percentage" to be an 8 million dollar baby.


Don't worry I'm sure that if you continue to show improvement, you will have lots of supporters that are pulling for you to make it big. LOL

Titan "Tack" Fan
12-12-2006, 01:13 AM
"Up to you coach"

...no comment...

ib4texans
12-12-2006, 01:15 AM
I thought if anyone could understand obeying their superiors it would be you. I guess I was wrong about you, since you expect Carr to question his coach's decision.


I'm sure DC is up to challenging his coach, he may get the great confidedence boost of being benched for a whole game for being insubordinate. "No way coach, I can get us 60 yards. All I have to do is get it to AJ, he can get the ball stripped when he goes up for it.Then we'll get a defensive FR on the next play. Simple"

phan1
12-12-2006, 04:34 AM
Honestly, I hardly know of ANY team that would have tried to go down the field in that situation. The only guy I can think of who would do that would be Peyton Manning. Any other team would have downed the ball and took it to overtime. I don't even think Belicheck (sp?) would have let Brady throw the ball in that situation.

You are on your own 7 yd line,; you have 53 seconds and NO TIMEOUTS. It's highly unlikely you're going to make it into field-goal range anyway. The Oline hasn't been protecting well, and plus, the Titans still have a timeout to get the ball back in good field position if you throw incompletions. And did even mention that their kicker kicked a 60 yarder to win the game a week ago?

I am dissappointed that David did not have more than a decent game today. He needed to play special yesterday and didn't. But I am not dissappointed with that call at the end of regulation.

eric138
12-12-2006, 09:03 AM
...Any other team would have downed the ball and took it to overtime. I don't even think Belicheck (sp?) would have let Brady throw the ball in that situation.


Brady?? What a joke. He is legally stealing from New England and he needs to be ran out of town. 12/25 and 66 passing yards with no TDs. And top it off with 4 sacks and 2 fumbles. Get real. My mom could do better than that.

They need to send him packing. wuss.

Honoring Earl 34
12-12-2006, 09:05 AM
Brady head up for Carr .

wwffan99tx
12-12-2006, 09:10 AM
Honestly, I hardly know of ANY team that would have tried to go down the field in that situation. The only guy I can think of who would do that would be Peyton Manning. Any other team would have downed the ball and took it to overtime. I don't even think Belicheck (sp?) would have let Brady throw the ball in that situation.

You are on your own 7 yd line,; you have 53 seconds and NO TIMEOUTS. It's highly unlikely you're going to make it into field-goal range anyway. The Oline hasn't been protecting well, and plus, the Titans still have a timeout to get the ball back in good field position if you throw incompletions. And did even mention that their kicker kicked a 60 yarder to win the game a week ago?

I am dissappointed that David did not have more than a decent game today. He needed to play special yesterday and didn't. But I am not dissappointed with that call at the end of regulation.


Actually, in Brady's first year of starting and in the SUPER BOWL he did exactly that.

Warner completed an 18-yard pass to Az-Zahir Hakim and an 11-yard pass to Yo Murphy before connecting on a 26-yard touchdown pass to Proehl with 1:30 left to tie the game.

Operating without any timeouts, Brady completed three short passes to J.R. Redmond to reach the Patriots' 41 with 33 seconds left. After an imcompletion, Brady completed 23- and 16-yard passes to Troy Brown and Jermaine Wiggins, respectively, to reach the Rams' 30, and then spiked the ball with seven seconds remaining.

kikiscafe
12-12-2006, 09:21 AM
... But this morning on 610 he was asked about taking a knee with 53 seconds left in the game. He said Kubiak asked him what he thought and he responded with "It's up to you coach." ....

Winners always want the ball when the game is on the line....:thud:

Lucky
12-12-2006, 10:48 AM
Operating without any timeouts, Brady completed three short passes to J.R. Redmond to reach the Patriots' 41 with 33 seconds left. After an imcompletion, Brady completed 23- and 16-yard passes to Troy Brown and Jermaine Wiggins, respectively, to reach the Rams' 30, and then spiked the ball with seven seconds remaining.[/B]
And prior to that drive, John Madden was saying how the Pats should just run out the clock and play for overtime. Priceless.

John Madden...the most overrated announcer in the history of broadcasting.

bckey
12-12-2006, 11:16 AM
we need a new qb.. one whose not afraid to step up and take chances.. I can't imagine any qb not being eager to go for a win with the game tied and 50 seconds still left. I was watching the cowboys game( even though that game turned out to be the massacre of texas stadium) and even before the game turned into a rout, i remember it was 4th and 8 and Romo started signaling to Parcells he wanted to go for it. That's the attitude we need, that's the attitude of a winner and a leader. And David Carr is neither a winner or a leader.

The problem is that we passed on VY and M. Leinart when we had the chance to get one of them. This years qb class doesn't look nearly as good. Just think. We could have had VY and D. Ryans. I like Mario Williams alot and I think he will be a great de. I just think the need at qb was greater than the need at de since we had already signed Weaver. Unfortunately management had already decided to give Carr 60 million to stick around. The Texans have made alot of very questionable decisions in their 5 year history. The first 2 were the hiring of Capers and Casserly.

dtran04
12-12-2006, 11:21 AM
The ONLY thing I would have done was at least give Dayne or Lundy a couple shots to break one off. Passes would be too risky and stop the clock, making us punt, which Stanley would proceed to shank and Pacman would inevitably run it back to FG range. Everyone on the messageboard than proceeds to call Kubiak stupid.

Yankee_In_TX
12-12-2006, 12:10 PM
And what if Carr had been sacked in the end zone? Would the same folks have defended the attempt to score?

I doubt it.

They had a 1 point lead at that point and it made good sense to take the knee...IMO.

I'm not debating whether we need a new QB or not.

But almost ANY NFL team would have taken a knee. Even the Colts w/ Manning.

But take into a account a team that has struggled on offense and has a tendency to fumble, do you really want them taking a snap?

With NO time outs left?

When our pass plays probably average what, 5 yards on the season?

Honoring Earl 34
12-12-2006, 09:47 PM
I heard a talk show about the NBA and they were talking about Bobby Night's players at Indiana . The host said ... You know they're going to be mentally tough . The expert said he thinks its the exact oppisite ... why would a mentally tough person put up with all of Nights crap .

Why would Carr just take all the BS and not explode about the lack of everything .

kocian1
12-12-2006, 09:55 PM
we need a new qb.. one whose not afraid to step up and take chances.. I can't imagine any qb not being eager to go for a win with the game tied and 50 seconds still left. I was watching the cowboys game( even though that game turned out to be the massacre of texas stadium) and even before the game turned into a rout, i remember it was 4th and 8 and Romo started signaling to Parcells he wanted to go for it. That's the attitude we need, that's the attitude of a winner and a leader. And David Carr is neither a winner or a leader.

Romo wasn't standing with his back seven yards to his own end zone either.

NJTexanFan
12-12-2006, 10:17 PM
Winners always want the ball when the game is on the line....:thud:

LOL i wasn't going to comment on this but i realized that that is a line out of any given sunday good one

Hulk75
12-12-2006, 10:18 PM
I heard a talk show about the NBA and they were talking about Bobby Night's players at Indiana . The host said ... You know they're going to be mentally tough . The expert said he thinks its the exact oppisite ... why would a mentally tough person put up with all of Nights crap .

Why would Carr just take all the BS and not explode about the lack of everything .

"Grips go up not down"........... http://www.follow-me-now.de/assets/images/Saving_Private_Ryan-2.jpg

bah007
12-12-2006, 10:31 PM
LOL i wasn't going to comment on this but i realized that that is a line out of any given sunday good one

That line is actually from the Replacements.

It's what Gene Hackman says to Keanu Reaves.

devo-x
12-12-2006, 11:05 PM
I seem to remember the OL (while not great) playing well with Sage as QB during the first Titans game :stirpot: It didn't look like the same team!

I think Carr needs a new location behind a veteran QB to learn from :hides:

TK_Gamer
12-13-2006, 02:21 AM
I don't know of a single QB with any kind of fire in his belly that would have said no thank you to an opprotunity to drive his team to get into position to win...And I don't know about the 88 yard thing...all we needed was a field goal....

If David Carr said no thanks to that, then he didn't have faith in himself or the team...Had I been one of his offensive lineman, I would have looked at him like WTF did he just say ? I can understand Kubiak wanting to be conservative, but as a player for you to not want an opprotunity like that is pretty weak, lame, and sorry....JMO

sorry Carr is a gentleman, he is also a football player with great work ethic, dont believe me, bring up what every notable football personallity has said about him most recently Kubiak. you really think he is gonna make his coach look bad by saying he wanted to go for it? has he ever 2nd guessed his coach this year even after being called out in the national press? no he wouldnt do that and I think you all know that. if you wanna blame a key moment on the loss, blame the blitz play on 3 rd down to allow young the touchdown.

texaslifter
12-13-2006, 03:28 AM
thats ridiculous... its not undermining someone to answer a question with yah, gimme the ball coach. it happens all the time a player wanting the ball and the coach deciding what to do. the fact is, winners want the ball. some losers do too, but thats another story