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TemeculaMike
12-08-2006, 09:10 PM
I have watched the Texans and its fans for some time. I attended the first game the Texans played the Chargers (@ Qualcomm) and watched my team sack rookie David Carr - 9 times.

1. Games are won in the trenches. When the big uglies on the line don't play well - all is lost.

2. A QB gains confidence when his o-line keeps him from getting knocked on his butt. Case in point - Drew Brees was considered a bust in 2003, with a passer rating of 67.5, the next year (2004) he blew the socks off the NFL with a passer rating of 104.8. The difference? In 2003, the Charger o-line gave up 29 sacks and Brees was constently under pressure - in 2004 they only gave up 21 and he was less hurried on many of his throws (4th best in the NFL). FYI - Houston gave up 36 and 49 sacks in 2003 and 2004, respectfully.

3. You establish the run first - it opens up the passing game.

4. "Offense sells tickets - Defense wins Championships" (technically, I learned this from Vince Lombardi and not the Chargers per se - OK, I also learned it from the 2000 Ravens, 2001, 2003, 2004 Patriots, 2002 Bucs, and 2005 Steelers). The Houston Texans defense was ranked = 31st (2003); 19th (2004); 30th (2005); and 29th (2006 to date). Anybody want to guess what year the Texans won its most games (which was 7)? Hint - after golfing players will go to the ___ hole.

5. Field goal kickers are responsible for at least 3-4 wins or loses per year.

6. A defense that can apply pressure on the quarterback can turn a great QB into something mediocre.

Its disheartening watching your team flounder - I know, my Chargers were the league laughing stock for years. We had the 1st round draft pick, Eli Manning told us he would rather go to law school than play for the Chargers. That really sucked.

You have in Gary Kubiak an excellent offensive mind that was responsible for fielding a Denver offense that regularly kicked the butt of my team. Glad he's gone to Houston.

I also know this, David Carr is a decent QB that can be a great QB if given the chance. The Houston Texans have done a horrible job of building an O-Line that can protect their QB. Casserly should have been fired years ago. Once your GM figures out that games are won-and-lost in the trenches, things will turn around.

Sportsfan
12-08-2006, 09:16 PM
Good post, i pretty much agree w/everything you said.

texflex513
12-08-2006, 09:20 PM
Nice post! Good to here (educated) opinions from fans of other teams on the outside looking in. It gives us a little food for thought.

TexansLucky13
12-08-2006, 09:26 PM
Excellent Post!

P.S. - I would give my left leg for LT.....

texflex513
12-08-2006, 09:28 PM
Excellent Post!

P.S. - I would give my left leg for LT.....
And i would give my right leg for LT Marcus Mcneil right about now lol.

TexansLucky13
12-08-2006, 09:29 PM
And i would give my right leg for LT Marcus Mcneil right about now lol.

Nice! :cool:

thunderkyss
12-08-2006, 09:35 PM
So basically what you are saying, is that the Cardinals, the Cowboys, the Dolphins, & the Jaguars screwed up, and should have kept playing Warner(a QB who has shown that he can play in this league...... a league MVP, and SuperBowl winning QB), Bledsoe(a HOFer, career stats put him in company of the best of the best, an AFC Championship winning QB, hand picked by one of the more talented talent scouts ever.....), Dante Culpepper(Electrifying Arm, solid performer, proven, NFC Championship playing QB, multiple probowls), Leftwhich... well, he's not as accomplished, but he's proven that he has what it takes to win in this league....

& SanDiego..... they should have kept Rivers on the Bench, and continued to play Brees... they really goofed up drafting Rivers in the first place, since they already had Brees.

yeah, I gotcha...... every other team in the league can go ahead and waste their time changing QBs...... but not us.... we should continue "chopping wood" with David Carr, because he is all that.

TemeculaMike
12-08-2006, 09:37 PM
Excellent Post!

P.S. - I would give my left leg for LT.....

The only other back in the NFL that I would compare to LT is Reggie Bush. Living in So.Cal and being a USC fan, I watched every USC game he played in. Bush is the same type of threat that LT poses. The advantage the Saints have is they can rely on McAllister and use Bush to create mismatch problems. Bush is currently on pace to have more total yards (rush/receive) than LT had his first year.

YoungTexanFan
12-08-2006, 09:39 PM
This is one of the best and most accurate outsider inputs we have ever seen on this MB. You must have done some serious research and actually understand the building process as a Chargers fan. It makes you think though, you just had the #1 overall pick and now are a playoff team...how much did C and C screw us over? Good foundation for your team and good luck. Our MB would bennifit from your presence and I hope you post more often.

TemeculaMike
12-08-2006, 09:49 PM
So basically what you are saying, is that the Cardinals, the Cowboys, the Dolphins, & the Jaguars screwed up, and should have kept playing Warner(a QB who has shown that he can play in this league...... a league MVP, and SuperBowl winning QB), Bledsoe(a HOFer, career stats put him in company of the best of the best, an AFC Championship winning QB, hand picked by one of the more talented talent scouts ever.....), Dante Culpepper(Electrifying Arm, solid performer, proven, NFC Championship playing QB, multiple probowls), Leftwhich... well, he's not as accomplished, but he's proven that he has what it takes to win in this league....

No. All of those QB's cited (30+) had lost their mobility and suffered diminished skills. All of the teams you cited gained a slightly better QB, except for the Cowboys who got a really nice QB. Of course, moving to a new QB only really works when the QB has a few years in the system (i.e. Romo, Rivers, Brady, etc.)

& SanDiego..... they should have kept Rivers on the Bench, and continued to play Brees... they really goofed up drafting Rivers in the first place, since they already had Brees.

I think its safe to say, Brees would have worked out great for the Chargers if we would have kept him. The concerns regarding his damaged shoulder were overstated. The team might have been challenging the 72' Dolphins with Brees behind center - especially with this year's o-line.

yeah, I gotcha...... every other team in the league can go ahead and waste their time changing QBs...... but not us.... we should continue "chopping wood" with David Carr, because he is all that.

Carr hasn't ever been given the chance to be "all that." I will say this - with your o-line, Vince Young would have been a good selection because he can at least run away from linebackers. Michael Vick would work. All other QB's would have suffered the same fate and your team would not have improved. If Houston is going to ignore the vital/critical importance of their O-Line then you will be "chopping wood" at the bottom of the standing for a long time.

Scooter
12-08-2006, 10:23 PM
2. A QB gains confidence when his o-line keeps him from getting knocked on his butt. Case in point - Drew Brees was considered a bust in 2003, with a passer rating of 67.5, the next year (2004) he blew the socks off the NFL with a passer rating of 104.8. The difference? In 2003, the Charger o-line gave up 29 sacks and Brees was constently under pressure - in 2004 they only gave up 21 and he was less hurried on many of his throws (4th best in the NFL). FYI - Houston gave up 36 and 49 sacks in 2003 and 2004, respectfully.

thanks for the perspective mike, very well written and absolutely correct. i quote this section because i've watched quite a bit of the chargers and i've used them as a point of reference on more than one occassion because the 03 and 04 seasons you're comparing are complete opposites ... in 03 yall went 4-12 and the very next year yall went 12-4 and brees goes to the probowl. the stats you mention are good but i like WHY yall had those stats. in 2004 yall replaced 4 starters on your offensive line from 03 that i saw. the texans have nickeled and dimed the offensive line since their inception, we have yet to make drastic changes to address the most gaping hole i've probably ever seen in football. it took us FIVE YEARS to get two bonafied starters on the line ... and one of those is an injured rookie. the texans wont succeed and david carr wont stand a chance until that area is the center of sweeping changes.

phan1
12-08-2006, 10:29 PM
My concern is that sometimes, you have to MAKE things work. We are the Houston Texans here; we don't have a running game that's going to be there every week. When it's not there, SOMEBODY has to make a play, and those somebodies are Carr and AJ. And usually, one of them is making the other look bad, wheather it be AJ's drops or Carrs fumbles.

I don't know how you guys were able to get a bunch of scrubs together on that Oline to come together and play good football (this was before McNiel too), but I'm very envious. We've been trying for years to put this Oline together with lots of cash spent; you guys just picked up some bodies and made it work! But I guess LT can make any line look decent. :)

My concern is that if things aren't working the way they're supposed to, can Carr step up and make a play? Can Carr do something that's going to allow us to win the game? I sure hope he does on Sunday...

shinerbock_girl
12-08-2006, 10:30 PM
I have watched the Texans and its fans for some time. I attended the first game the Texans played the Chargers (@ Qualcomm) and watched my team sack rookie David Carr - 9 times.

1. Games are won in the trenches. When the big uglies on the line don't play well - all is lost.

2. A QB gains confidence when his o-line keeps him from getting knocked on his butt. Case in point - Drew Brees was considered a bust in 2003, with a passer rating of 67.5, the next year (2004) he blew the socks off the NFL with a passer rating of 104.8. The difference? In 2003, the Charger o-line gave up 29 sacks and Brees was constently under pressure - in 2004 they only gave up 21 and he was less hurried on many of his throws (4th best in the NFL). FYI - Houston gave up 36 and 49 sacks in 2003 and 2004, respectfully.

3. You establish the run first - it opens up the passing game.

4. "Offense sells tickets - Defense wins Championships" (technically, I learned this from Vince Lombardi and not the Chargers per se - OK, I also learned it from the 2000 Ravens, 2001, 2003, 2004 Patriots, 2002 Bucs, and 2005 Steelers). The Houston Texans defense was ranked = 31st (2003); 19th (2004); 30th (2005); and 29th (2006 to date). Anybody want to guess what year the Texans won its most games (which was 7)? Hint - after golfing players will go to the ___ hole.

5. Field goal kickers are responsible for at least 3-4 wins or loses per year.

6. A defense that can apply pressure on the quarterback can turn a great QB into something mediocre.

Its disheartening watching your team flounder - I know, my Chargers were the league laughing stock for years. We had the 1st round draft pick, Eli Manning told us he would rather go to law school than play for the Chargers. That really sucked.

You have in Gary Kubiak an excellent offensive mind that was responsible for fielding a Denver offense that regularly kicked the butt of my team. Glad he's gone to Houston.

I also know this, David Carr is a decent QB that can be a great QB if given the chance. The Houston Texans have done a horrible job of building an O-Line that can protect their QB. Casserly should have been fired years ago. Once your GM figures out that games are won-and-lost in the trenches, things will turn around.


WOW, thank you for having such a great post!!!!

thunderkyss
12-08-2006, 10:42 PM
No. All of those QB's cited (30+) had lost their mobility and suffered diminished skills. All of the teams you cited gained a slightly better QB, except for the Cowboys who got a really nice QB. Of course, moving to a new QB only really works when the QB has a few years in the system (i.e. Romo, Rivers, Brady, etc.)

I don't think so. Warner wasn't a spring chicken when he won the superbowl. If Arizona had an offensive line, he'd still be able to do the same things he did back when.

Bledsoe has never been mobile, and he's shown to be able to perform as well as he ever has if he's given the protection you & every other Cali-fan want to give David Carr.

Is Leftwich 30 yet??

Culpepper??

What our problem is people look at rushing yards and think that makes David mobile, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Those mobile QBs would more accurately be described as elusive, something David does not have. David is athletic...... he's got speed..... but he isn't elusive like Harrington, Romo, Garrard, or Sage.

Carr hasn't ever been given the chance to be "all that." I will say this - with your o-line, Vince Young would have been a good selection because he can at least run away from linebackers. Michael Vick would work. All other QB's would have suffered the same fate and your team would not have improved. If Houston is going to ignore the vital/critical importance of their O-Line then you will be "chopping wood" at the bottom of the standing for a long time.

I'm not even asking him to run away from linebackers........ just chunk the ball into the stands if your guy isn't open. & when he is, when it's time to make the play, drop the ball into his hands, where he doesn't have to reach back & fight the DB for the ball, or throw it to his outside shoulder when help is coming from the inside, or when you throw the fade, throw it to the Pylon.... at the back of the endzone.

no, Carr may not have been given the chance to be "all that" but he's been given a chance just as good as Batch, Harrington, Couch, Ryan Leaf, etc.. etc..

When exactly do you think the Chargers turned things around??

according to your draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teams/SD)you don't believe in taking OL talent earlier than the third round, with the exception of this years second round pick MM.....

If we follow your "bluePrint", after drafting Carr with the #1 overall, we should have drafted a QB with the second pick of the draft 4 years later.. kinda like what you did by drafting Brees 4 years after you drafted Leaf.... then three years later, drafting another QB with the #1 overall....

From the time you drafted Leaf, till the time you drafted Rivers(7 years), you spent 2 first day pick on your offensive line, are we to think you were ignoring your offensive line talent in that time period??

I think you're right, and we should have been following your example. Draft a qB with the #1 overall(in your case, the #2 overall) then 4 years later, draft a second round QB, then three years later, another QB with the #1 overall.

Goldeagle
12-08-2006, 10:43 PM
My friends in DC sure would like to have Carr lol.

Funny how the ***** Houston fan (Carr haters) dont see football as a team sport. Yet everyone else in the Country gets it.

Roughnecks
12-08-2006, 10:50 PM
I agree with all those about it being a great post and many more returns th the MB looking forward to it. I was thinking the D looks pretty good this year and should be good next year so why not draft offense heavy next year with at lease a free agent on the defense(secondary). I think Coach Kubes will sit down after the season and take a long look at this season but not so much looking at the players but his self and seeing where he can improve bottom line win or lose I am Texans fan. Something to think about the Seahawks was not very good for years in a weak division but they made it to the Super bowl on their defense and a good oline they lose a key piece of their line and they are not as good win the trench's you have a chance.

thunderkyss
12-08-2006, 11:34 PM
My friends in DC sure would like to have Carr lol.

Funny how the ***** Houston fan (Carr haters) dont see football as a team sport. Yet everyone else in the Country gets it.

yeah.....

Surely the Pats would be 9-3 had they let Brady go to Seattle......

INdy would be 10-2 had they sent Peyton to Arizona.....

Baltimore would be 9-3 had Mcnair gone to Cleveland...

Dallas would be 8-4 if Romo was still on the bench....

New Orleans would definitely be 8-4 if Aaron had not insulted the owner.....

Sometimes, it doesn't matter who the QB is.. Chicago, Arizona, Houston...

Sometimes it does.... Dallas, Miami, Jacksonville.....

Sometimes the backup is pretty darn good KC, Seattle

bottom line, this is the NFL..... all men aren't created equal, and their paychecks usually show it.

eriadoc
12-09-2006, 12:05 AM
I don't know how you guys were able to get a bunch of scrubs together on that Oline to come together and play good football (this was before McNiel too), but I'm very envious.

I believe his name was Hudson Houck, who has since moved on to another team (Falcons?). His O-line principles remain in play in SD, however. Texans should have done everything in their power to hire him when he left SD for the other team.

TemeculaMike
12-09-2006, 12:20 AM
... What our problem is people look at rushing yards and think that makes David mobile, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Those mobile QBs would more accurately be described as elusive, something David does not have. David is athletic...... he's got speed..... but he isn't elusive like Harrington, Romo, Garrard, or Sage.
***
no, Carr may not have been given the chance to be "all that" but he's been given a chance just as good as Batch, Harrington, Couch, Ryan Leaf, etc.. etc..

When exactly do you think the Chargers turned things around??

according to your draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teams/SD)you don't believe in taking OL talent earlier than the third round, with the exception of this years second round pick MM.....

***

From the time you drafted Leaf, till the time you drafted Rivers(7 years), you spent 2 first day pick on your offensive line, are we to think you were ignoring your offensive line talent in that time period??

I think you're right, and we should have been following your example. Draft a qB with the #1 overall(in your case, the #2 overall) then 4 years later, draft a second round QB, then three years later, another QB with the #1 overall.

Leftwich was injured (making him play like a 30 year old) :rolleyes:

The one thing Warner had was a good o-line and one of the best backs at the time, Marshall Faulk. The Cardinal line is a joke (just ask the E.James).

Here's the thing. I think essentially we agree with the impact of the things the Texans have done wrong. The difference is I believe Carr's problems are caused by the lack of support he has gotten from the organization.

Houston has never had a good defense. Its a totally different ball game when your defense causes the opponent to go 3 and out 5 times in a row. A good defense allows the offense to get on a roll and only play half the field. How many times have the Houston Texans started their drives at their 40+?

Why are the Chargers where they are at right now? Simple - they trade their high draft picks for players and more picks. The Chargers held the No.1 pick a few years ago and traded it to the Falcons. The trade resulted in a kid named LT and wide receiver named Dwight and two more picks in the 2002 draft.

Once again in 2004, the Chargers traded their top pick (Manning) for a later pick (Rivers), FG Kicker Nate Keading and a few more draft picks the following year (Merriman) and (Oben in a trade for one of the picks).

The Chargers are big believers in acquiring o-linemen in later rounds (4,5,6,7) to see if any work out. Our new tackle McNeil is a monster and an exception to the rule.

The Chargers really started to turn the corner when Wade Philips revamped the defense and installed 3-4 and our O-Line was solidified with good players. The year was 2004. We also got lucky with a few finds like Antonio Gates (undrafted basketball player).

Lets get something straight. Drafting multiple QB's is not the answer. Leaf was a huge mistake - the man was a childish *****; Brees was a good 2nd round draft pick and a franchise QB. Rivers was also a good pick and franchise QB. Truth be told, right now, Brees is the better QB and Rivers will grow into the roll. Its just a good thing we have LT and an excellent o-line to take the pressure off Rivers. Oh ya ... having one of the NFL's top defenses is also a good thing.

TemeculaMike
12-09-2006, 12:24 AM
I believe his name was Hudson Houck, who has since moved on to another team (Falcons?). His O-line principles remain in play in SD, however. Texans should have done everything in their power to hire him when he left SD for the other team.

He went to Miami. After Houck left our o-line play dropped and the team missed the playoffs last year. This year, we replaced the o-line coach that replaced Hauck with two o-line coaches. The o-line has played very well this year.

TexanSam
12-09-2006, 12:45 AM
And i would give my right leg for LT Marcus Mcneil right about now lol.

I'd rather not do it, but I'd give my left nut for McNeil and LT.

Kaiser Toro
12-09-2006, 06:26 AM
Brees was drafted in the second round while Carr was picked #1. That was the Texans problem and the Chargers gain from a short term stand point and definitely long term as that selection has paved the way for years of success.

Brees in my opinion has always been a better QB than Carr. He has better pocket presence, players respond to him, he can make many throws, he has better touch on the ball, he is a smarter QB and he is a Native Austinite. ;)

If you have not watched all of the Texans game it is hard for you to see what others who have watched all of the games see. That is unless you are a Fresno fan or family of our wunderkind QB.

tsip
12-09-2006, 09:40 AM
After last year, the :homer: 's had a 'wish' list for their beloved Carr. They wanted an offensive minded/QB 'guru (Kubiak)...they wanted someone with successful experience coaching the OL (Sherman)...they wanted a #2 WR (Moulds)...they wanted some new OL (Spencer/Winston)...etc.

No, everything has not worked out for Carr, but the team has done some things. There is no question that for Carr to have any hope of some kind of play needs an 'entire' new OL that will need years to 'gel' and a 'stable' of all-pro RBs--right? Will that complete the list or is there more?

I've noticed a trend that most of the threads are full of posts by the :homer: 's, with the 'haters' just waiting for the day when their are no more excuses for Carr and he can finally 'strut' his stuff...one poster mentioned '09--is that about right?

TemeculaMike
12-09-2006, 09:48 AM
Brees was drafted in the second round while Carr was picked #1. That was the Texans problem and the Chargers gain from a short term stand point and definitely long term as that selection has paved the way for years of success.

Brees in my opinion has always been a better QB than Carr. He has better pocket presence, players respond to him, he can make many throws, he has better touch on the ball, he is a smarter QB and he is a Native Austinite. ;)

If you have not watched all of the Texans game it is hard for you to see what others who have watched all of the games see. That is unless you are a Fresno fan or family of our wunderkind QB.

I haven't watched many Texans games. Of those games I watched I see rushed passes and a jumpy QB in the backfield that looks like he has no trust in his o-line. When he is given time to make all his reads and step into his throw, the balls seem just about as accurate as any other QB in the league.

Really, the point of my post is not to defend Carr, who may just need a change of scenery, but to point out a good running game makes a decent QB very good because it keeps defenses off-balance. When you add in a decent defense that opposing teams fear, your team has an excellent chance of becoming a playoff contender (exceptions to the rule can always be found).

Vinny
12-09-2006, 09:49 AM
The only other back in the NFL that I would compare to LT is Reggie Bush. Living in So.Cal and being a USC fan, I watched every USC game he played in. Bush is the same type of threat that LT poses. The advantage the Saints have is they can rely on McAllister and use Bush to create mismatch problems. Bush is currently on pace to have more total yards (rush/receive) than LT had his first year. I think most of our fans are in denial about Bush.

Erratic Assassin
12-09-2006, 09:57 AM
I watched my team sack rookie David Carr - 9 times.

1. Games are won in the trenches. When the big uglies on the line don't play well - all is lost.

2. A QB gains confidence when his o-line keeps him from getting knocked on his butt.

3. You establish the run first - it opens up the passing game.

4. "Offense sells tickets - Defense wins Championships"

6. A defense that can apply pressure on the quarterback can turn a great QB into something mediocre.

The Houston Texans have done a horrible job of building an O-Line that can protect their QB.

Casserly should have been fired years ago.

Agree, agree, agree, agree, agree, agree, and agree. You'd probably make a better GM than Casserly made.

infantrycak
12-09-2006, 10:01 AM
The only other back in the NFL that I would compare to LT is Reggie Bush.

The two don't run anything like each other.

Bush is currently on pace to have more total yards (rush/receive) than LT had his first year.

No he isn't and it isn't even close. Bush is on pace to have a total of 1240 yards receiving and rushing. LT had 1603 yds combined his rookie year.

I think most of our fans are in denial about Bush.

Generally true. IMO comparing him to LT is ludicrous but he is a tremendous offensive weapon but a unique one who has to be creatively used. The situation he is in now with Deuce is ideal. It will be interesting to see if the Saints try to keep the two paired.

thunderkyss
12-09-2006, 11:58 AM
The Chargers are big believers in acquiring o-linemen in later rounds (4,5,6,7) to see if any work out. Our new tackle McNeil is a monster and an exception to the rule.

The Texans have shown the same commitment to the offensive line that the Chargers have, and here you are advising us to get first day Tackles & what not...... I'm just saying stop trying to tell us how to build our team, when we've done basically the same things you did.

The Chargers really started to turn the corner when Wade Philips revamped the defense and installed 3-4 and our O-Line was solidified with good players. The year was 2004. We also got lucky with a few finds like Antonio Gates (undrafted basketball player).

Over tha last 8 years, you've spent most of your first day picks on DE....... well, at least defensive players, & QBs..... But you're telling us to hang on to our QB, 5 years after the fact. You didn't have that kind of patience..... no one has. If you were from Oklahoma, or INdiana, I seriously doubt you'd be "rooting" for David Carr.

Lets get something straight. Drafting multiple QB's is not the answer. Leaf was a huge mistake - the man was a childish *****; Brees was a good 2nd round draft pick and a franchise QB. Rivers was also a good pick and franchise QB. Truth be told, right now, Brees is the better QB and Rivers will grow into the roll. Its just a good thing we have LT and an excellent o-line to take the pressure off Rivers. Oh ya ... having one of the NFL's top defenses is also a good thing.

Let's get something straight..... right or wrong, most people believe Brees didn't start playing football until you drafted Phillip Rivers.... the talent you put on your offensive line is compatable to the talent we have...

TexansLucky13
12-09-2006, 12:00 PM
I think most of our fans are in denial about Bush.

Nah, LT is a better passer.

axman40
12-09-2006, 12:50 PM
Nah, LT is a better passer.
I concur LT can throw a pretty pass and any pass that scores 6 is a thing of beauty in my eyes!

:redtowel:

eriadoc
12-09-2006, 02:29 PM
This post seems the same as coachdent just re-worded differently and giving carr the same ol' excuse on the offensive line. I still give my same argument when the Giants game the offense did good and not allowing sacks and gave time for Carr and yet Carr still dink dunk passes constantly. Do you also know that our wide receivers are not happy with DC? WE upgraded everything for DC and yet he still can not produce. Yet when Sage comes in (WITH THE SAME OFFENSE) we score points left and right an example would be the Tennesse game.I swear they say carr haters are the biggest voice, but I think its a tie. I just can not wait till sunday and see who wins.

My personal feel on the situation is that you could take any QB and put them on this team and they would fail. They might perform better than Carr, but they would ultimately fail. On the other hand, you could upgrade the line and Carr would be serviceable - not great, but serviceable. More importantly, upgrading the line would give Carr's successor a much better chance of succeeding, which is all I am interested in. Make no mistake, they are both bad. I happen to think the O-line impacts a lot more on the team than the QB (the trickle-down effect). JMO, but I'm not the first person to suggest that games are won and lost in the trenches.

eriadoc
12-09-2006, 02:31 PM
The Texans have shown the same commitment to the offensive line that the Chargers have ....

I'll have to disagree here. The Chargers had a top-flight O-line coach in Houck. The Texans had Pendry, who did so well he was promoted to OC.

Texan_Bill
12-09-2006, 02:46 PM
I'll have to disagree here. The Chargers had a top-flight O-line coach in Houck. The Texans had Pendry, who did so well he was promoted to OC.

I vote that we never mention his name again..

Man-law??

Tailgate
12-09-2006, 03:11 PM
This post seems the same as coachdent just re-worded differently and giving carr the same ol' excuse on the offensive line. I still give my same argument when the Giants game the offense did good and not allowing sacks and gave time for Carr and yet Carr still dink dunk passes constantly. Do you also know that our wide receivers are not happy with DC? WE upgraded everything for DC and yet he still can not produce. Yet when Sage comes in (WITH THE SAME OFFENSE) we score points left and right an example would be the Tennesse game.I swear they say carr haters are the biggest voice, but I think its a tie. I just can not wait till sunday and see who wins.


True... but when your leading rusher has 43 yards in the game by them not doing anything crazy to stop the run, then you can put extra coverage in the secondary.... FORCING alot of those dinks and dunks.

kingh99
12-09-2006, 03:59 PM
I have watched the Texans and its fans for some time. I attended the first game the Texans played the Chargers (@ Qualcomm) and watched my team sack rookie David Carr - 9 times.

1. Games are won in the trenches. When the big uglies on the line don't play well - all is lost.

2. A QB gains confidence when his o-line keeps him from getting knocked on his butt. Case in point - Drew Brees was considered a bust in 2003, with a passer rating of 67.5, the next year (2004) he blew the socks off the NFL with a passer rating of 104.8. The difference? In 2003, the Charger o-line gave up 29 sacks and Brees was constently under pressure - in 2004 they only gave up 21 and he was less hurried on many of his throws (4th best in the NFL). FYI - Houston gave up 36 and 49 sacks in 2003 and 2004, respectfully.

3. You establish the run first - it opens up the passing game.

4. "Offense sells tickets - Defense wins Championships" (technically, I learned this from Vince Lombardi and not the Chargers per se - OK, I also learned it from the 2000 Ravens, 2001, 2003, 2004 Patriots, 2002 Bucs, and 2005 Steelers). The Houston Texans defense was ranked = 31st (2003); 19th (2004); 30th (2005); and 29th (2006 to date). Anybody want to guess what year the Texans won its most games (which was 7)? Hint - after golfing players will go to the ___ hole.

5. Field goal kickers are responsible for at least 3-4 wins or loses per year.

6. A defense that can apply pressure on the quarterback can turn a great QB into something mediocre.

Its disheartening watching your team flounder - I know, my Chargers were the league laughing stock for years. We had the 1st round draft pick, Eli Manning told us he would rather go to law school than play for the Chargers. That really sucked.

You have in Gary Kubiak an excellent offensive mind that was responsible for fielding a Denver offense that regularly kicked the butt of my team. Glad he's gone to Houston.

I also know this, David Carr is a decent QB that can be a great QB if given the chance. The Houston Texans have done a horrible job of building an O-Line that can protect their QB. Casserly should have been fired years ago. Once your GM figures out that games are won-and-lost in the trenches, things will turn around.

This not entirely true. How do you explain Dallas' turnaround after dumping Bledsoe for Romo?. It's easy to point to one area and say that's it. I think the line is tired of blocking for David Carr. David Carr is a mediocre QB and has nowhere near the touch, accuracy or field vision of Drew Brees. Oh and Brees was a 3rd year player, second year starter when he had that one bad year. How long we going to wait for David to learn defenses? This is year 5. He needs to sit and repair his confidence before leading again. Besides it's all moot, I already chipped in for his rocking chair. He's done. Well he's not done cuz nobody will take him. But he won't be the starter going into camp next year. Or, they might cut him. There's not going to be a trade. Trades are a thing of the past.

infantrycak
12-09-2006, 04:29 PM
Do you also know that our wide receivers are not happy with DC?

No, and neither do you. AJ said he was upset with himself, not Carr. Carr has plenty of problems as it is without making up extra ones.

Big J
12-09-2006, 04:30 PM
Brees was drafted in the second round while Carr was picked #1. That was the Texans problem and the Chargers gain from a short term stand point and definitely long term as that selection has paved the way for years of success.

Brees in my opinion has always been a better QB than Carr. He has better pocket presence, players respond to him, he can make many throws, he has better touch on the ball, he is a smarter QB and he is a Native Austinite. ;)

If you have not watched all of the Texans game it is hard for you to see what others who have watched all of the games see. That is unless you are a Fresno fan or family of our wunderkind QB.

Drew Brees is a good quarterback but he went to Purdue and that sucks.

texan279
12-09-2006, 04:57 PM
LOL so what were those two threads the other day? One said AJ was unhappy and the other was Moulds was unhappy? I read both articles as well. I guess people need to stop posting up BS articles then if that is the case.


This is what AJ said in that article...."It was our worst performance as receivers," Johnson said. "That's frustrating. This is my fourth year here now, and after all (the losses) it kind of wears and tears on you."

Johnson accepted much of the blame, and coach Gary Kubiak said Johnson has to play better for the Texans to win.

"If you look at the games we won, Andre made some special plays in those games," Kubiak said. "When we don't make those plays, we struggle. I just need him to make more of them."

On Monday, Kubiak sat in on meetings with the receivers. Dropped balls and the missed assignments were rehashed. The players were also shown missed plays and yards they left on the field.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4366015.html

The other article about Moulds was from profootballtalk.com...