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dantem
12-08-2006, 03:08 PM
All season David Carr was in the top of the NFL in QB rating, but we were not winning games. Many veteran NFL fans and sports writers analyzed this anomaly and concluded that it was because he didn't have "IT". They could not describe what "IT" was, just that people like Vince Young have it, some kind of magic that makes the team win no matter how well or poorly the QB is playing.

Well, last week against the Raiders, David Carr finally found "IT". He threw for -4 yards, fumbled the ball 3-4 times, got sacked over and over, but through it all, he would not give in. The "IT" was radiating through him like a beacon, lighting his teamís way to victory.

Now the same sports guru's are claiming that the "W" doesnít matter, itís how well the QB plays. Suddenly the "IT" factor is irrelevant.

Over the last week I have done some personal research on QBs that seem to have "IT" and I have discovered What "IT" is. It the presense of the following attributes.


An impenetrable O-Line.
A running back that is a 50 yd threat.
A secondary that does not get burned for 2 identical 60 yd plays almost back to back to the same receiver.
A punter who can kick longer than 25 yard punts.
A FG kicker who does not miss as many as he makes.
A fullback who does not drop the ball every other time he touches it (in critical situations)
A coach that allows the QB to audible when he needs to.
An all pro wide receiver who doesn't drop every pass that hits him in the numbers.
A center that does not step on his foot at least 3 times per game.
And as simple as this sounds, a fan base that actually wants him to succeed. Since David Carr has had to work all year without any of these attributes, Its no wonder we only have 4 wins.

I propose that any NFL QB would have the exact same results as DC if they were on this team with This O-Line.

Sincerely,

Homer <--- which incidentally is not a cut down , it's another word for (Fan)atic.

threetoedpete
12-08-2006, 03:12 PM
Danged funny how much better Troy got once the Cow Polks put a few of the peices you mentioned in your post in place. Kinda weird huh ? Well may not so unusual.

Meloy
12-08-2006, 03:17 PM
exactly.

austintexanite
12-08-2006, 03:19 PM
nice, stand your ground. hope he plays well these last four games

Runner
12-08-2006, 03:20 PM
I've been amazed all afternoon that people can continue to start Carr or Young or "real fan" threads all day, and always start them with fresh ideas that haven't been articulated before.


On second thought, I forget most of what I read in those threads immediately, so maybe it isn't that amazing. :)

Hervoyel
12-08-2006, 03:24 PM
I know where he got IT too.

He bought it on
http://www.pixiland.de/images/work/ebay-logo.jpg

Hervoyel
12-08-2006, 03:26 PM
I've been amazed all afternoon that people can continue to start Carr or Young or "real fan" threads all day, and always start them with fresh ideas that haven't been articulated before.


On second thought, I forget most of what I read in those threads immediately, so maybe it isn't that amazing. :)


I'm moderating a broken record these days. Thread after thread after thread of the same posts. I don't even care who wins this Sunday anymore. I just want the game to get here and get over with.

TXN008
12-08-2006, 03:28 PM
Dantem....So true! I agree with you 100%.
I hope that this weekend DC does an awesome job, but I also hope that the rest of the team shows up as well.
I DO think that we will win this sunday. :texan:

run-david-run
12-08-2006, 03:29 PM
I'm moderating a broken record these days. Thread after thread after thread of the same posts. I don't even care who wins this Sunday anymore. I just want the game to get here and get over with.

Oh, you should care who wins unless you want a year o"we should have drafted VY threads"...wait, nevermind...

Lucky
12-08-2006, 03:29 PM
I've been amazed all afternoon that people can continue to start Carr or Young or "real fan" threads all day, and always start them with fresh ideas that haven't been articulated before.
Um, not all have been so fresh. Some have been merged. I won't be amazed if that continues all afternoon and through the weekend.

My addition to the list above would be:


A coach that will let the QB throw from the shotgun.

threetoedpete
12-08-2006, 03:36 PM
I've been amazed all afternoon that people can continue to start Carr or Young or "real fan" threads all day, and always start them with fresh ideas that haven't been articulated before.


On second thought, I forget most of what I read in those threads immediately, so maybe it isn't that amazing. :)

Well hot shot...you start a thread. I'll read it. Knew it was coming since last April. The team is devoid of tallent. People are frustrated....what did you expect ?

Runner
12-08-2006, 03:37 PM
Um, not all have been so fresh. Some have been merged. I won't be amazed if that continues all afternoon and through the weekend.

My addition to the list above would be:

A coach that will let the QB throw from the shotgun.

To get a complete list, we would need to have:

The threads that complain about complaining threads

sleepwalker
12-08-2006, 03:42 PM
Well said.

El Tejano
12-08-2006, 03:43 PM
One thing you forgot was:

A throwing motion that doesn't lead to an average of 3 batted passes per game.

infantrycak
12-08-2006, 03:43 PM
A coach that will let the QB throw from the shotgun.


During the Denver game the other day the commentator said Shanahan has taken the shotgun out of their game plan as well.

Runner
12-08-2006, 03:51 PM
I find the "will the roof be open" thread enthralling. Really. It is almost new stuff!

kingh99
12-08-2006, 03:53 PM
Danged funny how much better Troy got once the Cow Polks put a few of the peices you mentioned in your post in place. Kinda weird huh ? Well may not so unusual.

David Carr has neither the intellect (and I thought Troy was a male bimbo if there ever was one) nor the arm strength nor the accuracy to carry Troy's clipboard. Maybe he used to havew these attributes but they have either been beaten out of him, his shoulder is mush or he forgot. I watch Carr throw the ball up close half the games and he's not accurate deep or strong armed. He almost got AJ killed during the last home game with his crappy assed post throws. His mechanics may have a lot to do with it but to me it's not up for argument. Dude's physical skills are overrated. Or let's say misused. He can pose like Walter Heisman for the camera but put a 280 line man nearby and he's throwing off his goofy foot underhanded. He doesn't have the guts to finish his throw. Maybe it's because of the beatings. I don't know. Just know I won't be watching next year if he's our starter. He's done in my book.

MightyTExan
12-08-2006, 03:53 PM
Is Kubiak setting up Carr for failure?
Un-inspired play calling, no audibles, same formations, etc....................
It's like Koobs is still in pre-seaon evaluate mode or something...................

MightyTExan
12-08-2006, 03:54 PM
David Carr has neither the intellect (and I thought Troy was a male bimbo if there ever was one) nor the arm strength nor the accuracy to carry Troy's clipboard. Maybe he used to havew these attributes but they have either been beaten out of him, his shoulder is mush or he forgot. I watch Carr throw the ball up close half the games and he's not accurate or strong armed. His mechanics may have a lot to do with it but to me it's not up for argument. Dude's physical skills are overrated. Or let's say misused. He can pose like Walter Heisman for the camera but put a 280 line man nearby and he's throwing off his goofy foot underhanded. He doesn't have the guts to finish his throw. Maybe it's because of the beatings. I don't know. Just know I won't be watching next year if he's our starter. He's done in my book.


He doesn't have the guts to finish his throw.

That has always been my main knock against Carr. Pull the trigger dude!

jerek
12-08-2006, 03:56 PM
I know where he got IT too.

He bought it on
http://www.pixiland.de/images/work/ebay-logo.jpg

You filthy plagarist. My good friend MorKnolle first cracked that joke about Vince Young back in draft times :) Then again someone else probably came up with it first.

And for those who care, he's still alive. Just not on the boards much of late.

threetoedpete
12-08-2006, 03:57 PM
Is Kubiak setting up Carr for failure?
Un-inspired play calling, no audibles, same formations, etc....................
It's like Koobs is still in pre-seaon evaluate mode or something...................

Nah...260 sacks is 260 sacks. the guy is toast. Shell shocked. Battle fatigue. Whatever. Kubes knows too. What's he going to do ? He was gonna beat him over the head with Sage, but the damage is done. Like a good dog gone gun shy. Once they go they're gone. They ain't coming back.

dantem
12-08-2006, 04:07 PM
David Carr has neither the intellect (and I thought Troy was a male bimbo if there ever was one) nor the arm strength nor the accuracy to carry Troy's clipboard. Maybe he used to havew these attributes but they have either been beaten out of him, his shoulder is mush or he forgot. I watch Carr throw the ball up close half the games and he's not accurate deep or strong armed. He almost got AJ killed during the last home game with his crappy assed post throws. His mechanics may have a lot to do with it but to me it's not up for argument. Dude's physical skills are overrated. Or let's say misused. He can pose like Walter Heisman for the camera but put a 280 line man nearby and he's throwing off his goofy foot underhanded. He doesn't have the guts to finish his throw. Maybe it's because of the beatings. I don't know. Just know I won't be watching next year if he's our starter. He's done in my book.

...and Carr drops his head in shame as he discovers his name is not written in the kingh99's book of life.... Then he suddenly remembers the multi-millions he is making and decides that kingh99's book may not be as important as he first thought...

TXN008
12-08-2006, 04:08 PM
Another thread turns into a Carr bashing/hating thread. Just plain pathetic!
It's no wonder our team is so down...their team spirit has been kicked out from under them right along with Carr.
:phone: And don't bother calling me a Carr homer.
----------------------------I'm just a TEXANS HOMER!:fans:

kingh99
12-08-2006, 04:11 PM
...and Carr drops his head in shame as he discovers his name is not written in the kingh99's book of life.... Then he suddenly remembers the multi-millions he is making and decides that kingh99's book may not be as important as he first thought...

Exactly. And it shows every Sunday. I suspects Dave views himself as very successful. He wouldn't be unlike 99% of the rest of us to be content to have it all. The guy I want leading the team is probably motivated by what comes after his playing days are over, not what came before with money and fame. Get what I am saying. Some guys are driven to win and some guys are happy to make it. I imagine VY is more like the former and Dave-o the latter.

dantem
12-08-2006, 04:24 PM
Exactly. And it shows every Sunday. I suspects Dave views himself as very successful. He wouldn't be unlike 99% of the rest of us to be content to have it all. The guy I want leading the team is probably motivated by what comes after his playing days are over, not what came before with money and fame. Get what I am saying. Some guys are driven to win and some guys are happy to make it. I imagine VY is more like the former and Dave-o the latter.

The problem is you can't be sure if you don't know them personally, give VY more than 2 months, maybe he'll turn into a real NFL quarterback, and maybe the rest of the league will watch the rapidly mounting pile of game film on him and start exposing his weaknesses. probably won't know till mid next year. He reminds me of several other now injured running back-wannabe QB's.

Time will tell...

BigWig
12-08-2006, 05:06 PM
Thanks man for a minute there I thought you were gonna tell me he had the plague or something bad.
PS the E-bay post was Classic!!!!

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-08-2006, 05:19 PM
Thanks man for a minute there I thought you were gonna tell me he had the plague or something bad.
PS the E-bay post was Classic!!!!

Carr has Post-Traumatic-Stress disorder from all the shelling he has taken behind our "line".

Carr Bombed
12-08-2006, 05:50 PM
I also have my questions about Carr, but after this week, I hope he throws for like 6 TDS (not going to happen) in this game. So just for one week...ONE WEEK I get to live in a Carr sucks free zone and we can talk about other areas of this team.

TemeculaMike
12-08-2006, 05:51 PM
NEWS FLASH = PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL DECLARED A TEAM SPORT

For Immediate Release

Washington DC - December 8, 2006. Today the U.S. Supreme Court confirmed for the first time that professional football is indeed a team sport. The court, voting 8-1 handed down the decision in the matter of People v. Carr. The news has come as a shock to many fans of professional football, especially those living in Detroit, Oakland and Houston.

Fan reaction has been mixed. Houston native, Bubba Thompson, was visably shaken by the court's opinion and was telling everybody that would listen at Al's BBQ shack: "I always thought in the back of my mind, that it wasn't right to blame just one person, but figured all them fellers that blamed that feller Carr just knew more than me. I guess we was wrong." San Diego Chargers fan, Preston Smith had this reaction: "No crap. We needed the Supreme Court to tell us that?"

Professional football player, Rex Grossman, Quarterback for the Chicago Bears voiced his approval for the court's ruling in a conference call, stating "Of course its a team sport, when the QB struggles you need a decent running game and strong defense to pick up the slack..

Mr. Grossman's comments seem to be validated by the fact, the Bears are 10-2, despite the fact he has one of the lowest ranked QB ratings of all starting QBs. Former Texans, GM, Charley Casserly vehemetly disagreed with the court's ruling "I have never heard such a load of cow dung [editorial change], all you need is a good young QB and some mediocre players on defense and especially on the offensive line. The job of the QB is to perform miracles, which is why you want a QB with strong religious convictions. Its just plain nonsense to believe you need both a good QB, stout offensive line and good running back. Just look at the Chargers, um, bad example." Mr. Casserly abruptly left the interview stating it was time to take his medication and his group therapy was about to begin.

Ya'll forgot something important on your IT list:

A highly ranked Defense and a strong running game.

Carr is a much better QB than Rex Grossman, yet the Bears win. Hmmm? What is the difference?

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-08-2006, 05:58 PM
NEWS FLASH = PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL DECLARED A TEAM SPORT



Ya'll forgot something important on your IT list:

A highly ranked Defense and a strong running game.

Carr is a much better QB than Rex Grossman, yet the Bears win. Hmmm? What is the difference?

Football isn't a team sport. Everybody knows that! The coach and qb get all the credit and blame.

You must be joking!:cowboy1:

GP
12-08-2006, 06:16 PM
Um, not all have been so fresh. Some have been merged. I won't be amazed if that continues all afternoon and through the weekend.

My addition to the list above would be:


A coach that will let the QB throw from the shotgun.


I hear ya'.

Maybe the shotgun formation is on page 1,345 of Kubiak's book, and he'll get back to the plays on that page in two years (IF his playbook is soooo enormous as claimed).

You know what they say about a coach who uses a BIG playbook and what he's compensating for...:cowboy1:

GP
12-08-2006, 06:18 PM
NEWS FLASH = PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL DECLARED A TEAM SPORT



Ya'll forgot something important on your IT list:

A highly ranked Defense and a strong running game.

Carr is a much better QB than Rex Grossman, yet the Bears win. Hmmm? What is the difference?

Good observation.

The Bears win IN SPITE OF their bumbling QB.

Water-tight defense makes a bad offense tolerable.

examples: Ravens and Bears.

I hope we either draft all defense or all o line this year. Period. Pick one, and then in next 2008's draft go after the other side of the ball with those picks.

Lucky
12-08-2006, 06:32 PM
Maybe the shotgun formation is on page 1,345 of Kubiak's book, and he'll get back to the plays on that page in two years (IF his playbook is soooo enormous as claimed).
Well, Kubiak has stated that he prefers the QB to take the snap from center because a) the QB doesn't have to take his eyes off the defense to catch the snap, and b) the shotgun formation limits the running game. Both of these may be true, but I think that the extra time the QB gets to release the ball before the rush gets there trumps those rationales.

The Texans have shown the shotgun formation under Kubiak. But the plays they've run are draws, screens, and that crazy QB sweep. By now, computers deriving NFL tendencies have revealed that the Texans do not pass downfield from the shotgun. I wouldn't be surprised if the Titans put 11 men on the LOS if the Texans come out in that formation.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-08-2006, 06:36 PM
I didn't know David had been looking for an IT staff.

Double Barrel
12-08-2006, 06:46 PM
Is Kubiak setting up Carr for failure?
Un-inspired play calling, no audibles, same formations, etc....................
It's like Koobs is still in pre-seaon evaluate mode or something...................

There has been some speculation that Carr is not up to the challenge, but I'm not one to speculate in that.

I agree with the original premise of the thread that he's been playing his entire career on a team that has been much less than adequate.

Nah...260 sacks is 260 sacks. the guy is toast. Shell shocked. Battle fatigue.

Bingo! I think four+ seasons of constant sacks have developed certain reaction tendencies in the guy. Heck, his first year in the NFL and he's setting sack records. That can never be a good thing for the development of a first year QB.

...and Carr drops his head in shame as he discovers his name is not written in the kingh99's book of life.... Then he suddenly remembers the multi-millions he is making and decides that kingh99's book may not be as important as he first thought...

lol: That was funny, kingh99, you have to admit

NEWS FLASH = PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL DECLARED A TEAM SPORT


POTD!! :thumbup

I'll have to remember this one (and give you credit for it accordingly). Good job, man.

Koolbrz
12-08-2006, 07:02 PM
He doesn't have the guts to finish his throw.

That has always been my main knock against Carr. Pull the trigger dude!

Would you have the guts if you had takin a beating like Carr has the short time he has been in the NFL. I dont think so. Hell, i dont think P. Manning would have survived the last 4 1/2 yrs.

hollywood_texan
12-08-2006, 08:00 PM
I broke this down in another thread.

You can see it here, http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=31735.

Basically, Carr's QB rating is about 142 when the team is trailing by 22 or more. All other times, Carr has a QB rating of about 81.

Carr has thrown for 10 TDs this season, 5 have come when trailing by by 22 or more.

That is the nuts and bolts of his rating and where it comes from. You can discuss it from there.

Runner
12-09-2006, 12:13 AM
Would you have the guts if you had takin a beating like Carr has the short time he has been in the NFL. I dont think so. Hell, i dont think P. Manning would have survived the last 4 1/2 yrs.

THere is no question in my mind that Carr is a very tough guy.

Second Honeymoon
12-09-2006, 01:40 AM
I broke this down in another thread.

You can see it here, http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=31735.

Basically, Carr's QB rating is about 142 when the team is trailing by 22 or more. All other times, Carr has a QB rating of about 81.

Carr has thrown for 10 TDs this season, 5 have come when trailing by by 22 or more.

That is the nuts and bolts of his rating and where it comes from. You can discuss it from there.


Yup. He gets all his yards when it doesnt matter. If Carr was a baseball player he would always get you a solo home run when the team was up by 9 or down by 9 but would never get the big hit or the big dinger. Bottom line is the guy has obviously been overrated as a player by a lot of people in this organization. If you like to win football games, he is stastically the worst QB in the history of the NFL at winning football games (from starting QB samples of 4+ consecutive years or more)

Eventually you have to realize that David is what he is. He was a workout warrior with the golden boy image from Fresno State who has done nothing but lose football games for going on 5 years. I wish he was good because the Texans have invested a lot of time and money on this guy, but he has done nothing but disappoint.

In this league the only statistic that matters is W-L. To the guy who said Carr is better than Grossman, that is just stupid. His offensive line sucks, average running game, and he has a couple good wideouts. Carr has more talent around him than Grossman, yet Rex has found a way to make enough plays to help his team win all but 2 or 3 of his games in a season...and they are still riding his butt in the Chicago public at large due to his struggles of late....

All this while we keep making excuses for Carr 5 years later after losing 80%+ of our games over a 2 year+ stretch. Oh, Rex has only been a starter for less than 2 years now. He has been hurt but you dont hear people in the Chicagoland area making excuses....its about winning and Carr has never shown me anything to prove he can win consistently...he struggles to put 2 wins together in a row...cmon now. The Sage era would've begun in Oakland last week that is for sure

TheOgre
12-09-2006, 01:45 AM
I think Carr needs a change of scenery. He needs to go somewhere with an above average line and at least a consistent rushing attack. In addition to all of that, he needs to go somewhere where the fans don't hate him. Sometimes a new location can make all the difference in the world (Cris Carter, Curt Schilling, Jim Edmonds, Steve Young, etc.). Sometimes it doesn't matter though (Ryan Leaf, Rob Johnson, Jeff George). Time will tell.

Nighthawk
12-09-2006, 01:45 AM
Danged funny how much better Troy got once the Cow Polks put a few of the peices you mentioned in your post in place. Kinda weird huh ? Well may not so unusual.

There you go. Carr has only had five years and every one of them behind a really bad offensive line. I say get him a few players in the next couple of years and he's sure to improve. We haven't really given him a chance behind a real NFL offensive line. It's going to take maybe two, three years to build that line from here, so you really can't expect David to take us to the promised land until '09. But if he's not a power player in '09 I'm going to at least consider whether we might need to at least look at some alternatives for the next decade.

TexansSeminole
12-09-2006, 01:49 AM
In this league the only statistic that matters is W-L. To the guy who said Carr is better than Grossman, that is just stupid. His offensive line sucks, average running game, and he has a couple good wideouts. Carr has more talent around him than Grossman, yet Rex has found a way to make enough plays to help his team win all but 2 or 3 of his games in a season...and they are still riding his butt in the Chicago public at large due to his struggles of late....

I agree with you. Carr has more opportunity than Grossman when it comes to talent in the offense.

All this while we keep making excuses for Carr 5 years later after losing 80%+ of our games over a 2 year+ stretch. Oh, Rex has only been a starter for less than 2 years now. He has been hurt but you dont hear people in the Chicagoland area making excuses....its about winning and Carr has never shown me anything to prove he can win consistently...he struggles to put 2 wins together in a row...cmon now. The Sage era would've begun in Oakland last week that is for sure[/QUOTE]

That is true, it just looks more and more like Carr is heading out of town. Probably shopping him now.

tsip
12-09-2006, 03:24 AM
...look at the 'bright side'...just think how bad things would be if Carr didn't have 'IT!'...his problem is he doesn't have 'THAT!'

Scooter
12-09-2006, 04:19 AM
edit: will probably repost tomorrow.

Kaiser Toro
12-09-2006, 07:48 AM
Well, Kubiak has stated that he prefers the QB to take the snap from center because a) the QB doesn't have to take his eyes off the defense to catch the snap, and b) the shotgun formation limits the running game. Both of these may be true, but I think that the extra time the QB gets to release the ball before the rush gets there trumps those rationales.

The Texans have shown the shotgun formation under Kubiak. But the plays they've run are draws, screens, and that crazy QB sweep. By now, computers deriving NFL tendencies have revealed that the Texans do not pass downfield from the shotgun. I wouldn't be surprised if the Titans put 11 men on the LOS if the Texans come out in that formation.

I was trying to remember if Elway, under Shanny, used the shovel pass which was very effective for the Broncos, probably because it was Elway back there. Do you recall?

Carr has been under three coordinators now and I have seen no shotgun, no audibles and no imagination and have been confounded by that. The capper was Kubiak essesntially taking the ball out of his hands totally and winning the game last week. I just have to believe that the three NFL OC's who have coached Carr all saw something that makes them use the KISS method, Keep IT Simple for Stupid.

Maddict5
12-09-2006, 08:40 AM
In this league the only statistic that matters is W-L. To the guy who said Carr is better than Grossman, that is just stupid. His offensive line sucks, average running game, and he has a couple good wideouts. Carr has more talent around him than Grossman, yet Rex has found a way to make enough plays to help his team win all but 2 or 3 of his games in a season...and they are still riding his butt in the Chicago public at large due to his struggles of late....


I agree with you. Carr has more opportunity than Grossman when it comes to talent in the offense.

All this while we keep making excuses for Carr 5 years later after losing 80%+ of our games over a 2 year+ stretch. Oh, Rex has only been a starter for less than 2 years now. He has been hurt but you dont hear people in the Chicagoland area making excuses....its about winning and Carr has never shown me anything to prove he can win consistently...he struggles to put 2 wins together in a row...cmon now. The Sage era would've begun in Oakland last week that is for sure

how do you figure our offence is better than ours???
grossmans o-line is god and waaaaaay better than ours
chicago have 2 excellent rb's
chicago have 2 quality wideouts- muhammed(pro-bowler) and berrian(1 of the best young wideouts in the NFL)...

so again-what the hell are ye talking about??:shoot:

Texanfan4ever
12-09-2006, 10:04 AM
I was trying to remember if Elway, under Shanny, used the shovel pass which was very effective for the Broncos, probably because it was Elway back there. Do you recall?

Carr has been under three coordinators now and I have seen no shotgun, no audibles and no imagination and have been confounded by that. The capper was Kubiak essesntially taking the ball out of his hands totally and winning the game last week. I just have to believe that the three NFL OC's who have coached Carr all see something that makes them use the KISS method, Keep IT Simple for Stupid.

Kaiser, Be Nice! It's Christmas.....:dance3:

Vinny
12-09-2006, 10:08 AM
How many playoff games have the Broncos won after Elway? One

Tale Gator
12-09-2006, 11:45 AM
The "**IT" was radiating through him like a beacon, lighting his team’s way to victory.

Lmao. :joker:

Second Honeymoon
12-09-2006, 11:46 AM
how do you figure our offence is better than ours???
grossmans o-line is god and waaaaaay better than ours
chicago have 2 excellent rb's
chicago have 2 quality wideouts- muhammed(pro-bowler) and berrian(1 of the best young wideouts in the NFL)...

so again-what the hell are ye talking about??:shoot:

Chicago's offensive line is god? Who told you that? Whoever did is sorely mistaken. But keep excuses coming.

Chicago has 2 running backs that have potential...to call them excellent is to be ignorant of reality.

Chicago has one good wideout - muhammad and berrian is young. What is your point. Carr has AJ, who is better than Muhsin, and Carr has Moulds who is better and more proven than Berrian.

BTW when a QB doesnt get sacked, its not always because of the OL. A lot of the time it has to do with the QBs abililty to read defense and make quick and intelligent decisions....

but whatever, keep the excuses and rationalizations coming. Carr is just not a smart QB and struggles at the basics.

Truth hurts but being oblivious to the facts makes you an unknowledgeable fan and McNair's wet dream. Until the Texans fans stop acting like Cubs fans, McNair isn't going to change a thing with the current culture of the team or its current 'leadership' (lolololol lol) in the huddle

dtran04
12-09-2006, 11:59 AM
If only I could get a dollar for how often people repeat their posts, I would be Bill Gates right now. :)

Texans_Chick
12-09-2006, 01:57 PM
Chicago's offensive line is god? Who told you that? Whoever did is sorely mistaken. But keep excuses coming.



First of all, I would like to point out that the title of this thread is sort of perverted.

Secondly, I invite you all to read my most recent Chronic blog post: "How about talking about some Texans football?" (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/12/how_about_talking_about_some_t.html) I highlighted Temecula Mike's press release because I thought it was funny.

Within that blog post, I put a FootballOutsiders study looking at offensive lines.

The Bears line has had only 1 basic offensive linemen lineup, has used 5 linemen, and has been together for 12 weeks in a row. As I said in the blog:

According to the study, the Texans line has used 6 lines, 8 players, and the most weeks together with the same line is 4. Only the Cardinals have more unfortunate stats.

Thirdly, I thought this HPF post (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6836)from infantrycak was interesting and worth mentioning again:

Was bored and decided to take a look at this. Does Carr fumble the ball more often than other QB's in comparison to the sacks he takes?

Fumbles as a percentage of sacks:

Brees--29%
Peyton--26.8
Kitna--36.5
Bulger--15.3
Palmer--22.9
Brady--32.5
Favre--32.9
Big Ben--10
McNabb--22.3
Eli--32.8
Delhomme--41
McNair--37.4
Carr--27.3

Average--28.2

Doesn't make the fumbling any better but for perspective.


I don't pretend to know the answers to Carr or VY's careers and stuff. It is hard to try finding what "the truth" is in a world where everyone's point of view is affected by the filters of what they expect or want to see.

Merrill Hoge is just an obvious example of this phenomenon in his hostility toward VY:

link (http://titans.aolsportsblog.com/2006/12/07/merrill-hoges-hostility-towards-vince-young/)

Obviously, as a human, I have my own filters and biases based on my life experiences. I know I am distrustful of group think. If people have positions on things, I want to know the reasons why, not just because everybody thinks that is the deal. I'm also distrustful of people who are overly certain that what they are saying is the unshakeable truth.

The thing, for me, that makes the David Carr situation difficult is various competing truths:

He goes Jerry Lewis if he gets rattled early. He has had to learn on the job in a very difficult situation. He has made his mistakes in a very public way. People are sick of watching him learn. I know it is hard to gain respect in your first real job with people who have watched you fail. In 2002, he was put in a situation that few quarterbacks could possibly succeed in.

He has never had a solid offensive line situation. The running back situation this year has been ridiculous. Nobody wants to wait any longer for him to be in a better situation because a. they are sick of it and b. they are uncertain whether he is been ruint or ever had it in the first place given his struggles since the beginning of the franchise.

He's a tough guy who has rarely complained though having ample opportunity to do so.

Sports talk tends to be non-subtle. Players are bums or heros until they are not a bum or hero. Players are built up to be brought down.

Reality tends to be more subtle and contain more gray areas. Oh well.

dantem
12-09-2006, 01:59 PM
Last week we won, thats all that matters, right?, I remember reading hundreds of posts and responses from people who hate CARR saying "who cares how good he is playing, its the W that counts, therefore he sucks" Now the logic has changed to who cares if we won, Its how well he plays that matters. If you DC haters are going to have any credibility, you need to stop talking out of both sides of your neck.

At this point I think its obvious that you don't even beleive your own BS.

MrMeToo
12-09-2006, 02:09 PM
5 years and no improvement.Carr doesn't have what it takes to be at least a good QB.

Maddict5
12-09-2006, 06:35 PM
Chicago's offensive line is god? Who told you that? Whoever did is sorely mistaken. But keep excuses coming.

Chicago has 2 running backs that have potential...to call them excellent is to be ignorant of reality.

Chicago has one good wideout - muhammad and berrian is young. What is your point. Carr has AJ, who is better than Muhsin, and Carr has Moulds who is better and more proven than Berrian.

BTW when a QB doesnt get sacked, its not always because of the OL. A lot of the time it has to do with the QBs abililty to read defense and make quick and intelligent decisions....

but whatever, keep the excuses and rationalizations coming. Carr is just not a smart QB and struggles at the basics.



first of all, im no carr homer because hes been bad at times this year but you're obviously a hater... my point is that i see other qb's who are as bad as carr imo but are in better situations...grossman is 1, mcnair is another

now chicago's o-line is good (its called a typo if you're wondering)..granted i havent seen them that much this year-twice i think- (saw them alot last year)...but they've been good both running the ball and giving grossman time to throw his ints when i did see them this year...

use all the rhetoric/cliches you want about time to make reads etc but i saw the pats-bears game lately and he had alot more time than carr did last week in oakland..fact

potential???yeah thomas jones has rushed for over 1300yds last year and is on pace to do the same again this year. benson is a high draft pick who has looked good anytime ive seen him and is getting more carries this year...you're the ignorant 1 for confusing potential with production

now the wrs- who cares if berrian is young- he was 1 of the hotttest wrs this year before getting injured and actual produced in addition to stretching the field with his speed- and is better than moulds now.
now id agree that aj is better than muhammed (but using your logic-muhammed is more proven right????:spy: )..both are pro-bowlers that drop too many passes but if you gave me the choice to pick which tandem id pick it wouldnt be easy


and as for making intelligent decisions... carr mightn't be that high up on that list but hed still be above grossman.. my point being that if carr was in chicago, hed be more successful than grossman imo- which isnt saying hes great or anything