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ib4texans
12-07-2006, 12:29 PM
:twocents: I for one am more than happy with our draft pick. If you are a Carr hater or even on the fence, are you saying you would rather have Vince than Mario? Mario brings pressure that allows other players to be great. DeMeco is a great player hands down,but Mario has been making him better. I think alot of our D-line guys are playing up to Mario. I'm sorry but my picks would still be (1)Mario (2)Reggie and sorry to say my QB pick would be Jay Cutler not Vince. Cutler has Elway and Marino written all over him.:twocents:

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-07-2006, 12:40 PM
:twocents: I for one am more than happy with our draft pick. If you are a Carr hater or even on the fence, are you saying you would rather have Vince than Mario? Mario brings pressure that allows other players to be great. DeMeco is a great player hands down,but Mario has been making him better. I think alot of our D-line guys are playing up to Mario. I'm sorry but my picks would still be (1)Mario (2)Reggie and sorry to say my QB pick would be Jay Cutler not Vince. Cutler has Elway and Marino written all over him.:twocents:

The thing that upsets me the most is we could have two decent quality olinemen for those two picks that Oakland got for PBuch.

Micturating away a second and a third round pick for someone as useless as Buchanon is a whole lot worse than passing up on Bush or Young. By the way, I like Mario. I'm glad he's here. Oh, and don't forget moving up to get Babin! This franchise has made decisions that blow away the first pick in last years' draft, and not many people talk much about those. Remember Hollings? Wouldn't you like to have Julius Peppers instead of Carr right now?

Nawzer
12-07-2006, 12:42 PM
I think a lot of fans don't dislike Mario Williams. It's not about Mario over Vince. Personally, I was for drafting Reggie Bush and I was bummed out big time when we passed him up. As for VY, I've been a fan of his since his days at Madison High. What a lot of fans are mad or angered about is that with the no.1 pick you get value. I'm sorry, but I'll take a good QB over a good DE with the no.1 pick anyday. A QB does more for his team than a defensive end will ever do. Now I know other teams didn't want to trade up so our FO decided Mario is the best guy for us. I was upset with that pick but I got over it and I like Mario and I know what he brings to our team. With Mario and DeMeco our defense can be a great. And hopefully this week Mario, DeMeco, and most importantly the whole team will show that we are going in the right direction.

WWJD
12-07-2006, 12:44 PM
I always thought they should have drafted Vince and I still think that way.

Meloy
12-07-2006, 12:58 PM
I think it is unrealistic to look back and say what should have been done. New info is available that wasn't at the draft. I think you say "I made this choice based on this info" and it worked or it didn't. If you are right, you get a paycheck. Wrong often enough and you don't. The frustration I have is McNair doesn't call me for advice...if he did? Well, I'd probably be without the paycheck.

Double Barrel
12-07-2006, 01:00 PM
Mario or Vince?

Mario, because he's a Texan. This fanatic doesn't cry over spilt milk. What's done is done. :howdy:

Brandon420tx
12-07-2006, 01:12 PM
my answer is in this thread

http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=21868&highlight=mario+thread

old school

edit: Gasps, turns out I didn't post in there, but I did use the avatar, I'll put it back up in a sec as proof.

CaptainPatriot
12-07-2006, 01:39 PM
IMO Should have taken VY. Home Town Guy so much upside for VY coming here. Can always get a DE in next years draft!

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-07-2006, 01:41 PM
IMO Should have taken VY. Home Town Guy so much upside for VY coming here. Can always get a DE in next years draft!

It's over. No do-overs. We'll help each other move on.

thunderkyss
12-07-2006, 01:43 PM
I was on the Trade down or draft Vince Wagon. It didn't bother me we decided to Draft Mario with the #1 overall.....

As long as we didn't draft Reggie.

But.... while I haven't Argued that Vince is better than David right now..... which is only true in some aspects of their game... I'd be ragging on David Right now regardless how Vince is/was doing.

Bad QB play is bad QB play.

I don't necessarily want David replaced... I'd like to know that Kubiak sees these problems, and is working to fix them. So far, I'm not happy with his "we have to do a better job of finding what David is comfortable with" approach.


I'm also not satisfied with the fans who see the high QB rating (which doesn't take into account fumbles, or reluctance to throw the ball downfield), or high completion rating(which doesn't take into acount the reluctance to throw the ball downfield), and saying see.... David is playing better.

he's playing better because he's getting rid of the ball quicker..... not because protection has been better at any point this year than it has in past years....

We don't have a problem looking at our Linebackers, and pointing out which ones aren't playing well. It doesn't matter that Mario is the only one doing anything on the defensive line..... we know which linebacker isn't pulling his weight... we know which DB isn't working...

Same thing on offense, we should be able to look at individual players, and critique them based on their play.

When you watch the games at the stadium, you see the one on one coverage...... you see the seperation(not often, I'll be honest)....... you see the holes in the zones... & you (at least I am) have to wonder what is David thinking when he throws that dump off to the flats on 3rd & 4 when we have a guy wide open 8 yards down the field.

Or when you watch the Dallas game, and you see gross mismatches in our favor, and David doesn't even look at that reciever........ or he motions our TE to the Line, when he is being covered by a run stopping DE...... then runs the play to that side.... It's like, "David..... didn't you undertsand that we want to run the ball to that side, and it would have been easier if Greg Ellis was covering Owen on the sideline??"

Anyway, we need our QB to play better.... & we need some fans to get out of Denile.....

we need our OL to play better, no doubt..... but we need our QB to play better regardless.

run-david-run
12-07-2006, 02:08 PM
The thing is, Mario affects games in ways that are very hard to notice, while VY almost always does it with the ball in his hands. As CoachDent pointed out a few days ago, the Raiders ran 22 times, but they only ran to Mario's side 3 times. Thats insane. The point of defense is to cotrol what the offense does, and I would say that is pretty much the definition of controling the offense. Also, he hit Brooks, forcing a bad throw and an interception. You will also see him running down WR's and RB's from across the field. He is probably the best athelet on the defensive side in the NFL, or at least in the top 3 with Peppers and Freeney. Stop whining about VY and enjoy watching Mario and DeMeco take other teams' offenses apart.

Big J
12-07-2006, 02:25 PM
For those of you who truly beleive that Vince Young is better than Mario, please make an educated statement. Do not base what he has done at UT or what Sportcenter shows you as an indication of his true abilities.

He will probably become a great quarterback. But currently I am not so sold on his "greatness". Granted he might control the huddle and pick up third downs using his feet causing Defenses to play him differently...aka he is a playmaker. But what happens when he takes big hit after big hit in the open field. He might be stronger than Michael Vick but the same outcome is bound to occur.

Plus he makes many mistakes when he does throw the ball. I beleive he will eventually refine his skills in the pocket, but currently Mario Williams is a better player (he is playing injured lets remember).

Here is to DeMeco rocking Vince Young in the open field and make him think next time he tucks it down and runs.

Texans_Chick
12-07-2006, 02:37 PM
Mario or Vince is sort of a weird choice.

I truly believe that it is not just about the players. It also about team fit.

The Texans had to make a choice early on whether to keep Carr, a player that even his worst detractors believe had uneven QB coaching, little line help, little WR help, etc. A player who has been beat up a million different ways and didn't physically or emotionally fall apart.

They had to decide what to do with his contract before the draft and shortly after Kubiak was signed.

If you kept Carr and signed VY, despite John McClain's view to the contrary, it would have been a cluster, and a mess from the salary cap. Then you have two quarterbacks with question marks, AND you lose getting a quality defensive player.

If you kicked Carr to the curb then, you lost a perhaps salvagable QB and get nothing.

I know most of this thread is retrospective, but that's not how the NFL types get to deal.

I sometimes feel that Texans are jinxed such that even if we picked VY, we would still have the inconsistent running play, the offensive line problems, and maybe Ron Dayne would have broken Vince's leg in a freak accident or something. OH, and our defense would suck more than it has sucked.

Alternative history is a beach. You never know what woulda happened.

Texan_Bill
12-07-2006, 02:59 PM
It's a mute point. Why ponder what will never be....

ib4texans
12-07-2006, 03:18 PM
Mario or Vince is sort of a weird choice.

I truly believe that it is not just about the players. It also about team fit.

The Texans had to make a choice early on whether to keep Carr, a player that even his worst detractors believe had uneven QB coaching, little line help, little WR help, etc. A player who has been beat up a million different ways and didn't physically or emotionally fall apart.

They had to decide what to do with his contract before the draft and shortly after Kubiak was signed.

If you kept Carr and signed VY, despite John McClain's view to the contrary, it would have been a cluster, and a mess from the salary cap. Then you have two quarterbacks with question marks, AND you lose getting a quality defensive player.

If you kicked Carr to the curb then, you lost a perhaps salvagable QB and get nothing.

I know most of this thread is retrospective, but that's not how the NFL types get to deal.

I sometimes feel that Texans are jinxed such that even if we picked VY, we would still have the inconsistent running play, the offensive line problems, and maybe Ron Dayne would have broken Vince's leg in a freak accident or something. OH, and our defense would suck more than it has sucked.

Alternative history is a beach. You never know what woulda happened.

It's not a wierd choice if you take into context; all the VY whiners that wanted/still want him. The question isn't a hindsight question, who would you rather have Mario or Vince today?

shinerbock_girl
12-07-2006, 04:00 PM
Mario all the way BABY!!!! :mario2:

Honch Delgado
12-07-2006, 04:09 PM
Vince. Dan Reeves should pay back his consulting fees.

El Amigo Invisible
12-07-2006, 04:11 PM
I think Mario is a good player but you do not pass on Superman.

I would take Vince, Mario, AJ Hawk

SLO Texan
12-07-2006, 04:24 PM
Super Mario any day of the week!!!!!!!

:fireball: :bowser: ...........Run Vince RUN!!!!!
MW..............VY

Go TEXANS!!!! BEAT TITANS!!!!:fans:

thunderkyss
12-07-2006, 07:32 PM
It's not a wierd choice if you take into context; all the VY whiners that wanted/still want him. The question isn't a hindsight question, who would you rather have Mario or Vince today?

Many fans would be happy with Mario & Sage right now....

QB75
12-07-2006, 07:37 PM
Mario. Not even a close call.

Carr Bombed
12-07-2006, 07:38 PM
I think Mario is a good player but you do not pass on Superman.

I would take Vince, Mario, AJ Hawk


Why would AJ even be a option when you have someone like DeMeco

I'm not even going to comment on who I think we should of took......ask me in 3 years

axman40
12-07-2006, 08:10 PM
I would have taken VY!
:cowboy1:

wwffan99tx
12-07-2006, 08:12 PM
Wouldn't change the pick myself. Not because Mario will be better than Vince in the long run. But if we don't take mario in the 1st round then do we look at a DE in the 2nd and make someone other than Demeco our pick? Personally I'll take Carr/Mario/Demeco over VY/possibly another DE any day of the week.

Erratic Assassin
12-07-2006, 08:47 PM
The thing that upsets me the most is we could have two decent quality olinemen for those two picks that Oakland got for PBuch.

Oh, and don't forget moving up to get Babin!

Remember Hollings?

Casserly was the master of trading down, getting extra picks, then turning around and blowing the extra picks on players that weren't worth one pick. We would had been better if Casserly had just picked the most talented player available with the picks we had, but he liked to razzle-dazzle with that kind of crap to trick you into thinking he was an adequate GM.

Carr Bombed
12-07-2006, 08:53 PM
The thing that upsets me the most is we could have two decent quality olinemen for those two picks that Oakland got for PBuch.

What makes me mad is we could of stayed put and took a MUCH better player in Fabian Washington, without trading all those picks for a Bust at the same position.

kfranco_utexas
12-07-2006, 09:20 PM
I like Mario, he seems like a great guy!


But I still have to take VY.

thunderkyss
12-07-2006, 09:21 PM
Wouldn't change the pick myself. Not because Mario will be better than Vince in the long run. But if we don't take mario in the 1st round then do we look at a DE in the 2nd and make someone other than Demeco our pick? Personally I'll take Carr/Mario/Demeco over VY/possibly another DE any day of the week.

DE was considered fixed prior to the draft(We gave Weaver alot of money, & expected a lot from Babin/Peek).

If we hadn't drafted Mario, & still missed D'Angelo Williams, we'd have looked at DE/MLB, depending on who was BPA at that time.

We might not have OwenDaniels, but we're not really using him anyway....

vinceyoungfan
12-07-2006, 09:28 PM
read my signature.

Wolf
12-07-2006, 09:29 PM
We had to go ugly at some time, Granted I wasn't happy with us not being able to trade down, but from reports noone was biting (rumor was Jets wouldn't part their 2 #1's for the Saints #1)


what is done is done. I am happy we got mario.

Hopefully this is a good pick, I remember the Oilers drafting Munchak,Mathews,Steinkuhler in consective drafts and at the time I wanted the "flashy" pic,,well that didn't happen and those lineman paved the way for many solid season, Heres to Mario,Ryans,and Last years TJ(if he gets his head in the game and get healed up) leading to a dominate defense for many years.

Mr. White
12-07-2006, 10:00 PM
I could give a rat's ass anymore. I can't wait until this week is over.

Insideop
12-07-2006, 10:05 PM
Shoulda, woulda, coulda! Even though I wanted VY in the beginning, I knew we would never pick him after they resigned Carr. So I'm glad we picked Mario over Bush. And, if I had to guess, I think Kubes will be going after O-line and/or defensive front 7 with the first few picks in next years draft. Sorry to all of those out there that are thinking RB or QB in the 1st round, but I think Kubes wants to build up the interiors (trenches) first! JMHO!

YellerLotYeller
12-08-2006, 12:04 AM
Mario or Vince?

hmmmmm....I'll take DeMeco!

spek
12-08-2006, 12:17 AM
The stimulants in my brain has killed many brains cells no doubt, but when is the last time a rushing QB has whon a SuperBowl. Uhhhhhhh...........my guess is never. I will stick with the present, besides Carr is mobile and is generally in the top 5 of rushing QB's (running for his life) so what could VY do that Carr couldn't. Mario all the way! Defense wins championships not offense. If so the Colts would have won several of the last years.

thunderkyss
12-08-2006, 06:59 AM
The stimulants in my brain has killed many brains cells no doubt, but when is the last time a rushing QB has whon a SuperBowl. Uhhhhhhh...........my guess is never. I will stick with the present, besides Carr is mobile and is generally in the top 5 of rushing QB's (running for his life) so what could VY do that Carr couldn't. Mario all the way! Defense wins championships not offense. If so the Colts would have won several of the last years.

let me see if I can paraphrase.......

We don't need Vince, because rushing QBs won't ever win a Superbowl.


Carr is a rushing QB.



does that about sum it up for ya??

eric138
12-08-2006, 07:11 AM
maybe in five years we will have Vince and Mario.

HJam72
12-08-2006, 07:16 AM
All I have to say is that the #1 pick in the 2006 draft should've been:

Demeco Ryans :texflag:

'nough said.


PS--I wouldn't have even considered him because I didn't know he existed.

Kaiser Toro
12-08-2006, 07:29 AM
It was always Mario for me and it was always going to be Mario or Bush, but predicated on extending Carr and who came in as HC. If Carr was released we were going Bush and no one in the organization wanted that PR dilemma for a new HC. Mario made it more palatable.

whiskeyrbl
12-08-2006, 07:54 AM
Couldn't you just have looked in the thousands of these threads in archives to find this answer? Whats done is done,we have Mario if you don't like the pick and it bothers you so much , go to Tennesse.

leachmtb
12-08-2006, 09:12 AM
I like Mario first and Cutler second. Give that guy time, I promise you that he'll be unbelievable. But, when Denver plays Houston, my Vanderbilt loyalties go out the window, and I hope that Cutler loses.

El Tejano
12-08-2006, 09:54 AM
The way I see it is, our defense has had about 3 games in which they put us in position to win (@Tenn, @ NYG and Buffalo at home) and where we could easily be 7-5. On top of that they pretty much were the reason we've even won 4 games. The defense has improved over the course of the season as it has gotten acclimated. The poor start and the losses have pretty much covered that.

Mario is a big reason why our defense has given us some kind of chance to win.

If we get Vince (yes he is going to be great and is) we are possibly looking at a worse record because our team would never be able to hold anybody like the previous 2-14 team never could.

On top of that, you look at the fact that we have no consistent running game and you may end up with the same outcome offensively but with a still bad defense. Travis Henry is a good RB and has been pretty decent over the course of his career.

Would getting Vince be a great move? Sure but your looking at a longer turnaround time.

With Mario, his impact, although non-noticable, has given us a reason to think we can win everyweek.

As for Carr being the answer, I can't say he is but that is not to say we won't ever upgrade that position. With a strong defense though, you got the ability to make that transition and be successful ie...Dallas Cowboys, Baltimore Ravens (who by the way switched to Trent Dilfer mid season).

BigWig
12-08-2006, 10:00 AM
Its neither for me its Luigi!

ATX_Texan
12-08-2006, 10:56 AM
For selfish reasons, Vince.

Living in Austin, the Texans receive about the same coverage as the Buffalo Bills. I know McNair is content with his top-5 revenue generated in the Houston area and his full season ticket list. However, the name is Texans and it would be nice if there was at least a small effort to market the team outside Houston. I understand why people don't care about the team in San Antonio and Austin because the product has been so poor for so long. However, you sometime have to market the team in other ways. The Texans had the oppourtunity to truly make the Texans attractive to the entire state by choosing Young, but that did not happen.

I know that if Vince was playing for the Texans, people outside of Houston would be talking about the Texans (beside how bad they stink) and there would actually be a demand to show their games. Instead, the few fans outside Houston are forced to watch the games in a sports bar on the crappest TVs, if the bar even chooses to show it. I know a "true fan" would buy season tickets and just go to the games. However, that only takes care of half the season because the road games are not shown here either. I guess a "true fan" could also buy a dish, but maybe the current product does not warrant the hassle and expenditure. I remember suffering as a kid watching the Oilers through their many wasted seasons, but at least I was not paying for the abuse.

For me, Mario needs to be superman, or at least Reggie White reborn, to be better than Vince Young and to justify his spot on the roster. So far, he is just a good DE. However, Vince Young makes people care about watching the Titans. Part of it is becase he went to UT, but also he seems to makes things happen and he proves the people that doubt him wrong. Mario does not do this for me, and for lots of other people out there. I in no way blame Mario for it, he just not have the "IT" to make people say "Wow! I got to see that Mario Williams play".

The bottom line is that Vince would give more people a reason to care about the Texans and therefore fans like me would be able to enjoy watching their team play on Sunday a little easier.

2ToneBlue
12-08-2006, 11:05 AM
Mario is a Texan, he will be a good player in the future. Home town guy in Vince might put some extra stress on him to preform more. In anycase I'm glad we got who we got and you should be happy with :mario3: .

ib4texans
12-08-2006, 11:50 AM
For selfish reasons, Vince.



For me, Mario needs to be superman, or at least Reggie White reborn, to be better than Vince Young and to justify his spot on the roster. So far, he is just a good DE. However, Vince Young makes people care about watching the Titans. Part of it is becase he went to UT, but also he seems to makes things happen and he proves the people that doubt him wrong. Mario does not do this for me, and for lots of other people out there. I in no way blame Mario for it, he just not have the "IT" to make people say "Wow! I got to see that Mario Williams play".
The bottom line is that Vince would give more people a reason to care about the Texans and therefore fans like me would be able to enjoy watching their team play on Sunday a little easier.


Mario does not do this for me, and for lots of other people out there. I in no way blame Mario for it, he just not have the "IT" to make people say "Wow! I got to see that Mario Williams play".


I'm sorry he doesn't have "it" for you, but he certainly does "it" for me.



The bottom line is that Vince would give more people a reason to care about the Texans and therefore fans like me would be able to enjoy watching their team play on Sunday a little easier.[/QUOTE]


I get your point. I like to watch the whole team every game,Defense,Special Teams,Offense.

ATX_Texan
12-08-2006, 02:32 PM
I'm sorry he doesn't have "it" for you, but he certainly does "it" for me.

Cool! We have established which player is preferred by you and by me. This could be one of those coke vs. pepsi things. Everyone has their own preferences of what they like to watch.

I also will assume that we can agree both players are talented in their own unique way?

Now, let's take the debate up to the next layer of who would be more valuable for the Texans and the vast majority of their fans.

Vince sparks interest in football fans in general: college, pro, etc. People are interested because he has demonstrated an ability to prove his critics wrong again and again. Even casual fans want to see if he will fail or not. Therefore, people are more likely to watch Texans games if Vince Young is playing. The Texans are in the entertainment business and should always strive to have more fans. There are millions of football fans in Texas. The Texans would probably like to appeal to as many of them as possible, instead of just "true" fans in the Houston area. Is it really debatable who people would rather watch play? If Vince Young was not involved, would the game this weekend have 1% of the interest it has generated? Vince Young gets people to actually go to Reliant stadium that normally would not attend a Texan game ever as evidenced by the full house that will occur this weekend. This is in direct contrast to the normal late season sea of empty seats like last year. So, can we assert that Mario falls way, way short in the marketing area?

The next group to consider is the fans outside of the Houston area. Now, their choices are to beg a sports bar to show their games or pony up for the dish. Vince Young makes the lives of all these fans easier because he generates interest and fans, which causes the networks all around this state to actually have a reason to televise the games. Vince actually helps the fans in San Antonio, Austin, and El Paso enjoy the Texans more than Mario ever could by the simple fact that more Texans games will be televised in more homes across the state.

For the true blue fans who don't care how bad the Texans play, Vince is also okay. He will not cause them not to watch the games because they are already there. Here at least Mario is equal to Vince because neither will have any negative effect on these true heroes.

Again, unless Mario is super man and winning games all by himself, he cannot possibly have the impact on the franchise that Vince Young would have. Throw in the fact that Vince Young is a very talented player in his own right and probably a better QB than Carr will ever be and it is easy to see why lots of people are upset at the Texans for passing him up.

It seems like the only negative effect Vince would have are to the hard core Mario and Carr fans that appear to very limited when compared to the large number of folks described above.

In conclusion, I would offer that Vince Young >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mario to the Texans and the vast majority of their fans for all the reasons above.

threetoedpete
12-08-2006, 02:52 PM
Got it . You love St. Vincent.

sleepwalker
12-08-2006, 03:26 PM
Mario.

kingh99
12-08-2006, 03:28 PM
I'll take Mario with one caveat. Give me a QB that can at least hang with VY. VY has flaws and hopefully our DBs will exploit these flaws this weekend. 2 years from I do not want a 3 year vet VY going against our green rookie QB. That's going to be a lot of sad BS for us to endure. We need a solid proven vet like Brees.

El Amigo Invisible
12-08-2006, 03:30 PM
I would take Michael Huff with the first overall pick. Just kidding

ryansisgod
12-08-2006, 03:43 PM
Its neither for me its Luigi!

lol...that made me jump out of my chair

BigWig
12-08-2006, 03:47 PM
lol...that made me jump out of my chair

I was waiting for someone to laugh, thanks man!

ryansisgod
12-08-2006, 06:20 PM
I was waiting for someone to laugh, thanks man!

we need people like you around to occasionaly lighten to mood, things here get to heated sometimes.

Bongo59
12-08-2006, 06:46 PM
This answers the post title


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADh52Uf2EwE&eurl=

Orion
12-08-2006, 07:42 PM
For those of you who truly beleive that Vince Young is better than Mario, please make an educated statement. Do not base what he has done at UT or what Sportcenter shows you as an indication of his true abilities.

He will probably become a great quarterback. But currently I am not so sold on his "greatness". Granted he might control the huddle and pick up third downs using his feet causing Defenses to play him differently...aka he is a playmaker. But what happens when he takes big hit after big hit in the open field. He might be stronger than Michael Vick but the same outcome is bound to occur.

Plus he makes many mistakes when he does throw the ball. I beleive he will eventually refine his skills in the pocket, but currently Mario Williams is a better player (he is playing injured lets remember).

Here is to DeMeco rocking Vince Young in the open field and make him think next time he tucks it down and runs.


here is an educated argument, vince young a rookie qb, leads his team to 2 come back victories against the giants and the colts.....the colts mind you who have never ever lost when up by 14pts since dungee has been there, i guess this was luck, and i guess he got lucky two weeks in a row, and i guess he just has a better all around team so thats why he can win, or maybe its because he's a leader, and in this short amount of time, he has the entire team believing in him, this is what makes him the best, he is in a position as qb to have the biggest impact, hands down, and is doing it...... mario william, an amazing player,......so all they have to do is not run to his side, which was made evident from our last game......so thats his glory, they don't run it to his side.....any decent team in the nfl can deal with that its a part of the game.....you can't do that to vince, the ball is in his hands everytime he steps on that field.....

whatever, we didn't pick him, past is the past, it just seems so ridiculous that people can even compare what he is doing to other rookies....

DenverBorn
12-08-2006, 07:52 PM
I'm sorry but there was nothing but Combine stats to suggest that Mario should be the number one pick. Those of you who wanted Mario are just drinking the McNair/Casserly/Kubiak kool-aid. He was anything but dominant in college and played for a 5-6 team where he wasn't always a starter. I think I heard Lionel Dalton's name a whole lot more than Mario Williams's name last weekend. He may end up being servicable but certainly not worthy of the first pick in the draft

But forget about Mario I wanted Vince because he's Vince. Not because I was a Carr hater (which I have since become) but because Vince comes along once a decade. There are several Marios a year.

thunderkyss
12-08-2006, 10:08 PM
I'm sorry but there was nothing but Combine stats to suggest that Mario should be the number one pick. Those of you who wanted Mario are just drinking the McNair/Casserly/Kubiak kool-aid. He was anything but dominant in college and played for a 5-6 team where he wasn't always a starter. I think I heard Lionel Dalton's name a whole lot more than Mario Williams's name last weekend. He may end up being servicable but certainly not worthy of the first pick in the draft

But forget about Mario I wanted Vince because he's Vince. Not because I was a Carr hater (which I have since become) but because Vince comes along once a decade. There are several Marios a year.

That's Crazy...... Mario was a beast in college, and reiterated as much at the combine.... he was not a pass rusher, even though he led his team in sacks, he is a run stopper...... that's how he plays the game today in the NFL.

His measurables make us believe that he will be an amazing pass rusher, thereby becoming the most complete DE in the NFL.

Mario has played more downs than any of our Defensive linemen, & I've not seen him take a play off yet.

Prior to the draft, we kept talking about how you can't judge Mario by his sack count..... but people want to go back and look at how his sacks in college came against week teams, and he didn't record any sacks against the stronger competition.

But the fact is, that Mario was and is a run stopper. check his college stats for tackles, and tackles for a loss.......

Then look at his combine numbers, and tell me why you couldn't coach him into a beast of a DE.

Just like Vick, Vince, McNabb, Cullpepper..... early in their careers, let them play their game(for Mario, that's playing the run)... as they get to be comfortable, as the game slows down, help them develop(McNabb has become one of the most proficient passers in the league, while still being a very mobile, elusive QB)... with Regards to Mario..... forget about sacks, let him play his game..... then as the game starts to slow down for him, he'll get you your sacks, your hurries, your tackles for losses..... your INTs.... your fumbles...... etc... etc... etc......

Mr teX
12-08-2006, 10:44 PM
Defense wins championships. With that being said, i think you know where i stand. In case any of you weren't watching last year we were pretty much dead last or bottom 10 in EVERY defensive category.

As pathetic as it sounds we were in in desperate need of defensive help. Enter Mario & Meco the 2 cornerstones. were just a FS, CB & LB away from being solid. & for all the Vince fans, he didn't win a NC until that Defense came of age his jr. year!!!!:brickwall

Mr teX
12-08-2006, 10:52 PM
:brickwall here is an educated argument, vince young a rookie qb, leads his team to 2 come back victories against the giants and the colts.....the colts mind you who have never ever lost when up by 14pts since dungee has been there, i guess this was luck, and i guess he got lucky two weeks in a row, and i guess he just has a better all around team so thats why he can win, or maybe its because he's a leader, and in this short amount of time, he has the entire team believing in him, this is what makes him the best, he is in a position as qb to have the biggest impact, hands down, and is doing it...... mario william, an amazing player,......so all they have to do is not run to his side, which was made evident from our last game......so thats his glory, they don't run it to his side.....any decent team in the nfl can deal with that its a part of the game.....you can't do that to vince, the ball is in his hands everytime he steps on that field.....

whatever, we didn't pick him, past is the past, it just seems so ridiculous that people can even compare what he is doing to other rookies....


Like i've said in previous threads, The titans were better than us last year WITHOUT Vince, Lets not make more of that than it actually is. & if you watched the Giants game you KNOW that was luck. Kiwanuka had him dead to rights on a 4th down & then just let him go!:brickwall. If He does what he's supposed to do that game is over. Likewise If you go back & look at the game they played against us. The colts game was just a good game by the team as a whole.

The kid wants to win, but stop ignoring other factors as if it was all Vince. Football is a TEAM sport fellas.

DenverBorn
12-09-2006, 08:50 AM
We got better defensive help in the second round than in the first. I think Mario is probably fine, just not worth the first pick in the draft. "Run-stopping" DE's are available every year in free agency and in the draft. You guys are applauding basic competency when we should get a lot more than that when we choose to pass on Vince Young

Bongo59
12-09-2006, 09:22 AM
Defense wins championships. With that being said, i think you know where i stand. In case any of you weren't watching last year we were pretty much dead last or bottom 10 in EVERY defensive category.

As pathetic as it sounds we were in in desperate need of defensive help. Enter Mario & Meco the 2 cornerstones. were just a FS, CB & LB away from being solid. & for all the Vince fans, he didn't win a NC until that Defense came of age his jr. year!!!!:brickwallTEX...........do me a favor...............look at the Titans D the last three yrs...................we were as bad if not worse than the Texans................why? sure we needed defensive help but the real issue is our D was on the field all day and because our O and QB could not sustain drives................what changed this yr...............well via the first 4 games with Kerry Collins nothing changed it was the same story..............until VY came in a we sustained drives and increased TOP. You know how we beat the Colts...............we held them to three possession in the second half because of an OFFENSIVE player we drafted....................PROBLEM IN HOUSTON HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE GM and passing on Bush and VY was plain WRONG no matter if you like it or not................and CARR was never the answer............he has had 5 yrs to show what VY has in 8 GS..............oh and if you still go look at our defensive stats they still look bad...................but watch them play now with VY and you will see why what difference a QB who can sustain first downs means to a D.

The Dream
12-09-2006, 10:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think a lot of fans don't dislike Mario Williams. It's not about Mario over Vince. Personally, I was for drafting Reggie Bush and I was bummed out big time when we passed him up. As for VY, I've been a fan of his since his days at Madison High. What a lot of fans are mad or angered about is that with the no.1 pick you get value. I'm sorry, but I'll take a good QB over a good DE with the no.1 pick anyday. A QB does more for his team than a defensive end will ever do. Now I know other teams didn't want to trade up so our FO decided Mario is the best guy for us. I was upset with that pick but I got over it and I like Mario and I know what he brings to our team. With Mario and DeMeco our defense can be a great. And hopefully this week Mario, DeMeco, and most importantly the whole team will show that we are going in the right direction.


for a second I thought I was reading my own post.

Mario. Not even a close call.


LOL, seriously what is the big deal about Mario?...Hate to break it to you, but the guy has been "mediocre" (meaning average) at best....yes he played good.......but it was against the RAIDERS!!!!!.....and VY is more than a "rushing" QB....he's a winner/leader, with a good pocket presence who will make the big plays for you (whether it be with his arm or his legs)

thunderkyss
12-09-2006, 11:44 AM
We got better defensive help in the second round than in the first. I think Mario is probably fine, just not worth the first pick in the draft. "Run-stopping" DE's are available every year in free agency and in the draft. You guys are applauding basic competency when we should get a lot more than that when we choose to pass on Vince Young

I could argue that no one would have heard the name DemecoRyans had Mario not been drafted.
True, our defensive line doesn't look like it's doing much, but the only person on our DL that gets constant pressure, constant push, is Mario Williams. Every now & then, we are seeing KC/Cowboy/Jacksonville rejects making some noise......

I used to defend TJ..... and root for him... but after still performing poorly next to Mario....... when you see Dalton, ThomasJohnson, & Maddox all outperforming him.... he's a waste of a roster spot.

The only thing that worried me about Mario...... was that he was thought to take plays off..... 12 games later, I haven't seen that.

If you're going to tell me run stopping DEs can be had later in the draft, I'd agree with you. At the same time, running option QBs can also be had....... ReggieMcNeal.....

But Vince is much more than just a running QB........ & Mario is much more than just a runstopping DE.

Vince is a runner, who can throw........ Mario is a runstopper, who can pass rush....

Kaiser Toro
12-09-2006, 12:19 PM
I could argue that no one would have heard the name DemecoRyans had Mario not been drafted.
True, our defensive line doesn't look like it's doing much, but the only person on our DL that gets constant pressure, constant push, is Mario Williams. Every now & then, we are seeing KC/Cowboy/Jacksonville rejects making some noise......

I used to defend TJ..... and root for him... but after still performing poorly next to Mario....... when you see Dalton, ThomasJohnson, & Maddox all outperforming him.... he's a waste of a roster spot.

The only thing that worried me about Mario...... was that he was thought to take plays off..... 12 games later, I haven't seen that.

If you're going to tell me run stopping DEs can be had later in the draft, I'd agree with you. At the same time, running option QBs can also be had....... ReggieMcNeal.....

But Vince is much more than just a running QB........ & Mario is much more than just a runstopping DE.

Vince is a runner, who can throw........ Mario is a runstopper, who can pass rush....

Good post. The bolded piece is the bitter silent truth, in my opinion, for TJ supporters like myself.

TEXANRED
12-09-2006, 09:12 PM
Mario is my answer.

Defense wins championships.

Besides, we are in line to be able to draft Troy Smith this year. A fast, athletic QB that is accurate and a cannon for an arm. Not to mention an upcoming national tittle and the Heisman this year.

Yes folks, thats what I call having my cake and eating it too.

Knowing the Texans they will trade out of the first round and choose a kicker with there first pick. Nothing they do on draft day can surprise me at this point.

Napa Auto Parts
12-09-2006, 09:21 PM
ill say mario since there is no turning back i just hope mario doesnt turn out to be a bust like our other 1st overall pick i like mario but i would give anything to have a winner like vince.

Dr. Toro
12-09-2006, 09:59 PM
This team should have drafted Vince... but that took a certain leap of faith in his intangibles. I understand the Mario pick and support it, it's great, if suboptimal.

Mario will be an annual Pro-Bowl guy if he works hard and can stay healthy (the foot issues are cause for concern). For critics or cynics, Mario is a disappointment because he's not Julius Peppers. He'll never be peppers, he can be reggie white.

TEXANRED
12-09-2006, 10:21 PM
This team should have drafted Vince... but that took a certain leap of faith in his intangibles. I understand the Mario pick and support it, it's great, if suboptimal.

Mario will be an annual Pro-Bowl guy if he works hard and can stay healthy (the foot issues are cause for concern). For critics or cynics, Mario is a disappointment because he's not Julius Peppers. He'll never be peppers, he can be reggie white.

so you think Peppers is better than White!!!!!!!!!??????

QB75
12-09-2006, 10:25 PM
It's a mute point. Why ponder what will never be....

It's a moot point as well. Vince is just another opposing QB passing through town. Culpepper, Brunell, Losman, Vince,.... no big deal.

Dr. Toro
12-09-2006, 10:39 PM
so you think Peppers is better than White!!!!!!!!!??????

No. I don't know how you would infer that. I was simply saying that the Peppers comparisons have been difficult for Mario because he doesn't show up as visibly during the game or in the highlights making the plays Peppers makes.

Reggie White is the best defensive lineman of all time, I was complimenting Mario's upside. He and Peppers are completely different players and not wholly comparable. Peppers is the best defensive player of this era, however and really shuts down a full third of the field for an opposing QB. Merriman will give Peppers a run for his money with his insanity/sacks... Peppers does more things vs. the passing game than Merriman. What made Reggie White great was a ridiculous competitive nature, in addition to some freakish traits. Peppers is a freak too and has phenomenal instincts on the football field.

QB75
12-09-2006, 10:43 PM
for a second I thought I was reading my own post.



LOL, seriously what is the big deal about Mario?...Hate to break it to you, but the guy has been "mediocre" (meaning average) at best....yes he played good.......but it was against the RAIDERS!!!!!.....and VY is more than a "rushing" QB....he's a winner/leader, with a good pocket presence who will make the big plays for you (whether it be with his arm or his legs)

Not surprised at your opinion. Matches that of the average (meaning "mediocre") fan.

Titan "Tack" Fan
12-10-2006, 04:08 PM
http://images.chron.com/photos/2006/12/10/4418041/311xInlineGallery.jpg

El Amigo Invisible
12-10-2006, 04:09 PM
Vince Young Please