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El Tejano
12-06-2006, 12:21 PM
I am guessing a center next offseason is in order?

brewhaus
12-06-2006, 12:29 PM
I am guessing a center next offseason is in order?

Yes, among other positions.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/news/2006/12/texans-draft-debate-2007-edition.html

Hervoyel
12-06-2006, 02:01 PM
I am so sick of the constant drone that Kubiak won't draft a RB early. The guy in your link Brewhaus repeats it for what must be the ten thousandth time and as usual points to Denvers track record of drafting backs late in the draft (with the exception of Portis). That's his basis for saying the Texans won't go for Adrian Peterson.

All kubiak did was try and pick a back in the first round during his first draft here in Houston but nobody bothers to make note of that. If he'd had his way we would have drafted DeAngelo Williams late in the first after trading back up to snag him and this has absolutely nothing to do with Hodgdon or the Texans need for a center......nevermind.

El Tejano
12-06-2006, 02:13 PM
All kubiak did was try and pick a back in the first round during his first draft here in Houston but nobody bothers to make note of that. If he'd had his way we would have drafted DeAngelo Williams late in the first after trading back up to snag him and this has absolutely nothing to do with Hodgdon or the Texans need for a center......nevermind.

Oh but it brings up some real good anticipation. Hey Kubes even stated that our RB don't do a good job of making people miss.

mexican_texan
12-06-2006, 02:39 PM
The Broncos could stick anyone in there because of the line. Get a respectable line, you magically end up with a 1.000 yard back.

Errant Hothy
12-06-2006, 02:49 PM
I am so sick of the constant drone that Kubiak won't draft a RB early. The guy in your link Brewhaus repeats it for what must be the ten thousandth time and as usual points to Denvers track record of drafting backs late in the draft (with the exception of Portis). That's his basis for saying the Texans won't go for Adrian Peterson.

All kubiak did was try and pick a back in the first round during his first draft here in Houston but nobody bothers to make note of that. If he'd had his way we would have drafted DeAngelo Williams late in the first after trading back up to snag him and this has absolutely nothing to do with Hodgdon or the Texans need for a center......nevermind.

And I've wished we would have been able to get him all year, kid is starting to turn into a damn fine RB.

real
12-06-2006, 02:58 PM
And I've wished we would have been able to get him all year, kid is starting to turn into a damn fine RB.

You know we'd have had to skip over Meco...

No thanks....

Hervoyel
12-06-2006, 03:00 PM
You know we'd have had to skip over Meco...

No thanks....


I agree with you on this. If I could have had Williams and Ryans then sure, I'd do that even if I only got one of my 3rd round tackles but I wouldn't give up Ryans to get a good RB right now after what I've seen this year. Something special is going on with DeMeco Ryans. It's nice to see that happen in a Texans uniform for a change.

Errant Hothy
12-06-2006, 03:03 PM
You know we'd have had to skip over Meco...

No thanks....

If that was the price, then no. But for anything after that or even a pick this year I would have been all over it.

I had never thought that teh Willimas trade up would have lead to Ryans not being a Texan. Did the football gods favor us on that Saturday or what.

Seņor Stan
12-06-2006, 03:03 PM
And I've wished we would have been able to get him all year, kid is starting to turn into a damn fine RB.

At the expense of DeMeco and Owen Daniels...

I think the Texans were targeting trading with the Bears at the # 26 spot. I don't think the Texans would have given up a 3rd rounder though. Too expensive (840 pts vs 700 on the infamous draft chart) Trading their 4th rounder would have made some sense (692 pts vs. 700 pts).

I think Buffalo might have screwed the plan up by shipping their #42 and #73 to the Bears.

That is likely what it would have cost. Sometimes the best deals are the ones that aren't made.

Texans Horror
12-06-2006, 04:43 PM
I think Kubiak is not too concerned with his running corps right now. Lundy is pretty good for a rookie, and if Dayne continues to improve, they will be an impressive 1st/2nd half punch. I think the Center position is the one that the Texans will want to upgrade. Kubiak has made the comment before (sorry, no source) that Hodgdon isn't the best size for Center. I don't expect him to be here next year. I expect a center drafted in the first day.

mexican_texan
12-06-2006, 04:50 PM
Kalil from USC. Write it down.

Texans Horror
12-06-2006, 04:57 PM
What is it about Kalil that stands out?

mexican_texan
12-06-2006, 05:05 PM
He is an obvious fit for a zone blocking scheme.

painekiller
12-07-2006, 06:00 AM
Kalil from USC. Write it down.

And I say Datish fits better. Opinions we all have them.

Texans Horror
12-07-2006, 09:43 AM
He is an obvious fit for a zone blocking scheme.

Good to know. I'm assuming big, fast, and smart. Awesome.

mexican_texan
12-07-2006, 09:46 AM
Gets off blocks quickly.

nunusguy
12-07-2006, 09:53 AM
Kubiak has made the comment before (sorry, no source) that Hodgdon isn't the best size for Center. I don't expect him to be here next year. I expect a center drafted in the first day.

Hodgdon is bigger than longtime Bronco center Tom Nalen, who is generally
considered one of the best ZB centers in recent times. If Kubiak has some reservations about Drew, I don't think its his size.
And very unlikely the Texans use a first day pick on an interior OLineman. Tackles yea, but not a center or gaurd.

Vinny
12-07-2006, 09:55 AM
Hodgdon is bigger than longtime Bronco center Tom Nalen, who is generally
considered one of the best ZB centers in recent times. If Kubiak has some reservations about Drew, I don't think its his size.
And very unlikely the Texans use a first day pick on an interior OLineman. Tackles yea, but not a center or gaurd.most of Hodgdon's weight and strength is upstairs....he isn't very powerful downstairs...and that is what is key inside. Personally, I don't think he has enough junk in the trunk.

Runner
12-07-2006, 10:08 AM
I don't know how much the Texans should try to mimic the Denver o-line physically. The Denver line is unusual in its size and effectiveness.

Maybe instead of trying to copy something that works even though it is rare we should try to run a similar scheme with more standard players. Why try to build something rare when building something more easily achievable would still improve us by leaps and bounds?

IIRC, the coaches gave all the Texans players their weight goals before they did any practicing in pads. The coaches seemed to make their decisions based on Denver's physical measurements before they saw how quick, agile, and strong the Texans were at their usual playing weight. That may have been a mistake.

Texans Horror
12-07-2006, 10:08 AM
But I agree with you that a first-round pick on a center is probably not the best use of that pick.

Texans Horror
12-07-2006, 10:14 AM
I don't know how much the Texans should try to mimic the Denver o-line physically. The Denver line is unusual in its size and effectiveness.

Maybe instead of trying to copy something that works even though it is rare we should try to run a similar scheme with more standard players. Why try to build something rare when building something more easily achievable would still improve us by leaps and bounds?

IIRC, the coaches gave all the Texans players their weight goals before they did any practicing in pads. The coaches seemed to make their decisions based on Denver's physical measurements before they saw how quick, agile, and strong the Texans were at their usual playing weight. That may have been a mistake.

I wonder how much the average weight drop has been for the veteran players from last season to this season. I have heard reports of linemen losing 30+ pounds. Are the Texans linemen really that much lighter?

nunusguy
12-07-2006, 10:17 AM
most of Hodgdon's weight and strength is upstairs....he isn't very powerful downstairs...and that is what is key inside. Personally, I don't think he has enough junk in the trunk.
I dunno, but there is something to what you say. I remember seeing Hodgdon up close at one of the open scrimmages last year (2005), and Hodgdon did
have what I would describe as a disproportionate physique. You know, like Reggie Bush. Huge arms & biceps, but smaller thighs in proportion to his upper body. Of course Bush does have good length in his limbs whereas Drew is stubby. There's a first I'm sure. A comparison of Drew Hodgdon to Reggie Bush.
But no doubt football is first and most of all played from the butt down and not up top, though upper body strength is important.

Runner
12-07-2006, 10:20 AM
I wonder how much the average weight drop has been for the veteran players from last season to this season. I have heard reports of linemen losing 30+ pounds. Are the Texans linemen really that much lighter?

I think there was some weight loss in most of them before training camp. Interestingly enough, the guy that stayed the heaviest - Spencer - was a big fan favorite for his power. Go figure.

I have heard an interesting story about the poster boy for light lineman, Denver's LT Matt Lepsis. He is listed at 6'4" 290 lbs. The story is that he strapped weights to his legs under his shorts to get up to that weight during weigh-ins. If that is true, he is a very light lineman for this era. It may just be an urban legend though.

nunusguy
12-07-2006, 10:32 AM
IIRC, the coaches gave all the Texans players their weight goals before they did any practicing in pads. The coaches seemed to make their decisions based on Denver's physical measurements before they saw how quick, agile, and strong the Texans were at their usual playing weight. That may have been a mistake.
But OLineman in particular deliberately bulk up, both thru diet and weight training. For example, Hodgdon was on SR610 earlier this week and he said he got up to 320 in his senior year of college by eating pizzas every night.
And you'd just assume a person is quicker, more agile at a weight which is 3,4, or 5 % lower than a previous weight.Quickness, agility > important in ZB than bulk & mass, as long as strength is not compromised.

Runner
12-07-2006, 10:45 AM
Quickness, agility > important in ZB than bulk & mass, as long as strength is not compromised.

That is Denver's unique formula, which is my point. There are other teams that zone block with heavier lineman.

Also, the "as long as strength is not compromised" caveat is important. Strength and sheer bulk are important to o-lineman. I think strength is compromised when they have guys in their mid-twenties playing below their college weights. Of course, this is a complex issue and I don't have any data on individual people to prove or disprove what I think.

I think more strength and bulk is good as long as the minimum quickness level is reached. To go to extremes, why don't they use 250 pound lineman who are even quicker?

I guess what I'm saying is that as long as the quickness and agiltiy requirements are met, bigger/stronger is still better.

real
12-07-2006, 10:55 AM
That is Denver's unique formula, which is my point. There are other teams that zone block with heavier lineman.


When I was in highschool we ran ZBS and I weighed about 320 lbs, and I was the biggest lineman on the starting line...My coach told me that the ZBS wasn't good for lineman over 300lbs, so he asked me to lose weight....I lost a little....But I was pretty quick for my size....

When I went to college, they ran the ZBS also....But it was totally different....Wheras I was the the biggest lineman at my highschool, I was the second smallest in college....They had bigger lineman, and they blocked differently...It was still ZBS but it wasn't the fast moving, up tempo that I had been used to at my highschool...

So you're right...there are different variations of the ZBS, and Im pretty sure the Texans originally wanted to go for that Denver esque scheme, but we've only had one off-season, and i'm not sure they have the personnel yet...

painekiller
12-07-2006, 12:51 PM
So you're right...there are different variations of the ZBS, and Im pretty sure the Texans originally wanted to go for that Denver esque scheme, but we've only had one off-season, and i'm not sure they have the personnel yet...

Thank you for pointing this out. Most people do not understand the ZBS has different forms. The Jimmy Johnson Cowboy's ran a ZBS. They were the biggest OL in football at the time.

But that is a different animal then Denver runs, it's about quickness and teamwork. Our team has not the correct players, nor the time together to run the system correctly.

And also to add, the ZBS is a run blocking scheme, it has nothing to do with pass protection, other than the smaller linemen require the the team to use more designed roll outs for the pass protection.

Runner
12-07-2006, 01:23 PM
1) But that is a different animal then Denver runs, it's about quickness and teamwork. Our team has not the correct players, nor the time together to run the system correctly.

2) And also to add, the ZBS is a run blocking scheme, it has nothing to do with pass protection, other than the smaller linemen require the the team to use more designed roll outs for the pass protection.

1) Right, so my question remains the same. Is it wise to try to emulate a unique offense that is probably much harder to make work than one of the more "mainstream" zone blocking styles, especially given popint 2) and our history with pass protection.