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View Full Version : Carr is Mr Sack. It's all him. This week is your proof.


lod01
12-06-2006, 10:17 AM
Sage Rosenfels vs TEN on 10/29/2006: 18-25 186 3 TD/1 INT.

ZERO sacks.

Sage for the year: 27-39. 1 SACK. IF that was Carr, there would be 3-4 sacks. He averages 1 sack every 10 attempts. Why is it that Sage doesn't behind the same line?

Carr this week vs TEN:

I'll fill it in after the game but he will suck.

Carr vs TEN last year, 7 and 6 sacks.

joedinkle
12-06-2006, 10:21 AM
are you really blaming the sacks on Carr? I'm no Carr homer. I think we should build up the o-line this off season, and if he still cant perform, dump him, so there's no carr love in what i'm saying. but seriously. you're blaming the sacks on carr?

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 10:21 AM
Do you really want to go so far as saying ITS ALL DAVID CARR??

real
12-06-2006, 10:23 AM
Do you really want to go so far as saying ITS ALL DAVID CARR??

I'm not going to go that far....

But I will say that Sage is a better QB than Carr...

HOU-TEX
12-06-2006, 10:26 AM
Yeah.

After further review. Carr played in that game too.

Carr: 15-21 ZERO TDs/1 INT...yes, 4 more sacks.

So who was blocking for Carr that game and who was blocking for Rosenfels?

THE SAME PEOPLE.

Let us not forget the fumbles which occured after Carrs sacks.:brickwall

Second Honeymoon
12-06-2006, 10:27 AM
are you really blaming the sacks on Carr? I'm no Carr homer. I think we should build up the o-line this off season, and if he still cant perform, dump him, so there's no carr love in what i'm saying. but seriously. you're blaming the sacks on carr?

so are you so naive to think that sacks are all the Offensive Line's fault. sacks are a stat that are both the fault of QB and OL. To be honest, in the first 2 years a lot of the sacks were the OL's fault but the past 2 years many have been Carr's.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 10:30 AM
How easy is it to sit here and say Sage is the better QB?? Dude, barely played. His sample size is extremely minimal... so its all a guessing game.

You give Sage an entire year behind an O-line that has gotten progressively more injured week after week, and obviously worse in play....and I would like to think he would stink it up too.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 10:39 AM
Same sample of turdman carr in the same game.

Carr = sack. It's so obvious. But the Carr lovers will blame anything but him.

So if you are going off this sample size for Sage...and multiply it to add up to a full season. We have a PRO BOWL QB on our bench??? Exactly. Its such a small sample size, you really can't conclude a whole lot.

I'm no Carr lover, but I can also see that a back up QB Sage Rose would not save this team either.

You can also take sample sizes for Carr from back earlier in the season when our O-Line was more healthy, or during that 7-9 year when Carr had time... he was a very effecient QB,etc.. Doesnt mean that he truly is.

Bottom line for me is when the QB is our MAIN issue.... all our other positions have been solved, and we are basically ready for the playoffs. We were 2-14 last year. We still have a LONG way to go. It wasnt all going to be fixed in ONE YEAR.

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 10:48 AM
So if you are going off this sample size for Sage...and multiply it to add up to a full season. We have a PRO BOWL QB on our bench??? Exactly. Its such a small sample size, you really can't conclude a whole lot.

I'm no Carr lover, but I can also see that a back up QB Sage Rose would not save this team either.

You can also take sample sizes for Carr from back earlier in the season when our O-Line was more healthy, or during that 7-9 year when Carr had time... he was a very effecient QB,etc.. Doesnt mean that he truly is.

Bottom line for me is when the QB is our MAIN issue.... all our other positions have been solved, and we are basically ready for the playoffs. We were 2-14 last year. We still have a LONG way to go. It wasnt all going to be fixed in ONE YEAR.

Carefull there Tailgate.... With a post like that you will get labled a Carr Pimp...

People wont read your post and take it at face value. They will railroad you as a Carr Lover or Apologist, rather than looking at some of the good points you make....

A Texan
12-06-2006, 10:51 AM
How easy is it to sit here and say Sage is the better QB?? Dude, barely played. His sample size is extremely minimal... so its all a guessing game.

You give Sage an entire year behind an O-line that has gotten progressively more injured week after week, and obviously worse in play....and I would like to think he would stink it up too.
That's the big problem. Everything has always been given to David Carr. He's never had to earn it. And with Rosenfel's superior performance, I would have thought they would have given him more of a chance to prove whether he could do it again. They didn't. It's always been that it's David's job no matter what and they won't even consider anybody else.

Porky
12-06-2006, 10:52 AM
Some of the more astute posters (and they know who they are) have been saying for years Carr should get credit for leading the league in sacks. He ranks right up there with Reggie White and Bruce Smith. As for how do we know Sage is better than Carr, umm, because he isn't Carr. I would bench Carr and start Owen Daniels if I had to. I'm tired of watching week after week of total ineptutide at the QB spot. I would rather play pretty much anyone at this point whose last name is not Carr. Heck, I bet even Daniels can hold on to the ball when sacked.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 10:57 AM
That's the big problem. Everything has always been given to David Carr. He's never had to earn it. And with Rosenfel's superior performance, I would have thought they would have given him more of a chance to prove whether he could do it again. They didn't. It's always been that it's David's job no matter what and they won't even consider anybody else.

Again, I am NO CARR LOVER. From what I remember... Carr bounced back well from the benching. The Carr critics were silent. There have been a couple of harsh Oline injuries since then as well. Either way... I just put my trust into Kubiak. He is a QB guy ALL THE WAY. Not to mention its only his first year. People like to question him passing up Vince all the time. That will probably turn out to be a mistake....but lets not overlook the fact that we could also have another Julious Peppers on our hands. I will take that. And Demeco... nothing to say there. Owen Daniels, Spencer, Lundy,etc,etc...

A few more drafts like these... and it WILL interpret into a winning team.

Times are tough... and its always the easiest to put all the blame on the QB. Just the way it goes I guess.

dalemurphy
12-06-2006, 11:20 AM
I guess that would make Rosenfels soft or injury-prone. Apparently, he gets hurt every time he gets hit. Does anyone in Houston remember Chris Chandler?

Hervoyel
12-06-2006, 11:26 AM
From what I recall Carr didn't so much "bounce back well" from being benched as he "bounced back careful". There was no light suddenly coming on and there was no distinctly different David Carr to be seen (not that you're saying that or anything). I'm just thinking it over and I've seen a number of people mention that he bounced back well from being benched and I didn't really see anything to get excited about. It was just the normal ebb and flow of his game in my opinion.

Double Barrel
12-06-2006, 11:37 AM
Carr is not a leader that inspires his offensive linemen to protect him at all costs. If you think none of the sacks are his fault, the you've got blinders on. I don't blame him for all the sacks, but he doesn't have the best pocket presence, and hardly ever gets himself out of the grasp of a defender. He certainly never seems to 'feel the heat' of the rush...at least not lately.

He's not a clutch QB, either. He's a guy that needs a pro-bowl line and pro-bowl receivers, along with a dominant defense, for him to be on a winning team.

So the question fans have to ask themselves is if they want a 'Trent Dilfer'-type QB on this team...and, if so, perhaps he should take less money in his contract so the team can afford all that pro-bowl talent to put around him.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 11:38 AM
From what I recall Carr didn't so much "bounce back well" from being benched as he "bounced back careful". There was no light suddenly coming on and there was no distinctly different David Carr to be seen (not that you're saying that or anything). I'm just thinking it over and I've seen a number of people mention that he bounced back well from being benched and I didn't really see anything to get excited about. It was just the normal ebb and flow of his game in my opinion.

You probably have a point. He didnt exactly tear it up. Just saying... it didnt necessarily warrant a Sage replacement EITHER. If it werent for 2 stupid Cook fumbles (giants, and Bills). After the benching... Carr could have "led" us to 3 straight wins. The numbers werent all that impressive... but neither are Youngs. But they win, and he gets all the credit of course.

Sage very well may have been better than Carr if they replaced him. Again, its all opinions at this point.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 11:41 AM
Carr is not a leader that inspires his offensive linemen to protect him at all costs. If you think none of the sacks are his fault, the you've got blinders on. I don't blame him for all the sacks, but he doesn't have the best pocket presence, and hardly ever gets himself out of the grasp of a defender. He certainly never seems to 'feel the heat' of the rush...at least not lately.

He's not a clutch QB, either. He's a guy that needs a pro-bowl line and pro-bowl receivers, along with a dominant defense, for him to be on a winning team.

So the question fans have to ask themselves is if they want a 'Trent Dilfer'-type QB on this team...and, if so, perhaps he should take less money in his contract so the team can afford all that pro-bowl talent to put around him.


Well, most NFL teams do. There are only so many Bradys to go around. And if thats the case... thats what we have to go for. It wouldnt hurt even IF David is the man. But really, besides passing up VY (in the past)... who else is availabel that we could stick back there and NOT need the same thing?

kingh99
12-06-2006, 11:42 AM
are you really blaming the sacks on Carr? I'm no Carr homer. I think we should build up the o-line this off season, and if he still cant perform, dump him, so there's no carr love in what i'm saying. but seriously. you're blaming the sacks on carr?

Joe, you were 16 when they started building the line for David. You gonna wait until you're 60 for it to work.

alphajoker
12-06-2006, 11:43 AM
Sage Rosenfels vs TEN on 10/29/2006: 18-25 186 3 TD/1 INT.

ZERO sacks.

Sage for the year: 27-39. 1 SACK. IF that was Carr, there would be 3-4 sacks. He averages 1 sack every 10 attempts. Why is it that Sage doesn't behind the same line?

Carr this week vs TEN:

I'll fill it in after the game but he will suck.

Carr vs TEN last year, 7 and 6 sacks.

:listening

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 11:51 AM
Joe, you were 16 when they started building the line for David. You gonna wait until you're 60 for it to work.

They started building a line?

real
12-06-2006, 11:59 AM
How easy is it to sit here and say Sage is the better QB?? Dude, barely played. His sample size is extremely minimal... so its all a guessing game.

You give Sage an entire year behind an O-line that has gotten progressively more injured week after week, and obviously worse in play....and I would like to think he would stink it up too.

We would all like to think he'd stink it up too.....

But I don't care about stats....or production for that matter.....For the most part I tend to judge players by watching them play...Looking at subtle things like footwork, pocket presence, how they react under pressure, how they react to adversity....And since we're talking about QB's I also look at how the team reacts to said QB.....

Carr would get an F in all those categories....

IMO, it almost seems as if the team was revitalized with Sage behind center....Think about it....If everytime you see a guy play he's looked pretty well, and your current starter is playing so poorly, as a member of that team, would you not kinda, sorta, maybe, just a lil bit wanna see what the back-up can do ?

real
12-06-2006, 12:01 PM
They started building a line?

Forget the line....

It's almost like you're saying Carr is only as good as his line....

Double Barrel
12-06-2006, 12:03 PM
Well, most NFL teams do. There are only so many Bradys to go around. And if thats the case... thats what we have to go for. It wouldnt hurt even IF David is the man. But really, besides passing up VY (in the past)... who else is availabel that we could stick back there and NOT need the same thing?

That is the million dollar question and part of the overall debate in the 'Carr Wars'.

Some say that nobody could prevail with this offense, others say that Carr just doesn't have the ability to manage a game due to a variety of reasons.

Do I have The Answer? Of course not, none of us do. We can speculate, throw our opinions out there, but it's all hypothetical at this point.

real
12-06-2006, 12:05 PM
Well, most NFL teams do. There are only so many Bradys to go around. And if thats the case... thats what we have to go for. It wouldnt hurt even IF David is the man. But really, besides passing up VY (in the past)... who else is availabel that we could stick back there and NOT need the same thing?

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here....

Are you saying that you're willing to settle for a QB being paid like he is, who is only as good as his line ?


And we'll never know who else can succeed in our offense at this rate...

kingh99
12-06-2006, 12:07 PM
They started building a line?

Yeah everyone dogs the line for ole daves numerous brain farts. the play starts before the ball is snapped.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 12:16 PM
Forget the line....

It's almost like you're saying Carr is only as good as his line....

Well, sometimes QB's arein fact. Ever heard the old saying... the game is WON in the trenches?? In this case... I think Carr isnt a great or even good QB. I just see what I see.... and last Sunday, I saw a great Oakland D run through our offensive linemen like they were turnstiles. Winston got owned on almost EVERY pass play.

Hike, one... two ... thrCRASH

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 12:17 PM
I don't really understand what you're trying to say here....

Are you saying that you're willing to settle for a QB being paid like he is, who is only as good as his line ?


And we'll never know who else can succeed in our offense at this rate...

I am saying... IT IS WHAT IT IS. There really are zero options right now. I would rather fix our Oline and secondary problems before I would replae Carr. And even if we did replace Carr... who could we get to replace him? Its all apart of the debate.

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 12:17 PM
Sage Rosenfels vs TEN on 10/29/2006: 18-25 186 3 TD/1 INT.

ZERO sacks.

Sage for the year: 27-39. 1 SACK. IF that was Carr, there would be 3-4 sacks. He averages 1 sack every 10 attempts. Why is it that Sage doesn't behind the same line?

Carr this week vs TEN:

I'll fill it in after the game but he will suck.

Carr vs TEN last year, 7 and 6 sacks.



So if Sage had played that whole game he could have had 6Td's 2 Int and been 36 of 50 att. Based on this game and the 3 snaps he took against the Jags he's money. We would be 12-0 with those stats, what were we thinking.

It's easy to view a cross section vs. 1 opponent, it's a baseless point as Sage is out for the season. He didn't get sacked against the Titans because they didn't even pressure him. Why? I don't know, but the D for the Titans loosened way up when SR came into the game.

real
12-06-2006, 12:23 PM
Well, sometimes QB's arein fact. Ever heard the old saying... the game is WON in the trenches?? In this case... I think Carr isnt a great or even good QB. I just see what I see.... and last Sunday, I saw a great Oakland D run through our offensive linemen like they were turnstiles. Winston got owned on almost EVERY pass play.


Well you can have your chameleon QB who only looks like what's around him....

If that's what you're satisfied with then that's what you're satisfied with...

real
12-06-2006, 12:24 PM
I am saying... IT IS WHAT IT IS. There really are zero options right now. I would rather fix our Oline and secondary problems before I would replae Carr. And even if we did replace Carr... who could we get to replace him? Its all apart of the debate.

Signed,


Jerry Jones, and a million cowboy fans who said the same thing b4 Romo took over

real
12-06-2006, 12:26 PM
I'll just go ahead and say it...and stop beating around the Reggie Bush....


OUR TEAM WOULD BE MUCH BETTER WITH BETTER QB PLAY...

no we wouldn't be contenders, but we'd be better than we are now....

You'd be amazed at how a little pocket presence would make you forget about "how bad the line is"...

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 12:30 PM
Signed,


Jerry Jones, and a million cowboy fans who said the same thing b4 Romo took over

You mean... a team that was 9-7 last year?? That added TO? A team that only a couple of years ago had Quincy Carter of all QB's lead them to 10 wins?


I will go ahead and say it. With 13 people on the IR, with lack of depth on the Line, a very THIN secondary, a lack of talent overall due to HORRID Casserly and Capers drafts, a switch of QB to Sage, or Plummer... or whom ever... would not make that much of a difference. IMO.

real
12-06-2006, 12:32 PM
You mean... a team that was 9-7 last year?? That added TO? A team that only a couple of years ago had Quincy Carter of all QB's lead them to 10 wins?

What on gods green earth does that have to do with anything ?

I never said that we will be on the Cowboys level with a QB change....

All I said was that we'll get better....

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 12:34 PM
What on gods green earth does that have to do with anything ?

I never said that we will be on the Cowboys level with a QB change....

All I said was that we'll get better....


What?? Umm.. if you want to sign me off as Jerry Jones then you need to compare the situations talent wise exactly. Its not the SAME SITUATION.

I already heard you said we would "get better."

real
12-06-2006, 12:35 PM
What?? Umm.. if you want to sign me off as Jerry Jones then you need to compare the situations talent wise exactly. Its not the SAME SITUATION.

I already heard you said we would "get better."

Maybe you just don't understand what an analogy is...

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 12:36 PM
Maybe you just don't understand what an analogy is...

Geese... never mind.

real
12-06-2006, 12:37 PM
ANALOGY= Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 12:39 PM
. Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.

lol... if you didnt catch it. I was simply pointing out how WEAK your analogy was.

real
12-06-2006, 12:40 PM
lol... if you didnt catch it. I was simply pointing out how WEAK your analogy was.

And I was pointing out that you just didn't understand....and when people tend to not understand something they describe it with colorful words such as "weak"...

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 12:42 PM
And I was pointing out that you just didn't understand....and when people tend to not understand something they describe it with colorful words such as "weak"...

Ok, this is turning into "retarded" quick. Do I really need to bring up my original post that you signed off on?? It all starts there.

kingh99
12-06-2006, 12:44 PM
So if Sage had played that whole game he could have had 6Td's 2 Int and been 36 of 50 att. Based on this game and the 3 snaps he took against the Jags he's money. We would be 12-0 with those stats, what were we thinking.

It's easy to view a cross section vs. 1 opponent, it's a baseless point as Sage is out for the season. He didn't get sacked against the Titans because they didn't even pressure him. Why? I don't know, but the D for the Titans loosened way up when SR came into the game.

Oh please. He was a joy to watch for the few minutes he was in there. He had downfield vision and accuracy. OMG OMG OMG.

We all know Sage would have started more games if McNair wasn't watching his money. You don't bench the guy you just extended. Makes you look like a complete fool. You dig in your heels and figure the public has a real short memory when it comes time to renew tickets.

Someone defined logic above. The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.

real
12-06-2006, 12:46 PM
Ok, this is turning into "retarded" quick. Do I really need to bring up my original post that you signed off on?? It all starts there.

I'll explain it one more time...

The cowboys went from point M-Z with a change....


The Texans can go from point A-M with a change...

:cowboy1:

real
12-06-2006, 12:48 PM
Im not saying we get as good as the cowboys with a change...

Im just saying we can get better....like the Cowboys did....

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 12:51 PM
I'll explain it one more time...

The cowboys went from point M-Z with a change....


The Texans can go from point A-M with a change...

:cowboy1:


Gee, thanks for breaking it all down for me! And I am telling you... with the talent on this team... NOT SO. You getting it now??

And AGAIN... MY ORIGINAL POINT when you so graciously taught me what an ANALOGY was, I was pointing out we DONT HAVE any options right now. We going to A-M with Van Pelt?? Im gonna say NO as well. Thats what I was talking about.

thunderkyss
12-06-2006, 12:59 PM
You probably have a point. He didnt exactly tear it up. Just saying... it didnt necessarily warrant a Sage replacement EITHER. If it werent for 2 stupid Cook fumbles (giants, and Bills). After the benching... Carr could have "led" us to 3 straight wins. The numbers werent all that impressive... but neither are Youngs. But they win, and he gets all the credit of course.

Sage very well may have been better than Carr if they replaced him. Again, its all opinions at this point.

I remember mentioning that the Giants game was a big game for Carr. Forget the stats...... 30 pass attempts for 176 yards.... 26 yards rushing, and a TD....

What I liked about Carr in that game, was that he made a decision, and went with it. I don't care for QBs to run with the ball, I'd rather they throw it away, and play another down.......

but in that game, if he decided to throw the ball, he threw the ball. if he decided to run with it, he ran with it.

Against the raiders, after he decided to throw the ball(cocked his arm to get ready to throw it) he thought about it(pulled the ball down), then thought about throwing it again(cocked the ball again) then got sacked. I don't know what their numbers are, but I do believe they are amoung the league leaders in sacks, and INTs... so maybe he did us a favor by not throwing the ball, but those fumbles......

Anyway, same thing with running the ball. Against the Giants, if he decided he was going to run.............BAM he was gone.... against the raiders, he'd take a step, think about throwing, then take another step...... He also tried to split the defenders in front of him, instead of backing up in the pocket. That's one of those rookie things I used to talk about all the time, but won't get into too much here.

you're right, had Cook not fumbled.... we very well may be up 2 games right now.

At the same time, had David not fumbled, we could've beat the Colts... the Skins... the Cowboys(this was actually a stare down INT)...... the Titans.... etc.........

if you want to look at it like that.

real
12-06-2006, 12:59 PM
And AGAIN... MY ORIGINAL POINT when you so graciously taught me what an ANALOGY was,I was pointing out we DONT HAVE any options right now. We going to A-M with Van Pelt?? Im gonna say NO as well. Thats what I was talking about.

Yeah!!!

Settle: the word of the day

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 01:00 PM
Oh please. He was a joy to watch for the few minutes he was in there. He had downfield vision and accuracy. OMG OMG OMG.

We all know Sage would have started more games if McNair wasn't watching his money. You don't bench the guy you just extended. Makes you look like a complete fool. You dig in your heels and figure the public has a real short memory when it comes time to renew tickets.

Someone defined logic above. The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.


Too true; and the point is ther will be no change, there can be no change. I agree Sage played a great 26 minutes of football. We will not know this season what he can do with more time, he's gone.:crutch:

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 01:05 PM
I remember mentioning that the Giants game was a big game for Carr. Forget the stats...... 30 pass attempts for 176 yards.... 26 yards rushing, and a TD....

What I liked about Carr in that game, was that he made a decision, and went with it. I don't care for QBs to run with the ball, I'd rather they throw it away, and play another down.......

but in that game, if he decided to throw the ball, he threw the ball. if he decided to run with it, he ran with it.

Against the raiders, after he decided to throw the ball(cocked his arm to get ready to throw it) he thought about it(pulled the ball down), then thought about throwing it again(cocked the ball again) then got sacked. I don't know what their numbers are, but I do believe they are amoung the league leaders in sacks, and INTs... so maybe he did us a favor by not throwing the ball, but those fumbles......

Anyway, same thing with running the ball. Against the Giants, if he decided he was going to run.............BAM he was gone.... against the raiders, he'd take a step, think about throwing, then take another step...... He also tried to split the defenders in front of him, instead of backing up in the pocket. That's one of those rookie things I used to talk about all the time, but won't get into too much here.

you're right, had Cook not fumbled.... we very well may be up 2 games right now.

At the same time, had David not fumbled, we could've beat the Colts... the Skins... the Cowboys(this was actually a stare down INT)...... the Titans.... etc.........

if you want to look at it like that.



I understand what you are saying.... I do. It does work BOTH ways. But in this case...we are referencing the 3 games AFTER he was benched. Thus... my point was Carr's play wasnt bad enough at that time to warrent the Sage replacement.

thunderkyss
12-06-2006, 01:12 PM
I'll explain it one more time...

The cowboys went from point M-Z with a change....


The Texans can go from point A-M with a change...

:cowboy1:

Good point. We'll never know how bad our offensive line is with David Carr as our QB.

Put another way..... We'll never fix our OL as long as David is our QB.

If we had steve Hutchinson, everyone would be talking about how poor he is at pass blocking.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 01:14 PM
Carefull there Tailgate.... With a post like that you will get labled a Carr Pimp...

People wont read your post and take it at face value. They will railroad you as a Carr Lover or Apologist, rather than looking at some of the good points you make....



Truer words were never spoken... lol

kingh99
12-06-2006, 01:15 PM
Good point. We'll never know how bad our offensive line is with David Carr as our QB.

Put another way..... We'll never fix our OL as long as David is our QB.

If we had steve Hutchinson, everyone would be talking about how poor he is at pass blocking.

I believe that last sentence and I believe McKinney must have run his mouth to this effect and that was the end of McKinney with Kubes. You know by the way he booted all the opinionated players from last year that he wasn't putting up with any poison in the locker room. McKinney must have cracked.

real
12-06-2006, 01:16 PM
Gee, thanks for breaking it all down for me! And I am telling you... with the talent on this team... NOT SO. You getting it now??


Forget about Wins and losses...Can I just get a TD pass ? Can we see some kind of production from our offense? Can we have a QB who isn't given all run plays the second half of a game because he was a liability ?

The problem that I have with the whole Carr needs better talent is that it's an excuse....If Carr is only as good as his line, and the talent around him, what happens when we go through the Season and guys get injured?? It's inevitable....

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 01:32 PM
Forget about Wins and losses...Can I just get a TD pass ? Can we see some kind of production from our offense? Can we have a QB who isn't given all run plays the second half of a game because he was a liability ?

The problem that I have with the whole Carr needs better talent is that it's an excuse....If Carr is only as good as his line, and the talent around him, what happens when we go through the Season and guys get injured?? It's inevitable....

Injuries are inevitable. But this year, we have had more than our fair share. 13-15 on the IR? Its depth that helps you recover from those. But there is a point... to where they are just too damaging to recover from. Especially for a team that was 2-14 last year. If we didnt have all of these nicks, and season enders on our lines... I would be right there with everyone else on our QB situation and play. But to me, these arent an excuses. Its reality.

I am not sold on Carr by any means. But Sage is hurt... and I have no idea if anyone would trade for Carr? Or would there be any free agents that could make an immediate impact next year. I too would love to see more Touchdown passess. Of course I would.

I personally think that with another year of drafting, offseason, GETTING HEALTHY... Carr is good enough for us to hang on to for now. And when we are ready for the playoffs... then hopefully be able to throw a Romo type situation in there for a spark that ignites us. Until then, we need to still concentrate on our LINES and our secondary for starters.


I am not fond of RJ... but this is a good article imo.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/4361468.html

real
12-06-2006, 01:40 PM
Injuries are inevitable. But this year, we have had more than our fair share. 13-15 on the IR? Its depth that helps you recover from those. But there is a point... to where they are just too damaging to recover from. Especially for a team that was 2-14 last year. If we didnt have all of these nicks, and season enders on our lines... I would be right there with everyone else on our QB situation and play. But to me, these arent an excuses. Its reality.

I am not sold on Carr by any means. But Sage is hurt... and I have no idea if anyone would trade for Carr? Or would there be any free agents that could make an immediate impact next year. I too would love to see more Touchdown passess. Of course I would.

I personally think that with another year of drafting, offseason, GETTING HEALTHY... Carr is good enough for us to hang on to for now. And when we are ready for the playoffs... then hopefully be able to throw a Romo type situation in there for a spark that ignites us. Until then, we need to still concentrate on our LINES and our secondary for starters.


You don't stick with a guy because you're scared you won't be able to find anyone else...

We may or may not find "our guy" immeadiately, but searching for that guy would sure beat putting the same lame product on the field...

infantrycak
12-06-2006, 01:41 PM
I am not sold on Carr by any means. But Sage is hurt... and I have no idea if anyone would trade for Carr? Or would there be any free agents that could make an immediate impact next year.

Totally valid to say replace with what. Other than rookies, guys who will or are likely to be on the market (some by trade) next off-season are:

Kerry Collins
Jeff Garcia
Damon Huard
Tim Rattay
Chris Simms
Matt Schaub (RFA)

John Kitna
Jake Plummer
Brad Johnson
Joey Harrington
Mark Brunnell
Byron Leftwich
Aaron Brooks

Anyone see anything but a long shot QB of the future there? Certainly the potential for increased short term performance.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 01:42 PM
You don't stick with a guy because you're scared you won't be able to find anyone else...

We may or may not find "our guy" immeadiately, but searching for that guy would sure beat putting the same lame product on the field...


That was the cherry on top. Not the premise of my debate.

real
12-06-2006, 01:43 PM
Carr is good enough for us to hang on to for now. And when we are ready for the playoffs... then hopefully be able to throw a Romo type situation in there for a spark that ignites us. Until then, we need to still concentrate on our LINES and our secondary for starters.


Carr has been a liability this season....

He's made some plays....But overall he has been terrible to mediocre...

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 01:45 PM
Totally valid to say replace with what. Other than rookies, guys who will or are likely to be on the market (some by trade) next off-season are:

Kerry Collins
Jeff Garcia
Damon Huard
Tim Rattay
Chris Simms
Matt Schaub (RFA)

John Kitna
Jake Plummer
Brad Johnson
Joey Harrington
Mark Brunnell
Byron Leftwich
Aaron Brooks

Anyone see anything but a long shot QB of the future there? Certainly the potential for increased short term performance.


Hmm... waiting on one of these guys to pop out at me. Obviously Garcia due to the recent play. A TOUGH one physically and mentally would be a priority imo.

CenTexNative
12-06-2006, 01:45 PM
are you really blaming the sacks on Carr? I'm no Carr homer. I think we should build up the o-line this off season, and if he still cant perform, dump him, so there's no carr love in what i'm saying. but seriously. you're blaming the sacks on carr?

Now there's someone that is finally making sense.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 01:46 PM
Carr has been a liability this season....

He's made some plays....But overall he has been terrible to mediocre...

Again... I prioritize other areas of the team above our QB play at the moment. Can we just agree to disagree here?

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 01:48 PM
Totally valid to say replace with what. Other than rookies, guys who will or are likely to be on the market (some by trade) next off-season are:

Kerry Collins
Jeff Garcia
Damon Huard
Tim Rattay
Chris Simms
Matt Schaub (RFA)

John Kitna
Jake Plummer
Brad Johnson
Joey Harrington
Mark Brunnell
Byron Leftwich
Aaron Brooks

Anyone see anything but a long shot QB of the future there? Certainly the potential for increased short term performance.



Huard played well, Garcia is fired up and Schaub isn't going anywhere. These are the only QB's that could be a step up in wins or production. I don't see Carr as the weakest link, use him another year bolster the other positions and then you can introduce a fresh QB, if you listen to some of the posters on this board there is no way Carr improves next year. If he does it must mean A: Kubiak has started to make an impact. B:The talent around him does make a difference.

real
12-06-2006, 01:50 PM
If he does it must mean A: Kubiak has started to make an impact. B:The talent around him does make a difference.

So none of the credit would go to Carr ?

Is Carr a pawn ?

CenTexNative
12-06-2006, 01:50 PM
Carr has been a liability this season....

He's made some plays....But overall he has been terrible to mediocre...So a top ten rated quarterback isn't good enough for you? Let's see.
New head coach
New offense
not very good blocking

Yeah you're right. I can see how it's ALL Davids fault. He needs to learn his blocking techniques better. :tearup:

real
12-06-2006, 01:53 PM
So a top ten rated quarterback isn't good enough for you? Let's see.
New head coach
New offense
not very good blocking

Yeah you're right. I can see how it's ALL Davids fault. He needs to learn his blocking techniques better. :tearup:



I never said "it" was ALL David's fault....whatever "it" is.....


I do however believe that he is a weak link in the chain....

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 02:32 PM
That's right, blame the line. Always the blame goes to anyone BUT the rightful place: carr.

Yeah, thank God Boseli paid off!

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 02:45 PM
Really don't know what politics has to do with any of this....

But I swear these threads and posts are absolutely hillarious...

Its like watching your dog when he finds out that he has a tail. He just keeps going and going in circles. Round and round. In the end, the outcome is always the same.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 02:50 PM
So it's boselli's fault now? Not Carr's. Even though Boselli is long gone he still gets blamed. You gotta be a republican.

FACT: I told people that giving this loser that bonus $ was flushing it down the toilet. I was correct.

Point is this... our O-Line has been doomed from the start. We take Boseli, and the other crappy one Ryan Young in the Expansion draft. One never even plays...the other is a bust. Our O-Line gives up record amounts of sacks. They even show a pre draft commercial on ESPN showing D Carr behind an invisible O-line,etc. So over the next three years we spend ONE pick in the top 3 rounds on an offensive line player. (Kubiak has picked 2 already in one year). Not so hot in free agency either. Todd Wadd? Never been a fan of McKinney either...especially when he was having to play out of position at Center. Ephram Salaam?? Dude was a reject in Jax. They laughed when we signed him.

Point is... its been a sketchy start from the beginning. Forget the QB, look at who is there for crying out loud. We finally get a REAL player in Spencer and he goes down and may NEVER be the same. Season enders to Flannigan, and Weigert dont help either. Not to mention all the injuries to the unit over the years... it seems like our Offensive linemen always seem to have to play two positions. I am telling you... WE ARE CURSED.



What, do you really think our offensive line is GOOD???

real
12-06-2006, 02:54 PM
What, do you really think our offensive line is GOOD???

I don't think Our line is good, but I think on certain occasions Carr makes them look much worse...

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 02:56 PM
I don't think Our line is good, but I think on certain occasions Carr makes them look much worse...

Maybe so. But certainly defenses who can smell our devastated O-Line with a superior passing defense to boot can also make them look much worse too. Its a combo if you axe me.

And I think its safe to say... they are BAD.

real
12-06-2006, 02:57 PM
Maybe so. But certainly defenses who can smell our devastated O-Line with a superior passing defense to boot can also make them look much worse too. Its a combo if you axe me.

Yeah a Combo of Carr Sucking, the line not being healthy, the defense....and oh yeah.....Carr sucking.....

real
12-06-2006, 02:59 PM
And I think its safe to say... they are BAD.


I don't think it's safe to say....

Most fans don't know how to judge O-lineman other than seeing one get physically beat....

Most don't even talk about a single player.....They just say the line is bad....

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 03:01 PM
I don't think it's safe to say....

Most fans don't know how to judge O-lineman other than seeing one get physically beat....

Most don't even talk about a single player.....They just say the line is bad....


Lets talk about a single player. Eric Winston.... had a GREAT day protecting Carr on Sunday. Salaam?

real
12-06-2006, 03:02 PM
Considering that we are basically playing with 3 back-ups and a guy who wasn't even on the active roster to start with, IMO, the line has done alright...

real
12-06-2006, 03:05 PM
Lets talk about a single player. Eric Winston.... had a GREAT day protecting Carr on Sunday. Salaam?

No Winston didn't have a great day....And Honestly I really don't know about Salaam.....

The only lineman that I specifically remember getting beat was Winston...Im not saying others didn't get beat, just that I don't recall off the top of my head....

But Winston is a third stringer....

Carr is a starter....Does he really have to play down to the level of Winston ?

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 03:06 PM
Considering that we are basically playing with 3 back-ups and a guy who wasn't even on the active roster to start with, IMO, the line has done alright...

Ah, so they are good...relatively speaking? I guess I am the only one who saw how quickly the D was in Carrs face last Sunday? Or the week before when the Jets (worst running D in league) was able to stop us like a brick wall? With what, 6-7 guys on the line??

I have said all along how devastating our injuries along the line have been. So yeah, I guess... considering how BAD our depth and talent is along the line, they have done alright?????

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 03:08 PM
No Winston didn't have a great day....And Honestly I really don't know about Salaam.....

The only lineman that I specifically remember getting beat was Winston...Im not saying others didn't get beat, just that I don't recall off the top of my head....

But Winston is a third stringer....

Carr is a starter....Does he really have to play down to the level of Winston ?

Play down to the level of Winston? Uhhh... the sole purpose of the lineman in a pass play is to give him time to read the field and do his job. So it STARTS with the linemen. If the first one is not done, especially as a group....then the latter will NEVER happen. Yes, you can have better pocket presense...and Carr does need to work on this. But you can only do SO much if the pocket is never there to begin with.

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 03:09 PM
I don't think it's safe to say....

Most fans don't know how to judge O-lineman other than seeing one get physically beat....

Most don't even talk about a single player.....They just say the line is bad....

Thats pretty presumptuous on your part, don't you think?

real
12-06-2006, 03:10 PM
Ah, so they are good...relatively speaking? I guess I am the only one who saw how quickly the D was in Carrs face last Sunday? Or the week before when the Jets (worst running D in league) was able to stop us like a brick wall? With what, 6-7 guys on the line??

I have said all along how devastating our injuries along the line have been. So yeah, I guess... considering how BAD our depth and talent is along the line, they have done alright?????

Have you ever watched film of an O-line and had it broken down to you by a competent coach ?

I'm just asking because if you have then I wouldn't expect certain comments I've seen from you...

real
12-06-2006, 03:11 PM
Thats pretty presumptuous on your part, don't you think?

I go as far as to say it is a fact...

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 03:11 PM
Ah, so they are good...relatively speaking? I guess I am the only one who saw how quickly the D was in Carrs face last Sunday? Or the week before when the Jets (worst running D in league) was able to stop us like a brick wall? With what, 6-7 guys on the line??

I have said all along how devastating our injuries along the line have been. So yeah, I guess... considering how BAD our depth and talent is along the line, they have done alright?????

How about the QB getting the # 1 spot on Jacked Up Monday night. Less than 2 seconds from the snap until the back of his head hit the turf.....

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 03:16 PM
Have you ever watched film of an O-line and had it broken down to you by a competent coach ?

I'm just asking because if you have then I wouldn't expect certain comments I've seen from you...


Yeah, I played football for 8 years of my life. Later years on the he D-line. I know the game fairly well.

My points were very simple. Lets take the Jets game one. If a D can stop our running game with minimal defenders... they can then focus on putting an extra saftey in the secondary thus limiting the big play. Basically implimenting a bend but dont break strategy. Our deep game is heavily hinged on the play action. If the O-LINE is not helping us establish the lanes for our RB's to run through... then no one will fall for the play action. Thus limiting the success rate of us throwing it down field.

real
12-06-2006, 03:17 PM
Play down to the level of Winston? Uhhh... the sole purpose of the lineman in a pass play is to give him time to read the field and do his job. So it STARTS with the linemen. If the first one is not done, especially as a group....then the latter will NEVER happen. Yes, you can have better pocket presense...and Carr does need to work on this. But you can only do SO much if the pocket is never there to begin with.


Again You reveal your limited knowledge....

The sole purpose of any lineman on any play is to do his job and pick up his assignment....It's not neccessarily always to make sure the QB "has time"....Sometimes that's on the QB himself...or a RB....

Sometimes a QB knows a guy isn't going to be blocked, but he's supposed to make a pre-snap read and pre-determine where the ball is supposed to go...He doesn't have the same amount of time on every play, and since you aren't in the huddle and don't know what play is being called, or how deep his drops are supposed to be you don't know what is "too fast" for a defender to be in Carr's face.....Which brings me back to my original point....There aren't very many instances where you'd be able to look at a play and determine whether an O-lineman messed up unless you see him getting physically beaten....

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 03:17 PM
How about the QB getting the # 1 spot on Jacked Up Monday night. Less than 2 seconds from the snap until the back of his head hit the turf.....

Maybe you can BREAK down that film for me when you have some time. Apparently I am missing something.

MightyTExan
12-06-2006, 03:18 PM
Looks like he's fired up for this game.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4382241.html

Regardless, Carr said he is ready for a rematch.

"I remember that game vividly — every snap," Carr said. "I remember the way the grass tasted, the way it was in the stadium, everything. And I won't forget that. I'll be ready to go."

real
12-06-2006, 03:21 PM
Yeah, I played football for 8 years of my life. Later years on the he D-line. I know the game fairly well.

My points were very simple. Lets take the Jets game one. If a D can stop our running game with minimal defenders... they can then focus on putting an extra saftey in the secondary thus limiting the big play. Basically implimenting a bend but dont break strategy. Our deep game is heavily hinged on the play action. If the O-LINE is not helping us establish the lanes for our RB's to run through... then no one will fall for the play action. Thus limiting the success rate of us throwing it down field.

Again I ask....How do you know ? What lineman aren't picking up there blocks ??? Who is it that's not a good run blocker ?

How do you know who's messing up on a run play if you don't know how it's designed ?

Or do you see the RB get minimal yardage and assume it's the lines fault ?

real
12-06-2006, 03:22 PM
Maybe you can BREAK down that film for me when you have some time. Apparently I am missing something.

I never said that the O-line doesn't make mistakes....

I really can't say much about they're run blocking, because I can't tell one way or the other without actually looking at the film...

But I do not think that our pass blocking is as bad as Carr makes it look at times...period...

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 03:27 PM
Again I ask....How do you know ? What lineman aren't picking up there blocks ??? Who is it that's not a good run blocker ?

How do you know who's messing up on a run play if you don't know how it's designed ?

Or do you see the RB get minimal yardage and assume it's the lines fault ?


lol... you are really trying to dig too deep here. Does any of this really matter when DISCUSSING THE BIG PICTURE?? We are talking about END results....OVERALL. Not one play, where yeah...one of our o-linemen missed an assignment. Or another, where the RB didnt see the hole. Or, another when the QB didnt anticipate the blitz properly. THE BIG PICTURE HERE. One in which our offense doesnt even avg 100 yards a game rushing. Or one which our offense has "allowed" the most sacks in the league since this team has been in existence.

I know what I see... you dont have to be some BIG TIME OLINE COACH to watch enough NFL to realize what a pocket SHOULD and SHOULD NOT look like.

COLLECTIVELY... we are well known across the league for having year in and year out, a bottom of the barrell O-Line. Kubiak spent 2 3rd rounders on this unit for that reason.

Its no secret.

real
12-06-2006, 03:28 PM
Yeah, I played football for 8 years of my life. Later years on the he D-line. I know the game fairly well.


Frankly i'm surprised to hear this....

I wouldn't think that anyone who has ever played OL from highschool to the pros would be so quick to jump on "The O-line".....

texan's blue
12-06-2006, 03:28 PM
I've supported Carr since day 1. I think that we made a good decision in picking up Mario Williams. With that said, I think that given Carr's inconsistent play we should have given Sage a game after what we saw him do. Maybe we (fans, Kubiak & co. and everybody else) would've seen why he has stayed a backup QB? Maybe we would've found our solution for QB, it's obvious now that Carr is not it. Maybe we would've seen that he is just a hair above or below Carr? The fact is considering the time Carr has been given and what he has and hasn't been able to do, given our current record and that of last year, Rosenfels deserved a chance. Period. If this were any other team Carr would've been benched by now. Look around the NFL, you have 2 bad games, even with a winning record and you get benched...

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 03:30 PM
I go as far as to say it is a fact...

pomp·ous
Pronunciation: 'päm-p&s
Function: adjective
1 : excessively elevated or ornate <pompous rhetoric>
2 : having or exhibiting self-importance : ARROGANT <a pompous politician>
3 : relating to or suggestive of pomp : MAGNIFICENT
- pomp·ous·ly adverb
- pomp·ous·ness noun

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 03:31 PM
Again You reveal your limited knowledge....

The sole purpose of any lineman on any play is to do his job and pick up his assignment....It's not neccessarily always to make sure the QB "has time"....Sometimes that's on the QB himself...or a RB....




BTW... what percentage of the time (excluding screens) in an avg NFL offensive pass play, would you put the job of most all offensive Linemen to pass protect so the QB "has time". Their assignments and all.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 03:33 PM
Frankly i'm surprised to hear this....

I wouldn't think that anyone who has ever played OL from highschool to the pros would be so quick to jump on "The O-line".....

And I am shocked to hear that you think our O-Line is NOT BAD. Relatively speaking or not.

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 03:35 PM
I would venture to say that many, many people on this board have played football for a few if not many years.

To over complicate the game and be condescending for the sake of making yourself seem smart isn't cool.

At the end of the day football is not complicated. Its basic X's and O's.

Tailgate was right and YOU were right. Let me put it this way... You are correct: O-linemans job is to pick up his assignment.. Why??? Because Tailgate is correct: to achieve time or space... Thats their job in a nut shell.

I don't think we need to get into basic fundamentals of blocking schemes such as "FOIL"

Front
Outside
Inside
Linebacker...

You get the jist..

real
12-06-2006, 03:40 PM
COLLECTIVELY... we are well known across the league for having year in and year out...

And since outsiders looking in should be the true judges of what's going on in house I guess you'd be right....

A lot of people still think of Houstonians as a bunch of Chap wearin, horse riding, tobacco chewers.....


And my point about you knowing who is messed up on what play on an individual basis is that you automatically assume that when David gets sacked it's the O-line's fault.....Out of the 5 sacks that we took atleast two of them were Carr's fault....My point is that if you can't point out a specific player who was at fault then your immediate reaction is to say "the O-line did it"......

real
12-06-2006, 03:42 PM
At the end of the day football is not complicated. Its basic X's and O's.


Yeah...And that's why everyone is good at it....

real
12-06-2006, 03:43 PM
To over complicate the game and be condescending for the sake of making yourself seem smart isn't cool.


I've come to learn that often times when people don't understand something they get scared or offended....

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 03:44 PM
And since outsiders looking in should be the true judges of what's going on in house I guess you'd be right....

A lot of people still think of Houstonians as a bunch of Chap wearin, horse riding, tobacco chewers.....


And my point about you knowing who is messed up on what play on an individual basis is that you automatically assume that when David gets sacked it's the O-line's fault.....Out of the 5 sacks that we took atleast two of them were Carr's fault....My point is that if you can't point out a specific player who was at fault then your immediate reaction is to say "the O-line did it"......

I have ALWAYS left it open to where YES, Carr is not perfect and needs to improve pocket presence. And I thought you already agreed and said Eric Winston had a BAD GAME on Sunday. I mentioned another and you couldnt verify or not. You also gave a heads up and said you couldnt comment on the run blocking because you have yet to see the film. So why even bring it up??

BTW... I am chewing tobacco RIGHT NOW. Somethings never change.

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 03:47 PM
Yeah...And that's why everyone is good at it....

No, just because you can finger paint doesn't make you Van Gogh, but its still basic painting.

real
12-06-2006, 03:50 PM
BTW... what percentage of the time (excluding screens) in an avg NFL offensive pass play, would you put the job of most all offensive Linemen to pass protect so the QB "has time". Their assignments and all.


Maybe you misunderstood me...


Sure they are supposed to protect the QB on passing plays....

But a lot of times it's not squarely on their shoulders....The load of protecting the QB can be spread out between the OL, a RB, a TE, and even the QB himself...

Just because you see a guy sack the QB does not put it on the line...And the reason I asked you to name specific times where the line messed up, is because if you don't know who's making the mistake it can be on the OL, a RB, a TE, and yes...even the QB himself.....

I am not trying to make the claim that our line isn't bad, or that they are where they should be....I do however think that when we were completely healty we had a fairly good-decent line...Even with all the back-ups we have playing they still aren't playing as bad as one would think....

real
12-06-2006, 03:51 PM
No, just because you can finger paint doesn't make you Van Gogh, but its still basic painting.

Wha ????

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 03:52 PM
I've supported Carr since day 1. I think that we made a good decision in picking up Mario Williams. With that said, I think that given Carr's inconsistent play we should have given Sage a game after what we saw him do. Maybe we (fans, Kubiak & co. and everybody else) would've seen why he has stayed a backup QB? Maybe we would've found our solution for QB, it's obvious now that Carr is not it. Maybe we would've seen that he is just a hair above or below Carr? The fact is considering the time Carr has been given and what he has and hasn't been able to do, given our current record and that of last year, Rosenfels deserved a chance. Period. If this were any other team Carr would've been benched by now. Look around the NFL, you have 2 bad games, even with a winning record and you get benched...


I guess that nobody told Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady or Mike Vick. Somebody did remember to memo Plummer, and now some folks here want to pick up that discard. How many ex-Broncos do we need?

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 03:52 PM
I've come to learn that often times when people don't understand something they get scared or offended....

I was an outsider reading things said between you and Tailgate. IMHO, it seemed like you were being condescending towards him. If not, my mistake. I think he understands completely what you are saying, and with that said he doesn't have to agree with you and he's free to voice his opinions as well.

Now, if you are currently employed as a D1 or Professional head coach, I would certainly defer to you. But then again, if you were, you wouldn't have time to be on the boards either.

real
12-06-2006, 03:57 PM
I have ALWAYS left it open to where YES, Carr is not perfect and needs to improve pocket presence. And I thought you already agreed and said Eric Winston had a BAD GAME on Sunday. I mentioned another and you couldnt verify or not. You also gave a heads up and said you couldnt comment on the run blocking because you have yet to see the film. So why even bring it up??

BTW... I am chewing tobacco RIGHT NOW. Somethings never change.

You brought up the run blocking in an earlier post...Remember when you were talking about being able to run for the play action to work.....

And yes I do think Eric had a bad game....That doesn't mean he messed up on every single play....

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 03:57 PM
Wha ????

LOL... I had previously said that "it's basic X's and O's".... You replied..."Yeah ANd thats why everyones good at it...."

My point was quite the opposite. Something can be basic, but NOT everyone can be good at it...

However, if someone has played the game before, than there is at least a pretty good chance they get it...

real
12-06-2006, 03:59 PM
I was an outsider reading things said between you and Tailgate. IMHO, it seemed like you were being condescending towards him. If not, my mistake. I think he understands completely what you are saying, and with that said he doesn't have to agree with you and he's free to voice his opinions as well.


Im pretty sure he appreciates you taking up for him....That was real sweet of you....

And it doesn't have anything to do with saying "Im better than you" or "I know more than you".....

The point is that we are just about equally as clueless when it comes to judging the O-line on an that level...

real
12-06-2006, 04:02 PM
LOL... I had previously said that "it's basic X's and O's".... You replied..."Yeah ANd thats why everyones good at it...."

My point was quite the opposite. Something can be basic, but NOT everyone can be good at it...

However, if someone has played the game before, than there is at least a pretty good chance they get it...

I find this response confusing, funny, and profound at the same time....

HOU-TEX
12-06-2006, 04:03 PM
:worm:

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Im pretty sure he appreciates you taking up for him....That was real sweet of you....

And it doesn't have anything to do with saying "Im better than you" or "I know more than you".....

The point is that we are just about equally as clueless when it comes to judging the O-line on an that level...



Maybe some of the experts at judging the QB position could help out with the O-line.

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 04:08 PM
Maybe you misunderstood me...


Sure they are supposed to protect the QB on passing plays....

But a lot of times it's not squarely on their shoulders....The load of protecting the QB can be spread out between the OL, a RB, a TE, and even the QB himself...

Just because you see a guy sack the QB does not put it on the line...And the reason I asked you to name specific times where the line messed up, is because if you don't know who's making the mistake it can be on the OL, a RB, a TE, and yes...even the QB himself.....

I am not trying to make the claim that our line isn't bad, or that they are where they should be....I do however think that when we were completely healty we had a fairly good-decent line...Even with all the back-ups we have playing they still aren't playing as bad as one would think....



Cmon... I understand that if a sack is attained, there are diff. reasons why. And its not always a specific O-Linemans fault. It can be the entire group, or it can EVEN be the coaches calling the wrong play, audibles,etc. I understand all of this. Its called football.

But when talking on message boards... I don't have film of previous games readily available to me. I go off what I have seen and evaluated from watching EVERY game this team has ever played just like most everyone else. You have even stated that you havent "broken down" film of the running game. So is it really that obsurd when I dont bring up these certain "instances" you are looking for...and simply discuss the big picture. I stick to watching and sometimes rewatching the game. Its normal. When tallying EVERYTHING up... I remember that when I watched and hardly ever saw a pocket develope. Yes, its not all the lines fault.... but OVERALL... when discussing its just as fair to say the O-Line was horrible at pass protecting last Sunday. When all things are said and done... thats their main job when a normal drop back pass play is called.

Yes, I agree if Spencer was still playing I think our line would be alot better.

real
12-06-2006, 04:09 PM
[/b]

Maybe some of the experts at judging the QB position could help out with the O-line.

JMO, but I think pretty easy to look at a QB and tell the difference between a good one and a lousy, and why the good one is good and why the lousy one is lousy.....

On the other hand I find it hard to believe that someone can really sit down and tell me why this teams O-line is good, and why that other teams O-line is bad...

Just for the simple fact that they aren't paid much attention to by the casual viewer/fan....Most of the time, a guy sacks the QB and the first thing you hear is..."the lines gotta do better"....and I'm like....what?? How do you know that one was on the line ?

Tailgate
12-06-2006, 04:13 PM
Just for the simple fact that they aren't paid much attention to by the casual viewer/fan....Most of the time, a guy sacks the QB and the first thing you hear is..."the lines gotta do better"....and I'm like....what?? How do you know that one was on the line ?

Of course... we have all seen the RB whiff the defender. We have all seen Carr sit in the pocket too long. We have seen IT ALL. But damn, this O-Lines GOTTA DO BETTER. Health would be a start obviously.

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 04:15 PM
I find this response confusing, funny, and profound at the same time....

That was pretty funny... I will give you that...

I just didn't realize I was trying to trade wits with a kid who was born about the time the guy in your avatar retired and I had just wrapped up my Senior year of ball.

You'll figure it out someday, junior. I remember when I became of drinking age too - full of piss and vinegar.

Make sure you graduate college with good grades in Kinesiology so that we may see you gracing the sidelines one day...

infantrycak
12-06-2006, 04:16 PM
On the other hand I find it hard to believe that someone can really sit down and tell me why this teams O-line is good, and why that other teams O-line is bad...

Just for the simple fact that they aren't paid much attention to by the casual viewer/fan....Most of the time, a guy sacks the QB and the first thing you hear is..."the lines gotta do better"....and I'm like....what?? How do you know that one was on the line ?

OL responsibility, actually more generally pass protection responsibility, does have its difficulties to evaluate but it isn't as useless as you make out and just like you can look at good QB's and bad QB's and identify them you can look at good OL's and bad OL's and come to general conclusions. There are plenty of instances when you can absolutely see where the OL broke down such as off the top of my head Wiegert on a play with no TE or RB assistance getting flat beat to the outside on a pure speed move by the DE. Many sacks are pretty simple, sure some are complex, but not all by any means.

real
12-06-2006, 04:18 PM
Question: What teams would you consider to have Good O-lines ?

Atl ? Pitt? Seattle ? Surely Minnesotta with Birk and Hutchinson....

real
12-06-2006, 04:20 PM
OL responsibility, actually more generally pass protection responsibility, does have its difficulties to evaluate but it isn't as useless as you make out and just like you can look at good QB's and bad QB's and identify them you can look at good OL's and bad OL's and come to general conclusions. There are plenty of instances when you can absolutely see where the OL broke down such as off the top of my head Wiegert on a play with no TE or RB assistance getting flat beat to the outside on a pure speed move by the DE. Many sacks are pretty simple, sure some are complex, but not all by any means.

Of course....

and I may be a little partial to OL....

But my main point is that it's not as easy as seeing the QB get sacked or pressured and saying it's on the line...

eriadoc
12-06-2006, 04:21 PM
I'm not taking anything away from Sage, as he did a good job under the circumstances that game. However, pointing out his sack totals as indicative of anything long-term is way off base. By the time Sage came in, the Titans weren't running the same defensive scheme as they were earlier, since they had a pretty decent-sized lead.

But yeah, Carr definitely contributes ot his own sack numbers. I didn't think that was a point of discussion.

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 04:22 PM
Question: What teams would you consider to have Good O-lines ?

Atl ? Pitt? Seattle ? Surely Minnesotta with Birk and Hutchinson....


I would have to say Indianapolis, Carolina, Philly that's to name a few. If you need more I would give you additional O-lines that are good, and that is more than just opinion.

real
12-06-2006, 04:24 PM
just like you can look at good QB's and bad QB's and identify them you can look at good OL's and bad OL's and come to general conclusions. .

Yeah...that's true too....

But he was asking about the QB coaches or something to the liking....

And I was just saying that outside of seeing a lineman getting physically beat, as you pointed out with Wiegert, it's hard to judge if they messed up or not....

Wheras, the fine points of playing QB are more easily seen....

And just a disclaimer....all this is JMO, but I'm sure you all knew that....

eriadoc
12-06-2006, 04:29 PM
JMO, but I think pretty easy to look at a QB and tell the difference between a good one and a lousy, and why the good one is good and why the lousy one is lousy.....

On the other hand I find it hard to believe that someone can really sit down and tell me why this teams O-line is good, and why that other teams O-line is bad...

Just for the simple fact that they aren't paid much attention to by the casual viewer/fan....Most of the time, a guy sacks the QB and the first thing you hear is..."the lines gotta do better"....and I'm like....what?? How do you know that one was on the line ?

It's actually not that difficult to see some things. This Sunday, watch the other two games that show. Observe the pocket that the O-line forms. Compare that to ours, regardless of the play result. You'll see a striking difference. Our tackles don't get the rusher wide enough as they allow them to go by. The spacing when the linemen line up is, a.) not always the same as other O-lines, even those doing ZB scheme, and b.) not even consistent from one play to the next. You can find differences in their spacing when comparing two of the same plays from two different quarters of football. Carr has less time to react than other QBs as well. The protection doesn't hold up, on average, as long as most other lines. No line holds up well all the time, but you can average it and get a feel.

I will add that Carr's drops don't always seem to be as crisp as other QBs, so that shaves time away from how long he has. Then there's the obvious mistakes when he steps the wrong way or simply has no awareness of a rusher. Nonetheless, it's not really that difficult to put aside the poor QB play and evaluate what the O-line is doing. It just takes a DVR/VCR and a little time is all.

real
12-06-2006, 04:33 PM
No line holds up well all the time, but you can average it and get a feel.


Im not going to keep going into this, but I think it's fairly obvious that our passing game can't be compared to other teams....

Every passing play doesn't call for a pocket...And because of the different depths of the QB drops the O-line has to block it differently...

real
12-06-2006, 04:37 PM
I would have to say Indianapolis, Carolina, Philly that's to name a few. If you need more I would give you additional O-lines that are good, and that is more than just opinion.

Carolina and Philly are about middle of the road with Sacks this year....

There are about 12 teams with fewer sacks than them....

Some teams that you wouldn't expect to have fewer sacks, than a team with a "good O-line"

And indy is #1...least sacks allowed....

eriadoc
12-06-2006, 04:38 PM
Im not going to keep going into this, but I think it's fairly obvious that our passing game can't be compared to other teams....

Every passing play doesn't call for a pocket...And because of the different depths of the QB drops the O-line has to block it differently...

Yep. And you have to take this into account, which invalidates many plays from the sample sizes, but you can generally get enough in to compare apples to apples.

real
12-06-2006, 04:43 PM
Yep. And you have to take this into account, which invalidates many plays from the sample sizes, but you can generally get enough in to compare apples to apples.

That's true as well....

But I was just saying you can't really compare our pockets to other teams pockets....

The reason is because we seem to throw more three step drops than the rest of the the leauge....even the raiders take deeper drops....

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 04:43 PM
Carolina and Philly are about middle of the road with Sacks this year....

There are about 12 teams with fewer sacks than them....

Some teams that you wouldn't expect to have fewer sacks, than a team with a "good O-line"

And indy is #1...least sacks allowed....


Fewest sacks does not equate to good line, Brian Westbrooke has some nice holes to run through. Carolina might have a few sacks but those come after about 6,7 seconds in the pocket as Steve Smith goes about 40+ down field.


As this thread suggests:

David Carr before:sarcasm: the game......................... I wonder if I can get sacked 5 times today to up my total. The whole 22 pass completions in a row did'nt get me any fans.

Goldeagle
12-06-2006, 04:44 PM
Carr is SO DEAD in this game. A mediocre O-line to start the season, now a pathetic O-line with only one marginal starter. He is DEAD.

But the Carr haters are so pathetic and jealous of Carr, it will all be his fault.

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 04:46 PM
Carr is SO DEAD in this game. A mediocre O-line to start the season, now a pathetic O-line with only one marginal starter. He is DEAD.

But the Carr haters are so pathetic and jealous of Carr, it will all be his fault.



The threads stating he's on notice these last four games have already started. It's a good thing the teams behind him.

real
12-06-2006, 04:46 PM
Fewest sacks does not equate to good line...

If fewest sacks doesn't = a good line....

then most sacks shouldn't = bad line....

real
12-06-2006, 04:48 PM
And I'm not saying that our line is good folks....

But I don't think they're as horrible as some suggest....

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 04:49 PM
If fewest sacks doesn't = a good line....

the most sacks shouldn't = bad line....

Rushing Yardage

25 against the Jets

134 against the Raiders

36 against Dallas

188 against the Bills

It's either Pass Protection or Run Blocking we don't get both, sometimes we don't get either.

real
12-06-2006, 04:49 PM
It's a good thing the teams behind him.

That's why he keeps gettin sacked....


the team should be in front of him.... :francis:

real
12-06-2006, 04:50 PM
Rushing Yardage

25 against the Jets

134 against the Raiders

36 against Dallas

188 against the Bills

It's either Pass Protection or Run Blocking we don't get both, sometimes we don't get either.

If you aren't comparing these stats to other teams, how do you know this is irregular?

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 04:51 PM
That's why he keeps gettin sacked....


the team should be in front of him.... :francis:


On that we can most assuredly agree! LOL

MrMeToo
12-06-2006, 04:52 PM
Carr is SO DEAD in this game. A mediocre O-line to start the season, now a pathetic O-line with only one marginal starter. He is DEAD.

But the Carr haters are so pathetic and jealous of Carr, it will all be his fault.

Jealous of what? Are you Carr's mother or something?

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 04:53 PM
If you aren't comparing these stats to other teams, how do you know this is irregular?


Oh I am not trying to compare to other teams. I am comparing the same team. Why the irregularity with the run game and pass game. A solid line plays with consistancy, the only thing our O-line has done consistantly is get hurt.

real
12-06-2006, 04:54 PM
I quickly looked at some of the Indy games and some of their games are the same way....

I'm pretty sure this happens to a lot of teams....

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 04:55 PM
I quickly looked at some of the Indy games and some of their games are the same way....

I'm pretty sure this happens to a lot of teams....



Indy does not have pass protection issues, Peyton would throw his O-line under the bus immediatly just like last year against the Steelers.

real
12-06-2006, 04:56 PM
Just glanced at the Charge...

Saw a couple of their games that were that way....

real
12-06-2006, 04:56 PM
Indy does not have pass protection issues, Peyton would throw his O-line under the bus immediatly just like last year against the Steelers.

Gotta go....Will answer this manana(sp)lol

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 04:57 PM
Just glanced at the Charge...

Saw a couple of their games that were that way....


What did they go from

212 yard rushing to 120?

Texans_Chick
12-06-2006, 04:59 PM
I just finished watching my TiVO.

Personally, I do not understand the playcalling in the first half of this game. (Nor in the Buffalo game for that matter).

I am a fan of Kubiak, but in the first half of the Oakland game, there were 18 pass plays called and 10 running plays. If the Raiders are pinning their ears back in the second quarter, why aren't you softening them up more with runs and a little misdirection.

With a young, injured offensive line inexperienced playing together and on the road, I didn't understand why they kept calling so many passes. Especially those last couple of plays before the end of the half.

ib4texans
12-06-2006, 05:07 PM
I just finished watching my TiVO.

Personally, I do not understand the playcalling in the first half of this game. (Nor in the Buffalo game for that matter).

I am a fan of Kubiak, but in the first half of the Oakland game, there were 18 pass plays called and 10 running plays. If the Raiders are pinning their ears back in the second quarter, why aren't you softening them up more with runs and a little misdirection.

With a young, injured offensive line inexperienced playing together and on the road, I didn't understand why they kept calling so many passes. Especially those last couple of plays before the end of the half.



I know it does make you stop and wonder. I think if we get our run established we go all day. That's how the Titans are winning with Time of Possession.

texan's blue
12-06-2006, 08:05 PM
[/SIZE][/B]


I guess that nobody told Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady or Mike Vick. Somebody did remember to memo Plummer, and now some folks here want to pick up that discard. How many ex-Broncos do we need?

Ok... you are right. :tomato: Rephrase... most teams would have benched their starting QB by now or at least given their backup a chance if he just came off a 2-14 season and was obviously going nowhere... I mean really, does anybody think Carr has improved???

Runner
12-06-2006, 09:31 PM
I mean really, does anybody think Carr has improved???

I really hate to get involved in these threads, but I'll answer.

Yes, I think Carr looked like an improved player in pre-season and in the first couple of games. His improvement was mostly in getting rid of the ball (for completions a lot of the time) before tha pass rush got to him.

I don't think he has improved any since then.

In the end I think there is some improvement but not nearly enough given the vaunted QB coaching he is receiveing, the upgrade in surrounding talent, etc.

Second Honeymoon
12-06-2006, 10:00 PM
I really hate to get involved in these threads, but I'll answer.

Yes, I think Carr looked like an improved player in pre-season and in the first couple of games. His improvement was mostly in getting rid of the ball (for completions a lot of the time) before tha pass rush got to him.

I don't think he has improved any since then.

In the end I think there is some improvement but not nearly enough given the vaunted QB coaching he is receiveing, the upgrade in surrounding talent, etc.

QFT

Double Barrel
12-06-2006, 10:27 PM
I am a fan of Kubiak, but in the first half of the Oakland game, there were 18 pass plays called and 10 running plays. If the Raiders are pinning their ears back in the second quarter, why aren't you softening them up more with runs and a little misdirection.

Good post. But if you look at the box score (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/playbyplay/2006/12/03/2203_pbp.html), you can see things in logical order.

09:44 1st Hou 1-10 at Hou20 Wali Lundy Off Left End to Hou26 for 6 yards
-- 1st Hou 2-4 at Hou27 Wali Lundy Off Left End to Hou29 for 2 yards
-- 1st Hou 3-2 at Hou29 Wali Lundy up the Middle to Hou33 for 4 yards
-- 1st Hou 1-10 at Hou33 David Carr Pass to Jeb Putzier to Hou34 for 1 yard
-- 1st Hou 2-9 at Hou34 David Carr Pass to Jeb Putzier to Hou39 for 5 yards
-- 1st Hou 3-4 at Hou39 David Carr Pass to Andre Johnson to Hou48 for 9 yards
-- 1st Hou 1-10 at Hou48 Wali Lundy Off Right End to Hou49 for 1 yard
-- 1st Hou 2-9 at Hou49 Hou-Eric Winston PENALIZED -5 yards for False Start
-- 1st Hou 2-14 at Hou44 David Carr Pass to Wali Lundy to Oak49 for 7 yards
-- 1st Hou 3-7 at Oak49 David Carr Pass Incomplete to Andre Johnson
-- 1st Hou 4-7 at Oak49 Chad Stanley punts 49 yards to Oak End Zone, Center-Bryan Pittman. TOUCHBACK.


The penalty killed us. But Carr was completing passes and our running game was getting established. We even got a couple of first downs. We just couldn't sustain the drive after the penalty.


03:06 1st Hou 1-10 at Hou29 Andre Johnson Off Left End to Hou36 for 7 yards
-- 1st Hou 2-3 at Hou36 David Carr Pass to Eric Moulds to Hou39 for 3 yards
-- 1st Hou 1-10 at Hou39 David Carr Pass Incomplete to Eric Moulds
-- 1st Hou 2-10 at Hou39 Ron Dayne Off Left End to Hou36 for -3 yards
-- 1st Hou 3-13 at Hou36 Houston Texans timeout.
-- 1st Hou 3-13 at Hou36 David Carr Pass Incomplete
-- 1st Hou -- Hou-David Carr PENALIZED -17 yards for Intentional Grounding
-- 1st Hou 4-30 at Hou19 Hou-Charlie Anderson PENALIZED -5 yards for False Start
-- 1st Hou 4-35 at Hou14 Chad Stanley punts 41 yards to Oak45, Center-Bryan Pittman. Chris Carr returns to Hou21 for 34 yards


This drive was hurt with the -3 yard running play, putting us in 3rd and long. A passing situation against a solid passing D. Not a good position with this offense on the road. The intentional grounding call hurt us with our weak punting game.

13:46 2nd Hou 1-10 at Hou4 Wali Lundy up the Middle to Hou6 for 2 yards
-- 2nd Hou 2-8 at Hou6 David Carr Off Left End to Hou11 for 5 yards
-- 2nd Hou 3-3 at Hou11 David Carr Pass Incomplete to Andre Johnson
-- 2nd Hou 4-3 at Hou11 Chad Stanley punts 41 yards to Oak48, Center-Bryan Pittman. Chris Carr returns to Hou47 for 5 yards


This drive started off on the wrong foot with the brainfart by Mathis (thankfully he made up for it later). There's not too many plays you can run from that field position, either. 3 and out did not surprise me there.

10:50 2nd Hou 1-10 at Hou31 David Carr Pass to Wali Lundy to Hou33 for 2 yards
-- 2nd Hou 2-8 at Hou33 Wali Lundy Off Right Tackle to Hou34 for 1 yard
-- 2nd Hou 3-7 at Hou34 David Carr up the Middle to Hou35 for 1 yard
-- 2nd Hou 4-6 at Hou35 Chad Stanley punts 32 yards to Oak33, Center-Bryan Pittman. Chris Carr returns to Oak41 for 8 yards

Our offense came to a sputtering halt at this point. Another 3 and out.

03:40 2nd Hou 1-10 at Hou20 Ron Dayne up the Middle to Hou29 for 9 yards
-- 2nd Hou 2-1 at Hou29 Ron Dayne Off Right Guard to Hou35 for 6 yards
-- 2nd Hou 1-10 at Hou35 David Carr sacked at Hou34 for -1 yards
-- 2nd Hou 2-11 at Hou34 David Carr Pass to Ron Dayne to Hou39 for 5 yards
-- 2nd Hou 3-6 at Hou39 Two-Minute Warning
-- 2nd Hou 3-6 at Hou39 David Carr sacked at Hou29 for -10 yards
-- 2nd Hou -- David Carr FUMBLES (FF-Derrick Burgess), recovered at Hou29 by Kevin Huntley RETURNED for 0 yards.

Our running game started to come back to life a little right here, but the series of sacks just killed us. Kubiak must have thought our passing game could do something, but hindsight being 20/20, he should have just kept running the ball at this point.

01:08 2nd Hou 1-10 at Hou43 David Carr sacked at Hou35 for -8 yards
-- 2nd Hou -- David Carr FUMBLES (FF-Warren Sapp), recovered at Hou35 by Kirk Morrison RETURNED for 35 yards for a TOUCHDOWN.

Yikes!

00:56 2nd Hou 1-10 at Hou22 David Carr sacked at Hou11 for -11 yards
-- 2nd Hou -- David Carr FUMBLES (FF-Tommy Kelly), recovered at Hou11 by David Carr RETURNED for 0 yards.
-- 2nd Hou 2-21 at Hou11 Wali Lundy up the Middle to Hou21 for 10 yards

At this point it's obvious that our passing game is futile, which probably explains why we only tried 3 passing attempts the entire second half (all incomplete). Fortunately, Ron Dayne and our running game came to life to be a big part of the victory. Still kinda' weird that we have offensive linemen that can run block but not pass block...at least last game.

Texans_Chick
12-06-2006, 11:09 PM
DB-

Yeah, you can do some of the same analysis of the Buffalo game.

The thing that really really struck me were the last two plays of the half. People have criticized Kubiak for getting hyper conservative at the half, and how they wanted to give the offense more freedom, but geez, there's getting back on the horse, and then there is having some time to get your feet back under you. I don't think that is hindsight talking.

The Raider defense was in a frenzy at the end of the half, and not to do anything to really penalize overpursuit or keep the defense offbalance is headscratchy.

Double Barrel
12-06-2006, 11:17 PM
I agree, TC, and wonder if Kubiak has a big learning curve he's overcoming, as well. We assume that it would be something natural since he called offensive plays in Denver, but I'm sure being a HC is much more crazy than just a coordinator. There are some interesting calls, though.

texan's blue
12-07-2006, 07:48 AM
I really hate to get involved in these threads, but I'll answer.

Yes, I think Carr looked like an improved player in pre-season and in the first couple of games. His improvement was mostly in getting rid of the ball (for completions a lot of the time) before tha pass rush got to him.

I don't think he has improved any since then.

In the end I think there is some improvement but not nearly enough given the vaunted QB coaching he is receiveing, the upgrade in surrounding talent, etc.

I think that was a product of better coaching and a team's new found hope. Carr still shows 0 pocket presense.. He still shows no strength to brush off tacklers.. He still makes bad throws in key situations.. He still panics.. He has shown no desire to sale the play action (I know... gotta have an effective run game to sale it... It is still his job to sale it every time regardless of whether he thinks it will work or not... that's what he gets paid $8 mil for... academy award winning performances... the one time he put his heart into it, it actually worked) He either just can't read defenses or isn't allowed to change plays which means the coaching staff has 0 confidence in him...

I'm sorry... I've been a Carr supporter from day 1... he has been our starting QB and I have wanted him to succeed... I really couldn't care less who is playing QB if they are wearing a Texans uniform I'm rooting for them until the end... for Carr, it should've been the end a long time ago.

kingh99
12-07-2006, 10:15 AM
Every workout warrior who couldn't play on Sundays was given a clean slate by Kubiak and company. And I'd say to a man, everyone of them showed their true colors and were jettisoned or benched by Kubiak. Every one of them but Carr.

Battle Red Flash
12-07-2006, 10:19 AM
ZERO sacks.
Sage for the year: 27-39. 1 SACK. IF that was Carr, there would be 3-4 sacks. He averages 1 sack every 10 attempts. Why is it that Sage doesn't behind the same line?


Because, when Sage was in the game, the Titans relaxed their defense to protect their lead. People that know football know this.
I suppose all the Oakland sacks were Carr's fault too? Not Winston whiffing on his blocks?

edo783
12-07-2006, 10:24 AM
Because, when Sage was in the game, the Titans relaxed their defense to protect their lead. People that know football know this.
I suppose all the Oakland sacks were Carr's fault too? Not Winston whiffing on his blocks?

Don't confuse the situation with logic and common sense. It doesn't support what he wants to believe.

TexasJedi
12-07-2006, 12:02 PM
Because, when Sage was in the game, the Titans relaxed their defense to protect their lead. People that know football know this.
I suppose all the Oakland sacks were Carr's fault too? Not Winston whiffing on his blocks?
That and Sage did not look too good during the Jacksonville game when Carr was injured.

ib4texans
12-07-2006, 12:12 PM
That and Sage did not look too good during the Jacksonville game when Carr was injured.



Absolutely! 1 completion and he looked jittery.

ib4texans
12-07-2006, 01:08 PM
You mean the way Carr gets to pad his stats in the 4th Q of games AFTER he has been totally blown out scoring nothing: ex: the 1st 3 Q. vs IND. Is that what you are referring to? Carr sucks. It's obvious. He has given the illusion that he has abilities becasue of his passer rating.

Where are the wins? Where are the 40 point performances? Check that...where is a 30 point performance. YOu think he is the ****, then with AJ and Moulds, and Daniels, where are the big games? There are none.

TEN is going to punish this loser. Prediction: 2 fumbles, 2 INT's. lots of dumpoffs, 5 sacks, 7 points in the 1st 3 quarters. Better if they take the ball out of this losers hands and just try and run the football. They have no QB.

Don't hold back,tell us how you really feel!

MightyTExan
12-07-2006, 01:29 PM
Quinton Porter signed off the practice squad.

Interesting.............

What's the deal on this guy? Is he our QB of the future? Kubiak picked him right? If he did, that's someone to keep an eye on.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-07-2006, 01:34 PM
Sage Rosenfels vs TEN on 10/29/2006: 18-25 186 3 TD/1 INT.

ZERO sacks.

Sage for the year: 27-39. 1 SACK. IF that was Carr, there would be 3-4 sacks. He averages 1 sack every 10 attempts. Why is it that Sage doesn't behind the same line?

Carr this week vs TEN:

I'll fill it in after the game but he will suck.

Carr vs TEN last year, 7 and 6 sacks.

If Sage had been the starter and Carr had been called in later, the stats would be flip-flopped. Tennessee wasn't coming at Sage the way they were coming at Carr because the game was already in hand.

HOU-TEX
12-07-2006, 01:35 PM
Quinton Porter signed off the practice squad.

Interesting.............

What's the deal on this guy? Is he our QB of the future? Kubiak picked him right? If he did, that's someone to keep an eye on.

He was a perfect 4-4 in preseason.:cool:

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-07-2006, 01:57 PM
He was a perfect 4-4 in preseason.:cool:

He's got to be better than Carr then.:sarcasm:

HOU-TEX
12-07-2006, 02:04 PM
He's got to be better than Carr then.:sarcasm:

No comment. I only care about the Texans getting some wins for the next 4 games. I'm not much on debating about Carr. My mom could be our QB for all I care. I just want some W's.:cool:

ib4texans
12-07-2006, 04:23 PM
He was a perfect 4-4 in preseason.:cool:



I don't get it wasn't the team 3-1 in pre-season losing to Denver in the 3rd game. Didn't David Carr and Sage Rosenfelds play in those games............

Hulk75
12-07-2006, 04:28 PM
Carr is Mr Sack. It's all him. This week is your proof.

Pretty much it has been that way from day one.

Titans 3 Texans 37:cool:

Runner
12-07-2006, 04:45 PM
I don't get it wasn't the team 3-1 in pre-season losing to Denver in the 3rd game. Didn't David Carr and Sage Rosenfelds play in those games............

I think that's 4 completions out of 4 pass attempts.

HOU-TEX
12-07-2006, 04:47 PM
I think I'd rather see her play center.:bananasplit:

Dude! That's my mom you're talking about. lol! She's like 70 years old. I've heard about those kind of people. lol

ib4texans
12-07-2006, 04:49 PM
I think that's 4 completions out of 4 pass attempts.


Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Yes! A performance to pin our future upon.

Wolf
12-07-2006, 05:30 PM
You mean the way Carr gets to pad his stats in the 4th Q of games AFTER he has been totally blown out scoring nothing: ex: the 1st 3 Q. vs IND. Is that what you are referring to? Carr sucks. It's obvious. He has given the illusion that he has abilities becasue of his passer rating.

.


so we can say that Sage padded his stats then?

he played in the 4th, after the game was blown out (your logic on padding)

I was more tickedat the defense that couldn't stop Tennessee in the 4th to give us a chance to comeback