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TexansSeminole
12-06-2006, 12:08 AM
Heres a poll in the Chronicle...interesting results.

Middle of this page: http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/

Roughnecks
12-06-2006, 12:19 AM
What poll?

The Pencil Neck
12-06-2006, 01:20 AM
What poll?

Follow the link and then go down near the end of the page. It's kinda buried in with all the other stuff.

tsip
12-06-2006, 01:52 AM
...75% want Carr off the field...what will the :homer: 's say--a conspiracy?...maybe the same person(s) voting over and over---yea, that's it!

Nighthawk
12-06-2006, 01:58 AM
75% want him off the field and at least 60% want him gone asap. maybe we've finally had a belly full. don't get me wrong, i hope david gets a chance (elsewhere) to catch on, at least as a backup. i don't harbor any hard feelings except that he's slowed the development of the Texans for 5 years.

other than that he's a prince among men.

beerlover
12-06-2006, 02:23 AM
David should get two years with Kubiak, lets be fair to both. this has gotten so much attention its unbelievable, people just love Carr wrecks, you know the type where its off the shoulder and people are straining their necks to check out the damage in passing :ouch:

I'm still behind David I want to see him do well, more importantly I want to see the Texans make progress and they have but its not going to all come together over night. How are people going to react this Sunday when Mario sacks Young? then DeMeco for good measure? that something is positive & improving in year one of the Kubiak regime, let Carr drive a few more games before you ship him off to the junkyard & wind up costing your beloved expansion franchise its first #1 overall pick for absoultley no value what so ever :shoot:

count me in the 25% bracket :violin

HJam72
12-06-2006, 05:07 AM
You'd be surprised how often the majority is way underinformed. Before the draft, how many people would have agreed with the following statements?

DEMECO RYANS WILL BE THE MOST UNDENIABLY SUCCESSFULL PLAYER IN THE 2006 DRAFT IN THEIR FIRST YEAR OF PLAY. OWEN DANIELS WILL BE ONE OF THOSE RIGHT BEHIND HIM.

Regardless of sports, its been proven many times that the majority is way to quick to make decisions on too little information and, frankly....kind of stupid. That's why Presidential hopefulls wear make-up on TV and we listen to ENTERTAINERS' opinions on politics and world issues.

Right or wrong, I'm proud to be in the minority.

Malloy
12-06-2006, 05:41 AM
Regardless of sports, its been proven many times that the majority is way to quick to make decisions on too little information and, frankly....kind of stupid. That's why Presidential hopefulls wear make-up on TV and we listen to ENTERTAINERS' opinions on politics and world issues.

Right or wrong, I'm proud to be in the minority.

I'm confused, are you telling us you're wearing makeup or ? :)

tsip
12-06-2006, 06:16 AM
You'd be surprised how often the majority is way underinformed. Before the draft, how many people would have agreed with the following statements?

DEMECO RYANS WILL BE THE MOST UNDENIABLY SUCCESSFULL PLAYER IN THE 2006 DRAFT IN THEIR FIRST YEAR OF PLAY. OWEN DANIELS WILL BE ONE OF THOSE RIGHT BEHIND HIM.

Regardless of sports, its been proven many times that the majority is way to quick to make decisions on too little information and, frankly....kind of stupid. That's why Presidential hopefulls wear make-up on TV and we listen to ENTERTAINERS' opinions on politics and world issues.

Right or wrong, I'm proud to be in the minority.

Ryans is playing at an All-Pro level in his 1st year--Carr, well he's still learning into his 5th year but--if Ryans hadn't produced, he'd never gotten as far as Carr has...

:homer: 's always defend Carr with 'one player this or one player that' but they don't mention the 'big' bucks he makes for just being 'one' of the players or 'special' treatment when it comes to 'longetivity.' If he's every players equal, what's up with this?

Wharton
12-06-2006, 07:11 AM
OMG I don't believe I'm about to say this but without a viable backup Carr should stay in the starting position through the end of the year.

With Rosenfels down, I don't know the capabilities of the current backup. Granted Carr isn't going to win any games for us but if we go to the defense and say win it for us. We would still have a change at winning 2 of the last 4. To change QB's for the sake of changing them isn't a good plan.

Didn't vote.

eric138
12-06-2006, 07:28 AM
If we sat Carr out and watched how the team as a whole performs in the next four games I think it will help Kubiak in his decision with Carr. Let Van Pelt or Porter come in and run the games. Shoot even let Sage come in and play left handed. It doesn't take that much effort to hand the ball off to a RB anyway and it won't hurt anything. if anything it will prove it either isn't the QB position that is having problems or that Carr just has no business being here.

Kaiser Toro
12-06-2006, 07:52 AM
3900+ people have cared enough to vote. Doubt many Fresno people voted so they would have less skewed results. The Houston market speaks loud, clear and consistently - they do not see value in Carr.

HJam72
12-06-2006, 08:10 AM
I'm confused, are you telling us you're wearing makeup or ? :)

Yes, I'm coming out, and I also want to be President. :)

Guys, I'm sure I'm a little too defensive about this topic sometimes, but I just hate to see us spend a high draft pick on a QB, only to find that he has just about the same success rate as Carr. Carr has had 5 yrs. to prove himself, and I know that's not only long enough, but too long; however, his protection sucks. The only time it didn't was in his second year and he was pretty good for a 2nd year QB. with what was still a little below avg. protection. We've seen Manning fall apart when the Steelers blitz got to him. Heck, we've seen many QBs fall apart under those circumstances.

I think this year has just been very irritating to me. Last year was the most depressing year of NFL football I've ever seen. This year has been the most irritating. Young, Bush, Young, Bush....it's irritating. Franky, I find some of the Carr bashing stuff even more irritating, as I'm sure you would have guessed. Maybe Carr will get replaced this offseason, and maybe not, but I just can't resist making come-back comments to those posts bashing him, particularly those that sound like teenagers saying something like, "Bon Jovi is gay, dude! Metallica rules!!!"

Carr sucks, Young rules, Reggie is God, and God save the Queen!!! :bananasplit:

This is not me calling everybody who wants Carr gone stupid. I just get irritated....that's all.

the wonger need food
12-06-2006, 08:13 AM
Regardless of sports, its been proven many times that the majority is way to quick to make decisions on too little information and, frankly....kind of stupid.

5 years of data is far more than enough. No other organization in the history of the world would give have given him this long, much less another year or two. Face it... the dude is a complete failure.

Silver Oak
12-06-2006, 08:18 AM
David should get two years with Kubiak, lets be fair to both. ......, let Carr drive a few more games before you ship him off to the junkyard & wind up costing your beloved expansion franchise its first #1 overall pick for absoultley no value what so ever :shoot:

count me in the 25% bracket :violin

my sentiments exactly.

Build the rest of the team around him while he continues to take snaps. Bring in a rookie qb to learn and mature slowly.

Let's buld a solid foundation for a perennial competitive team and not rush to throw money wherever there's a problem.

HJam72
12-06-2006, 08:19 AM
If we ever get somebody to push Carr, or hoping that he will flat-out take Carr's place, I will be rooting for that guy to go out and make Carr look like the ***** that he will apparently be (you know what I mean), but I guess I'm gonna have to see it to believe it. There's been times I would have done things differently. I've already stated quite a few times that I would've taken Young last draft (but I still get irritated hearing about him now). I would've also given Rosenfels more of a look than they did in preseason. I just don't want to pull that trigger and spend a high, first round pick on a QB (although I would've on Young, once I realized we couldn't trade down).

Texanfan4ever
12-06-2006, 08:20 AM
I'm with you Hjam. I just don't understand the "hate" that so many of those feel. This is just a football game. I know they are important, they are important to me too, but in the big picture, it is just a game and these guys are all REAL people. If David can't make it, then he doesn't make it. But to put so much emotion into hating him is crazy.

So many hate him for making so much money. They ALL make WAY too much money in my opinion. So who cares. And who cares what they do with it.

As far as David goes, he's going to need his for his medical bills when he is older. LOL

And as far as the Chronicle poll? Now WHO puts any stock in that one sided disaster. People think David sucks, well, he might, but the Chronicle sucks worse.

Texans_Chick
12-06-2006, 08:24 AM
3900+ people have cared enough to vote. Doubt many Fresno people voted so they would have less skewed results. The Houston market speaks loud, clear and consistently - they do not see value in Carr.


Not terribly scientific, especially given the options that they listed.

I voted in the puppy just to see the results. There wasn't an option that said, "Carr is the only legitimate option that we have right now." You can't bench him with Sage hurt. Actually the coach could, but I don't think he is a stupid person. The only benching they can do is the type that Kubiak did. Just give it to the running back.

HJam72
12-06-2006, 08:24 AM
my sentiments exactly.

Build the rest of the team around him while he continues to take snaps. Bring in a rookie qb to learn and mature slowly.

Let's buld a solid foundation for a perennial competitive team and not rush to throw money wherever there's a problem.

At this point, that does sound pretty good. I know....I'm getting confused about what I really want to do.

HJam72
12-06-2006, 08:28 AM
When I think about what this team needs most, I just don't think QB. I think FS, CB, OL, OLB, RB, more OL, more OL, more OL, etc. That's why I hesitate to spend that pick. I want those DBs bad, for starters.

real
12-06-2006, 08:32 AM
TEXANS POLL
Should coach Gary Kubiak make a move at quarterback and if so, what should be done?


Bench David Carr for at least two games:
6%
Bench Carr for good:
11%
Trade Carr as soon as possible:
58%
Give Carr at least another half to prove himself:
25%

Kaiser Toro
12-06-2006, 08:32 AM
If we ever get somebody to push Carr, or hoping that he will flat-out take Carr's place, I will be rooting for that guy to go out and make Carr look like the ***** that he will apparently be (you know what I mean), but I guess I'm gonna have to see it to believe it. There's been times I would have done things differently. I've already stated quite a few times that I would've taken Young last draft (but I still get irritated hearing about him now). I would've also given Rosenfels more of a look than they did in preseason. I just don't want to pull that trigger and spend a high, first round pick on a QB (although I would've on Young, once I realized we couldn't trade down).

You should not let VY bother you at the expense of you supporting Carr. I like watching VY, as a football fan, and will enjoy watching him on his back this Sunday.

Carr's results stands on their own and there is a happy medium knowing that we did the right thing in investing on the defensive side of the ball in the draft and FA.

In summary there is voice out there that did not want Carr extended and did not want to exhaust another #1 at QB as sexy as that they may have been. Once again no QB drafted #1 has ever guided their team to a SB, in the salary cap era. Results and trending said to part with Carr and go defense.

real
12-06-2006, 08:33 AM
http://images.chron.com/photos/2006/09/13/3486040/166xGeneric.jpg

HJam72
12-06-2006, 08:38 AM
You should not let VY bother you at the expense of you supporting Carr. I like watching VY, as a football fan, and will enjoy watching him on his back this Sunday.

Carr's results stands on their own and there is a happy medium knowing that we did the right thing in investing on the defensive side of the ball in the draft and FA.

In summary there is voice out there that did not want Carr extended and did not want to exhaust another #1 at QB as sexy as that they may have been. Once again no QB drafted #1 has ever guided their team to a SB, in the salary cap era. Results and trending said to part with Carr and go defense.

Interesting point. I don't really even know what to say to that.

Kaiser Toro
12-06-2006, 08:39 AM
Not terribly scientific, especially given the options that they listed.

I voted in the puppy just to see the results. There wasn't an option that said, "Carr is the only legitimate option that we have right now." You can't bench him with Sage hurt. Actually the coach could, but I don't think he is a stupid person. The only benching they can do is the type that Kubiak did. Just give it to the running back.

Not at all, but statistics, wins/losses, behavior on the field and lack of development echo the sentiment and the options.

I guess they could have had an option such as keep Carr for the remainder of the contract or have him around as long as he wants, but I do not think that would have skewed the results.

kingh99
12-06-2006, 08:46 AM
When I think about what this team needs most, I just don't think QB. I think FS, CB, OL, OLB, RB, more OL, more OL, more OL, etc. That's why I hesitate to spend that pick. I want those DBs bad, for starters.

I want another DT for starters. You will say what the heck, more D line money. Heck yeah. Our secondary as presently constituted will be all pro with a dominant line. Have you taken a look at who is starting at tackle?

D line/ O line, wide receiver, running back. Moulds is just about done. We need a burner with hands.

HJam72
12-06-2006, 08:49 AM
I want another DT for starters. You will say what the heck, more D line money. Heck yeah. Our secondary as presently constituted will be all pro with a dominant line. Have you taken a look at who is starting at tackle?

D line/ O line, wide receiver, running back. Moulds is just about done. We need a burner with hands.

I can understand those thoughts. I still want a FS first and foremost though. Just my opinion.

Kaiser Toro
12-06-2006, 08:51 AM
Moulds is just about done. We need a burner with hands.

Moulds does not look like the same player as he was with the Bills to me. Whether it is by design, he has lost two steps or a mix of both we need to look to address the WR2 position on the first day of the 2008 draft in my opinion.

HJam72
12-06-2006, 08:54 AM
Moulds does not look like the same player as he was with the Bills to me. Whether it is by design, he has lost two steps or a mix of both we need to look to address the WR2 position on the first day of the 2008 draft in my opinion.

See, now that's what I was thinking, or pretty close anyway. Moulds does need to be replaced, but I don't want to do it quite so fast as this next draft. We have other needs.

Kaiser Toro
12-06-2006, 09:01 AM
See, now that's what I was thinking, or pretty close anyway. Moulds does need to be replaced, but I don't want to do it quite so fast as this next draft. We have other needs.

That is why I am saying 2008 not 2007. I think most would agree with that.

joedinkle
12-06-2006, 09:02 AM
A say we use the off season to build up our O-line. If Carr plays well, problem solved. If Carr is still terrible, dump him, and we'll still have an improved O Line

HJam72
12-06-2006, 09:06 AM
OK, so I got my list:

Whole new O-line.

Stud FS

Stud CB

Stud OLB

new kicker

new punter

Coupla DTs

So....all we need is 5 first round draft picks, and about 5 more 2nd round draft picks, in 2007 and we'll get the kicker and punter on day 2. :)

That's not counting the first round WR in 2008.

I think we need to lose really bad. :brickwall

Texan_Bill
12-06-2006, 09:06 AM
5 years of data is far more than enough. No other organization in the history of the world would give have given him this long, much less another year or two. Face it... the dude is a complete failure.

LOL, No team except the 6 years that Arizona gave to Jake Plummer...

real
12-06-2006, 09:10 AM
A say we use the off season to build up our O-line. If Carr plays well, problem solved. If Carr is still terrible, dump him, and we'll still have an improved O Line

The problem with that theory is that If Carr still stinks, people will still blame the O-line...

Right now Carr is a terrible-mediocre QB.....NO line or lineman is going to make Carr be a good QB at this point...Only Carr can do that....

HJam72
12-06-2006, 09:14 AM
The problem with that theory is that If Carr still stinks, people will still blame the O-line...

Right now Carr is a terrible-mediocre QB.....NO line or lineman is going to make Carr be a good QB at this point...Only Carr can do that....

Admittedly, that is possible, rookies and all. We want to see him with good protection, but we can't just make that happen overnight. In five years times we sure should have though. Of course, there's the theory that Carr sacks himself...

When I see Carr sacked, my first thought is usually: 1, 2, 3, steps (about one more second as he looks around or braces for the hit)....BAM! I don't see that he has time to make something happen, unless if he were rolling out and running away or something on a called-rollout. I just don't think he's protected worth a darn.

beerlover
12-06-2006, 09:15 AM
people you have to have some confidence in Kubiak & Smiths ability to build the Texans the right way, its still too early (not even 1 full year yet) to write Carr off as a bust. All you have to do is see the frustration & concern on the sidelines during games, they are efforting to improve the results. WHO DIDNT think the Texans where faced with a problem last year when VY declarred his intentions to leave UT early? or that something was foul with Bush one week before the draft that news story broke out regarding his familys living arrangements. It was if a dark stormy cloud had hovered itself over Relient casting a foreboding shadow, now long into the regular season leading up to the nightmare of nightmare VY leading Buds Titans into Relient on a dramatic winning streak while the Texans struggle offensively to muster positive passing yards.

regarding the draft you should not just pick a player for immediate need, it should be the best player available in a high value position that not only brings balance to the team but salary sturcture & intangibles. Does the player define his position? Does he play a highly desireable, highly paid position? 4 positions that come to mind are QB, DE, OT & CB, of course there are always exceptions to the rule for freakish talents or that player who defines that position so all of that has to go into consideration besides what the team needs.

no doubt the Casserly/Capers regime was a failure in this regard. Lets see if Kubiak/Smith can put together the broken peices & aquire some upgrades via the draft & free agency while moulding & retraining on the field :rolleyes:

HJam72
12-06-2006, 09:20 AM
Well, after they outright stole Ryans and Daniels in the draft, I have plenty of faith in their ability to pick.

thunderkyss
12-06-2006, 09:20 AM
Regardless of sports, its been proven many times that the majority is way to quick to make decisions on too little information and, frankly....kind of stupid.
Right or wrong, I'm proud to be in the minority.


That's rich........ to little info....... :rofl:

real
12-06-2006, 09:25 AM
Admittedly, that is possible, rookies and all. We want to see him with good protection, but we can't just make that happen overnight.


There isn't a QB in the leauge that doesn't get pressured....There isn't a QB in the leauge that doesn't have to make a throw at some point with a defender coming full speed at them trying to take their head off...The difference between our QB and those QB's that have success in this leauge is not the O-line....Carr makes the pressure look much worse with his poor pocket presence, and bad decision making....

Kubiak said himself, that after Carr took some hits early in the game, he stopped going through his reads, and basically lost focus...That's why he took away his throwing privelages...

We can have this debate until the end of time, and Carr may do better with a better O-line....But give me a freakin' break....Do we really want a QB that has to have a perfect situation around him to win ? Any QB can say they'd like a perfect O-line, two beast at reciever, and a punishing running game...That's the stuff that dreams are made of....What if we are in the middle of a play-off hunt and Our Starting LT and RB gets hurt ??? Do we really want a QB where we basically have to roll over because of it ???? DO we really want a QB that if things aren't perfect around him, it's o.k for him to play completely incompetent ?? There is no exscuse for Davids poor play other than he isn't that good right now....period.....

HJam72
12-06-2006, 09:26 AM
I didn't say "too little TIME". I said "info". Who's getting open deep? How much time does he have in the pocket? Do our schemes, receiver routes, blocking patterns SUCK right now? Can we count on a running game? Is he being told not to risk throwing deep much? How hard is AJ fighting for passes? How fast is Moulds these days? Can we pick up a blitz worth a darn?

I see GOOD excuses all over the place. Then again, it could always just be Carr's fault.

HJam72
12-06-2006, 09:28 AM
Maybe I need to watch other QBs more. That might help me figure this out.

HOU-TEX
12-06-2006, 09:32 AM
There isn't a QB in the leauge that doesn't get pressured....There isn't a QB in the leauge that doesn't have to make a throw at some point with a defender coming full speed at them trying to take their head off...The difference between our QB and those QB's that have success in this leauge is not the O-line....Carr makes the pressure look much worse with his poor pocket presence, and bad decision making....

Kubiak said himself, that after Carr took some hits early in the game, he stopped going through his reads, and basically lost focus...That's why he took away his throwing privelages...

.....

True. He'll do the same thing this Sunday. The first sack he takes he'll be done.:brickwall

Runner
12-06-2006, 09:34 AM
A say we use the off season to build up our O-line. If Carr plays well, problem solved. If Carr is still terrible, dump him, and we'll still have an improved O Line

That's similar to what people said last off-season. Give Carr one more year. At the end of this year we are hearing just one more year. I wonder what we'll hear at the end of next year if there is no improvement.

real
12-06-2006, 09:35 AM
When I see Carr sacked, my first thought is usually: 1, 2, 3, steps (about one more second as he looks around or braces for the hit)....BAM!

And there lies the problem...

If you think that Carr should be able to sit there and look around on a three step drop, then you are expecting the wrong thing....The problem is that he isn't decisive enough....Are you paying attention ? Kubiak chews out Carr when he comes to the sideline....Kubiak talks about Carr's poor performance after the games...Kubiak benched him because of his poor play....Not the Line.....

This is football and every player has to be able to deal with some type of stress while playing....Carr doesn't deal with stress very well, so our reaction as fans is to try and make the guy as comfortable as possible by giving him top notch talent all around ? While we're at it, lets call up some wacky scientist and see if he can conjure up some invisible force field so Carr will never be under any stress.....ever.....Because of course it is a sin for a QB to have to avoid a little pressure and throw the ball down the field....That's just asking too much.....:rolleyes:

HJam72
12-06-2006, 09:37 AM
I did say one more year, but then there was the National Championship, and then they gave Carr his extension, and then they took Williams, and then NO started winning, etc. etc... BUT, I did say one more year and it's getting close.

vinceyoungfan
12-06-2006, 09:39 AM
someone should start a site for Carr haters

www.tradedavidcarr.com

real
12-06-2006, 09:42 AM
someone should start a site for Carr haters

www.tradedavidcarr.com (http://www.tradedavidcarr.com)
:bowser:

HJam72
12-06-2006, 09:42 AM
And there lies the problem...

If you think that Carr should be able to sit there and look around on a three step drop, then you are expecting the wrong thing....The problem is that he isn't decisive enough....Are you paying attention ? Kubiak chews out Carr when he comes to the sideline....Kubiak talks about Carr's poor performance after the games...Kubiak benched him because of his poor play....Not the Line.....

This is football and every player has to be able to deal with some type of stress while playing....Carr doesn't deal with stress very well, so our reaction as fans is to try and make the guy as comfortable as possible by giving him top notch talent all around ? While we're at it, lets call up some wacky scientist and see if he can conjure up some invisible force field so Carr will never be under any stress.....ever.....Because of course it is a sin for a QB to have to avoid a little pressure and throw the ball down the field....That's just asking too much.....:rolleyes:

I think a good O-line would allow him to take a 7 step drop. Three step drop and then BRACE FOR IT doesn't seem like enough to me. It just looks like his only way out is run the wrong way and try to curl around it all, which, of course, he shouldn't have to do. I'm talking about the worst plays though. It's not always that bad. Other times, it could be his fault....heck, I don't know. Maybe he just sucks when he has mediocre time because he's freaked about that other play where he got smashed in 2.5 seconds. I can see where he could be at fault in that way.

Second Honeymoon
12-06-2006, 10:41 AM
hahaha what a hilarious poll. all the homers that want 'another year' are just clueless. Carr has had 5 'another years' and he still is total garbage. Sometimes you are what you are, and Carr is a total loser and a complete failure at QB.

I love how 60% want carr traded immediately. If that doesnt send a message to McNair that the EXPERIMENT IS OVER, I don't know what will.

Oh well, those morons in the front office thought that Carr was better than Vince Young. That shows you how stupid NFL executives are sometimes and how the simple fan knows more than half those losers.