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dbspi
12-05-2006, 01:13 PM
I know itís that time of the year, since we have some of the best football mind on this forum letís look to our future and determine what are the strengths and weaknesses of the up coming draft based on players who we might know are coming out in the draft. How does this class fare in comparison to some of the previous drafts?

Strengths:

Weaknesses: OC, LBS

bah007
12-05-2006, 02:32 PM
WR is so strong this year that a lot of the good juniors aren't gonna declare.

I would also say that CB is really deep this year. Not many 1st round guys but lots of talent.

Ole Miss Texan
12-05-2006, 02:39 PM
WR is so strong this year that a lot of the good juniors aren't gonna declare.

I would also say that CB is really deep this year. Not many 1st round guys but lots of talent.

If that's the case I see us picking one in the 2nd round.

There seems to be a lot of good OL with 1st round grades as opposed to last year.

bah007
12-05-2006, 02:41 PM
If that's the case I see us picking one in the 2nd round.

There seems to be a lot of good OL with 1st round grades as opposed to last year.

There will still be good CBs in the 2nd round so I dont want one in the 1st unless it is Hall.

Texian
12-05-2006, 02:43 PM
The weakest link is safety, team needs more help against the run/pass on the backside....LaRon Landry or FA

It does not look like Winston is going to be the answer at OT and maybe more suitable to G....Doug Free, LT

Fast powerful OLB...Rufus Alexander

TJ was playing well until his injury. DL not a high priority.

A very slight outside chance Calvin Johnson would be available, to good to pass up.

Michael Bush RB is another possibilty in RD 2/3.

bah007
12-05-2006, 02:46 PM
The weakest link is safety, team needs more help against the run/pass on the backside....LaRon Landry or FA

It does not look like Winston is going to be the answer at OT and maybe more suitable to G....Doug Free, LT

Fast powerful OLB...Rufus Alexander

TJ was playing well until his injury. DL not a high priority.

A very slight outside chance Calvin Johnson would be available, to good to pass up.

Michael Bush RB is another possibilty in RD 2/3.

I wouldn't touch Doug Free if I was the Texans.

He will probably go to a team with a lot of depth on the OL cuz he needs to sit the bench for a year or two.

He is a great physical talent but he has horrible field awareness & blitz recognition.

real
12-05-2006, 02:49 PM
I am honestly thinking that Calvin Johnson may be too good to pass up....

Texian
12-05-2006, 03:02 PM
I wouldn't touch Doug Free if I was the Texans.

He will probably go to a team with a lot of depth on the OL cuz he needs to sit the bench for a year or two.

He is a great physical talent but he has horrible field awareness & blitz recognition.

I watched him play a couple games and he certainly opened some holes for for Turner and Garret Wolfe, both 1000 yd rushers.

Sarg01
12-05-2006, 03:07 PM
OLine is a real clear stand out group this year. DLine is fairly nice crop, particularly compared to last year. Safeties are also stronger than usual.

LBs are average this year, which seems like a down year coming off DeMeco, Hawk and Sims.

Sarg01
12-05-2006, 03:08 PM
I am honestly thinking that Calvin Johnson may be too good to pass up....

You'd be right, except that we'd be lampooned for a decade on rival boards as the Johnson & Johnson offense.

bah007
12-05-2006, 03:10 PM
I watched him play a couple games and he certainly opened some holes for for Turner and Garret Wolfe, both 1000 yd rushers.

He can run block like a beast.

He has a real problem with pass protection tho.

real
12-05-2006, 03:10 PM
You'd be right, except that we'd be lampooned for a decade on rival boards as the Johnson & Johnson offense.

Or...

The J & J Ranch...

Ole Miss Texan
12-05-2006, 03:12 PM
You'd be right, except that we'd be lampooned for a decade on rival boards as the Johnson & Johnson offense.

hahah that's nice. if CJ drops to us teams would be more willing to trade up to get him. he's amazing, i support a trade down

Ckw
12-05-2006, 03:18 PM
Hey what's everyone's opinion on Garret Wolfe? Is it just the weak conference contributing to his numbers? I mean 1900 yards and 18 tds... That's a hell of a season.

Honoring Earl 34
12-05-2006, 03:37 PM
I know itís that time of the year, since we have some of the best football mind on this forum letís look to our future and determine what are the strengths and weaknesses of the up coming draft based on players who we might know are coming out in the draft. How does this class fare in comparison to some of the previous drafts?

Strengths:

Weaknesses: OC, LBS

FWIW , John McClain said he thought Fred Weary would be the Texans center next year . In 2002 Weary was the #1 center on the board .

Bubbajwp
12-05-2006, 03:41 PM
You'd be right, except that we'd be lampooned for a decade on rival boards as the Johnson & Johnson offense.

Thats already taken by the Bengals
Rudi Johnson
FB Joe Johnson
and ofcourse
Chad Johnson

Texian
12-05-2006, 03:42 PM
Hey what's everyone's opinion on Garret Wolfe? Is it just the weak conference contributing to his numbers? I mean 1900 yards and 18 tds... That's a hell of a season.

He is very small, only weighs 170.

bah007
12-05-2006, 03:45 PM
Hey what's everyone's opinion on Garret Wolfe? Is it just the weak conference contributing to his numbers? I mean 1900 yards and 18 tds... That's a hell of a season.

Reggie Bush type player but smaller & not as fast.

TexansSeminole
12-05-2006, 03:51 PM
I think the weakness of this draft is tight end. But thats ok because I can't see why we would draft a tight end this year.

YoungTexanFan
12-05-2006, 04:34 PM
I'll try to break it down.

WR is probally the strongest position in the draft.

TE is one of the weakest, but with two studly prospets in Milller and Olsen, it will be good at the top.

QB is very weak in terms of first round talent. The second weakest in the past 5 years or so.

OT could is very strong, but is top heavy. Very little talent will make it past round one.

OG is decent. Blayock and the OG Auburn highlite the short list worthy of 1st day picks.

OC is about what it was last year. No prospects are as good as Mangold though. Datish and the Fresno C are the two best, but nothing more than mid second round talent.

FB is strong this year and is highlited by the FB from Rutgers

RB is actually pretty stong and fairly deep this year. AP and Lynch get the hype, but guys like Irons and Darby make for good 1st day alternatives.

DT is average as it stands, but could improve drasticly if Okam and the LSU guy enter.

DE is a very strong class again, especially at the top. Adams is the top guy...a smaller, better pass rushing Mario.

OLB is weak at the top IMO, but has very good depth with guys like Dan Conor and Earl Everett

MLB is above average at the top, but very little depth showing itself to this point. I feel you will be hard pressed to find a second stringer in the 3rd round this year.

CB is the absolute hardest position to judge. 90% or so of the talent is underclassmen. Hall is the top Senior, but guys like Cason and Revis make it an awesome class if they declare. CB could easily wind up being the second deepest position in the draft. Potential starters in the 2nd round is almost unheard of for CBs.

SS is thing, but strong. Griffin and Rouse highlite the position, but guys like ziboroski or w/e from ND and Welding from Wyoming could provide good depth.

FS is outstanding at the top with Landry and Nelson, but really falls off from there. McCauley may be made into a FS, and some may try it with Griffin, but I don't expect those to happen, and this will be one of the weakest positions in the draft.

dbspi
12-05-2006, 05:44 PM
How can a team possible focus on selecting Calvin Johnson in round 1 when the team has one of worst if not the worst OL in the league. Look at Oakland's game, even if we had CJ on our team it would not have done any good to us because David Carr never had a chance to even throw the ball of out of bound.

Charlie Casserly has put this team back so many years with all the wasted draft picks and personnel moves. It will take few years to just fix all the things he did wrong.

Let's take a time to analyze the team and team needs and may be look at the personal.

On the defensive line - We need another impact DT to go along with Mario Williams and Weaver. TJ has not really played up to his potential and who knows how he will fare next year. So far he has shown every sign of a player being declared BUST. With impact DT who can play run as well as pressure the QB will have huge impact on our team and it will free Mario Williams from being double or triple teamed every game and it will help in collapsing the pocket.

LB - We need to find some one who can play along with Demeco Ryans. Kailee Wong and Morlon Greenwood is not the answer. Our LB corp is very weak. Basically we wasted our money on Greenwood and rightfully speaking he should be cut next year.

CB - We need to find some one to play along side of DRob. move Faggins to nickle package.

FS - We need impact FS. We have never had this since inception.

SS - we are set here so no changes needed.

OC - we need STUD OC to take over from Flanagan.

OG - we are set here with Chester Pitts and Fred Weary and no changes required. We need to cut Mckinney ASAP.

T - Give another year to see how they gel and come back from injuries before drafting franchise LT and moving Spencer to RT.

Receiver - We are set here for now with AJ and Moulds.

TE - We are set here.

QB - ???

RB - We need to upgrade this position. DD is done and Gado and Lundy is really not a long term solution. These guys can be back up and change of pace backs but we need elite RB like AP or Lynch or some one good in this draft who can help us move the chain and allow us to control the clock effectively.

For us to succeed we have to fix the defense ASAP. We will never be like Colts on offense. With top echelon defense at least we will not get blown out of the game. Similar to what Chicago teams used to be from few years back.

Recommendation for future draft picks and personnel moves - Either fix offense or defense this off season because we can't fix both on one season.

Draft 2007 - If they decide to fix the offense this off season then do this -
Round 1 - draft Thomas (LT)
Round 2 - draft RB
Round 3 - OC
Round 4 - OG

If the team decides to fix the defense then do this -

Round 1 - Allan Branch and pair him with Mario and see how our front line creates havoc to opposite offenses.
Round 2 - FS
Round 3 - OLB
Round 4 - OC
Round 5 - OLB
Round 6 - K
Round 7 - P

Free Agency - Spend boat load of money and sign Clements and Briggs

Other off season moves - cut
Steve McKinney,
Mark Bruenner,
Kailee Wong,
Morlon Greenwood,
Weigart,
Dominic Davis (he is done playing),
Peek is lost in the FA (he really hasn't done anything in the regular season despite all the talents, Injury prone, time to move one and cut our loses.
Trade - Babin, not enough production (he hasn't been our answer either as a DE or OLB).

Future Out look: Check to see if players come back from injury successfully and weather they can GEL with another year under Kubiak system before addressing OL and QB. If OL is still struggling after Spencer comes back from injury successfully and if QB is still struggling in Kubiak system then draft franchise LT and get a veteran QB for 2008 season.

Draft 2008 -
Round 1 - Franchise LT
Round 2 - DT
Round 3 - OLB/CB/S

dbspi
12-05-2006, 06:01 PM
I'll try to break it down.

WR is probally the strongest position in the draft.

TE is one of the weakest, but with two studly prospets in Milller and Olsen, it will be good at the top.

QB is very weak in terms of first round talent. The second weakest in the past 5 years or so.

OT could is very strong, but is top heavy. Very little talent will make it past round one.

OG is decent. Blayock and the OG Auburn highlite the short list worthy of 1st day picks.

OC is about what it was last year. No prospects are as good as Mangold though. Datish and the Fresno C are the two best, but nothing more than mid second round talent.

FB is strong this year and is highlited by the FB from Rutgers

RB is actually pretty stong and fairly deep this year. AP and Lynch get the hype, but guys like Irons and Darby make for good 1st day alternatives.

DT is average as it stands, but could improve drasticly if Okam and the LSU guy enter.

DE is a very strong class again, especially at the top. Adams is the top guy...a smaller, better pass rushing Mario.

OLB is weak at the top IMO, but has very good depth with guys like Dan Conor and Earl Everett

MLB is above average at the top, but very little depth showing itself to this point. I feel you will be hard pressed to find a second stringer in the 3rd round this year.

CB is the absolute hardest position to judge. 90% or so of the talent is underclassmen. Hall is the top Senior, but guys like Cason and Revis make it an awesome class if they declare. CB could easily wind up being the second deepest position in the draft. Potential starters in the 2nd round is almost unheard of for CBs.

SS is thing, but strong. Griffin and Rouse highlite the position, but guys like ziboroski or w/e from ND and Welding from Wyoming could provide good depth.

FS is outstanding at the top with Landry and Nelson, but really falls off from there. McCauley may be made into a FS, and some may try it with Griffin, but I don't expect those to happen, and this will be one of the weakest positions in the draft.

Great work, I agree with you on most of these analysis.

TexansSeminole
12-05-2006, 06:18 PM
FS is outstanding at the top with Landry and Nelson, but really falls off from there. McCauley may be made into a FS, and some may try it with Griffin, but I don't expect those to happen, and this will be one of the weakest positions in the draft.

Yea, I think it is going to force up to select one of those guys early to bolster our safety position. I don't think Kubiak is going to go with CC Brown next year, so if we wanted an upgrade we would have to do it early.

Texian
12-05-2006, 07:05 PM
How can a team possible focus on selecting Calvin Johnson in round 1 when the team has one of worst if not the worst OL in the league. Look at Oakland's game, even if we had CJ on our team it would not have done any good to us because David Carr never had a chance to even throw the ball of out of bound.

He is just to good to pass up, doubt he will be available anyways

Charlie Casserly has put this team back so many years with all the wasted draft picks and personnel moves. It will take few years to just fix all the things he did wrong.

Let's take a time to analyze the team and team needs and may be look at the personal.

On the defensive line - We need another impact DT to go along with Mario Williams and Weaver. TJ has not really played up to his potential and who knows how he will fare next year. So far he has shown every sign of a player being declared BUST. With impact DT who can play run as well as pressure the QB will have huge impact on our team and it will free Mario Williams from being double or triple teamed every game and it will help in collapsing the pocket.

TJ was playing well, as well as anyone on the line when he got hurt. He started slow but he really turned it on once the season started

LB - We need to find some one who can play along with Demeco Ryans. Kailee Wong and Morlon Greenwood is not the answer. Our LB corp is very weak. Basically we wasted our money on Greenwood and rightfully speaking he should be cut next year.

Kubiak was giving Greenwood accolades Monday on how well he played(see Monday presser)

CB - We need to find some one to play along side of DRob. move Faggins to nickle package.

Depth is needed but Petey has played well at times

FS - We need impact FS. We have never had this since inception.

Agree, maybe LaRon Landry with the 1st pick

SS - we are set here so no changes needed.

OC - we need STUD OC to take over from Flanagan.

Strong possibility Weary could be moving to center


OG - we are set here with Chester Pitts and Fred Weary and no changes required. We need to cut Mckinney ASAP.

It does not look like Winston is cutting it at OT, could be moved to G

T - Give another year to see how they gel and come back from injuries before drafting franchise LT and moving Spencer to RT.

Leonard Davis, Mike Gandy top UFA T

Receiver - We are set here for now with AJ and Moulds.

TE - We are set here.

QB - ???

RB - We need to upgrade this position. DD is done and Gado and Lundy is really not a long term solution. These guys can be back up and change of pace backs but we need elite RB like AP or Lynch or some one good in this draft who can help us move the chain and allow us to control the clock effectively.

I do like Michael Bush

For us to succeed we have to fix the defense ASAP. We will never be like Colts on offense. With top echelon defense at least we will not get blown out of the game. Similar to what Chicago teams used to be from few years back.

Recommendation for future draft picks and personnel moves - Either fix offense or defense this off season because we can't fix both on one season.

Draft 2007 - If they decide to fix the offense this off season then do this -
Round 1 - draft Thomas (LT)
LaRon Landry
Round 2 - draft RB
Michael Bush, Rufus Alexander
Round 3 - OC
Doug Free
Round 4 - OG

threetoedpete
12-06-2006, 05:23 PM
The weakest link is safety, team needs more help against the run/pass on the backside....LaRon Landry or FA

It does not look like Winston is going to be the answer at OT and maybe more suitable to G....Doug Free, LT

Fast powerful OLB...Rufus Alexander

TJ was playing well until his injury. DL not a high priority.

A very slight outside chance Calvin Johnson would be available, to good to pass up.

Michael Bush RB is another possibilty in RD 2/3.

This is Winston's summer camp. Give the guy a break. We got gaurds lined up like planes stack at O'Hare in a snow storm. May take a swing guy whos fallen... and is a great value pick late day one, early day two.

If we're disscussing the same guy as your OLT prosepect...smells like Wand II to me.

TJ under acheived again this year. He palys to his tallent. Bit exspensive for #1 money in my book. Looking at DT again after picking one two years ago ? Gotta be a reason.

We have this two #1's on the same roster disscusion every draft. Stop it ! We can't even get a five step drop pattern off. I mean what is the point ? Ain't going to happen. Unless you're moving AJ out to bring CJ in ? Inquiring minds want to know. This is Alice in Wonderland stuff.

Texian
12-06-2006, 06:25 PM
This is Winston's summer camp. Give the guy a break. We got gaurds lined up like planes stack at O'Hare in a snow storm. May take a swing guy whos fallen... and is a great value pick late day one, early day two. I am just going by what I read in Kubiak's pressers. I think there is a good possibility that Weary could move to Center and Winston to Guard, you may disagree

If we're disscussing the same guy as your OLT prosepect...smells like Wand II to me. Don't know about the smell, do know he was lead blocker for Turner and Wolfe, a couple of 1000 yd rushers

TJ under acheived again this year. He palys to his tallent. Bit exspensive for #1 money in my book. Looking at DT again after picking one two years ago ? Gotta be a reason.I think you should go back and read some of Kubiak's pressers before TJ got hurt. Kubiak seemed pleased and thought TJ was playing well

We have this two #1's on the same roster disscusion every draft. Stop it ! We can't even get a five step drop pattern off. I mean what is the point ? Ain't going to happen. Unless you're moving AJ out to bring CJ in ? Inquiring minds want to know. This is Alice in Wonderland stuff!Calvin Johnson is the best weapon in the draft that would add the most improvement to the Texans offense. J&J tandem who do you double team, double threat would help run game, as for Alice, what does she say about Boldin & Fitzgerald, Harrison & Wayne, Smith and Johnson

YoungTexanFan
12-06-2006, 09:51 PM
as for Alice, what does she say about Boldin & Fitzgerald, Harrison & Wayne, Smith and Johnson

Alice would remind you of Eric Moulds and encourage you not to be late to the party.

painekiller
12-07-2006, 03:41 AM
I have to agree 2 games starting for a rookie OT is way to soon to call him a bust. Is he ready? No he makes mistakes, in college he was stronger than and quicker than the guys he played against on a weekly basis, and he did not need to get better.

Well now is a different story. He was schooled Sunday on techniques, when his broke down the NFL's #5 sack leader took advantage of him. That is why the old timer (Weigert) has been playing, he know how to counter every move the DE throws at him. Winston has not seen a guy line up half way to the WR and still beat him to the QB. It is about knowledge and coaching, give Winston some more time before calling him a bust.

I read Kubiaks quotes and he said, paraphrasing him here, most scouts projected Winston as a guard due to his short arms, those arms worked for him at Miami, they have not had enough time to determine if he will be a tackle, guard could be an option.

Oh and I think you are misguided none of those WR combos are two #1's, they all have defined roles. And if the QB is on his back before you count to 3 doesn't matter who the WR is now does it. Not saying Calvin Johnson isn't the best player in the draft, just that we have bigger problems then WR. Plus if we are picking 7, he will be gone.

I believe DT Alan Branch gives us the best chance at that draft position, why because Travis Johnson has played only well, not 1st round great. So we need a DT to help free up Mario. Johnson wasn't doing that. I am not saying cut Johnson only get someone better next to him.

dbspi
12-07-2006, 04:44 AM
I have to agree 2 games starting for a rookie OT is way to soon to call him a bust. Is he ready? No he makes mistakes, in college he was stronger than and quicker than the guys he played against on a weekly basis, and he did not need to get better.

Well now is a different story. He was schooled Sunday on techniques, when his broke down the NFL's #5 sack leader took advantage of him. That is why the old timer (Weigert) has been playing, he know how to counter every move the DE throws at him. Winston has not seen a guy line up half way to the WR and still beat him to the QB. It is about knowledge and coaching, give Winston some more time before calling him a bust.

I read Kubiaks quotes and he said, paraphrasing him here, most scouts projected Winston as a guard due to his short arms, those arms worked for him at Miami, they have not had enough time to determine if he will be a tackle, guard could be an option.

Oh and I think you are misguided none of those WR combos are two #1's, they all have defined roles. And if the QB is on his back before you count to 3 doesn't matter who the WR is now does it. Not saying Calvin Johnson isn't the best player in the draft, just that we have bigger problems then WR. Plus if we are picking 7, he will be gone.

I believe DT Alan Branch gives us the best chance at that draft position, why because Travis Johnson has played only well, not 1st round great. So we need a DT to help free up Mario. Johnson wasn't doing that. I am not saying cut Johnson only get someone better next to him.

I also want to see Texans draft Allan Branch for the same reason. I really like Adrian Peterson or Alan Branch for our first pick. Running the ball is also a huge concern to me and we need some one better then what we currently have.

our main concern going in to this off season should be to fix OL, DL, FS, CB, OLB.

Rookie CB gets abused allot in the NFL so I would prefer they spend boat load of money on Clements and sign him.

Maddict5
12-07-2006, 09:38 AM
damn we could really set ourselves up nicely if we had 2 1st rounders this year-

id nearly trade our 2nd and 3rd rounders to get up into RD1 again and take Landry/Nelson and Thomas/Gaithers etc

i mean lets face it- our other weak areas..DT,OLB,CB,RB could be filled just as easily in FA as we could in the mid rounds of the draft..and im not talking about briggs, clements etc who we wont land, but adequate, reasonably-priced players that will give us depth and the odd decent starter- not every player has to be an impact playmaker

personally i think next year we'll have 7/8 of the same starters again on defence (new DT, replace kailee,cc and maybe petey)

and on offence i think the only new personnel will be o-linemen and a RB

threetoedpete
12-08-2006, 11:33 AM
Hey what's everyone's opinion on Garret Wolfe? Is it just the weak conference contributing to his numbers? I mean 1900 yards and 18 tds... That's a hell of a season.

Honestly...I'd rather have the kid from Oregon St....day two.

threetoedpete
12-08-2006, 11:46 AM
This is Winston's summer camp. Give the guy a break. We got gaurds lined up like planes stack at O'Hare in a snow storm. May take a swing guy whos fallen... and is a great value pick late day one, early day two. I am just going by what I read in Kubiak's pressers. I think there is a good possibility that Weary could move to Center and Winston to Guard, you may disagree

Not going to bang on Eric yet. I do not see him at gaurd. Not in our division. I don't care what Kubes says.
If we're disscussing the same guy as your OLT prosepect...smells like Wand II to me. Don't know about the smell, do know he was lead blocker for Turner and Wolfe, a couple of 1000 yd rushers
Seth Wand was a prety fair run blocker also. Doen't mean we need another right tackle.

TJ under acheived again this year. He palys to his tallent. Bit exspensive for #1 money in my book. Looking at DT again after picking one two years ago ? Gotta be a reason.I think you should go back and read some of Kubiak's pressers before TJ got hurt. Kubiak seemed pleased and thought TJ was playing well

What else can the coach say about this under acheiving bump on the grass. We waisted the one on the guy ? He was picked at least one round too soon.
We have this two #1's on the same roster disscusion every draft. Stop it ! We can't even get a five step drop pattern off. I mean what is the point ? Ain't going to happen. Unless you're moving AJ out to bring CJ in ? Inquiring minds want to know. This is Alice in Wonderland stuff!Calvin Johnson is the best weapon in the draft that would add the most improvement to the Texans offense. J&J tandem who do you double team, double threat would help run game, as for Alice, what does she say about Boldin & Fitzgerald, Harrison & Wayne, Smith and Johnson


Does it matter ? If you can't get the pass off , who cares how bad the CB is beat ? Moot any way, he'll be off the board by the fifth pick.

Smith is not going to tie up that much money in the WR postion. That is a reciepe for disater. As I posted...pie-in-the sky, alice in Wonderland stuff. Tell the mad hatter hey for me.