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Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-04-2006, 05:12 PM
Listening to the coach right now. He still says Carr can take him to the promised land. Does he really believe it? Is it just window dressing? How many multiple fumble games can he take?

hot pickle
12-04-2006, 05:25 PM
to me it sounds like kubiak is gonna really improve this o-line this off-season, and then if carr still can't do what we expect him to do he will be done

Double Barrel
12-04-2006, 05:40 PM
Kubiak is going to play his cards close to his chest right now. If he plans on moving Carr, he wouldn't openly admit it now for a variety of reasons. He wouldn't want an open controversy in his locker room, and he wouldn't want to undermine his GM's ability to trade Carr in the off-season.

I wouldn't fret over too much that Kubiak says right now. Carr could very well be back next year, but I think it's a situation that could go either way at this point.

Texan Asylum
12-04-2006, 05:42 PM
Kubiak is going to play his cards close to his chest right now. If he plans on moving Carr, he wouldn't openly admit it now for a variety of reasons. He wouldn't want an open controversy in his locker room, and he wouldn't want to undermine his GM's ability to trade Carr in the off-season.

I wouldn't fret over too much that Kubiak says right now. Carr could very well be back next year, but I think it's a situation that could go either way at this point.
Sounds like 'sound' reasoning to me.

Wolf
12-04-2006, 05:46 PM
Kubiak is going to play his cards close to his chest right now. If he plans on moving Carr, he wouldn't openly admit it now for a variety of reasons. He wouldn't want an open controversy in his locker room, and he wouldn't want to undermine his GM's ability to trade Carr in the off-season.

I wouldn't fret over too much that Kubiak says right now. Carr could very well be back next year, but I think it's a situation that could go either way at this point.

very true..

Reddevil63
12-04-2006, 05:52 PM
He's not going to say anythind different for a while now. I would imagine Carr and Sage and maybe a rookie QB will have a chance at the starting job next year. Then if neither step up, the rookie QB would be ready to take the reigns in '08 and Carr will be on his merry way.

Texan_Bill
12-04-2006, 05:57 PM
He should be optimistic. He's a rookie HC. He has a core of 3 young guys on Defense that could be the start of a dominant "D" and has a couple of young weapons on offense too.

Besides, he gets paid to be enthusiastic about his optimism.... Next year it will be "produce time" and he will have to put his money where his mouth is.

edo783
12-04-2006, 06:53 PM
Carr will be back next year. Bank on it because the contract pretty much dictates that. However, a pick up of a Kid like Kolbe from UofH in the 3rd might be in the cards. No pressure to play him right away as a 3rd rounder. The kid seems to have some skills that could developed and then if the round brown orb hits the occillating object in 07 with Carr, he comes in to run the offense in 08.

phan1
12-04-2006, 07:04 PM
I really wish we knew what Kubiak was thinking. I really don't think he'll go right out and say Carr's job is in danger until he is seriously thinking of a long-term QB change. Kubiak obviously wants at least another year with Carr, and to be honest, I hope he's not putting too much blame on himself for Carr's dismal performance. That could really hold our team back from being a playoff team.

valleytexfan
12-04-2006, 07:21 PM
With the line we have, I'd hate almost any QB back there...

Texan Asylum
12-04-2006, 07:28 PM
Are they drugging Kubiak??????
Funny! The vision of Jack Nicholson from 'One flew over the cuckoo's nest' popped into my head from this post.

http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/Drama/Drama/OneFlewPil_sm.jpg

http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/Drama/Drama/OneFlewMcmurphy1_sm.jpg

NFLforher
12-04-2006, 07:47 PM
Kubiak is going to play his cards close to his chest right now. If he plans on moving Carr, he wouldn't openly admit it now for a variety of reasons. He wouldn't want an open controversy in his locker room, and he wouldn't want to undermine his GM's ability to trade Carr in the off-season.

I wouldn't fret over too much that Kubiak says right now. Carr could very well be back next year, but I think it's a situation that could go either way at this point.


Exactly. He's not stupid. Here's here to win, with or without the carr.

RTP2110
12-04-2006, 09:12 PM
I really think Carr will be here next year. You have to understand the question that was posed to Kubiak. Can we win a Super Bowl with David Carr? Kubiak wasn't asked if Carr could be the superstar or leader of a SB team. My understanding of the question was more along the lines of, if this team has all the other pieces in place, can we win with Carr. To me, that's just asking if car can just be a ''bus driver'' and not lose us games. Dilfer did it, and you could argue that Roethlisberger did it. You don't have to be a great QB to be a SB QB, and I think that was the answer Bob McNair was looking for. Can Carr do that? I think so, it's not too much to ask.

Mr teX
12-04-2006, 09:22 PM
I really think Carr will be here next year. You have to understand the question that was posed to Kubiak. Can we win a Super Bowl with David Carr? Kubiak wasn't asked if Carr could be the superstar or leader of a SB team. My understanding of the question was more along the lines of, if this team has all the other pieces in place, can we win with Carr. To me, that's just asking if car can just be a ''bus driver'' and not lose us games. Dilfer did it, and you could argue that Roethlisberger did it. You don't have to be a great QB to be a SB QB, and I think that was the answer Bob McNair was looking for. Can Carr do that? I think so, it's not too much to ask.

I agree, isolate the problem so that everyone is accountable. Significantly Upgrade the o-line & the D & if Carr is still doing what he's been doing.......Adios sir.

Too many people on this board get exciting football mixed up with winning football.

Wharton
12-04-2006, 10:13 PM
Kubiak is going to play his cards close to his chest right now. If he plans on moving Carr, he wouldn't openly admit it now for a variety of reasons. He wouldn't want an open controversy in his locker room, and he wouldn't want to undermine his GM's ability to trade Carr in the off-season.

I wouldn't fret over too much that Kubiak says right now. Carr could very well be back next year, but I think it's a situation that could go either way at this point.I agree totally, but want to add a little bit.

This year I'm called for a QB change. If we're still having this same problem at this time next year, I'll be call for more dramatic changes to be made. Coaching, ownership, whatever.

If we continue to be as incompetant as we are right now, you might as well rename us the Browns.

Hervoyel
12-04-2006, 10:40 PM
If we continue to be as incompetant as we are right now, you might as well rename us the Browns.


I assure you we're nowhere near that good. ;)

Napa Auto Parts
12-05-2006, 01:45 AM
I wonder if kubiak is willing to loose he's job over david carr:cowboy1:

Mattheus_Rex
12-05-2006, 02:18 AM
Listening to the coach right now. He still says Carr can take him to the promised land. Does he really believe it? Is it just window dressing? How many multiple fumble games can he take?

LOL Seems like fumbles are a tradition in Houston.

Most Fumbles, Career
161 Warren Moon, Houston, 1984-1993; Minnesota, 1994-96; Seattle, 1997-98; Kansas City, 1999-2000

http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/fumbles

OzzO
12-05-2006, 07:53 AM
790 had a snippet, I'm guessing from Kubiak's press conference, that said "this game (Titans) is a big game for David, all remaining 4 games are a big game for David".

790 also mentioned there was a closed door discussion with Kubiak and Carr.

Take that for what it's worth. Also, they had another point a caller made this morning that had an interesting point of view - that if Palmer was so bad with Carr here, then why is he succeeding with Romo in Dallas. The 790 guys mentioned it's the player that makes the coach, that players play. Also they questioned is Carr coachable? Why bother to untrain the bad habits when it's easy to regress back into them. Why not go find another that never had the bad habits to begin with?

I'm still in the camp of "Kubiak will do what's right for the team" so whatever comes of that. Funny thing is, quite a ways back Vinny was starting to see the shortcomings of Carr's QB style and quite a few posters back in the day disagreed. Seems times are changin'.

HJam72
12-05-2006, 09:08 AM
790 had a snippet, I'm guessing from Kubiak's press conference, that said "this game (Titans) is a big game for David, all remaining 4 games are a big game for David".

790 also mentioned there was a closed door discussion with Kubiak and Carr.

Take that for what it's worth. Also, they had another point a caller made this morning that had an interesting point of view - that if Palmer was so bad with Carr here, then why is he succeeding with Romo in Dallas. The 790 guys mentioned it's the player that makes the coach, that players play. Also they questioned is Carr coachable? Why bother to untrain the bad habits when it's easy to regress back into them. Why not go find another that never had the bad habits to begin with?

I'm still in the camp of "Kubiak will do what's right for the team" so whatever comes of that. Funny thing is, quite a ways back Vinny was starting to see the shortcomings of Carr's QB style and quite a few posters back in the day disagreed. Seems times are changin'.

I've said since before Palmer was even fired that he was a scapegoat. That being said (many times), Dallas has a better O-line and Palmer's play-calling was constantly stifled by Capers (and the O-line). I know Dallas has won more with Romo than the other guy, but they've always had a better O-line than us.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-05-2006, 09:11 AM
I've said since before Palmer was even fired that he was a scapegoat. That being said (many times), Dallas has a better O-line and Palmer's play-calling was constantly stifled by Capers (and the O-line). I know Dallas has won more with Romo than the other guy, but they've always had a better O-line than us.


Dallas is just much more talented all around than the Texans. We may match up well with them at a number of positions, but they have pretty good talent and depth at every position.

thunderkyss
12-05-2006, 12:48 PM
I really think Carr will be here next year. You have to understand the question that was posed to Kubiak. Can we win a Super Bowl with David Carr? Kubiak wasn't asked if Carr could be the superstar or leader of a SB team. My understanding of the question was more along the lines of, if this team has all the other pieces in place, can we win with Carr. To me, that's just asking if car can just be a ''bus driver'' and not lose us games. Dilfer did it, and you could argue that Roethlisberger did it. You don't have to be a great QB to be a SB QB, and I think that was the answer Bob McNair was looking for. Can Carr do that? I think so, it's not too much to ask.

That would make sense, if Kubiak was known for building stellar defenses, and winning with bus driver QBs........ nothing could be further from the truth.

I wonder if kubiak is willing to loose he's job over david carr:cowboy1:

It's not just his job, it's his credibility. Look at Barry Switzer, Chan Gailey, and who ever that other guy was(I can't ever remember his name). They were considered good coaches at one time, ready for the big stage, and because they tried to make something work because of a stubburn owner/GM, no one gave them another shot in the NFL.

I don't know if Kubiak is a good coach or not, but if it's true that he'd get fired if he replaces Carr, then so what...... he'll get fired for not benching Carr, and never get a headcoaching job again. He'll be considered a failure.

Second Honeymoon
12-05-2006, 01:19 PM
I've said since before Palmer was even fired that he was a scapegoat. That being said (many times), Dallas has a better O-line and Palmer's play-calling was constantly stifled by Capers (and the O-line). I know Dallas has won more with Romo than the other guy, but they've always had a better O-line than us.

Their offensive line is no better or worse than ours. Before they made the change they were giving up sacks left and right and Bledsoe would never have time to throw. Kinda suspicious that once they made a change there were no more sacks. Some of the less knowledgeable fans (homers) dont realize that the OL isnt responsible for every sack. Sometimes poor reading of coverage, slow delivery of the ball, and a QB not finding a passing lane are what cause sacks. The OLine excuse is really old and holds little to no water.

doug

coachdent
12-05-2006, 01:34 PM
Their offensive line is no better or worse than ours. Before they made the change they were giving up sacks left and right and Bledsoe would never have time to throw. Kinda suspicious that once they made a change there were no more sacks. Some of the less knowledgeable fans (homers) dont realize that the OL isnt responsible for every sack. Sometimes poor reading of coverage, slow delivery of the ball, and a QB not finding a passing lane are what cause sacks. The OLine excuse is really old and holds little to no water.

doug

Not going to get into a debate with you because you think what you want to think and aren't going to change. But your comment that the Oline "excuse holds little to no water" is some serious denial on your part and sadly mistaken.

I won't go completely nuts with the stats with you from Sunday and into a detailed analysis of each play...I could... but let's leave it at this:

Carr was sacked 4 times in 6 consecutive pass attempts.
We attempted 28 passes.
Carr was sacked 5 times.
He scrambled away 3 times.
He was hit 12 times.

If your quarterback is standing upright for 16 out of 28 pass attempts, I wouldn't exactly call the Oline stellar, awesome, great, good, ok, not bad, improving, good enough, not real good, or even real bad. I would tend to gravitate a little bit further south of that my friend. Our offensive line is NOT the Dallas Cowboys. If you think after three injuries to the offensive line and starting a couple of rookies over the course of the season is equivalent to what the Cowboys have, then there must be a helluva lot of suck in the Texans because we should be a playoff team with that analogy!

Your analogy between Bledsoe, a statue, and Carr is also woefully inept. Carr is amongst the league leading rushing quarterbacks, something that Bledsoe definitely is not. Carr can move, Bledsoe cannot.

NOT a Carr is God answer.
NOT a Carr apologist.
NOT even the biggest Carr backer.
AM someone who realizes that you can't heap the entire blame on one guy.
AM someone who says our offensive scheme is not that good right now.
AM someone smart enough to know that our offensive line has long been the achilles heel of this franchise and until we fix that, we are bound to struggle to find consistency in anything we do.

real
12-05-2006, 02:05 PM
AM someone smart enough to know that our offensive line has long been the achilles heel of this franchise and until we fix that, we are bound to struggle to find consistency in anything we do.

The analogy between Bledsoe and Carr doesn't have anything to do with their skill sets....

The analogy is between the teams....We may or may not be on the Cowboys level with a QB change, but we may still be a better overall team with a different QB....

Meaning: If the Cowboys can jump from M-Z with a change we can go from A-L with a change...


Personally I don't think our line is horrible....IMO, all we need to add is one more starter, and one or two more depth guys....Our O-line isn't that bad...If we are completely healthy this season I don't think our line is much of an issue..

The same statement that I quoted you on above is the same thing Dallas fans were saying about their O-line b4 Romo took over....

Specnatz
12-05-2006, 02:58 PM
Their offensive line is no better or worse than ours. Before they made the change they were giving up sacks left and right and Bledsoe would never have time to throw. Kinda suspicious that once they made a change there were no more sacks. Some of the less knowledgeable fans (homers) dont realize that the OL isnt responsible for every sack. Sometimes poor reading of coverage, slow delivery of the ball, and a QB not finding a passing lane are what cause sacks. The OLine excuse is really old and holds little to no water.

doug

Really?? No more sacks? Then why does it say Romno has 9 sacks compared to the 16 that Bledsoe has. Bledsoe is the least mobile QB in the league where Romo rolls more out of the pocket.

In the Raiders game Carr took a three step drop and was dropped on more than one occassion. Your hatred has blinded you more than any homer could ever be blind. You only see what you want to see without any real analyst of the game and what is going on. There is a differance in an excuse and in fact. An excuse is what you say when you have no facts to back up a statment. A fact is something that is true.

Saying the O-line is the worst part of the team is subject to debate, but saying the O-line is one aspect of the team that needs help is a fact. Try and be a little objective and people will take you seriously, but for now no one does because you say the same thing over and over without any real facts or analyst. Calling anyone who disagrees with you a homer does not help either.

real
12-05-2006, 03:00 PM
In the Raiders game Carr took a three step drop and was dropped on more than one occassion.



If Carr is getting dropped on 3 step drops, most likely it's his fault....

texan279
12-05-2006, 03:14 PM
Their offensive line is no better or worse than ours. Before they made the change they were giving up sacks left and right and Bledsoe would never have time to throw. Kinda suspicious that once they made a change there were no more sacks. Some of the less knowledgeable fans (homers) dont realize that the OL isnt responsible for every sack. Sometimes poor reading of coverage, slow delivery of the ball, and a QB not finding a passing lane are what cause sacks. The OLine excuse is really old and holds little to no water.

doug

The Dallas O line has given up 25 sacks this season, Bledsoe was sacked 16 times and Romo has been sacked 9 times, so the whole "no more sacks" thing doesn't stick. Dallas also has 3 former pro bowl linemen starting on the offensive line. Dallas has two backs with over 500 yards this season, our leading rusher has 448 yards rushing. And no, this post is not an excuse for Carr, but to say our offensive line is on the same level as the Cowboys line is kind of out there, they have a much better offensive line.

real
12-05-2006, 03:18 PM
The Dallas O line has given up 25 sacks this season, Bledsoe was sacked 16 times and Romo has been sacked 9 times, so the whole "no more sacks" thing doesn't stick. Dallas also has 3 former pro bowl linemen starting on the offensive line. Dallas has two backs with over 500 yards this season, our leading rusher has 448 yards rushing. And no, this post is not an excuse for Carr, but to say our offensive line is on the same level as the Cowboys line is kind of out there, they have a much better offensive line.

I don't 100% agree with honeymoon, but I do believe that when totally healthy our line is pretty good...JMO:cowboy1:

texan279
12-05-2006, 03:18 PM
If Carr is getting dropped on 3 step drops, most likely it's his fault....

Did you forget the sarcasm tags? Or are you honestly saying if Carr cannot take a 3 step drop before he gets hit it's his fault? Do you know how long it takes to make a three step drop?

texan279
12-05-2006, 03:19 PM
I don't 100% agree with honeymoon, but I do believe that when totally healthy our line is pretty good...JMO:cowboy1:

But to say our offensive line equals the Cowboy's offensive line is absurd.

HOU-TEX
12-05-2006, 03:23 PM
Did you forget the sarcasm tags? Or are you honestly saying if Carr cannot take a 3 step drop before he gets hit it's his fault? Do you know how long it takes to make a three step drop?

I ran over our cat last week and the only one I blamed for it was Carr. I don't know why. Maybe I'm just used to blaming him for everything.:shrug:

real
12-05-2006, 03:38 PM
Did you forget the sarcasm tags? Or are you honestly saying if Carr cannot take a 3 step drop before he gets hit it's his fault? Do you know how long it takes to make a three step drop?

Don't put words in my mouth...

If Carr is being hit BEFORE he takes his drop then of course it's on the line...That means they are just letting them in like....OLE!!!

I said that most likely if Carr is getting sacked on three step drops it's his fault....Three step drops are supposed to be fairly quick decisive throws...

He doesn't have time to pump fake...Go through progressions...shuffle his feet....Stutter and stumble around....

Unless Carr is getting immediate in his face pressure on the three step drops, most likely it's his fault....

real
12-05-2006, 03:41 PM
But to say our offensive line equals the Cowboy's offensive line is absurd.

Yes that is absurd...

But it's also absurd to look at our line healthy and say the suck...

I don't think we have a dominant line, But I do believe that if healthy and with a QB with pocket presence, the OL isn't an issue....

HOU-TEX
12-05-2006, 03:43 PM
Don't put words in my mouth...

If Carr is being hit BEFORE he takes his drop then of course it's on the line...That means they are just letting them in like....OLE!!!

I said that most likely if Carr is getting sacked on three step drops it's his fault....Three step drops are supposed to be fairly quick decisive throws...

He doesn't have time to pump fake...Go through progressions...shuffle his feet....Stutter and stumble around....

Unless Carr is getting immediate in his face pressure on the three step drops, most likely it's his fault....

Isn't it the 3 step drops when he beans the defensive linemen? He needs to get out of the pocket. He either has the ball batted down or gets sacked on 3step drops. He'll get sacked for sure taking a 5-7 step drop with our present Oline.

real
12-05-2006, 03:48 PM
He'll get sacked for sure taking a 5-7 step drop with our present Oline.

As an O-Lineman...If my man is the guy who jumps up to bat a ball down Im taking tha blame for that...

The QB needs to be taking blame for it as well....

HOU-TEX
12-05-2006, 03:56 PM
As an O-Lineman...If my man is the guy who jumps up to bat a ball down Im taking tha blame for that...

The QB needs to be taking blame for it as well....

A majority of the time they don't even have to jump. They put thier arms up and block the ball. How can an Olineman prevent that? Most of the blame should be on DCs delivery. He either needs to drop back 5-7 steps (which he'll be sacked) or roll out of the pocket. I've never seen an offense get so many balls batted down.

Goatcheese
12-05-2006, 03:58 PM
Yes that is absurd...

But it's also absurd to look at our line healthy and say the suck...

I don't think we have a dominant line, But I do believe that if healthy and with a QB with pocket presence, the OL isn't an issue....

When they were healthy Carr played much better, averaging ~220 yards and 2 tds/game. As the line has lost starters Carr has gotten worse. See the link?

Bad o-line play translates directly into bad QB play. Simple.

Yankee_In_TX
12-05-2006, 03:58 PM
If I hear we're "making progress" one more time....!!!!

Texan_Bill
12-05-2006, 04:05 PM
If I hear we're "making progress" one more time....!!!!

We've made strides........

HOU-TEX
12-05-2006, 04:17 PM
When they were healthy Carr played much better, averaging ~220 yards and 2 tds/game. As the line has lost starters Carr has gotten worse. See the link?

Bad o-line play translates directly into bad QB play. Simple.

Through the first 4 games the Oline gave up 15 sacks and we rushed for 312 yards.

The last 4 games the Oline gave up 14 sacks and we rushed for 496 yards. So having said that, has the Oline gotten worse? I think so, but it can be argued both ways.

Some of those yards and TDs in the early portion of the season were in garbage time as well.:hides:

I believe both the Oline and QB are terrible right now.

http://www.nfl.com/scores/2006/week10

Mr. White
12-05-2006, 04:28 PM
Also, they had another point a caller made this morning that had an interesting point of view - that if Palmer was so bad with Carr here, then why is he succeeding with Romo in Dallas. The 790 guys mentioned it's the player that makes the coach, that players play. Also they questioned is Carr coachable? Why bother to untrain the bad habits when it's easy to regress back into them. Why not go find another that never had the bad habits to begin with?


Not to mention all the talk about the OL in Dallas was that they were so bad while Drew Bledsoe was playing QB. Funny we don't hear that anymore.

real
12-05-2006, 04:28 PM
When they were healthy Carr played much better, averaging ~220 yards and 2 tds/game. As the line has lost starters Carr has gotten worse. See the link?

Bad o-line play translates directly into bad QB play. Simple.

Yeah...You're right....

And Bad WR play, translates into bad QB play....

Bad RB play translates into bad QB play.....

Bad OL play translates into bad RB play.....

Bad RB play translates into Bad QB play, which translates into bad WR play, which translates back into bad QB play, which makes him jumpy in the pocket, which translates into bad OL pass blocking which translates into bad QB play, which translates into bad OL play, which translates into bad QB play.............................................. ............................................

That's right....everyone is to blame for Carr's poor performance.............except Carr of course....

thunderkyss
12-05-2006, 04:59 PM
The Dallas O line has given up 25 sacks this season, Bledsoe was sacked 16 times and Romo has been sacked 9 times, so the whole "no more sacks" thing doesn't stick. Dallas also has 3 former pro bowl linemen starting on the offensive line. Dallas has two backs with over 500 yards this season, our leading rusher has 448 yards rushing. And no, this post is not an excuse for Carr, but to say our offensive line is on the same level as the Cowboys line is kind of out there, they have a much better offensive line.

Bledsoe played in 5.5 games, and was sacked 16 times. had he played in 12 games that would work out to be 36 sacks.

Romo has been sacked 9 times, in 6.5 games. had he played 12 games, that would work out to be 16 sacks.

Carr has been sacked 34 times in 11.5 games. had he played in 12 games, that would work out to be 36.......

The Cowboys line is about as bad as ours in pass protection.

you've got to be the biggest David Carr homer not to see that.

thunderkyss
12-05-2006, 05:01 PM
On the three fumbles at the end of the first half, two were on 7 step drops, one was on a 3 step drop. All three times, David loaded up to throw the ball, then pulled it back down.

real
12-05-2006, 05:01 PM
Bledsoe played in 5.5 games, and was sacked 16 times. had he played in 12 games that would work out to be 36 sacks.

Romo has been sacked 9 times, in 6.5 games. had he played 12 games, that would work out to be 16 sacks.

Carr has been sacked 34 times in 11.5 games. had he played in 12 games, that would work out to be 36.......

The Cowboys line is about as bad as ours in pass protection.

you've got to be the biggest David Carr homer not to see that.

Wow....you're on a roll today....

Hulk75
12-05-2006, 05:07 PM
I see a 95% chance Carr is the QB next year, BUT That is just what I think.:cool:

real
12-05-2006, 05:08 PM
I see a 95% chance Carr is the QB next year, BUT That is just what I think.:cool:

I say at this moment it's about an 85% chance....:cowboy1:

TexansSeminole
12-05-2006, 05:09 PM
When they were healthy Carr played much better, averaging ~220 yards and 2 tds/game. As the line has lost starters Carr has gotten worse. See the link?

Bad o-line play translates directly into bad QB play. Simple.

Yes, but association is not causation. Most of the time when starters of an offense drop, the productiveness of that offense will also decrease. This does not mean that the injuries on our offense are the sole reason Carr is playing bad and getting worse.

bigTEXan8
12-05-2006, 05:15 PM
can the texans go back to the offense they had back in 04, the year they went 7-9. i'd give anything to have that back.

Runner
12-05-2006, 05:18 PM
can the texans go back to the offense they had back in 04, the year they went 7-9. i'd give anything to have that back.


It would be simple - just two steps:

1) Go back in time
2) Make sure Joe Pendry is never a Texans coach

Goatcheese
12-05-2006, 07:02 PM
=HOU-TEX]Through the first 4 games the Oline gave up 15 sacks and we rushed for 312 yards.

The last 4 games the Oline gave up 14 sacks and we rushed for 496 yards. So having said that, has the Oline gotten worse? I think so, but it can be argued both ways.


The number of sacks doesn't tell the whole story. We threw downfield more in the first few games, and Carr had to wait for routes to develop leading to more sacks. The line has gotten alot worse without spencer, Wiegert, and Flannagin. Well, mayby not Wiegert. The ammount of time Carr has to make a read and get the ball out is much lower now.

And Bad WR play, translates into bad QB play....


If the recievers are dropping alot of passes then yes, it's going to affect the QB.

Bad RB play translates into bad QB play.....


It can limit play calling and allow defenses to focus on stopping the passing game.

Bad OL play translates into bad RB play.....


Too true. Running backs are potentially more reliant on o-line perfomance than a QB.

That's right....everyone is to blame for Carr's poor performance.............except Carr of course....

Carr deserves alot of the blaim for his performance because he played very poorly. The O-line also deserves alot of blaim.

Just because I don't spam every thread on the boards with ignorant "CARR SUCKS FIREHIMNOW!!!1!!" BS doesn't mean I don't see his failures. There are enough people already doing that, so I focus on less discussed topics.

Bledsoe played in 5.5 games, and was sacked 16 times. had he played in 12 games that would work out to be 36 sacks.

Romo has been sacked 9 times, in 6.5 games. had he played 12 games, that would work out to be 16 sacks.

Carr has been sacked 34 times in 11.5 games. had he played in 12 games, that would work out to be 36.......

The Cowboys line is about as bad as ours in pass protection.

you've got to be the biggest David Carr homer not to see that.

That doesn't make any sense at all. I could just as easily say that those numbers mean carr would have only been sacked 16 times playing 12 games behind the cowboys line and bledsoe would have been sacked 72 times in 12 games playing behind our line. They're different lines with different QBs and you can't really make a direct comparison like that.

Runner
12-05-2006, 07:08 PM
The line has gotten alot worse without spencer, Wiegert, and Flannagin. Well, mayby not Wiegert.

Actually it has gotten worse without Wiegert. Go figure.

edo783
12-05-2006, 07:54 PM
A thought on the 3 step drop and our O-line. Look at the plays and note that the defensive players push our guys back 2-3 yards in under 1-1.5 seconds. Now, if car is taking a three step drop that puts him about 3 yards deep. So, at about the time he has to get rid of the ball his own lineman are basically in his lap (that's if the D-lineman haven't clobberd him yet). So what you have is basically zero pocket and guys with in a foot or two of the QB. It has been obviouse to me that the DC's book on how beat the Texans offense is if with in the first 1-1.5 second you havent reached the QB, start jumping with hands in the air. (that started in J-vill)

To get a feel for what this might feel like for Carr, go stand about 3 feet from one of your walls and try to picture how you would throw the ball over the top of the 8 ft. wall. Yes, he should slide to get an opening to throw through, but there haven't been many. IMO, we haven't moved Carr outside like we should when the line isn't able to protect. It would give some throwing lanes and a bit more time.

thunderkyss
12-05-2006, 08:10 PM
That doesn't make any sense at all. I could just as easily say that those numbers mean carr would have only been sacked 16 times playing 12 games behind the cowboys line and bledsoe would have been sacked 72 times in 12 games playing behind our line. They're different lines with different QBs and you can't really make a direct comparison like that.

The Cowboys sucked with Bledsoe..... they couldn't protect worth a crap.

With Romo, they'll probably send 4 out of 5 offensive linemen to the probowl. get Carr's nuts off your chin, and you'll be able to see how that relates to what we have here in Houston.

Goldeagle
12-05-2006, 08:49 PM
to me it sounds like kubiak is gonna really improve this o-line this off-season, and then if carr still can't do what we expect him to do he will be done


I agree with this statement. Someone said we need depth and improvement on our O-line because when you have only 1 starter still starting you are in trouble.

Nighthawk
12-05-2006, 09:09 PM
Not going to get into a debate with you because you think what you want to think and aren't going to change. But your comment that the Oline "excuse holds little to no water" is some serious denial on your part and sadly mistaken.

I won't go completely nuts with the stats with you from Sunday and into a detailed analysis of each play...I could... but let's leave it at this:

Carr was sacked 4 times in 6 consecutive pass attempts.
We attempted 28 passes.
Carr was sacked 5 times.
He scrambled away 3 times.
He was hit 12 times.

If your quarterback is standing upright for 16 out of 28 pass attempts, I wouldn't exactly call the Oline stellar, awesome, great, good, ok, not bad, improving, good enough, not real good, or even real bad. I would tend to gravitate a little bit further south of that my friend. Our offensive line is NOT the Dallas Cowboys. If you think after three injuries to the offensive line and starting a couple of rookies over the course of the season is equivalent to what the Cowboys have, then there must be a helluva lot of suck in the Texans because we should be a playoff team with that analogy!

Your analogy between Bledsoe, a statue, and Carr is also woefully inept. Carr is amongst the league leading rushing quarterbacks, something that Bledsoe definitely is not. Carr can move, Bledsoe cannot.

NOT a Carr is God answer.
NOT a Carr apologist.
NOT even the biggest Carr backer.
AM someone who realizes that you can't heap the entire blame on one guy.
AM someone who says our offensive scheme is not that good right now.
AM someone smart enough to know that our offensive line has long been the achilles heel of this franchise and until we fix that, we are bound to struggle to find consistency in anything we do.

Far be it from me to disagree with the inestimable CoachDent, but I have the feeling that even with a good, or pretty good offensive line Carr would still suck. The problem is his radically limited feel for the game. He just doesn't seem to know what's going on most of the time, he acts out of memorized plans, he has no touch to speak of when he tries to move in the pocket, and when he's out of the pocket he runs like a goose. Cf. VY for the antithesis of Carr--he's all feel all the time, plays from the gut and on instinct, while at the same time polishing (and very quickly) his skills. He's amazing that way. Reminds you of Favre and some older players. Young is a player. Carr is a tin soldier.

I can't figure if he's just dumb as dirt, or he's got some white men can't jump thing, or some other set of reasons--he's stiff and awkward, blundering, always on the wrong foot, nervous, afraid, a real liability first to last. They should have jettisoned him a couple years ago. THe only question now is whether or not the bozos in the front office have enough sense to get rid of him in the off season.

Fixing this problem won't fix everything about the team, but it'll go a long way toward putting the team on track for success in the future.

Runner
12-05-2006, 09:37 PM
I agree with this statement. Someone said we need depth and improvement on our O-line because when you have only 1 starter still starting you are in trouble.

Our coaches have had the opporunity to learn a lesson about depth this year. They may have learned the importance of balancing their roster to provide crucial depth at key positions. This year they had a tendancy to get cute with using multi-role players to save rosters spots. They then used these same spots to hold onto players that rarely suit up, much less play.

This approach didn't turn out to be wise once injuries occurred and they needed better players at single positions. Next year they might build a more standard 53 man roster.

kingh99
12-05-2006, 09:41 PM
Far be it from me to disagree with the inestimable CoachDent, but I have the feeling that even with a good, or pretty good offensive line Carr would still suck. The problem is his radically limited feel for the game. He just doesn't seem to know what's going on most of the time, he acts out of memorized plans, he has no touch to speak of when he tries to move in the pocket, and when he's out of the pocket he runs like a goose. Cf. VY for the antithesis of Carr--he's all feel all the time, plays from the gut and on instinct, while at the same time polishing (and very quickly) his skills. He's amazing that way. Reminds you of Favre and some older players. Young is a player. Carr is a tin soldier.

I can't figure if he's just dumb as dirt, or he's got some white men can't jump thing, or some other set of reasons--he's stiff and awkward, blundering, always on the wrong foot, nervous, afraid, a real liability first to last. They should have jettisoned him a couple years ago. THe only question now is whether or not the bozos in the front office have enough sense to get rid of him in the off season.

Fixing this problem won't fix everything about the team, but it'll go a long way toward putting the team on track for success in the future.


If there was a way, I would put this up for post of the year. This is the essence of this organizations's dilemma. Mr. Nighthawk expresses the feelings of a lot of us to a T. You need to get this message posted on Texan Chick's Blog. It hurts but dog gone it, it takes pressure to create a diamond. David Carr can't hack it as an NFL QB. I lost all respect for McNair as a decisive owner when he failed to act boldly in the off season.