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TheOgre
12-04-2006, 12:35 PM
This team has a ton of needs going into next season. For the sake of argument, lets say that you could "fix" three positions on this team. What would they be, and why? Keep in mind that if you say QB and RB but don't include any solutions to the O-line, you might still be in a similar situation offensively in 2007.

I'll give you my selections tomorrow.

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2006, 12:52 PM
OLine

Go and get one NFL ready player and two more development type guys in the draft. Bring in one starter via FA

Safety

Get an impact guy in the draft.

CB

Go and get the best FA available.

QB

Keep Carr next year but designate him as the #3 before training camp. Draft a QB (anywhere but the first three rounds) and open the camp with no designated starter.

painekiller
12-04-2006, 01:17 PM
If the draft was picked today, the team would have the 7th pick in the draft and with the 1st round pick I would go with Allen Branch, DT. Put him next to Mario and you cause all kinds of problems.

2nd I would look at Terdell Sands DT as a FA pickup from the Raiders. This would give me a DL of Weaver 6'3" 280, Sands 6'7" 335, Branch 6'6" 330, Williams 6'7" 295. Keep Kalu, and the other young DTs in the mix.

In the 2nd round I take the best Safety on the board, hopefully Reggie Nelson from Florida to play FS. This addresses some of the problems Faggins has with fast guys, he would get a better FS to help over the top.

With the added beef to the DL, and a ball hawk center fielder the defense should be improved. Hopefully but not in the scope of the question The rest of the draft is as productive as the 2006 draft.

Double Barrel
12-04-2006, 01:21 PM
My three upgrade positions: offensive line, offensive line, safety

We need quality and depth on our o-line. Kubiak's offense is based on consistently running the ball, and it fails without that key element.

As far as safety, we need a dominant player that can prevent the big plays, as well as knock the snot out of ball carriers. We're building a good foundation, but we need another dominant player in our coverage.

Texans Horror
12-04-2006, 01:42 PM
I think if you are going to draft "talent" on an o-line, then you are drafting tackles, and the Texans have two already. Plus, like last year, they know they need more talent on defense. So this is what I think the Texans will do:

1st: Safety - take the best one we can get. That will help fill our second-biggest hole.

2nd: Linebacker - Demeco is phenomenal, but the others are getting old and depleted. It's time to draft another solid linebacker.

3rd: Center - Neither Hodgdon nor Flanagan are the centers of the future. Once Sherman leaves, Flanagan will be out.

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2006, 01:46 PM
I think if you are going to draft "talent" on an o-line, then you are drafting tackles, and the Texans have two already.

I would not count on Spencer or Winston as being serviceable Tackles at this moment. We need bodies and competition in my opinion at the most maligned unit in our brief history.

kingh99
12-04-2006, 01:48 PM
If the draft was picked today, the team would have the 7th pick in the draft and with the 1st round pick I would go with Allen Branch, DT. Put him next to Mario and you cause all kinds of problems.

2nd I would look at Terdell Sands DT as a FA pickup from the Raiders. This would give me a DL of Weaver 6'3" 280, Sands 6'7" 335, Branch 6'6" 330, Williams 6'7" 295. Keep Kalu, and the other young DTs in the mix.

In the 2nd round I take the best Safety on the board, hopefully Reggie Nelson from Florida to play FS. This addresses some of the problems Faggins has with fast guys, he would get a better FS to help over the top.

With the added beef to the DL, and a ball hawk center fielder the defense should be improved. Hopefully but not in the scope of the question The rest of the draft is as productive as the 2006 draft.

You are thinking like me. The secondary gets really good really fast when the opposing QB is scared for his life. The only downside and that's only if you are a lifelong hater no matter what, is that Carr becomes serviceable in a team with a dominant defense and a running game. That's the conundrum. The fastest path to getting respectable may be to keep the guy and go for the Ravens/TB approach to winning a SB.

kingh99
12-04-2006, 01:50 PM
My three upgrade positions: offensive line, offensive line, safety

We need quality and depth on our o-line. Kubiak's offense is based on consistently running the ball, and it fails without that key element.

As far as safety, we need a dominant player that can prevent the big plays, as well as knock the snot out of ball carriers. We're building a good foundation, but we need another dominant player in our coverage.

The O-line problems are as much a problem with Carr's lack of mental nimbleness as anything. Don't tell me those guys can't protect if he's giving them something to work with. He gets mentally tongue tied and they get the grief? That excuse ended forever yesterday.

Texan_Bill
12-04-2006, 01:59 PM
OLine
Go and get one NFL ready player and two more development type guys in the draft. Bring in one starter via FA

Safety

Get an impact guy in the draft.

CB

Go and get the best FA available.

QB

Keep Carr next year but designate him as the #3 before training camp. Draft a QB (anywhere but the first three rounds) and open the camp with no designated starter.


LOL, Sorry Kaiser, thats 5 right there - you sir, are over the limit :shoot:

GP
12-04-2006, 02:06 PM
1. Running Back: Go after a legitimate runner in FA. No more reaches. Use Lundy as a situational back and as depth. We need a seasoned vet unless Lundy is going to mature quickly in his sophomore year with us...which could happen, I mean..it seems that guys (other than Demeco and Mario) need a year under the belt to adjust to the pro game. I cannot help but think that we'd be better with a more savvy runner.

2. O Line: I'd spend early picks on o line unless there was a steal at o line waiting for us later in the draft.

3. D line: Mario is freeing up guys like Kalu and Demeco. If we had Mario, Kalu, and then 2 more studs to add to the mix that we already have...I'd be happy about the secondary getting upgraded through mid-level draft picks. Then, we'd see Mario eating up QBs like cereal. And a scared QB, like another poster said, is a mistaken-prone QB...and thus, it makes your secondary a lot better than it might actually be.

Meloy
12-04-2006, 02:12 PM
The O-line problems are as much a problem with Carr's lack of mental nimbleness as anything. Don't tell me those guys can't protect if he's giving them something to work with. He gets mentally tongue tied and they get the grief? That excuse ended forever yesterday.

Come on Kingh99, you mean to say that Winston did not look like a revolving door yesterday? I am a Carr fan but he was terrible I agree. The O line has almost never pass blocked successfully. I thought the guys we got from the beginning including Boselli were for their PASS blocking skills. There are several problems to fix.

Second Honeymoon
12-04-2006, 02:16 PM
Well with our 1st round pick we need to go with best player available that isn't a QB. As for the rest of the draft and through Free Agency I would say we have need to find 'three new starters' at:

CB - Clements is probably a pipedream but I say shoot for the moon. Sadly, I don't see any CB worthy of a Top10 draft pick.
DT - If we pick 7th or later DT Branch from BigBlue may be the way to go. We just need more depth irregardless.
FS - If we pick 10th or later S Landry from LSU may be the way to go. Very glaring need.

I may be in the minority here, but I dont think we need to completely retool our OL. It's not surprise that when Flanagan went down, our OL has gotten progressively worse. It would be nice to find some more quality depth via FA and hope our young guys continue to develop and have better luck with injuries. Another plus would be if Sherman sticks around for another year. I hope he doesnt take the rumored HC job being offered in college.

Oh, and the Texans need to stay away from drafting an early round QB. If Kolb is around in the 4th round, pick him up but we need to build our team around defense and a good running game. I think our OL and scheme in general is well suited to this and we already have two good 3rd down threats in Moulds and Johnson. We just need to get a capable veteran QB to manage the games and make plays when needed. In the meantime, our young QBs can learn about the NFL holding a clipboard and not behind center.

I think Plummer makes some sense due to his knowledge of Kubiak's system and offensive mindset. He probably isn't going to lead us to the Super Bowl but he would help us compete at a higher level from day one. I just don't want to give anything up for a QB. There are lots of QBs just busting out waiting for their chance to start. I dont think we have to overpay for one.

srstex
12-04-2006, 02:16 PM
Again, this is just what we need to survive, Left Tackle, Right Tackle, Right Guard, but the draft will not give us what we need next year. Carr will never be any good while he plays under coaches that think he's a punching bag, with-out a GOOD O line we will never be better then .500. Just think if Peyton Manning had our line, with his lack of mobility he'd be in a body cast, Folks, scape goats are great, but you need to stop chasing symptoms, are start fixing the problem, and that is our O line which was good, one year, not GOOD, just good. Next year, with Carr gone we can bad mouth the next punching bag.

GP
12-04-2006, 02:17 PM
Come on Kingh99, you mean to say that Winston did not look like a revolving door yesterday? I am a Carr fan but he was terrible I agree. The O line has almost never pass blocked successfully. I thought the guys we got from the beginning including Boselli were for their PASS blocking skills. There are several problems to fix.

Winston is too smal and no wingspan.

The d lineman was lining up fairly wide, in my estimation, and thus using his speed to make Winston commit to outside or inside...then, the guy could just chuck Winston without even breaking stride and BAM! he was past Winston really fast.

You could tell how bad it was because Carr was ducking and darting as soon as he got the snap.

The run game SAVED those guys BIG TIME. Who would have thought that Dayne would be "The Man?" THAT'S how bad Oakland is.

I mean, seriously....you think it's bad being a Texans fan? Those guys look like a pile of mushy cookies in a cup of milk out there: Soft.

You gotta' wonder HOW Al Davis can get it so painfully wrong and just do nothing about it. Weird.

Double Barrel
12-04-2006, 02:19 PM
The O-line problems are as much a problem with Carr's lack of mental nimbleness as anything. Don't tell me those guys can't protect if he's giving them something to work with. He gets mentally tongue tied and they get the grief? That excuse ended forever yesterday.

So you're saying that it's Carr's fault that the o-line is shaky at best? :um:

I'm not a Carr-homer (or -hater for that matter), but there is a reason we have been inconsistent about running the ball and have set sack records in our brief history. O-line has always been a deficiency on this team from year one.

I guess the difference between 'excuses' and 'reasons' are in the eye of the beholder.

HOU-TEX
12-04-2006, 02:19 PM
Come on Kingh99, you mean to say that Winston did not look like a revolving door yesterday? I am a Carr fan but he was terrible I agree. The O line has almost never pass blocked successfully. I thought the guys we got from the beginning including Boselli were for their PASS blocking skills. There are several problems to fix.

This is the truth. It has now been 5 years now and we have yet to improve our Oline.:hairpull: I'm praying to the football gods for Kubiak to continue to build the Oline. Until the line is built with talent and depth, Carr will continue to get a free pass from the coaching staff along with a percentage of fans.:brickwall

Runner
12-04-2006, 02:20 PM
I would not count on Spencer or Winston as being serviceable Tackles at this moment. We need bodies and competition in my opinion at the most maligned unit in our brief history.

I believe you missed the "Bookend Tackles" memo released on the third day of training camp. No worry though - it has been re-released repeatedly throughout the season. You should be able to find a copy and come up to speed.

kingh99
12-04-2006, 02:21 PM
Well with our 1st round pick we need to go with best player available that isn't a QB. As for the rest of the draft and through Free Agency I would say we have need to find 'three new starters' at:

CB - Clements is probably a pipedream but I say shoot for the moon. Sadly, I don't see any CB worthy of a Top10 draft pick.
DT - If we pick 7th or later DT Branch from BigBlue may be the way to go. We just need more depth irregardless.
FS - If we pick 10th or later S Landry from LSU may be the way to go. Very glaring need.

I may be in the minority here, but I dont think we need to completely retool our OL. It's not surprise that when Flanagan went down, our OL has gotten progressively worse. It would be nice to find some more quality depth via FA and hope our young guys continue to develop and have better luck with injuries. Another plus would be if Sherman sticks around for another year. I hope he doesnt take the rumored HC job being offered in college.

Oh, and the Texans need to stay away from drafting an early round QB. If Kolb is around in the 4th round, pick him up but we need to build our team around defense and a good running game. I think our OL and scheme in general is well suited to this and we already have two good 3rd down threats in Moulds and Johnson. We just need to get a capable veteran QB to manage the games and make plays when needed. In the meantime, our young QBs can learn about the NFL holding a clipboard and not behind center.

I think Plummer makes some sense due to his knowledge of Kubiak's system and offensive mindset. He probably isn't going to lead us to the Super Bowl but he would help us compete at a higher level from day one. I just don't want to give anything up for a QB. There are lots of QBs just busting out waiting for their chance to start. I dont think we have to overpay for one.

Moulds is on his last legs. We need the next Lee Evans opposite AJ.

Big J
12-04-2006, 02:22 PM
I highly doubt we go after a Tackle earlier than the 3rd round.

1st Round:

I am going to make the assumption we win at least one more game and a 65% chance we win 2 of them. That would put us in the 5-12 range I would assume. So that is where we could find an excellent DT or Safety and a great CB. The O-Line Wisconsin guy is for sure gone by then anyways. While it wouldnt make much sense I bet that DE Gaines I think would probably be there.

Anyway my projection is:

DT - I bet we could get Ohio State's Pitcock and he has tons of potential. Great run stuffer.

CB-Look at Denver's past 2 drafts. Loaded up on CB. I bet Kubiak isnt satisfied with the talent back there.

Safety- I know we all wanted this earlier but I bet they find a great player here. Remember unlike Casserly most GM's take the best avaliable player.

It will be nice to have the holes filled on D. Do I really think we will go all 3 defense? No. But I could wish for it.

GP
12-04-2006, 02:23 PM
So you're saying that it's Carr's fault that the o-line is shaky at best? :um:

I'm not a Carr-homer (or -hater for that matter), but there is a reason we have been inconsistent about running the ball and have set sack records in our brief history. O-line has always been a deficiency on this team from year one.

I guess the difference between 'excuses' and 'reasons' are in the eye of the beholder.

Anybody who says the o line DID ITS JOB this Sunday, in terms of pass protection, is lying.

They stunk.

And I don;t know if they ran blocked well...or if the Raiders are just THAT bad at stopping the run.

Either way, both teams had awful pass blocking yesterday. Period.

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2006, 02:30 PM
Are we talking about players we don't have .

I'll take a OT , I'll take a CB , I'll take a safety .

We'll get back Spencer , we have Sage , and we'll get back some DTs ... the new dt's are'nt playing bad though .

Texans Horror
12-04-2006, 02:31 PM
I would not count on Spencer or Winston as being serviceable Tackles at this moment. We need bodies and competition in my opinion at the most maligned unit in our brief history.

Most maligned? That's a bold statement, KT. The Texans have had some pretty maligned lines in their first 5 years.

thunderkyss
12-04-2006, 02:33 PM
You are thinking like me. The secondary gets really good really fast when the opposing QB is scared for his life. The only downside and that's only if you are a lifelong hater no matter what, is that Carr becomes serviceable in a team with a dominant defense and a running game. That's the conundrum. The fastest path to getting respectable may be to keep the guy and go for the Ravens/TB approach to winning a SB.

& that's because the Ravens & Tampa Bay have won soooo many SBs.....

I agree we need to get a bad ass DT... or another DE, & keep Weaver inside.

I'd also get another starting SAM. Greenwoods been coming on... I wanted to replace him first earlier in the year, but he's been steadily moving down on my list.

QB.... unless David learns the finer art of ball placement, & getting the ball down the field, he puts too much pressure on our offensive line, the risk/reward for blitzing him is way too high. I wouldn't straight up get rid of him, but the position would be up for competion early int he offseason....

painekiller
12-04-2006, 02:42 PM
I'd also get another starting SAM. Greenwoods been coming on... I wanted to replace him first earlier in the year, but he's been steadily moving down on my list.



Not to be picky, well ok I am being picky, Greenwood is a Will (Weakside LB) not the SAM, that is Orr, and sometimes Wong.

Between the 2, I would replace the SAM first and then the WILL.

FLYmeatwad
12-04-2006, 02:50 PM
O-Line: It needs the most help out of any position, I would love to get a guy in FA, but a couple of young guns from the draft would be fine as well.

DB: We really need a shut down corner. If we bring in a number one guy we can let Dunta go back to being a number two defender where he thrived. I'm a Dunta fan, no question about it, but unless he starts showing he can play at a higher level as a number 1, I think it might be time to bump him back down to 2.

Now the last of the three I had to debate for quite some time and I two thought processes here. Fix up the D Line ONLY if you can get an established big name player. If not then don't go to the draft and take a guy in the first round. Let them play it out and continue to gel as a unit.

If there is no huge guy to bolster the DL then fix up the Safeties. This time last year I would have said LBs because I still say that the biggest loss we've suffered is the loss of Sharper. Thankfully Meco has stepped in to fill that hole. So I think we really need to get at least one better safety, if not two.

Ole Miss Texan
12-04-2006, 02:51 PM
Wow, our first round selection could potentially be OT, RB, DT, DE, LB, FS, CB. (one might add QB and WR in there but i'm not) forget RB and DE, we'll be picking too high to warrant LB.

That leaves OT, DT, FS, and CB

Joe Thomas will be gone, is Gaither declaring?! hope so...if not Thomas who fits our scheme?

there are 5 CB's that could be 1st round picks. I bet one falls to us in the 2nd..but would they be the right fit?

DT/FS -Alan Branch or LaRon Landry/ Reggie Nelson...will we be too high for FS?

I'm starting to think Branch if we're #7. Gaither if he declares. or a trade down to anybody! pick up a 3rd instead of a 2nd and we will still be able to pick up any of these positions we're talking about picking with our 1st pick.

sorry this is very drawn out. I'm just confused and keep talking myself out of everything.

Joe Thomas, Jared Gaither, Alan Branch, Reggie Nelson, or LaRon Landry in 1st depend on where we are.

kingh99
12-04-2006, 02:53 PM
& that's because the Ravens & Tampa Bay have won soooo many SBs.....

I agree we need to get a bad ass DT... or another DE, & keep Weaver inside.

I'd also get another starting SAM. Greenwoods been coming on... I wanted to replace him first earlier in the year, but he's been steadily moving down on my list.

QB.... unless David learns the finer art of ball placement, & getting the ball down the field, he puts too much pressure on our offensive line, the risk/reward for blitzing him is way too high. I wouldn't straight up get rid of him, but the position would be up for competion early int he offseason....

They each won a SB using QBs who were never asked to carry the team. Unfortunately they were about the two least memorable super bowl winners there ever were. So if the Texans want to be known as an ugly grinder of a team, they are on schedule.

TexanFanInCC
12-04-2006, 03:21 PM
well i dont know if it is coincidence that we have tried many different offensive lineman, but the one constant on offense has been carr. is it possible that maybe carr is just not making enough plays down the field to burn defenses when they blitz?

i think three areas that need upgrading are:

1. QB
2. OL
3. CB

wild card positions to upgrade are: FS, OLB, DT, and RB

TheOgre
12-05-2006, 08:20 AM
/bump

HJam72
12-05-2006, 08:29 AM
1. FS

2. CB

3. OL

Not long ago at all, I would've had OLB in 3rd, leaving OL out of the top 3. Despite the OLB situation, give me some talent at FS and #2 CB and we got ourselves a defense again. :bananasplit:

SAMURAITEXAN
12-05-2006, 09:19 AM
I would like to see more play maker on front senven.

1. DT

2. OLB

3. Best available DB

Or

1. OLB

2. DT

3. DB

I sure hope we sign one of those FA CB this coming off season.

GO TEXANS!!

Bamaborn-Texasbred
12-05-2006, 09:23 AM
OLine

Go and get one NFL ready player and two more development type guys in the draft. Bring in one starter via FA

Safety

Get an impact guy in the draft.

CB

Go and get the best FA available.

QB

Keep Carr next year but designate him as the #3 before training camp. Draft a QB (anywhere but the first three rounds) and open the camp with no designated starter.

Dead on. However, I'm not completely satisfied with our options at running back.

Crazyhorse
12-05-2006, 09:42 AM
Everyone keeps talking about drafting more o-line help. That is fine but remember the o-line as a unit is only as good as it's weakest link and with the Texans that is not at the tackle position!!!!!!! We need help at the guard and center slots more than anything. In the Oakland game everyone wanted to jump Winston for getting beat but if you look closely at the blocking it was McKinney not making the proper read and leaving Eric to block two people. No lineman can do that consistantly in this league. And all this bull about wing span is over blown. Do you think that one inch to an inch and a half will make a big difference. That is the difference between Eric and the majority of tackles in the league. Only the "Brick" has everyone beat and he is an exception, and with that Mario abused him the entire game.
We have two solid tackles in Spencer and Winston both are young and need development but more importantly they need good guards and a center to play with.

Tailgate
12-05-2006, 10:14 AM
O-Line, O-Line, aaaand O-Line.

With how many injuries we get on the O-Line each year, coupled with the extreme lack of talent.... we will NEVER survive until this unit becomes the STRENGTH of the team.

Hervoyel
12-05-2006, 10:14 AM
Interesting question and some good answers but I'm just not convinced that 3 new starters would even get it done. I don't think I could answer this and keep it to 3.

You have two sources for players in free agency and the draft. On top of that you need different things at different spots.

In the secondary you need some leadership and a veteran presence so I sign a veteran CB or safety and I try to draft another one to groom.

In the linebacker spots you needs speed and athleticism. If we could replace one linebacker this off-season with somebody who was anywhere near DeMeco Ryans then we could live with the best of either Wong or Greenwood on the other side. That would be a solid unit.

On the defensive line you just need to add a guy to spell our already young and improving bunch. I like what I'm seeing there and I think we're going to get a lot better on that side of the ball next season when these guys come back and hit it again. Progress has been made there.

On the offensive line a rookie is just going to be one more confused 300+ pound problem until he learns to play his position at NFL speed so there you add a veteran free agent. You can also in theory add a rookie if he's highly talented but I'm talking about using our 1 on him. I mean somebody who is truly an elite player. Is that guy in this draft? I don't know. Do you add him instead of a veteran or do you do both?

Absolutely you need a RB and you want to draft that guy. Lundy isn't it, Gado isn't it, Dayne isn't it, and Taylor can't get off the practice squad. Unless Kubiak is just trying to save him for some amazing future we all don't expect then I'm thinking it's safe to assume that he isn't it either. A RB is to my mind a must and I don't care where we find him. My preference is always to draft my RB but that's just me.

Wideouts and TE's I'm happy with this year. I give them another year to improve in this system.

The QB I expect to replace this year. It's a question of whether I expect to get anything out of him at all so I try to trade him. If I can't get a single offer then I eat his salary and see if I can get Plummer to come take the starting job away from him or maybe I give Rosenfels a shot at starting over him. Regardless I draft a QB this year to sit next year and learn my offense. Whether he's sitting behind Carr, Rosenfels or Plummer I really don't care. They're just keeping the seat warm while my next QB learns the playbook and gets acclimated properly to the NFL.

So I think I want two new starters in the secondary, one new linebacker, one new starter on the offensive line (two if I can get it with one vet and one rookie), a new starting RB, and I expect to draft my future QB who won't start but who I can't get at the end of day two of the draft. He's got to be picked using a draft choice that normally might net me an immediate starter this year. That was why the Dave Ragone pick was so outrageously stupid. Casserly was wasting a 3 on a backup QB when we had no depth anywhere. That pick to this day angers me incredibly. I'm not mad at Ragone and never have been. It wasn't his fault. That was just a lousy draft pick.

Sco-tai
12-05-2006, 10:43 AM
The 3 holes I consider to be of greatest concern are :

1. FREE SAFETY - apparently the "Quarterback" of the defense....a Roy Williams-caliber FS would really make up for other defensive weaknesses.

2. Cornerback - Faggins is a serviceable Nickle-CB...but NOT a starting CB. Period.

3. OL - I really hope Spencer comes back 100%. I liked him a lot. If he isn't, then we need an LT. Regardless, Center is a concern....ah..forget it. The whole OL is pretty shaky minus a healthy SPENCER.

However, until the past few weeks, I've always felt CARR was our future. But I have to admit, some of his decisions are just frustrating. He may not be our guy, as much as I would have liked to think he was. I'm still rooting for him to be our leader...but I'm not holding my breath anymore.

dantem
12-05-2006, 12:11 PM
The O-line problems are as much a problem with Carr's lack of mental nimbleness as anything. Don't tell me those guys can't protect if he's giving them something to work with. He gets mentally tongue tied and they get the grief? That excuse ended forever yesterday.

What???

The QB is mentally causing the O-Line to miss there blocks, get knocked to the ground, get pushed into the QB????

That probably the lamest thing I've read this week.

mexican_texan
12-05-2006, 12:55 PM
1. Safety. Someone that could also play nickel back if needed. Faggins gets burned more than firewood.

2. Linebacker. Orr will be good for us next year...spotting an OLB.

3. Center. Kalil from USC.