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Yankee_In_TX
12-04-2006, 10:04 AM
They were talking about this on 610. TC in the summer:

David Carr
Jake Plummer
Sage Rosenfels


I know the FO NEVER listens to the fans about draft picks/signings (regardless of who you wanted, Houston FANS typically wanted Bush or Vince), but FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY, don't let this happen.

TexanFanInCC
12-04-2006, 10:08 AM
jake plummer makes sense, but kevin kolb would be a fan favorite!

Yankee_In_TX
12-04-2006, 10:12 AM
Plummer is horrible...!!!

I won't start a QB draft debate in this thread, but I would cry if these were our 3 QB's come summer.

Hervoyel
12-04-2006, 10:15 AM
My answer would be to trade David Carr for anything you can get for him at this point. If someone offers you a 5 and a ham sandwich you grab that ham sandwich and run with it. You just made out like a bandit and that's with or without some mayo and a slice of cheese. That's even if the bread is kind of hard.

Then you go ahead and see if Jake Plummer is interested in coming here to play for a season or two. You do not overpay this man to come play here. You appeal to his desire to get his career back on track and use the "you get to play for Kubiak again" card. You keep Sage as his backup or if Rosenfels can beat him out of the job then so be it.

Then you take Kolb in the third if you can get him there. If necessary you use a 2 but our 2 is going to so high I think that's early for Kolb. Once we get closer to the draft we'll have a better idea what he's going for. Kolb is used here as an example and not a "I must draft him no matter what" case. Other options are fine. Regardless of which young QB we pick he sits for a year. He might even sit for two though I doubt it. Second season he'll probably be ready to get his feet wet and get in there.

real
12-04-2006, 10:18 AM
My answer would be to trade David Carr for anything you can get for him at this point. If someone offers you a 5 and a ham sandwich you grab that ham sandwich and run with it. You just made out like a bandit and that's with or without some mayo and a slice of cheese. That's even if the bread is kind of hard.

Then you go ahead and see if Jake Plummer is interested in coming here to play for a season or two. You do not overpay this man to come play here. You appeal to his desire to get his career back on track and use the "you get to play for Kubiak again" card. You keep Sage as his backup or if Rosenfels can beat him out of the job then so be it.

Then you take Kolb in the third if you can get him there. If necessary you use a 2 but our 2 is going to so high I think that's early for Kolb. Once we get closer to the draft we'll have a better idea what he's going for. Kolb is used here as an example and not a "I must draft him no matter what" case. Other options are fine. Regardless of which young QB we pick he sits for a year. He might even sit for two though I doubt it. Second season he'll probably be ready to get his feet wet and get in there.

dito.

Malloy
12-04-2006, 10:19 AM
Crazy Herv, but that's EXACTLY how I would like it to turn out.

Apart from the sandwich thingie, I'm vegetarian, but I would take a piece of dry toast :)

Second Honeymoon
12-04-2006, 10:21 AM
Hervoyel is on point on the current embarassment at QB. We need to get rid of our horrible QB and look to the future.

1. Trade/Cut/Nuke David Carr
2. Pickup Jake Plummer
3. Draft Kevin Kolb or another later round QB.

As long as we dont spend our 1st round draft pick on QB, I am fine with whatever they do to look to the future. I think Kolb makes some sense for a number of reasons, none of which are that he could come in and start immediately.

I am very happy that the Carr Homers have gone into permanent hiding after yesterdays horrific performance by Carr. That just means fewer stupid excuses and less denial of the truth. Thank God the defense has really turned the corner over the past few months and now we are starting to get turnovers and pressure the QB.

-5 Yards Passing by Carr = Homer Be Gone Spray

Carr is the worst QB in the history of Houston professional football.

doug from the woodlands

Double Barrel
12-04-2006, 10:22 AM
They were talking about this on 610. TC in the summer:

David Carr
Jake Plummer
Sage Rosenfels


:gun:

I could live with Herv's above scenario, though. If we draft a QB - but don't play him immediately! - and use a journeyman QB in the meantime, then I see progress (especially if our defense continues to improve with the anchors we've got to build upon).

whiskeyrbl
12-04-2006, 10:23 AM
Well who would take Carr? Oakland? That would be perfect,a straight up trade for lets say Huff or another one of their DB's. Or a couple of draft picks.
:phone:

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
12-04-2006, 10:24 AM
Sorry to sound stupid, but who in the heck is Kolb? I do my best to keep up with college ball and for the life of me I cant' place this kids name with a team.

real
12-04-2006, 10:25 AM
Well who would take Carr? Oakland? That would be perfect,a straight up trade for lets say Huff or another one of their DB's. Or a couple of draft picks.
:phone:

LOL...

No way in he!! would Oakland trade Huff for Carr....


At this point who ever would want Carr would probably be looking to fill a back up role....

whiskeyrbl
12-04-2006, 10:26 AM
University of Houston, The C-USA Player of the year. I think he had like 27 TD's and 3 INTS.

real
12-04-2006, 10:26 AM
Sorry to sound stupid, but who in the heck is Kolb? I do my best to keep up with college ball and for the life of me I cant' place this kids name with a team.


•2006 C-USA Preseason Player-of-the-Year (The Sporting News)
•2005 Third Team All-Conference USA
•2003 C-USA Freshman-of-the-Year
•2003 Third Team All-Conference USA
•2003 C-USA All-Freshman Team
• 2003 The Sporting News, Third-Team, Freshman All-America
• 2003 Rivals.com Honorable Mention, All-America
• 2003 Freshman of the Year, CollegeFootballNews.com
•C-USA Co-Offensive Player-of-the-Week (Oct. 27, 2003) •C-USA Offensive Player-of-the-Week (Sept. 22, 2003)

http://uhcougars.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/kolb_kevin00.html

whiskeyrbl
12-04-2006, 10:27 AM
LOL...

No way in he!! would Oakland trade Huff for Carr....


At this point who ever would want Carr would probably be looking to fill a back up role....

Why do you say no way in he!!. Look at it from a $ standpoint. They have 3 former 1st RD picks in their secondary,Carr a former #1 pick. Supposedly McNair said most of the coaches asked last year before they gave Carr his Extension said he could be a winner in the NFL.Was Oakland one of these? Maybe. Now one of our most glaring needs is DB's, Oakland is Qb. Now Carr also is from No. Cal. Perfect scenario? As far as our QB needs I think people are ready to lynch Carr whether or not all the bad plays are his fault or not. So why not try this ,get Plummer to come in and move the chains for a year and draft a QB,to prep for 2008. If you have a better thought please tell me. This is just a suggestion, for lack of a better one.

TexanFanInCC
12-04-2006, 10:28 AM
Sorry to sound stupid, but who in the heck is Kolb? I do my best to keep up with college ball and for the life of me I cant' place this kids name with a team.

university of houston QB. he is from stephenville...or thats where he played in high school. hes a texas boy...making him a true TEXAN! :texflag:

Malloy
12-04-2006, 10:30 AM
Well who would take Carr? Oakland? That would be perfect,a straight up trade for lets say Huff or another one of their DB's. Or a couple of draft picks.
:phone:

I smell Miami :)

Yankee_In_TX
12-04-2006, 10:30 AM
university of houston QB. he is from stephenville...or thats where he played in high school. hes a texas boy...making him a true TEXAN! :texflag:

And to risk being flamed, I don't think he's going to be more than average, if that, in the NFL. Everyone on here seems to love him. If it were another positiong, I'd say give him the shot, but not for QB.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
12-04-2006, 10:31 AM
Thanks for the info.

Malloy
12-04-2006, 10:32 AM
And to risk being flamed, I don't think he's going to be more than average, if that, in the NFL. Everyone on here seems to love him. If it were another positiong, I'd say give him the shot, but not for QB.

To be honest I'm not too hooked on high-profine QB's. I want one what's stable and consistant, he does not have to be a superstar.

coachdent
12-04-2006, 10:33 AM
Sorry to sound stupid, but who in the heck is Kolb? I do my best to keep up with college ball and for the life of me I cant' place this kids name with a team.

Kolb is the starting QB for the University of Houston. Plays in a spread offensive system, similar to what Carr ran in college.

Some folks are very negative about spread offense QBs because a lot of them have not translated into Canton QBs in pros. David Klingler was a guy, all University of Florida QBs...etc.

I haven't seen enough of the U of H to say yeah or nay, but what I have seen is pretty good stuff and a third round pick would be appropriate for the Texans and Kolb. I don't think you go #2 or #1 with a QB. We have too many other pressing needs. DB & RB are two areas where we need playmakers as well as the offensive line. Too many variables at this point to predict. We could finish as high as 6-10 and as low as 4-12, so that makes a huge difference in where we pick and who will be available. We're definitely in a best available mode right now!

Texan Asylum
12-04-2006, 10:49 AM
I'm with Herv as well, only you can keep the ham. Bring in Plummer, we'll get immediate bang for our buck since he knows Kubiaks system and Kubiak knows his weaknesses. Get a young hotshot QB for the future, but don't throw him to the wolves, give him an opportunity to succeed and grow with the system. There are teams that'll snatch Carr up thinking they can make him work in their systems.

Wins all around for everyone involved.

TheOgre
12-04-2006, 10:54 AM
This team has about 8 huge needs (QB, RB, LT, C, CB, FS, OLB, OLB) out of the 22 starters. One offseason cannot fill all 8 needs satisfactorily. I hope we can add someone on the O-line, in the secondary, and either a new QB or RB to the mix.

eriadoc
12-04-2006, 11:21 AM
I don't want to see Plummer here. I'm not tied to the "get rid of Carr at all costs" mentality, so I am sure that has something to do with it. I wouldn't mind getting rid of Carr, but I want a real upgrade. The guy I'd really like to see is Matt Schaub. He's sat on the bench in ATL and developed on someone else's dime, he's young, and he's talented. Draft a QB (maybe Kolb) as well. That leaves options with open competition. If both QBs turn out to be very good, then we end up in a situation like the Chargers with Brees/Rivers. There are worse things in life.

Alternately, keep Carr at the helm next year while a rookie QB learns the offense.

kingh99
12-04-2006, 11:30 AM
I don't want to see Plummer here. I'm not tied to the "get rid of Carr at all costs" mentality, so I am sure that has something to do with it. I wouldn't mind getting rid of Carr, but I want a real upgrade. The guy I'd really like to see is Matt Schaub. He's sat on the bench in ATL and developed on someone else's dime, he's young, and he's talented. Draft a QB (maybe Kolb) as well. That leaves options with open competition. If both QBs turn out to be very good, then we end up in a situation like the Chargers with Brees/Rivers. There are worse things in life.

Alternately, keep Carr at the helm next year while a rookie QB learns the offense.

Get Plummer here and draft the next guy. Carr's time is over. I aint paying to watch him play anymore. I am not in the minority.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
12-04-2006, 11:43 AM
I don't want to see Plummer here. I'm not tied to the "get rid of Carr at all costs" mentality, so I am sure that has something to do with it. I wouldn't mind getting rid of Carr, but I want a real upgrade. The guy I'd really like to see is Matt Schaub. He's sat on the bench in ATL and developed on someone else's dime, he's young, and he's talented. Draft a QB (maybe Kolb) as well. That leaves options with open competition. If both QBs turn out to be very good, then we end up in a situation like the Chargers with Brees/Rivers. There are worse things in life.

Alternately, keep Carr at the helm next year while a rookie QB learns the offense.

Atl. had several teams offering the house for Schaub eather last year or the year before and thay would not let him go. Alt. knows with M. Vicks style of play thay have to keep a starting QB as there backup. We would have to give up a 1st or 2nd or both plus players to even tempt Alt. to give up Schaub.

Tayton
12-04-2006, 11:52 AM
I've been a Carr supporter but it is getting pretty old. Alot of people around the country think he is pretty good and has had a terrible line. If Carr tuns out to be even average he helps some other teams. I truly think he may have trade value to Chicago. Carr in Chicago right now probably has them in the Superbowl.

aj.
12-04-2006, 12:01 PM
Carr in Chicago right now probably has them in the Superbowl.

lol

real
12-04-2006, 12:02 PM
Carr in Chicago right now probably has them in the Superbowl.

:tearup:

Double Barrel
12-04-2006, 12:07 PM
I've been a Carr supporter but it is getting pretty old. Alot of people around the country think he is pretty good and has had a terrible line. If Carr tuns out to be even average he helps some other teams. I truly think he may have trade value to Chicago. Carr in Chicago right now probably has them in the Superbowl.

As Trent Dilfer comparisons go, this is actually a plausible scenario. They've got a defense that can win games by themselves (and have!). They need a QB that won't lose games for them....oh wait... :shades:

4Texans
12-04-2006, 12:10 PM
I can see the Texans having Kolb in their sights on draft day, but not in the early rounds.

I use to really like Jake Plummer, but I'm not so sure about him anymore. Bill Walsh use to think Plummer could be the next Joe Montana if he could have coached him.

OzzO
12-04-2006, 12:13 PM
Agree with the other above, I can see 3 ways that may keep the fans happy, or at least tuned in with interest next year:

1. Carr get traded, bring in a veteran QB for a temp. stay and draft a QB for Kubiak to mold at least half a season if not a full one.

2. Carr stays (no offers to trade) for a while longer, draft a QB for Kubiak to mold as above and possibly light a fire under Carr.

3. Carr stays, Sage stays, we draft unbelievable o-line additions and while the QB's don't apparently have "it" to lead the team to a win, they won't lead them to a loss either.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
12-04-2006, 12:19 PM
This team has about 8 huge needs (QB, RB, LT, C, CB, FS, OLB, OLB) out of the 22 starters. One offseason cannot fill all 8 needs satisfactorily. I hope we can add someone on the O-line, in the secondary, and either a new QB or RB to the mix.

Don't mean to make you mad but IMO I think your very wrong in this statement. Pick ups in free agency could change things on this team real fast. Plummer at QB(I'm not a Plummer fan), Clements at CB, Briggs at OLB, and right now there is a lot of talk on local sports radio the the redskins may cut A Archuleta at safety at the end of the season because he is not fitting into their sys. also his contract has loopoles in it that let him go costs the team 3 mil. but does not affect their cap space.

Thats four of your hole filled with replacement Vets. Now I'm not even close to being a Salary Cap know-it-all, but from the sound of thing on the MB Clements and Briggs would be the high dollar pick-ups. Plummer really dont know after Cutlers start last night Dev. may deside to keep him around. Archuleta is purley guess work at this time but who knows.

Now the Draft with your seniero in mind that leaves RB,LT,C, and OLB. Depanding on WHERE we pick could make all the difference in the world. Pick in the top five and we need to trade down and get as many warm bodys as we can. Correct me if I'm wrong here but you have a better chance of getting more latter round picks if you have a top 5 than if you have say a 8-15 pick correct? If we have a 6-10 pick take the best LT on the board and go from there.

JMHO willing to dabate this but eight hole is not to much to over come in the age of Free-Agency Mr. Mcnair just need to be ready to spend some money and I don't think he has a problem with that at this point in time. Look at what he gave DC.

Seρor Stan
12-04-2006, 12:44 PM
If someone offers you a 5 and a ham sandwich you grab that ham sandwich and run with it.


NOOOOOOOOO!!!

sincerely

Mama Cass

Vinny
12-04-2006, 12:51 PM
Don't mean to make you mad but IMO I think your very wrong in this statement. Pick ups in free agency could change things on this team real fast. Plummer at QB(I'm not a Plummer fan), Clements at CB, Briggs at OLB, and right now there is a lot of talk on local sports radio the the redskins may cut A Archuleta at safety at the end of the season because he is not fitting into their sys. also his contract has loopoles in it that let him go costs the team 3 mil. but does not affect their cap space.


great moves

signed,
John Madden football

vtech9
12-04-2006, 01:03 PM
just an FYI...

QB Quinton Porter was signed to the active roster.

Make your own conclusions on what it means.

CoogBull
12-04-2006, 01:09 PM
As a Houston Cougar I second the Kolb idea. He would be a legit early second round pick. He will still be there at that point. He signed with UH after finding out Briles would coach there. He was going to sign with Ok. St. if I recall correctly.

The kid has a lot of pocket presence, legs like a jackrabbit, and is a born leader. Can we say anything like that about Carr? The only real problem with Kolb is keeping his weight under control. This season he came into training camp lighter than he normally does and it has shown in his performance.

I have been a Carr defender for years but yesterday was the last straw.

We need to trade him for what we can get. It is the best thing to do for both parties. Let Carr pursue his destiny elsewhere and let the Texans start fresh.

I think Kolb could be a Rothlesberger style QB. I have watched him since he arrived at UH and he is durable and smart.

Call me a heretic, but I would also try to trade away AJ. I have never had the regard for him that others have. He seems unable to make the big play when it is needed and drops a lot of passes.

Better to let him go for some draft picks. If you are going to rebuild it is better to get as many picks as you can. I'm sure we could get a first round pick for him.

Double Barrel
12-04-2006, 01:17 PM
great moves

signed,
John Madden football

NOOOOOOOOO!!!

sincerely

Mama Cass

lol: Classic replies, guys! We need more levity in the forum these days.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
12-04-2006, 01:18 PM
great moves

signed,
John Madden football

I dont play Madden football. These are just examples of how to fix existing problems on this football team with Free-Agency. I did say I'm not a Salary-Cap Guru so I dont have a clue if this could be done finically. These are avenues the club will use and I just disagreed with Ogre on the fact we had to much to fix.

Specnatz
12-04-2006, 01:25 PM
I do not understand how Carr haters could even want Jake "the mistake", you would be complaining by week three after he throws a few Ints.

I am completely at a loss for the reasoning of liking Jake. :brickwall

thunderkyss
12-04-2006, 01:32 PM
This is going to sound strange coming from me........ most people think I'm a Carr Hater, or that I speak out of both sides....

I don't like Carr, I pick on him a lot....... but I don't think the smart move would be to get rid of him right now. We just gave him a lot of money, and already have a lot of dead money on next years roster.

to fix our Carr situation, we let him play through whatever troubles he is having the rest of this year. reading defenses, reading progressions, ball placement, turning the right way to hand the ball off....

come OTAs....... make sure he knows competition for the starting QB spot is open. we've got Bradely, Sage, and Quinton..... we may even bring in Charlie Batch, or Joey Harrington..... & we'll carry three QBs on next years roster. If Carr isn't good enough to be the #2 QB on that list(he may very well be the #1) then we say goodbye. I know we'll still have the dead money issues, but if he can't honestly cut it as the #2 guy on that list, then the dead money is a non issue....

Texans34Life
12-04-2006, 02:00 PM
I'm guessing we shouldn't give Sage a chance at this?

Runner
12-04-2006, 02:01 PM
just an FYI...

QB Quinton Porter was signed to the active roster.

Make your own conclusions on what it means.

My conclusions:

1) It has been risky having only two QBs on the active roster. As soon as Sage got hurt we had no experienced depth familiar with our system on the roster.

2) This was a good pre-emptive move. Kubiak must have come to grips with the fact that people on the practice squad aren't protected at all. Someone else could have signed Porter and the Texans would have had no recourse and absolutely no depth. I'm surprised no one has swiped Taylor from us yet.

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2006, 02:08 PM
Carr should'nt be in the mix for 2007 . The minute he goes the start of the new Texans begins ... we know what the old Texans could do . Sage starts out as the starter , you keep the guys you have to compete and draft someone to groom .

NEROtheZERO
12-04-2006, 02:14 PM
You can count me in with the Carr supporters prior to the Oakland game who have now given up on him.

At the beginning of the season I was ardent about waiting it out and seeing how Carr fit into Kubiak's system. I called the Tennessee game an aberation and thought Carr responded well to being sat. Well, he outdid his Tennessee game yesterday in Oakland. Not only did he have three fumbles but he went for negative passing yards. I know the o-line is bad, but so is Carr. I simply cannot support the guy anymore.

I like Herv's idea of signing Plummer and drafting and developing a QB. Plummer is familiar with Kubiak's system and would be a great mentor to a young QB.

Would trading Carr have an impact on the salary cap?

FLYmeatwad
12-04-2006, 02:38 PM
You can count me in as one of the Carr supporters, still. Is he the long term solution, no. Is he our best option right now? Certainly. Sure it might do us some good to get a new face in there, Jake Plummer maybe, but if we draft a QB will that change anything? Just look how he reacted to the who Cutler situation. I'm sure he'd be thrilled to come play for Kubiak, knowing that he's only there to temporarily groom a new QB to take his place in the next season or so.

There's four more games left in the season, let's see how Carr finishes up. I won't mind drafting a new QB that's fine, but if we let Carr go there's only one other option we have. Bring in a career back up to groom the new guy. If we bring in a starter for the year there's no promise that he will be happy or will groom the new QB. If we hold on to Carr and let him groom the guy then we can just cut Carr for "financial reasons" once he's served his purpose.

NEROtheZERO
12-04-2006, 02:59 PM
You can count me in as one of the Carr supporters, still. Is he the long term solution, no. Is he our best option right now? Certainly. Sure it might do us some good to get a new face in there, Jake Plummer maybe, but if we draft a QB will that change anything? Just look how he reacted to the who Cutler situation. I'm sure he'd be thrilled to come play for Kubiak, knowing that he's only there to temporarily groom a new QB to take his place in the next season or so.

There's four more games left in the season, let's see how Carr finishes up. I won't mind drafting a new QB that's fine, but if we let Carr go there's only one other option we have. Bring in a career back up to groom the new guy. If we bring in a starter for the year there's no promise that he will be happy or will groom the new QB. If we hold on to Carr and let him groom the guy then we can just cut Carr for "financial reasons" once he's served his purpose.

Well, obviously the new QB would be well aware of his role being brought into this team. There are guys willing to do that, Kurt Warner did it for Arizona this year.

FLYmeatwad
12-04-2006, 03:01 PM
Yeah, this year he did. Kurt came in to Arizona hoping to revive his career though by earning a new starting job. I don't know of very many QBs who would be happy knowing that they are coming in for a year to groom a new QB and that they'll be out of a job the next year.

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2006, 03:09 PM
Staying with Carr reminds me of going fishing and after 2 hours not getting a bite . You think about changing your bait but decide nah I'll just keep using what I got .

kingh99
12-04-2006, 03:12 PM
Staying with Carr reminds me of going fishing and after 2 hours not getting a bite . You think about changing your bait but decide nah I'll just keep using what I got .

Fishing on credit's fine if you want to take a nap. Problem is, when you wake up, your line's hung up and you lose everything. No, I don't think Dan Rather is scared of me taking his Dog sits on a stump folksiness crown but hey, I tried.

thunderkyss
12-04-2006, 04:53 PM
Plummer is no solution. That guy you saw in last years AFC Championship game will continue to creep up in the most inoportune times. I understand he may very well be the "fast track" to winning, but I firmly believe if we start taking shortcuts, we'll start down a spirally path that we won't be able to get out of.

We'd be better off, Starting Sage or VanPelt, and letting David watch for a year or two.

I know it doesn't make sense to pay him $8 mil/year to sit on the bench, but if we draft a 1st round QB, that's basically what we'll be doing anyway. I personally don't care for any of the QBs coming out this year.... not Brady Quinn, or Troy Smith... not after passing on Young, Lienart, & Cutler.....

We'd be better off, starting Sage, sitting Carr, and grooming Porter. If Sage gets hurt, Carr gets one more chance. If he blows, then hell, we'd have done everything humanly possible to be fair to the kid. We'll have closure, and we can move on.

Hervoyel
12-04-2006, 05:08 PM
Nobody with any sense is suggesting Plummer as a solution. He's being mostly suggested as a potential stop-gap until a solution is drafted and ready. Basically he's better than Carr and doesn't carry 5 years worth of collected fan hatred and frustration around with him everywhere he goes and if he doesn't perform well then he's sent packing in a year or two to make room on the field for the new guy the fans will have all been calling for.

I can see where you might think Sage could be that guy but I am positive that Plummer could do it. I would personally try and get whatever value I could for Carr now (4th rounder? fine. 5th? If it was all that was offered I'd take it) and then let Plummer and Rosenfels battle it out to see who starts for us. If Sage beat him out of the job then I'd start him.

Nighthawk
12-04-2006, 05:10 PM
My answer would be to trade David Carr for anything you can get for him at this point. If someone offers you a 5 and a ham sandwich you grab that ham sandwich and run with it. You just made out like a bandit and that's with or without some mayo and a slice of cheese. That's even if the bread is kind of hard.

Then you go ahead and see if Jake Plummer is interested in coming here to play for a season or two. You do not overpay this man to come play here. You appeal to his desire to get his career back on track and use the "you get to play for Kubiak again" card. You keep Sage as his backup or if Rosenfels can beat him out of the job then so be it.

Then you take Kolb in the third if you can get him there. If necessary you use a 2 but our 2 is going to so high I think that's early for Kolb. Once we get closer to the draft we'll have a better idea what he's going for. Kolb is used here as an example and not a "I must draft him no matter what" case. Other options are fine. Regardless of which young QB we pick he sits for a year. He might even sit for two though I doubt it. Second season he'll probably be ready to get his feet wet and get in there.

The voice of reason. Count me in.

real
12-04-2006, 05:14 PM
If I were the Kubes I'd try to trade Carr when the season is over, as Herv has mentioned....

Trade him while the rest of the leauge thinks he can still be good if he had a good line and all that other mumbo jumbo...

Sco-tai
12-04-2006, 05:19 PM
Right now, they have KOLB going late 3rd - early 4th round (where Chris Simms went). He's ranked 4th of all College QB's for the draft...and that is BEFORE his appearance at the upcoming LIBERTY BOWL and SENIOR BOWL. And similar to JAY CUTLER, I believe KOLB's draft stock will SKYROCKET!

For anyone who has watched him this year, ESPECIALLY in big games like this past FRIDAY when he lead U OF H to the conference championship...the guy is a winner, a leader and will DEFINITELY be a starter in the NFL.

We'll be lucky to get him with our 2nd round pick, imo.

:phone:

ALSO....someone to watch for in the 2008 draft is going to be ANTHONY ALRIDGE. He was a WR that was moved to RB this year and has been ON FIRE! (notice...he only started 4 games. He only had 200+ yards 4 games ago.....so has gained 700+ yards in 4 games!!!

RUSHING GP-GS Att Gain Loss Net Avg TD Long Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Alridge, Anthony 13-4 85 910 6 904 10.6 8 87 69.5


That's right.....he AVERAGES 10.6 a run! Numerous sports writers have recently compared him to some player you might have heard of named REGGIE BUSH....but Anthony prefers to be compared to WARRICK DUNN. Not sure why, but whatever.:cowboy1:

dantem
12-04-2006, 05:20 PM
Hervoyel is on point on the current embarassment at QB. We need to get rid of our horrible QB and look to the future.

1. Trade/Cut/Nuke David Carr
2. Pickup Jake Plummer
3. Draft Kevin Kolb or another later round QB.

As long as we dont spend our 1st round draft pick on QB, I am fine with whatever they do to look to the future. I think Kolb makes some sense for a number of reasons, none of which are that he could come in and start immediately.

I am very happy that the Carr Homers have gone into permanent hiding after yesterdays horrific performance by Carr. That just means fewer stupid excuses and less denial of the truth. Thank God the defense has really turned the corner over the past few months and now we are starting to get turnovers and pressure the QB.

-5 Yards Passing by Carr = Homer Be Gone Spray

Carr is the worst QB in the history of Houston professional football.

doug from the woodlands

Then watch whichever one starts next year as they get destroyed by every defense in the league because we did not improve the most important part of the team, The O-Line. We would be better off replacing the other 8-10 holes on this team than the QB.

Blaming Carr is a cop out that homers use to avoid reality... Most of this team is worse than average, If we had the best QB in the league, he would look stupid every week with this O-line.

dantem
12-04-2006, 05:32 PM
Carr is the worst QB in the history of Houston professional football.

doug from the woodlands

you have a pretty short memory...

do the initials G.N. ring a bell.

OzzO
12-04-2006, 06:47 PM
just an FYI...

QB Quinton Porter was signed to the active roster.

Make your own conclusions on what it means.

Kubiak mentioned on the show Carr is still first and he's gonna see Van Pelt and "Q" (as Kubiak called him) in practice and see who should take the #2 spot and other #3.

edo783
12-04-2006, 07:06 PM
great moves

signed,
John Madden football

Yup, that nasty little thing called cap management seems to escape some folks.

Grid
12-04-2006, 07:09 PM
IMO.. draft a top QB next year.. keep carr and let him battle it out with the Rookie. Carr SHOULD win the starting spot.. and he will play hard to keep it.

In the end I think we will be able to trade him for a mid round pick.. maybe even better than that if we are lucky.. and we will have an unblemished, talented rookie QB being tutored under Gary Kubiak.

Texanator14
12-04-2006, 07:32 PM
Enough of this Kolb talk. If we're going to go quarterback in the draft I say Drew Stanton is the guy. He's running the show now at Michigan state with no help. Plus he has better intangibles than most of the quarterbacks in the draft.

Texans Pride
12-04-2006, 07:35 PM
My answer would be to trade David Carr for anything you can get for him at this point. If someone offers you a 5 and a ham sandwich you grab that ham sandwich and run with it. You just made out like a bandit and that's with or without some mayo and a slice of cheese. That's even if the bread is kind of hard.

Then you go ahead and see if Jake Plummer is interested in coming here to play for a season or two. You do not overpay this man to come play here. You appeal to his desire to get his career back on track and use the "you get to play for Kubiak again" card. You keep Sage as his backup or if Rosenfels can beat him out of the job then so be it.

Then you take Kolb in the third if you can get him there. If necessary you use a 2 but our 2 is going to so high I think that's early for Kolb. Once we get closer to the draft we'll have a better idea what he's going for. Kolb is used here as an example and not a "I must draft him no matter what" case. Other options are fine. Regardless of which young QB we pick he sits for a year. He might even sit for two though I doubt it. Second season he'll probably be ready to get his feet wet and get in there.


Darn it. . . You never leave anything for anyone else to say :)

So yes, I agree with this point.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
12-04-2006, 09:59 PM
Yup, that nasty little thing called cap management seems to escape some folks.

READ BOTH MY POST in this thread before you respond to someone elses responce.

Hervoyel
12-04-2006, 10:33 PM
Then watch whichever one starts next year as they get destroyed by every defense in the league because we did not improve the most important part of the team, The O-Line. We would be better off replacing the other 8-10 holes on this team than the QB.

Blaming Carr is a cop out that homers use to avoid reality... Most of this team is worse than average, If we had the best QB in the league, he would look stupid every week with this O-line.

You keep banging that O-Line drum and I'm not trying to say that our offensive line is good to go but man, you just can't keep adding new starters every single year and expect anything to come from it. Start everything from a blank slate right this second and consider this. Our offensive line at the start of the season was as follows:

Spencer-Pitts-Flanagan-Weary-Weigert

Now we know they expected Spencer to be the starter at LT but he's going to be a rookie again next year. A rookie with a great head start on the playbook but still he'll have squat for experience on the line and that's assuming he's going to be able to come back at all.

Pitts isn't going anywhere. He's going to be the starting LG next season. This is where his on-again/off-again move to LG finally stops. He's not going back to LT so everyone can forget about that.

Flanagan will be our starting C again. He'll come back from his injury and play another 8-10 games before we're watching Drew Hodgdon again because he can't stay healthy but he was brought in by this staff to give us a true (albeit gimpy) center and he'll start.

Weary will also get a second year to improve as a starter. Just like Pitts he's going to be back.

Finally Weigert is gone and Winston will come into camp as the starting RT. He'll have half a season (give or take) under his belt and look a lot better for it.

You want to draft offensive linemen but rookies (outside of our 1) aren't going to make a dent in that mess. Most anyone you take outside of round one is going to sit on the bench where they can offer encouraging words to the QB when he comes over to get his shoulder popped back in it's socket.

I'm good with an offensive lineman in the first round but on most lines you have some established starters that you can add "a" rookie offensive lineman to. Sometimes you can start a couple of them. Our "established starter" is Chester Pitts and he's played one season at that spot in this offense and he's got a tackle to his left that he's played 10 games next to? He'll be replaced by another tackle he's played 2 games next to? On his right is a center that he's played 9 games with or maybe it will be the backup (Hodgdon) that he played the other 7 games with.

There's no consistency in this line. A flood of new parts every off-season ends up making lines lousy year after year. Next year the line will look a lot like the Texans 2003 line in that they'll show marked improvement with minimal tinkering. That's because they'll have some time together. Not as much as they should because of the injuries but Winston will be better than this year as will Weary and Pitts. Sadly Spencer will be behind and we may need to replace him anyway if he can't return. A new LT might be a necessity. Get the best one and watch the sacks.

Whoever we start is going to pounded some. You say we have 8-10 holes that need filling before the QB and I disagree. QB is one we can fill late first day or early second. drafting a QB almost requires that we sit him for a while so no need to worry about getting him killed. We can't fix more than one spot on the line next year in the draft. We can do more in free agency than in the draft but regardless it doesn't affect our ability to go get a QB.

Hervoyel
12-04-2006, 10:55 PM
you have a pretty short memory...

do the initials G.N. ring a bell.


His body wasn't tough enough for the sport at this level but otherwise he compares to David Carr very favorably considering the limited playing time he saw.

I see by your age you're a year older than I am so I assume you watched Gifford Nielsen play. I know I did. He wasn't a great QB but he had better pocket presence than David Carr. That's not even close.

Carr has the better tools but if Nielsen had been given the same physical gifts he'd be the better QB IMO.

Runner
12-04-2006, 11:06 PM
1) Flanagan will be our starting C again. He'll come back from his injury and play another 8-10 games before we're watching Drew Hodgdon again because he can't stay healthy but he was brought in by this staff to give us a true (albeit gimpy) center and he'll start.

2) There's no consistency in this line. A flood of new parts every off-season ends up making lines lousy year after year. Next year the line will look a lot like the Texans 2003 line in that they'll show marked improvement with minimal tinkering. That's because they'll have some time together. Not as much as they should because of the injuries but Winston will be better than this year as will Weary and Pitts. Sadly Spencer will be behind and we may need to replace him anyway if he can't return. A new LT might be a necessity. Get the best one and watch the sacks.



1) Do you think Flanagan wants to return to the Texans? Snapping to Favre in the good years is different from snapping to Carr. He may have learned something this year.

2) I just have to add (again). There's no consistency to this line - coach's decision. Coaches just have to tinker and can't give players time to develop (with one exception on the Texans, of course).

Hervoyel
12-05-2006, 09:32 AM
He's getting paid and he's only working half a season. I have no doubt he'll come back and if he doesn't then the scenario isn't really all that different. Suddenly we have a real need at C and so they pick through the available free agents, hopefully find one they like, and sign him. As buggy as the rest of the line and quarterback already are I seriously doubt they draft a center and then make him the starter. They'll pick too high to select one that high in the first round though there's always a trade down chance. They will want a veteran to try and calm Carr down. Since the day Steve McKinney first came into town the Texans have been trying to hook him up with a veteran lineman to help his confidence and build some kind of rapport with. that will continue (and continue to be an excercise in futility).

I just don't see them making wholesale changes to the offensive line this off-season. I don't see it happening. Some change yes but we don't need to pass on trying to get a QB because we need 4 linemen. That isn't going to happen. At least not to four starters.

thunderkyss
12-05-2006, 12:13 PM
He's getting paid and he's only working half a season. I have no doubt he'll come back and if he doesn't then the scenario isn't really all that different. Suddenly we have a real need at C and so they pick through the available free agents, hopefully find one they like, and sign him. As buggy as the rest of the line and quarterback already are I seriously doubt they draft a center and then make him the starter. They'll pick too high to select one that high in the first round though there's always a trade down chance. They will want a veteran to try and calm Carr down. Since the day Steve McKinney first came into town the Texans have been trying to hook him up with a veteran lineman to help his confidence and build some kind of rapport with. that will continue (and continue to be an excercise in futility).

I just don't see them making wholesale changes to the offensive line this off-season. I don't see it happening. Some change yes but we don't need to pass on trying to get a QB because we need 4 linemen. That isn't going to happen. At least not to four starters.


Hogdon is our only real hope at Center. We've got to pray that Hogden excells in the next 4 weeks, we've got to pray that all our guys excell in the next four weeks. with the addition of Spencer, what we see on the line could be our offensive unit for the next 3 or 4 years..... Weary, not McKinney......... I still see us looking to get another Center, Guard, and LTs in the offseason. most likely FA, but maybe in the draft.... not on the first day though.... unless Hogden can't handle it that is.

titan hater
12-05-2006, 12:35 PM
Right now, they have KOLB going late 3rd - early 4th round (where Chris Simms went). He's ranked 4th of all College QB's for the draft...and that is BEFORE his appearance at the upcoming LIBERTY BOWL and SENIOR BOWL. And similar to JAY CUTLER, I believe KOLB's draft stock will SKYROCKET!

For anyone who has watched him this year, ESPECIALLY in big games like this past FRIDAY when he lead U OF H to the conference championship...the guy is a winner, a leader and will DEFINITELY be a starter in the NFL.

We'll be lucky to get him with our 2nd round pick, imo.

:phone:

ALSO....someone to watch for in the 2008 draft is going to be ANTHONY ALRIDGE. He was a WR that was moved to RB this year and has been ON FIRE! (notice...he only started 4 games. He only had 200+ yards 4 games ago.....so has gained 700+ yards in 4 games!!!

RUSHING GP-GS Att Gain Loss Net Avg TD Long Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Alridge, Anthony 13-4 85 910 6 904 10.6 8 87 69.5


That's right.....he AVERAGES 10.6 a run! Numerous sports writers have recently compared him to some player you might have heard of named REGGIE BUSH....but Anthony prefers to be compared to WARRICK DUNN. Not sure why, but whatever.:cowboy1:

Tony Hollings, RB, Georgia Tech Hollings' claim to fame is that he led the nation in rushing through four games. AA reminds me of Hollings...