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CowboysTexansFan
12-03-2006, 10:41 PM
In the ABC13 Texans' wrap, Bob Allen said over the last four years, he's given Carr the benefit of the doubt:

- poor coaching
- poor offensive line
- poor supporting cast, etc.

But now, after talking to people within the organization, he said it was possible the organization would seriously consider making a change at QB during the offseason.

I share that sentiment. I've been a supporter of Carr since the beginning, but I now have serious reservations about him. If he doesn't turn it around in these last 4 games, it may be curtains for him here in Houston.

utahmark
12-03-2006, 10:50 PM
its tough to argue with them if they do make a change. i still would like to see carr behind a good o-line. not sure if were gonna see it here.

one thing is for sure. he isnt a qb who can make due without a good o-line. so if we dont drastically improve the oline this offseason i too would rather not see carr struggling behind a subparr oline next year.

this off season either greatly improve oline or get rid of carr. anything else is foolish.

Reddevil63
12-03-2006, 10:50 PM
I really like Carr, I wanted him to succeed very badly. However, if he does make it in the NFL, it wont be in Houston. I still think he could have been great had it not been for the previous coaching staff and historically bad o-line. That being said, its time to move on. He has lost the fans, and probably his teamates because of his tentativeness in the pocket and inability to spread the field.

TexasJedi
12-03-2006, 10:56 PM
I am getting sick of Bob Allen. He is not professional when it comes to the Texans. He gets t.o.'d at the Texans and acts like a fan when questioning someone. Like this little Carr comment the first poster is referring to. I understand he covers the team every week, and gets tired of them losing, but he is supposed to at least act like a journalist.

Ibar_Harry
12-03-2006, 11:01 PM
Best thing that could happen to Carr. He has been beat to death and he has been nothing but a company man. That 1st shot he took today was hard and unubstructed. He still got right back up. I said long before the beginning of the season that it was time for him to move on and I still think that is true. Too many things have happened to him in Houston for him to ever be successful.

Lets face it Houston has not fielded a solid offensive line in 5 years. He's getting older and the hits are adding up. Physically, I don't see how he can continue to take those kinds of hits. I would add any other QB would be on IR right now. Look at Sage he's injured during a tackle.

There are very few consistant QB's in the NFL anymore. Its difficult because of the defenses and the size's of the players. I watched people like Montana and Tarkington play the game. Its simply not that kind of game any longer. I keep saying the inability of the QB's to call their own plays makes them more likely to be injured. They can't take advantage of the over reactions of defenders. They can't burn players who are causing them problems. I keep saying the QB's view is totally different that the coach on the side lines or the coach in the press box.

I see so many things wrong with what we are doing, but it makes no sense to talk about them. People are blind as to what many of the problems are and probably so am I. However, I thought it was a no win scenario for Carr when VY declared. I think that is more true as every day goes by. Actually the Texans did VY a big favor and I hope the young man realizes it. He has an excellent shot at reaching his potential because of the coaching staff who is now handling him. If he would of came here, he would have been dead meat.

hot pickle
12-03-2006, 11:01 PM
i've been a carr fan, but ive jump off his band wagon this season, just gotta realize that we have a great coach in houston and he still looks like the same old carr, i think capers and co. wrecked him, and i would not oppose a change in houston

but best of luck to him

Hervoyel
12-03-2006, 11:02 PM
I think it's very likely that if the offense doesn't catch some kind of spark over the last four games David Carr takes the fall. This is turning into a very, very ugly situation. There have been large changes to the offensive personnel and coaching staff. Everyone has said they were pleased with the new direction we were taking and believed in what we were doing. The season started and we had some tough losses. They were really beat downs to be honest. Everyone pretty much accepted that these were growing pains and inevitable with the scope of changes that we made. Then the worst possible thing that could happen to us happened. Offensive linemen started to drop.

Now we're at a point in the season where we all expected the Texans to start looking a little up and they're almost worse than ever before. The cherry on top of this bull manure sundae that we've all been served is that Vince Young is ahead of schedule and Reggie Bush is finally showing signs of life while our own David Carr who's existence and expected (hoped for) performance somewhat dictated how those top three draft picks went down is in the middle of what appears to be the swan dive that his career has been on a collision course with since the moment the Dallas game ended in 2002.

I'm a firm believer that his days are numbered here in Houston. He's on the Tim Couch express to somewhere other than here.

Second Honeymoon
12-03-2006, 11:52 PM
And why are we surprised? Honestly. The guy has never shown anything in 5 years of football and some of us act like its a big surprise. Sometimes, you are what you are....and for Carr that means he is the biggest loser in the history of NFL quarterbacks. It's actually a statistical fact that he has the worst W-L record of ANY quarterback in the history of the game (minimum 3 years starting)....but we all act surprised when he continues to look like the journeyman that he, regretfully, is. He isn't even a has-been...he is a never was.

Let's just hope we make the move this offseason because I can't take another year of this total ineptitude at the QB position.

Oh, and to make matters worse, VY looks like Jesus In Cleats right about now.....he was from around these parts, wasnt he? /sarcasm

Let's just pray for the organization to grow some balls and admit they were wrong. It's kinda like the current presidential administration. The quicker you admit you were wrong the quicker you can fix what went wrong....if you wont admit you were wrong you just fall deeper into a spiral of gloom and doom.

*raises beer* here is hoping that we make the tough decisions and let our football team blossom under our young and promising defense..its our best chance for success

Goldeagle
12-03-2006, 11:57 PM
Bob is just another Vince fan.

I pose the same question because Bob blamed the loss last week on Carrs poor performance.

So basically which is it? Today or last week? Is Carr having a bad day from 9 completions to 30? -5 yards because he was sacked 5 times to 300 yards?

So basically Carr has to complete 100% of his passes and throw for over 300 yards to appease folks?

rockabilly
12-04-2006, 12:06 AM
Our line blows and doesnt give Carr much help. HOWEVER.

Carr does not look good to me. I wish he did....but he doesnt. It is a pain watching his dump off after dump off. I wish for once I would see him make a throw downfield. After seeing Kubiak yell at him today on the sidelines and walk off, while David tried to walk after him and "explain"...it shows that he is not doing well.

I trust in Kubiak. He knows QB's. He has been waiting for a HC job his entire career. He will not let Carr ruin his reign if he doesnt think he can win with him.

I want Carr to be successfull...and I wear his jersey.....but, he is missing something.

mean mark8
12-04-2006, 12:09 AM
Bob is just another Vince fan.

I pose the same question because Bob blamed the loss last week on Carrs poor performance.

So basically which is it? Today or last week? Is Carr having a bad day from 9 completions to 30? -5 yards because he was sacked 5 times to 300 yards?

So basically Carr has to complete 100% of his passes and throw for over 300 yards to appease folks?

84% of Carr's pass attempts going into this game were under 10 yards with fully 25% being behind the line of scrimmage. Those are the junk passes every defense in the league will let you have to burn clock. I might add 6 passes in a row among his record 22 that were for less than 3 yards as we only got one 1st down. He has only attempted 19 passes all year for over 20 yards. Even Kubiak lost faith in him today allowing him to only throw 3 attempts in the entire 2nd half. Kubiak wasn't chewing out the o-line everytime they came off the field. If Sage had been available, he'd have played the 2nd half. Van Pelt looked horrible in practice this week so Kubiak had no other options other than to not allow Carr to pass. That's Kubiak's decision on the matter.

TexansSeminole
12-04-2006, 12:10 AM
I figured it would happen eventually. I figure they'd have to grab a free agent or draft a QB. What do you do if you draft a player? Do you start Sage until the rookie comes along...if Carr is released? I think thats a good question.

kingh99
12-04-2006, 12:12 AM
Bob is just another Vince fan.

I pose the same question because Bob blamed the loss last week on Carrs poor performance.

So basically which is it? Today or last week? Is Carr having a bad day from 9 completions to 30? -5 yards because he was sacked 5 times to 300 yards?

So basically Carr has to complete 100% of his passes and throw for over 300 yards to appease folks?

He may be a guy like Dilfer that gets it late in his career. We are wasting time here. It was an eye opener watching Cutler play like, well, a rookie tonight and DANG IT, Tennessee is going to be ahead of us again in the QB department when we start over. But it's like everyone's saying - Carr's ineptness is holding back the team. I guess they'll try and shop him if Plummer's interested to start next year and groom our next first round wonderboy pick. It better be a guy about 6' 5' with rifle arm and a good head on his shoulders. NO BRADY QUINN. Should be interesting.

DontTreadOnMe
12-04-2006, 12:17 AM
i say we stand by carr and get him some OL depth, a true running back... and a great defense to rely on.. carr will never be great,.. but given the talent in front of him, we have to continue to give him the benefit of the doubt... cross your fingers that spencer can return next season... who cares how bad carr's stats were against oakland, WE WON... celebrate... enjoy it... and we won through defense.. but if kolb is available in the later rounds of the draft, i wouldnt mind seeing us snatching him up to give carr alittle bit of competition...

leachmtb
12-04-2006, 12:19 AM
And why are we surprised? Honestly. The guy has never shown anything in 5 years of football and some of us act like its a big surprise. Sometimes, you are what you are....and for Carr that means he is the biggest loser in the history of NFL quarterbacks. It's actually a statistical fact that he has the worst W-L record of ANY quarterback in the history of the game (minimum 3 years starting)....but we all act surprised when he continues to look like the journeyman that he, regretfully, is. He isn't even a has-been...he is a never was.

Let's just hope we make the move this offseason because I can't take another year of this total ineptitude at the QB position.

Oh, and to make matters worse, VY looks like Jesus In Cleats right about now.....he was from around these parts, wasnt he? /sarcasm

Let's just pray for the organization to grow some balls and admit they were wrong. It's kinda like the current presidential administration. The quicker you admit you were wrong the quicker you can fix what went wrong....if you wont admit you were wrong you just fall deeper into a spiral of gloom and doom.

*raises beer* here is hoping that we make the tough decisions and let our football team blossom under our young and promising defense..its our best chance for success

I'm not going to argue with what you are attempting to say, but simply with the one-sided statistics that you throw out there. I am convinced, as is the case with everyone else, that Carr is going to need to go somewhere else, but to call him a total loser and then quote statistics about how he is the losingest quarterback does not tell the whole picture. You are the same person that gets mad at "Carr homers" as you like to call them for talking about his QB rating - it doesn't say it all. The fact is, Ryan Leaf is a never was. David Carr was a guy with a whole lot of potential who has been buried in Houston, and is not gifted enough to be able to dig himself out of it.

I know that you're probably going to attack everything that I just said, but the fact still remains, the "statistical fact" that you quoted does not tell the whole story.

whotex8
12-04-2006, 12:22 AM
Bob has never been much of a Carr fan to begin with. He rarely says anything positive about alot of the players, Texans, Astros, Rockets, etc. Has anyone else noticed that he hasn't done an interview with Carr in quite some time? He looks at the news from the "half empty glass" angle no matter what he reports on. Bob Allen should go to work for the Fox News Channel.

Texans34Life
12-04-2006, 12:24 AM
I really hope they make a change at QB. This Texans team is piss poor pathetic.

aj.
12-04-2006, 06:28 AM
Some of you guys need to hear what the head coach is saying about Carr and let it sink in before you immediately jump to his defense:

The Texans won despite Carr's getting sacked five times, leading the offense to just 124 total yards, converting two of 17 third downs and losing Kubiak's confidence so much that he had Carr attempt just three passes in the second half.

"There's just no excuse for putting the ball on the ground," Kubiak said. "If we don't protect and you get hit, you've got to protect the ball. (Carr) knows that.

"They were doing nothing defensively that we didn't prepare for. It got to the point that it looked like all he was doing was hurting us. So we decided to run the ball."


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/lopez/4376771.html

eric138
12-04-2006, 07:05 AM
Why not see what Porter can offer us. He is still on the practice squad right?

nunusguy
12-04-2006, 07:30 AM
I am getting sick of Bob Allen. He is not professional when it comes to the Texans. He gets t.o.'d at the Texans and acts like a fan when questioning someone. Like this little Carr comment the first poster is referring to. I understand he covers the team every week, and gets tired of them losing, but he is supposed to at least act like a journalist.
I also saw Allen, Melton, & Tillman on 13 last night and Allen is a hard critic of Carr but fair IMO. If you watched him last year when he interviewed Capers,
he was tougher on him than any interviewor in Houston. Its his style.

FanFromCali
12-04-2006, 07:40 AM
Best thing that could happen to Carr. He has been beat to death and he has been nothing but a company man. That 1st shot he took today was hard and unubstructed. He still got right back up. I said long before the beginning of the season that it was time for him to move on and I still think that is true. Too many things have happened to him in Houston for him to ever be successful.

Lets face it Houston has not fielded a solid offensive line in 5 years. He's getting older and the hits are adding up. Physically, I don't see how he can continue to take those kinds of hits. I would add any other QB would be on IR right now. Look at Sage he's injured during a tackle.

There are very few consistant QB's in the NFL anymore. Its difficult because of the defenses and the size's of the players. I watched people like Montana and Tarkington play the game. Its simply not that kind of game any longer. I keep saying the inability of the QB's to call their own plays makes them more likely to be injured. They can't take advantage of the over reactions of defenders. They can't burn players who are causing them problems. I keep saying the QB's view is totally different that the coach on the side lines or the coach in the press box.

I see so many things wrong with what we are doing, but it makes no sense to talk about them. People are blind as to what many of the problems are and probably so am I. However, I thought it was a no win scenario for Carr when VY declared. I think that is more true as every day goes by. Actually the Texans did VY a big favor and I hope the young man realizes it. He has an excellent shot at reaching his potential because of the coaching staff who is now handling him. If he would of came here, he would have been dead meat.

You made some great points here.

Texanfan4ever
12-04-2006, 07:55 AM
I am getting sick of Bob Allen. He is not professional when it comes to the Texans. He gets t.o.'d at the Texans and acts like a fan when questioning someone. Like this little Carr comment the first poster is referring to. I understand he covers the team every week, and gets tired of them losing, but he is supposed to at least act like a journalist.

Boy, I couldn't have said that better. I am sick of him too. But if I remember correctly, i think he is a VY lover, so he can't help himself for saying unprofessional things like that. He's been doing it all season, I won't even watch him anymore.

That being said, I AM worried about Carr. I'm not sure what to think. It was an UGLY game.

Hulk75
12-04-2006, 09:47 AM
In the ABC13 Texans' wrap, Bob Allen said over the last four years, he's given Carr the benefit of the doubt:

- poor coaching
- poor offensive line
- poor supporting cast, etc.

But now, after talking to people within the organization, he said it was possible the organization would seriously consider making a change at QB during the offseason.

I share that sentiment. I've been a supporter of Carr since the beginning, but I now have serious reservations about him. If he doesn't turn it around in these last 4 games, it may be curtains for him here in Houston.

First off he does not like Carr and I know that for a fact, he could care less what happens to him, he is the media!
Let me just tell you that he is the biggest snake in the media, buddy buddy in front of you but behind you he rips into you, he is a jerk.

TexasJedi
12-04-2006, 10:47 AM
I also saw Allen, Melton, & Tillman on 13 last night and Allen is a hard critic of Carr but fair IMO. If you watched him last year when he interviewed Capers,
he was tougher on him than any interviewor in Houston. Its his style.

I watch that show every week. I don't mind, and even appreciate, when a reporter asks tough questions. However that still does not mean because Bob asks a couple of tough questions that he acts like a professional, because, IMO (and I know it's only my opinion), he does not. He demonstrates no objectivity acting instead like he's a poster here. I do understand that sports reporting is a bit different than say politics, in that the reporters tend have more camaraderie or animosity towards their subjects, but I think Allen goes beyond that. Just my point of view, that's all.

Double Barrel
12-04-2006, 10:51 AM
So Bob Allen has an opinion that at least half of Texans nation agrees with....'eh, so what, he's human, too. idonno:

Second Honeymoon
12-04-2006, 10:55 AM
Bob Allen only calls it like he sees it. He has eyes just like the Carr Homers but he actually uses them. Oh and he doesnt spew the party line ad nauseum. He is upset as a fan himself. He knows we blew it in the offseason and he wants to make sure that the regime and the parties concerned are held accountable.

I like Bob Allen and if this was up north he would be considered one of the biggest homer media guys in existence. It's just you guys are used to tools like Giff Nielsen. His carebear act got tired 2 decades ago but the goody two shoes and old fogies think he is just swell, so he keeps his job.

I praise Bob Allen for asking the tough questions. When your anointed franchise QB is a total embarassment, it is time for tough questions. This fan base is just in total self delusion half the time. This is the same fan base that think Jeff Bagwell deserves to be in the Hall of Fame....so I am not surprised by the level of myopia in this city.

doug ftw

Porky
12-04-2006, 11:19 AM
Bob Allen only calls it like he sees it. He has eyes just like the Carr Homers but he actually uses them. Oh and he doesnt spew the party line ad nauseum. He is upset as a fan himself. He knows we blew it in the offseason and he wants to make sure that the regime and the parties concerned are held accountable.

I like Bob Allen and if this was up north he would be considered one of the biggest homer media guys in existence. It's just you guys are used to tools like Giff Nielsen. His carebear act got tired 2 decades ago but the goody two shoes and old fogies think he is just swell, so he keeps his job.

I praise Bob Allen for asking the tough questions. When your anointed franchise QB is a total embarassment, it is time for tough questions. This fan base is just in total self delusion half the time. This is the same fan base that think Jeff Bagwell deserves to be in the Hall of Fame....so I am not surprised by the level of myopia in this city.

doug ftw


Gotta agree. It's funny that the Carr homers blame Bob Allen for an opinion that anyone with a pair of eyes not covered by rose colored glasses shares. It's as usual - blame the messenger. In any case, even Kubes ripped Carr a new one, so I guess he is part of the vast right wing, er, anti-Carr conspiracy. Get out the tinfoil hats. If the Carr homers can't see this Carr needs to go to the junkyard, they never will.

Spike
12-04-2006, 12:50 PM
Carr never had a reasonable chance to succeed here and I feel bad for the guy. It seems odd to me that none of the Carr bashers take into account that he has a horrible o-line and gets no protection.

Either way, I do think it is best if the team could make a trade to get rid of Carr...even if it is a later round pick. Get something for him and give him the chance to play for an organization that can put him in a position to win. It would not surprise me to see him succeed with another organization.

Getting a new QB will end the debate. No QB can succeed behind this line or in an offensive scheme that has no identiy....whether that is VY, Kolb or Manning.

Runner
12-04-2006, 12:57 PM
Carr never had a reasonable chance to succeed here and I feel bad for the guy.

I have to disagree. He has been given five years of chances and has shown little improvement when comparing his first year play to his fifth year play. He may have peaked in 2004, but 2005 brought him back down to his starting level and his single improvement this year - getting rid of the ball quicker to avoid sacks - is little payback to 3/4 of a season under his new coach.

This team has cut other players who were better at their respective positions than Carr is at his. If they didn't deserve more than their two to three years, I don't see how it is unfair to give Carr five. These other players had similar poor coaching and lack of surrounding talent as Carr did.

real
12-04-2006, 01:00 PM
Can you imagine how frustrated it would have been to be a reciever in yesterday's game ???

The Pencil Neck
12-04-2006, 01:24 PM
Although I've never considered myself a Carr-homer, I defended him quite a bit before this season started. I wanted to see what he could do with a better offensive scheme and with better QB coaching. I've always stated that I was worried that the incessant beating he's taken over the early part of his career has damaged him.

At the beginning of this year, I was heartened to see how much improvement Carr made. He was keeping his interceptions low and throwing for a high percentage. He wasn't throwing quite as deep as often as I'd like but I figured that would come around. I knew that he wasn't making all the "right" decisions because of some of the stuff that Kubiak has said in his press conferences.

Up until the last few weeks, Carr was on track to set most of the goals that I had set for him at the beginning of the year: about 3500 yards, >60% completion percentage, 18 TD's, 10 INTs. After the past 3-4 weeks, I really think he's regressing. If he doesn't pull it together and start playing a LOT better, then I think it's time to look for another direction.

The bottom line is that I still trust Kubiak to make the right decision on this. I don't think McNair's moentary investment has anything to do with anything. If Carr isn't the guy, I expect him to be gone next year. Kubiak saw some talent and tried to do something with it... and couldn't.

One good thing is that with Kubiak's tutelage and Carr's improved QB rating and completion percentages, maybe Kubiak has enhanced DC's trade value.

the wonger need food
12-04-2006, 02:01 PM
"They were doing nothing defensively that we didn't prepare for. It got to the point that it looked like all he (Carr) was doing was hurting us. So we decided to run the ball."

That's the most honest statement you will ever hear from a coach. I think Kubiak is starting to see what we've seen for 4 years... complete incompetence at the position.

It's a sad situation when you can't trust a 5-year veteran with the simple task of not turning the ball over or giving up yardage.

the wonger need food
12-04-2006, 02:05 PM
Carr never had a reasonable chance to succeed here and I feel bad for the guy. It seems odd to me that none of the Carr bashers take into account that he has a horrible o-line and gets no protection.

Either way, I do think it is best if the team could make a trade to get rid of Carr...even if it is a later round pick. Get something for him and give him the chance to play for an organization that can put him in a position to win. It would not surprise me to see him succeed with another organization.

Getting a new QB will end the debate. No QB can succeed behind this line or in an offensive scheme that has no identiy....whether that is VY, Kolb or Manning.

No reason to feel bad for the guy. He's made millions of dollars and apparantly not had to work very hard to do it. Blame everyone around him all you want, but the simple fact is that he has been a failure.

It would surprise me if he succeeds anywhere. He just doesn't have the mentality to be a successful NFL QB. The game is just too fast for him.

GP
12-04-2006, 02:28 PM
And why are we surprised? Honestly. The guy has never shown anything in 5 years of football and some of us act like its a big surprise. Sometimes, you are what you are....and for Carr that means he is the biggest loser in the history of NFL quarterbacks. It's actually a statistical fact that he has the worst W-L record of ANY quarterback in the history of the game (minimum 3 years starting)....but we all act surprised when he continues to look like the journeyman that he, regretfully, is. He isn't even a has-been...he is a never was.

Let's just hope we make the move this offseason because I can't take another year of this total ineptitude at the QB position.

Oh, and to make matters worse, VY looks like Jesus In Cleats right about now.....he was from around these parts, wasnt he? /sarcasm

Let's just pray for the organization to grow some balls and admit they were wrong. It's kinda like the current presidential administration. The quicker you admit you were wrong the quicker you can fix what went wrong....if you wont admit you were wrong you just fall deeper into a spiral of gloom and doom.

*raises beer* here is hoping that we make the tough decisions and let our football team blossom under our young and promising defense..its our best chance for success

You're right. That loser Bush should have let Saddam continue to put civilians through giant shredding machines.

What a grave error by a man (Bush) who is called "Hitler" in the upper Northwest.

Let's say "We're sorry" and put Saddam back into the business of genocide again. For all of Bush's faults, he did a great thing that NO democrat would have done.

Thanks for bringing politics into this.