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hollywood_texan
12-01-2006, 07:31 PM
I found on espn.com that there is page called splits if you have a players stats page pulled up. Here is the link, http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=3529.

These breakdowns were very interesting and thought it would provide a little more context to the David Carr stat discussion.

Here goes:

Passing Breakdown
Part of the Field ==Comp== Att
Right side== 23.31%== 20.71%
Left side== 29.24%== 28.40%
Middle== 8.90%== 10.06%
Left sideline== ==17.37%== 17.75%
Right sideline== 21.19%== 23.08%

Passing Breakdown
Part of the Field ==Comp== Att
Behind line== 23.31%== 25.44%
1 - 10 yards== 63.14%== 58.58%
11 - 20 yards== 10.59%== 10.65%
21 - 30 yards== 1.27%== 2.07%
31 - 40 yards== 1.69%== 3.25%

TDs Thrown
Leading 8-14 == 1
Leading 1-7 == 1
Tied = 3
Behind by +22 == 5

QB Rating
Leading by 15-21 == 39.6 (only 0-1)
Leading 8-14 == 139.0 (only 6-7 for 55 yards and 1 TD)
Leading 1-7 == 77.1 (41-65 for 271 yards)
Behind 1-7 == 80.1 (61-90 for 563 yards)
Tied == 97.36 (55-75 for 675 yards)
Behind 8-14 == 50.5 (22-36 for 178 yards)
Behind 15-21 == 80.2 (28-37 for 234 yards)
Behind by +22 == 142.4 (24 - 28 for 243 yards)

I went a little step further, if you take out the stats when behind by 22 or more, David's stats are:

Att=Comp=Yards=TD=Int
213=311=1976=5=7

which comes to a QB rating of 81.61.

the wonger need food
12-01-2006, 08:55 PM
Nice breakdown. Based on these numbers there is no doubt that most of his stats are padded in garbage time.

hot pickle
12-01-2006, 08:59 PM
yeah they are, troy smith in the draft anyone, try to get 2 first rounders?

CoastalTexan
12-01-2006, 09:25 PM
Ouch!

TexansTailg8r
12-01-2006, 09:57 PM
Nice breakdown. Based on these numbers there is no doubt that most of his stats are padded in garbage time.


Can't argu with that. I would only add this in his defense: Most defenses call off the dogs during garbage time, which results in fewer people in his face and allows him time to make his reads. The only thing I'm pretty sure about is that our O-Line has never been what you could actually call good. As a matter of fact, most of those units have been way over paid and not qualified to do the job. It's pretty obvious to me that Kubiak's system is limited by the inability of the o-line. I think he realizes this and did from the start and that's why we drafted Spencer and Winston. Look for another unsexy(or is it non sexy) pick or two this coming draft on trench guys. This has to be fixed or it really won':twocents: t matter who takes the snaps.

whiskeyrbl
12-02-2006, 12:11 AM
Well something is wrong because he has thrown 10 Td's and you have him down for 5. Sorry didn't read thru at the end where you refer to being 22 points behind or more, my bad. Carry on, nice breakdown.

mean mark8
12-02-2006, 12:50 AM
At last somebody who found some cold hard stats that verify what we've all thought. Out of his 339 attempt fully 83.77% have been for 10 yards or less; 25% have been behind the line of scrimmage of which he only completes 64%. 18 pass attempts (5%) through 11 games over 20 yards.

Comparables:
Vince Young - 60% for 10 yards or less, 21% behind the line of scrimmage. 34 attempts over 20 yards (14.7%) in 10 games.

Tom Brady - 71.9% for 10 yards or less, 16.3% behind the line of scrimmage. 48 attempts over 20 yards (13.1%).

Drew Brees - 72% for 10 yards or less, 21% behind the line of scrimmage. 37 attempts over 20 yards (9%).

Peyton Manning - 64% for 10 yards or less, 13.5% behind the line of scrimmage. 47 attempts over 20 yards (12.4%).


I believe the stats show, Carr has no vision other than the one read down field for 1.5 seconds then dump the ball to the check down receiver behind the line. While Young's stats aren't great, at least you can see he's looking down field. The great ones throw one out of 7 attempts behind the line and virtually the same number over 20 yards.

eriadoc
12-02-2006, 02:27 AM
I keep expecting someone to come on this thread and point out that stats are worthless.

:yawn:

HOOK'EM
12-02-2006, 05:46 AM
This is just SAD, its time for him to go. I wish him the best on any other team besides the Texans.:gun:

GNTLEWOLF
12-02-2006, 06:06 AM
I keep expecting someone to come on this thread and point out that stats are worthless.

:yawn:

Since you asked.... Come on guys...we all know stats don't mean anything:redtowel:

HOOK'EM
12-02-2006, 06:09 AM
Carr's had his chance, time to move on! For the sake of the team Kubiak, get rid of him.

DeclanJr
12-02-2006, 06:49 AM
Nice breakdown...it confirms what we already suspected :brickwall

Specnatz
12-02-2006, 09:50 AM
I am on the fence about Carr, but can you also add the time he has to throw down the field, when game is close compared to the time he has to throw when down by 21 or more?

As far as saying tiny troy, I can say NO and heck No if you wish.

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2006, 10:44 AM
So we have two QB's that perfrom well in garbage time, but one has a cap hit of 7.2m and the other has a hit of 1.1m? Logic and the Texans have never got along.

Wolf
12-02-2006, 11:17 AM
looks like so far we have 3 games that y'all wouldn't consider "Garbage time"


hey lets breakdown AJ's stats too.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=4461

I smell garbage too :rolleyes:

some continue to ignore the fact this team isn't very good but one person is

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2006, 11:22 AM
looks like so far we have 3 games that y'all wouldn't consider "Garbage time"


hey lets breakdown AJ's stats too.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=4461

I smell garbage too :rolleyes:

some continue to ignore the fact this team isn't very good but one person is

You may not be helping other's points, but you are mine:
7.7m + 7.2m > 7.7m + 1.1m

Honoring Earl 34
12-02-2006, 11:25 AM
Ah... finally the Carr haters are getting behind Carr... Now, boys line up for your Carr-crying towels. :cool:

What ?

Honoring Earl 34
12-02-2006, 11:27 AM
I'm willing to throw Chester and McKinney with Carr under the cap hit bus .

Goldeagle
12-02-2006, 11:34 AM
I keep expecting someone to come on this thread and point out that stats are worthless.

:yawn:


Stats are only worthless when defending David

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2006, 11:38 AM
What ?

The member is either pushing this Carr cryer handle and it may be a generational slang. This is why I love message boards as it brings people from all walks of life to share their ideas, language and experiences.

Carr crying, here is the main reason for these high post counts. The boo-hoo, whoa is me posts are how they get acceptance from each other. It Carrs fault that their wife is on their back again, so if they can put him down.. that will surely make them stand taller. The best ones even complain when we win.. don't combine the threads as it will turn them loose on the bars in Houston. ( soon jails will be over run ) Let's concern ourselves about getting them crying towels. :cool:

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2006, 11:46 AM
I'm willing to throw Chester and McKinney with Carr under the cap hit bus .

Why Pitts? McKinney should be a no brainer cut, unless he is kept around for political purposes.

Honoring Earl 34
12-02-2006, 11:47 AM
Well if Carr is traded ... is he going to root for that team ? If that team does'nt win is he going to call the fans of that losing team weanies also ? Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser .

Honoring Earl 34
12-02-2006, 11:49 AM
Why Pitts? McKinney should be a no brainer cut, unless he is kept around for political purposes.

I think Chesters been here five years , he's making the kinda money a player who produces more makes ... and damn it I'm not opposed to weeding out the whole garden and starting somewhat over .

DRAMA
12-02-2006, 11:52 AM
Sometimes it's just best to let go and move on. I like David but when such a great number of people show no faith in him as the leader of the team, you may just need to try again. It's like Vinny said, which I agree with - it seems we've hitched our wagon to him come hell or high water. I, too, don't quite know why. Maybe we draft a Troy Smith in the 2nd or a Kolb in the 3rd and see what happens?

The fact remains, and again...I like DC ok....is that he hasn't found ways to win games for us.

**People in NE whine about Brady but in their hearts they BELIEVE that he can still bring them to the win.

**People in IND whine about manning and his antics but in their hearts they BELIEVE that he can still bring them to the win

**People in PHILLY whine about McNabb but in their hearts they BELIEVE that he can still bring them to the win if need be.

We've never, and most likely never will, had those feelings about David...that's just really the fact of it.

Wolf
12-02-2006, 12:33 PM
You may not be helping other's points, but you are mine:
7.7m + 7.2m > 7.7m + 1.1m

very true KT

Tale Gator
12-02-2006, 12:43 PM
Carr is an excellent QB when the other team has dropped back in the prevent.

run-david-run
12-02-2006, 02:47 PM
Id be a little more worried about the fact we almost never have the lead then what DC does in garbage time. Less then 10% of his passing attempts come with the lead, that is a problem for the whole team.

Wolf
12-02-2006, 03:02 PM
yep true,, one could argue that some of DD's stats were inflated because over the years a draw play was coming when we were in 3rd and long(time and time again) :stirpot:

TheCD
12-02-2006, 03:35 PM
I believe the stats show, Carr has no vision other than the one read down field for 1.5 seconds then dump the ball to the check down receiver behind the line. While Young's stats aren't great, at least you can see he's looking down field. The great ones throw one out of 7 attempts behind the line and virtually the same number over 20 yards.



I personally disagree with this seemingly comon sentiment. I haven't heard Kubiak criticize Carr yet for not throwing the ball downfield enough. If he has, please correct me, but even so, unless he says that Carr is constantly throwing short and dumping off so much as to hurt our chances of winning, I don't believe he's hurting us.

Remember people...we run a West Coast offense. Short passes all over the field. And while the system does utilize deep passes, for all we know it has been Kubiak's decision not to throw deep.

TexansSeminole
12-02-2006, 03:44 PM
for all we know it has been Kubiak's decision not to throw deep.

I doubt that is true. I can't see an offensive coach who doesn't like throwing down the field. While this COULD be true...I think the chances of it being David Carr not throwing it down field by choice rather than Kubiak are much higher.

Wolf
12-02-2006, 03:52 PM
depends... Kubiak was stated at one time about having to keep the TE's alot to block and with that (have to find the quote) hurts the verticle game

TexansSeminole
12-02-2006, 04:01 PM
depends... Kubiak was stated at one time about having to keep the TE's alot to block and with that (have to find the quote) hurts the verticle game

Yea, true...but even with this disadvantage I doubt Kubiak would decide to never go deep.

Wolf
12-02-2006, 04:20 PM
Yea, true...but even with this disadvantage I doubt Kubiak would decide to never go deep.

very true....frustrates me as well on our verticle game.. I might have to break down and get madden and believe me I WILL go deep :heh:
(just to satisfy my frustration on sundays)

tsip
12-02-2006, 04:32 PM
I personally disagree with this seemingly comon sentiment. I haven't heard Kubiak criticize Carr yet for not throwing the ball downfield enough. If he has, please correct me, but even so, unless he says that Carr is constantly throwing short and dumping off so much as to hurt our chances of winning, I don't believe he's hurting us.

Remember people...we run a West Coast offense. Short passes all over the field. And while the system does utilize deep passes, for all we know it has been Kubiak's decision not to throw deep.

Kubiak often mentions 'lost' opportunities 'down' the field, and that Carr has a long way to go--maybe just me, but that sounds like references to the 'verticle' passing game. What else could he be referring to?

From the 'get-go' months ago, Carr himself talked about the 'pluses' of this system and how many options he'd have in the passing game but-somewhere along the way, these 'pluses' reverted back to what Carr does best, 'dink and dunk.'

Too, Carr has had 2 successful offensive people to tutor him (Palmer and Kubiak), and neither has been able to establish 'any' vertcle game with Carr. I know all the excuses but-like Vinny mentioned awhile back- David has had his oppurtunities to at least show a 'glimpse' here and there and maybe even a 'big' game--4+ tds/400yds--but no/zipola/nada........:brickwall

TexansSeminole
12-02-2006, 04:37 PM
Kubiak often mentions 'lost' opportunities 'down' the field, and that Carr has a long way to go--maybe just me, but that sounds like references to the 'verticle' passing game. What else could he be referring to?

From the 'get-go' months ago, Carr himself talked about the 'pluses' of this system and how many options he'd have in the passing game but-somewhere along the way, these 'pluses' reverted back to what Carr does best, 'dink and dunk.'

I think it is because Carr just doesn't want to mess up. He's not going for the touchdown...he's going for not throwing an interception.

Everybody talks about Carr has all the skills. The arm the legs. But if you are scared to use them, what good are they?

tsip
12-02-2006, 04:43 PM
I think it is because Carr just doesn't want to mess up. He's not going for the touchdown...he's going for not throwing an interception.

Everybody talks about Carr has all the skills. The arm the legs. But if you are scared to use them, what good are they?

...exactly...so where are we going to go as a team with a QB that lacks confidence in himself?

Wolf
12-02-2006, 04:48 PM
as Kubiak stated... one has to play not to lose then he can play to win

we are waiting to see if Carr can turn the corner to "play to win"..right now he is playing not to lose

tsip
12-02-2006, 04:55 PM
as Kubiak stated... one has to play not to lose then he can play to win

we are waiting to see if Carr can turn the corner to "play to win"..right now he is playing not to lose

We've already waited 4+ years=is there really any hope?

Goatcheese
12-02-2006, 06:11 PM
This is getting pathetic.

If stats make Carr look good they don't matter.
If stats make Carr look bad they are the only thing that matters.

If Kubiak says something bad about Carr he's the best coach ever.
If Kubiak says something good about Carr he's a liar, an irredeemable ******* not fit to breath who only cares about protecting his goldenboy.

Every loss is because of Carr.
Every win is despite Carr.

If Carr throws into triple coverage downfield and it's a completion he's finally showing some common sense.
If Carr throws into triple coverage downfield and it's an int he's a worthless retard, an irredeemable ******* unfit to breath who couldn't
make a read to save his life.

If Carr makes a safe throw for a few yards he suck.
If Carr gets sacked holding onto the ball trying to find someone open downfield he suck.
If Carr gets sacked .01 seconds after the snap he sucks.

I don't like alot about Carr. His pocket presence is poor and he is too quick to check down at the slightest preasure despite being a mobile QB. But you can't seriously blaim everything that has gone wrong on him. You can't even blaim 5% of everything that has gone wrong on him. Carr is responsible for throwing ints, missing open recievers, and taking sacks he doesn't have to.

Carr is not responsible for AJs butter fingers.
Carr is not responsible for our defense collapsing.
Carr is not responsible for our injury riddled offensive line that can't give him a pocket more than 2 yards wide.
Carr is not responsible for the play calling.
Carr is not responsible for being drafted number 1.

The posts on these forums are just getting dumber every time I come here. Carr will be our QB untill Kubiak decides otherwise. If that upsets you then voice your opinion like any other consumer and go watch another team. Go worship Peyton Manning, who sucks under preasure, and can't win big games(he's the QB right? So every loss is 100% his fault). Atleast he is good where it counts. Fantasy football stats.

Some of you need to accept that you don't know everything about football. You do not know more than hundreds of NFL experts who say Carr is a good QB with potential to be great and you damn sure don't know more than Kubiak.

There are alot of things this team needs to do if they're ever going to start winning, and it doesn't involve cutting all of our good players because a bunch of ignorant children don't like them.

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2006, 06:47 PM
Looks like someone has a problem dealing with ambiguity. Buck up little camper the marketplace can be a dog eat dog world.

the wonger need food
12-02-2006, 07:02 PM
Go worship Peyton Manning, who sucks under preasure, and can't win big games(he's the QB right? So every loss is 100% his fault). Atleast he is good where it counts. Fantasy football stats.

Some of you need to accept that you don't know everything about football. You do not know more than hundreds of NFL experts who say Carr is a good QB with potential to be great and you damn sure don't know more than Kubiak.

There are alot of things this team needs to do if they're ever going to start winning, and it doesn't involve cutting all of our good players because a bunch of ignorant children don't like them.

I'd take a QB that can consistently win any games... big or small.

Site at least 10 NFL experts that think Carr is now a good QB. Most of these experts state that he potentially can be a good QB. You won't find many "expects" stating he is now a good NFL QB.

Look, the fact of the matter is that Carr has been a consistent loser in the NFL. He does not make big plays and all of his stats are padded heavily in garbage time against 2nd string and prevent defenses. If your Pee Pee hurts because some people on this board state the obvious then you probably need to find somewhere else to read people's opinions about football. Try http://www.geocities.com/davidcarrpage/

MrMeToo
12-02-2006, 07:08 PM
Carr sucks any way you break it down...

HOOK'EM
12-02-2006, 11:25 PM
Agree, carr's got to go!