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View Full Version : Why not Aj & Mathis at the same time?


ib4texans
11-30-2006, 06:21 PM
What Coach Kubiak expects from WR Jerome Mathis) ďIím expecting him to backup (WR) Andre (Johnson) in the game. Thatís kind of what I expect. Heís going to play on offense; thatís what Iíve told you all along. My plan with him is that I want to see him as the full fledged football player. I know he can return kicks. I want to see him go in there when Andre takes his self off the field because heís tired or something, I want to see Jerome operate on the offense as well as return kicks.Ē


I know we have to ease Mathis back in, but I think there is much more potential for a big play going to either player. If he's healthy let him streak the field,he might even be as good a decoy as Reggie. We've only got 5 games to go,can't hold anything back.:cool:

Grid
11-30-2006, 06:28 PM
bad attitude.. he is a raw WR that doesnt think he has anything left to learn.. according to what ive heard anyway. He would be a detriment to the team if we put him on the field every play.

TexansSeminole
11-30-2006, 07:08 PM
Who says this guy has a bad attitue...maybe one thing happened that would make it seem he has a bad attitude.

Trap_Star
11-30-2006, 07:57 PM
Kubiak should set them 3 wide with Mathis... Use him as a decoy. Have him go deep every passing play. A safety would have to respect his speed. No more doubleteams on AJ or Moulds...

ArlingtonTexan
11-30-2006, 08:11 PM
I think people overrate the importance of pure straight ahead speed in a WR. Right now, Mathis needs to prove that he has all the other skills as a WR and really needs to earn more than the handful of plays that andre Johnson is too tired for. Walter is a better option at 3rd WR because he has some level of competience at everything but pure speed.

ib4texans
11-30-2006, 08:35 PM
I would like to see a 3 WR set, Mathis does'nt even have to catch the ball just decoy. A 4 receiver split would hopefully make at least one DB on an opposing team crap there pants. Just wishfull thinking,when in Oakland go vertical.

HomeBred_Texan
11-30-2006, 10:24 PM
I would like to see a 3 WR set, Mathis does'nt even have to catch the ball just decoy. A 4 receiver split would hopefully make at least one DB on an opposing team crap there pants. Just wishfull thinking,when in Oakland go vertical.

You sort of have that with Owen Daniels in the game too...

Grid
11-30-2006, 10:31 PM
decoys are a "damned if ya do, damned if ya dont" kind of situation.

In order for someone to be an effective decoy, they have to first be an effective offensive weapon.. defenses arent stupid.. you put mathis out there and tell him to run deep.. they arent gonna put too much effort into stopping him.. cause they know he is a decoy.

Moulds is an effective decoy because defenses know that if they dont watch him, he will get first downs.

eric138
12-01-2006, 07:27 AM
shoot,

Andre, Kevin, Owen, Eric, Jerome

Line this up with crossings and overlaps and the defense will not know what to do.

HJam72
12-01-2006, 07:30 AM
shoot,

Andre, Kevin, Owen, Eric, Jerome

Line this up with crossings and overlaps and the defense will not know what to do.

Yes, they will. Take Carr's head off in 1.5 seconds or less. Race to the finish.

Otherwise, you're right though.

real
12-01-2006, 07:35 AM
Kubiak Has given up on the season...

BigWig
12-01-2006, 07:48 AM
3 wides 4 wides. it will never work, because then Carr wont have anybody to throw to, not to mention you will sprint those guys to death. He wont be able to do the dink and dunk like he does so well, the only thing he will be able to do is take the sack, which he's excellent at, or that wonderful sideline pass he does to the head linesman on the sidelines.

Texans_Chick
12-01-2006, 08:03 AM
bad attitude.. he is a raw WR that doesnt think he has anything left to learn.. according to what ive heard anyway. He would be a detriment to the team if we put him on the field every play.


I think he has a left over point of view from last season. Last season, he struggled with a hamstring injury, so they minimized his WR time to give him more chance to do returns.

I am guessing Mathis still has that mindset, but the coaches don't want to be that way.

Pure guessing, like most of the stuff here.

real
12-01-2006, 08:06 AM
I think he has a left over point of view from last season. Last season, he struggled with a hamstring injury, so they minimized his WR time to give him more chance to do returns.

I am guessing Mathis still has that mindset, but the coaches don't want to be that way.

Pure guessing, like most of the stuff here.

That's basically saying that he doesn't want to play....

He doesn't want to be on the field as much as he can....He just want to return kicks....

If that's what's going on in his head, then I'm glad Kubiak is riding him....

Marcus
12-01-2006, 08:43 AM
Kubiak Has given up on the season...

.... and you're going to elaborate on this, so that we can discuss it further, right?:)

That's basically saying that he doesn't want to play....

He doesn't want to be on the field as much as he can....He just want to return kicks....

If that's what's going on in his head, then I'm glad Kubiak is riding him....

That's what I suspect also about just wanting to return kicks. And I'm willing to bet money that he'll have a "hamstring issue" in the game on Sunday.

real
12-01-2006, 09:02 AM
.... and you're going to elaborate on this, so that we can discuss it further, right?:)


Yeah....

He's packing it in....It's evaluation time....

He said that they were going to give a lot of young guys a chance from here on out....

And also because this is Jerome's first game back, and he's talking about having him back up our #1 reciever.....

He's packing it in....I don't blame him though.....You might as well use this last 5 games as an evaluation period....

Because next year....All this losing isn't going to cut it....

Marcus
12-01-2006, 09:21 AM
Yeah....

He's packing it in....It's evaluation time....

He said that they were going to give a lot of young guys a chance from here on out....

And also because this is Jerome's first game back, and he's talking about having him back up our #1 reciever.....

He's packing it in....I don't blame him though.....You might as well use this last 5 games as an evaluation period....

Because next year....All this losing isn't going to cut it....

I agree with you for the most part on it being evaluation time, but as far as "All this losing isn't going to cut it", I wouldn't throw the "I'm just going to have to continue to be patient" hat in the trash just yet.

In response to question on his radio show this week regarding how outstanding this year's draft class was, his final thought was, "Yeah, it was very good draft, but we're going to need about 3 or 4 more of them before we get to being a good team".

HOU-TEX
12-01-2006, 09:32 AM
Yeah....

He's packing it in....It's evaluation time....

He said that they were going to give a lot of young guys a chance from here on out....

And also because this is Jerome's first game back, and he's talking about having him back up our #1 reciever.....

He's packing it in....I don't blame him though.....You might as well use this last 5 games as an evaluation period....

Because next year....All this losing isn't going to cut it....

For the most part, he hasn't really had much of a choice but to play the backups. I think he still wants to win. Here's a quote from Kubiak. Take it for what it's worth.

(on balancing looking at young players and winning games) ďThere is only one thing in mind; we are trying to win games. The reason weíre having to look at young players is because of a lot of things that have gone on physically with our players right now, so itís given our young guys opportunities to play. In the case of our running backs, talking about Chris (Taylor), you have to create that situation. Most of our situations for these guys have been created, for (C) Drew (Hodgdon) and players like that strictly because of injury. There are a couple of scenarios going on. We donít do this for any other reason than to win.Ē

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3153&section=N%20Latest%20News

real
12-01-2006, 09:34 AM
For the most part, he hasn't really had much of a choice but to play the backups. I think he still wants to win. Here's a quote from Kubiak. Take it for what it's worth.



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3153&section=N%20Latest%20News

I never said he's not trying to win.....

He's just not giving his best effort....

HOU-TEX
12-01-2006, 09:41 AM
Kubiak Has given up on the season...

I never said he's not trying to win.....

He's just not giving his best effort....

When somebody says "he's given up on the season", he's saying he doesn't care if he wins or not. At least that's the way I decipher it.

real
12-01-2006, 09:47 AM
When somebody says "he's given up on the season", he's saying he doesn't care if he wins or not. At least that's the way I decipher it.


Ok....

When teams that clench an early playoff spot sit their starters and play their rookies for the last two or three games, are they not trying to win ?

It's the same thing, except the coaches are on different ends of the spectrum....Both coaches are basically not giving their all into the games, but just for different reason....

Doesn't mean they aren't trying to win....

kingh99
12-01-2006, 09:59 AM
I saw this Mathis character on the TV set the other day. To say he's got emotional maturity issues is an understatement. He seems like one of those bitter fools who feel he's being used by the man while pulling down 6 figure jack. Pfft. Wait til he walks into the real world.

HJam72
12-01-2006, 10:04 AM
"Yeah, it was very good draft, but we're going to need about 3 or 4 more of them before we get to being a good team".

Oh, no!!!

I just realized this is the 5 YEAR PLAN again! :brickwall

We need to draft more players that can "EXECUTE". :brickwall

ATX
12-01-2006, 10:26 AM
Why not just throw the ball to Mathis on the first play of the game? 15-20 yard slant when he's in full stride.

tsip
12-01-2006, 10:40 AM
I wonder if McNair knew 'before' he hired Kubiak that he was looking at another '4 to 5 yr plan.' Wow, 9 or 10 yrs in the league before we are any good!!...look out season tickets, here we come.....notttttttttttttttt:brickwall

michaelm
12-01-2006, 11:06 AM
Yeah....

He's packing it in....It's evaluation time....

He said that they were going to give a lot of young guys a chance from here on out....

And also because this is Jerome's first game back, and he's talking about having him back up our #1 reciever.....

He's packing it in....I don't blame him though.....You might as well use this last 5 games as an evaluation period....

Because next year....All this losing isn't going to cut it....

Serious Question:

Do we even have any young guys to give a chance to that haven't already been on the field extensively this season?


*edit*
As soon as I hit submit, I realized the gravity of the mistake I made in posting this question...
Prepare for the Porter/VanPelt > Carr barrage...


I apologize in advance.

El Tejano
12-01-2006, 11:22 AM
Kubiak should set them 3 wide with Mathis... Use him as a decoy. Have him go deep every passing play. A safety would have to respect his speed. No more doubleteams on AJ or Moulds...

I was thinking about that and I kind of got happy thinking how Moulds could operate in the slot.

Considering how our offense is geared toward the 5-6 yard dump off, Moulds could be covered by a nickle back and that could pose problems.

Then I thought about it and if you recall, many of Mathis' TDs in college came from him making catches much like this offense gears for AJ, Slant Routes. He would catch the slant and simply outrun the defense. It might be nice if he can be the 7yard catch into 35 yard gain guy for us.

I might be expecting to much too late/or soon but hopefully Mathis will force the team to kick away from him and give us good field position.

real
12-01-2006, 11:29 AM
Then I thought about it and if you recall, many of Mathis' TDs in college came from him making catches much like this offense gears for AJ, Slant Routes.

That's not true....

michaelm
12-01-2006, 12:00 PM
decoys are a "damned if ya do, damned if ya dont" kind of situation.

In order for someone to be an effective decoy, they have to first be an effective offensive weapon.. defenses arent stupid.. you put mathis out there and tell him to run deep.. they arent gonna put too much effort into stopping him.. cause they know he is a decoy.

Moulds is an effective decoy because defenses know that if they dont watch him, he will get first downs.

Agreed on all points, but don't you think that just the threat of Mathis' speed would be more effective at keeping a safety out of the box?
If we go three wide (Mathis in slot) against a 4-3 or 3-4, the defense must honor that speed with a safety at least. Any linebacker who even tries to keep up with him is just taking himself out of the play, and basically making himself useless, IMO.
Just because teams do expect him to make a play doesn't mean they can just let him go free... he may not be a 'decoy', but his presence would almost have to influence coverage to at least a small degree.

TexansLucky13
12-01-2006, 12:01 PM
Mathis should only be on the field in a 4 WR set. I like the guy but he has a lot to learn. I am not too confident in his catching ability, either.

As far as KR, though.... the kid is amazing....

srstex
12-01-2006, 12:19 PM
I'll say it " Kubiak is not trying to win ", look at the play calling from game 1 to now. When he has a lead he runs, runs, runs, punts till the other team catches up, then lets mix it up and try to score, as much as I liked Kubiak when he became our Coach, I am equally pissed off by his play calling, just like Capers, no imagination. I see flea-flickers weekly from everyone but us, the Steelers have always used trick plays-at least once a game- and that helped get them to the SB last year,( no help this year). I don't believe Kubiak looks at what other teams are doing that win against our opponents, because he is not following a winning game plan. Kubiak needs to get his head out of his ego, his players are MEN not kids, as he calls them, Dayne is dead-cut him, Bring in someone that wants to play. Change the way you call a game, scipt out 6 series of plays, go deep three times in a row, anything but what you are doing now. Let Carr call the plays, since he gets so much bad press on this board let's let him earn the critics bashing, or he can shut them up.

El Tejano
12-01-2006, 12:41 PM
I'll say it " Kubiak is not trying to win ", look at the play calling from game 1 to now. When he has a lead he runs, runs, runs, punts till the other team catches up, then lets mix it up and try to score, as much as I liked Kubiak when he became our Coach, I am equally pissed off by his play calling, just like Capers, no imagination. I see flea-flickers weekly from everyone but us, the Steelers have always used trick plays-at least once a game- and that helped get them to the SB last year,( no help this year). I don't believe Kubiak looks at what other teams are doing that win against our opponents, because he is not following a winning game plan. Kubiak needs to get his head out of his ego, his players are MEN not kids, as he calls them, Dayne is dead-cut him, Bring in someone that wants to play. Change the way you call a game, scipt out 6 series of plays, go deep three times in a row, anything but what you are doing now. Let Carr call the plays, since he gets so much bad press on this board let's let him earn the critics bashing, or he can shut them up.

I agree with alot of this. I think Kubes is about his system and wants the team to buy into it more.

I think Carr should start calling the plays at this point too. If we are going to have him as our QB then we need to start handing it over to him so that next year he is already in that mode.

tsip
12-01-2006, 01:54 PM
I agree with alot of this. I think Kubes is about his system and wants the team to buy into it more.

I think Carr should start calling the plays at this point too. If we are going to have him as our QB then we need to start handing it over to him so that next year he is already in that mode.

...any NFL player call his own plays?...don't think so...Carr can't read a defense and you want him to call his own plays?...WAIT, on second thought, can he do worse than Kubiak?

Meloy
12-01-2006, 02:12 PM
I was under the impression that Mathis had a problem holding the pass and running the routes. That was why he was moved to returns solely. He then developed the attitude that he did not need to improve his receiver abilities. Am I incorrect? I think that is why Kubes said he wants to find out if he can be a receiver.

Grid
12-01-2006, 05:58 PM
It is statistically impossible for us to make the playoffs. Im all for "packing it in".

That doesnt mean dont try and win games.. it means dont play like you are still in the playoff race.. dont worry about having your best guy out at every position, put in the guys that need more evaluating.. let them get real game experience against teams that are playing for real. We might find that we have a diamond in the rough..at the very least we will know who we can afford to cut, and who we cant.

Good idea.. logical.. no reason for people to not be ok with this.

GNTLEWOLF
12-02-2006, 04:24 AM
What Coach Kubiak expects from WR Jerome Mathis) ďIím expecting him to backup (WR) Andre (Johnson) in the game. Thatís kind of what I expect. Heís going to play on offense; thatís what Iíve told you all along. My plan with him is that I want to see him as the full fledged football player. I know he can return kicks. I want to see him go in there when Andre takes his self off the field because heís tired or something, I want to see Jerome operate on the offense as well as return kicks.Ē


I know we have to ease Mathis back in, but I think there is much more potential for a big play going to either player. If he's healthy let him streak the field,he might even be as good a decoy as Reggie. We've only got 5 games to go,can't hold anything back.:cool:

The reason is... that actually might make too much sense....
At this time of year with our record, I don't see why not... let's try anything.
And Yes, I'm desperate.

ojthecat
12-02-2006, 09:58 AM
I think he has a left over point of view from last season. Last season, he struggled with a hamstring injury, so they minimized his WR time to give him more chance to do returns.

I am guessing Mathis still has that mindset, but the coaches don't want to be that way.

Pure guessing, like most of the stuff here.

I find it hard to belive that he doesn't want to be on the field. I think just the opposite that he thinks he is the next Jerry Rice.

Now as far as Kubiak having Mathis backup Andre I think that is briliiant. Here is the point, Kubiak knows that Mathis needs to work on his wr skills now if he is backing up Andre he will have to work extra hard to get playing time. This is a good modivational move by a good coach.

It is not going to take five more years. We are finally on the right track.

GO TEXANS!!!!!!

sakebomb
12-02-2006, 12:06 PM
Twice as many dropped passes.