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pittbull
11-28-2006, 04:02 PM
With all the criticism placed on the Carr and the Homer fans for VY, what would the Texans record be with a different QB behind center? With this question being posed, remember the same problems still exist:

1) Horrible Line Play
2) Horrible Running Game
3) Horrible fist half of the season for the defense
4) Horrible coaching decisions at times
5) Injuries that continue to bite the team yearly

Manning would have gone nuts by now and would have critiqued the line play after every game, until someone got liquored up and knocked him out. (3-8)

Brady would have stated that the coaching staff was unable to put together a New England Style genuis gameplan and would have begged for Givens to be signed. (3-8)

Favre would have retired by now and his streak would have been ended after week one,, due to multiple injuries and him not being able to sling his guns around Reliant. (0-16)

Roethlisburger would have gotten hit by a Houston motorist on the ever dangerous 610 or construction plagued I-10, still not wearing a helmet. (3-8)

McNabb would have gotten cussed out by the usually quiet Andre Johnson after his inaccurate throws were really not catchable behind this O-line and a gimpy groin. (3-8)

VY would still be running sideline to sideline looking for someone to get open, trying to relive his UT championship days for the good ol' home fans of Houston. (0-16)

No matter which way we look at it, this team still has many holes to fill, especially on the O-line and the RB position. Carr, Johnson, Moulds, Ryans, and now Robinson have played exceptional given the circumstances and those things need to be applauded. At least they have been competitive for a few games, versus the past, when we were done after the initial kickoff.

Texanfan4ever
11-28-2006, 04:07 PM
Good thread Pittbull. The voice of reason.

Love the comparisons!!! Too funny!

Those guys would have all begged to be traded after the first 100 sacks. They would have never stayed around for the last 100 to happen.:shades:

eriadoc
11-28-2006, 04:10 PM
IMO, Manning and Brady are good enough to win some games by themselves. I don't think there are many other QBs in the NFL that can say that. Palmer ... maybe. However, would either of them be the QB they are today if they had to be on the Texans from their rookie year forward? I am not so sure about that.

Regardless, this team is not a QB away from being good - they have many more pressing needs. If the foundation is in place, then a new QB might be the shiny new paint job on the souped-up car. Replacing the QB otherwise is still just painting our old beatup Pinto.

Texan_Bill
11-28-2006, 04:11 PM
Very funny thread there Pittbull!! Sometimes a little levity is a great thing!!!

Titan "Tack" Fan
11-28-2006, 04:53 PM
I hope that's a joke..

New_Texans
11-28-2006, 06:05 PM
IMO, Manning and Brady are good enough to win some games by themselves. I don't think there are many other QBs in the NFL that can say that. Palmer ... maybe. However, would either of them be the QB they are today if they had to be on the Texans from their rookie year forward? I am not so sure about that.

Regardless, this team is not a QB away from being good - they have many more pressing needs. If the foundation is in place, then a new QB might be the shiny new paint job on the souped-up car. Replacing the QB otherwise is still just painting our old beatup Pinto.


Manning no, his rookie year with a crappy team with a decent o-line.

Brady, we dont know, hes never had a bad team.

ib4texans
11-28-2006, 06:11 PM
One of the most well worded threads I have had the pleasure to read. Thank You Pit Bull.

hollywood_texan
11-28-2006, 07:13 PM
With all the criticism placed on the Carr and the Homer fans for VY, what would the Texans record be with a different QB behind center? With this question being posed, remember the same problems still exist:

1) Horrible Line Play
2) Horrible Running Game
3) Horrible fist half of the season for the defense
4) Horrible coaching decisions at times
5) Injuries that continue to bite the team yearly

Manning would have gone nuts by now and would have critiqued the line play after every game, until someone got liquored up and knocked him out. (3-8)

Brady would have stated that the coaching staff was unable to put together a New England Style genuis gameplan and would have begged for Givens to be signed. (3-8)

Favre would have retired by now and his streak would have been ended after week one,, due to multiple injuries and him not being able to sling his guns around Reliant. (0-16)

Roethlisburger would have gotten hit by a Houston motorist on the ever dangerous 610 or construction plagued I-10, still not wearing a helmet. (3-8)

McNabb would have gotten cussed out by the usually quiet Andre Johnson after his inaccurate throws were really not catchable behind this O-line and a gimpy groin. (3-8)

VY would still be running sideline to sideline looking for someone to get open, trying to relive his UT championship days for the good ol' home fans of Houston. (0-16)

No matter which way we look at it, this team still has many holes to fill, especially on the O-line and the RB position. Carr, Johnson, Moulds, Ryans, and now Robinson have played exceptional given the circumstances and those things need to be applauded. At least they have been competitive for a few games, versus the past, when we were done after the initial kickoff.

This makes absolutely no sense.

I guess you are saying it doesn't really matter who the QB is for the Texans, they are going to lose?

The first three guys you named are going to the Hall of Fame! Is it safe for me to assume in your rationale that Carr would be a future Hall of Famer on one of those teams?

I think your point is that football is a team sport, but I think you are going a little overboard saying that no other current QB in the NFL couldn't be the least bit successful as a Houston Texan and sniff around .500. It is a least possible, and you not even recognizing that shows a major bias.

Get off it, the QB position is the most important position on offense, and the biggest problem the Texans have on offense may be Carr. It is more than plausable! It is very likely! Look around this year alone and the teams headed downward, they changed the QB position, and some teams started winning.

I am just amazed some of you can't at least recognize that Carr could be a big problem.

I can understand thinking Carr will pan out a few years down the road with total studs around him, but I can't understand that simply because Carr isn't successful at Houston means nobody else can. THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!

ArlingtonTexan
11-28-2006, 07:50 PM
Did anyone else catch the fact the guy who thinks that Carr should go to the probowl also believe that future hall of famers like Manning and Brady would make no difference in the record of the Texans. :homer:

More seriously, the importance of a QB is often overstated, but the Texans would at least be a mediocore team with one the handful of difference makers at QB.

pittbull
11-28-2006, 07:57 PM
In no way am I saying that Carr would be hall of fame material. But I am saying that with this teams history of a horrible GM, bad coaching, bad draft picks, and horrible offensive line play, NO QB IN HISTORY WOULD LEAD THIS TEAM TO THE PLAYOFFS. No Johhny Unitas, Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, or "Broadway Joe" guarantees. The thread was written to bring comedy to a bad situation that all of us are going to wait through, until the franchise figures it out. Get it together. I realize that many things would be different with those qb's as you would see better decision making, but making a decision from your back or in the ICU or ER doesn't help at all!

skillz24
11-28-2006, 08:06 PM
IMO, Manning and Brady are good enough to win some games by themselves. I don't think there are many other QBs in the NFL that can say that. Palmer ... maybe. However, would either of them be the QB they are today if they had to be on the Texans from their rookie year forward? I am not so sure about that.

Regardless, this team is not a QB away from being good - they have many more pressing needs. If the foundation is in place, then a new QB might be the shiny new paint job on the souped-up car. Replacing the QB otherwise is still just painting our old beatup Pinto.

yes we all saw how woulderful brady has played this year with a bad receieving core and an offensive line my 5.2-30 yard dash could rush for a 100 yards on. he has all the protection in the world without he wouldn't have last ten minutes on the field with our line.

manning oh mannig is so good...not think about this he hasn't even been sacked ten times yet this year. he has joseph addai, reggie wayne, marvin harrison, and hell even brandon stokley to throw to. your saying this guy is good enough to win a game by himself with no help my ass. this crybaby throws his line under the bus if his jersey gets dirty what the hell could he do except make his dad shame with embarassment.

go drink whatever left of the brain cells you have away i don't want to read any more of this garbage that spews from you.

pittbull
11-28-2006, 08:11 PM
Did anyone else catch the fact the guy who thinks that Carr should go to the probaoel also believe that future hall of famers like Manning and Brady would make no difference in the record of the Texans. :homer:

More seriously, the importance of a QB is often overstated, but the Texans would at least be a mediocore team with one the handful of difference makers at QB.

Arlington, If you read correctly, I did not say taht David should go to the Pro Bowl, I said that based upon stats and possible other players dropping out of the Pro Bowl due to injury, he could be a possbility. Does David deserve it? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! But stats are stats and that is what got Jake Plummer canned!

skillz24
11-28-2006, 08:11 PM
This makes absolutely no sense.

I guess you are saying it doesn't really matter who the QB is for the Texans, they are going to lose?

The first three guys you named are going to the Hall of Fame! Is it safe for me to assume in your rationale that Carr would be a future Hall of Famer on one of those teams?

I think your point is that football is a team sport, but I think you are going a little overboard saying that no other current QB in the NFL couldn't be the least bit successful as a Houston Texan and sniff around .500. It is a least possible, and you not even recognizing that shows a major bias.

Get off it, the QB position is the most important position on offense, and the biggest problem the Texans have on offense may be Carr. It is more than plausable! It is very likely! Look around this year alone and the teams headed downward, they changed the QB position, and some teams started winning.

I am just amazed some of you can't at least recognize that Carr could be a big problem.

I can understand thinking Carr will pan out a few years down the road with total studs around him, but I can't understand that simply because Carr isn't successful at Houston means nobody else can. THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!

apparently you don't watch football ever.

i could go play for one of those teams that manning and brady are on and i could win games, carr would probably be the second coming of tittle.

don't forget when carr was drafted he was the outspoken number one quarterback in the draft. he closest compitition came from josh mccown out and arizona...and no i didn't forget about joey harrington, but apparently you forgot about how bad he played if you asked that.

pittbull
11-28-2006, 08:17 PM
This makes absolutely no sense.

I guess you are saying it doesn't really matter who the QB is for the Texans, they are going to lose?

The first three guys you named are going to the Hall of Fame! Is it safe for me to assume in your rationale that Carr would be a future Hall of Famer on one of those teams?

I think your point is that football is a team sport, but I think you are going a little overboard saying that no other current QB in the NFL couldn't be the least bit successful as a Houston Texan and sniff around .500. It is a least possible, and you not even recognizing that shows a major bias.

Get off it, the QB position is the most important position on offense, and the biggest problem the Texans have on offense may be Carr. It is more than plausable! It is very likely! Look around this year alone and the teams headed downward, they changed the QB position, and some teams started winning.

I am just amazed some of you can't at least recognize that Carr could be a big problem.

I can understand thinking Carr will pan out a few years down the road with total studs around him, but I can't understand that simply because Carr isn't successful at Houston means nobody else can. THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!

Oh yes, and Carr could be a HUGE problem, but an even bigger issue has been the offensive line that has given up over 200 plus sacks and even the same type this year! Why is McKinney still on the team? 4 years of bad play, and he's not gone............Pitts.....................Weary... ....................the only team in the league to keep players not producing at any position is......................You guessed it, THE TEXANS!!!! But I still love them all!

ArlingtonTexan
11-28-2006, 08:24 PM
Arlington, If you read correctly, I did not say taht David should go to the Pro Bowl, I said that based upon stats and possible other players dropping out of the Pro Bowl due to injury, he could be a possbility. Does David deserve it? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! But stats are stats and that is what got Jake Plummer canned!

Sorry, for the horrible typing before.

IMO, Jake Plummer got canned because he is inconsistent and has a habit of making the bad plays at the wrong time. His fate was sealed last January, confirmed at the draft, not this year when spared everyone to death.

As for stats and Carr, if he were in the NFC you might right. But in the AFC you have at Manning, Brady, Palmer, Rivers, and maybe McNair. The playoff QBs will go first. Of course, the manner in which players find reason not to go the Pro bowl may leave the door open.

awtysst
11-28-2006, 11:19 PM
With all the criticism placed on the Carr and the Homer fans for VY, what would the Texans record be with a different QB behind center? With this question being posed, remember the same problems still exist:

1) Horrible Line Play
2) Horrible Running Game
3) Horrible fist half of the season for the defense
4) Horrible coaching decisions at times
5) Injuries that continue to bite the team yearly

Manning would have gone nuts by now and would have critiqued the line play after every game, until someone got liquored up and knocked him out. (3-8)

Brady would have stated that the coaching staff was unable to put together a New England Style genuis gameplan and would have begged for Givens to be signed. (3-8)

Favre would have retired by now and his streak would have been ended after week one,, due to multiple injuries and him not being able to sling his guns around Reliant. (0-16)

Roethlisburger would have gotten hit by a Houston motorist on the ever dangerous 610 or construction plagued I-10, still not wearing a helmet. (3-8)

McNabb would have gotten cussed out by the usually quiet Andre Johnson after his inaccurate throws were really not catchable behind this O-line and a gimpy groin. (3-8)

VY would still be running sideline to sideline looking for someone to get open, trying to relive his UT championship days for the good ol' home fans of Houston. (0-16)

No matter which way we look at it, this team still has many holes to fill, especially on the O-line and the RB position. Carr, Johnson, Moulds, Ryans, and now Robinson have played exceptional given the circumstances and those things need to be applauded. At least they have been competitive for a few games, versus the past, when we were done after the initial kickoff.

Rep comign your way!

Tulip
11-29-2006, 07:19 AM
In no way am I saying that Carr would be hall of fame material. But I am saying that with this teams history of a horrible GM, bad coaching, bad draft picks, and horrible offensive line play, NO QB IN HISTORY WOULD LEAD THIS TEAM TO THE PLAYOFFS.

Actually, what you were saying in the original post was that no QB in the league today could manage even ONE more win than David Carr. Come on.

Honoring Earl 34
11-29-2006, 07:55 AM
Pittbull, it is useless to try and have a sensible discussion about what plagues the Houston Texans with people that don't understand the game of football and have nothing but blind hatred for David Carr. These are the same kind of morons that think all we need is a better RB and that would solve are running game. I guess they've never heard of the Arizona Cardinals. They went out and signed one of the best RB's in the league and now he consistently struggles to make any impact on a game. Sure, it is nice to have a great RB, but if you don't have a decent line to block for him then your RB's talent is wasted.

Morons ... the only thing that makes you a moron is devoting an afternoon watching the Texans make the Jets look like the 85 Bears . What makes you a moron is calling people morons ... thats just funny .

People who want change are tired of losing , we've won 5 games in 27 tries and that pretty well tells me anyone drafted before this year can be replaced and you can't do much worse .

thegr8fan
11-29-2006, 08:24 AM
while this is a nice FANTASY post, there is actually REALITY numbers from the only QB to really replace Carr in the history of the Texans. His name was Tony Banks and his stats are games played in 5. WINS 3. Loses 2. And one of those loses was in OT against the Superbowl Champion Patriots. The other is against the Colts and he last that one 21-30. Probably the closest we have EVER came to beating the Colts, from memory. Now before all you Carr Homers come and point out the Atlanta game, yes Carr came in when Banks was injured near Halftime, so that game could go either way for credit.

yep, our premier backup QB, Tony Banks, has ALREADY got a better record than our starter Carr. And these are REAL actual games, not the fantasy opinion of a fellow MB member. But remember Banks is BACKUP QB in anyone's standards. So how come he can take the same team and Win a game, while our starter constantly struggles?

So if Backup Banks can win a game or two, or three, and play a competitive game in 2 others, are you REAL SURE, that no other QB in the league could have done the same?

but hey, I can well understand why Carr supporters have a hard time living in REALITY, or facing it. And constantly resort to their favorite Fantasy dreaming.

Texan_Bill
11-29-2006, 08:34 AM
Actually, what you were saying in the original post was that no QB in the league today could manage even ONE more win than David Carr. Come on.

Actually what I think he is saying is that even with Joe freakin' Montana, this would be a horrible team.... Could Joe have possibly won an extra game his own? Sure... So what, we would be 4-7 instead of 3-8.

mexican_texan
11-29-2006, 09:22 AM
Quinton Porter would lead us to an undefeated record.

Hulk75
11-29-2006, 07:02 PM
With all the criticism placed on the Carr and the Homer fans for VY, what would the Texans record be with a different QB behind center? With this question being posed, remember the same problems still exist:

1) Horrible Line Play
2) Horrible Running Game
3) Horrible fist half of the season for the defense
4) Horrible coaching decisions at times
5) Injuries that continue to bite the team yearly

Manning would have gone nuts by now and would have critiqued the line play after every game, until someone got liquored up and knocked him out. (3-8)

Brady would have stated that the coaching staff was unable to put together a New England Style genuis gameplan and would have begged for Givens to be signed. (3-8)

Favre would have retired by now and his streak would have been ended after week one,, due to multiple injuries and him not being able to sling his guns around Reliant. (0-16)

Roethlisburger would have gotten hit by a Houston motorist on the ever dangerous 610 or construction plagued I-10, still not wearing a helmet. (3-8)

McNabb would have gotten cussed out by the usually quiet Andre Johnson after his inaccurate throws were really not catchable behind this O-line and a gimpy groin. (3-8)

VY would still be running sideline to sideline looking for someone to get open, trying to relive his UT championship days for the good ol' home fans of Houston. (0-16)

No matter which way we look at it, this team still has many holes to fill, especially on the O-line and the RB position. Carr, Johnson, Moulds, Ryans, and now Robinson have played exceptional given the circumstances and those things need to be applauded. At least they have been competitive for a few games, versus the past, when we were done after the initial kickoff.

1-10.........Cause all the balls people want Carr to force would add up fast.

hollywood_texan
11-29-2006, 07:35 PM
The guys in this thread saying that no one else could do any better or not even that much than Carr as the QB for the Texans are really just out of touch with reality.

Why are the Colts and Patriots so succesful? It is the QB! There are very good players around them, but those two guys expect a lot themselves and the players around them.

There are several examples to look in particular to this season alone.

1. Drew Brees --- He comes into a new sytem for a team that had the second worst record in the NFL. The offensive line starts a rookie and three of the other guys that start haven't even played a full season and only been in the league for few years. If you look it up, New Orlean has one of the worst rushing offense's in the NFL, yet has the best passing offense. How does any of this make sense with your rational?

2. Big Ben --- The guy went through a major motorcycle accident and had emergency surgery shortly after that right before the season. Big Ben lost a wide receiver and an old running back. Yet, I think he still has his offensive line in tack and he is getting killed by sacks and interceptions. By theory of the Carr supporter on this thread, it doesn't make sense. Big Ben has the same offensive line last year and the same running back.

3. Tony Romo --- The Cowboys were headed to no where before this change.

4. Vince Young --- I won't even go into that one!

I can understand people wanting to give David Carr more chances because he has the physical tools, there already is a lot invested, it's tough to dump a #1 draft pick, and Gary Kubiak is supposed to be the savior of any QB with better than average talent like Jake Plummer. I can understand and really can't say you are out of your mind.

But, to think that no other player could come in and play QB for the Texans and have a completely different outcome, is just ridiculous. If all that is true, then why even play the games?

old football fan
11-29-2006, 08:17 PM
We all know that on a losing team there has to be a villian and David Carr has been chosen to be that villian on the Texans. Is he a good QB? Yes, notice I said a good, not great or awesome. I think there are only 2 great or awesome QBs in the NFL right now and that would be Manning and Brady. I think the Texans need a good running game, remember that John Elway play in 4 Super Bowls but didn't win one until he had a good running game. The Texans need so much help that worrying about the QB so much is counter productive. Maybe the Texans should draft Kevin Klob(?) from UH and groom him. Just a thought. But in reality we have David Carr and like him or hate him he is the QB for the Texans

Texan_Bill
11-30-2006, 09:07 AM
The guys in this thread saying that no one else could do any better or not even that much than Carr as the QB for the Texans are really just out of touch with reality.

Why are the Colts and Patriots so succesful? It is the QB! There are very good players around them, but those two guys expect a lot themselves and the players around them.

There are several examples to look in particular to this season alone.

1. Drew Brees --- He comes into a new sytem for a team that had the second worst record in the NFL. The offensive line starts a rookie and three of the other guys that start haven't even played a full season and only been in the league for few years. If you look it up, New Orlean has one of the worst rushing offense's in the NFL, yet has the best passing offense. How does any of this make sense with your rational?

2. Big Ben --- The guy went through a major motorcycle accident and had emergency surgery shortly after that right before the season. Big Ben lost a wide receiver and an old running back. Yet, I think he still has his offensive line in tack and he is getting killed by sacks and interceptions. By theory of the Carr supporter on this thread, it doesn't make sense. Big Ben has the same offensive line last year and the same running back.

3. Tony Romo --- The Cowboys were headed to no where before this change.

4. Vince Young --- I won't even go into that one!

I can understand people wanting to give David Carr more chances because he has the physical tools, there already is a lot invested, it's tough to dump a #1 draft pick, and Gary Kubiak is supposed to be the savior of any QB with better than average talent like Jake Plummer. I can understand and really can't say you are out of your mind.

But, to think that no other player could come in and play QB for the Texans and have a completely different outcome, is just ridiculous. If all that is true, then why even play the games?

Just my thoughts:

With the Patriots, the "D" had nothing to do with their Superbowls...

1) Drew Brees -- Duece McCallister
2) Ben Roethlesberger -- Not sure where you are going with this. It one sentence you talk about losing his running back, and in the other he has the same running back.. I understand Bettis is gone and Parker is still there, but its difficult to see what point you are making. Anyway, Roethlesberger and the Steelers are horrible.
3) Tony Romo -- Didn't you think it was ridiculous for the Cowgurls to start the season with the "statue"... Romo should have started the season. Geeez he's been groomed for it for a couple of years.
4) Vince Young -- He won that Giants game all on his own? Giants = Meltdown

Not a Carr Pimp or Carr hater here, but from my view I thinks it funny to try and figure out who (Pimps v. Haters) have the lamest arguments pro or con Carr..... Funny though!!

infantrycak
11-30-2006, 09:53 AM
Not a Carr Pimp or Carr hater here, but from my view I thinks it funny to try and figure out who (Pimps v. Haters) have the lamest arguments pro or con Carr..... Funny though!!

That is about the only entertainment left in the Carr debate at this point.

Specnatz
11-30-2006, 12:24 PM
OK genius, err I mean hollywood, tell me who the next Romo is? Yes he is playing great right now but to anyone who saw him, can you honestly say you would have predicted this, if so why did you not bet your house on it and make lots of money? (preseason does not count we all know that)


STATS:

QB Passing:
1. Tony Romo 110.8
2. P Manning 100.2
3. C Palmer 99.9
4. D Brees 97.8
7. P Rivers 94.5
9. D Carr 88.8

RUSHING:
Houston is not listed, they have 32 players 2 Falcons and 2 Cowboys.

TURNOVERS:
01. Baltimore 29 takeaways 14 giveaways
02. St. Louis 24 takeaways 13 giveaways
03. Chicago 34 takeaways 24 giveaways
04. San Diego 18 takeaways 09 giveaways
26. Houston 11 takeawys 18 giveaways (Carr 7 int [rnk 6] 2 fum lost)

With just these stats it shows that Houston is one deminsional. No team can be successful doing that. I am not defending the play calling or anyone player, because it is a team sport they all have responsibility to play better. With all the dropped passes AJ has had, why not the AJ sucks sigs.

Hookem Horns
11-30-2006, 01:06 PM
what would the Texans record be with a different QB behind center?

All time? 3 wins - 2 losses. Looks like the Texans let the wrong guy walk.

trublu
11-30-2006, 01:13 PM
The guys in this thread saying that no one else could do any better or not even that much than Carr as the QB for the Texans are really just out of touch with reality.

Why are the Colts and Patriots so succesful? It is the QB! There are very good players around them, but those two guys expect a lot themselves and the players around them.

There are several examples to look in particular to this season alone.

1. Drew Brees --- He comes into a new sytem for a team that had the second worst record in the NFL. The offensive line starts a rookie and three of the other guys that start haven't even played a full season and only been in the league for few years. If you look it up, New Orlean has one of the worst rushing offense's in the NFL, yet has the best passing offense. How does any of this make sense with your rational?

2. Big Ben --- The guy went through a major motorcycle accident and had emergency surgery shortly after that right before the season. Big Ben lost a wide receiver and an old running back. Yet, I think he still has his offensive line in tack and he is getting killed by sacks and interceptions. By theory of the Carr supporter on this thread, it doesn't make sense. Big Ben has the same offensive line last year and the same running back.

3. Tony Romo --- The Cowboys were headed to no where before this change.

4. Vince Young --- I won't even go into that one!

I can understand people wanting to give David Carr more chances because he has the physical tools, there already is a lot invested, it's tough to dump a #1 draft pick, and Gary Kubiak is supposed to be the savior of any QB with better than average talent like Jake Plummer. I can understand and really can't say you are out of your mind.

But, to think that no other player could come in and play QB for the Texans and have a completely different outcome, is just ridiculous. If all that is true, then why even play the games?

Wouldn't your theory go the other way then too? Say like Steve Mcnair who had the third worst record last year, and now is with the Ravens who happen to be arguably one of the top three best teams in the NFL. What is the difference...maybe a better defence, better recieving core? No let me guess last year he didn't have "it", he had no leadership, and of course that is all you need to win games...:gun:

trublu
11-30-2006, 01:27 PM
All time? 3 wins - 2 losses. Looks like the Texans let the wrong guy walk.

Wow, Tony Banks was 60% after just 5games.
Well you know David Carr was 100% after 1 game. I wonder why his winning % didn't hold up.:rolleyes:

ib4texans
11-30-2006, 01:47 PM
Pittbull, it is useless to try and have a sensible discussion about what plagues the Houston Texans with people that don't understand the game of football and have nothing but blind hatred for David Carr. These are the same kind of morons that think all we need is a better RB and that would solve are running game. I guess they've never heard of the Arizona Cardinals. They went out and signed one of the best RB's in the league and now he consistently struggles to make any impact on a game. Sure, it is nice to have a great RB, but if you don't have a decent line to block for him then your RB's talent is wasted.


Battle Red, don't give me that O-line ***t. Edgerrin James Sucks ! He's always stunk he was never good and the Colts are lucky they ran that bum out of town.:sarcasm:

I couldn't resist inserting another players name in the verbage used in constant posts. LOL:stirpot:

hollywood_texan
11-30-2006, 02:17 PM
OK genius, err I mean hollywood, tell me who the next Romo is? Yes he is playing great right now but to anyone who saw him, can you honestly say you would have predicted this, if so why did you not bet your house on it and make lots of money? (preseason does not count we all know that)


STATS:

QB Passing:
1. Tony Romo 110.8
2. P Manning 100.2
3. C Palmer 99.9
4. D Brees 97.8
7. P Rivers 94.5
9. D Carr 88.8

RUSHING:
Houston is not listed, they have 32 players 2 Falcons and 2 Cowboys.

TURNOVERS:
01. Baltimore 29 takeaways 14 giveaways
02. St. Louis 24 takeaways 13 giveaways
03. Chicago 34 takeaways 24 giveaways
04. San Diego 18 takeaways 09 giveaways
26. Houston 11 takeawys 18 giveaways (Carr 7 int [rnk 6] 2 fum lost)

With just these stats it shows that Houston is one deminsional. No team can be successful doing that. I am not defending the play calling or anyone player, because it is a team sport they all have responsibility to play better. With all the dropped passes AJ has had, why not the AJ sucks sigs.

Totally missed my point!

My point was that Carr could be just as much a part of the problem as all the other problems pointed out by the Carr supporters. Your point above is that other players are not bringing enough to the table, maybe Carr isn't bringing enough to the table too?

I find it really hard to believe that the Texans couldn't at least go .500 or sniff around it with another QB, which is the whole point of this thread.

Can you at least recongize that Carr could me more of the problem than the solution?

Look at all that has changed around Carr, and it is still the same old situation!

The offense isn't even trending in the right direction!

hollywood_texan
11-30-2006, 02:22 PM
Wouldn't your theory go the other way then too? Say like Steve Mcnair who had the third worst record last year, and now is with the Ravens who happen to be arguably one of the top three best teams in the NFL. What is the difference...maybe a better defence, better recieving core? No let me guess last year he didn't have "it", he had no leadership, and of course that is all you need to win games...:gun:

It all depends on how you look at it.

Look at the Ravens and where they were last year compared to today and what has changed. They changed the QB and now they are winning!

By the way, I wasn't presenting a theory, I was merely analyzing someone else's theory.

It is a legit discussion if Carr is more of a problem than a solution for the Texans.

If you can't recognize that, there really is nothing to discuss.

hollywood_texan
11-30-2006, 02:40 PM
Just my thoughts:

With the Patriots, the "D" had nothing to do with their Superbowls...

1) Drew Brees -- Duece McCallister
2) Ben Roethlesberger -- Not sure where you are going with this. It one sentence you talk about losing his running back, and in the other he has the same running back.. I understand Bettis is gone and Parker is still there, but its difficult to see what point you are making. Anyway, Roethlesberger and the Steelers are horrible.
3) Tony Romo -- Didn't you think it was ridiculous for the Cowgurls to start the season with the "statue"... Romo should have started the season. Geeez he's been groomed for it for a couple of years.
4) Vince Young -- He won that Giants game all on his own? Giants = Meltdown

Not a Carr Pimp or Carr hater here, but from my view I thinks it funny to try and figure out who (Pimps v. Haters) have the lamest arguments pro or con Carr..... Funny though!!

Take away the QB play of all those guys listed to their respective teams and put in David Carr, and what would you get? WE DON'T KNOW!!!!

The whole point of this thread is that Texans would still be big time losers with any Hall of Famer QB. Which is ridiculous!

I am led to believe in this thread that everything that is wrong with the Texans has nothing to do David Carr but everybody else around him!

As for Drew Brees, the Saints have one of the worst rushing offense's in the league, but have the best passing offense. Atlanta has the best rushing offense and one of the worst passing offense's. My point is, some guys get it done regardless.

As for Big Ben, the Steelers are basically the same as last year, expect for WR and basically a pretty good old running back. In the offseason, Big Ben almost dies in a motorcycle accident and has an epidectamy right before week 1. Point is, probably Big Ben isn't in the shape and as mentally sharp as last year, since nothing else has changed around him, maybe it is his QB play that is hurting the team. That can't happen according to Carr supporters, because if you have good offense line and defense, a QB will excel.

As for Romo, my point is that the Cowboys change the QB position and they start winning. How can that happen according to the Carr supporters and their theory. If team losses and stinks, it doesn't matter who the QB is?

As for Young, that guy just gets the job done with no excuses and the Titans are not really that much better talen wise from last year. Yet the Titans seem to be turning the corner.

My point is that Carr is a legit discussion about being a problem for the Texans! The Texans keep losing and we just keep hearing the same old excuses.

hou059
11-30-2006, 04:12 PM
QB doesn't need to win every game by his self and he doesn't need to be the best QB in the league...Manning is a future hall of famer but how many rings does he have? McNabb is a future hall of famer but he also has his own wing in every hospital in Philly...and has no Super Bowl RIngs. Maybe Brady could do better behind that horrid o-line but look how he did against a lack-luster Colts defense behind his own line...not too well and who the hellsaid BAnks was competitive...this is a guy who lost his starting job to Trent DIlfer...who has a super bowl ring! HAHAHAHAHA

Texan_Bill
11-30-2006, 04:16 PM
Take away the QB play of all those guys listed to their respective teams and put in David Carr, and what would you get? WE DON'T KNOW!!!!

The whole point of this thread is that Texans would still be big time losers with any Hall of Famer QB. Which is ridiculous!

I am led to believe in this thread that everything that is wrong with the Texans has nothing to do David Carr but everybody else around him!

As for Drew Brees, the Saints have one of the worst rushing offense's in the league, but have the best passing offense. Atlanta has the best rushing offense and one of the worst passing offense's. My point is, some guys get it done regardless.

As for Big Ben, the Steelers are basically the same as last year, expect for WR and basically a pretty good old running back. In the offseason, Big Ben almost dies in a motorcycle accident and has an epidectamy right before week 1. Point is, probably Big Ben isn't in the shape and as mentally sharp as last year, since nothing else has changed around him, maybe it is his QB play that is hurting the team. That can't happen according to Carr supporters, because if you have good offense line and defense, a QB will excel.

As for Romo, my point is that the Cowboys change the QB position and they start winning. How can that happen according to the Carr supporters and their theory. If team losses and stinks, it doesn't matter who the QB is?

As for Young, that guy just gets the job done with no excuses and the Titans are not really that much better talen wise from last year. Yet the Titans seem to be turning the corner.

My point is that Carr is a legit discussion about being a problem for the Texans! The Texans keep losing and we just keep hearing the same old excuses.

1) Thats kind of my point too... We don't know.. It isn't apples to apples and wont ever be.....
2) Read closer. I never suggested that Carr wasn't at fault... I merely suggested that there is plenty to go around for everyone, including rookie coaches.
3) Beleive it or not, the saints were only couple of key positions from turning things around. If they hadn't gotten Colston in the draft they probably would have held onto Dante Stallworth (not a bad one). They had some other pieces in place, and dont tell me that playing at home (a real home) hasn't energized that team and city. To give ALL the credit to Brees and a rookie headcoach is an injustice the rest of that team....
4) I agree with you, I don't think Big Ben has been "right" this year because of the mis-haps that you stated. He's plain outta-sync. But, I ask you to not discount the heart and soul of one Jerome Bettis. His absence, maybe not from a talent standpoint, may be felt in that locker room more than you or I could know.
5) Romo should have started for the cowgurls since day one of this season. I see you working with the take Drew out insert Romo and instantly win. Drew was a statue and had no business on the field. He can not run that offense (let alone any others nowadays). Of course the system will work with someone better suited (mobile) for it.... BUT don't discount that the Cowgurls have TG, TO, Whitten and Julius Jones on O and by the way, the last time I checked, they are sporting a pretty good D too..
6) I promised someone on the other board that I would take it easy on their Man-crush Vince, so I choose the 5th on this one.......Although I will say that the convict (Pac-man), and the little peyton had a huge amount to do with the outcome of that game ( not to mention one huge brain cramp by a Giant D lineman).
7) I have no problems discussing Carr being one problem on this team... I am just not ready to throw in the towell after 11 games, under a rookie head coach and a new offensive scheme.... Thats the only place I am coming from. The problem in these discussions is that people throw blanket statements out like "Carr sucks" with nothing to support it other than typical Carr hater rhetoric.... I would love to discuss what his shortcomings are, how can he improve this or that, etc. Especially since he is going to be here for a couple more seasons - minimum...

So hate all you want, just try to enjoy the next couple of years as much as you can.... Who knows, there may even be some room on the bandwagon when Kubes gets this thing turned around...

wolfscar
11-30-2006, 04:50 PM
Regardless, this team is not a QB away from being good - they have many more pressing needs. If the foundation is in place, then a new QB might be the shiny new paint job on the souped-up car. Replacing the QB otherwise is still just painting our old beatup Pinto.

Absolutely 100% spot on. David Carr may not be the franchise quarterback we all hoped he would be - and of course he may yet prove that he is - but either way he is certainly not the greatest issue that the Texans face right now in terms of personnel. CB, FS, O-Line, DT, OLB, RB, K, P, for me, would all come before Carr in terms of 'needs for this team to fill the holes that need to be filled'.

And whilst we may still be floundering around the I-10 in that beaten up old Pinto, at least now we've got someone who knows how to drive behind the wheel. Kubiak may not have his foot on the gas right now, but he does at least know which side of the road he's meant to drive on.

trublu
11-30-2006, 04:58 PM
It all depends on how you look at it.

Look at the Ravens and where they were last year compared to today and what has changed. They changed the QB and now they are winning!

By the way, I wasn't presenting a theory, I was merely analyzing someone else's theory.

It is a legit discussion if Carr is more of a problem than a solution for the Texans.

If you can't recognize that, there really is nothing to discuss.

You're right. The only thing the Ravens changed is a QB and they are a SB contender, but they have an outstanding defence and a bruising back. If you can't recognize that the Texans have neither than you're right again, there is really nothing to discuss.

beerlover
12-01-2006, 02:38 AM
fair or not pitt asked the question would the Texans record be improved with QB VY/TB/PM etc. etc. basicly with the tools he has had to work with. my response is we'll never know, but there is one thing for sure not all of them would still be standing or able to still play QB in the NFL without missing a heck of alot more playing time :potkettle:

Mattheus_Rex
12-01-2006, 03:19 AM
Hey, the Texans's have a bruising back too. His name is Ron Dayne. He doesn't break tackles though, just legs. :crutch:

Still waiting for that to happen. lol.

real
12-01-2006, 09:30 AM
So I'm listening to the radio....ESPN 790.....

And Antoine Smith is on the Davies and Dukes show...

They asked him about Carr and his approach to handling the players....

Antoine basically said that Carr needs to show more leadership and command....

Just an FYI...

Honoring Earl 34
12-01-2006, 09:37 AM
Whats Antione doing these days ? Does 790 have 10 minutes of commercial to every 2 minutes of show ?

real
12-01-2006, 09:38 AM
Whats Antione doing these days ? Does 790 have 10 minutes of commercial to every 2 minutes of show ?

I think he said he's about to go play for Dallas

real
12-01-2006, 10:32 AM
Carr has never even taken a vicious hit. He either cowars in fear and curls up or runs like a girlieman towards the sidelines when the going gets tough.


:rolleyes:

I am not a huge Carr fan....and I can find a million reasons to criticize him....

But his toughness is not one of them....

trublu
12-01-2006, 03:15 PM
Hey, the Texans's have a bruising back too. His name is Ron Dayne. He doesn't break tackles though, just legs. :crutch:

lol!

TexanFanInCC
12-01-2006, 04:39 PM
did a little computation. texans are 2-2 when carr doesnt start.

banks 2-1
ragone 0-1

im not saying we need to dump carr bc we are .500 when he doesnt start. we dont have a great sample space. but this is a stat to keep an eye on if for any reason kubiak chooses to start someone else.

sleepwalker
12-02-2006, 04:55 AM
Get off it, the QB position is the most important position on offense, and the biggest problem the Texans have on offense may be Carr. It is more than plausable! It is very likely! Look around this year alone and the teams headed downward, they changed the QB position, and some teams started winning.

[/U][/B]

I'm not sure what you're smoking, but will you share?

GNTLEWOLF
12-02-2006, 05:01 AM
With all the criticism placed on the Carr and the Homer fans for VY, what would the Texans record be with a different QB behind center? With this question being posed, remember the same problems still exist:

1) Horrible Line Play
2) Horrible Running Game
3) Horrible fist half of the season for the defense
4) Horrible coaching decisions at times
5) Injuries that continue to bite the team yearly

Manning would have gone nuts by now and would have critiqued the line play after every game, until someone got liquored up and knocked him out. (3-8)

Brady would have stated that the coaching staff was unable to put together a New England Style genuis gameplan and would have begged for Givens to be signed. (3-8)

Favre would have retired by now and his streak would have been ended after week one,, due to multiple injuries and him not being able to sling his guns around Reliant. (0-16)

Roethlisburger would have gotten hit by a Houston motorist on the ever dangerous 610 or construction plagued I-10, still not wearing a helmet. (3-8)

McNabb would have gotten cussed out by the usually quiet Andre Johnson after his inaccurate throws were really not catchable behind this O-line and a gimpy groin. (3-8)

VY would still be running sideline to sideline looking for someone to get open, trying to relive his UT championship days for the good ol' home fans of Houston. (0-16)

No matter which way we look at it, this team still has many holes to fill, especially on the O-line and the RB position. Carr, Johnson, Moulds, Ryans, and now Robinson have played exceptional given the circumstances and those things need to be applauded. At least they have been competitive for a few games, versus the past, when we were done after the initial kickoff.


What He said!:includeme: