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thegr8fan
11-27-2006, 10:50 AM
David's current record with the Texans is 15-54. In order for him to have a winning record, he would have to win 12 games a season for the next 5 YEARS. That is assuming that he wins 2 of the next 5 games.

at the end of that 5 yrs, after becoming a powerhouse football team and winning 12 games a year Davids record would then become. 77-77.

5 years from now if he wins 12 games a season he will be exactly a .500 winning record QB.

texan279
11-27-2006, 11:05 AM
Football is a team sport. The 1st 4 seasons, we, as an entire team sucked. Kubiak came in this season and we have already seen some improvement in some areas. Has Carr played outstanding football? No. Has he played horrible footall? No. It seems like some around here thought Kubiak would come in here and take us to the playoffs in his first season as head coach. well, miracles do not happen overnight. In 11 games this season, we already have one more win than we did in 16 games last season. IMO, just from watching the Texans in the 1st 11 games this season, I have already seen a better team on the field this season than I ever saw in the 1st 4 seasons. We had to stomach 4 years of horrible Capers' football, I think I'll give Kubiak and Co. a season or two to see what he can do with this team. IMO we already ahad our best draft and free agent period under Kubiak, the guy is no Dom Capers. We just need to give the team as a whole some time.

Marcus
11-27-2006, 11:05 AM
. . what it would take to make David a Winner

A running game.

texflex513
11-27-2006, 11:11 AM
David's current record with the Texans is 15-54. In order for him to have a winning record, he would have to win 12 games a season for the next 5 YEARS. That is assuming that he wins 2 of the next 5 games.

at the end of that 5 yrs, after becoming a powerhouse football team and winning 12 games a year Davids record would then become. 77-77.

5 years from now if he wins 12 games a season he will be exactly a .500 winning record QB.
johnathan ogden and willie anderson...just for a season of course.

Kaiser Toro
11-27-2006, 11:12 AM
Pay him about 5 million dollars less and spend that money elsewhere. Unfortunately that is not possible.

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2006, 11:30 AM
What it would take to make David a winner? Oh, a miracle.

Even after we jettison his garbage off the team, he will inevitably be given a chance with another team and will fail there as well. He is an abject failure at QB and the longer we wait to make the move, the longer we will retard the growth of our franchise.

The guy is garbage at playing the QB position, always has been, and always will be.

YOU HOMERS WERE WRONG!!

Doug From The Woodlands

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2006, 11:31 AM
Football is a team sport. The 1st 4 seasons, we, as an entire team sucked. Kubiak came in this season and we have already seen some improvement in some areas. Has Carr played outstanding football? No. Has he played horrible footall? No. It seems like some around here thought Kubiak would come in here and take us to the playoffs in his first season as head coach. well, miracles do not happen overnight. In 11 games this season, we already have one more win than we did in 16 games last season. IMO, just from watching the Texans in the 1st 11 games this season, I have already seen a better team on the field this season than I ever saw in the 1st 4 seasons. We had to stomach 4 years of horrible Capers' football, I think I'll give Kubiak and Co. a season or two to see what he can do with this team. IMO we already ahad our best draft and free agent period under Kubiak, the guy is no Dom Capers. We just need to give the team as a whole some time.

Same old lame excuses....geez will you guys ever get a clue?

gg no re
11-27-2006, 11:36 AM
:potkettle:

Double Barrel
11-27-2006, 11:46 AM
Carr is not a clutch QB. I'm not doggin' him, but he's just not the kind of QB that will be able to put a team on his shoulders and carry them to victory.

With that said, Carr is the kind of QB than can manage a game and put up some good stats. BUT, he'll need a solid, dominant defense to secure close leads and seal the deal at the end of games. And a consistent running game would be nice, as well.

Porky
11-27-2006, 12:05 PM
what it would take to make David a Winner?

Seriousely? Okay, Carr can be a winning QB if he is on a team with a dominant Defense like the Ravens a few years ago when they won the SB, with a very good Oline, a RB in the mold of LT or Faulk, a TE in the mold of Gates, a few good to excellent WR's, and a brain transplant.

thunderkyss
11-27-2006, 12:23 PM
I was only really disappointed in David four times yesterday.

He pretty much did what we all knew he was going to do. I was surprised to see that he racked up 320 passing yards....

1) that sack, where he ran into the smallest gap he could find in front of him.
2) That INT....
3) There was a play that he hit Lundy or Cook on a 2 yard dump off where he needed three yards. We didn't get that first down. But you could see on the replay from the QB POV, Owen is wide open just past Lundy/Cook..... past the first down marker. I'll have to find it on the tape, and I'll let you know.

4) Then there was the 1st & 10 play.... on the bootleg, David comes around, and has all day to throw the ball. He's looking down field, to his left, and sees nothing.... after 5 seconds or so, he decides to run the ball out of bounds on the right sideline. You can see Kevin Walter standing their 8 yards ahead of where he went out of bounds. again, I'll have to go watch the tape, so I can give you a reference to see for your self.

For the last three games, I've been giving David Props for being decisive(yes I have).... IIRC, each game, I left thinking was better than the last (for David). But now, I'm thinking he looked decisive, because he hasn't been going through his progressions. He's one reading everything right now, then checking down. That's why I believe he didn't see Owen open beyound Cook/Lundy. That's why he didn't see Walther standing uncovered right in front of him. That's why he is throwing into double & triple coverage, and not finding the wide open guy.

But I'm fine with that. I know it's going to take time for David to get to where he needs to be. This one read then Dump, or one read then run... isn't going to win us alot of games, but for now, I think it's best for David's developement. The next step will be to get him to look over the field as he is dropping back. Then he won't need anymore time than he now utilizes for the dump offs.

I don't know how long that will take though.

WWJD
11-27-2006, 02:46 PM
I really think it would be best for both David and the Texans to part ways.

I'm not sure if that is feasible cap-wise or even if the coaches wish to go in a different direction but to me he needs to go somewhere else, either promote Sage or get another QB.

It just doesn't seem David is working out here. He's very talented, really nice man but perhaps it's time to just go in a different direction.

I think he's given it his best shot here, the team has tried this for 5 years now and there doesn't seem to be much progression in terms of winning. Not all his fault but you know sometimes you just have to say we tried, we failed and let's try something else.

Now cap-wise I'm probably blowing smoke and they cannot afford to just let him go or trade him.

bah007
11-27-2006, 02:50 PM
David's current record with the Texans is 15-54. In order for him to have a winning record, he would have to win 12 games a season for the next 5 YEARS. That is assuming that he wins 2 of the next 5 games.

at the end of that 5 yrs, after becoming a powerhouse football team and winning 12 games a year Davids record would then become. 77-77.

5 years from now if he wins 12 games a season he will be exactly a .500 winning record QB.

What would it take to make David a winner?

My best guess would be if the Texans finished a season with more wins than losses.

touttail
11-27-2006, 02:51 PM
Okay, look what Vince did for Tenn. He "led" a team from a 21 point deficit to win the damn game against the Giants. Carr hasn't done this in 5 years. I think Tenn is that much better overall than us.
VY a rookie QB has heart and is a winner.

Bobby 119C

gg no re
11-27-2006, 03:56 PM
To be fair, David Carr led the Texans back from a 21 point deficit to tie the much more explosive Minnesota Vikings in 2004 to tie the game at 28 all, only to lose on a Culpepper-to-Robinson TD bomb in OT.

dtran04
11-27-2006, 04:17 PM
Big Ben up in Pittsburgh says:

An O-Line so I don't get sacked 9 times a game.

Dominating defense.

Great running game.

Those are some good elements for a winning QB.


(also by not riding a motorcycle)

OrangeCountyTexansFan
11-27-2006, 04:30 PM
. . what it would take to make David a Winner

A running game.
And the receivers to actually catch the ball. What happened yesterday?
:texan:

TheOgre
11-27-2006, 04:40 PM
I see Carr as the next Raider's experiment. Perhaps we can get those 2nd and 3rd round selections back from them.

OrangeCountyTexansFan
11-27-2006, 04:46 PM
Okay, look what Vince did for Tenn. He "led" a team from a 21 point deficit to win the damn game against the Giants. Carr hasn't done this in 5 years. I think Tenn is that much better overall than us.
VY a rookie QB has heart and is a winner.

Bobby 119C
I read New York Giants in your post and just have to roll my eyes. Have you not noticed that the Giants are playing some of the worst football in the league right now? We almost beat them, and now they are playing even worse than their game against us.
Vince Young is not the answer for Houston. Someone like Julius Jones would be.

Kaiser Toro
11-27-2006, 04:46 PM
I see Carr as the next Raider's experiment. Perhaps we can get those 2nd and 3rd round selections back from them.

The more I think about how ridiculous it would be to trade for Carr I do see Al Davis being that guy. Kind of him mooning Shanny and his disciples by turning a broken down "local" QB like Carr into the QB that many thought he would be.

If the Raiders truly were interested, then we surely could find a third party to orchestrate a deal with Carr, Moss and Porter involved to make it a zero sum game from a cap perspective.

Specnatz
11-27-2006, 05:04 PM
What it would take to make David a winner? Oh, a miracle.

Even after we jettison his garbage off the team, he will inevitably be given a chance with another team and will fail there as well. He is an abject failure at QB and the longer we wait to make the move, the longer we will retard the growth of our franchise.

The guy is garbage at playing the QB position, always has been, and always will be.

YOU HOMERS WERE WRONG!!

Doug From The Woodlands


Do you ever have a valid point?? He sucks is not a valid point. You post the same darn thing over and over agian without actually making a point. Of course if anyone criticizes any other part of the team they are making excuses, well actually they are stating a fact ...

The O-line does not passblock very well and they sure in the world do not runblock worth a darn.

This is what is called as actually making a valid point, and not going with the sure fire method of it sucks.

Napa Auto Parts
11-27-2006, 07:37 PM
. . what it would take to make David a Winner

A running game.



True oh he had one againts the bills and he never led the team for a score in the second half. in the past years he has had DD with a very succesfull running game he has had a running game and still not a winning QB:stirpot:

Kaiser Toro
11-27-2006, 07:44 PM
http://www.muddyclay.com/images/milk.jpg


A nice tall glass of Badgers Milk

The Message Board does not endorse Badgers Milk. But speaking from personal experience it is smooth like butter.

kingh99
11-27-2006, 07:57 PM
David Carr's a loser? David Carr's the only winner. Everyone else is a loser. Heck, David Carr puts up solid numbers in spite of the rest of the team. I watched the game. He was shredding that defense with the underneath route.

Imagine how bad it would be without him. Wait, don't do that. Too frightening.

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2006, 07:57 PM
Fix Carr's low release and transplant Peyton's brain into Carr's. I would buy tickets to that show.*

* Not tickets to the actual surgery, but rather tickets to the football games played by FrankenCarr.

dftw

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2006, 08:00 PM
David Carr's a loser? David Carr's the only winner. Everyone else is a loser. Heck, David Carr puts up solid numbers in spite of the rest of the team. I watched the game. He was shredding that defense with the underneath route.

Imagine how bad it would be without him. Wait, don't do that. Too frightening.

When you say 'underneath route' you are referring to just about every pass David throws. Please be more specific.

:sarcasm:

dftw

Koolbrz
11-27-2006, 08:21 PM
David's current record with the Texans is 15-54. In order for him to have a winning record, he would have to win 12 games a season for the next 5 YEARS. That is assuming that he wins 2 of the next 5 games.

at the end of that 5 yrs, after becoming a powerhouse football team and winning 12 games a year Davids record would then become. 77-77.

5 years from now if he wins 12 games a season he will be exactly a .500 winning record QB.


A running game!!! Recievers that will not drop balls in crucial situations, better O-Line, and a lil time to reach his potential in THIS offense.

IshouldbeGM
11-27-2006, 08:54 PM
anthony munoz at left tackle, bruce matthews at right tackle, mike munchak at left guard, russ grimm at right guard and mark stepnoski at center

wwffan99tx
11-27-2006, 10:54 PM
what it would take to make David a Winner

Amnesia

He needs to forget all the beatings he has taken the past 4+ years so he doesn't rush every pass and resort to dumping the ball off short.

Hookem Horns
11-27-2006, 11:33 PM
A Texas lottery scratch off card. Hey, at least in that he has a chance at being a winner.

phan1
11-28-2006, 01:01 AM
Running game. Pretty easy answer. Honestly, we might have been able to win 2 more games this year if we could at least average 3 yds a carry in some games. It's been really pathetic. It's obvious Kubiak wants to force the run-game to come around and work cause that's his system. But you've got to adapt to what you have and if it's not there, than do something different!

I really hope he's preparing for situations where he has to let Carr loose and throw the damn football every single down. It was just too late after he made that interception. Screw the PA, screw the run game, just let David throw the football!

thegr8fan
11-28-2006, 01:08 AM
you guys are missing the big picture here. We fix the running game, get him the Pro-Bowl O-line, he gets AJ, and Steve Smith for WR's, Gonzalez for a TE, all of that is wrong with this team is FIXED, next year. How else are we going to win 12 games a season if we don't get all that repaired. :cool:

and after all of THAT is fixed, it will still take Carr 5 YEARS at 12 games a season to just break even on the win/loss record.

So basically he has 10 years in the league, by then, and is just THEN going to have a win/loss record of .500. :shades:

This idea bothers me slightly. 10 years, .500 QB, and that is if he has a STELLER next 5 years.

hot pickle
11-28-2006, 01:44 AM
start Van Pelt in the game against the Browns


this wouldnt make carr a winner, but it sure would make our team one :mario2:

threetoedpete
11-28-2006, 02:16 AM
I'd settle for half of the support from the Texan's organazation that Dallas Gave Troy. How about a couple of high day one o-lineman next couple of drafts to start. Haven't done it yet. Might make a difference.

threetoedpete
11-28-2006, 02:17 AM
start Van Pelt in the game against the Browns


this wouldnt make carr a winner, but it sure would make our team one :mario2:

You don't have a clue yet. But you're fixin to get one the rest of the season.

TexansSeminole
11-28-2006, 02:24 AM
The "IT" factor that he does not have and can not learn.

SESupergenius
11-28-2006, 12:45 PM
The "IT" factor that he does not have and can not learn.

Yep, that Trent Dilfer sure had it.

3 things that I'd put before Carr to call him a bust.

1. a running game
2. a defense that stop a team from scoring late in a game
3. an offensive line that can block for a QB more than just an allowable quick pass.

aj.
11-28-2006, 01:38 PM
Trent Dilfer (some forget that Tony Banks had more starts than Dilfer that year, before Dilfer replaced him) is proof that you can have a lame QB(s) and still win a championship.

But unless you have guys like Sam Adams, Ray Lewis, Jonathan Ogden, Rod Woodson, Peter Boulware, Rob Burnett, Chris McAlister, Michael McCrary, Jamal Lewis, Priest Holmes and Adalius Thomas around him, then it doesn't matter.

One way to look at this is "if they would only surround him with talent" then he (and the team) could succeed.

Another way to look at it is if you have enough talent on defense, o-line, and running back, you can win in spite of the QB.

SESupergenius
11-28-2006, 01:46 PM
Trent Dilfer (some forget that Tony Banks had more starts than Dilfer that year, before Dilfer replaced him) is proof that you can have a lame QB(s) and still win a championship.

But unless you have guys like Sam Adams, Ray Lewis, Jonathan Ogden, Rod Woodson, Peter Boulware, Rob Burnett, Chris McAlister, Michael McCrary, Jamal Lewis, Priest Holmes and Adalius Thomas around him, then it doesn't matter.

One way to look at this is "if they would only surround him with talent" then he (and the team) could succeed.

Another way to look at it is if you have enough talent on defense, o-line, and running back, you can win in spite of the QB.
Yep, I'd like to see more talent on this team, absolutely because we don't have a lot of good-great players. Our defense can't catch the ball when it's thrown right to them. Our offense can't move the ball on the ground. Roethisburger is thanking his lucky stars that his team has a great defense and pretty much won him a super bowl despite his less than stellar performance. Can anyone explain the enigma of the great Kurt Warner at QB with the Cardinals yet he's a SB MVP?