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View Full Version : The Official "I got Carr's back" thread


New_Texans
11-26-2006, 07:09 PM
To counter the negative one that is also on this so called Texans fans message board.




Carr does not suck.

Carr Bombed
11-26-2006, 07:09 PM
beer

Dubya
11-26-2006, 07:10 PM
I got Carr's back. Not trying to be a homer or anything, but hey... I think he's a fine quarterback now and with a little more help on the OL he can be better.

jerek
11-26-2006, 07:20 PM
Signed. He's demonstrated sufficient improvement to this point.

TexansLucky13
11-26-2006, 07:22 PM
I support David and always will, unless he starts talking smack like Jeremy Shockey or something.

wicked_wayz
11-26-2006, 07:23 PM
count me in, david carr all the way

texflex513
11-26-2006, 07:23 PM
Actually my lats are pretty swole up so my back is bigger than carr's lol. Carr is the best!!!!

AtheGreat
11-26-2006, 07:25 PM
I'm with yall, he's earned my respect by showing a lot of improvment this year. I think once he gets a year of Kubes system under his belt, he'll be even better. It might just be the :homer: in me, but i'm sticking with him.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 07:28 PM
I think it is about time to face facts here people...how much more do you need to see? Sufficient Improvement? In what area of football...not being sacked? Carr is the best?? C'mon...let's step back and realize that getting a new quarterback does not put us back "2-3 more years", that David Carr does not HAVE to be our QB.

rmartin65
11-26-2006, 07:30 PM
I'm in. Carr is not perfect, but he does well, and can do even better. What happened to the people giving him a year to prove what he has in this new offense?

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 07:31 PM
I'm in. Carr is not perfect, but he does well, and can do even better. What happened to the people giving him a year to prove what he has in this new offense?

I think it has been proven that he cannot consistantly score touchdowns. You play the game to win...to win you must score. If you cannot score touchdowns you do not win.

hot pickle
11-26-2006, 07:31 PM
I'll support Carr untill he puts on a different Uni, but i wouldnt mind seeing the texans draft a QB late on the first day, and let Kubiak Work with a QB with better mechanics


GO TEXANS:redtowel:

Scott D
11-26-2006, 07:34 PM
I'm with yall, he's earned my respect by showing a lot of improvment this year. I think once he gets a year of Kubes system under his belt, he'll be even better. It might just be the :homer: in me, but i'm sticking with him.

Carr is not the only problem. He is improving though and within a year or two may amount to something good.

You hit the nail on the head. I hate to say it but the entire ball club stinks! Flat out stinks. Even if one or a small few stink, the entire team stinks. There was some bad decisions made by just about everybody. I would like to say that the defense played pretty good in the first half but really stunk in the second. I'm no football expert, but I know that they failed to show up in the second half.

This team needs some serious rebuilding. There are people out there that shouldn't even be playing in the NFL. The only reason that they are there is that those people are the only one's we got. We have to put somebody out there. This game against the Jets, we looked completely lost out there. The Jets had them believing that they were going to have to punt. And they did.

texflex513
11-26-2006, 07:36 PM
I think it is about time to face facts here people...how much more do you need to see? Sufficient Improvement? In what area of football...not being sacked? Carr is the best?? C'mon...let's step back and realize that getting a new quarterback does not put us back "2-3 more years", that David Carr does not HAVE to be our QB. I will continue to support him until he has a fair shake. Maybe your right BUT i expect kubiak to have this team where he wants it in about 2 seasons. If carr cannot perform with a DECENT LINE and surrounding cast on O by then i will know its time for change but i am willing to wait it out for a few more years. I have confidence in carr. CARR IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 07:38 PM
I will continue to support him until he has a fair shake. Maybe your right I expect kubiak to have this team where he wants it in about 2 seasons. If carr cannot perform with a DECENT LINE and surrounding cast on O by then i will know its time for change but i am willing to wait it out for a few more years. I have confidence in carr. CARR IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!

Confidence in Carr? Two words that do not go well together. Even Kubiak does not trust him...we ran our first legit 2 minute drill today. Kubiak is forced to treat Carr like a highschool QB because mentally that is about where he is at this point.

texflex513
11-26-2006, 07:40 PM
I think it has been proven that he cannot consistantly score touchdowns. You play the game to win...to win you must score. If you cannot score touchdowns you do not win. Scoring td's is not on the qb alone! its a team sport the other guys have to be held accountable for their jobs also it just so happens the QB takes undeserved heat for it alot of times.

TexansLucky13
11-26-2006, 07:42 PM
Scoring td's is not on the qb alone! its a team sport the other guys have to be held accountable for their jobs also it just so happens the QB takes undeserved heat for it alot of times.

Exactly. We have Owen Daniels and Andre Johnson dropping passes. It takes two to get a receiving TD, or a reception at all, for that matter. It is common sense, but some people just don't get it.

TheCD
11-26-2006, 07:43 PM
Count me in.

I'll admit that Carr has been frustrating lately. But he's played decently lately and he's moved to a complicated system that generally takes 2-3 years to become proficient in.


He's done nothing to deserve being run out of town yet.

Hulk75
11-26-2006, 07:44 PM
The only way we can win is when the whole team shows up. Jets played a good game. And our team ( coaching included ) didn't. Makes for a long week for the fans.

Darn right!

TexanFanInCC
11-26-2006, 07:46 PM
i think we could do better than carr, but something that cannot be replaced is carr's swagger. i love how he did the jump shot to the NY fans against the giants. that was pretty slick.

texflex513
11-26-2006, 07:49 PM
Confidence in Carr? Two words that do not go well together. Even Kubiak does not trust him...we ran our first legit 2 minute drill today. Kubiak is forced to treat Carr like a highschool QB because mentally that is about where he is at this point.
That is just your perception of that situation. Coach has alot more patience than you are showing at this point.

Kaiser Toro
11-26-2006, 08:43 PM
Carr has improved, there is no doubt in my mind. I saw some things today that made me think we have gotten a hint of this in the last three games. He also continued to do things that do not help us, such as always finding the WR who is under the line to gain.

What really irks me is that the net improvement from Carr should bolster the offense's production, but there is no incremental growth. This ain't the Kubiak QB coaching school. This is a job, we expect results.

texflex513
11-26-2006, 08:54 PM
Carr has improved, there is no doubt in my mind. I saw some things today that made me think we have gotten a hint of this in the last three games. He also continued to do things that do not help us, such as always finding the WR who is under the line to gain.

What really irks me is that the net improvement from Carr should bolster the offense's production, but there is no incremental growth. This ain't the Kubiak QB coaching school this is a job, we expect results. You are soooooooo right..... but you can only do so much with what you have and key injuries thrown in have set us back. This has been the best draft we have known so far...if nothing else is gained this year at least our QB will have valuable BASIC skills lol taught from a real coach.

kenneth24
11-26-2006, 09:09 PM
:includeme:

texan279
11-26-2006, 09:14 PM
Most of you know I have had Carr's back for years now...

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 10:12 PM
Exactly. We have Owen Daniels and Andre Johnson dropping passes. It takes two to get a receiving TD, or a reception at all, for that matter. It is common sense, but some people just don't get it.

Because Andre drops a pass every game its his fault? I suppose everybodies play would have to be perfect for you to judge Carr's play.

Some of us do not need things to be so black and white.

Loyalty can sometimes be stupidity.

edo783
11-26-2006, 10:14 PM
Carr has improved quite a bit this year, I just wish he had brought the rest of the team with him on his journy of improvement. Particularly the run game and O-line.

wrestler4life
11-26-2006, 10:16 PM
I support Carr. I think taht after all he has gone through, this is his first year in a new offense with an actual QB coach. He has made big strides. I would like to see him go downfield more, but he has improved.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 10:16 PM
That is just your perception of that situation. Coach has alot more patience than you are showing at this point.

That kind of patience can get you fired. You act as if because Kubiak said he thinks Carr can be successful, its over, we wont see another QB under Kubiak. Ehhh, wrong. Kubiak accesses what he has and goes from there...you think he would say "Carr is not very good, but HEY, we'll give him a shot!". Obviously not. Your obviously blinded by something if you cannot see that Carr struggles EVERY SINGLE GAME.

texflex513
11-26-2006, 10:21 PM
Because Andre drops a pass every game its his fault? I suppose everybodies play would have to be perfect for you to judge Carr's play.

Some of us do not need things to be so black and white.

Loyalty can sometimes be stupidity. hi...lol not perfect just everyone on the same page Carr screws up alot but like i have said before TEAM GAME!!!!

ib4texans
11-26-2006, 10:23 PM
When our defense can catch an interception,create pressure on the passer consistantly,create turnovers.

When our offensive lin can run block,give pass protection for more than a 3 sec drop.

When our WR,TE,RB can get a handle on a ball that hits them in the hands,chest,or stomach.

When our running game does not perform as it did with Dallas,New Yor Jets,etc.

Until then I will give David Carr the benifit,when he has over 200 or 300 yards with only 2 interception in the last 3 games. No fumbles in the last 4 games.
His turnovers are down his competitive drive is up (he was fired up at Dre at the end of the 1st half).

If the deficancies above could be remedied,well then we would only be dealing with learning a new offense. Until then if you say anything about the Texans "SUCKS" shame on you!

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 10:27 PM
hi...lol not perfect just everyone on the same page Carr screws up alot but like i have said before TEAM GAME!!!!

Are you serious??? "Carr screws up alot but like i said before TEAM GAME" WTH? You've got Carr's back yet you say he screws up alot. What the hell do you like him for then, his looks? His throwing motion? Seriously...???

About the TEAM GAME. It's hard for a TEAM to do well when the only player that has the ball every offensive down "screws up alot".

Absolutely rediculous your train of thought. Its annoying when you watch your team suck ass all day and then come to the forums where fans are doing the same.

Napa Auto Parts
11-26-2006, 10:27 PM
Carr is the greatest :homer: :stirpot:

texflex513
11-26-2006, 10:29 PM
That kind of patience can get you fired. You act as if because Kubiak said he thinks Carr can be successful, its over, we wont see another QB under Kubiak. Ehhh, wrong. Kubiak accesses what he has and goes from there...you think he would say "Carr is not very good, but HEY, we'll give him a shot!". Obviously not. Your obviously blinded by something if you cannot see that Carr struggles EVERY SINGLE GAME.:confused: he has said carr can be successful many times before lol!!! and guess what? if kubiak says carrs time is done then i will accept it and move on. As for being blinded lol if you give a talented QB like carr a DECENT LINE which involves a DECENT running game he will succeed DC hasnt had both at the same time yet in his career. Any qb would struggle with what he has had to deal with in his time with the texans.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 10:34 PM
Until then I will give David Carr the benifit,when he has over 200 or 300 yards with only 2 interception in the last 3 games. No fumbles in the last 4 games.
His turnovers are down his competitive drive is up (he was fired up at Dre at the end of the 1st half).

Dude he threw the ball 54!!!! times today. 54 times!! I hope he has 300 yards throwing the ball 54 times.

He has one of the best receivers in the league...an up and coming rookie TE...and a 3-time probowler and he only has 10 TDs. 10. TEN. That's horrible. He has 1 TD in the last 3 games. Are you saying you will take a drop in INTs if the TDs drop also?? Because that is what David Carr is providing at this point. Today he threw his first TD of NOVEMBER. He only threw 3 in October. He threw 6 in September. He is getting worse and worse in the TD department as the season goes by. Don't give me this TEAM GAME crap...this offense is capable of scoring a hell of a lot more TDs through the air then 10 in 11 games. Not even a TD a game.

Let's take off the pretty boy goggles for a minute and put our football sunglasses on. Please.

P.S. and yes he did fumble...he fumbled in the Bills game.

Texans_Chick
11-26-2006, 10:37 PM
Just extrapolating, I am guessing the back view of Carr is attractive and worthy of being gotted and whatnot.

We are both married, so that's right out nor is it something I am covetous of.:cool:



Marginal attempt at humor.






2 running backs. 11 attempts for 15 yards. That is a hard thing to wrap your brain around. Really, that is totally vomity. Carr's play wasn't as bad as the critics say or as good as the stats might lie, but it wasn't a pile of stinky festering goo like the running game.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 10:38 PM
Any qb would struggle with what he has had to deal with in his time with the texans.

I've been hearing this for 4 years now...is this all you have to hang on too? He wasn't even pressured that bad today...he just flat out did not preform like many games this season...Carr has 1 good game and 4 bad ones and he is a talented QB? Ok, Ill give you that but talented does not equal successful.

texflex513
11-26-2006, 10:39 PM
Are you serious??? "Carr screws up alot but like i said before TEAM GAME" WTH? You've got Carr's back yet you say he screws up alot. What the hell do you like him for then, his looks? His throwing motion? Seriously...???

About the TEAM GAME. It's hard for a TEAM to do well when the only player that has the ball every offensive down "screws up alot".

Absolutely rediculous your train of thought. Its annoying when you watch your team suck ass all day and then come to the forums where fans are doing the same.thank you!!!! the protection breaks down carr is hit or makes a bad decision...carrs fault???? no the o line!!!!! he has to be given a chance to make a play and that is not possible when your getting pounded and pressured and yes he screws up alot HOLD ON TO THE FOOTBALL those turnovers are his fault but protection other guys fumbles, and dropped balls are NOT! TEAM GAME!!!! Get it straight i have carrs back but im not blind to when he screws up... but i also know when the heat and blame should and should not be all on him.

K.D.
11-26-2006, 10:40 PM
Count me in. Carr is going to get better as uor team as a whole gets better, coaches included. The playbook is not even 50% used because Kubiak knows this team is not where they need to be, this is so obvious. A couple more off-seasons with Kubiak and we are going to be a legit NFL team, as is Carr.

Of course the HATERS are going to say they can't wait, it's time for Carr to go, but these are the fools who watch the Texans and get ants in their pants to say Carr is the problem.These fans look at one individual and base their whole perception of the TEAM on 1 guy. BRILLIANT:deadhorse

texflex513
11-26-2006, 10:42 PM
I've been hearing this for 4 years now...is this all you have to hang on too? He wasn't even pressured that bad today...he just flat out did not preform like many games this season...Carr has 1 good game and 4 bad ones and he is a talented QB? Ok, Ill give you that but talented does not equal successful.
exactly!!!! all the parts of a complete offense equals success can you honestly say carr has everything he needs to succeed now????

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 10:43 PM
thank you!!!! the protection breaks down carr is hit or makes a bad decision...carrs fault???? no the o line!!!!! he has to be given a chance to make a play and that is not possible when your getting pounded and pressured and yes he screws up alot HOLD ON TO THE FOOTBALL those turnovers are his fault but protection other guys fumbles, and dropped balls are NOT! TEAM GAME!!!! Get it straight i have carrs back but im not blind to when he screws up... but i also know when the heat and blame should and should not be all on him.

He'd been sacked 25 times going into this game...that is not even that bad.

Obviously, Carr is not the only problem. This team has more problems than the QB, maybe even bigger ones, but it does not change the fact that we need a new QB.

ib4texans
11-26-2006, 10:43 PM
Dude he threw the ball 54!!!! times today. 54 times!! I hope he has 300 yards throwing the ball 54 times.

He has one of the best receivers in the league...an up and coming rookie TE...and a 3-time probowler and he only has 10 TDs. 10. TEN. That's horrible. He has 1 TD in the last 3 games. Are you saying you will take a drop in INTs if the TDs drop also?? Because that is what David Carr is providing at this point. Today he threw his first TD of NOVEMBER. He only threw 3 in October. He threw 6 in September. He is getting worse and worse in the TD department as the season goes by. Don't give me this TEAM GAME crap...this offense is capable of scoring a hell of a lot more TDs through the air then 10 in 11 games. Not even a TD a game.

Let's take off the pretty boy goggles for a minute and put our football sunglasses on. Please.



!
fumbled in the Bills gamP.S. and yes he did fumble...he e.


Yeah I guess you missed the entire first part of my post, if the rest of the team could fix its deficancies then Carr's play which is acceptable in comparison today compared to:Ben Rothlesburger,Jake Delhomme,Eli Manning and a slew of others. His play is easily puttin us in the win column. If the problems with the run game,D,dropped balls etc... could be acknowledged. 54 attempts might com from the 14,and 11 yard performance by Lundy and Gado. Maybe you should take you football sunglasses off when your sitting in a very dark and gloomy room!

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 10:45 PM
exactly!!!! all the parts of a complete offense equals success can you honestly say carr has everything he needs to succeed now????

Why do things have to be perfect or fully complete before you can judge something. Thats like you painting your house...and can't decide that red isn't a good color before you have painted the whole damn thing.

And yes honestly....I can say that this offense has enough weapons for us to be scoring more often and winning more games.

ib4texans
11-26-2006, 10:49 PM
This post is so funny, Carr Homers unite!!!!! Hey everyone has an opinion so I wil respect yall and your post, but you can take note that I Officially am sick of David Carr!! Oh and mad props to Vince Young!!

Wow! Does he play for the Texans?

texflex513
11-26-2006, 10:49 PM
He'd been sacked 25 times going into this game...that is not even that bad.

Obviously, Carr is not the only problem. This team has more problems than the QB, maybe even bigger ones, but it does not change the fact that we need a new QB. ok thats your opinion i agree to disagree with you i think when the other oline issues begin to get solved carr will improve even more and yes he has improved. I understand you are a fan so am i we just have different views i think carr is our guy you dont overall the TEAM has to do better for us to win. If carr doesnt work out i will be the first to admit i was wrong but like i said i have confidence in him. TEXANS4LIFE!!

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 10:51 PM
Yeah I guess you missed the entire first part of my post, if the rest of the team could fix its deficancies then Carr's play which is acceptable in comparison today compared to:Ben Rothlesburger,Jake Delhomme,Eli Manning and a slew of others. His play is easily puttin us in the win column. If the problems with the run game,D,dropped balls etc... could be acknowledged. 54 attempts might com from the 14,and 11 yard performance by Lundy and Gado. Maybe you should take you football sunglasses off when your sitting in a very dark and gloomy room!

Big Ben has won a superbowl. Jake Delhomme took his team to the superbowl, but lost. Eli Manning has been more impressive than Carr since he has joined the league. He is also the son of a NFL QB and brother of the best QB in the NFL. These guys have obviously proved themselves worthy. If they were no name QBs or QBs who had not proven themselves, I doubt they would be playing much. Everybody goes into a slump...just not 5 year slumps. Bad Argument.

All of the run game, D, Dropped ball problems are realized...this thread is about David Carr so i talk about David Carr...If i were to say everything in one thread itd be so long nobody would read it. Obviously.

The 54 attemtps does come from the horrible running game, but ok??? What are you saying? Im just saying I hope he is throwing the ball for 300 yards when he gets 54 attempts. Basically my point there is dont throw a 300 PASSING YARDS!!!!!! stat up like its a good thing when he threw 54 times, regardless of how good or bad the running game was.

texflex513
11-26-2006, 10:52 PM
Why do things have to be perfect or fully complete before you can judge something. Thats like you painting your house...and can't decide that red isn't a good color before you have painted the whole damn thing.

And yes honestly....I can say that this offense has enough weapons for us to be scoring more often and winning more games.
Yes enough weapons you are right but the key to those weapons is the OFFENSIVE LINE say it with me... RUN BLOCKING ...PASS BLOCKING.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 10:56 PM
Yes enough weapons you are right but the key to those weapons is the OFFENSIVE LINE say it with me... RUN BLOCKING ...PASS BLOCKING.

Seems to me that they are having more problems with the Zone Run Blocking than the Zone Pass Blocking. Carr was sacked 5 times in the 3 games before this one, against the Jets. He threw 0 TDs in those 3 games...obviously the sacks and TDs do not correlate like you seem to think...considering 5 is not a high number, and 0 TDs is OBVIOUSLY not good.

New_Texans
11-26-2006, 10:57 PM
He'd been sacked 25 times going into this game...that is not even that bad.

Obviously, Carr is not the only problem. This team has more problems than the QB, maybe even bigger ones, but it does not change the fact that we need a new QB.


Dont stats lie? :confused: :poker: :yikes:

texflex513
11-26-2006, 10:57 PM
This post is so funny, Carr Homers unite!!!!! Hey everyone has an opinion so I wil respect yall and your post, but you can take note that I Officially am sick of David Carr!! Oh and mad props to Vince Young!! vince young did his thing today i will again give him credit!! the titans as a team did great today:twocents: Carr Homer??? yea maybe TEXANS HOMER! to me thats not such a bad thing.

threetoedpete
11-26-2006, 10:57 PM
Well i can see we're trolling now on the Subject of DC. To quote boggie: I'll try one more time then give it up. OK, on the only seven step drop we attempted today....Carr was rolled like a trany working the streets in Katy. Ok, the 54 attemts should be your first clue. We have no running game vs an in tack decent deffensive line. And the Jets have more than a decent line. For those of you banging on Kubes' decidsion last week, you owe the guy an apology. How many rushes today for how many yards ? Two to go, we couldn't generate a two yard gain today. We have to keep extra guys in now on the medium patterns ( five step drops) which means they are max protecting. If the other team double covers A.J and Owens and takes their chances on Lundy...we're pretty much toast. And the reason that is...we're running and offense who's main theme is the threat of the run. So we got no play action pass threat, on a team whos main cog is the play action pass. If makes you feel better to bang on Carr, good therapy knock yourself out. Just try to refrain doing it on the "I got your back thread". That's kinda trollesque to me. I'm there. Not going to be an easy haul. But I'm in it for the long haul. I got your back DC. It ain't the quarterback.

ib4texans
11-26-2006, 11:01 PM
Big Ben has won a superbowl. Jake Delhomme took his team to the superbowl, but lost. Eli Manning has been more impressive than Carr since he has joined the league. He is also the son of a NFL QB and brother of the best QB in the NFL. These guys have obviously proved themselves worthy. If they were no name QBs or QBs who had not proven themselves, I doubt they would be playing much. Everybody goes into a slump...just not 5 year slumps. Bad Argument.

All of the run game, D, Dropped ball problems are realized...this thread is about David Carr so i talk about David Carr...If i were to say everything in one thread itd be so long nobody would read it. Obviously.

The 54 attemtps does come from the horrible running game, but ok??? What are you saying? Im just saying I hope he is throwing the ball for 300 yards when he gets 54 attempts. Basically my point there is dont throw a 300 PASSING YARDS!!!!!! stat up like its a good thing when he threw 54 times, regardless of how good or bad the running game was.
Originally Posted by ib4texans
Yeah I guess you missed the entire first part of my post, if the rest of the team could fix its deficancies then Carr's play which is acceptable in comparison today compared to:Ben Rothlesburger,Jake Delhomme,Eli Manning and a slew of others. His play is easily puttin us in the win column. If the problems with the run game,D,dropped balls etc... could be acknowledged. 54 attempts might com from the 14,and 11 yard performance by Lundy and Gado. Maybe you should take you football sunglasses off when your sitting in a very dark and gloomy room!


You miss key words in the post, compared to their performance today.

New_Texans
11-26-2006, 11:01 PM
This post is so funny, Carr Homers unite!!!!! Hey everyone has an opinion so I wil respect yall and your post, but you can take note that I Officially am sick of David Carr!! Oh and mad props to Vince Young!!

Well, Vince is gone hes a Titan now...you cant go back in time. This is OUR team...Carr is OUR quarterback. I'm a true fan, and I know Carr can be frustrating to watch at times however tell me this. Do you honestly believe any qb in this league would be able to succeed with this team...this team...THIS TEAM?

so...Doh! Im a :homer: take that I dont care I love my football team.

texflex513
11-26-2006, 11:04 PM
Seems to me that they are having more problems with the Zone Run Blocking than the Zone Pass Blocking. Carr was sacked 5 times in the 3 games before this one, against the Jets. He threw 0 TDs in those 3 games...obviously the sacks and TDs do not correlate like you seem to think...considering 5 is not a high number, and 0 TDs is OBVIOUSLY not good. In our offense supposedly running is the key which is why we cant get into the endzone that and stupid holding and false start penalties in the redzone which have knocked us out of scoring range tooooo many times in the last 2-3 games. Last week we had a good running attack and we made it to the endzone but as usual we screwed up in other areas.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 11:05 PM
You miss key words in the post, compared to their performance today.


?? Ok lets find QBs who have been good in the past and had a bad day today and compare them to Carr....he must be in the same league as them.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 11:07 PM
Find me another starting QB that has gone a whole month and only thrown 1 TD.

ib4texans
11-26-2006, 11:07 PM
?? Ok lets find QBs who have been good in the past and had a bad day today and compare them to Carr....he must be in the same league as them.

.............................. ........................................... .................................................. .. ............................................ ....................... .................................................. ..................................... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Oh did you say something? I can't hear you!

texflex513
11-26-2006, 11:09 PM
If you are a Texans :homer: then you do what is best to keep the team alive and winning even if it is to not re-sign David Carr next season. I seriously hope they do not.
If kubiak decides carr is not our guy i have to respect that and life goes on TEXANS4LIFE! but for now i want david to succeed 100%

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 11:11 PM
If kubiak decides carr is not our guy i have to respect that and life goes on TEXANS4LIFE! but for now i want david to succeed 100%

Of course you want him to succeed, but after repeated attempts and repeated failures you really have to look for another formula for success. You've got to be realistic. There will always be problems on the team. You can't say oh our running game is not good, or our safeties cannot cover, or only one of our linebackers is any good so we just will wait for all that to get better until we judge our QBs play. Thats rediculous. Just because we don't have a playoff team doesn't mean individuals can't be judged.

texflex513
11-26-2006, 11:21 PM
Of course you want him to succeed, but after repeated attempts and repeated failures you really have to look for another formula for success. You've got to be realistic. There will always be problems on the team. You can't say oh our running game is not good, or our safeties cannot cover, or only one of our linebackers is any good so we just will wait for all that to get better until we judge our QBs play. Thats rediculous. Just because we don't have a playoff team doesn't mean individuals can't be judged.
you are right but when you have a new coach like kubiak come in saying i can make it work with carr it leads me to give his formula a chance to succeed if he would have came in and said carr has to go fine i would have went with that flow. Being realistic i know that the team cant be perfect for carr to succeed but i do think the O line is most important part for this success..you know how bad our line was last year...one year of change with major injuries this year isnt going to help matters. Carr this year he has screwed up like last season but improvement (no matter how small) in the short time coach has been around is evident.

Dre_80
11-26-2006, 11:22 PM
i got his back. i heard some teams in the nfl actually have o-lines that know how to block. and they even have guys called "running backs". we could really need something like that :stirpot:

Wolf
11-26-2006, 11:26 PM
problem is some won't give Carr a chance to suceed

BTW ... those that want Carr gone.. who you going to replace him with? don't say sage, or it will be hard for me to type from laughing so hard.. who is out there at this point in the season?

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 11:30 PM
BTW ... those that want Carr gone.. who you going to replace him with? don't say sage, or it will be hard for me to type from laughing so hard.. who is out there at this point in the season?

It really doesn't matter at this point, this season is over for us, I mean we aren't playing for the playoffs or anything, the rest of the season really doesn't matter all that much. I would release him at the end of the season and pick up a FA or draft a QB. If we draft a QB...let Sage start until that QB comes along.

Kaiser Toro
11-26-2006, 11:31 PM
problem is some won't give Carr a chance to suceed

BTW ... those that want Carr gone.. who you going to replace him with? don't say sage, or it will be hard for me to type from laughing so hard.. who is out there at this point in the season?

In my opinion you would not just replacing a body at a specific position; this is about a face lift; a change of direction; or drawing the proverbial line in the stand.

We are Texans fans and are quite used to disappointment, hopefully Kubiak's tolerance for failure is less than others around here.

ib4texans
11-26-2006, 11:32 PM
It really does matter at this point, this season is over for us, I mean we aren't playing for the playoffs or anything, the rest of the season really doesn't matter all that much. I would release him at the end of the season and pick up a FA or draft a QB. If we draft a QB...let Sage start until that QB comes along.

When has Sage proven himself? During trash time vs the Titans,preseason? That something to hang your hopes on.:spy:

TexansSeminole
11-26-2006, 11:48 PM
When has Sage proven himself? During trash time vs the Titans,preseason? That something to hang your hopes on.:spy:

When did I say that he did. But I thought the options after releasing Carr were clearly typed: Pick up a QB from FA, draft a qb, or play Sage. There's no other options.

Wolf
11-26-2006, 11:51 PM
In my opinion you would not just replacing a body at a specific position; this is about a face lift; a change of direction; or drawing the proverbial line in the stand.

We are Texans fans and are quite used to disappointment, hopefully Kubiak's tolerance for failure is less than others around here.

gotcha ;)

ensign_lee
11-26-2006, 11:53 PM
In.

We have bigger problems.

NFLforher
11-27-2006, 12:11 AM
count me in, david carr all the way

Me too.

Revolution
11-27-2006, 12:12 AM
I think it has been proven that he cannot consistantly score touchdowns. You play the game to win...to win you must score. If you cannot score touchdowns you do not win.


Maybe you don't understand. This is the "I got Carr's back" thread. Post in the negative thread if you must, but please stay out of this one!

:challenge :ok:

I'm in by the way. Call me a :homer: , but I support Carr until he is no longer a Texan. After all this franchise put him through, I think he deserves a little slack.

NFLforher
11-27-2006, 12:15 AM
He'd been sacked 25 times going into this game...that is not even that bad.

Obviously, Carr is not the only problem. This team has more problems than the QB, maybe even bigger ones, but it does not change the fact that we need a new QB.


How about Rix?

NFLforher
11-27-2006, 12:18 AM
problem is some won't give Carr a chance to suceed

BTW ... those that want Carr gone.. who you going to replace him with? don't say sage, or it will be hard for me to type from laughing so hard.. who is out there at this point in the season?

Someone suggested Warner. :tease: You think the Cards would let him go?

TexansSeminole
11-27-2006, 12:22 AM
How about Rix?

Haha, I think we can all agree that Rix was/is horrible.

Goldeagle
11-27-2006, 01:53 AM
Carr haters are jealous of Carr and his life. They blame him for no run game and obviously they seem to think a pass in Andre Johnsons hands that he drops like Corey Bradfod is also Carrs fault.

I say we trade him and watch him go win a Super Bowl and then watch the ***** Carr haters make posts about they never wanted to trade him!

Yokohama Texan
11-27-2006, 03:08 AM
Yea, he doesn't suck when the game is already out of reach. He is not a LEADER. Never has been, never will be. I love all of these posts " It's not Carrs fault" it the offensive line, it's the running game, it's the wr's. I have listened to this for the past 3 yrs. Yea, it's not Davids fault. He's the best!!

bigbrewster2000
11-27-2006, 07:30 AM
Its annoying when you watch your team suck ass all day and then come to the forums where fans are doing the same.
Then leave.

MrMeToo
11-27-2006, 08:21 AM
I don't have Carr's back until he becomes a good QB

Tale Gator
11-27-2006, 08:40 AM
Carr was pathetic all game until trash time which was pretty much the entire 4th quarter. His inability to throw the deep ball is killing this team -- his post game comments blaming the running game for the Texans' problems show a complete lack of leadership.

rogerwilco
11-27-2006, 09:12 AM
OD didn't 'drop' the ball. Carr couldn't manage to throw it without it being tipped at the line and spinning off. I confirmed it on TiVO a number of times.

QB75
11-27-2006, 09:17 AM
I'm in. Carr is not perfect, but he does well, and can do even better. What happened to the people giving him a year to prove what he has in this new offense?

They are bandwagonners and disappeared with the first loss. But they will be back.

Mr. White
11-27-2006, 09:21 AM
Carr was pathetic all game until trash time which was pretty much the entire 4th quarter. His inability to throw the deep ball is killing this team -- his post game comments blaming the running game for the Texans' problems show a complete lack of leadership.

I missed this quote about the run game. Anybody got a link for it?

Texans_Chick
11-27-2006, 09:23 AM
It is my point of view that Texans fans are experiencing David Carr fatigue. We have seen him play so much bad football (his fault and otherwise), that unless we see him do amazing stuff, people will dump all their frustrations with the team on his doorstep.

The VY thing contributes to it.

Texans fans are sick of losing, and David Carr is the franchise face of that losing, fairly or not.

Here's my opinion about it:

Texans Fans Suffering From David Carr Fatigue (http://texans.aolsportsblog.com/2006/11/26/texans-fans-suffering-from-david-carr-fatigue/)

Mr. White
11-27-2006, 09:34 AM
I missed this quote about the run game. Anybody got a link for it?

Just found it.

"They weren't giving us anything down the field," Carr said. "When they stopped our running game, it was a tough deal."


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4361366.html

Not a big deal IMO. Just stating the obvious.

I think Peyton Manning's comments about "protection problems" is an example of throwing teammates under the bus. This is nothing.

TexansLucky13
12-03-2006, 09:27 PM
I will be here all alone if I have to, it doesn't bother me.

I've still got your back, David.

texflex513
12-03-2006, 09:30 PM
Im Here With You!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Carr!!!

valleytexfan
12-03-2006, 09:32 PM
I want Carr to succeed...he's a great guy and all. But he's got to start putting together some better performances, or you know Kubiak will go in another direction. He was awful today and the past few weeks as well.

edo783
12-04-2006, 12:02 AM
Until the O-line is fixed, Carr gets a bye. Haven't like his play lately, but how much is driven by other factors is hard to tell.

Napa Auto Parts
12-04-2006, 12:08 AM
I got carr's back he won me over today againts the raiders making play after play:sarcasm::stirpot:

seveneventer
12-04-2006, 12:17 AM
Until the O-line is fixed, Carr gets a bye. Haven't like his play lately, but how much is driven by other factors is hard to tell.

I agree.....you know...things have been messed up but from one game to another...its always someones fault....David...o-line....d-line.....coaches...whatever.....be a fan or pack it up and move somewhere else...cant please all of the people all of the time...just dont jump on later when he gets it together.....for real...give me and the rest of us die-hards a break....:shoot:

phan1
12-04-2006, 12:23 AM
He played unexcusably bad today. I've been a Carr supporter a lot of times, but he was just terrible today. And he can't blame that on anyone. Yeah, the Oline was bad, but they did leave room for Carr to step up and make something happen. He was double-clutching the ball on the 3-step drop just like Brooks was. Terrible game for Carr, and right now I believe the Texans have to seriously think about building a contingency plan in case Carr doesn't work out.

bigTEXan8
12-04-2006, 12:30 AM
i got carr's back on this one. i work for a cbs tv station, so i got to watch the entire texans game. oakland played some bloody good d. they have a blood good d. it's just that their offense doesn't come close. the harrassed carr all day. i remember people saying that he needs to step up into the pocket. what kind of pocket was there today. i've seen bigger pockets in jogging nutter shorts.

ToroFan
12-04-2006, 12:43 AM
I got David Carr's back. People just don't understand NFL QB's placed in bad situations.

Signed,
Tim Couch

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2006, 12:46 AM
Going on five years. What will it take for you to say we have spent to much money on this project and need to cut our losses? How long are you willing to wait?

kingh99
12-04-2006, 12:48 AM
Gary Kubiak, Dave's dad and coach of his pop warner team, had a solid game patrolling the sidelines. It was a little uncomfortable watching father dress down son and I almost wanted to say something a couple of times. I guess the kid's got to learn one way or another.

DC doesn't have the intellectual capacity to excel at the QB position. He can barely read a defense. 3 seconds before, 3 seconds after the snap he's serviceable at best. He's a skinny version of the indecisive bumbler that was Trent Dilfer. Watching Aaron Brooks and David Carr today it became very obvious to me the biggest limiting factor with both teams are their QB's. I am guessing neither put in much film time reading defenses and really being a student of the game. Either that or they are just basically dumb players who are easily duped at the line of scrimmage.

TexansLucky13
12-04-2006, 10:38 PM
Going on five years. What will it take for you to say we have spent to much money on this project and need to cut our losses? How long are you willing to wait?

Are you talking to a Carr fan or Bob McNair? Realize that no one on this board has any official say in what does or does not happen as far as personnel of the Texans.

You can put the knife away now, KT. It's gunna be ok....

HJam72
12-04-2006, 11:00 PM
Going on five years. What will it take for you to say we have spent to much money on this project and need to cut our losses? How long are you willing to wait?

Last offseason. He shouldn't have gotten that extension and we should've taken Young--nothing against Williams. Now that he has it, we're probably gonna have to play it out.

TexansLucky13
12-04-2006, 11:03 PM
Last offseason. He shouldn't have gotten that extension and we should've taken Young--nothing against Williams. Now that he has it, we're probably gonna have to play it out.

Yea, we should have thrown another rookie behind a dismal O-line and let him live off of potential for the next five years.

:sarcasm:

MrMeToo
12-04-2006, 11:13 PM
You Carr lovers are sickening...

TexansLucky13
12-04-2006, 11:14 PM
You Carr lovers are sickening...

Good. When you are sick you are weak. We are never weak. Be sickened.

powerfuldragon
12-04-2006, 11:15 PM
http://standbyyourcarr.ytmnd.com/

Tale Gator
12-04-2006, 11:16 PM
Carr is 22-54 as a starter -- one of those wins featured negative -5 net passing yards.

TexansLucky13
12-04-2006, 11:24 PM
Carr :homer: say they care about Texans, but in reality they only care about Carr.

Your reputation speaks for itself.

HoustonFrog
12-04-2006, 11:37 PM
I'm sorry but I just don't get Carr fans. 5 years of excuses. It was the line and not enough players around him. Then it was coaching. Now are you going to blame small hands or something?I mean you can't just put him in a glass house with the perfect people. Great, even good QBS make things happen for their team. How long have some of you watched football?I've watched since the 70s and I'll tell you one thing, it is easy to see why some guys succeed in the league and others don't. Look what Rosenfels did with the same line. He slid out of the pocket and made plays. Romo does it in Dallas and is confident. The Dallas line was horrible. Carr is not a championship QB. It is obvious. If you think so you are blind. I don't care that the guy might be a great guy, etc, the plan for the Texans is to one day win a SB and David Carr will never win a SB. He is not a QB that leads, he is not a QB that learns and no matter his stats, he still loses. Please stop thinking this guy is the man. The sooner this franchise splits ways with him, the sooner we can get to our goal. How are people so myopic?

TexansLucky13
12-11-2006, 03:31 PM
I will repost this every week if I have to, and it looks like it may be the case. Everyone knows my counterargument and everyone has there own. I support David because he is our best option right now. I will not jump off the edge just because the bandwagon fans have decided to come out of the woodworks.

I've still got your back, David.

kingh99
12-11-2006, 03:38 PM
I will repost this every week if I have to, and it looks like it may be the case. Everyone knows my counterargument and everyone has there own. I support David because he is our best option right now. I will not jump off the edge just because the bandwagon fans have decided to come out of the woodworks.

I've still got your back, David.

You set em up and we'll knock em down. Carr is a big part of the problem. He's a squirrel. Next.

Kaiser Toro
12-11-2006, 03:40 PM
You set em up and we'll knock em down. Carr is a big part of the problem. He's a squirrel. Next.

So techincally, you do not have Carr's back? Correct?

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 03:41 PM
this thread deserves to be nuked into oblivion

the debate is over. you lose. (and that means we all lose as Texans fans)

Texans Front Row Crew
12-11-2006, 03:47 PM
I will repost this every week if I have to, and it looks like it may be the case. Everyone knows my counterargument and everyone has there own. I support David because he is our best option right now. I will not jump off the edge just because the bandwagon fans have decided to come out of the woodworks.



He is our only option right now......

I hope he does better in the last three games- So we could at least trade him for a 3th round pick.

Second Honeymoon
12-11-2006, 03:55 PM
we would have to pay someone to take his contract from us. the NFL isnt baseball or basketball where people move from team to team. his contract makes a trade nearly prohibitive...that is why it was such a double blunder by not only resigning Carr but picking up the most extensive option.......braindead moves were in abundance this offseason

I drank the koolaid to start the season and tried to be a good little sheep.... its like beating a dead horse by now....i just hope that management reads some of the more well constructed posts and gets a good feel for what people want from an NFL organization.

They just set themselves up for a worse case scenario in this past offseason. The potential fallout and blowback was just too immense. They made 4 major moves this offseason. Resign QB. Pass on Local Legend. Draft another workout warrior #1 overall. New Coach. It is worst possible scenario in every one of those moves....including the Head Coach (most important move for any NFL franchise)

Goldeagle
12-11-2006, 04:44 PM
LOL i care and know that Carr is the problem. If people want to compare him to moon, moon at least showed improvement when we added pieces. We have added pieces and I see no improvement from Carr. Carr still passes below the line of scrimmage which is a no no in the NFL. You guys got your new coach and some added offensive help. Carr still blows chunks! 90% of houston is tired of Carr and want a new QB.


Give us an O-line and I dont care if it is Carr or Joe Montana, what we have now will not allow success for anyone back there.

Id take Carr haters more seriously if they didnt cry after every game win or lose.

TXN008
12-11-2006, 04:49 PM
Give us an O-line and I dont care if it is Carr or Joe Montana, what we have now will not allow success for anyone back there.

Id take Carr haters more seriously if they didnt cry after every game win or lose.

Amen to that!
Our current O-line------------>:stooges:

Goldeagle
12-11-2006, 04:52 PM
Current QB: :bag:


He does get sacked a lot!

HOU-TEX
12-11-2006, 04:53 PM
Current QB: :bag:

LOL! I think it's more like this

Current QB=:francis:

scottgroce
12-11-2006, 04:55 PM
I'm with you - overall record is not where we want it, but David is not making bad decisions - I still believe that he is the Texans QB of the future. We have gotten better!

TXN008
12-11-2006, 04:58 PM
:play: :bouncey: Pick me!

Goldeagle
12-11-2006, 05:05 PM
Hey as someone stated Titans were 0-5 without Vince Young! VY came in and now they have a better record than us. Go cry to Carr and tell him to be the man than he isn't.

????????????

VY's Crib U Jus payn Rent
12-11-2006, 05:13 PM
Loser Thread

"Winners Always Find a Way To Win & Losers Always Find a Way To Lose."

Face it - these words ring true again; Vince = Winner and Carr = Loser

Your Disen-Franchse of a club will be a "cellar dwellar" for years to come b/c of the ineptitude from the owner on down.

The management and ownership has sold this city a "bill of goods".

Janus3
12-11-2006, 05:18 PM
carr did the same thing vince did yesterday. got his team into overtime. vince got the ball first and won the game. if carr had it first he would've won the game. everyone shut up about vince being better than carr please.

ToroFan
12-11-2006, 05:23 PM
carr did the same thing vince did yesterday. got his team into overtime. vince got the ball first and won the game. if carr had it first he would've won the game. everyone shut up about vince being better than carr please.

Carr had the ball last in regulation. He could have "won" the game then against the NFL's statistically worst defense.

bayshorebevo
12-11-2006, 05:30 PM
Don't mean to burst anybody's bubble, but Kubiak doesn't trust David to do anything. Why do you think he didn't call anything over a 3-yard pass (except the one to Andre at the end of the game) and why do you think he had David hand off like a Pop Warner game for the entire 2nd half against Oakland? If you're looking for someone to watch David's back, don't count on Kubiak. He probably has already called his old Denver crony, Plummer.

TexansSeminole
12-11-2006, 05:32 PM
I think Kubiak was thinking about what he saw Carr do in college, seeing potential, thinking he would turn it into something. But when he met Carr...seems like from there he has been treating him like a high school football player.

VYISTHEMAN
12-11-2006, 05:33 PM
Ok, forget the rest of the team and everything else. Here's the question no one has answered yet;

Why did Carr throw the ball away after running past the line of scrimmage? You mean to tell me a 5 yr. NFL QB doesn't know where the line is, or doesn't know that once he runs past that line that he's gained the yardage, so he shouldn't throw the ball away?

Please, please, please...someone explain this to me.

TexansSeminole
12-11-2006, 05:37 PM
Ok, forget the rest of the team and everything else. Here's the question no one has answered yet;

Why did Carr throw the ball away after running past the line of scrimmage? You mean to tell me a 5 yr. NFL QB doesn't know where the line is, or doesn't know that once he runs past that line that he's gained the yardage, so he shouldn't throw the ball away?

Please, please, please...someone explain this to me.

Nothing to explain other than he isn't your typical QB or typical football player.

He's special.:secret:

Janus3
12-11-2006, 07:01 PM
Carr had the ball last in regulation. He could have "won" the game then against the NFL's statistically worst defense.

nope, vy did in regulation and couldn't win it. kubiak chose to play for ot. not carr's fault.

Janus3
12-11-2006, 07:10 PM
Ok, forget the rest of the team and everything else. Here's the question no one has answered yet;

Why did Carr throw the ball away after running past the line of scrimmage? You mean to tell me a 5 yr. NFL QB doesn't know where the line is, or doesn't know that once he runs past that line that he's gained the yardage, so he shouldn't throw the ball away?

Please, please, please...someone explain this to me.

isn't it obvious? they texans have no qb depth and can't afford him to get injured. not saying it was an ok mistake, but carr can't get injured. he ran saw he would take a tough hit and decided to throw it out of bounds. any other time he takes the hit and gets the first down.

TexansSeminole
11-13-2007, 11:51 AM
lol @ this thread.

Hagar
11-13-2007, 12:20 PM
Please close this thread.

You can even burn it if yo want too.

Texans Pride
11-13-2007, 12:22 PM
:locked:

gtexan02
11-13-2007, 12:24 PM
Wow bye weeks are boring

PapaL
11-13-2007, 12:24 PM
Somewhere David Carr just got sacked....again.

Hookem Horns
11-13-2007, 12:29 PM
This thread should have been labeled the Official "Carr on his back" thread.

Maddict5
11-13-2007, 12:33 PM
i think il start:

The Official "I want Carr back" thread :)

TexansSeminole
11-13-2007, 02:29 PM
Lol, my god some of these posts are just too funny.

Texan_Bill
11-13-2007, 02:31 PM
"The Official Carr back to Cali" thread

powerfuldragon
11-13-2007, 02:34 PM
NFL forum pls. i thought the days of that name sullying the team page were long gone... i know it'll never be a forgotten era, but still...

michaelm
11-13-2007, 02:55 PM
lol @ this thread.

Thanks for brining this up again...


... you are officially the first person I have ever disliked on a message board...

TexansSeminole
11-13-2007, 02:56 PM
Thanks for brining this up again...


... you are officially the first person I have ever disliked on a message board...

Haha, aw come on, it's funny. I think it's funny anyway. :user:

Carr Bombed
11-13-2007, 03:11 PM
It's been a year and my response is still the same........."beer".

YellerLotYeller
11-13-2007, 03:20 PM
I'm in

New_Texans
11-13-2007, 03:50 PM
*shakes head and hides in corner*

what was I smoking?

Tulip
11-13-2007, 03:58 PM
*shakes head and hides in corner*

what was I smoking?

Don't worry - we all had our own epiphany moments at different times.

Besides, David didn't truly prove any of us right until he changed uniforms.

Corrosion
11-13-2007, 03:59 PM
:beerfunnel: How bout someone just dig a hole and throw Carr and this thread in it ! .... And dont forget to cover it up ! :tearup:






:includeme:

hollywood_texan
11-13-2007, 05:12 PM
This is great!

What a laugh to go through this thread.

Put this thread on a sticky...

Honoring Earl 34
11-13-2007, 05:24 PM
*shakes head and hides in corner*

what was I smoking?

Some of you guys broke a baseball record in this thread .

It has something to do with how many times Yogi Berra was hit on the chin with baseballs .

TexanSam
11-13-2007, 05:25 PM
Boo! I never posted in this thread :(

adam
11-13-2007, 06:00 PM
Wow. It must be pretty embarassing to look back at this thread if you were a Carr lover.

TEXANRED
11-13-2007, 06:03 PM
Boo! I never posted in this thread :(

Hey neither did I. Oh wait, we both just did.

Honoring Earl 34
11-13-2007, 06:44 PM
Wow. It must be pretty embarassing to look back at this thread if you were a Carr lover.

Hmmm ... more fanatical than a Hannah Montana fan maybe .

brakos82
11-13-2007, 06:53 PM
:locked: :tearup: (insert other smilie here) :gun:

Runner
11-13-2007, 06:54 PM
I don't see the point in resurrecting this thread, especially since if we went back 2 more years, Carr was the hero of 98% of the people on this board.

It is interesting to look at this thread in relation to the Mario threads of today though.


“Those who cannot study history, are doomed to repeat it.” – George Santayana

brakos82
11-13-2007, 06:55 PM
Didn't Carr line up under the guard once? :shades:

My original typing was full of so many mistakes. :gun:

TexansSeminole
11-13-2007, 06:59 PM
I don't see the point in resurrecting this thread, especially since if we went back 2 more years, Carr was the hero of 98% of the people on this board.

It is interesting to look at this thread in relation to the Mario threads of today though.

I just thought it was kind of funny how things change so quickly.

Honoring Earl 34
11-13-2007, 07:01 PM
I just thought it was kind of funny how things change so quickly.

This thread was a response to a get rid of Carr thread .

TexansSeminole
11-13-2007, 07:02 PM
This thread was a response to a get rid of Carr thread .

I know, but this thread was still representative of alot of people, even during the middle of last season.

Texan_Bill
11-13-2007, 07:06 PM
I don't see the point in resurrecting this thread, especially since if we went back 2 more years, Carr was the hero of 98% of the people on this board.

It is interesting to look at this thread in relation to the Mario threads of today though.

Are you one of those people that can not accept when the masses admit they were wrong.... :cowboy1:

:jk:

Vinny
11-13-2007, 07:23 PM
I think everyone knows why I never posted in this thread. :pirate:

Texanmike02
11-13-2007, 07:35 PM
I'm all for digging up "this is an 9 or 10 win season threads from the beginning of the year."


Oh and for what its worth I still say WE RUINED CARR. He might not have been a probowler but I'm pretty sure whatever chance he had at making it in the nfl was dragged through the dirt, burned at the steak and the farted on by the C&C Crap factory we had running things here.

Mike

Vinny
11-13-2007, 07:38 PM
I'm all for digging up "this is an 9 or 10 win season threads from the beginning of the year."


Oh and for what its worth I still say WE RUINED CARR. He might not have been a probowler but I'm pretty sure whatever chance he had at making it in the nfl was dragged through the dirt, burned at the steak and the farted on by the C&C Crap factory we had running things here.

MikeI don't think we "ruined" him...it's possible he was bad the whole time here. I was villified back in 2003 for just stating what I was observing. If you notice, I was pointing out problems (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2319) with his game long before most of our fans were even trying to acknowledge he had any.

Tulip
11-13-2007, 07:51 PM
I wasn't very surprised to see my absence from this thread either.

Oh, how I miss the Fresno fans.

Wait - no I don't.

Texanmike02
11-13-2007, 07:57 PM
I don't think we "ruined" him...it's possible he was bad the whole time here. I was villified back in 2003 for just stating what I was observing. If you notice, I was pointing out problems (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2319) with his game long before most of our fans were even trying to acknowledge he had any.

Well there were several problems with that team. And I'm not saying he was a top 5 potential QB. At the same time, its well documented that he was told who to throw the ball to. He wasn't checking down from one receiver to the next etc. when he first came into the league. I think the coaching was horrible because not only did his decision making get worse, so did his accuracy and his touch. Go back and watch some of his early games. He was making rookie mistakes. He was holding onto the ball too long, but he was also throwing passes on target.

I remember several occasions early in his career when he made football decisions. By the end here, he was running for his life. There was a game against the Rams, I think, his rookie year when he was getting drug down in the end zone and managed to stretch the ball out and get it over the goal line as he was going down. That is a smart football play. I'm not saying he was a rocket scientist, but rather that I watched both his physical talents degrade and his IQ diminished every year. We talked bout him developing, but when a QB leaves a place and is a worse QB than when he arrived as a rookie.... that's not good.

Mike

Vinny
11-13-2007, 08:01 PM
Well there were several problems with that team. And I'm not saying he was a top 5 potential QB. At the same time, its well documented that he was told who to throw the ball to. He wasn't checking down from one receiver to the next etc. when he first came into the league. I think the coaching was horrible because not only did his decision making get worse, so did his accuracy and his touch. Go back and watch some of his early games. He was making rookie mistakes. He was holding onto the ball too long, but he was also throwing passes on target.

I remember several occasions early in his career when he made football decisions. By the end here, he was running for his life. There was a game against the Rams, I think, his rookie year when he was getting drug down in the end zone and managed to stretch the ball out and get it over the goal line as he was going down. That is a smart football play. I'm not saying he was a rocket scientist, but rather that I watched both his physical talents degrade and his IQ diminished every year. We talked bout him developing, but when a QB leaves a place and is a worse QB than when he arrived as a rookie.... that's not good.

Mike
I was talking about this to Infantry and Double Barrel the last few days...everyone wants to villify his old coaches for making his game plans mickey mouse and filling them full of hitch passes and limited reads. Fast forward to today and several people are trying to wrap their minds around Carr "regressing". I don't think he has regressed at all. I think that we had to structure little rinky dink high school game plans for him and keep him in a safe area where he could accomplish what he could so he didn't hurt the team. Fox hasn't scaled back Jake Delhomme's offense and Carr has been just miserable. He hasn't been protected (via scheme) and we all see how bad he looks when the offense isn't full of hitch passes and sideline mortar lob passes with nothing in the middle of the field or in the intermediate areas. Capers, Palmer, Kubiak and everyone else scaled back the offense to accommodate Carr's miserable game. Fox doesn't look like he knows Carr's limitations as much as Kubiak and capers did and it shows. Carr is a walking concussion in a full blown NFL offense.

Tulip
11-13-2007, 08:15 PM
Are we still making excuses for Carr? Really?

We can make a laundry list a mile long of things that David did to hurt himself. And plenty of good QBs have had some bad coaches at one point or another.

Why is this guy the only person who gets a pass on personal responsibility?

Specnatz
11-13-2007, 08:18 PM
:user:

Just because I am bored.

Oh and I never posted in this thread, which I have to admit seems odd.

Honoring Earl 34
11-13-2007, 08:27 PM
I don't think we "ruined" him...it's possible he was bad the whole time here. I was villified back in 2003 for just stating what I was observing. If you notice, I was pointing out problems (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2319) with his game long before most of our fans were even trying to acknowledge he had any.

I think the best clue for what was to come was Carr in the Senior Bowl . He played 3 series ... !st series ended when the ball was batted down . 2nd series he was sacked twice . 3rd drive stalled and he was done for the day .

Patrick Ramsey and Rohan Davie came in and put up a total of 40 something points . Carr never came back in .

You can read this by googling David Carr's senior Bowl diary .

Texanmike02
11-13-2007, 08:41 PM
I was talking about this to Infantry and Double Barrel the last few days...everyone wants to villify his old coaches for making his game plans mickey mouse and filling them full of hitch passes and limited reads. Fast forward to today and several people are trying to wrap their minds around Carr "regressing". I don't think he has regressed at all. I think that we had to structure little rinky dink high school game plans for him and keep him in a safe area where he could accomplish what he could so he didn't hurt the team. Fox hasn't scaled back Jake Delhomme's offense and Carr has been just miserable. He hasn't been protected (via scheme) and we all see how bad he looks when the offense isn't full of hitch passes and sideline mortar lob passes with nothing in the middle of the field or in the intermediate areas. Capers, Palmer, Kubiak and everyone else scaled back the offense to accommodate Carr's miserable game. Fox doesn't look like he knows Carr's limitations as much as Kubiak and capers did and it shows. Carr is a walking concussion in a full blown NFL offense.

Conversely after our change at the position, have we really improved that much? Sure from a sack standpoint, those numbers are down... Is the QB play that much better though? Schaub has been better in terms of awareness.. but his accuracy... terrible. Don't throw percentages at me.. watch games... is the ball placement right? Not even close.

Saying he is without fault is obviously wrong. I'm not suggesting he was great.. we were all wrong about that. But he did regress. You're right, they never should have scaled down the playbook. He didn't do the things to prepare either. Then again, why didn't we require it of him? Why didn't Capers inundate him with a ton of work? We forget, this was a KID when he was handed the keys to the franchise. We made some bad decisions as a franchise. I never thought he should have started from day one. I felt like we shouldn't have simplified the offense for him. We made mistakes in how we handled him. Is he responsible for sucking now? Sure. Does that mean we didn't make any mistakes? Hell no. Oh and we (ok so the F/O not us personally) need to learn from that. You can sit there and hate the guy, love the guy I don't care...

Vilify the coaches? Maybe I'm too hard on them for that but if you take a 22 year old throw him a tonne of money and hand him the keys to the franchise... I think you have to prepare him for it. Is he responsible for not going in extra hours? Sure... Is it his fault he didn't mature? Yes... Should he have asked for extra work to get ready? Of course. If I'm running the franchise though, I definitely place alot of that at the HCs place as well. That's the guy who you brought in because he is "the consummate professional". I expect him to pass some of that on.


Label me a Carr apologist. I just want to learn from our mistakes. Oh and go back and look at my record. If I think I'm wrong I'll say it. I don't mind it. I'll even go back and critique myself if I'm way off. Also its not like I'm a huge "homer" fan. I think I'm as objective as anyone on this board and have no idea why I would change that for one player.


By the way though. Capers first QB? Kerry Collins.

Vin.. hope this doesn't come off angry... read Tulip's little "when does he take responsibility" comment and am tired of defending my stance that its possible to analyze the mistakes we made with out being complete apologist.


Mike

Tulip
11-13-2007, 08:55 PM
As for the improvement in the QB situation, try looking at things like the increase in Andre's YPC or the fact that Andre Davis has caught multiple 40 yard catches (with no/little yards after catch). Anyone with eyes can see that the QB situation has drastically improved over this season. Does Schaub make his mistakes and do I notice them? Heck yeah. But that doesn't mean that I'm not still relieved over the Schaub trade. What would have been the better alternative?

TEXANRED
11-13-2007, 09:02 PM
I don't think we "ruined" him...it's possible he was bad the whole time here. I was villified back in 2003 for just stating what I was observing. If you notice, I was pointing out problems (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2319) with his game long before most of our fans were even trying to acknowledge he had any.

You also think VY is a good QB. Your batting .500, thats nothing to be ashamed of.:)

Vinny
11-13-2007, 09:06 PM
You also think VY is a good QB. Your batting .500, thats nothing to be ashamed of.:)Funny how some fans are amazingly inconsistent...they want to give Carr 5 years to develop but can't stand to see Young get 2. You probably think he has to play at a pro bowl level right away because he isn't on your team...well, it doesn't work like that. I don't sit in those Young threads and pound away that he is all that in his sophomore year so why bring that up with me? I'm not an apologist for Young and I am not squatting on this board or any other board trying to convince you he is having a good year. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

TEXANRED
11-13-2007, 09:13 PM
Funny how some fans are amazingly inconsistent...they want to give Carr 5 years to develop but can't stand to see Young get 2. You probably think he has to play at a pro bowl level right away because he isn't on your team...well, it doesn't work like that. I don't sit in those Young threads and pound away that he is all that in his sophomore year so why bring that up with me? I'm not an apologist for Young and I am not squatting on this board or any other board trying to convince you he is having a good year. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

C'mon now, that was funny. Admit it, you smiled a little.

OK so maybe not funny to you but I laughed.

Maybe my wife is right, maybe I am not that funny.

Na.

Vinny
11-13-2007, 09:25 PM
ok, I'll admit that you're hilarious.:cool:

Runner
11-13-2007, 09:48 PM
Are you one of those people that can not accept when the masses admit they were wrong.... :cowboy1:

:jk:

Nah - just one of those people that laugh at those that go back just far enough to prove they were right and no farther. Pretty revisionist. Unless I am to believe that everyone knew Carr was bad from day one.

Brandon420tx
11-13-2007, 10:11 PM
:hides: After I made a fool of myself defending Carr for 2 and a half years, I've tried to make it a point to not comment about players and their abilities untill I learn some more in depth football knowledge. I can't apologize enough to people like Doug from the Woodlands a.k.a. Second Honeymoon for trying to help me escape my blind homerism.



That said, I think Faggins sucks :winky:

adam
11-13-2007, 10:20 PM
Nah - just one of those people that laugh at those that go back just far enough to prove they were right and no farther. Pretty revisionist. Unless I am to believe that everyone knew Carr was bad from day one.

I think alot of people knew and just didn't want to admit it, seeing as how he was supposed to lead the franchise. There's a little bit of a homer in every fan. Anyone could have noticed Carr's glaring faults before he even took a snap in the NFL. His poor mechanics, the way he feels imaginary pressure, the way he locks onto one receiver, the way he is reluctant to throw the ball more than 3 yards down the field. Carr, despite good college stats, was never a phenomenal NFL prospect.

Honoring Earl 34
11-13-2007, 10:39 PM
I think the biggest problem was that one of his greatest fans was Bob McNair .

Texanmike02
11-13-2007, 10:48 PM
As for the improvement in the QB situation, try looking at things like the increase in Andre's YPC or the fact that Andre Davis has caught multiple 40 yard catches (with no/little yards after catch). Anyone with eyes can see that the QB situation has drastically improved over this season. Does Schaub make his mistakes and do I notice them? Heck yeah. But that doesn't mean that I'm not still relieved over the Schaub trade. What would have been the better alternative?
As for the "improvement" at QB position. It has been marginal. And by saying that, I was calling for Schaub (even as a "Carr excuser") before last season was over. I wasn't blind to the fact that Carr wasn't the answer. That something had to change. Other than AJ and Mathis who have a combined 15 catches, nobody on our team has a decent YAC average. Oh and its going down. I love Schaub but we have yet to fix any of the problems that I believe ensured that Carr would not succeed. I think that many of Carr's problems were brought on by poor protection. We have a better QB no doubt. I agree with that. But we're not getting much better play out of the QB. Know why? We still haven't fixed the protection.

Its possible to acknowledge that Carr was handled horribly, hold him responsible for the failures that were his AND evaluate what went wrong that the Texans could change.

Mike

GP
11-14-2007, 06:39 PM
What I find funny is this: Roughly halfway through last season, MOST of the fans on this thread were actually very satisfied with David Carr.

I saw the words "improving" among other words, with even Kaiser Toro saying that he saw "improvement" in Carr. Not saying that KT was endorsing DC or anything...but it's in black & white where KT says he saw DC improve a little.

But the over-arching issue here is this: No amount of improvement that DC made, or will make as a Panther QB, matters.

He doesn't have the "it" factor. I know our line is marginal, but Schaub and Sage have shown they can work around it. I think, to be honest, that our big chill we experienced between the Panthers game and up until the Oakland game, was due to NOT being able to run the ball.

If we run the ball, we instantly become a very good team all the way around: The pass seems to work well, we eat up the clock and keep opposing defenses on the field longer, and our own defense gets to rest ad I think they make more plays when they know it's not always "on them."

DC was the KING of the 3-and-out. Period. Whether it was fumbling, getting the ball batted down at the line, or simply being incapable of reading and reacting during a play...David was a drive killer.

Yes, he occasionally hit the home run ball. You're going to do that every now and then. It's possible to catch someone sleeping.

But I see two QBs (Sage and Schaub) who just seem to have something David didn't. It's a certain "acumen" whereby they are utilizing a logical sequence of critical thinking: They have a plan, and they are trying to follow it.

With David, it seems that the huddle breaks and he's already off the game plan. He's gone AWOL. He's made his mind up that the "called play" is not going to work. He's feeling, before the snap, as if HE is going to have to do something on his own to make it work.

I fault, mostly, the head coaching and playcalling for this--Those goobers had ZERO strategy. Kubiak and his staff are not top-notch yet...but they are leaps and bounds ahead of Capers. David learned early on that his best chances lay with HIM improvising: The tuck and run, the leap over the pile for the TD, the naked bootlegs near the goal line. David felt David was the best chance to win. Without DD, there's an element of undrstanding here. A productive running game sure seems to help everybody.

But all of this speculating as to the "why?" is not as important as this factor: Tom Brady led a Patriots team to their first Super Bowl win and I don't think that team was necessarily "stacked" with talent. Tom Brady has proven that Tom Brady is perhaps the biggest reason why the team is a perennial contender. He met Mr. Kraft in the Patriots parking lot at sunrise, after he had been selected very late in the draft, and walked up to the man and said, "I want you to know that you will not regret picking me."

That's it. No big rah-rah speech in front of the team. No fan fare and loud-mouthing, cocky show-off stuff. Just a hard-nosed guy who vowed to be what he knew he was.

Contrast this to David Carr: A guy who wears gloves because he might get germs from the center's boody. A guy who is well-gelled and always having "fun" in the NFL. A guy who almost EVERY teammate has said just leaves the facility and goes home...not staying and trying to build a rapport with his fellow warriors.

We can talk all year about this. We can speculate the "what ifs" until we get hand cramps from typing.

Fact is this: David Carr is not going to make it.

And I don't think that history needs to be re-written with little footnotes that say "*Please note that David Carr would have been a Hall of Fame Quarterback had he been provided a better offensive line."

That, IMO, is an insult to the basic football intelligence of the ordinary fan.

David Carr has not, and will not, possess the "it" factor that allows him to take a team onto his shoulders and make them better.

BSofA04
11-14-2007, 06:46 PM
Great post GP. Pretty much sums up how I feel about the guy.

Texans_Chick
11-14-2007, 06:54 PM
*This is not a David Carr apologist post but rather an observation*

The other day Steve McKinney was talking to John and Lance about the horrible 2005 season. He was talking about how divisive Pendry was, and how Pendry almost left because of his lack of input in the offense. That it is a bad situation when the coaches can agree on things. And that the offense became really basic after Pendry was running it.

He wasn't an apologist for Palmer though. He said that Carr and McKinney privately talked about his concern about all the option routes in the offense. McKinney talked about how he was the only experienced guy on that line, playing a new position, yet Palmer had all these option routes that made Carr hold the ball until the WR decided where to make his break based on the positioning of the safety. McKinney said that with a completely developmental line, rookie QB, and inexperienced receivers, having all those option routes was a recipe for some very bad things.


Disclaimer: *Once again, I am not getting Carr off the hook but rather just stating this stuff for some historical completeness.*


As for Carr's last year performance, I think he played to the maximum of his potential under Kubiak, and Kubiak cut bait when he realized the extent of Carr's physical and mental limitations.

GP
11-14-2007, 06:57 PM
Great post GP. Pretty much sums up how I feel about the guy.

It's natural to try and figure out the "why?" behind everything.

It's human. We're a people who thrive on figuring out the problem.

But often, there's just no tangible explanation as to why certain players are just better than most others.

I tried to debate this topic a long time ago, and I actually felt that David was getting shafted the whole time he was here. And then one day, it just clicked for me: I was wrong. The guy is hopelessly lost. Forgot "why?"...it doesn't matter in the end.

Game over. Time to frame the jersey and hang it in the kids' gameroom. Time to look for the cushy broadcast analyst booth. David's pretty face will be gracing a TV set on Sundays, you can bank on it. :gun:

hollywood_texan
11-14-2007, 07:33 PM
*This is not a David Carr apologist post but rather an observation*

The other day Steve McKinney was talking to John and Lance about the horrible 2005 season. He was talking about how divisive Pendry was, and how Pendry almost left because of his lack of input in the offense. That it is a bad situation when the coaches can agree on things. And that the offense became really basic after Pendry was running it.

He wasn't an apologist for Palmer though. He said that Carr and McKinney privately talked about his concern about all the option routes in the offense. McKinney talked about how he was the only experienced guy on that line, playing a new position, yet Palmer had all these option routes that made Carr hold the ball until the WR decided where to make his break based on the positioning of the safety. McKinney said that with a completely developmental line, rookie QB, and inexperienced receivers, having all those option routes was a recipe for some very bad things.


Disclaimer: *Once again, I am not getting Carr off the hook but rather just stating this stuff for some historical completeness.*


As for Carr's last year performance, I think he played to the maximum of his potential under Kubiak, and Kubiak cut bait when he realized the extent of Carr's physical and mental limitations.

Why is it that an offensive lineman understands this while it's happening and Carr can't:

A: Figure it out for himself and
B: Speak up and bring something too the table.

Carr's problem was either he didn't have the football brain or desire to win/do what it takes. It was probably both...

TC, you have clearly demonstrated with this historical perspective, that Carr was not a leader or take charge kind of guy at the Texans. Those are probably the single most important qualities of a QB.

My point is, it's stories like this that show Carr was so way in over his head. It was his career too, and he took no initiative to build his career at Houston outside of getting a haircut.

Vinny
11-14-2007, 07:48 PM
*This is not a David Carr apologist post but rather an observation*

The other day Steve McKinney was talking to John and Lance about the horrible 2005 season. He was talking about how divisive Pendry was, and how Pendry almost left because of his lack of input in the offense. That it is a bad situation when the coaches can agree on things. And that the offense became really basic after Pendry was running it.

He wasn't an apologist for Palmer though. He said that Carr and McKinney privately talked about his concern about all the option routes in the offense. McKinney talked about how he was the only experienced guy on that line, playing a new position, yet Palmer had all these option routes that made Carr hold the ball until the WR decided where to make his break based on the positioning of the safety. McKinney said that with a completely developmental line, rookie QB, and inexperienced receivers, having all those option routes was a recipe for some very bad things.


Disclaimer: *Once again, I am not getting Carr off the hook but rather just stating this stuff for some historical completeness.*


As for Carr's last year performance, I think he played to the maximum of his potential under Kubiak, and Kubiak cut bait when he realized the extent of Carr's physical and mental limitations.
eh, High School teams run option routes...its the foundation to the June Jones offense in Hawaii and the TT offense in Lubbock (College kids)....don't really buy it as an excuse. Palmer did well everywhere else he coached but he was a bad coach with Carr? Yeah, right.

Carr Bombed
11-14-2007, 08:00 PM
eh, High School teams run option routes...its the foundation to the June Jones offense in Hawaii and the TT offense in Lubbock (College kids)....don't really buy it as an excuse. Palmer did well everywhere else he coached but he was a bad coach with Carr? Yeah, right.

Yeah, Palmer is the guy that helped bring Romo along and last I looked his game certainly wasn't hurt by meeting Chris Palmer

Texans_Chick
11-14-2007, 08:06 PM
eh, High School teams run option routes...its the foundation to the June Jones offense in Hawaii and the TT offense in Lubbock (College kids)....don't really buy it as an excuse. Palmer did well everywhere else he coached but he was a bad coach with Carr? Yeah, right.

LZ said that Palmer had this same problem with the Browns--that Tim Couch took more abuse than he should have with the option routes.

The problem with the option routes as McKinney explained it is you have to wait until the receiver runs 15 yards before you know where to throw it, you are going to have problems when you have a baby offensive line, baby receivers and a baby QB--you just don't have time against NFL defenses.

When McKinney was talking about this, it wasn't a Carr apology but rather in response to LZ asking about Palmer's schemes hurting Couch and whether there were similar issues when Palmer was play calling for the Texans. Unfortunately, 1560 doesn't have the Podcast saved.

LZ is the last one to let Carr off the hook--he was just asking questions about Palmer and Pendry and the awful 2005 season.

Vinny
11-14-2007, 08:40 PM
sure "a" receiver may have to run 15 yards but you also have dump options and short routes. Palmer was fine with Bledsoe in his best years in NE, with Brunell's high flying Jaguar offense (one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL) and now with Romo....but his scheme takes a QB who can think. Couch had good to decent numbers and the Browns had miserable talent in their first two years (just look at their really awful expansion draft and real draft) but he injured his shoulder and really wasn't all that tough to begin with.

Tulip
11-14-2007, 10:03 PM
I heard that discussion as well, and McKinney did say that those were the reasons that the 2002 season was so rough. He said that Palmer did adjust the offense the following year with 3 step drops, etc.

McKinney also said that he thought Capers fired Palmer to try to "win back the fans". And that Pendry was in the middle (perhaps insinuating that Pendry was the cause) of a lot of tension and dissent amongst the coaching staff.

He also spent a lot of time discussing David Carr and Peyton Manning, and while not directly trying to compare/contrast, each story could easily show why their careers are so different.

He said Peyton would have 5 or 6 options to change to at the line of scrimmage from his rookie year. And he would change the call about 50% of them time. And his responsibilities increased over time. He also said that Peyton is completely obsessive about football and that's probably why he doesn't have children yet. He agreed with John and Lance that this obsession is what makes the difference in the end.

They also talked about leadership, the aggressive kind and the leading-by-example kind. McKinney acknowledged that in order for people to want to follow you, you have to work harder than everyone else.

David is who he is. If he just had more instinct and more athleticism, he may have made it a little farther than he did. Because the work ethic and the motivation just weren't there, he just never lived up to his hype. Hey, it was a weak draft.

Napa Auto Parts
11-14-2007, 10:30 PM
this thread has to be the best of all time I GOT Carr's Back:texflag:

Runner
11-14-2007, 11:38 PM
The other day Steve McKinney was talking to John and Lance about the horrible 2005 season. He was talking about how divisive Pendry was, and how Pendry almost left because of his lack of input in the offense. That it is a bad situation when the coaches can agree on things. And that the offense became really basic after Pendry was running it.


Wow. I always said Pendry and politics did as much to hurt this team as anything; I'm surprised a player has finally come out and said it in public. That guy killed a good deal on potential in this team with his petty politics and favoritism.

He wasn't an apologist for Palmer though. He said that Carr and McKinney privately talked about his concern about all the option routes in the offense. McKinney talked about how he was the only experienced guy on that line, playing a new position, yet Palmer had all these option routes that made Carr hold the ball until the WR decided where to make his break based on the positioning of the safety. McKinney said that with a completely developmental line, rookie QB, and inexperienced receivers, having all those option routes was a recipe for some very bad things.


Yep. On the surface Palmer's offense was pretty simple, but in play it was very complex - it required a lot of in-sync reading and reacting among the receivers and quarterbacks. The way I heard it, the only QB on the team that understood the nuances of the system was Dave Ragone. Too bad he never got a chance to try his hand on the field, as career after career was sacrificed on the alter of David Carr.

Kaiser Toro
11-15-2007, 08:24 AM
At first glance I thought this was an auction of Carr parts. I definitely wanted dibs on the gloves.

Those five years got medieval on Texan fan's arses. The Carr Age was full of futility, disease, high beer prices, no port a potties in the parking lot and a wandering horde of e-Thugs from the West, the Fresno 15.

Whether it is the Sage of Ames or Schaub under center our passing game is exponentially better.

Texans_Chick
11-15-2007, 09:31 AM
I heard that discussion as well, and McKinney did say that those were the reasons that the 2002 season was so rough. He said that Palmer did adjust the offense the following year with 3 step drops, etc.

McKinney also said that he thought Capers fired Palmer to try to "win back the fans". And that Pendry was in the middle (perhaps insinuating that Pendry was the cause) of a lot of tension and dissent amongst the coaching staff.

He also spent a lot of time discussing David Carr and Peyton Manning, and while not directly trying to compare/contrast, each story could easily show why their careers are so different.

He said Peyton would have 5 or 6 options to change to at the line of scrimmage from his rookie year. And he would change the call about 50% of them time. And his responsibilities increased over time. He also said that Peyton is completely obsessive about football and that's probably why he doesn't have children yet. He agreed with John and Lance that this obsession is what makes the difference in the end.

They also talked about leadership, the aggressive kind and the leading-by-example kind. McKinney acknowledged that in order for people to want to follow you, you have to work harder than everyone else.

David is who he is. If he just had more instinct and more athleticism, he may have made it a little farther than he did. Because the work ethic and the motivation just weren't there, he just never lived up to his hype. Hey, it was a weak draft.

Nice summary.

I'm going to ask them to put McKinney's segments in the audio vault. It was about the most honest discussion of the Pendry/Palmer thing I've heard.

Double Barrel
11-15-2007, 11:35 AM
No offense, but I can't find McKinney all that credible with regards to being objective about Carr. I doubt SM would ever truly break down his buddy's play, either because he's too close to the subject and/or he won't throw a good friend "under the bus".

My take is that Carr would have sucked wherever he landed (think Brian Griese) and whatever QB we had in our first season (if it wasn't DC) would have suffered behind that line. It is quite possible that both the line and Carr were just bad. A match made in hell.


btw, my first (and most likely last) post in this thread. Talking about David Carr = :deadhorse

TexansSeminole
11-15-2007, 11:41 AM
No offense, but I can't find McKinney all that credible with regards to being objective about Carr. I doubt SM would ever truly break down his buddy's play, either because he's too close to the subject and/or he won't throw a good friend "under the bus".

My take is that Carr would have sucked wherever he landed (think Brian Griese) and whatever QB we had in our first season (if it wasn't DC) would have suffered behind that line. It is quite possible that both the line and Carr were just bad. A match made in hell.


btw, my first (and most likely last) post in this thread. Talking about David Carr = :deadhorse

I agree with you DB. I don't understand this whole "we ruined him" approach. The guy just isn't an NFL football player. Sure he could play at Fresno State in the WAC conference, but the guy just wasn't NFL material.

Texans_Chick
11-15-2007, 12:12 PM
No offense, but I can't find McKinney all that credible with regards to being objective about Carr. I doubt SM would ever truly break down his buddy's play, either because he's too close to the subject and/or he won't throw a good friend "under the bus".

My take is that Carr would have sucked wherever he landed (think Brian Griese) and whatever QB we had in our first season (if it wasn't DC) would have suffered behind that line. It is quite possible that both the line and Carr were just bad. A match made in hell.


btw, my first (and most likely last) post in this thread. Talking about David Carr = :deadhorse

He was pretty harsh on DC. Basically, I liked him as a guy, but implied football player not so much. Most of that came out when he was talking about playing with Peyton Manning and what Manning did to prepare.

He was just talking a lot about the history of what went down. I really don't think any rookie quarterback would have had success with what the Texans brought to the table in 2002. But I don't believe with what I know now that DC would have had success anywhere, partially because of his mechanics but mostly because of his nickle head and lack of QB good sense.

TexansSeminole
11-15-2007, 02:20 PM
But I don't believe with what I know now that DC would have had success anywhere, partially because of his mechanics but mostly because of his nickle head and lack of QB good sense.

I remember when he was a rookie he gave this interview that had me really wondering how smart he really was. I remember not being able to figure out if he was joking around, or if he really was a pinhead.

Honoring Earl 34
11-15-2007, 03:09 PM
I think a good QB can play in any system . Warren Moon had great success with the Oilers but he had some monster years with the Vikings also .

I think some systems make a QB look better than he is . This really applies in college ... see Florida QBs .

I think they put Carr in a system that they thought he could handle . You pick a QB #1 overall assuming he's the real deal . Part of being the real deal is not only physical , it's being a smart , driven player who can grasp most offenses .

dalemurphy
11-15-2007, 03:52 PM
eh, High School teams run option routes...its the foundation to the June Jones offense in Hawaii and the TT offense in Lubbock (College kids)....don't really buy it as an excuse. Palmer did well everywhere else he coached but he was a bad coach with Carr? Yeah, right.

QBs developed by Chris Palmer:

Drew Bledsoe
Mark Brunell
Rob Johnson
Tim Couch
David Carr


All those guys, even the successful ones (Bledsoe, Brunell), have a tendency to hold on to the ball way to long and have all taken a physical pounding in their respective careers. I doubt that's simply coincidence.

Vinny
11-15-2007, 05:11 PM
QBs developed by Chris Palmer:

Drew Bledsoe
Mark Brunell
Rob Johnson
Tim Couch
David Carr


All those guys, even the successful ones (Bledsoe, Brunell), have a tendency to hold on to the ball way to long and have all taken a physical pounding in their respective careers. I doubt that's simply coincidence.probably some wild coincidence that some of their better years were with Palmer huh?

dalemurphy
11-15-2007, 05:27 PM
probably some wild coincidence that some of their better years were with Palmer huh?

I'm not arguing that he's inept, simply that I byproduct of what he teaches and/or his system is that his students hold on to the ball a long time.

hollywood_texan
11-15-2007, 06:16 PM
But I don't believe with what I know now that DC would have had success anywhere, partially because of his mechanics but mostly because of his nickle head and lack of QB good sense.

Wow, I am almost in a state of shock for two reasons:

1. I agree with you and

2. You actually said it.

What a difference a year makes.

Texans_Chick
11-15-2007, 07:42 PM
Wow, I am almost in a state of shock for two reasons:

1. I agree with you and

2. You actually said it.

What a difference a year makes.

I never said that David Carr was mensa. I didn't want his option to be taken. In fact, I said as much on talk radio that was aired on ESPN. But once it was, I wanted to give the Texans some time to see what they could do with him under a new system because at that point he was going to be the guy. I am not a QB coach, nor do I pretend to be one on the internets.

As bad as it was with DC last year, the Texans did him no favors with the running back situation. And they run the risk of getting their QBs killed this year for the same reasons. I'm not saying DC = Schaub, Rosenfels, for the obvious reasons.

Throughout the years, I wrote all sorts of things about Carr's shortcomings.

Most of my objections with what you write is a matter of tone and realism. I don't think what you write often is fair in tone or realistic.

All players and coaches have good points and bad points. Because they are human and most people do. Some people see things in just black and white. I see a lot of gray, and I also know it is easier to criticize than create.

hollywood_texan
11-15-2007, 08:00 PM
I never said that David Carr was mensa. I didn't want his option to be taken. In fact, I said as much on talk radio that was aired on ESPN. But once it was, I wanted to give the Texans some time to see what they could do with him under a new system because at that point he was going to be the guy. I am not a QB coach, nor do I pretend to be one on the internets.

As bad as it was with DC last year, the Texans did him no favors with the running back situation. And they run the risk of getting their QBs killed this year for the same reasons. I'm not saying DC = Schaub, Rosenfels, for the obvious reasons.

Throughout the years, I wrote all sorts of things about Carr's shortcomings.

Most of my objections with what you write is a matter of tone and realism. I don't think what you write often is fair in tone or realistic.

All players and coaches have good points and bad points. Because they are human and most people do. Some people see things in just black and white. I see a lot of gray, and I also know it is easier to criticize than create.

The only thing I know of you is what you have posted on this board. Whatever you have done with blogs, espn radio, or anything else, I have not read nor followed in anyway.

My point was really the round and round motion we have had on every thing, not just Carr.

It was really meant as a joke and to laugh about in retrospect. The last thing I expected was a detailed analysis and discussion.

But, to respond to your critique that my comments typically are not fair and not realistic, I will say two things in response:

1. Nothing is ever fair, and
2. Reality is tainted by your own perceptions.

As I have learned, some people like my straight to the point-cut to the chase analysis and some people don't. I am what I am...

You be you, and I'll be me... As Joe Texan says, "That's what I do."

GP
11-15-2007, 08:53 PM
I remember when he was a rookie he gave this interview that had me really wondering how smart he really was. I remember not being able to figure out if he was joking around, or if he really was a pinhead.

Well, I would say that if we ran a compilation of all his media inteviews, running them back-to-back-to-back....it'd be sort of like a Yogi Berra situation.

Except Yogi is doing it for kicks. I think.

He just looks so darned good in the whole QB costume, and he looks so commanding on the practice field...it's hard for coaches to let the guy go because they keep thinking there's something there.

I'm a model, you know what I mean. And I do my little turn on the catwalk. On the catwalk. Yeah, on the catwalk....

Joe Texan
11-15-2007, 09:18 PM
CARR sucs

Honoring Earl 34
11-15-2007, 10:09 PM
I'm a model, you know what I mean. And I do my little turn on the catwalk. On the catwalk. Yeah, on the catwalk....


It's time to close the thread when Right Said Fred's lyrics are being used in an NFL conversation .