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View Full Version : This OL still needs MAJOR help


DomDavis
11-26-2006, 03:39 PM
A lot of people are questioning the playcalling of screens... others are questioning Carr for taking the dumpoffs... the reality is, we don't have an offensive line capable of sustaining pass protection long enough to let these plays develop. We don't have an offensive line capable of opening up running lanes at all.

I don't think it's reasonable to say we have our "bookend" tackles of the future in Spencer and Winston. Both had flashes, sure, but Spencer in his couple of games and now Winston have had plenty of blunders as well. There's a reason they were third round draft choices. Odds are both won't pan out. I hope they will - and maybe we'll get lucky - but imo, we don't need to plan the future based on that.

We certainly don't need to be talking about Adrian Peterson or Steve Slaton at this point... I don't think Barry Sanders in his prime could've done anything with the lanes today. This team still lacks the necessary talent upfront, and to me, that's where I'd use this first round pick. We need elite talent there. Yes, we need a second corner... but I'd guess it'd be easier to address the corner position via FA than OT or OG.

Ibar_Harry
11-26-2006, 03:42 PM
Yep, Seth Wand really looks good now. Oh, that's right we got rid of him. Oh, well, you reap what you sow. Good luck on improving this line this year...........

brewhaus
11-26-2006, 03:43 PM
A lot of people are questioning the playcalling of screens... others are questioning Carr for taking the dumpoffs... the reality is, we don't have an offensive line capable of sustaining pass protection long enough to let these plays develop. We don't have an offensive line capable of opening up running lanes at all.

I don't think it's reasonable to say we have our "bookend" tackles of the future in Spencer and Winston. Both had flashes, sure, but Spencer in his couple of games and now Winston have had plenty of blunders as well. There's a reason they were third round draft choices. Odds are both won't pan out. I hope they will - and maybe we'll get lucky - but imo, we don't need to plan the future based on that.

We certainly don't need to be talking about Adrian Peterson or Steve Slaton at this point... I don't think Barry Sanders in his prime could've done anything with the lanes today. This team still lacks the necessary talent upfront, and to me, that's where I'd use this first round pick. We need elite talent there. Yes, we need a second corner... but I'd guess it'd be easier to address the corner position via FA than OT or OG.

Dom, our O-Line should be top priority this coming off season. Followed very closely by our D-Backs.....and then, lets not forget our outside linebackers.
Needless to say, we have some building to do.

DomDavis
11-26-2006, 03:48 PM
See the blitz? Dude, this isn't just happening when the other team blitzes. It's happening when they rush three or four guys. In the running game, we can't even open up enough of a hole to get 2-3 yards. This offensive line just isn't talented. There's no QB in the world who can open up this running game. It's the talent, or lack thereof.

Runner
11-26-2006, 03:50 PM
The o-line is not the problem, Carr is too dumb to see the blitz!!!! 5 linemen can't block 7 rushers, Carr has to recognize the blitz and call the hot route fade pass. Carr is the problem, he is to stupid to be playing NFL QB

I saw two times when a rusher beat a double team to get to Carr with pressure. Once Winston/Weary, once Weary/Flanagan. There may have been more. The line is as bad as Carr.

Hervoyel
11-26-2006, 04:11 PM
I'm optimistic about Spencer and Winston but obviously right now we're in a bad place as far as our offensive line is concerned. We're starting Salaam who probably shouldn't be in football at this point of his career and Winston who was projected to sit behind someone who was ready to start this year and then contend for a spot next season (or at least provide high quality depth then). Does anyone think Weigert would have made the team if we had a healthy and deep offensive line?

Of the two tackles we took in the third round I expect one of them to be a starter for us and if the other one pans out too then that's outstanding but I'm not counting on it.

We're in transition on the line. Spencer going down hurt us bad. Weigert was so bad at RT that I don't really think Winston is any kind of dropoff at all. Expect them to add more linemen this coming off-season either through free agency, the draft, or both.

TexanFanInCC
11-26-2006, 04:13 PM
A lot of people are questioning the playcalling of screens... others are questioning Carr for taking the dumpoffs... the reality is, we don't have an offensive line capable of sustaining pass protection long enough to let these plays develop. We don't have an offensive line capable of opening up running lanes at all.

I don't think it's reasonable to say we have our "bookend" tackles of the future in Spencer and Winston. Both had flashes, sure, but Spencer in his couple of games and now Winston have had plenty of blunders as well. There's a reason they were third round draft choices. Odds are both won't pan out. I hope they will - and maybe we'll get lucky - but imo, we don't need to plan the future based on that.

We certainly don't need to be talking about Adrian Peterson or Steve Slaton at this point... I don't think Barry Sanders in his prime could've done anything with the lanes today. This team still lacks the necessary talent upfront, and to me, that's where I'd use this first round pick. We need elite talent there. Yes, we need a second corner... but I'd guess it'd be easier to address the corner position via FA than OT or OG.

the o-line is not the problem.

edo783
11-26-2006, 04:20 PM
The TOTAL out put by the running backs was a wopping 15 yards. Yes, 15 freakin yards.

Scooter
11-26-2006, 04:28 PM
once again we're saying it. this time we cant really blame the coaches however because we drafted 2 tackles on the first day and brought in a proven commodity at center. we're still just simply not talented enough. spencer IMO is the best draft pick we made last year and it hurts that he's not playing, i REALLY hope he can return to form next year. flanagan i like, but he's obviously lost some steps. pitts isnt bad, he's starter quality. EVERYONE ELSE IS A BACKUP AT BEST. mckinney & weigert are done. winston's not ready. weary's a career backup. salaam's terrible. bedell's no good. that gives us maybe 3 starters on the line ... one's out right now and the another's past his prime. flanagan's replacement needs to be getting groomed to take over sometime next season. we have to draft atleast 2 more linemen next year (atleast one of which needs to be early first day) and try to sign a starter in FA.

i've been saying it for a couple of years ... domanick davis made our run blocking look good. gary kubiak's keeping it afloat this year, but we simply dont have enough talent on the line to fully implement his running system. runningbacks arent our problem, getting them room to make that one cut & go is what's holding us back.

that being said. i'm going to blast carr after defending him only 2 days ago. he had time on the majority of his throws and i cant see the game tape so i'm not sure if the receivers just werent getting open or what, but he couldnt find anybody after the opening drive for more than a quick dumpoff. i especially liked the PA 7 step drops where he had tons of time, but never threw the ball. if carr doesnt start finding those holes 15-20 yards down the field (that pennington exploited) i'll be calling for his head soon also.

awtysst
11-26-2006, 04:34 PM
the o-line is not the problem.

YES, the O-Line is a MAJOR problem.

DeclanJr
11-26-2006, 05:05 PM
The o-line is a major problem and if you don't see that then you aren't watching. Yes Lundy looked like he didn't have his head up on a couple of runs, but by and large there were no running lanes today. If we aren't allowing our wide receivers time to get open or we are having to keep a tight end on the line to help block, then we are limited in the passing game. I must add that I have been and still am a "carr hater" on this board, but let's be honest, the line needs some help!

nunusguy
11-26-2006, 05:15 PM
A lot of people are questioning the playcalling of screens... others are questioning Carr for taking the dumpoffs... the reality is, we don't have an offensive line capable of sustaining pass protection long enough to let these plays develop. We don't have an offensive line capable of opening up running lanes at all.

This is the bottom line (no pun intended). This filters down thru all other aspects of the offense.

IshouldbeGM
11-26-2006, 05:21 PM
the o-line is not the problem....the qb needs to have better pocket presence. We seen today how Pennington was able to feel the rush and avoid it and make plays and who does he have at wr or runningback that we should be scared of, just make plays, thats what its all about. All they have is coles at wr, we have johnson and moulds....we have a solid te in daniels....the qb needs to make plays!!

FanFromCali
11-26-2006, 05:31 PM
You could have the best QB in the world and the best RB in the world but they will not be able to do much without a good O-line. How good a team's line is dictates what they can do on offense, period.

The Texans O-line needs major help in the off season. The team has a couple of pieces but it needs more. The team will never be able to compete until this problem is addressed.

Off season goals:

1. O-line
2. DB
3. OLB
4. Smash the Titans

Runner
11-26-2006, 05:48 PM
the o-line is not the problem....the qb needs to have better pocket presence.

Carr has poor pocket presence on good o-line days. Today it was hard for him to demonstrate any since the entire line was collapsing leaving him no place to "presence" into.

The Houston Texans - Our Pocket Fits Like A Glove

Hervoyel
11-26-2006, 05:50 PM
In the first half I thought he looked very good. Not one of those drives in the first half died because of a David Carr mistake. Every one of them failed because someone else blew their assignment. In the second half David cratered instead of pulling the team together and he was just as much a problem as the rest of them.

First two quarters though he looked pretty sharp to me.

Wolf
11-26-2006, 05:58 PM
blows my mind after 5 years our line is not set and been a revolving door since day one.

Boselli,Seth Wand,Todd Wade,RyanYoung,Milford Brown,expansion draft Jeremy?(I believe from washington), McKinney is the next hi priced on the bench..Weigart..uhh



makes me sick.

JDizzle
11-26-2006, 06:11 PM
Having both our tackles go down for the season does not help the situation any, but Wiegert needs to be replaced at RT. He is a decent guard but TERRIBLE at tackle. Winston did not look good today but it's his 2nd full game in the NFL, so who knows, but I expect for Kubiak and Smith to address the line in the offseason.

Scooter
11-26-2006, 06:18 PM
blows my mind after 5 years our line is not set and been a revolving door since day one.

Boselli,Seth Wand,Todd Wade,RyanYoung,Milford Brown,expansion draft Jeremy?(I believe from washington), McKinney is the next hi priced on the bench..Weigart..uhh



makes me sick.

i've got a headache by this also, but it's atleast a little comforting that all of those guys belong to capers. kubiak brought in a franchise LT in spencer, he brought flanagan to stop the bleeding at center (we need to draft here and begin grooming quickly, i like flanagan but he's only a bandaid at this point), and winston's progressing and might start next year. the only good move capers made on the line in 4 years is pitts ... kubiak had 3 good moves in one offseason (and one real bad one by releasing wand & signing salaam).

Runner
11-26-2006, 06:21 PM
Having both our tackles go down for the season does not help the situation any...

If the coaches set the 53 man roster based on the assumption Wiegert would make it through the year, they made a mistake. Wiegert's being injured was foreseeable. I was surprised it took so long.

They are still running the same risk with Salaam. If he was put in with the expectation that he would last 14 games, that was risky. So far they are getting by with him.

Wiegert and Salaam have both been injury prone the last couple of years. Counting on both of them remaining healthy was not a strong decision.

nunusguy
11-26-2006, 06:30 PM
blows my mind after 5 years our line is not set and been a revolving door since day one.

Just to get us thru the rest of the year and maybe win another game or two,
what blows my mind is that Kubiak refuses to move Pitts to LT, and move McKinney into his place at LG instead of keeping Saalam at LT ?

Crazyhorse
11-26-2006, 10:26 PM
If you think our offensive line was bad then consider the fact that Mario ran over the "Brick"(ist rounder!) most of the day pressuring the QB Pennington. Our o-line did a good job pass blocking but they can only hold a man out for so long!! Mr. Carr has to get rid of the ball too. The Jets jamed the line all day with linebackers and we couldn't adjust the running game to take advatage of it. We threw down field once or twice early then went to the lateral game which got us no where. Play calling needs to adjust through the game based on what the defense is doing. We seemed content to run the same thing all day.....

Insideop
11-27-2006, 12:05 AM
A lot of people are questioning the playcalling of screens... others are questioning Carr for taking the dumpoffs... the reality is, we don't have an offensive line capable of sustaining pass protection long enough to let these plays develop. We don't have an offensive line capable of opening up running lanes at all.

I don't think it's reasonable to say we have our "bookend" tackles of the future in Spencer and Winston. Both had flashes, sure, but Spencer in his couple of games and now Winston have had plenty of blunders as well. There's a reason they were third round draft choices. Odds are both won't pan out. I hope they will - and maybe we'll get lucky - but imo, we don't need to plan the future based on that.

We certainly don't need to be talking about Adrian Peterson or Steve Slaton at this point... I don't think Barry Sanders in his prime could've done anything with the lanes today. This team still lacks the necessary talent upfront, and to me, that's where I'd use this first round pick. We need elite talent there. Yes, we need a second corner... but I'd guess it'd be easier to address the corner position via FA than OT or OG.

Nice post DD. I couldn't agree with you more. IMO we should try to get Joe Thomas with our 1st round pick and put him in at LT and move Spencer to G. Yes, I know we need help at CB and S, but I think that should be addressed in FA (Samuel or Clements) as well as OLB (Briggs or Thomas). In the 2nd round I'd get the best C available or best DT available. JMHO!

phan1
11-27-2006, 02:17 AM
Dude, on that one play where Carr was sacked, they brought in a 4-man rush. ALL 4 COULD HAVE SACKED CARR!!! All four of those guys were in the backfield and probably deserved a 1/2 sack each! I thought they brought a blitz on that play too, but the announcer pointed out that it was just a 4-man rush! Just dispicable.

And the running game? Absolutely sad and pathetic. You average 1 yard a carry against a simple 3-4 front seven? A team that is at the bottom in rushing yrds allowed? Our Oline sucks so hard it's unfathomable to me how bad we are. It's got to be coaching cause I just can't believe we can be this bad.

Texans Horror
11-27-2006, 08:22 AM
Salaam and Winston should not be in the game. Neither one are "ready" IMO, both due to age, but different ends of it. I think that this will be a good experience for Eric for next year, when he will likely be the starting right tackle. With Flanagan up there in years, I would say that the Texans need to pull a Center as soon as possible in next year's draft and build him up.

For the running game, IMO, the answer is simple. In the preseason the line made lanes. During the season they have made small holes. I really don't like laying the blame squarely on the running backs. They need bigger holes.

And yeah, losing out on Seth I think was again a MAJOR, MAJOR problem on the o-line. Two years in a row they had the tool to fix the leak, but never brought it out of the toolbox.

Mysteryhunt
11-27-2006, 08:50 AM
See the blitz? Dude, this isn't just happening when the other team blitzes. It's happening when they rush three or four guys. In the running game, we can't even open up enough of a hole to get 2-3 yards. This offensive line just isn't talented. There's no QB in the world who can open up this running game. It's the talent, or lack thereof.

QFT

TheOgre
11-27-2006, 10:06 AM
Our O-line is horrible, our secondary (minus Robinson) is pathetic, our backfield needs to an overhaul, our two OLB's bite, and our two kickers need the boot. Other than that, we are set.

edo783
11-27-2006, 10:49 AM
Our O-line is horrible, our secondary (minus Robinson) is pathetic, our backfield needs to an overhaul, our two OLB's bite, and our two kickers need the boot. Other than that, we are set.

Pretty much says it Ogre.

Crazyhorse
11-27-2006, 11:27 AM
After watching the line play and sacks recorded in the Bears Pat's game maybe we are not as bad off as we all think. Let's remember we are starting over this year with a new system, and doing it with young rookies and vet's who are long in the tooth for the most part. We all want to win but until the right mix is achieved we will have to wait. Another good draft this year and we could be on our way. Remember if we put Spencer back in the mix we get even better.
The "Brick" was not real impressive at all yesterday and Mario beat him on a number of occations. This is a first rounder who is suppose to be a star but played like a low round draft choice.Winston though not perfect played an over all better game than he did from what I saw on the TV.
The other item to consider is QB release, Carr can't hold the ball for ever and has to come up with more than a quick slant to go dwn field with. Is that David or poor play design, you can't tell not seeing the routes the receivers are running many times.

TexasJedi
11-27-2006, 11:49 AM
the o-line is not the problem....the qb needs to have better pocket presence. We seen today how Pennington was able to feel the rush and avoid it and make plays and who does he have at wr or runningback that we should be scared of, just make plays, thats what its all about. All they have is coles at wr, we have johnson and moulds....we have a solid te in daniels....the qb needs to make plays!!
The Jets spent 2 First round picks on critical positions on the offensive line, left tackle and center. The Texans have never seemed that interested in doing the same. Until the line gets fixed it does not matter who takes the snaps or lines up in the backfield.

TexasJedi
11-27-2006, 11:51 AM
Nice post DD. I couldn't agree with you more. IMO we should try to get Joe Thomas with our 1st round pick and put him in at LT and move Spencer to G. Yes, I know we need help at CB and S, but I think that should be addressed in FA (Samuel or Clements) as well as OLB (Briggs or Thomas). In the 2nd round I'd get the best C available or best DT available. JMHO!
I agree with you. We need a good tackle, so maybe we'll be in position to get the best one in draft.

TPIMP
11-27-2006, 12:19 PM
the o-line is not the problem....the qb needs to have better pocket presence. We seen today how Pennington was able to feel the rush and avoid it and make plays and who does he have at wr or runningback that we should be scared of, just make plays, thats what its all about. All they have is coles at wr, we have johnson and moulds....we have a solid te in daniels....the qb needs to make plays!!

The Jets have two first round picks on the OL. Brick is a top 4 pick. The highest pick protecting Carr is a middle of the second round pick Chester Pitts. Most of the OL the Texans have shuffled through were 3rd round or lower. Some were not even drafted. The constant problem in the last 5 years is the OL not David Carr. Until we add talent instead of band aids our offense will fail.

beerlover
11-27-2006, 12:21 PM
trade down, too many needs as Ogre suggested- everywhere :spy:

Tailgate
11-27-2006, 12:25 PM
Did anyone but me think that when our promising draft pick in Spencer went down it would basically send our O-Line into a downward spiral??? Then turn our offense into basically what is has been before Kubiak came into town. I knew right then and there that our season would be a rough one from then on out.

texaslifter
11-27-2006, 12:42 PM
As always, a stout O-Line can make any decent back look great. Thats the longterm solution and I think Kubiak is working on that by spending a couple draft picks per year on the problem.

Runner
11-27-2006, 01:29 PM
Did anyone but me think that when our promising draft pick in Spencer went down it would basically send our O-Line into a downward spiral???

I thought we'd be OK for a couple of days - then they signed Bedell to fill his roster spot. I figured we were in trouble at that point. Naming swing back-up Salaam the starter for 14 games and waiting for Wiegert to get hurt were my areas of concern. Some team chemistry issues concerned me too.