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Goldeagle
11-26-2006, 01:31 PM
How many does this guy drop every week? Dropped the quick slant, then drops the deeper pass in the CLUTCH situation.

Wonder if Kubiak will openly comment on his butterfingers?

Then again, Im sure its Carrs fault for putting the pass right in his numbers and hands.

FirstTexansFan
11-26-2006, 01:33 PM
Where are the "Trade Johnson" threads? This guy must be wearing tefllon gloves...criticism doesn't stick but neither does the ball :)

Goldeagle
11-26-2006, 01:45 PM
Where are the "Trade Johnson" threads? This guy is must be wearing tefllon gloves...criticism doesn't stick but neither does the ball :)



LOL

Honoring Earl 34
11-26-2006, 01:48 PM
He's not used to a pass that far down the field . In fact it caught him by surprise he thought it was already dumped off . I know it took 3 points of the board cause theres no way in hell Carr was throwing a TD .

MrMeToo
11-26-2006, 01:53 PM
He's not used to a pass that far down the field . In fact it caught him by surprise he thought it was already dumped off . I know it took 3 points of the board cause theres no way in hell Carr was throwing a TD .

So true...

You know what else I'm tired of. Carr throwing INTs and short throws on 3rd and long.

Goldeagle
11-26-2006, 03:11 PM
Andre and the rest of the receiving corp cant do junk in garbage time. Tired of dropped passes, we could have taken a shot at the end zone or at least had a 50/50 chance of a field goal (you never know with our guys)

Hervoyel
11-26-2006, 03:30 PM
I loved when AJ dropped that ball that hit him "right in the breadbasket" (to quote the announcers). I loved the part where they were shocked that he dropped a pass. They said "you won't see that very often" which was my first clue that they don't see many Texans games. Johnson constantly gets a pass on his "Corey Bradford hands".

MrMeToo
11-26-2006, 03:30 PM
Andre and the rest of the receiving corp cant do junk in garbage time. Tired of dropped passes, we could have taken a shot at the end zone or at least had a 50/50 chance of a field goal (you never know with our guys)

^^^AJ HATER...

Napa Auto Parts
11-26-2006, 03:32 PM
^^^AJ HATER...



you mean carr apologist:yahoo:

Goldeagle
11-26-2006, 03:33 PM
I loved when AJ dropped that ball that hit him "right in the breadbasket" (to quote the announcers). I loved the part where they were shocked that he dropped a pass. They said "you won't see that very often" which was my first clue that they don't see many Texans games. Johnson constantly gets a pass on his "Corey Bradford hands".

LOL, my friend and I found that funny as well, but when you are the worse team in the league you get the worse announcers, and BOY were they bad.

AJ gets a pass, he needs the HEAT brought down on him like CARR gets from the coaching staff.

MrMeToo
11-26-2006, 03:33 PM
you mean carr apologist:yahoo:

LOL.

Goldeagle
11-26-2006, 03:34 PM
you mean carr apologist:yahoo:

Yeah, Carr's passes that hit Andre in the chest or hands, is not AJs fault for dropping them. Osama Bin Carr lubes the ball up before he throws it to AJ.

Napa Auto Parts
11-26-2006, 03:46 PM
^^^AJ HATER...

Yeah, Carr's passes that hit Andre in the chest or hands, is not AJs fault for dropping them. Osama Bin Carr lubes the ball up before he throws it to AJ.

hell may be i dont really like AJ either but he doesnt suck as much as the david andre is our only pro bowler may be so he cant be that bad.

NFLforher
11-26-2006, 03:54 PM
How many does this guy drop every week? Dropped the quick slant, then drops the deeper pass in the CLUTCH situation.

Wonder if Kubiak will openly comment on his butterfingers?

Then again, Im sure its Carrs fault for putting the pass right in his numbers and hands.


Rice and TO were booed in SF for having drops. AJ is a good WR.

Goldeagle
11-26-2006, 04:59 PM
hell may be i dont really like AJ either but he doesnt suck as much as the david andre is our only pro bowler may be so he cant be that bad.


Never said I hated the guy, thats just your perception of wanting to be negative, its ok, it was a horrible loss.

But as Herv stated, he gets away with having "COREY BRADFORD HANDS"

nunusguy
11-26-2006, 05:14 PM
But as Herv stated, he gets away with having "COREY BRADFORD HANDS"
Not really, cause Bradford couldn't catch anything. Easy or difficult catchs,
Bradford managed consistantly - he dropped most of them.
AJ makes a high percentage of tough catchs, really spectacular catchs.
You see that one hander today ?
Its obviously a concentration thing. He anticipates a difficult pass, the effort
gets his undivided attention. Anticipating an easy reception, his mind wanders
to running after the catch and he loses concentration on the incoming ball.

Mysteryhunt
11-26-2006, 06:13 PM
you must really be grasping at straws if somehow you think aj is a problem area on this team...

dat_boy_yec
11-26-2006, 06:24 PM
He's not part of the solution so obviously he must be part of the problem. You ever notice how alot of other receivers after they make a spectacular catch it usually starts out with look at the move he uses right here on the LOS or look at the crisp route running. Whatever they usually say. However with Johnson it's never like that. The guy needs to get better. He relies to much on his physical talents. He has all the tools he just isn't elite all the time.

Hervoyel
11-26-2006, 06:42 PM
Not really, cause Bradford couldn't catch anything. Easy or difficult catchs,
Bradford managed consistantly - he dropped most of them.
AJ makes a high percentage of tough catchs, really spectacular catchs.
You see that one hander today ?
Its obviously a concentration thing. He anticipates a difficult pass, the effort
gets his undivided attention. Anticipating an easy reception, his mind wanders
to running after the catch and he loses concentration on the incoming ball.

How can you have over 3,000 posts and actually believe that Corey Bradford couldn't catch anything. You have to know that's bull right? Bradford was the master of the acrobatic catch. He made catches that AJ wishes he could make. The difficult catches were never a problem for Corey Bradford. They were his stock and trade.

Corey couldn't catch the simple passes. He'd catch a 30 yard pass one handed while leaping in the air upside down and come down in stride on one play and then drop one placed right in his hands while he stood still with nobody around him on the next play. He was money if it looked like it might make a highlight reel but useless if you needed a first down to keep a drive alive on 3rd and 8.

That's why I say AJ has Corey Bradford Hands. Not nearly as bad a case of them as Corey had but he still drops the gimmies way too often.

MrMeToo
11-26-2006, 07:01 PM
How can you have over 3,000 posts and actually believe that Corey Bradford couldn't catch anything. You have to know that's bull right? Bradford was the master of the acrobatic catch. He made catches that AJ wishes he could make. The difficult catches were never a problem for Corey Bradford. They were his stock and trade.

Corey couldn't catch the simple passes. He'd catch a 30 yard pass one handed while leaping in the air upside down and come down in stride on one play and then drop one placed right in his hands while he stood still with nobody around him on the next play. He was money if it looked like it might make a highlight reel but useless if you needed a first down to keep a drive alive on 3rd and 8.

That's why I say AJ has Corey Bradford Hands. Not nearly as bad a case of them as Corey had but he still drops the gimmies way too often.

So does almost every WR in the league except for maybe 3 or 4

Marcus
11-26-2006, 07:03 PM
That's why I say AJ has Corey Bradford Hands. Not nearly as bad a case of them as Corey had but he still drops the gimmies way too often.
AJ might very well go to the Pro Bowl this year, but invitations to the Pro Bowl are stat driven. And we all know how misleading stats are.

Andre Johnson and David Carr have one thing in common. I don't remember the last time either one of them came through in the clutch.

Kaiser Toro
11-26-2006, 07:05 PM
Andre's stats look nice, but not a good day. The one drop was a huge one, but one that was early enough that we could have recovered from.

Hulk75
11-26-2006, 07:07 PM
Drops them all the time, why should it change now! He is what HE is, A big Physical guy that drops balls that elite WRs make to help out their Qbs.

He drops balls and drops balles and drops balls, I counted nearly 1 for every game last year and pretty much this year. Dropped 2 today.

Ibar_Harry
11-26-2006, 07:13 PM
I loved when AJ dropped that ball that hit him "right in the breadbasket" (to quote the announcers). I loved the part where they were shocked that he dropped a pass. They said "you won't see that very often" which was my first clue that they don't see many Texans games. Johnson constantly gets a pass on his "Corey Bradford hands".

Yes, and Herv how long have I been saying AJ does not have the hands of an elite receiver and been lambasted by this board. AJ should not be the go to man in critical situations. It should be Moulds who has the hands of an elite receiver.

Is a AJ a very good receiver. I think there is no question, but that is true. But I don't believe he will ever be an elite receiver. His catched would have materially changed the game, but that's the way it has been for a long time. Their is some truth to the notion of being surprised by something that doesn't often happen simply because we don't try to do it very often.

kenneth24
11-26-2006, 07:28 PM
I loved when AJ dropped that ball that hit him "right in the breadbasket" (to quote the announcers). I loved the part where they were shocked that he dropped a pass. They said "you won't see that very often" which was my first clue that they don't see many Texans games. Johnson constantly gets a pass on his "Corey Bradford hands".

I found that extremely funny myself! He is usually good for at least 1 drop a game and if for some reason when the ball does slip out of his hands and gets intercepted (Sage's pass against Tennessee and the time he had the ball ripped from him earlier this year (I think against the Dolphins but am not sure)) he seems to actually get fired up and takes it more personal. Can we find some way to get him ticked off before the game starts?!? And on the deep ball he needs to do a better job of going up and getting it at times. He does a good job of positioning with his body but he rarely goes UP to get the ball over the smaller DB. AJ is a good receiver but even our best player has room for improvement!

RTP2110
11-26-2006, 07:35 PM
Wasn't the knock on AJ coming out of college his hands?

kenneth24
11-26-2006, 07:42 PM
Wasn't the knock on AJ coming out of college his hands?

Yes!

but i thought he could afford better stickum now! Maybe he could just work on getting better now that he doesn't have to worry about all those pesty exams now that he's out of college. Nevermind...he went to the U!:sarcasm:

Sorry I'm a little sensitive after another game like this!

Marcus
11-26-2006, 07:58 PM
He does a good job of positioning with his body but he rarely goes UP to get the ball over the smaller DB.

Good observation!

Elite receivers not only go UP to get the ball, but know exactly WHEN to go UP. DBs are usually impatient, and leap too soon. Great receivers (Anthony Carter for example) are on the way up while the DBs are already on the way down.

TheRealJoker
11-26-2006, 08:06 PM
I remember making a thread about AJ last week....

Is this going to be a weekly thing or something?

kenneth24
11-26-2006, 08:08 PM
Good observation!

Elite receivers not only go UP to get the ball, but know exactly WHEN to go UP. DBs are usually impatient, and leap too soon. Great receivers (Anthony Carter for example) are on the way up while the DBs are already on the way down.

Thanks and to add a little more to what you are saying...AJ usually seems like the impatient one and most of the time seems to be tripping all over himself.

texan279
11-26-2006, 08:09 PM
Good observation!

Elite receivers not only go UP to get the ball, but know exactly WHEN to go UP. DBs are usually impatient, and leap too soon. Great receivers (Anthony Carter for example) are on the way up while the DBs are already on the way down.

Which is exactly what happened last week against the Bills. Nate Clements went up and over AJ to sang that INT out of AJ's hands. I watched the replay about 15 times.

thunderkyss
11-26-2006, 09:06 PM
Which is exactly what happened last week against the Bills. Nate Clements went up and over AJ to sang that INT out of AJ's hands. I watched the replay about 15 times.

not exactly. Carr got hit as he was throwing the ball. It was sailing, and went right to Clements. AJ got their late, and got one hand on the ball, and tried to rip it out.

texan279
11-26-2006, 09:39 PM
not exactly. Carr got hit as he was throwing the ball. It was sailing, and went right to Clements. AJ got their late, and got one hand on the ball, and tried to rip it out.

The ball hit AJ in the hands and Clements jumped over the top of him and ripped the ball out of AJ's hands. Go to the Buffalo Bills website and watch the replay, they show it from the opposite side of the field.

thunderkyss
11-26-2006, 09:47 PM
The ball hit AJ in the hands and Clements jumped over the top of him and ripped the ball out of AJ's hands. Go to the Buffalo Bills website and watch the replay, they show it from the opposite side of the field.

First, you need to stop hanging around on the buffalo bills website, second, do they show David getting hit as the ball is being released?? Do they show AJ changing his route to get to the ball?? because he jumped in to try to strip it from Nate. he never had two hands on the ball, as he came down and landed on one of those hands while his other was still on the ball.

texan279
11-26-2006, 10:47 PM
First, you need to stop hanging around on the buffalo bills website, second, do they show David getting hit as the ball is being released?? Do they show AJ changing his route to get to the ball?? because he jumped in to try to strip it from Nate. he never had two hands on the ball, as he came down and landed on one of those hands while his other was still on the ball.

http://buffalobills.com/multimedia/index.jsp?file_300=

texan279
11-26-2006, 10:54 PM
First, you need to stop hanging around on the buffalo bills website, second, do they show David getting hit as the ball is being released?? Do they show AJ changing his route to get to the ball?? because he jumped in to try to strip it from Nate. he never had two hands on the ball, as he came down and landed on one of those hands while his other was still on the ball.


http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=649

BEST VERTICAL: Nate Clements He out jumped 63 Andre Johnson for a first quarter interception which was also his first pick of the season. (Honorable mention to Houston LB Shantee Orr who leaped right over Anthony Thomas to sack Losman).

thunderkyss
11-27-2006, 06:22 AM
http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=649

BEST VERTICAL: Nate Clements He out jumped 63 Andre Johnson for a first quarter interception which was also his first pick of the season. (Honorable mention to Houston LB Shantee Orr who leaped right over Anthony Thomas to sack Losman).

Well heck, since it says so on a Bills website, I guess I should believe it, and not what my eyes see......

:sarcasm:

texan's blue
11-27-2006, 07:39 AM
How about that Carr throwing behind the line of scrimmage? Oh yeah that is the sign of true talent! What 2 yards here and 5 yards there is good for you?

I'm not standing up for Carr but frankly that's all he seems to have open. Even the commentators were talking about how he looks down field... finds nothing and has to dump short. With that said it was an absolute mistake for the Texan's to make Carr a starter from day 1. I think that it obvious now with so many 2-3 year QBs taking over teams and looking so great.

AJ drops balls just like every other WR in the NFL. Unfortunately we wind up with L's instead of W's and so every mistake every player makes stands out. What I'm tired of is watching is our guys dropping the ball in key situations... and this isn't just AJ. And where are the the YAC!!!!

nunusguy
11-27-2006, 07:43 AM
How can you have over 3,000 posts and actually believe that Corey Bradford couldn't catch
Lousy memory ? Honestly, I can remember Bradford catching the pass in the inaugural game that all the Cowboys haters are so sentimental about, but
most of all I remember his big catch in the season opener down in South Florida back in 2003. But that's about it. On the other hand I can remember gobs of spectacular catchs that AJ made.
But the thing about AJ is that it seems he is the one player on the roster who is immune from Kubiacks criticism when he deserves it in many situations.
And we had a couple of those situations yesterday, and not just the big dropped pass. AJ very conspicuously dogged it on a play where he basically turned into a statue to ignore a Jet defender right in front of him who made
the tackle. But I can't ever remember Kubiak getting on AJs case a single time. Maybe my lousy memory at work again ?

FanFromCali
11-27-2006, 08:17 AM
AJ is the best offensive player the team has and I hope he has a long career with the Texans. But if people are going to jump on Carr then it is only fair that AJ receives some of the blame as well.

I don't think it is time to run AJ out of town but yes, he needs to hold on to the ball and it has happened too often to be ignored. But having said that he will be fine and is still one of the best WR in the NFL..

texan279
11-27-2006, 09:08 AM
Well heck, since it says so on a Bills website, I guess I should believe it, and not what my eyes see......

:sarcasm:

Well then click on the 1st link and watch the replay and watch AJ get outjumped.

thunderkyss
11-27-2006, 10:02 AM
I've got the game recorded, and I watched that play several times. That ball did not go where David wanted it to. AJ was running to the outside, Nate was on top, running with him, till he saw the ball heading right for him, he broke off of AJ, and went back to get the ball. AJ had to turn inside just to get in position to try to get it away from Clements.

Look, there are a lot of things we can bash AJ about. He runs poor routes... he drops way too many balls..... he doesn't block worth a darn.. & for all his play making ability, we need more vocal leadership out of him.

But he didn't get out jumped on that play.

Hulk75
11-27-2006, 10:04 AM
I've got the game recorded, and I watched that play several times. That ball did not go where David wanted it to. AJ was running to the outside, Nate was on top, running with him, till he saw the ball heading right for him, he broke off of AJ, and went back to get the ball. AJ had to turn inside just to get in position to try to get it away from Clements.

Look, there are a lot of things we can bash AJ about. He runs poor routes... he drops way too many balls..... he doesn't block worth a darn.. & for all his play making ability, we need more vocal leadership out of him.

But he didn't get out jumped on that play.

Dre stumbled like his knees gave out, so you cant really tell what would have happened, he needs to come down with that ball, but who cares we love Andre.

texan279
11-27-2006, 10:07 AM
I've got the game recorded, and I watched that play several times. That ball did not go where David wanted it to. AJ was running to the outside, Nate was on top, running with him, till he saw the ball heading right for him, he broke off of AJ, and went back to get the ball. AJ had to turn inside just to get in position to try to get it away from Clements.

Look, there are a lot of things we can bash AJ about. He runs poor routes... he drops way too many balls..... he doesn't block worth a darn.. & for all his play making ability, we need more vocal leadership out of him.

But he didn't get out jumped on that play.

When a defender jumps over the top of you and takes the ball from you I call that getting out jumped.

The.Houston.Titans
12-01-2006, 02:16 AM
Does AJ still catch the ball with his pads? This has been a slight concern since the 2004 season.

http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=4744

Double Barrel
12-01-2006, 10:15 AM
Andre Johnson and David Carr have one thing in common. I don't remember the last time either one of them came through in the clutch.

Bingo! I still go back to the Bills game on a 3rd and 2 that these two no. 1 draft picks could not complete. I'm at the point of realizing that neither of these players are clutch, because that should have been a gimme' play after Carr completed 22 in a row earlier in the game.

Elite players seal the deal when it matters. Good players have good stats, but that does not make them elite.

trublu
12-01-2006, 03:39 PM
I'll tell ya what, let AJ go and keep Carr. Do it, dammit!!!

I don't think anyone is petitioning to run AJ out of town. But like many people onthis board say, he is our best offensive player. If anyone is going to criticize Carr for ill-adviced throws than it is only fair that our best offensive player catch some heat for not making some clutch receptions.:hmmm:

Ibar_Harry
12-01-2006, 04:23 PM
Yes, and who is the head coach of Dallas? Some have been clamoring about VY and we really did him a favor when you look at who is his head coach and who is his offensive coordinator. I really think some of this is all about who is the head coach and who is the OC or the QB coach.

Despite the down year the Titans had last year they are really an established team with a very, very good head coach and an excellent OC. Parcells can match anyone as a head coach and he has taught a lot of QB's the game as well as his defensive personnel. He's probably one of the most well rounded coaches in the NFL.

I understand how people feel. I just think Carr has been in a weak system for a very long time. Place him on a team with an O-line that knows how to pass block and I think you will find a very different player. Quite frankly I said well before the start of the season that it probably was a mistake for Carr to stay in Houston and I think that really is the case. He simply will never be respected in Houston no matter what and it is time for him to move on.

Its simply a no win situation. I really don't think Carr can be himself while playing for the Texans. Simply too much has happened to make that possible. I really think this is Carr's last year in Houston.

hollywood_texan
12-01-2006, 05:19 PM
Bingo! I still go back to the Bills game on a 3rd and 2 that these two no. 1 draft picks could not complete. I'm at the point of realizing that neither of these players are clutch, because that should have been a gimme' play after Carr completed 22 in a row earlier in the game.

Elite players seal the deal when it matters. Good players have good stats, but that does not make them elite.

Very good point.

I would just add to this whole discussion, that a player is going to make mistakes, drop balls, turnovers, etc.

The question is, does the player make the big plays to overcome those mistakes and provide a net value to the team?

texan279
12-01-2006, 07:15 PM
Carr lover's need to find an excuse for him to stay in town. I remember they blamed Palmer alot for his problem's. Now palmer is back at the Cowboy's organization and look what he did to Romo. Hmmm it makes you wonder...

The Cowboys also three out of five starting linemen who have been to the Pro Bowl in the past and Romo has TO, Crayton, and Glenn to throw to. Not saying our WR core is bad, but TO is still a top 3 WR in the NFL if not the #1 WR in the NFL.

pancho
12-01-2006, 07:29 PM
Don't know if it was mentioned, but AJ's one-handed catch was special. They all have drops, even TO.

Goldeagle
12-01-2006, 09:22 PM
AJ might very well go to the Pro Bowl this year, but invitations to the Pro Bowl are stat driven. And we all know how misleading stats are.

Andre Johnson and David Carr have one thing in common. I don't remember the last time either one of them came through in the clutch.

Totally, Well except in the 2nd quarter of the Jets game when AJ dropped the pass.

If Carrs numbers dont count than AJs numbers dont count.

Vinny
12-01-2006, 09:58 PM
Andre Johnson leads the NFL in receptions and is 3rd in yardage. Think about that and read this thread.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/REC/2006/regular

I posted this before but worth posting again...I have to question many Houston football fans 'football IQ' when they dog on Johnson. Saying Johnson is a part of the problem here is like saying that Lance Berkman is a part of the problem with the Astros because he strikes out sometimes. WR's drop passes. It just happens. We happen to follow this team the closest so that's the only thing we see. It's like the various fans of different teams hating the draft record of their team each year....they think they follow the only team in the NFL that blows draft picks...some of you guys are way too close to the elephant. I've read some pretty amazing stuff in a few threads, not just here in this one...just a general overview.

texan279
12-01-2006, 11:20 PM
Andre Johnson leads the NFL in receptions and is 3rd in yardage. Think about that and read this thread.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/REC/2006/regular

I posted this before but worth posting again...I have to question many Houston football fans 'football IQ' when they dog on Johnson. Saying Johnson is a part of the problem here is like saying that Lance Berkman is a part of the problem with the Astros because he strikes out sometimes. WR's drop passes. It just happens. We happen to follow this team the closest so that's the only thing we see. It's like the various fans of different teams hating the draft record of their team each year....they think they follow the only team in the NFL that blows draft picks...some of you guys are way too close to the elephant. I've read some pretty amazing stuff in a few threads, not just here in this one...just a general overview.

Why is it OK to use stats to pump AJ but not Carr? When anyone tries to use stats to back Carr you say stats are useless yet you post a statline showing us AJ leads the NFL in receptions? If your going to pump him for being #1 in the NFL in receptions you gotta give some credit to Carr, especially since AJ is 3rd in the NFL with 14 catches of 20+ yards, tied for 2nd in the NFL with 4 100+ yard games, yet he is 65th in the NFL in average yards per catch and ranked 51st in the NFL in average yards after catch. My problem with AJ is not just the dropped passes, but his problems with getting separation and not playing physical enough.

Vinny
12-01-2006, 11:27 PM
Carr struggles to get the ball downfield YET, Andre Johnson is 3rd in the NFL in yardage. Perhaps this argument is over your head?

texan279
12-01-2006, 11:31 PM
Carr struggles to get the ball dowfield YET, Andre Johnson is 3rd in the NFL in yardage. Perhaps this argument is over your head?

Actually it isn't, he is 3rd in yardage, and is tied for 3rd in the NFL with 14 catches of 20+ yards, yet he is 65th in the NFL in yards per catch and 51st in average yards after catch, that tells me he doesn't do much after catching the ball to be ranked so high in total yards yet ranked so low in yards per catch and yards after catch.

Vinny
12-01-2006, 11:37 PM
Ok, It really doesn't shock me that we can't agree on Carr either. I just need to stay out of these kinds of things since I can't grasp your thinking or grasp what you see when you watch Andre Johnson play football and dog him for being one a top 10 WR's in the NFL, from being a great blocking wr to the one player that has been productive on a consistent basis in a largely unproductive offense when healthy. I'm sure he is a Pro Bowler this year and this will make it two in 4 years. You go on and keep on seeing what you see. I just don't see how any of you guys can be so down on Andre Johnson. Johnson is the only gamebreaker on offense and draws ALL the defensive attention yet he still thrives even with the NFL's best defenders assigned to him every single week. I watch lots of football from SEC to the NFL....lol is all I can say.

texan279
12-01-2006, 11:45 PM
Ok, It really doesn't shock me that we can't agree on Carr either. I just need to stay out of these kinds of things since I can't grasp your thinking or grasp what you see when you watch Andre Johnson play football and dog him for being one a top 10 WR's in the NFL, from being a great blocking wr to the one player that has been productive on a consistent basis in a largely unproductive offense when healthy. I'm sure he is a Pro Bowler this year and this will make it two in 4 years. You go on and keep on seeing what you see. I just don't see how any of you guys can be so down on Andre Johnson. I watch lots of football from SEC to the NFL....lol is all I can say.

I never said I was down on him, and ok so he can block, just saying he is not a perfect WR, he does have problems getting separation and IMO he doesn't play physical enough. As far as the Pro Bowl, it's a stat driven popularity contest, but like you always say, stats don't matter right?

Vinny
12-01-2006, 11:47 PM
geez, you guys are amazing. Andre Johnson is our only playmaker. The best of the best double team him each week. Let's get him some help. It's not the other way around.

Vinny, signing out!

texan279
12-01-2006, 11:48 PM
geez, you guys are amazing. Andre Johnson is our only playmaker. The best of the best double team him each week. Let's get him some help. It's not the other way around.

Vinny, signing out!

Bottom line is Carr and AJ have both improved since '05, but both still have areas that need work.

Vinny
12-01-2006, 11:55 PM
Bottom line is Carr and AJ have both improved since '05, but both still have areas that need work.At the EOY, AJ will have two pro bowls and is a proven playmaker in the NFL in his first 4 years. You can't say anything close to that about Carr. Andre Johnson is an elite player and he is constantly surrounded because teams know Carr locks into him. Once we get an offense that makes teams pay for cheating extra help to him on a regular basis, he is going to be a mega-star. Until then we only have a Pro Bowler that gets the bejabbers pounded out of him because he catches most of his passes underneath the linebacker drops. It's amazing you guys can't see how physical he is despite being covered by 2 or more of the NFL elite defenders each Sunday. He has dropped some passes because he is the only playmaker on the team and teams cheat to him. That's really not as big a problem as you guys make it out to be. Frankly it would amuse me more if it didn't make wonder what you guys are looking at when you watch the games on Sunday.

texan279
12-02-2006, 12:03 AM
At the EOY, AJ will have two pro bowls and is a proven playmaker in the NFL in his first 4 years. You can't say anything close to that about Carr. Andre Johnson is an elite player and he is constantly surrounded because teams know Carr locks into him. Once we get an offense that makes teams pay for cheating extra help to him on a regular basis, he is going to be a mega-star. Until then we only have a Pro Bowler that gets the bejabbers pounded out of him because he catches most of his passes underneath the linebacker drops. It's amazing you guys can't see how physical he is despite being covered by 2 or more of the NFL elite defenders each Sunday. He has dropped some passes because he is the only playmaker on the team and teams cheat to him. That's really not as big a problem as you guys make it out to be. Frankly it would amuse me more if it didn't make wonder what you guys are looking at when you watch the games on Sunday.

Sure he makes plays, but he also drops balls that hit him in the hands and I have seen two cornerbacks take balls out of his hands this season. You know, you say he is such an elite WR and such a playmaker, there has to be a QB throwing the ball to him to give him those opportunities right?

GNTLEWOLF
12-02-2006, 04:00 AM
Yes, and who is the head coach of Dallas? Some have been clamoring about VY and we really did him a favor when you look at who is his head coach and who is his offensive coordinator. I really think some of this is all about who is the head coach and who is the OC or the QB coach.

Despite the down year the Titans had last year they are really an established team with a very, very good head coach and an excellent OC. Parcells can match anyone as a head coach and he has taught a lot of QB's the game as well as his defensive personnel. He's probably one of the most well rounded coaches in the NFL.

I understand how people feel. I just think Carr has been in a weak system for a very long time. Place him on a team with an O-line that knows how to pass block and I think you will find a very different player. Quite frankly I said well before the start of the season that it probably was a mistake for Carr to stay in Houston and I think that really is the case. He simply will never be respected in Houston no matter what and it is time for him to move on.

Its simply a no win situation. I really don't think Carr can be himself while playing for the Texans. Simply too much has happened to make that possible. I really think this is Carr's last year in Houston.


I Really hate these kind of discussions and usually participate very little since I believe them to be fruitless. However, in the posts that I have participated in, I tend to be more supportive of Carr than critical. I have believed and still do that carr's problems have stemmed from several factors, not the least of which are poor o-line and lack of coaching. It has been my contention, with that in mind, that carr needs to be given more slack. Having said this, I have often compared him to Jake Plummer. I feel that Plummer was a great HOF caliber QB when he came out of college. His potential was immeasureable. However, with several years of run-for-your-life football in Arizona, he developed bad habits that he was never able to fully outgrow once he left there. In short, Plummer has been ruined. When this season began, I wondered if maybe DC was not now the same way, that is ruined as a result of being a human tackling dummy for the 4 previous years. I like the kid and would love to see him succeed, but I wonder if that will ever be possible, and more speciffically if that is possible in Houston. From what I've seen on these boards, I doubt that is possible. Both sides, The Carr haters, and The Carr homers refuse to face facts. Both sides use stats to prove their own point of view regardless of whether or not this kid played well. Frankly, Carr has had very good games this year, and he has been dreadful. Both in the winning(Carr lovers) and in the losing(Carr haters) he was not alone on the field. The game of football is a team sport. No one man can win a game or lose it. That person can be the spark that turns the tide, or the weak link that leads to failure, but they can not win or lose a game alone! Like most of you, I played football in HS, and like some of you, I have coached at the HS level. I understand the debate, and both sides of that debate. Valid points each way.
Having vented my frustration, I now agree with Ibar that it is probably a mistake for Carr to stay in Houston. In order for him to succeed he will have to go. It Is indeed a no win situation.
But, Lets be fair and spread the blame around where it belongs. There have been times when other beloved players could have and should have stepped up to make plays also, and didn't. I don't care if they are all-pro. I don't care who thinks that only sunshine lollipops grow in the light of their brilliance. Each member of this team has failed, and should be called on the carpet for it as much as any other member. That includes Andre. With that, I'm not saying trade him. he is talented. I don't hate him. I want him to stay. I just want him and the rest of the team to be accountable also.

Goldeagle
12-02-2006, 10:35 AM
Carr struggles to get the ball downfield YET, Andre Johnson is 3rd in the NFL in yardage. Perhaps this argument is over your head?

And WHO gets Andre the ball?

Who could not get open Vs. the Jets?

Who drops 2-3 passes a game?

JDizzle
12-02-2006, 10:57 AM
The dropping is an issue with AJ just as it is with guys like TO and Steve Smith, but if you watch these guys play you cannot deny their playmaking ability and how valuable they are to their teams. Take AJ off this team and multiply how bad we are x 10. He will probably go to the pro bowl this year playing for one of the worst teams in the NFL. That alone speaks volumes about his play. AJ is big time whereas Carr is the Betamax Video player of the Texans .... pimped heavily, ton of potential, but fell flat on his face when push came to shove.

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2006, 11:00 AM
The dropping is an issue with AJ just as it is with guys like TO and Steve Smith, but if you watch these guys play you cannot deny their playmaking ability and how valuable they are to their teams. Take AJ off this team and multiply how bad we are x 10. He will probably go to the pro bowl this year playing for one of the worst teams in the NFL. That alone speaks volumes about his play. AJ is big time whereas Carr is the Betamax Video player of the Texans .... pimped heavily, ton of potential, but fell flat on his face when push came to shove.

I am not a AJ hater, but I just have not seen the playmaking ability that I expected from him, specifically around YAC. I can handle the drops if he could shake guys ala TO and Smith and go the distance. This is one place where I do agree with the pro Carr crowd in AJ's perceived value.

Goldeagle
12-02-2006, 01:22 PM
I dont think anyone is an AJ hater, but its time to CALL OUT everyone, not just Carr!

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2006, 01:27 PM
I dont think anyone is an AJ hater, but its time to CALL OUT everyone, not just Carr!

I am indeed confused on why it is time to call out everyone. Calling out 5 year folks like Carr, McKinney, Pitts, Stanley and Brown make sense to me. They are the survivors from a past regime that did not know squat. In my opinion there may be two starters there for only half of the teams in the NFL.

I certainly hope that only Carr and Pitts are the only ones of that lot back next year.

Goldeagle
12-02-2006, 01:32 PM
I think its frustration, like me starting this topic because I AM tired of AJ dropping routine passes that elites dont drop.

But you are right to be confused, its a new system and (I hate to say it) like we are starting over and so far, I like how the team plays, I like the new GM and there is light at the end of the tunnel

Double Barrel
12-02-2006, 01:34 PM
Andre Johnson is an elite player and he is constantly surrounded because teams know Carr locks into him. Once we get an offense that makes teams pay for cheating extra help to him on a regular basis, he is going to be a mega-star. Until then we only have a Pro Bowler that gets the bejabbers pounded out of him because he catches most of his passes underneath the linebacker drops.

Hey, bro', how long do you see AJ putting up with this team if they can't pull their heads out of their collective losing rears? He's a quiet dude, and the epitome of class. You don't hear much from him at all. What concerns me, though, is what lies beneath that calm demeanor, because you know he realizes that his talent could be used on better teams to help take them to the promise land.

The more and more we lose, the more pressure that is put on the next season to succeed. And unfortunately, this is not a team that performs well under pressure. I hope with all my being that we're not turning into the Cardinals of this new millenium.

run-david-run
12-02-2006, 01:52 PM
I am not a AJ hater, but I just have not seen the playmaking ability that I expected from him, specifically around YAC. I can handle the drops if he could shake guys ala TO and Smith and go the distance. This is one place where I do agree with the pro Carr crowd in AJ's perceived value.

#1 in the NFL in yards after the catch

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2006, 01:55 PM
#1 in the NFL in yards after the catch

I tend to look at averages rather than the result due to volume. I would bet that his average YAC per catch is not that good amongst other #1's, especially those in a WCO style offense. But I could be wrong.

dtran04
12-02-2006, 01:57 PM
Didn't Kubiak call out the WR's on not making plays? The whole WCO is based on WR making big gains on YAC. Against the Jets, there was none of that.

TexansSeminole
12-02-2006, 02:04 PM
Sure he makes plays, but he also drops balls that hit him in the hands and I have seen two cornerbacks take balls out of his hands this season. You know, you say he is such an elite WR and such a playmaker, there has to be a QB throwing the ball to him to give him those opportunities right?

Ever think he just isn't playing with much interest anymore? How many games has he won since he joined the league? Not many. Doesn't seem to be that pumped up anymore...I'd say that this is part of the reason he is dropping balls.

He is obviously a great player, and has great hands. Every receiver has his drops, but AJ more so recently. He is kind of in a funk (when it comes to catching some of the easy balls). I think if our team was more competitive his drops would be well down.

Wolf
12-02-2006, 02:06 PM
that is randy moss's reason for dropping balls.

TexansSeminole
12-02-2006, 02:08 PM
Can't really blame him...not like he tries to drop them. If I was on a team that lost as many games as this team has...I wouldn't be playing with as much confidence, interest, or enthusiasm.

Wolf
12-02-2006, 02:10 PM
all receivers drop balls, but when a TEAM in not talented enough to overcome mistakes , it complicates the situation.. like last week before half time...AJ dropped a ball that was in his hands and would have given us a field goal (at least and if brown makes it). Points on offense are hard to comeby so this magnifies the situation..

run-david-run
12-02-2006, 02:11 PM
Didn't Kubiak call out the WR's on not making plays? The whole WCO is based on WR making big gains on YAC. Against the Jets, there was none of that.

How do you expect them to make plays? Its simple math: most of the time, we run some version of the I formation with 2 WR's, 1 TE, 1 RB and 1 FB. We usualy have at least 6 blockers, the RB goes into the flat or a 3 yard curl in the middle of the field. This leaves AJ, Moulds and OD running actual routes against 7 defenders. Almost all of the routes are curls, crossing routes or slants, meaning they are caught in front of the D. That leaves our WR's with about 4 tackles to break in order to "make a big play". Until we open up the offense and take some chances, we are going to continue to have those 10 play, 5 minute drives that end at the 35 yard line.

Wolf
12-02-2006, 02:14 PM
How do you expect them to make plays? Its simple math: most of the time, we run some version of the I formation with 2 WR's, 1 TE, 1 RB and 1 FB. We usualy have at least 6 blockers, the RB goes into the flat or a 3 yard curl in the middle of the field. This leaves AJ, Moulds and OD running actual routes against 7 defenders. Almost all of the routes are curls, crossing routes or slants, meaning they are caught in front of the D. That leaves our WR's with about 4 tackles to break in order to "make a big play". Until we open up the offense and take some chances, we are going to continue to have those 10 play, 5 minute drives that end at the 35 yard line.

good post.. and the problem with those 10 play 5 minute drives is our OL can't hold up (consistantly (due to injuries)) and teams know that their defense can bend but don't break against us because we can't make them pay

TexansSeminole
12-02-2006, 02:16 PM
all receivers drop balls, but when a TEAM in not talented enough to overcome mistakes , it complicates the situation.. like last week before half time...AJ dropped a ball that was in his hands and would have given us a field goal (at least and if brown makes it). Points on offense are hard to comeby so this magnifies the situation..

It really shows how losses are compounded. The more you lose...the more of a chance you will lose the next week.

Wolf
12-02-2006, 02:19 PM
It really shows how losses are compounded. The more you lose...the more of a chance you will lose the next week.

very true and Kubiak (as he has quoted in the past) has a tough job to instill a winning attitude esp since we really haven't had one yet
Got find our swagger or Mojo (like on battle red day)

texan279
12-02-2006, 03:34 PM
#1 in the NFL in yards after the catch

#9 in the NFL in yards after catch...

texan279
12-02-2006, 03:42 PM
Ever think he just isn't playing with much interest anymore? How many games has he won since he joined the league? Not many. Doesn't seem to be that pumped up anymore...I'd say that this is part of the reason he is dropping balls.

He is obviously a great player, and has great hands. Every receiver has his drops, but AJ more so recently. He is kind of in a funk (when it comes to catching some of the easy balls). I think if our team was more competitive his drops would be well down.

He is the highest paid player on the team, he is making almost 8 mil this season, he better be interested.

DFAN
12-02-2006, 04:10 PM
How many does this guy drop every week? Dropped the quick slant, then drops the deeper pass in the CLUTCH situation.

Wonder if Kubiak will openly comment on his butterfingers?

Then again, Im sure its Carrs fault for putting the pass right in his numbers and hands.

He has 7 drops on the year. Not sure if anyone answered your questioned or not.http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/league/passesdropped.html

dtran04
12-02-2006, 06:22 PM
From Kubiak's mouth:

(on what more he feels the receivers need to do) “Well, I don’t know. You sit there and you have two players that catch ten balls. You know, we have to get down the field better. We have to come off the ball better. That’s something that I think we can improve on. You know, I think being a good receiver in this league is being able to take little plays and make them big plays. I think we can make people miss better. Take more responsibility as far as run after the catch. You know, you’re always on receivers to do a better job in the run game, but, hey, that’s strength of our team. And I tell those…and I tell (WR) Andre (Johnson) and I look at that group and I say, you know what, if we have to go to a group to make plays for us to win, week-in and week-out you all should feel like that group. So I’m not going to let them be average, and I’m on them today. They did some good things, but they can play a lot better than they played. And they know that as a group. And they’ve got to play really well for us. If you look at the games we won, Andre (Johnson) made some special plays in those games. You look at the Miami and Jacksonville , some of the plays he made in those games. And when we don’t make those plays, we struggle. I just need him to make more of them.”

Take it however you want it. I'm sure people can spin it however they want but I'm just throwing it out there.

audibles
12-03-2006, 10:49 AM
Re: title of this thread...

I'm sick of seeing people call out AJ when he's the least of our problems. Do any of you really believe we would have a better W-L if he wasn't dropping all of these balls? Bah.

run-david-run
12-03-2006, 11:14 AM
#9 in the NFL in yards after catch...

hmm, took people's word for it, didnt acctually look it up...goes to show ya. :tearup:

Goldeagle
12-03-2006, 03:25 PM
Re: title of this thread...

I'm sick of seeing people call out AJ when he's the least of our problems. Do any of you really believe we would have a better W-L if he wasn't dropping all of these balls? Bah.



Yes

MrMeToo
12-03-2006, 03:45 PM
Re: title of this thread...

I'm sick of seeing people call out AJ when he's the least of our problems. Do any of you really believe we would have a better W-L if he wasn't dropping all of these balls? Bah.

I think we would have a better W-L if Carr wasn't our QB.

FanZilla
12-03-2006, 05:26 PM
How many does this guy drop every week? Dropped the quick slant, then drops the deeper pass in the CLUTCH situation.

Wonder if Kubiak will openly comment on his butterfingers?

Then again, Im sure its Carrs fault for putting the pass right in his numbers and hands.

Well atleast when AJ drops the ball it is not run back for a TD like when carr drops the ball.

Quit wasting your time, CARR SUCKS!