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View Full Version : What's Your Reasons For KEEPING Carr?? [:-o>


Luv_ya_blue
11-25-2006, 05:58 PM
Ok, I know that there are TONS of both "Carr Haters" & "Carr Homers" out there right now. To be honest, I think that Carr is a descent QB...not terrible, but certainly not terrific. I'm NOT sure if he'll ever get out from under the mountain of sacks that have "defined" his career as long as he's a Texan. Sometimes a change of scenary really IS beneficial. I've been a pretty outspoken hater of DC...and still not really fond of him. But THAT is another thread.

I'm sure that much the same as the religious threads in the NSZ, this one won't take long to get off topic.

I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE ANOTHER
"Battle of the Haters and Homers" thread.

We ALL know that the fans don't have a say whether or not a player is kept or traded...so...

Here's my question:
Why do you think that we should KEEP David Carr?
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_33_7.gif
[Please leave Sage out of this...as he really has NO bearing on this thread]

NEROtheZERO
11-25-2006, 06:03 PM
I think we should keep Carr because he is the least of our problems. While he is no Brady or Manning he is efficient. We have much more glaring needs at the moment and Carr has done nothing to lose his job. We could use upgrades on the DL, at OLB, in the secondary, on the OL, in the backfield, at kicker, and at punter. A guy completing 70% of his pases is the last thing we should be worried about.

If the Brunnells and Delhommes can take their teams to the SB so can David Carr. Now I am not against upgrading at the QB position in the future, but until we get the rest of the team up to par, David Carr will suffice.

Goatcheese
11-25-2006, 06:04 PM
Why do you think that we should KEEP David Carr?


Just to annoy all the Carr Haters(TM) on this board. What other reason do they need?

texan279
11-25-2006, 06:29 PM
Ok, I know that there are TONS of both "Carr Haters" & "Carr Homers" out there right now. To be honest, I think that Carr is a descent QB...not terrible, but certainly not terrific. I'm NOT sure if he'll ever get out from under the mountain of sacks that have "defined" his career as long as he's a Texan. Sometimes a change of scenary really IS beneficial. I've been a pretty outspoken hater of DC...and still not really fond of him. But THAT is another thread.

I'm sure that much the same as the religious threads in the NSZ, this one won't take long to get off topic.

I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE ANOTHER
"Battle of the Haters and Homers" thread.

We ALL know that the fans don't have a say whether or not a player is kept or traded...so...

Here's my question:
Why do you think that we should KEEP David Carr?
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_33_7.gif
[Please leave Sage out of this...as he really has NO bearing on this thread]

My reasoning is because IMO we have seen some improvement from Carr and the team as a whole in the first half of the season compared to the last few seasons. I didn't expect for Kubiak to come in here and make Carr look like Montana over night. I said in the offseason I would give Carr 1-1/2 seasons to see some improvement.

dtran04
11-25-2006, 06:33 PM
Without Carr, the message board would be DEAD. So I say we keep him. :)

texflex513
11-25-2006, 06:35 PM
I for one have supported carr from the start and its hard not to let doubt creep in every now and then but seeing what he has done this season under coach k i cant help but imagine how good he will be in the next year or 2. The deprogramming has begun and i believe kubiak can turn him around so my main reason would be i believe in our coaches ability to teach him.

texan279
11-25-2006, 06:37 PM
good post 279
But do you think Carr will ever be HOF material?
No Hate! Just an honest question.

Actually I am considered a Carr homer or apologist around here. HOF'er, not sure about that, I think he can and will become a solid, consistent, capable starter for us though, hopefully anyway. If not oh well I guess we will have to go another direction at QB.

Wolf
11-25-2006, 06:37 PM
I don't think he will be HOF material, if he does, it would be stuff legends are made of because the TEAM was not set and lots of change has gone on over the years, we have basically rebuilt AGAIN.

Carr I dont' know if he would have been HOF material anyway coming out of college, but then again.. who knows.

sleepwalker
11-25-2006, 07:08 PM
He's got a hot wife.

On a more serious note, who could we really get that's better?

noxiousdog
11-25-2006, 07:47 PM
Bottom line is that there are simply more needs than a QB. Effectively every defensive position with the exception of one end, MLB, and one corner. You also need an RB and possible right side linemen, depending on whether winston can hold it down.

If a quality QB came available in free agency, it would be worth a look, but until you have that person secured, there's no point in ditching Carr. And I'm not sure the 'definitively better than Carr' list is all that long... once you get outside of guys that are Manning, Brady, McNabb class.

ensign_lee
11-25-2006, 11:19 PM
Because this team has more glaring needs than QB right now.

Until we fix other, bigger holes (and this is all on the assumption that QB is a hole, which I have not necessarily said is true), we should not worry about fixing OTHER, smaller holes.

TexanSam
11-25-2006, 11:23 PM
Like other's said, Carr isn't one of our biggest problems this season. Under Kubiak I have also seen improvement. It doesn't help that he didn't have a running game for about half the games this season and he's not a terrible quarterback. And who are we going to get that's better? If we draft a rookie QB, we're taking a step back. I truly believe Carr can lead us to a Super Bowl. He's not a Carson Palmer type QB, but he's not a Ryan Leaf type either. I think Carr can be a Trent Green type QB. I think he's better than Chad Pennington. It's not Carr's fault he didn't have weapons around him for 4 years. Next year, Carr will show what he's got. In Kubiak I trust!!

TexansLucky13
11-26-2006, 12:07 AM
Just to annoy all the Carr Haters(TM) on this board. What other reason do they need?

Excellent post.

NATHANHALE
11-26-2006, 01:49 AM
JMO, but maybe the 'picture' becomes clearer if we look at the Texans without David Carr. If David is gone tomorrow, what would we miss most about him? What are those 'things' Carr does on the field that would be the toughest to replace with another player? Or, looking at adifferent 'spin', what part of the Texans game would get worse?

What affect would Carr's absence have on our offensive play? More or less passing tds/sacks/short passes/long passes/wins and losses/running game/TOP/etc.

...or, without question, what would get worse based on his performance now-not his 'potential' some where down the road that may or may not ever happen?

IMO, there is not 'much' to lose with the notion of life without David Carr for the Texans. His results are so marginal on the field they would be easy to replace and-quite frankly-might improve very quickly.

From day one of the Texans until now, David's entire 'prophecy' has been his potential to lead us to the 'promised land.' It has been assummed that-at some point in time- Carr would possess all the experience/wisdom/physical skills/mental 'karma', etc,to lead the Texans to the next level of winner...but, as we all know, not only has that not happened yet --there is no time table when it may or may not happen.

Bottom line is simple-worse,same, or better? If gone tomorrow, what does Carr do on the field that would be the toughest to replace? Anything? A lot of things?

swtbound07
11-26-2006, 01:52 AM
The ONLY reason we should keep DC is because none of the quarterbacks in this draft class are particularly appealing. I think a Kubiak offense would function better with a mobile, scrambling quarterback rather than a pocket passer. Im not in love with troy smith or brady quinn, and I really think our 1st rounder should be spent on LaRon Landry. Next year......

HJam72
11-26-2006, 02:16 AM
Because this team has more glaring needs than QB right now.

Until we fix other, bigger holes (and this is all on the assumption that QB is a hole, which I have not necessarily said is true), we should not worry about fixing OTHER, smaller holes.

So, now we know what kind of a hole Carr is. :ok:

Please_Evolve
11-26-2006, 02:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ONLY reason we should keep DC is because none of the quarterbacks in this draft class are particularly appealing. I think a Kubiak offense would function better with a mobile, scrambling quarterback rather than a pocket passer. Im not in love with troy smith or brady quinn, and I really think our 1st rounder should be spent on LaRon Landry. Next year......

You know that in the past what 3-4 years there's only like 3 Qbs with more rushing yards then Carr right?.....

The guy has a great arm, tough, doesn't throw a lot of picks, and has experience. I always find it funny that it's called the ultimate team game but when it comes down it it the first and second people blamed for losses in a season are coaches and quarterbacks.

Then i wanted to ask those in favor of getting rid of Carr..... let's take a a look at the rest of the league starting Qbs aside from Manning, McNabb, Brady and Palmer. Name one you like.

Harrington perhaps? Kitna? Alex Smith? Lohsman? Frye? Brooks? Would you have put everything into Culpepper's knee or Brees shoulder off surgery? Full confidence in Rivers even though he's been on the bench for years. Or Draft another QB and throw him into the fire. There's also a reason why people like Sage Rosenfels end up career backups...which isn't taht bad really but not starting material. Just food for thought.

Landry ....or Nelson from Florida looks good too.

HJam72
11-26-2006, 02:22 AM
The following scenarios are possible:

1. To win without a QB as your leader.

2. To win without a player as your leader.

3. To just do your freaking job and not even need a leader.

4. David Carr is already a leader and this team just sucks.

5. How 'bout we figure out why every team in the NFL used to run a cover 2 on us and now runs a cover 3 deep? How 'bout we figure out what to do about it? I bet it ain't havin' Carr throw deep into coverage.

HJam72
11-26-2006, 02:25 AM
Oh, my favorite reason for keeping Carr is:

drum-rolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll:



TO PISS YOU OFF!!! :yahoo:

swtbound07
11-26-2006, 02:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ONLY reason we should keep DC is because none of the quarterbacks in this draft class are particularly appealing. I think a Kubiak offense would function better with a mobile, scrambling quarterback rather than a pocket passer. Im not in love with troy smith or brady quinn, and I really think our 1st rounder should be spent on LaRon Landry. Next year......

You know that in the past what 3-4 years there's only like 3 Qbs with more rushing yards then Carr right?.....

The guy has a great arm, tough, doesn't throw a lot of picks, and has experience. I always find it funny that it's called the ultimate team game but when it comes down it it the first and second people blamed for losses in a season are coaches and quarterbacks.

Then i wanted to ask those in favor of getting rid of Carr..... let'stakea a look at the rest of the league starting Qbs aside from Manning, McNabb, Brady and Palmer. Name one you like.
Harrington perhaps? Kitna? Alex Smith? Lohsman? Frye? Brooks? Would you have put everything into Culpepper's knee or Brees shoulder off surgery? full confidence in Rivers even though he's been on the bench for years. Jsut food for thought.

Landry ....or Nelson from Florida looks good too.

I'll give you 10 I like more than Carr.

1) Michael Vick
2) Vince Young
3) Chris Simms
4) Drew Brees
5) Phillip Rivers
6) Steve Mcnair
7) Brett Favre
8) Trent Green
9) Jake Plummer (A heavy refllection on my feelings towards Carr)
10) Jason Campbell

I would rather have ALL of those over Carr.

J-Storm
11-26-2006, 03:17 AM
I think the Texans organisation as a whole (that includes us fans) have 8,000,000 reasons invested in Carr to keep him around. You don't pay $$$ like that unless you think it's worth it, now we just have to see how the organisation uses the rest of it's cap space to help keep Carr here (and make him as well as the team a success)...

NATHANHALE
11-26-2006, 04:26 AM
The ONLY reason we should keep DC is because none of the quarterbacks in this draft class are particularly appealing. I think a Kubiak offense would function better with a mobile, scrambling quarterback rather than a pocket passer. Im not in love with troy smith or brady quinn, and I really think our 1st rounder should be spent on LaRon Landry. Next year......

Carr has always been a pocket passer and didn't start running till he got to the pros to avoid the rush--ck his stats at FS, netted 67 yds rushing his SR year, while passing for 4000 yds...

Kubiak has used Carr very little to throw on the move--where are the throwing on the roll-outs we heard about? Kubiak was asked why he didn't even use Carr in the "shot gun' and his answer was that Carr functions better in th pocket...and his problems there are well 'documented.'

Too, it would help Carr to minimize his passes that are knocked' down if he were more effective being mobile but he's not--if he was, wouldn't we see some plays--ala the Denver system--designed for David...?

Napa Auto Parts
11-26-2006, 04:46 AM
I'll give you 10 I like more than Carr.

1) Michael Vick
2) Vince Young
3) Chris Simms
4) Drew Brees
5) Phillip Rivers
6) Steve Mcnair
7) Brett Favre
8) Trent Green
9) Jake Plummer (A heavy refllection on my feelings towards Carr)
10) Jason Campbell

I would rather have ALL of those over Carr.

ill give you some more

which should be number 1
11. tony romo
12. rex grossman
13. eli manning
14.ben roethlisberger
15. jake delhomme
16. jp lossman
17.damon huard
18. alex smith
19 joey harrington


wow thats alot of qb's that look better than david hopefully david can really improve he really looks bad right know.

aj.
11-26-2006, 04:48 AM
I think the Texans organisation as a whole (that includes us fans) have 8,000,000 reasons invested in Carr to keep him around. You don't pay $$$ like that unless you think it's worth it, now we just have to see how the organisation uses the rest of it's cap space to help keep Carr here (and make him as well as the team a success)...

Carr had already been paid $21.75 million in signing bonus and salary before he was given the $8 million signing bonus in early '06. He is also making $5.5 million in base salary this year for a five year haul of at least $35.25 million. The base value of the remaining two years on his contract is $11.25 million.

DeclanJr
11-26-2006, 07:20 AM
So that we can keep getting top draft picks every year. We win at least two more games without Carr in there and are talking about wild card possibilities. As it stands we are in the running for a top 5 pick every year!!!:yahoo:

AndreRulz
11-26-2006, 07:32 AM
I have no idea, but he is faster then sage.

After the season we should get one of the following:
1. Brett Favre
2. Jake Plummer
3. Mark Brunell
4. Kurt Warner(Maybe)
5. Chris Simms
6. Bryon Leftwich
7. Aaron Brooks

brewhaus
11-26-2006, 08:38 AM
We need David Carr, for a few more years.....like, until his current contract expires. There are too many other needs to address on this team right now to be worried about a QB, or wasting a draft pick or more money on one. :twocents:

PsychoLove
11-26-2006, 09:55 AM
There is zero reasons to keep Carr (Unless you still think his win over Boise State means anything.) He has over 70 starts and is getting paid close to 8 million to be a second rate QB.

But every team will have more than half their fans digging up excuses to keep them. I had to suffer with how great Jeff Garcia was when he actually was horrible. Now, they have Alex Smith going into the HOF already and think he is better than Peyton Manning.

I can to conclusion that most of these "Homer" fans have bought jerseys or some memorabilia and don't want to see their money go to waste............:yikes:

TexansLucky13
11-26-2006, 09:59 AM
Intelligent debate on the topic of David Carr is not possible. At this point you are either a homer, a hater, or apathetic. The result of each David Carr thread is the same.

thunderkyss
11-26-2006, 10:04 AM
Why do you think that we should KEEP David Carr?
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_33_7.gif
[Please leave Sage out of this...as he really has NO bearing on this thread][/CENTER]

I trust Kubiak knows what he's doing. I understand David is playing much better than he did last season. If David is our starting QB come September, I'd have to believe he is right where CoachK thinks he should be.

I think it is the right thing to do. After what David has gone through here in Houston. A little part of me is proud of the Texans for doing the right thing.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
11-26-2006, 10:21 AM
Intelligent debate on the topic of David Carr is not possible. At this point you are either a homer, a hater, or apathetic. The result of each David Carr thread is the same.

I must have "man-love" for DC.:deadhorse

hobie
11-26-2006, 10:25 AM
I am neither a Carr "homer" or "hater", but David is not the QB that will end up leading this team to bigger and better things. For some of you who think he needs time to learn under Kubiak, well that is true, but David is who he is, he can only learn so much before he ends up doing what he has done all his life, that's just the way it is. He can be a little bit better, but not too much better as he has been in the league long enough that if he hasn't raised his game by now, most likely it will not happen.
Now for the haters, David is not all that bad and yes, the Texans could have a better QB, but for sure they could have a worse one. Look at all of the QB's the Saints have had over the years until they got Brees, the Raiders are still looking for someone, anyone to get the ball into the endzone, Arizona has Leinart, and he isn't doing to well either. So, that goes to show you even a Heisman winner on a bad team is not the answer. Sure, they might be able to make it a bit better, but Leinart doesn't go from a winning QB at USC with a Heisman to a 2nd rate QB over night.
That just goes to show you that you NEED an O-line to make it in this game, without one, even a good QB won't last. So, for the time being, David should stay, as he knows the system better than anyone at this time. In the offseason, go after O-line FA or continue to work making last seasons 2 O-line draft picks into a cohesive group with a FA pick or 2 and get them into a good O-line. Let's get them up to speed where they know what the other guy will do without having to think what if's. Then once that happens, which in all reality should only take about 1 more season, then David will be at the end of his contract and then reevaluate if he is the QB to lead the team.
Regardless, David is a part of the problem, and David is also not the scapegoat either, he's just not going to get that much better, so complaining that he needs to go or stay is just not going to matter, what needs to be done is complain about the line. Just remember, David is as durable as ANY QB in the game today, as I don't think there is any QB that could take the beating week in and out like David does and still suit up and play, well maybe Favre in his youth.So, if he did get injured the team would then have to make a change, maybe it would be the right thing, maybe not.

AndreRulz
11-26-2006, 10:31 AM
lets go get brett favre after the season.

and

david carr is not that bad, he is not as bad as:

jeff george
andrew walter
vinny testaverte
matt cassell
most backup QBs

Kaiser Toro
11-26-2006, 10:35 AM
Because he is in the first of a three year contract and cutting him after this year will be an expensive cap hit.

noxiousdog
11-26-2006, 10:39 AM
ill give you some more

which should be number 1
11. tony romo
12. rex grossman
13. eli manning
14.ben roethlisberger
15. jake delhomme
16. jp lossman
17.damon huard
18. alex smith
19 joey harrington


wow thats alot of qb's that look better than david hopefully david can really improve he really looks bad right know.

I'm guessing your list of good quarterbacks changes a lot year to year. This isn't fantasy football where you get to draft your team every year.

aj.
11-26-2006, 11:07 AM
Because he is in the first of a three year contract and cutting him after this year will be an expensive cap hit.

They aren't going to cut him prior to next season but they have taken on similar and even more burdensome dead money hits in the past, eg. Walker, Wade, Smith...

Carr would cost somewhere around $5 million on the cap if he was cut prior to next season while he will cost somewhere around $7.3 to keep.

Plus, there's a couple of different rules where they could spread the dead money over two years if that's what they really wanted to do. So while it's cap noticeable, it's certainly not cap prohibitive.

Napa Auto Parts
11-26-2006, 11:38 AM
I'll give you 10 I like more than Carr.

1) Michael Vick
2) Vince Young
3) Chris Simms
4) Drew Brees
5) Phillip Rivers
6) Steve Mcnair
7) Brett Favre
8) Trent Green
9) Jake Plummer (A heavy refllection on my feelings towards Carr)
10) Jason Campbell

I would rather have ALL of those over Carr.

I'm guessing your list of good quarterbacks changes a lot year to year. This isn't fantasy football where you get to draft your team every year.

Long pause............................................. .................................................. ........................

Not!!!!!! fantasy just the hope that some day we night have a QB that can win on a regular basis in the NFL. the fantasy thing i tried it once never really like it:yahoo:

trutexan02
11-26-2006, 11:55 AM
Ok, I know that there are TONS of both "Carr Haters" & "Carr Homers" out there right now. To be honest, I think that Carr is a descent QB...not terrible, but certainly not terrific. I'm NOT sure if he'll ever get out from under the mountain of sacks that have "defined" his career as long as he's a Texan. Sometimes a change of scenary really IS beneficial. I've been a pretty outspoken hater of DC...and still not really fond of him. But THAT is another thread.

I'm sure that much the same as the religious threads in the NSZ, this one won't take long to get off topic.

I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE ANOTHER
"Battle of the Haters and Homers" thread.

We ALL know that the fans don't have a say whether or not a player is kept or traded...so...

Here's my question:
Why do you think that we should KEEP David Carr?
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_33_7.gif
[Please leave Sage out of this...as he really has NO bearing on this thread]
I think we should for the same reason every Lions fan is moaning and groaning. Who wants to see the QB theyt drafted go on and do great thignsfor another team. Ex: Harrington in Miami.

Wolf
11-26-2006, 11:58 AM
why should we keep Carr?

I think he will get even better under Kubiak's direction after another offseason. Esp if we can go through a season with our OL healthy and iintact.

bigcarlos
11-26-2006, 12:12 PM
He has a contract with HEB:poker:

wolfscar
11-26-2006, 12:30 PM
Carr's tough to read right now, because of how he's been handled by the previous regime (ie. they did just about everything they could to ruin him completely). What I find most promising about Carr right now is how highly Kubiak regards him. He's shown that he's willing to drop people if they don't fit his vision for this team and he is behind DC 100%. And this guy knows quarterbacks.

Apart from that, Carr has shown marked improvement in many areas this year - he's getting the fundamentals right more than he has in the past and he does have a big arm and quick feet if he can learn to use them to his best advantage. What he needs is good coaching and that's what he's finally getting. He could also have done with a couple of years to learn behind a good experienced QB before being thrust into the starter spot (look at what Romo's doing after getting precisely that) but he didn't get that and we just have to work with what we have here and now.

He's not perfect, by any means. He has several areas that definitely need to be improved, but Kubiak sees a lot of potential in him as a player and as a leader and I think (and hope) that he's chosen the right person to place that faith in. He's not going to suddenly become the best QB in the NFL, but he's already in the upper half IMO - and rising. He probably won't ever be HOF, but he could certainly rise to being top 5 in the league in 2-3 years' time. He's a talented Work in Progress right now, for me. :twocents: