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Wolf
11-23-2006, 09:17 PM
no matter what he needs to be traded. he is not the greatest QB and never will be, but this board is relentless and will he will never satisfy them in any way.. Mr McNair please trade him

Honoring Earl 34
11-23-2006, 09:19 PM
I have a better plan ... Troy Smith measures just 6 ft and drops into the 2nd rd and we draft him .

Wolf
11-23-2006, 09:22 PM
I have a better plan ... Troy Smith measures just 6 ft and drops into the 2nd rd and we draft him .

why? sage can do a better job?

Bubbajwp
11-23-2006, 09:24 PM
Owen Daniels could throw the ball to himself.

Imagine all of the Fantasy Football points.

El Tejano
11-23-2006, 09:26 PM
why? sage can do a better job?

Because at least you are showing that you are willing to go in another direction very soon. You give a guy like Troy Smith to adapt unlike the way David was thrown to the wolves.

If David isn't doing anything more speacial, then now you got this kid who can play.

Honoring Earl 34
11-23-2006, 09:27 PM
Yeah what Tejano said . LVB hows the chili going ?

Runner
11-23-2006, 09:28 PM
I just posted this on another thread but it fits better here. Carr may need to change team for his own good, not for the Texans.

The fact may be that like Harrington, Carr will have to leave this team and go somewhere else to:

a) reach his potential
b) leave controversy behind

Even if he goes to another team and excels, it wouldn't mean he would ever had done so here. Team attitude, pressure he puts on himself here as "face of the franchise", the players around him - changing all of these might be what he needs to reach his potential.

In truth, leaving the Texans for another team isn't the worst fate a player could suffer.

Wolf
11-23-2006, 09:29 PM
y'all want a different direction.. who? sage? is he better?
on a different thread, who could he not beat out with the redskins and dolphins

Honoring Earl 34
11-23-2006, 09:40 PM
Oh I won't start making it until Monday or so, next week.
:cool:

To stay on topic I like Kevin Kolb in the right round .

Once it cools down a bit I might make me some chile using the Wic Fowlers as a base but cooking a sirloin and some tomatoes and onions over a fire and then add them to said chile .

Wharton
11-23-2006, 09:41 PM
no matter what he needs to be traded. he is not the greatest QB and never will be, but this board is relentless and will he will never satisfy them in any way.. Mr McNair please trade himYou’re probably right.

In posts some of my posts at the beginning of the season, I said I'd get off DC's back and for the most part, I've kept my word. But, I sorry, I'm not seeing the type of improvement I want from either him or this team. I was watching Sean Salisbury on Mike & Mike this morning and one of things he said in general about football made a lot of sense to me. According to Sean, as goes the QB for most teams so goes the team.

With that, I decided to start my anti-Carr propaganda again. While I admit I have seen some good things from DC this season, his play has been inconsistent. Still, just as last year, the best thing anyone can say about DC is “He has a lot of potential”. Well having a lot of potential doesn’t cut it anymore. It’s time to try new things. While it may not be fair in many folk’s, one of the first positions you make changes to turn around a football team is QB. The time to change this position is now!

Let’s take a look at Sage to see if he's got the right stuff. Just as Carr deserved more then one game to prove himself, Sage deserves the same respect. Put Sage in now. Let him play the rest of the season. If he doesn't play well, lets get someone in here who has the right stuff.

TexanFan881
11-23-2006, 09:43 PM
If you want to go through more rebuilding, trade Carr. If you want to start winning, keep Carr. It's simple enough, just wait until next year. We should be 5-5 or 6-4 now, and none of the loses we should've won were because of Carr.

Wolf
11-23-2006, 09:48 PM
what does sage have that carr doesn't? he has been in this league what 5 years ? and hasn't cracked the starting lineup in 5 years, what? Head coach hate him? offensive coordinater hate him?
what?

Wharton
11-23-2006, 09:51 PM
If you want to go through more rebuilding, trade Carr. If you want to start winning, keep Carr. It's simple enough, just wait until next year. We should be 5-5 or 6-4 now, and none of the loses we should've won were because of Carr.The Saints traded thier crappy QB and got a good one. Now they are doing a lot better. There is no evidence that keeping Carr is going to shorten our building/rebuilding. Keeping Carr may even prolong the process. At this point what is giving Sage a shot at the starting position going to hurt?

Honoring Earl 34
11-23-2006, 09:51 PM
I guess this is something that you see or don't see . Vinny has said Carr lacks the IT thing for years ... I started scratching my head last year at the Denver pre-season game .

TexanFan881
11-23-2006, 09:59 PM
The Saints traded thier crappy QB and got a good one. Now they are doing a lot better. There is no evidence that keeping Carr is going to shorten our building/rebuilding. Keeping Carr may even prolong the process. At this point what is giving Sage a shot at the starting position going to hurt?

I think we just disagree on the part that "David Carr is bad".

TexanFan881
11-23-2006, 10:03 PM
You're all saying that Jameel Cook's fumble against the Giants was David's fault? Are you all saying that a defensive collapse and allowing two 83 yard TD's is Davd's fault? Is it David's fault Jameel fumbled it in the redzone at the end of the second half against the Bills? I just think everyone's looking for one thing to be the problem and it's easiest to blame the QB. It's a ton of little things: the running game, the drops on offense, the defense not being able to play a full great game. We've got a new set of coaches, and a total remake of our franchise, and it's not all going to come instantly. If we start playing like we did at the beginning of the year then yes, we need a new QB, but over the last month and a half this team has made huge strides and we're on our way to being a pretty good team in the next couple years.

Wolf
11-23-2006, 10:12 PM
lol

Wharton
11-23-2006, 10:13 PM
];508426']wood glue + wolf = bad posts :yahoo:lol:


I don't think anyone is saying its all Carr's fault, but I will say when Mark Brunell ripped off 22 strait completions, he threw at least one TD and the Redskins scored 4 offensive TDs.

Hmmm, I forget, how many TD passes did Carr have against Bills? Did we win that game?

I must be getting senile in my old age.

Wolf
11-23-2006, 10:15 PM
Carr (who I think is solid and not spectacular) is doomed by who drafted him, he will never be great so get rid of him and save the money and spend it on impact players

mexican_texan
11-23-2006, 10:17 PM
I'm no fan of Carr...but I'm not sure what we can get for him in a trade. I'm hearing Mike Vick wants a trade as well. Not saying I want him, just saying that teams will have choices as to which QB to trade for. Kubiak is a genius and I'll support whoever he thinks fits best at QB, even Carr.

mexican_texan
11-23-2006, 10:21 PM
Scary thought...Kubiak is likely to bring in Plummer, just as he brought in Putz and the cloud of fat with a beard.

TexanFan881
11-23-2006, 10:25 PM
Scary thought...Kubiak is likely to bring in Plummer, just as he brought in Putz and the cloud of fat with a beard.

Plummer is atleast 10 times worse than Carr. Sage is better than Plummer.

NATHANHALE
11-23-2006, 10:29 PM
You're all saying that Jameel Cook's fumble against the Giants was David's fault? Are you all saying that a defensive collapse and allowing two 83 yard TD's is Davd's fault? Is it David's fault Jameel fumbled it in the redzone at the end of the second half against the Bills? I just think everyone's looking for one thing to be the problem and it's easiest to blame the QB. It's a ton of little things: the running game, the drops on offense, the defense not being able to play a full great game. We've got a new set of coaches, and a total remake of our franchise, and it's not all going to come instantly. If we start playing like we did at the beginning of the year then yes, we need a new QB, but over the last month and a half this team has made huge strides and we're on our way to being a pretty good team in the next couple years.

...and just what strides have we made offensively besides designing a simplified offense to inflate Carr's stats? We've made ZERO strides in the most important area--scoring points--so,please, enlighten me.

Hookem Horns
11-23-2006, 10:29 PM
David Carr in 2006
10 games...
285 attempts
198 completions
69.5 % completion rate (career high)
1896 yds passing (only had 2000 in the entire `03 season)
6.65 YPA
9 TD's (only had 9 td's in both `02 & `03)
6 Int's (15, 13, 14, 11 in `02-`05)
89.5 passer rating (career high)

Already got a 166 yds rushing (151 in entire `02 season)
2 rushing td's w/12 first downs

11 fumbles in 10 games w/5 lost
(02-21, 03-4, 04-10, 05-17)
================================================== =

Carr's numbers, although not exactly banner, aren't terrible this year. He is on pace to set career highs in a couple of different areas.

:twocents:



You forgot his 3-7 number.

mexican_texan
11-23-2006, 10:38 PM
I'm just saying...not all of AJ's TDs came from Carr.

texflex513
11-23-2006, 10:40 PM
Houston Texans = David Carr...Carr for president!!!! and he is better than both Chad Stanley and Kris Brown!!!! Carr :homer: x 100,000,000,00.

NJTexanFan
11-23-2006, 10:42 PM
Yea i want us to get rid of Carr so he can come back and throw all over the texans like joey harrington did today

Honoring Earl 34
11-23-2006, 10:44 PM
Not if we play the cover 2 and Mario swats at the ball as he stands there .

mexican_texan
11-23-2006, 10:44 PM
Yea i want us to get rid of Carr so he can come back and throw all over the texans like joey harrington did today
...and I KNOW that will happen.

NJTexanFan
11-23-2006, 10:47 PM
yea me too sometimes i feel Carr is too good for this team because all the fans do is bash him no matter what he does he sets a record and still the bashing continues maybe we should trade him and have a quarterback like Vince Young whos doing terrible this year i mean compare Carr and Young rookie year and most of this MB wanted Young

Ole Miss Texan
11-23-2006, 10:55 PM
Carr (who I think is solid and not spectacular) is doomed by who drafted him, he will never be great so get rid of him and save the money and spend it on impact players

I see your point...He may do better somewhere else..just like I think if we drafted reggie bush he would have been wasted...not a good fit for our team. (how did i turn this into a RB thread my bad!!!)

David Carr in 2006
10 games...
285 attempts
198 completions
69.5 % completion rate (career high)
1896 yds passing (only had 2000 in the entire `03 season)
6.65 YPA
9 TD's (only had 9 td's in both `02 & `03)
6 Int's (15, 13, 14, 11 in `02-`05)
89.5 passer rating (career high)

Already got a 166 yds rushing (151 in entire `02 season)
2 rushing td's w/12 first downs

11 fumbles in 10 games w/5 lost
(02-21, 03-4, 04-10, 05-17)
================================================== =

Carr's numbers, although not exactly banner, aren't terrible this year. He is on pace to set career highs in a couple of different areas.

:twocents:



Just as long as he doesn't break his sack recordS!!!

Owen Daniels could throw the ball to himself.

Imagine all of the Fantasy Football points.

lol, funniest thing i've read on here. but very true. that would help me out tremendously as well!

Honoring Earl 34
11-23-2006, 10:59 PM
There was a player named Johnny Blood who did just that . He thought it helped his immunity system .

Hulk75
11-23-2006, 11:17 PM
Here lets just let the Carr haters think what they want, you guys are right, he sucks, he is bad, he is here for who knows why! 7 million dollars play better! Make you feel better?

But then he is still the starter, and Kubiak is liking what Carr is doing, In a heart beat if Kubiak did not think Carr was our future QB and leading this team and doing everything he can do he WOULD NOT be playing right now, If Sage or another guy could do better or is better, the other guy would be playing, I believe that with all my heart, guys around Carr need to step up, and that is the truth, believe what you want but it was not Carr fumbling on the 10 going in and it was not Carr after he busted to the 10 and then get called back for holding............I garunteeeeee that Andre got a tongue lashing from Kubiak about the deep ball on sunday that was INT-ed, call me crazy but I think thats what happened.:spy:

Wharton
11-23-2006, 11:31 PM
yep, another "its not Carr's fault" posting.

So when exactly is it Carr's fault?

I guess it was George Bush's fault that Carr threw 22 strait completions without a TD. Yep, Carr can really fling that 1 yard stop route.

Hmmmm, Donuts. Hmmmm, Carrrrrrr.:homer:

Wharton
11-23-2006, 11:45 PM
This has to be the most retarded statement I've ever heard. George Bush? WTF? Pretty dumb analogy. You can have great stats and not win the game. Drew Brees threw for more than 500 yards, yet they still lost. But they didn't lose because Brees threw for 500 yards. To say Carr lost us the game, is rediculous.My name is Quasimodo!

Of course it’s ridiculous, it was meant to be ridiculous.

And anyone saying Carr is doing a good job as a QB is saying something ridiculous too.

sleepwalker
11-23-2006, 11:49 PM
fantastic idea.....lets trade carr, andre, owen, mario, demico, dunta and build a whole new team so we can talk all day about how we can't win in these forums.

Honoring Earl 34
11-23-2006, 11:51 PM
We'll trade them for the Chargers .

Specnatz
11-24-2006, 03:00 AM
Its never CARR's fault!!! Its the offensive line fault!!!!He brought this team two championship AFC titles and he went to the pro bowl!!!! .......no wait that was Warren Moon!!!! ......nevermind!!!!

:joker:

(lol compare Warren Moon to David Carr.)

My god I hate this statement!! Anyone with half a brain is not saying Carris without fault. Maybe if you stop trying to mate with bevo you would understand that some are saying look at the whole team not just hate on the QB. But I guess he is supposed to do everything and just will is all you need to be successful in this league.

VY just has the willingness to win. He has the it factor. Yeah and Tom Brady did not have the it factor coming out of college or he would not have fallen to the 6th round. I guess we should ignore the line the receivers dropping passes or fumbling them away or the kicker missing field goals or the punter giving a short field.

IT IS A TEAM SPORT, or maybe I am just making that up??

Might as well bring in Kurt warner then because he has a super bowl ring and he has done so well the last few years.

The Pencil Neck
11-24-2006, 09:27 AM
I've thought the same thing.
Nobody thought that Romo could tote the load for Bledsoe either.



I gotta disagree with this. People here in Dallas were calling for Romo to start before the season even started. Parcells said some things at a press conference or two that led several of the local reporters to conclude that Parcells thought Romo was the better QB even before pre-season.

The movement to get Romo to start up here was pretty big.

The Pencil Neck
11-24-2006, 09:40 AM
Personally, I don't care if Kubiak decides to go with Carr or to go in another direction. Doesn't make any difference to me. Right now, Carr has his warts and he has his good points. I trust Kubiak to do what it takes to win and part of that is choosing the right personnel. I've already seen improvement in the team's performance from last year so I think we're on the right track. If the future is with or without Carr is irrelevant to me.

I'm just a fan and I'll cheer whoever is on the field in a Texan's uniform.

But if we're not a competitive team by next year, it will be time to start wondering if Kubiak is the right answer. Not Carr or Sage or Porter or Plummer or whoever's playing QB.

texan767
11-24-2006, 09:45 AM
You're all saying that Jameel Cook's fumble against the Giants was David's fault? Are you all saying that a defensive collapse and allowing two 83 yard TD's is Davd's fault? Is it David's fault Jameel fumbled it in the redzone at the end of the second half against the Bills?

Yes.
Signed:
He-Man David Carr Haters Club
:sarcasm:

nunusguy
11-24-2006, 09:49 AM
For no other reason than to satisfy my own curiosity, I'd like to see Carr go
to another team that is, unlike the Texans, a contender. To the Bears maybe ? There are far more question marks about Grossman than Dave Carr, and if he screws the pooch in the playoffs for the Bears, wonder what they'd give up for David ?
But this thing here in Houston is so complicated with Carr, with the owner, and now with the new HC and his committment to make Carr a success.
Powerful egos involved, reputations, etc.
I dunno, but if they decide "not" to go with David after this year, I just hope
they don't make any big investments in a young QB again anytime in the near future. Lets concentrate on getting talent for other areas, especiallly the OLine, to a competitive level.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
11-24-2006, 09:49 AM
...and just what strides have we made offensively besides designing a simplified offense to inflate Carr's stats? We've made ZERO strides in the most important area--scoring points--so,please, enlighten me.

If you think this offense is simplified, you weren't paying too much attention to the one Dom Capers was running. Carr has made huge strides this year, and (i believe) will continue to throughout this season. The Texans will be much better next season if they don't make any major changes (like bringing in a new quarterback).

No coach was going to come in here and: put in a completely new scheme; bring in a whole new philosophy; tell the quarterback that everything he has learned the last 4 years is wrong (which it was); turn over half the starters and put lots of rookies in their steads; find out he wouldn't have his best option at running back available all year long; play one of the toughest schedules in the NFL; and then win as many games, in a stylish fashion, as some of you apparently think the Texans should have by now.

This isn't baseball where FA and some clever trades can turn you from a pretender to a contender overnight. In the NFL these things take time. The rare exception is the cowboy team that went 1-15 and then went to the Superbowl, but they got the "godfather" deal from Minnesota that no one will ever see again. They already had a qb that had been coached by the same staff, under the same system for three years.

Things will turn around. Patience is a virtue. I know 5 years is a long time to lose, but this incarnation of the Texans have only been together for a short time.:rant:

ThaShark316
11-24-2006, 10:03 AM
Some people say cucumbers taste better pickled.........

DeclanJr
11-24-2006, 10:34 AM
Now there is a really HORRIBLE idea. Troy Smith will be nothing in the NFL as a QB.


I think that Kevin Kolb or Troy Smith would be a step up...just my opinion. I don't know if we will be in position to draft either though. Anyone but Brady Quinn...the guy is way overrated.

Runner
11-24-2006, 10:35 AM
If you think this offense is simplified, you weren't paying too much attention to the one Dom Capers was running.

This year's offense being more complicated than last year's doesn't mean much. It is still pretty simple.

kingh99
11-24-2006, 10:53 AM
I have a better plan ... Troy Smith measures just 6 ft and drops into the 2nd rd and we draft him .

Right game, wrong QB. Best QB in the OSU Michigan game? Chad Henne. The Michigan QB Chad Henne is going to be the NFL star. My opinion of course but I am rarely wrong :). I watched the guy for the first time that game and immediately got it. He has a rifle arm and his first instinct isn't to run away but rather step up. That's what I want in my QB. Someone who can step up, both in the pocket and in his game when it counts.

Honoring Earl 34
11-24-2006, 10:57 AM
Henne could throw a strawberry threw the side of a battleship thats for sure .

Runner
11-24-2006, 11:00 AM
Right game, wrong QB. Best QB in the OSU Michigan game? Chad Henne. The Michigan QB Chad Henne is going to be the NFL star. My opinion of course but I am rarely wrong :). I watched the guy for the first time that game and immediately got it. He has a rifle arm and his first instinct isn't to run away but rather step up. That's what I want in my QB. Someone who can step up, both in the pocket and in his game when it counts.

I know this violates the "if A is good, B is bad" theorem, but they are both pretty good QBs. I was impressed with Smith's accuracy and patience in the pocket. He is not a run first (or even second) QB - that has been proven all season.

kingh99
11-24-2006, 11:06 AM
You're all saying that Jameel Cook's fumble against the Giants was David's fault? In about 4 total qtrs of play in both the pre-season and regular season, DC's backup has clearly run circle around DC in the area of downfield vision and throwing accuracy. The opposing team gameplans to keep Carr throwing dinks and dunks between the 20's because they don't fear his red zone. He is too content to settle and dump. That's fine as long as he also possessed the out route accuracy and arm strength downfield. Clearly he does NOT. Elway did. Heck even Jake Plummer does. Are you all saying that a defensive collapse and allowing two 83 yard TD's is Davd's fault? DC doesn't get enough out of the offense. He doesn't put the ball in the endzone with his arm often enough. Is it David's fault Jameel fumbled it in the redzone at the end of the second half against the Bills? DC takes too long to score. You have to be able to show patience and be able to set up the downfield play. DC can't get into the endzone easily ever. Sometimes you need a gimme. Other than the Owen Daniels catch, none really. His backup mixed in some home run plays with great efficiency in the times he has been allowed to move the ball (when we aren't running out the clock). The reason we have a non-winner today is simple. Read my signature.

kingh99
11-24-2006, 11:08 AM
Henne could throw a strawberry threw the side of a battleship thats for sure .

Strong armed but not that accurate yet. Was Aikman real accurate in college? Elway. I guess both were bigger.

Honoring Earl 34
11-24-2006, 11:10 AM
I think he was ... thats always been his strong suit .

Mattheus_Rex
11-24-2006, 11:20 AM
Stick with Carr. We're not going to be able to trade for anything better really, so why give up stuff for the same with a different name. There is no quick fix for the team so everyone just has to be patient.

kingh99
11-24-2006, 11:23 AM
I think he was ... thats always been his strong suit .

Aikman is a good comparison to Chad Henne. I always wanted a traditional team and I guess that makes the Texans not my team since Kubiak wants to control scramble on offense. I think the 93-95 Cowboys were the prototypical pro team especially on offense. Wear you down with the run and bomb with extreme accuracy. From what I've seen of Rosenfelds, he throws intermediate to deep pretty well. I guess I've given up trying to understand what they are seeing.

devo-x
11-24-2006, 11:40 AM
There's an inconsistency between Kubiak's support of Carr and the offensive line (his teammates) not believing that he's not the leader to take the Texans to the next level

:hides:

Double Barrel
11-24-2006, 11:46 AM
Carr is a good QB, but he's not clutch. We'll need a dominant defense to protect slim leads, simply because Carr does not appear to be a QB that can seal the deal when the game is on the line.

Last week's 3rd and 2 call is all on Carr and AJ, and our two no. 1 picks just couldn't get it done for a 2 yard pass.

The great QBs don't care what happened earlier in the game. History is irrelevant when a game is on the line. The great ones step up, complete the little pass, and win the game. It is quite obvious at this juncture that Carr is not that kind of QB. So we'll need a dominant defense to seal the deal if he stays our QB, IMO.

I’m not a Carr ‘hater’ or ‘homer’. I just call it like I see it. And after last week’s failed 3rd and 2, my eyes are wide open to the reality of the players we have on our team. They are not winners at this point.

thunderkyss
11-24-2006, 12:10 PM
I’m not a Carr ‘hater’ or ‘homer’. I just call it like I see it. And after last week’s failed 3rd and 2, my eyes are wide open to the reality of the players we have on our team. They are not winners at this point.

It just drives me crazy when we are 2nd & 16, and our QB throws a 4 yard dump off. Or it's 3rd & 13, and our QB throws a 5 yard out.... It's understandable to take that dump off every now and then, and hope that AJ or Owen makes a play.... they get paid too.. But with the consistency we've seen that, it makes me believe the QB is saying, "Somebody needs to make a play..... & it's not going to be me."

Sure, he breaks contain, and picks up a lot of those on his own, running the ball. & that is fine.... I don't particularly like that kind of play from a QB(he gets paid too much money, and is going to end up getting himself hurt...... I say that whether his name is VinceYoung, David Carr, or Drew Bledsoe)

I do not agree with this thread........ that David Carr needs to be traded.

I do a gree that since we gave him $8 million, we are treating this situation as if the last 4 years did not happen. In that situation, he is progressing fine.

He has not had the benefit to sit on the bench, and learn what works, what doesn't, what he should be seeing, and what he shouldn't try to do like Phillip Rivers has.

He has not had true vets to learn from like Vinny testeverde, or Drew Bledsoe like Tony Romo has.....

He has not had the benefit of not getting sacked 208 times, and hit a countless number more times, like Brad Gradkowski, Vince Young, or Jay Cutler....

at the same time, he has played against real NFL defenses where those guys have not. He should be more familiar with the speed of the game(which he hasn't shown) & the complications of NFL defenses(which he has not shown)

I had hoped that the lightbulb would have gone on in his head 2 or three games ago. Now, I'm thinking it won't happen till next year....... hopefully in the preseason.

Texan Asylum
11-24-2006, 12:26 PM
Carr is a good QB, but he's not clutch. We'll need a dominant defense to protect slim leads, simply because Carr does not appear to be a QB that can seal the deal when the game is on the line.

Last week's 3rd and 2 call is all on Carr and AJ, and our two no. 1 picks just couldn't get it done for a 2 yard pass.

The great QBs don't care what happened earlier in the game. History is irrelevant when a game is on the line. The great ones step up, complete the little pass, and win the game. It is quite obvious at this juncture that Carr is not that kind of QB. So we'll need a dominant defense to seal the deal if he stays our QB, IMO.

I’m not a Carr ‘hater’ or ‘homer’. I just call it like I see it. And after last week’s failed 3rd and 2, my eyes are wide open to the reality of the players we have on our team. They are not winners at this point.
I would say that this is the most accurate assessment of Carr's abilities I've read. I'm a Carr fan, but wonder sometimes if he's the one that'll take us to the next level...where ever that may be.

Honoring Earl 34
11-24-2006, 12:31 PM
So TK I take it your willing to give Carr another year .

I see it as I bought a stock for 30$ its now at 20$ ... it was 10$ last year . Do you say you know I could sell and invest elsewhere and a year from now be up 5$ a share or do I ride it out with the thought that you don't lose until you sell .

I'm ready to get out of the car business figuring with Kubiak a new QB with out the baggage will pay higher dividends .

Honoring Earl 34
11-24-2006, 01:28 PM
Its always better to trade a year early as opposed to a year late .

NATHANHALE
11-24-2006, 01:30 PM
There are several things that bother me about the 'entire. Carr situation. First, in 4+ yrs on the field/starting over 60 games, what has Carr done that makes Kubiak believe he is the 'answer?' We know he has seldom used the arm strength that posters give him credit for? We know he does not have a vertical passing game--instead, we know he is a 'dink and dunk' passer his entire career. Sure, one of the WCO main ingredient is short safe passes that produce good YAC but-also-this offense depends on frequent throws down the field.

How many times has Carr 'aired' it out and thrown the ball 60+ yds down the field?...ever?...maybe a couple of times?

We know Carr's 'pocket management' is horrible and contributes greatly to his protection/passing issues. How many times have you seen Carr step up in the pocket to avoid the rush--while looking down field--and find the open receiver...not very often. We know Carr's decision making skills are very weak, as he has a difficult time reading the defense to determine where he should throw the ball--often, he either a) tucks the ball and runs or b) dumps the ball off or c) he throws into 'multiple' coverage. Finally, this year, he is cutting back on sacks that are his fault.

We know Carr has a 'fragile mindset and-for me-this is a bad trait for a QB. Kubiak has simplified his offense to build Carr's confidence by increasing some of his stats but-in Carr's 4+ yrs-no emphasis has been put on scoring points..

JMO, but the Carr :homer: 's never talk/give examples of David's play/results on the field on a consistent basis that back their 'claim' he's the .man. Instead, you do 2 things---1) make excuses for Carr or 2) bash posters that don't drink the 'kool-aid.'

Believe me, anyone who has monitored this board for 'just' a week, knows (by heart) all the excuses. One poster (no name) mentions these excuses almost every day--sometimes more than once.

I'm not talking potential here, either--what has Carr done on the field (more than once) that makes you believe he can (along with his team mates) get us to the SB?:yahoo: :redtowel:

WildBlackBear32
11-24-2006, 01:34 PM
Carr is a good QB, but he's not clutch. We'll need a dominant defense to protect slim leads, simply because Carr does not appear to be a QB that can seal the deal when the game is on the line.

Are we watching the same player?

Carr's fourth quarter stats...

121 QB rating
6:1 TD:INT Ratio
72% Completion percentage.



Carr when the Texans are ahead or tied...

90.2 QB Rating
5:3 TD:INT Ratio
68.5% completion percentage


The only real gripe I have with him in the clutch is his ability to hold onto the ball.

Double Barrel
11-24-2006, 01:53 PM
Are we watching the same player?

Carr's fourth quarter stats...

121 QB rating
6:1 TD:INT Ratio
72% Completion percentage.



Carr when the Texans are ahead or tied...

90.2 QB Rating
5:3 TD:INT Ratio
68.5% completion percentage


The only real gripe I have with him in the clutch is his ability to hold onto the ball.

As I said in my previous post, I'm not talking about stats. Show me CLUTCH plays, where the game is on the line and our QB is required to make the play to win the game or even seal the deal for a win. Anyone watching this season understands that a lot of Carr's 4th qtr. stats are against prevent defenses when we've already been blown out of the game.

I'm talking the difference between the great QBs and merely good QBs: clutch play is what it comes down to. The 3rd and 2 last week is a prime example. If that had been a completed pass - between two number one picks I might add - we would have won the game.

I'm not saying trade Carr or keep Carr. I'm just saying that if we do keep him, then we will need a dominant defense to seal the deal in those close games, because our QB can't make the plays when it counts the most. History speaks for itself, and my take is absolutely void of any emotion towards the guy, good or bad. I just want our football team to win games.

NATHANHALE
11-24-2006, 02:00 PM
Are we watching the same player?

Carr's fourth quarter stats...

121 QB rating
6:1 TD:INT Ratio
72% Completion percentage.



Carr when the Texans are ahead or tied...

90.2 QB Rating
5:3 TD:INT Ratio
68.5% completion percentage


The only real gripe I have with him in the clutch is his ability to hold onto the ball.

...let's expand your 4th qtr stats a little--Carr has thrown 6 tds in the 4th qtr, with 3 against the Colts, meaning he threw only 3 in the other 9 4th qtrs--4 TDs were in garbage time against the Eagles and Colts.

...so, in the first 3 qtrs of our 10 games (30 qtrs), David has thrown 3 tds..

Expectations. Sorry, but yours are too low for me....

WWJD
11-24-2006, 02:37 PM
David's not going anywhere. Didn't he just sign some huge extension last offseason?

They had a chance to go in a different direction last offseason and went with Carr.

New_Texans
11-24-2006, 03:44 PM
Who would take his place?


Sage Rosefels....................................you have to be kidding me. Hes not Tony Romo number 2 plus he hasnt sat behind Drew Bledsoe so he cant have the Tomy Brady-Romoitus that infected two other qbs.

I cant stand Carr haters...typical Monday Morning QB and couch patato football watcher fans that dont know what they are watching.


Past 2 games Carr has played well, however play calling was why they lost against the Bills guys not Carr.


Next year this team will be good with Carr not without him. If you say 'i dont want to wait til next year' then you need to stop watching sports all together.

Goldeagle
11-24-2006, 03:45 PM
no matter what he needs to be traded. he is not the greatest QB and never will be, but this board is relentless and will he will never satisfy them in any way.. Mr McNair please trade him

Probably a minority of people blame Carr for every loss, they make Houston fan look like fools.

MrMeToo
11-24-2006, 03:55 PM
People who think Carr is better than Plummer are on crack! Plummers stats are ten fold better than Carr!!!! I think Carr is a much improved QB but the dump off crap is getting old! I want to see someone with the arm strength that scares the crap out of a D.. Carr does not scare anyone on any play.. Look around the League, the only impressed with Carr are the Homers on this MB!!! NFL network was talking about how lame the 22 comp were because they were 22 passes for 160yrd with no TD

I think the city as a majority is tired of David Carr and his 8 million against the boks. We cut Bear in the preseason because of his contract and he had way more potential than Carr!!!

I agree...

thunderkyss
11-24-2006, 03:59 PM
So TK I take it your willing to give Carr another year .

I see it as I bought a stock for 30$ its now at 20$ ... it was 10$ last year . Do you say you know I could sell and invest elsewhere and a year from now be up 5$ a share or do I ride it out with the thought that you don't lose until you sell .

I'm ready to get out of the car business figuring with Kubiak a new QB with out the baggage will pay higher dividends .

NO..... not at all. I've come to realize this is the path Kubiak has chosen.

If I were making the calls, I wouldn't invest the time, much less the money.

But I'm not making the decision, so let's hope for the best.

Honoring Earl 34
11-24-2006, 04:11 PM
NO..... not at all. I've come to realize this is the path Kubiak has chosen.

If I were making the calls, I wouldn't invest the time, much less the money.

But I'm not making the decision, so let's hope for the best.

My feeling is Kubiak took an average guy in Plummer ( who had a history of bringing his team back at ASU and taking to many risk in Arizona ) and making him into a borderline pro-bowler . Jake the Snake has always been a gamer and thats what gets him into trouble ... Brett Favre without the arm . Kubiak leaves and Jake crumbles , maybe Kubiak is that good .

I feel that if you let Kubiak hand pick his guy he can make into a great QB . I feel McNair wanted Carr to be part of the package and thats going to haunt us for years . Unless of course Troy Smith drops into the 2nd rd cause he's short and we pick him .

thunderkyss
11-24-2006, 04:13 PM
How many times has Carr 'aired' it out and thrown the ball 60+ yds down the field?...ever?...maybe a couple of times?
:yahoo: :redtowel:

IN all fairness, a 60+ yard pass is extremely rare and I doubt I've ever seen one.

If you've got a fast reciever, he can run 40 yards in a little more than 4 seconds. It would take him 5 to 6 seconds to get down the field. That rarely happens..... even the worse pass rush do not allow 5 seconds for a play to develope.

There are plenty of plays that have gone 60+ yards... usually, the QB throws a ball 15 to 20 yards in the air. Because there is no one in front of the reciever, the play turns into a 60+ yard play(or an 83 yard TD( or two)).

you saw the two big DanteStallworth plays in the Philly game?? our recievers rarely get that wide open. There was the AJ touchdown on our first drive of the 'Skins game.....

But the two LeeEvans TDs...... our recievers are in that situation often, but David hasn't shown the ability to put the ball where it needs to be. Had he been the Buffalo QB, that ball would have hit Faggins in the back of the helmet. As seen on the plays when Molds & AJ were in the same position in that game...... or in the Washington Game, where David underthrew AJ twice, for what would have been sure touchdowns, or when he underthrew Walter..... I believe it was that same game...... in the endzone, and the ball was picked off.

threetoedpete
11-24-2006, 08:44 PM
I have a better plan ... Troy Smith measures just 6 ft and drops into the 2nd rd and we draft him .

I knew this was coming. Just can't believe this is you Earl ? This is the wife right ?

Who was the last 6' or under QB to win a conference championship ? It ain't Flutie. Gonna have to go back aways there Earl's wife.

threetoedpete
11-24-2006, 09:03 PM
People who think Carr is better than Plummer are on crack! Plummers stats are ten fold better than Carr!!!! I think Carr is a much improved QB but the dump off crap is getting old! I want to see someone with the arm strength that scares the crap out of a D.. Carr does not scare anyone on any play.. Look around the League, the only impressed with Carr are the Homers on this MB!!! NFL network was talking about how lame the 22 comp were because they were 22 passes for 160yrd with no TD

I think the city as a majority is tired of David Carr and his 8 million against the boks. We cut Bear in the preseason because of his contract and he had way more potential than Carr!!!

Well my partner you just my well get your wish. Don't be a stranger when he crashes and burns. And a lot of aren't tired of Carr, we're tired of the Carr bashing. The highest round this organsation picked an o-lineman is the third with Pitts, Wand, Spencer and Winston. Spencer and Winston should be out of the equation because they are rooks. Wand was a total bust. I believe Winston was supposed to sit and watch and learn this year. I do not know this for a fact but that is what I believe. And Wand is the the bell cow on why it is not better to go tramping for o-lineman late in the draft.
Someone had all the bust and near misses this organazation has had on the o-line the last five years. It is a very long list. And that is the problem. Makes you happy to bash Carr go right ahead and help yourself. But ask yourself this one question, in five years, which o-lineman for the club went to the probowl ? Was an all pro ? You wanna be lazy and be blissfully ignorant, fine by me. The improvement behind this line under these circumstances tells me Carr will be back next year. McNair is not going to admit defeat untill someone shovels dirt in Carr's face. After the '08 season, he probably bite the bullet and eat the contract. MHO is not befor then. My book says the oods of Carr surviving the rest of the season behind this group of o-lineman is not very good. Big difference in 8 and sixteen million. Carr gets reamed real good, McNair could buy him out. Then everyone can be happy again. If there is any justice in the world I hope you get to live life under Jake the Snake. I could stand the season...not to sure you're going to enjoy it though.

Honoring Earl 34
11-24-2006, 11:43 PM
I'm not such a big Smith fan nearly as much as I see the possibility of it happening ( dropping cause of height ) . Having said that there is some allure to what I feel is the QB for the best team .

The Pencil Neck
11-25-2006, 02:09 AM
I'm not such a big Smith fan nearly as much as I see the possibility of it happening ( dropping cause of height ) . Having said that there is some allure to what I feel is the QB for the best team .


Tom Brady... Kurt Warner... Damon Huard... Tony Romo...

Who needs to waste a high draft pick on a QB?

:chicken:

QB75
11-25-2006, 08:21 AM
I have a better plan ... Troy Smith measures just 6 ft and drops into the 2nd rd and we draft him .

TROY SMITH? Please.... I hope that you are joking.

Honoring Earl 34
11-25-2006, 09:33 AM
You want to bet ... I say Troy is gone in the first round .

thunderkyss
11-25-2006, 11:46 AM
Well my partner you just my well get your wish. Don't be a stranger when he crashes and burns. And a lot of aren't tired of Carr, we're tired of the Carr bashing. The highest round this organsation picked an o-lineman is the third with Pitts, Wand, Spencer and Winston. Spencer and Winston should be out of the equation because they are rooks. Wand was a total bust. I believe Winston was supposed to sit and watch and learn this year. I do not know this for a fact but that is what I believe. And Wand is the the bell cow on why it is not better to go tramping for o-lineman late in the draft.
Someone had all the bust and near misses this organazation has had on the o-line the last five years. It is a very long list. And that is the problem. Makes you happy to bash Carr go right ahead and help yourself. But ask yourself this one question, in five years, which o-lineman for the club went to the probowl ? Was an all pro ? You wanna be lazy and be blissfully ignorant, fine by me. The improvement behind this line under these circumstances tells me Carr will be back next year. McNair is not going to admit defeat untill someone shovels dirt in Carr's face. After the '08 season, he probably bite the bullet and eat the contract. MHO is not befor then. My book says the oods of Carr surviving the rest of the season behind this group of o-lineman is not very good. Big difference in 8 and sixteen million. Carr gets reamed real good, McNair could buy him out. Then everyone can be happy again. If there is any justice in the world I hope you get to live life under Jake the Snake. I could stand the season...not to sure you're going to enjoy it though.

Bill Parcells has not drafted an Olineman high in the draft since he became the Cowboys Head Coach...... '03. None of the Olinemen he drafted are still on the team.... So it could be possible, that there haven't been any good OLinemen in the drafts since '03....... (I say this, because Bill usually does good in the draft).

Not one Cowboys OLineman will go to the probowl this year. They had given up more sacks than the Texans in the first 6 weeks of the season. At that time, there would be no argument that their Offensive line was worse than ours. But since they changed QBs...... they are now outperforming our line.

bigbrewster2000
11-25-2006, 11:49 AM
This is worth repeating.

Wow, I don't know why but it amazes me that we have to continue reading the same posts in the same threads 7 days a week for the last 5 years. Everyone rehashes the exact same comments from a similar thread. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same old banter......dang it I already answered my question. And whether all here like it or not Kubiak is going to stick with Carr. He apparently likes what he is seeing for the most part. Lets all look back to Kubiaks very first Presser when he said that this team had a long way to go. Personally, I don't care if everyone here is tired of hearing about patience, and that this is our 5th year and blah blah blah. The reality is that we were 2-14 last year for a reason. WE STUNK something fierce. This year we still stink, and next year we may just smell like we havent taken a bath that morning. But when it comes down to it, the team and David are better, and I see promise ut our coaching staff is new and they need more than 10 games or 1 season or even 2 seasons to get the personel that they need to make this team a winner. So I am not going to say anything esle except everyone needs to swallow the realistic pill and watch the coaching staff either make this team better or fall on their faces (again) over the next few seasons.

ArlingtonTexan
11-25-2006, 02:51 PM
This is worth repeating.

Wow, I don't know why but it amazes me that we have to continue reading the same posts in the same threads 7 days a week for the last 5 years. Everyone rehashes the exact same comments from a similar thread. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same old banter......dang it I already answered my question. And whether all here like it or not Kubiak is going to stick with Carr. He apparently likes what he is seeing for the most part.

Unfortunately, the organization has given the fan base little else to talk about.

bigbrewster2000
11-25-2006, 04:40 PM
Unfortunately, the organization has given the fan base little else to talk about.

Well you should comment on the entire post because it all goes together. That is another problem on this site, you read or see what you want and forget about the rest of the facts.

ArlingtonTexan
11-25-2006, 04:48 PM
Well you should comment on the entire post because it all goes together. That is another problem on this site, you read or see what you want and forget about the rest of the facts.

There are no facts in your post just an opinion that we should be a good little Texans' fans and hurry-up and wait some more.

sleepwalker
11-25-2006, 07:09 PM
We need to trade you.

Wolf
11-25-2006, 07:10 PM
We need to trade you.

you obviously are new here

Ibar_Harry
11-26-2006, 12:10 AM
Yes, I like Carr, but I would like to point out a couple of facts that people seem to be totaly oblivious to.

1) Carr is throwing short passes per Kubiak. That is the nature of Kubiak's offense. It has nothing to do with Carr's arm strength. Carr is throwing passes short of the receivers per Kubiak. He is taught to under throw, not over throw the receiver.

2) On the 3rd and 2 we now know that AJ was having injury problems. That has become apparent during the week and probably is part of what happened. Remember, its all about timing and where you are suppose to be. May be he couldn't shake his defender simply because he was no where near the 100% we thought. May be the defender wasn't as good as we thought.

For years I have been saying Carr has been doing exactly what he was taught and requested to do. He has been the company man and if you can't listen to what Kubiak says then continue to blow smoke. Does Carr have some bad habits, I'm certain he does. However, if you listen to Kubiak and reflect back to the 1st game Carr played as a Texan, you might see there has been a lot of regression. Why, you might say, because of how and what he was taught to do.

Finally, I noticed how Harrington - booed out of Detroit - returned the favor to Detroit. Is there something to be said about being on the wrong team at the wrong time. I think some of you might be very surprised at how well Carr would do in another situation. Oh, and by the way, I think Trent and David are business partners too.

NFLforher
11-26-2006, 12:40 AM
Yes, I like Carr, but I would like to point out a couple of facts that people seem to be totaly oblivious to.

1) Carr is throwing short passes per Kubiak. That is the nature of Kubiak's offense. It has nothing to do with Carr's arm strength. Carr is throwing passes short of the receivers per Kubiak. He is taught to under throw, not over throw the receiver.

2) On the 3rd and 2 we now know that AJ was having injury problems. That has become apparent during the week and probably is part of what happened. Remember, its all about timing and where you are suppose to be. May be he couldn't shake his defender simply because he was no where near the 100% we thought. May be the defender wasn't as good as we thought.

For years I have been saying Carr has been doing exactly what he was taught and requested to do. He has been the company man and if you can't listen to what Kubiak says then continue to blow smoke. Does Carr have some bad habits, I'm certain he does. However, if you listen to Kubiak and reflect back to the 1st game Carr played as a Texan, you might see there has been a lot of regression. Why, you might say, because of how and what he was taught to do.

Finally, I noticed how Harrington - booed out of Detroit - returned the favor to Detroit. Is there something to be said about being on the wrong team at the wrong time. I think some of you might be very surprised at how well Carr would do in another situation. Oh, and by the way, I think Trent and David are business partners too.


Trent and David have the same business manager.

Texans_Chick
11-26-2006, 08:40 AM
David Carr threads can cause damage to your brain and other semi-vital organs.

FYI, this is what yankee media is saying about Carr (with comparison quotes from Jets players):

Link: Hartford Currant (http://www.courant.com/sports/football/hc-jets1126.artnov26,0,7405781.story?coll=hc-headlines-football)

bigbrewster2000
11-26-2006, 11:54 AM
There are no facts in your post just an opinion that we should be a good little Texans' fans and hurry-up and wait some more.

No, again you are wrong and you read and say what you want because it says moderator under your picture. We were IN FACT 2-14 last year and we did IN FACT stink fiercely. And Kubiak in his very first presser said IN FACT that it would take time to turn this team aroud. So whether you want to choose to pay attention or not that this team was and still is IN FACT void of some talent is your perogative.

Honoring Earl 34
11-26-2006, 12:11 PM
Arlington Texan is one of the best posters this board has known ... if its his opinion its usually right .

Peldon
11-26-2006, 02:10 PM
Yep, that looks about rignt :brickwall

Hookem Horns
11-26-2006, 02:12 PM
Trade? How about released? No one will give anything for this guy. Man, he sucks.

MrMeToo
11-26-2006, 02:13 PM
Trade? How about released? No one will give anything for this guy. Man, he sucks.

I agree.

Honoring Earl 34
11-26-2006, 02:13 PM
Oh, stop... get a room

I like old guys like you .

AustinTexansFan
11-26-2006, 02:53 PM
Dear Coach, Please trade Carr and get rid of your problem. You can lead a horse to water but you CANNOT make him drink.:wild:

htsone
11-26-2006, 02:56 PM
I'm sure some team has a sack of horse dung they'd be willing to trade for DC...

hts

Bubbajwp
11-26-2006, 02:57 PM
First off there is already a thread about this why did you have to make a new one.

Second.

Carr and Kubes cant make the WR catch the ball either.

Or make the oline run block.

Or make the RB's break a tackle.

Or make our Defensive backs catch the ball.

All of this blameing everything on one person who ever its just stupid.

Seeing as how the only way we can move the ball in this game is by David Carr Running and throwing it. Ya we should definetly trade him. ok that makes sense.

I guess I can explain to you why your wrong but that doesnt mean you will understand it right.

AustinTexansFan
11-26-2006, 02:59 PM
Checkdowns is all I can say.

brewhaus
11-26-2006, 03:08 PM
First off there is already a thread about this why did you have to make a new one.

Second.

Carr and Kubes cant make the WR catch the ball either.

Or make the oline run block.

Or make the RB's break a tackle.

Or make our Defensive backs catch the ball.

All of this blameing everything on one person who ever its just stupid.

Seeing as how the only way we can move the ball in this game is by David Carr Running and throwing it. Ya we should definetly trade him. ok that makes sense.

I guess I can explain to you why your wrong but that doesnt mean you will understand it right.

Looks like they can't coach any of those things they can't make anyone do either.

ArlingtonTexan
11-26-2006, 03:52 PM
No, again you are wrong and you read and say what you want because it says moderator under your picture. We were IN FACT 2-14 last year and we did IN FACT stink fiercely. And Kubiak in his very first presser said IN FACT that it would take time to turn this team aroud. So whether you want to choose to pay attention or not that this team was and still is IN FACT void of some talent is your perogative.

Seriously, the only thing moderator means is that I get to delete posts that contain bad words in them. Those "facts" you post are only to support you real point (which is an opinion) that Texans fans need to fold thier hands and continue to be patient. Your original post and real point are not anything unique in that it has been said 100 different times in 100 different ways. I got your point, the first time.

edo783
11-26-2006, 03:54 PM
Checkdowns is all I can say.

Ever ask your self why? (don't give me that stat building crap, that is totally stupid) Might want to check how many guys are kept in to block on passing downs. Usually at least one and a great many times 2 extra guys to bock with. That means that the most we send down field is 2-3 guys. The defense then has 5-6 guys to cover 2-3 guys. Might be a tad hard to get open with that situation and hence the dump offs. The announcers even commented on the fact that no one is open down field and that is why the dumps. It would be nice to chuck it long and we do on occassion, but have you notice, the guy is alway double covered? That's because we have the guys back protecting, so the best chance we have is to sometimes chuck it up and pretty much hope that AJ can out jump/mucle the DB just to try and keep the DBs back a bit. The end result is that we have the coaches calling a game that fits what the defense is giving us, because the O-line isn't up to snuff. Not even close.